Applecare conundrum

August 17, 2005 7:41 AM

To Applecare or not to Applecare, that is the question! Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to purchase arms against a sea of troubles, and by purchasing, guarantee they will not occur [tired of this and can't remember any more]. G4 laptop. I understand why it is good, BUT, who here has purchased two more years for their laptop and used it in that period? What hardware works fine for one year and then goes kerblooey? It ain't cheap at $350, especially as I can fix most things on my own. I am not interested in resale value, only components that fail and that I will have to pay for myself without the extended warrantee.
posted by mzurer to computers & internet (45 comments total)

I know many Apple laptop owners and several Mac techs that swear by Applecare. The busted latch on my 17-month-old Powerbook suggests that I could have benefited from it myself.

However, I know from my days in electronics retail that extended service contracts are a huge profit center for the retailer. Ninety percent of buyers never use their programs, creating 100% margins for the seller. (A little Googling can tell you much more.)

If you're clumsy and/or expect to keep and heavily use your product for a while, you could consider it. I've never been able to justify it, though.
posted by werty at 7:47 AM on August 17, 2005

A couple of friends work for the Apple Store. They also swear by it, but then they may just be drinking the Kool-Aid.

Also, on a laptop, you probably can't fix most things. They're pretty tightly integrated. My friend has a bad power supply connection but that requires the replacement of the logic board, a $700 fix.
posted by srburns at 7:49 AM on August 17, 2005

My friend has had her G4 since Nov. and last month the screen died. She had AppleCare and they've fixed it for her free of charge (replaced the whole screen). It took almost 3 weeks though. She's the only one I know who has used it. I have it but haven't needed it (so far).
posted by LunaticFringe at 7:53 AM on August 17, 2005

I have.

My hard drive failed, 14 months into the ownership of my Powerbook. Completely replaced it, free of charge, since I also had the Applecare.

I recommend the Applecare.
posted by spinifex23 at 8:01 AM on August 17, 2005

I believe you can buy AppleCare up to a year after buying the item. That way you get a year of free support (if the product busts physically) and a year to save up for AppleCare (or decide if it's useful).

FWIW, I fixed an internal power cable issue in my iBook. Saved a lot of trouble. The power cables going between the chassis and the screen were getting pinched whenever you opened the screen and arced against the chassis! :)
posted by wackybrit at 8:02 AM on August 17, 2005

I understand why it is good, BUT, who here has purchased two more years for their laptop and used it in that period?

Me, last week, on my iBook. Hard drive failure, eighteen months on from buying it. Sent it out on Saturday, it was fixed on the Monday, and I got it back on Tuesday lunchtime. They sorted out the dodgy latch at the same time.

I talked about this when buying the iBook with a friend who used to edit a Mac magazine. His advice: 'Get AppleCare. Don't even think about not getting it.'
posted by holgate at 8:06 AM on August 17, 2005

I never buy extended warrantees, not even AppleCare. And, in general, I don't need them.

That said, I feel that Apple's quality is pretty shoddy:

• My iBook has a screen that is fritzy due to a "pinched wire" (according to the tech guy at the local Apple Store). This problem developed just outside the warrantee perioed.
• Two cords on iBook power adapters have frayed. The first one frayed within warrantee; the second did not. The damage occurred through normal usage.
• The battery on my first iPod is woefully inadequate. (This has been helped somewhat by the class-action suit, of course.)
• The battery on my iPod mini isn't much better.
• The fans in my g5 are noisy as hell, but they tell me there's nothing I can do.
• My AirPort Express was wonky from the start, and finally died just three days short of the warrantee's expiration. (Thank god I got it in to the Apple Store in time to be replaced for free.)
• I haven't had any problems with my PowerBook yet, but then it's just a few months old.

Apple makes some great products, and obviously I'm hooked, but after three years back in the fold, I'm wary of their quality. I've never had these sorts of problems with PCs. (Well, I had one PC laptop that gave me problems, but that was an off-brand cheapo thing and I kind of expected problems from it.)

So what am I saying? I haven't bought AppleCare in the past, but I have a feeling I may start to do so in the future. It sucks to have to pay for it (because it makes already expensive products even more expensive), but if Apple products are going to fail, I want some recourse.
posted by jdroth at 8:09 AM on August 17, 2005

'Get AppleCare. Don't even think about not getting it.'

Agreed. Worth every penny and very fast turnaround.
posted by anathema at 8:10 AM on August 17, 2005

To toss in a story that contradicts everyone else's, AppleCare isn't always necessary. I had a Powerbook G4 (550MHz) that still worked perfectly after two years of near-constant use. It was a little banged up, but still gets the job done. I sold it to a friend who replaced the hard drive (which failed a few months after) and had to replace the battery once, but other than that it continues to work well to this day.

I also just purchased AppleCare for my 1.5GHz Powerbook a couple days ago. Despite my good luck last time, I'm not taking any chances. If nothing else, I can almost guarantee I'll get at least a hard drive replacement out of it. With the temperatures this thing runs at, that sucker is going to get baked one of these days.
posted by mikeh at 8:23 AM on August 17, 2005

Or you could eBay/Craigslist your PowerBook in 12 months time and buy a new one at about the same cost as Applecare. Making a long term investment in computer equipment is daft.
posted by cillit bang at 8:25 AM on August 17, 2005

If you have a portable, yeah, AppleCare. If you have a desktop, not so much.

Alternatively, buy it on a Visa card that offers warranty extension and you'll get double the warranty for free. It won't be as convenient as AppleCare but, hey, what do you want for nothin', a rubber biscuit?

You might also check with your insurance agent to see about a personal articles policy (a.k.a. "inland floater" in genuine insurance industry gibberish) that'll cover theft and accidental damage of the machine, if you're worried more about that. Such policies are pretty affordable.

You may be offered a rider on your current homeowner's/renter's policy, but it is my understanding that you should try to get a separate policy, as claims on the rider will count as a claim against your homeowner's, and many insurers will jack up your rate or drop you entirely after just one or two claims. That's no biggie if it happens on your separate personal articles policy but it could be a big headache if it happens on your homeowner's.
posted by kindall at 8:29 AM on August 17, 2005

I always personally thought it wasn't necessary to extend. When one of my bosses got a call from Apple reminding him his one-year was about up and asking if he wanted to extend, he asked me what I thought - I shrugged and said I didn't really feel it was necessary. You know, Powerbooks are rugged, blah blah blah.

A week later, one of the office cats knocked his Powerbook off the desk, completely ruined the screen. He ended up having to buy a new one, as the repairs would've been prohibitively expensive.

Get the Applecare.
posted by Remy at 8:29 AM on August 17, 2005

I gotta come down in favor of Applecare for laptops as well. If you live near an Apple store, it's a little less neccessary, but I've used it on my purchased-in-2002 PowerBook 2 or 3 times. Once for a hard drive failure, once for general wonkiness (they ended up replacing damn-near-everything, and threw in a new display).
posted by sohcahtoa at 8:33 AM on August 17, 2005

Applecare at student rates is actually pretty modest, coming out to like $8-9/month. I got it for my ibook and it's unclear if it was necessary. I feel like it may have greased the Apple wheels when my ibook needed its second and third logic board replacements, even though those repairs are supposed to be covered even outside of the warranty. I found Applecare useful when I was in that weird post-90 day, pre-warranty expiration time where my laptop was under warranty but I didn't have a free phone support option so they'd discuss your issue with you on the phone, but if the problem wound up being your fault you had to pay for the call. If you get Applecare sometime after the first 90 days you get free phone support the whole time.
posted by jessamyn at 8:41 AM on August 17, 2005

My mother's eMac's motherboard died about 15 months after she purchased it. The repair estimate from Apple was around $550. Naturally, I could have gotten her a new one for not much more.

I won't own an Apple without Applecare any longer. I just have seen it one-too-many-times where something goes wrong just after the 1 year warranty.

Also, remember that even though you get a one year warranty with Apple products, you only get 90 days worth of phone support. Not only does Applecare extend the warranty of the hardware to 3 years, it also allows you 3 years of phone support.
posted by benjh at 8:48 AM on August 17, 2005

Also remember to check to see if your company offers discounts for Apple products. Many corporations have contracted prices with Apple and Employee Purchase Programs. These can reduce the cost on the Applecare.

Alternatively, find a college student to buy your stuff for you in exchange for a couple of six packs. Not only does it reduce the cost of the machine substantially, but Applecare Education price on a powerbook is $239.

I don't know if Apple checks criteria, but you could try store.apple.com and click on Educational Store, to check out those prices, and see if you qualify.
posted by benjh at 8:53 AM on August 17, 2005

I just had on site service for my 17" flatscreen iMac this very morning thanks to Applecare. My superdrive wasn't reading CDs, so it got replaced. With labor, I'm pretty sure my Applecare policy just paid for itself, especially taking in the convenience of not having to lug my machine onto the subway to get it to an authorized warranty repair place.
posted by ursus_comiter at 8:53 AM on August 17, 2005

I bought my PowerBook from a friend, and it had been just over a year--I couldn't buy Applecare because the year was up. They are sticklers on the dates. It would have been helpful since I made the switch from PC to Mac. I don't know where you live, but Applecare is not available in Florida. (There might be a couple more states). If you can get it at a student rate, it's a well worth it.
posted by 6:1 at 8:53 AM on August 17, 2005

My friend has had her G4 since Nov. and last month the screen died. She had AppleCare and they've fixed it for her free of charge

I should hope so, and she shouldn't have needed AppleCare, since the machine was still under warranty.

I agree with the general consensus here, however. If you plan to keep the PBook 2 years or longer, buy the AppleCare (which is also transferable when you sell, adding value, or it used to be). Don't count on it for a solution to your own clumsiness, however. If damage is obviously caused by abuse -- spilled coffee, dropping the book -- Apple might well not repair it for free. Personally, I don't usually buy it for my own laptops, but I replace them every year, or even sooner. But of course I don't pay for them. If I did, I'd keep them longer and seriously consider Applecare for laptops, certainly Powerbooks.

My own experiences with Apple warranty service have been nothing short of stellar. Most recently, my previous iBook had a major failure (the CPU) at about 6 months. Apple sent me an overnight kit the next day, held it a day, and within 2 days it was back with a new CPU. Everyone I know who's used Apple warranty service says similar things. Personally, I don't think Apple hardware is any more wonky than anything else, but major problems do get a lot of press (like the iPod batteries, or the logic boards on the first generation G4 iBooks). If there is a widespread hardware problem Apple tends to fix it even well out of warranty. My experiences with comparable problems with Dell and Sony PCs have been nowhere near as efficient, pleasant, or simply resolved.
posted by realcountrymusic at 9:05 AM on August 17, 2005

I have Apple Care extensions for two TiBooks. (Recommended by a trusted technician.) One has been to the shop once (motherboard) and the other has been twice (power issues). The $350 extension has more than paid for itself.

That said, we keep our Powerbooks for a long time -- much longer than others might. Each is well into it's fourth year of life.

I've never pruchased Apple Care for a tower. Did use the warranty once on a Powerbook-Apple Display connector though...
posted by Dick Paris at 9:32 AM on August 17, 2005

I always purchase AppleCare. I have used it several times. Every time, the service was fast, thorough, and friendly -- and the cost of repair may have exceeded what I spent on AppleCare.

I disagree with advice above that you should decide based on what you're buying. If you're spending the money on a PowerBook, you should cover your bases with the added expense of AppleCare; but even if you're only buying an iBook, the AppleCare cost may be offset by the fact that iBooks aren't as sturdy as one might wish. Either way, it makes sense -- which is why Apple priced it where they did.
posted by cribcage at 9:50 AM on August 17, 2005

busted latch on my 17-month-old Powerbook

a bad power supply connection but that requires the replacement of the logic board, a $700 fix

had her G4 since Nov. and last month the screen died

hard drive failed, 14 months into the ownership of my Powerbook

power cables going between the chassis and the screen were getting pinched whenever you opened the screen and arced against the chassis

Hard drive failure, eighteen months on from buying it

Once for a hard drive failure, once for general wonkiness

ibook needed its second and third logic board replacements

eMac's motherboard died about 15 months after she purchased it

superdrive wasn't reading CDs

iBook had a major failure (the CPU) at about 6 months

One has been to the shop once (motherboard) and the other has been twice (power issues)


What. The. Fuck? I'm not an Apple hater (or at least I wasn't), but any company that distributes hardware like this will never see any of my money. And they expect $350 insurance from you to stave off the prohibitive repair costs? Insane. To actually answer your question: if you are going to buy (or already have bought) this G4, it looks like you better pay for the extortion AppleCare.
posted by Who_Am_I at 10:07 AM on August 17, 2005

Another note about AppleCare if you buy from the online Apple Store - the date that they base everything from is the order date, not the shipping date. If you like buying equipment the day that Steve announces it, keep that in mind. I was bitten by the 1 year thing in the past because of this (two first revision 12" PBG4s, both had hard drive failures early in their "second" years).
posted by lowlife at 10:08 AM on August 17, 2005

Totally worth it. I'm dreading the expiry of the AppleCare on my iBook in ~9 months. It's been wonderful.
posted by waldo at 10:16 AM on August 17, 2005

My iBook has a screen that is fritzy due to a "pinched wire" (according to the tech guy at the local Apple Store). This problem developed just outside the warrantee perioed.

I had exactly the same issue. If the screen was opened beyond a certain angle (about 120 degrees for me), the wires got pinched, the power arced, and the machine would power off. Then the machine would only boot with the screen at less than a 120 degree angle.

Solution? Well, I almost took it in for warranty, but we decided to open it up ourselves. After some digging around, we found the culprit wire, wrapped it in insulating tape, and everything has been good.
posted by wackybrit at 10:19 AM on August 17, 2005

Hmmmm - I am at the point where I can renew for the two years.

Those of you who are saying it is totally worth it, but not providing details, have you had to use Applecare in the final two years of coverage, and for what parts? Or is it just for the piece of mind?
posted by mzurer at 10:27 AM on August 17, 2005

Just on the dates bit: They are and aren't sticklers. I missed the deadline (just) and couldn't sign up online, but when I called them up, they gave it to me with no trouble.
posted by dame at 10:28 AM on August 17, 2005

Not on preview, but yes mzurer. I've had to use it in the last two years. Then again, my computer eats logic boards.
posted by dame at 10:30 AM on August 17, 2005

I shun all extended warenties, store based or otherwise except for Applecare.

I bought a G3 "snow" iBook and 8 months in the screen went to crap. It was fixed under the normal warranty. They even replaced my keyboard free of charge since my cat had managed to dislodge a few keys I couldn't quite get back on.

Then 6 months later the monitor went to crap again. Same problem. Sent it out under Applecare on Monday, got it back Friday.

A month later the same thing happened. Sent it out, got it back with a free CD-R/DVD-R upgrade to boot.

Apple's quality control on their iBooks has been anecdotally dodgy for the past three or four years. Without Applecare I'd have a nice lucite doorstop.
posted by alan at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2005

Remy, Applecare doesn't cover accidental damage to the screen, so your advice was good in this instance.

Applecare also doesn't cover batteries since Apple considers them to be consumables.

...but any company that distributes hardware like this will never see any of my money
Have you ever bought a computer? If so, I guarantee that a similar complaint list could be found for the brand you bought.
posted by joaquim at 11:15 AM on August 17, 2005

What. The. Fuck? I'm not an Apple hater (or at least I wasn't), but any company that distributes hardware like this will never see any of my money.

I was just thinking the same thing. Shoot, I have a el-cheapo $600 E Machines and it hasn't given me a single problem since the day I took it out of the box.

Just reading about all the problems people have with Apple products in this thread, I'd say if you've already bought the hardware you'd be foolish NOT to get their insurance. Clearly it's not built to last much beyond the first year.
posted by Kellydamnit at 11:22 AM on August 17, 2005

Have you ever bought a computer? If so, I guarantee that a similar complaint list could be found for the brand you bought.

I'm not in any danger of leaving the Apple fold, but I've got to say this doesn't match my experience. The quality of Apple's products is just, well, unacceptable. They look great, they feel great, and are great except they're prone to failure (as this thread demonstrates). Yes, Apple's great to work with when a failure happens, but the trouble is it's not "if" a failure happens but "when".

I've bought computers for several companies over the past decade. I do network administration for two companies at the moment. None of these companies use Apple products (though I do try to pitch them from time-to-time). While I hate using the Dells and HPs and what-have-yous, they work, and they continue to work without complaint for years. One office is using a couple of seven-year-old computers that have never given a hint of a problem. There's an occasional failure, but it's only occasional, and usually minor. I think the last thing was a noisy fan in a Dell laptop a couple of years ago.

From my personal experience, Apple computers are more failure prone than other brands by at least an order of magnitude.

But I still drink the kool-aid.
posted by jdroth at 11:25 AM on August 17, 2005

Just to point out: in a thread asking whether buying insurance is worth it or not, of course you're going to get more answers listing problems. It's a biased sample.

IMO, it's totally worth it. I didn't buy it for my powerbook, whose hard drive died at around 15 months. A friend offered to fix it for me (bad idea!), but he ended up frying my logic board, and I ended up with a brand new ibook.
posted by rosethorn at 12:16 PM on August 17, 2005

Buy it, or risk regretting the savings later...

Doubly so for Apple hardware, which can be quirky and not easily user-fixeable.
posted by clevershark at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2005

The fact that I just spent £200 plus labour on repairs to my sans-Applecare iBook makes me want to chime in with another vote for Applecare.

The reason I didn't get it on the iBook was that my previous clamshell iBook is in tip top condition to this day, and the iMac before that is still happily working for the person who bought it from me. Of course, I bought Applecare for those two. Can't remember if that's Murphy's or Sod's Law.
posted by jack_mo at 1:57 PM on August 17, 2005

but any company that distributes hardware like this will never see any of my money
and
Apple computers are more failure prone than other brands by at least an order of magnitude.

I expect deletion, because this goes off topic, but this is not the objective truth. Anecdotes don't substitute for statistics. Anyone who works with both PC and Mac platforms, as I do, can tell horror stories about either one. In my shop, the PCs have always been more failure prone.

Apple routinely ranks at or near the top for reliability and service, with Toshiba and IBM generally winning on the PC side. This is certainly true for desktop computers, and has been statistically confirmed recently by Consumer Reports (mentioned in the last link above).

Computers fail. Laptops are especially prone to problems and Apple, despite the publicity for its bigger design and quality problems, is certainly no worse than the top PC makers for overall quality, and almost always ranks better for service and customer care. The best reason to buy AppleCare is peace of mind. But if a problem develops due to a distributed design flaw, Apple's record is for fixing it well out of warranty.
posted by realcountrymusic at 2:05 PM on August 17, 2005

I expect deletion, because this goes off topic, but this is not the objective truth. Anecdotes don't substitute for statistics.

Yes, yes. I regret my previous statement. I'm wrong! I'm wrong! I even came back here to retract it.

I've just had lousy experience with Macintosh quality, and no real bad experience with major PC brands. Intellectually, I realize the logical fallacy I committed, but that didn't stop me from committing it. Don't stone me!
posted by jdroth at 2:09 PM on August 17, 2005

Anecdotes, then. My primary development server is a 2001 Powermac G3 933MHz tower, 1GB/1TB, running OSX Tiger server. In four years it has never failed once (well, we had a bad firewire port, because some idiot yanked the cord out from the side and bent the pins). It is sitting quietly beside me now, serving huge audio and video files to my lab, a database to users around the country, and three websites in development, after a distinguished career as a video production workstation. The identical computer (I keep a duplicate) sits on my desk downstairs. It too has never failed, not even once. I have a 1998 Powerbook G3 running a little project management server every day, again without a failure in 7 years. My closet is full of dead and not-worth-fixing PCs, not dead Macs. I don't think Apples are insanely better engineered than any other computers, but absolutely no worse than name brand PCs. And they last longer, and end up costing less, in real dollars, for me to buy and operate.
posted by realcountrymusic at 2:38 PM on August 17, 2005

Grr. Powermac G4 933 MHz, not G3. The old Pismo is the last G3 around here, but it works like a top.
posted by realcountrymusic at 2:39 PM on August 17, 2005

I've had an ibook for 2 and a half years with no problems, and I didn't buy applecare. It's even in the right serial # range for logic board problems, but I haven't seen that. Either I'm just lucky, or I take better care of it than most (the only unusual thing I do, though, is that I have a fairly thickly padded case that it doesn't leave the house without).
posted by advil at 2:58 PM on August 17, 2005

I just bought a new iBook, and have been looking into insuring it somehow. State Farm will insure it for $30 annually, with no deductible, covering theft, loss, accidental breakage, pretty much everything really. Why would anyone buy Applecare - which just covers mechanical failure - when you could get much broader insurance much cheaper?
posted by Sfving at 3:04 PM on August 17, 2005

I generally use the one year extension service on my American Express. This has saved me some, without being skimmed a lot.
posted by sled at 3:20 PM on August 17, 2005

The real question is whether or not your budget can handle an unplanned repurchase of your computer.

If it can, skip it.

The most important thing to skip... all the useless anecdotes in this thread. A quick check of consumerreports (whose reliability stats are decent, even if their reviews are silly) shows that laptops are essentially a dead heat. Toshiba leads at 16%, Apple at 17%, IBM, Sony and Dell are at 18%, HP is at 19%, Gateway and Compaq are at 21%, for repairs and serious problems.
posted by mosch at 3:24 PM on August 17, 2005

Since the reliability stats are a dead heat, quality and speed of service really makes the difference. My experience with Apple in this respect has been letter perfect, and Dell the opposite.

I would be surprised if a commercial insurance policy did cover mechanical failure of a computer, and would think it would be a hassle to collect in any case. Maybe I'm wrong. But the coverage against accidents is cool.
posted by realcountrymusic at 3:28 PM on August 17, 2005

I am returning late to this thread to add this late news, from TechWeb via Yahoo:

U.S. consumers put Apple on a pedestal of customer satisfaction, according to a survey released Tuesday, but dropped Dell off its prior perch to put it in a tie with the rest of the PC market.

For the second year in a row, the American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), an annual survey of U.S. consumers' opinions of various industries and brand-name companies, has given Apple the highest score in the personal computer category. Apple's rating of 81 is significantly above the average of 74.

posted by realcountrymusic at 6:26 AM on August 19, 2005