family support during divorce?
October 12, 2012 1:09 PM Subscribe
My family has taken a side in my amicable divorce. And it's not "my" side. How do I get support from them when I am isolated and depressed and really need them?
A little family history: we have always been close, although we have had difficulties amongst ourselves, we have a history of pulling together during trying times and supporting one another. My aunt and uncle and my mother are in their 60's, my sibling, cousins and I are in our 40's.
My family loved my husband instantly, which was a large part of why I married him after only knowing him for a year. I knew when I married him that I was making a huge mistake – I felt no attraction. He was so *nice*, so I talked myself into going through with it, reasoning that I could live without happy sex. After six years of marriage, I could no longer bear it. I was fed up with his constant drinking and his refusal to take any responsibility. It became a constant cycle of him having a realization about his problems, completely forgetting it and then when he had the (same) realization a few months later, it was a whole new idea to him. While I understood how these issues arose in his family of origin, and how they were compounded by being in an unhappy marriage, I couldn't just be okay with the way things were.
Because of my resentment toward him for these issues he could not address, my disinterest in him sexually turned to repulsion. I was horrified to have him even see me naked; I felt like there was a creepy stranger from the subway in my bedroom, trying to touch me. I cried during sex, I gained a tremendous amount of weight, I built a fortress of pillows and blankets around me at night and fell asleep praying that he wouldn't try to touch me. I was severely depressed.
We went to therapy for almost a year trying to work through these issues. His pattern of epiphany/no action/re-epiphany continued during therapy. My revulsion deepened. I considered staying in the marriage and seeking sexual fulfillment elsewhere, but it wasn't that I was unfulfilled. The issue was that I felt trapped into a sexual obligation towards someone I was horrified to have touch me. I told him that I wanted a divorce. I knew he was unhappy and not admitting it, so his response did not surprise me. Initially he was devastated; now it has been nearly a year and he is doing okay. He agrees that the marriage had not worked and that divorce was the right thing. We are separated and waiting for a resolution to some property issues to finalize the actual divorce. (As an aside, we don't have any children.)
The problem is my family. Some of them are barely speaking to me. I have been told that I am not allowed to talk about the marriage, divorce or my reaction to any of it in their presence. I have been told by various family members that "There is no valid reason you could possibly have for divorcing him"; "After all he has done for our family, for you to do this to him is terrible"; "You did this and you have to live with the consequence of people being upset with you". I have been excluded from family events that he was invited to (and did) attend.
My husband has attempted to reason with them, but the only result of that is that they think he's an even better guy for sticking up for me after "what I did to him". My mother is on my side and agrees with the divorce, but is not a person who would go out of her way to stand up for me. My father is dead but, while my mother and I believe that he would have supported me, the rest of the family think that he would have agreed with them that I have made an unforgivable mistake. I feel totally isolated and depressed. My friends are all enraged at my family for this behavior; although my friends all love my husband, they could see the necessity of divorce.
I suspect that there is a lot of projection going on in my family around this issue – justification for unhappy marriages, anger at spouses who have left, fear about impending marriages, etc. is all being projected onto me. I feel like I have become the boogeyman for their relationship problems.
My question is: How do I get my family to stop seeing me as the enemy and to support me?
A little family history: we have always been close, although we have had difficulties amongst ourselves, we have a history of pulling together during trying times and supporting one another. My aunt and uncle and my mother are in their 60's, my sibling, cousins and I are in our 40's.
My family loved my husband instantly, which was a large part of why I married him after only knowing him for a year. I knew when I married him that I was making a huge mistake – I felt no attraction. He was so *nice*, so I talked myself into going through with it, reasoning that I could live without happy sex. After six years of marriage, I could no longer bear it. I was fed up with his constant drinking and his refusal to take any responsibility. It became a constant cycle of him having a realization about his problems, completely forgetting it and then when he had the (same) realization a few months later, it was a whole new idea to him. While I understood how these issues arose in his family of origin, and how they were compounded by being in an unhappy marriage, I couldn't just be okay with the way things were.
Because of my resentment toward him for these issues he could not address, my disinterest in him sexually turned to repulsion. I was horrified to have him even see me naked; I felt like there was a creepy stranger from the subway in my bedroom, trying to touch me. I cried during sex, I gained a tremendous amount of weight, I built a fortress of pillows and blankets around me at night and fell asleep praying that he wouldn't try to touch me. I was severely depressed.
We went to therapy for almost a year trying to work through these issues. His pattern of epiphany/no action/re-epiphany continued during therapy. My revulsion deepened. I considered staying in the marriage and seeking sexual fulfillment elsewhere, but it wasn't that I was unfulfilled. The issue was that I felt trapped into a sexual obligation towards someone I was horrified to have touch me. I told him that I wanted a divorce. I knew he was unhappy and not admitting it, so his response did not surprise me. Initially he was devastated; now it has been nearly a year and he is doing okay. He agrees that the marriage had not worked and that divorce was the right thing. We are separated and waiting for a resolution to some property issues to finalize the actual divorce. (As an aside, we don't have any children.)
The problem is my family. Some of them are barely speaking to me. I have been told that I am not allowed to talk about the marriage, divorce or my reaction to any of it in their presence. I have been told by various family members that "There is no valid reason you could possibly have for divorcing him"; "After all he has done for our family, for you to do this to him is terrible"; "You did this and you have to live with the consequence of people being upset with you". I have been excluded from family events that he was invited to (and did) attend.
My husband has attempted to reason with them, but the only result of that is that they think he's an even better guy for sticking up for me after "what I did to him". My mother is on my side and agrees with the divorce, but is not a person who would go out of her way to stand up for me. My father is dead but, while my mother and I believe that he would have supported me, the rest of the family think that he would have agreed with them that I have made an unforgivable mistake. I feel totally isolated and depressed. My friends are all enraged at my family for this behavior; although my friends all love my husband, they could see the necessity of divorce.
I suspect that there is a lot of projection going on in my family around this issue – justification for unhappy marriages, anger at spouses who have left, fear about impending marriages, etc. is all being projected onto me. I feel like I have become the boogeyman for their relationship problems.
My question is: How do I get my family to stop seeing me as the enemy and to support me?
I've been through something similar to this and witnessed others dealing with similar things. You can't get them to support you. It's never going to happen.
The answer is to rely on your friends and disengage from your family until it's over and they're read to act like grown-ups again. This is really none of their business and they should butt out, instead of telling you that you're not allowed to discuss it. The one thing they're right about is that it's not a good time for you to be communicating with them if it's just making everyone upset.
You could try asking your ex to stop attending their events. That really needs to stop.
posted by bleep at 1:18 PM on October 12, 2012 [10 favorites]
The answer is to rely on your friends and disengage from your family until it's over and they're read to act like grown-ups again. This is really none of their business and they should butt out, instead of telling you that you're not allowed to discuss it. The one thing they're right about is that it's not a good time for you to be communicating with them if it's just making everyone upset.
You could try asking your ex to stop attending their events. That really needs to stop.
posted by bleep at 1:18 PM on October 12, 2012 [10 favorites]
You have to give it time. Be the better person. It has nothing to do with you.
The truth of the matter is people don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
If you happen to speak to someone about this, or they bring it up or whatever, just say, "I'm not sure how this affects you directly as I was the one who had to live with him. While he's a lovely person, we're not right together. If you feel you need to punish me, I guess you can carry on with that. I wish you could love and support me as this was an incredibly hard decison for me, but since you can't I don't need to have you in my life."
Then walk away.
Your Ex is crossing a boundary by attending family events. But you're fragile and who needs the drama. If he want's to sit next to Auntie Doris and eat 7-layer salad, let him. Hang out with your friends.
I'm telling you now, so you can start planning, make arrangements for the holidays, with friends or if you have to, leave the country. Anything not to be around the crazy at the worst time of the year.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:21 PM on October 12, 2012 [19 favorites]
The truth of the matter is people don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
If you happen to speak to someone about this, or they bring it up or whatever, just say, "I'm not sure how this affects you directly as I was the one who had to live with him. While he's a lovely person, we're not right together. If you feel you need to punish me, I guess you can carry on with that. I wish you could love and support me as this was an incredibly hard decison for me, but since you can't I don't need to have you in my life."
Then walk away.
Your Ex is crossing a boundary by attending family events. But you're fragile and who needs the drama. If he want's to sit next to Auntie Doris and eat 7-layer salad, let him. Hang out with your friends.
I'm telling you now, so you can start planning, make arrangements for the holidays, with friends or if you have to, leave the country. Anything not to be around the crazy at the worst time of the year.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:21 PM on October 12, 2012 [19 favorites]
The problem is my family. Some of them are barely speaking to me. I have been told that I am not allowed to talk about the marriage, divorce or my reaction to any of it in their presence. I have been told by various family members that "There is no valid reason you could possibly have for divorcing him"; "After all he has done for our family, for you to do this to him is terrible"; "You did this and you have to live with the consequence of people being upset with you". I have been excluded from family events that he was invited to (and did) attend.
So you come from an abusive family, that much is clear. I say disengage from them entirely, set the ground rules for when they can be allowed back in your life ("When you're able to talk to me like an adult family member, and not like some errant child being given a time-out, I will be happy to see you again"), then get the help you need.
RuPaul once said, "Other people's opinions of me are none of my business," and that has gotten me through more stupid interpersonal struggles than I can tell you.
posted by xingcat at 1:23 PM on October 12, 2012 [25 favorites]
So you come from an abusive family, that much is clear. I say disengage from them entirely, set the ground rules for when they can be allowed back in your life ("When you're able to talk to me like an adult family member, and not like some errant child being given a time-out, I will be happy to see you again"), then get the help you need.
RuPaul once said, "Other people's opinions of me are none of my business," and that has gotten me through more stupid interpersonal struggles than I can tell you.
posted by xingcat at 1:23 PM on October 12, 2012 [25 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Like Blahlala said above, there is no way to make them change; you can only control your response. Unfortunately, you'll need to accept that the support you need through this difficult time is not going to come from certain family members.
Instead, look at not only therapists but also divorce support groups. After my divorce (following a very similar marriage), I was in DBT therapy for a while. DBT included focusing on my response to problems instead of panicking about how other people behaved AND had a compulsory group session. Weird at first, but in the end it was very, very helpful.
It's also unfortunate your mother isn't the type to stick up for you. Stick up for yourself. When they say, ""There is no valid reason you could possibly have for divorcing him," you can give yourself permission to say, "You were not married to him and YOU have no valid reason for saying that." And it's too bad that your ex is a bit of a clueless tool who should be learning how to bow out gracefully and exiting your family instead of allowing them to exclude you. Have a talk with him about it or compose a letter, maybe with the help of your family. If he's really such a stand-up guy, he'll get it and go back to his own family functions.
posted by mibo at 1:27 PM on October 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
Like Blahlala said above, there is no way to make them change; you can only control your response. Unfortunately, you'll need to accept that the support you need through this difficult time is not going to come from certain family members.
Instead, look at not only therapists but also divorce support groups. After my divorce (following a very similar marriage), I was in DBT therapy for a while. DBT included focusing on my response to problems instead of panicking about how other people behaved AND had a compulsory group session. Weird at first, but in the end it was very, very helpful.
It's also unfortunate your mother isn't the type to stick up for you. Stick up for yourself. When they say, ""There is no valid reason you could possibly have for divorcing him," you can give yourself permission to say, "You were not married to him and YOU have no valid reason for saying that." And it's too bad that your ex is a bit of a clueless tool who should be learning how to bow out gracefully and exiting your family instead of allowing them to exclude you. Have a talk with him about it or compose a letter, maybe with the help of your family. If he's really such a stand-up guy, he'll get it and go back to his own family functions.
posted by mibo at 1:27 PM on October 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
(As an aside... I'm appalled your ex is attending events on your side of the family that you are not invited to. Yuck.)
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I also think you must find a way to stop caring what these people think. Your assessment that they are projecting sounds spot-on, and you can not reason with them.
I'm sorry you are losing your illusions of a family that "sticks together" while you are going through a divorce.
On the other hand, it seems like a GREAT opportunity to further develop your own self-reliance and independence.
Try and see this as a blessing. You're getting healthy and have a second chance at true happiness. Some of the folks judging you don't sound as if they have the personal strength or opportunity to create new chances at happiness and fulfillment in their lives. Know what I mean?
Your courage scares them. Cleave to your courage and push through.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 1:33 PM on October 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
---
I also think you must find a way to stop caring what these people think. Your assessment that they are projecting sounds spot-on, and you can not reason with them.
I'm sorry you are losing your illusions of a family that "sticks together" while you are going through a divorce.
On the other hand, it seems like a GREAT opportunity to further develop your own self-reliance and independence.
Try and see this as a blessing. You're getting healthy and have a second chance at true happiness. Some of the folks judging you don't sound as if they have the personal strength or opportunity to create new chances at happiness and fulfillment in their lives. Know what I mean?
Your courage scares them. Cleave to your courage and push through.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 1:33 PM on October 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
And, by "help of your family" I meant "help of your therapist" of course.
posted by mibo at 1:35 PM on October 12, 2012
posted by mibo at 1:35 PM on October 12, 2012
Hate to say it, but the answer is probably to divorce your family, too. Sometimes life works out that way. You're going to have to find new sources of support to lean on.
posted by empath at 1:39 PM on October 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by empath at 1:39 PM on October 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
You got married because your family liked him, even though you knew you were making a mistake. And he is an alcoholic.
First, I would wonder what is wrong with them that they were so taken with an alcoholic. Second, I think you need to realize that by marrying him kind of on their say so, you very loudly announced their say matters a heckuva lot to you and they have a right to make such decisions for you. You really shouldn't be surprised that they are taking it personally that you left him. It is like a slap at their judgement. Third, you need to thus view the divorce as not just about you and your husband but very much about you and how you relate to your extended family.
You are absolutely right: A lot of this is about them projecting their crap onto you. And, in most cases, there is very little you can do about that. I think you need to tell yourself that they have no right to basically prostitute you as a means to justify their life choices. Given how ugly things got in the bedroom before you left, I am guessing the ugly way your family is treating you now is just scratching the surface of how ugly they can be. If it were me, I would view the lack of invitations as a lefthanded favor. I would use the time it frees up to start looking for relationships which might be more genuinely caring and supportive.
I am so sorry you are going though this.
posted by Michele in California at 1:41 PM on October 12, 2012 [8 favorites]
First, I would wonder what is wrong with them that they were so taken with an alcoholic. Second, I think you need to realize that by marrying him kind of on their say so, you very loudly announced their say matters a heckuva lot to you and they have a right to make such decisions for you. You really shouldn't be surprised that they are taking it personally that you left him. It is like a slap at their judgement. Third, you need to thus view the divorce as not just about you and your husband but very much about you and how you relate to your extended family.
You are absolutely right: A lot of this is about them projecting their crap onto you. And, in most cases, there is very little you can do about that. I think you need to tell yourself that they have no right to basically prostitute you as a means to justify their life choices. Given how ugly things got in the bedroom before you left, I am guessing the ugly way your family is treating you now is just scratching the surface of how ugly they can be. If it were me, I would view the lack of invitations as a lefthanded favor. I would use the time it frees up to start looking for relationships which might be more genuinely caring and supportive.
I am so sorry you are going though this.
posted by Michele in California at 1:41 PM on October 12, 2012 [8 favorites]
You'll only reap grief by trying to seek comfort from people who really, obviously think you're the antagonist in this situation. "Family" means different things to different people, and to your family, it means putting their own conception of the divorce ahead of yours because they know better via whatever justification they're giving their awful behavior. Have you ever tried to convince someone that you know better than they do, when personal emotional issues are involved? It's like beating your head against a wall.
They are not going to be there for you, no matter how hard you try. This isn't your fault, and this isn't a failure on your part. Sometimes, when push comes to shove, even seemingly decent people turn out to be shitty.
posted by griphus at 1:46 PM on October 12, 2012
They are not going to be there for you, no matter how hard you try. This isn't your fault, and this isn't a failure on your part. Sometimes, when push comes to shove, even seemingly decent people turn out to be shitty.
posted by griphus at 1:46 PM on October 12, 2012
"There is no valid reason you could possibly have for divorcing him"; "After all he has done for our family, for you to do this to him is terrible";
Also, in many cultures, the confluence of "marriage," "love" and "sexual attraction" is the exception and not the rule. If you're coming from a context where marriage is seen as a transaction for domestic security rather than that thing you do because you want to spend the rest of your life with a specific human being who makes you happy, you're not going to be changing anyone's mind. In the minds and eyes of people raised to think that way, you've done something incredibly wanton and immature, which may be why they're not going to accept your input on this.
posted by griphus at 1:50 PM on October 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, in many cultures, the confluence of "marriage," "love" and "sexual attraction" is the exception and not the rule. If you're coming from a context where marriage is seen as a transaction for domestic security rather than that thing you do because you want to spend the rest of your life with a specific human being who makes you happy, you're not going to be changing anyone's mind. In the minds and eyes of people raised to think that way, you've done something incredibly wanton and immature, which may be why they're not going to accept your input on this.
posted by griphus at 1:50 PM on October 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
In the minds and eyes of people raised to think that way, you've done something incredibly wanton and immature, which may be why they're not going to accept your input on this.
But you're not, are you. And who knows if this is what they really even think, of if they're just frightened, judgmental people who can't help going around pouring salt in other people's wounds. If there is a history of you having had to please them or be a certain way to gain their love or acceptance, it could be that your husband is not the issue at all. He is just one more dimension in the mire of their confusion about how to be a loving supportive family. Pity the mindset, but don't get sucked in.
Live your own awesome life. It sounds like you have friends. That's great. Time will pass. You will find your own life as a single person get better and better, maybe even fall in love again. After a period of distance, they will try to get you back, as it seems from the OP that your family communicates often, despite sometimes limited understanding of each other. And when they start trying to get you back, there may be conditions attached. They may bring it up a few more times... how wonderful he was, how awful it was you divorced him. These are tests. You obviously don't need to pass them, but you know that. Ultimately, they have nothing to really be upset about because this is none of their business, and the furor will die down.
I think it's wonderful that you made your choice and have the potential to find someone more compatible with you now. It seems your ex is moving on as well. Haters gonna hate. It hurts now, but it will fade.
posted by kettleoffish at 2:02 PM on October 12, 2012
But you're not, are you. And who knows if this is what they really even think, of if they're just frightened, judgmental people who can't help going around pouring salt in other people's wounds. If there is a history of you having had to please them or be a certain way to gain their love or acceptance, it could be that your husband is not the issue at all. He is just one more dimension in the mire of their confusion about how to be a loving supportive family. Pity the mindset, but don't get sucked in.
Live your own awesome life. It sounds like you have friends. That's great. Time will pass. You will find your own life as a single person get better and better, maybe even fall in love again. After a period of distance, they will try to get you back, as it seems from the OP that your family communicates often, despite sometimes limited understanding of each other. And when they start trying to get you back, there may be conditions attached. They may bring it up a few more times... how wonderful he was, how awful it was you divorced him. These are tests. You obviously don't need to pass them, but you know that. Ultimately, they have nothing to really be upset about because this is none of their business, and the furor will die down.
I think it's wonderful that you made your choice and have the potential to find someone more compatible with you now. It seems your ex is moving on as well. Haters gonna hate. It hurts now, but it will fade.
posted by kettleoffish at 2:02 PM on October 12, 2012
I have a friend who went through a similar situation, and things got a lot better for her. It was hard for her family and the mutual friends to accept the divorce because the guy acted nice and polite in front of them, so they did not see why she possibly wanted to divorce him (same reasons - drinking, lack of physical attraction). Her family blamed her for the divorce and took it really hard and thought it was her responsibility to stay in a love-less unhappy marriage because she made a promise before them and before god. Luckily, they came around later. I am not sure what she said to them during the hard times, probably something like "I am sorry you are not able to support me right now, but I know this is the right decision for me, instead of being unhappy for the next 40 years of my life." She did not start drama about this.
Just wanted to give you some hope. Yes, this sucks right now, because they are not there for you when you need their support NOW, but don't give up on them. I don't think you need to "divorce" your family, I don't think that them supporting you is "never going to happen." But you should find other support in the meantime. Keep being the good person that you are, and your family will eventually come to accept this. And in the future, you might have the urge to get mad and wonder why the heck you're waiting for them to "forgive" you when you're doing nothing wrong, but keep in mind that this is hard for them too. Divorce affects everyone in a family. So if they do come around and if you do value your relationships with your family, just be the bigger person and say "I've missed you. I'm glad we can continue our good relationship and put this behind us." Sure, you can hold on to the bitterness, but why?
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 2:17 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just wanted to give you some hope. Yes, this sucks right now, because they are not there for you when you need their support NOW, but don't give up on them. I don't think you need to "divorce" your family, I don't think that them supporting you is "never going to happen." But you should find other support in the meantime. Keep being the good person that you are, and your family will eventually come to accept this. And in the future, you might have the urge to get mad and wonder why the heck you're waiting for them to "forgive" you when you're doing nothing wrong, but keep in mind that this is hard for them too. Divorce affects everyone in a family. So if they do come around and if you do value your relationships with your family, just be the bigger person and say "I've missed you. I'm glad we can continue our good relationship and put this behind us." Sure, you can hold on to the bitterness, but why?
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 2:17 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
My friends are all enraged at my family for this behavior
I think you need to draw support from your friends, maybe even say to them explicitly, "Because my family is being so awful about this, I'm going to need a lot of support. Can you be there for me?"
Your family members may or may not come around on this topic, but for now, you can't depend on them to be supportive. You want to know how to get your family to support you, and the answer is... you can't. But what you can do is limit your interactions with people who treat you badly, surround yourself with people who treat you well, and take care of yourself in other ways, such as doing activities you enjoy, seeing a therapist, getting medical care when you need it, treating yourself to a massage, exercising, etc.
posted by Meg_Murry at 2:40 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think you need to draw support from your friends, maybe even say to them explicitly, "Because my family is being so awful about this, I'm going to need a lot of support. Can you be there for me?"
Your family members may or may not come around on this topic, but for now, you can't depend on them to be supportive. You want to know how to get your family to support you, and the answer is... you can't. But what you can do is limit your interactions with people who treat you badly, surround yourself with people who treat you well, and take care of yourself in other ways, such as doing activities you enjoy, seeing a therapist, getting medical care when you need it, treating yourself to a massage, exercising, etc.
posted by Meg_Murry at 2:40 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
First, if it's that amicable, you need to call up your ex and say, "Look, I know these people still like you, and I know you've gotten along with them. But they're my family. This marriage hasn't worked out; you need to move on and have a life that does not include continuing to associate with my family, because it's destroying my relationship with them." If he keeps attending your family's events just because he was invited, despite knowing that you're being excluded, after being told this, then you need to stop regarding this as an amicable divorce. If he continues to act that way, knowing it's hurtful to you, then it's not that he's being friendly, it's that he's being passive-aggressive.
If he's willing to cut them off, then in the long run, they're going to have less reason to be trying to defend him. They're probably never going to be "okay" with this. But you've got lots of other resources to draw support from; you don't really need them to help you, you just need them to stop making it worse, and then the support from your mom and your friends will probably feel a lot more sufficient. His continuing association with them is preventing this wound from healing over. It might always be a scar, and you can't force them to be okay with it, but if he will actually break away from them, then at least it can become a thing of the past and not an ongoing injury.
posted by gracedissolved at 2:46 PM on October 12, 2012 [23 favorites]
If he's willing to cut them off, then in the long run, they're going to have less reason to be trying to defend him. They're probably never going to be "okay" with this. But you've got lots of other resources to draw support from; you don't really need them to help you, you just need them to stop making it worse, and then the support from your mom and your friends will probably feel a lot more sufficient. His continuing association with them is preventing this wound from healing over. It might always be a scar, and you can't force them to be okay with it, but if he will actually break away from them, then at least it can become a thing of the past and not an ongoing injury.
posted by gracedissolved at 2:46 PM on October 12, 2012 [23 favorites]
Yes, they're projecting - so there's nothing you can do to fix that.
Those friends who are enraged at your family - they're your new family. Family should be people who help you, not hurt you.
posted by heyjude at 3:00 PM on October 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Those friends who are enraged at your family - they're your new family. Family should be people who help you, not hurt you.
posted by heyjude at 3:00 PM on October 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
My mother is on my side and agrees with the divorce, but is not a person who would go out of her way to stand up for me.
Can you spend some time with your mother and maybe your sibling alone?
I'm flabbergasted that your aunts and uncles think this is their business. It also makes me mad that your mother doesn't stand up for you-- my mother did the same kind of thing to me-- but you might want to keep the door open for a relationship with her down the line. Aunts and uncles who treated me like that would go into the "dead to me" category-- I mean really, who needs that shit?-- unless they apologized and reformed.
posted by BibiRose at 5:12 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Can you spend some time with your mother and maybe your sibling alone?
I'm flabbergasted that your aunts and uncles think this is their business. It also makes me mad that your mother doesn't stand up for you-- my mother did the same kind of thing to me-- but you might want to keep the door open for a relationship with her down the line. Aunts and uncles who treated me like that would go into the "dead to me" category-- I mean really, who needs that shit?-- unless they apologized and reformed.
posted by BibiRose at 5:12 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I went through something very similar after my first marriage ended. It took my family a couple of years to come around and start looking at me in the eye again, and when that happened I told them the raw truth-- going way into TMI territory about the lack of sex (no sex for a year!) and physical repulsion to really drive home my point. And they really got it, and eventually accepted it. They just weren't ready to hear those details any sooner.
posted by joan_holloway at 6:35 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by joan_holloway at 6:35 PM on October 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I spent a lot of time worrying about this sort of thing after divorcing a guy who happened to be a friend of my sister's husband. Before she married him, we had a great relationship. Afterwards, not so hot. Very judgy, even more judgy than she'd been before. Judgy brothers, too.
Took me a while, but then I realized that my siblings were not my friends: they were merely judgy people who didn't give a flying fuck about who I was now, nor were they factors in my everyday life. Yet, even after years of being apart, they felt they could pronounce their judginess on me. Even though they all agreed my first husband was not so hot and they didn't want to be around him, somehow I had done Something Wrong by Getting Divorced (although 2 out of 3 of them had done so).
Finally, I figured out that just because I had lived with these people while being raised by my parents in the same household doesn't mean I have to live my adult life with their approval, and their judgment means diddly squat. They have gone their way, and I have gone mine. I am over 18. Well over 18. This is a free country. I don't have to talk to them, nor they me. As long as I don't tell them my business, I don't have to hear their utter bullshit. So I don't tell them my business, and if they want to visit with my ex-husband, which they don't, but if they did, they are free to do so. Without my involvement.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:49 PM on October 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Took me a while, but then I realized that my siblings were not my friends: they were merely judgy people who didn't give a flying fuck about who I was now, nor were they factors in my everyday life. Yet, even after years of being apart, they felt they could pronounce their judginess on me. Even though they all agreed my first husband was not so hot and they didn't want to be around him, somehow I had done Something Wrong by Getting Divorced (although 2 out of 3 of them had done so).
Finally, I figured out that just because I had lived with these people while being raised by my parents in the same household doesn't mean I have to live my adult life with their approval, and their judgment means diddly squat. They have gone their way, and I have gone mine. I am over 18. Well over 18. This is a free country. I don't have to talk to them, nor they me. As long as I don't tell them my business, I don't have to hear their utter bullshit. So I don't tell them my business, and if they want to visit with my ex-husband, which they don't, but if they did, they are free to do so. Without my involvement.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:49 PM on October 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
In your shoes I would cut myself off from my family and take solace with those who actually treat me well. Difficult, but easier than having people who know how to hurt you repeatedly twisting the knife.
Good luck.
posted by ead at 8:39 PM on October 12, 2012
Good luck.
posted by ead at 8:39 PM on October 12, 2012
Divorce in my family has often led to the same rejection and shaming of the family member who got divorced. It is because they are judgmental and mean people. It had nothing to do with the actual reasons for divorce. It was simply an opportunity for resentful family members to lord it over someone else and make it clear that they knew better and were more moral, faithful, etc., and that that person was a failure.
I do have one in-law who I would rather keep in touch with than the family member they divorced, because that family member is horrible, and somewhat as a result has lost primary custody of the kids. But you know what - even in this case where the horrible family member was divorcing a nicer and more stable person, the toxic people went half her side, half his side, depending on who won them the most points in their internal family dynamics. It had NOTHING to do with the people getting divorced. It was all about family power plays.
Your mom and your friends sound great. Hang up on the rest of them, accept that they are disappointments to you and maybe in a year or two, some better cousins will reach out to you. At least you found out that they would pull this crap during a mostly amicable divorce, not during something more traumatic.
I'm guessing from your post that it hurts that your mom doesn't back you up more assertively, but she has probably seem this family drama before and has learned to keep her head down and just survive through it. Unless it's critical to your sanity, let her deal with them in her own way and save her energy for supporting you emotionally.
Good luck - you sound like you're making hard brave choices and the next few years will be full of discovery and your own chosen family of good people.
posted by viggorlijah at 12:34 AM on October 13, 2012 [3 favorites]
I do have one in-law who I would rather keep in touch with than the family member they divorced, because that family member is horrible, and somewhat as a result has lost primary custody of the kids. But you know what - even in this case where the horrible family member was divorcing a nicer and more stable person, the toxic people went half her side, half his side, depending on who won them the most points in their internal family dynamics. It had NOTHING to do with the people getting divorced. It was all about family power plays.
Your mom and your friends sound great. Hang up on the rest of them, accept that they are disappointments to you and maybe in a year or two, some better cousins will reach out to you. At least you found out that they would pull this crap during a mostly amicable divorce, not during something more traumatic.
I'm guessing from your post that it hurts that your mom doesn't back you up more assertively, but she has probably seem this family drama before and has learned to keep her head down and just survive through it. Unless it's critical to your sanity, let her deal with them in her own way and save her energy for supporting you emotionally.
Good luck - you sound like you're making hard brave choices and the next few years will be full of discovery and your own chosen family of good people.
posted by viggorlijah at 12:34 AM on October 13, 2012 [3 favorites]
I suggest that you honestly own your part in the marriage somewhat more than you do in your post. You didn't love him, you weren't attracted to him, you settled for someone else's idea about who you should marry because he was "so *nice*" ... and then you seem surprised that he started drinking. I suspect that although it took you six years to give up the pretense, it didn't take him six years to realize that the woman he married was repulsed by his touch. I would drink too!
Because of my resentment toward him for these issues he could not address, my disinterest in him sexually turned to repulsion.
That's one of the saddest things I've read in a long time. He married you in good faith and found himself in a marriage with someone who resented everything about him, and an incredibly toxic living situation worsened because he couldn't fix himself under his partner's judgmental (rather than supportive) eye. What an impossible situation! Even your comments about marriage counseling are about his failure to change, rather than any part your ambivalence, settling, and complete and total rejection of him as a person may have played in the marriage.
I am not saying this to make you feel bad. But you don't seem to recognize how profoundly damaging your own behavior and attitudes can be to people and relationships. I mean, think about it if the tables had been turned. Picture the man of your dreams, the man in your fantasies. You love him, love his family, want to marry him, envision a rosy future, would do anything for him, feel so lucky to have found such a great partner ... and he pretends to love you, pretends to enjoy fucking you, pretends to want to marry you, because you are so *nice* to him! But in truth he finds you unattractive and fantasizes about finding sexual release elsewhere because your very skin is repulsive to him. He only settled for you because his family liked you. Now go ahead and spend six or seven years with him and see if you aren't drinking.
It sucks that your family is not supportive but I can't help but wonder whether you are presenting the full story here. It's worth considering that your family may be reacting to the way you talk about your marriage/divorce with them, putting the blame on your ex the way your post presents it rather than owning your part of it. But regardless, if they are really saying those things and excluding you from events then they sound awful and you are better off without them. Lean on your friends for support as you get through your divorce, but maybe also seek some therapy on your own to better understand how growing up in a judgmental family affected you and your choices, and how to have better self-awareness moving forward. If nothing else, you can learn from your marriage not to make decisions based on what you think other people think you should do.
posted by headnsouth at 6:09 AM on October 13, 2012 [7 favorites]
Because of my resentment toward him for these issues he could not address, my disinterest in him sexually turned to repulsion.
That's one of the saddest things I've read in a long time. He married you in good faith and found himself in a marriage with someone who resented everything about him, and an incredibly toxic living situation worsened because he couldn't fix himself under his partner's judgmental (rather than supportive) eye. What an impossible situation! Even your comments about marriage counseling are about his failure to change, rather than any part your ambivalence, settling, and complete and total rejection of him as a person may have played in the marriage.
I am not saying this to make you feel bad. But you don't seem to recognize how profoundly damaging your own behavior and attitudes can be to people and relationships. I mean, think about it if the tables had been turned. Picture the man of your dreams, the man in your fantasies. You love him, love his family, want to marry him, envision a rosy future, would do anything for him, feel so lucky to have found such a great partner ... and he pretends to love you, pretends to enjoy fucking you, pretends to want to marry you, because you are so *nice* to him! But in truth he finds you unattractive and fantasizes about finding sexual release elsewhere because your very skin is repulsive to him. He only settled for you because his family liked you. Now go ahead and spend six or seven years with him and see if you aren't drinking.
It sucks that your family is not supportive but I can't help but wonder whether you are presenting the full story here. It's worth considering that your family may be reacting to the way you talk about your marriage/divorce with them, putting the blame on your ex the way your post presents it rather than owning your part of it. But regardless, if they are really saying those things and excluding you from events then they sound awful and you are better off without them. Lean on your friends for support as you get through your divorce, but maybe also seek some therapy on your own to better understand how growing up in a judgmental family affected you and your choices, and how to have better self-awareness moving forward. If nothing else, you can learn from your marriage not to make decisions based on what you think other people think you should do.
posted by headnsouth at 6:09 AM on October 13, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm reconsidering this a little based on headnsouth's answer, as well as my own experience.
You wrote: My question is: How do I get my family to stop seeing me as the enemy and to support me?
I think there are two separate questions here, which I did not notice at first. Your family should not be blaming you. In the classic book When Bad Things Happen to Good People there's actually a chapter where a woman goes to see her parents when she's getting divorced and they start telling her all the things she did to bring it on herself. This behavior is all kinds of wrong and I still think your aunt and uncle are being ridiculous.
"Support" as such is another thing. In my opinion, there are very few people who can really offer you meaningful support at any given time. If you expect your immediate family to do it you will be disappointed because they may not have the wherewithal for whatever it is at that particular time. You have to find those one or two people who can really do it. I do think it's disappointing with your mother, but you recognize that she is just not the sort of person who can bring herself to come out swinging on your behalf. Maybe her form of support is just remaining in your life and basically on your side.
posted by BibiRose at 8:51 AM on October 13, 2012
You wrote: My question is: How do I get my family to stop seeing me as the enemy and to support me?
I think there are two separate questions here, which I did not notice at first. Your family should not be blaming you. In the classic book When Bad Things Happen to Good People there's actually a chapter where a woman goes to see her parents when she's getting divorced and they start telling her all the things she did to bring it on herself. This behavior is all kinds of wrong and I still think your aunt and uncle are being ridiculous.
"Support" as such is another thing. In my opinion, there are very few people who can really offer you meaningful support at any given time. If you expect your immediate family to do it you will be disappointed because they may not have the wherewithal for whatever it is at that particular time. You have to find those one or two people who can really do it. I do think it's disappointing with your mother, but you recognize that she is just not the sort of person who can bring herself to come out swinging on your behalf. Maybe her form of support is just remaining in your life and basically on your side.
posted by BibiRose at 8:51 AM on October 13, 2012
You can't really make up people's minds for them. It sounds like they all liked your ex, and they have no idea what the marriage was like for you, and they are the type to take sides rather than to take a step back.
Do you have individual relationships with these members of your family or did you mostly interact with them as a group? If you have individual relationships, you could try talking to them one-on-one, especially with those who have not gone on record with some of the more inflammatory statements above.
Ultimately, I think you have to just let go of the outcome. Your goal is to successfully separate from your ex, heal, and move on. To the degree that different family members are not helping you with this, don't be around them. Spend time with those who do support you. If the cost of ending a bad marriage is that some family members have sided against you, well, that's a cost worth paying - for your sake and his. Keep your head down and know you'll get through it and come out better on the other side.
posted by bunderful at 9:07 AM on October 13, 2012
Do you have individual relationships with these members of your family or did you mostly interact with them as a group? If you have individual relationships, you could try talking to them one-on-one, especially with those who have not gone on record with some of the more inflammatory statements above.
Ultimately, I think you have to just let go of the outcome. Your goal is to successfully separate from your ex, heal, and move on. To the degree that different family members are not helping you with this, don't be around them. Spend time with those who do support you. If the cost of ending a bad marriage is that some family members have sided against you, well, that's a cost worth paying - for your sake and his. Keep your head down and know you'll get through it and come out better on the other side.
posted by bunderful at 9:07 AM on October 13, 2012
I don't know if your ex-husband should definitely not ever spend time with your family. If you let him know that it bothers you and he does it anyway, that's not nice and I agree with other posters re: how to respond to it. But I don't agree with posters above that just the fact that he goes to their events is wrong. The family or your ex-husband not respecting your wishes and not going the extra step to make you feel welcome and accept you = bad and I think it is okay to spend time thinking about what they bring to your life--while staying open to reconciliation, being the more "adult" adult--but families can sometimes be fluid and they also have the right to decide who they would like at their events. It does not fit with an idea of a "nice family" that is always loyal to their blood relatives, but the idea of family and obligation may be different within a society and even within a family.
ianyou, but I am the child of divorced parents where one--the non-blood-related parent--spends much more time with the ex's family than the ex does. I don't think there is any resentment in that area, however, and the fact that there are kids may play into it.
posted by ramenopres at 10:18 AM on October 13, 2012
ianyou, but I am the child of divorced parents where one--the non-blood-related parent--spends much more time with the ex's family than the ex does. I don't think there is any resentment in that area, however, and the fact that there are kids may play into it.
posted by ramenopres at 10:18 AM on October 13, 2012
I went through and read your post more than once, OP, because I wanted to make sure I got all the facts straight. I think there are two things going on here, and both are related to, well, your maturity level.
First off, when I saw that your parents said you were "not allowed" to talk about your divorce, I couldn't believe it. Here you are, an adult, a formerly married woman, and they are treating you like a child?! If you need to vent, your family should be there, supporting you. That's what families DO, support each other in tough times!
So, in my head I thought you must be very young. I figured you didn't realize what you were getting into when she you married someone you weren't attracted to, because you felt pressured by your family.
And then I reread your question, and this stuck out to me: my sibling, cousins and I are in our 40's.
I still feel sympathetic that your family is not being more supportive, but I also agree with headandsouth that you need to take some responsibility for your relationship falling apart. You were an adult when you married this man. Did he know how you felt? Did you consider how he would feel, being married to someone who felt no attraction to him? Did you share your misgivings with your family before taking the plunge?
I can empathize with the horrible depression you felt. Gaining weight and literally building a pillow fort is not an adult way to cope with that depression, however. That may explain your family's response to your separation. If you do not learn to deal with your problems in a mature, adult manner, people WILL continue to treat you like a child.
If you, a woman in your thirties, married a man only because your family liked him, that is not his fault or theirs, that decision is on you. Own it. Let them know that you made a mistake, and that your ex agrees that the two of you were not a good match and are better apart.
As for your ex, if he developed a drinking problem, or if his drinking worsened after the marriage, that is on him. Addictive people can be very manipulative and adept at hiding their addictions. He may well have convinced your family that all the problems were your fault (even while he was telling you that he had your back), and because you did not share your apprehensions with anyone but your Mom, naturally the others are siding with him. To them he is the same man he always was, a generous person who helped the family. Meanwhile, they see you as this impulsive child because you have never given them any reason to think otherwise.
Now, even if I did act like a child, my family would support me emotionally, so that still doesn't excuse their behavior, IMHO.
But since yours isn't doing that, I fear the only way you're going to get your family to see the truth is to explain to them, as rationally and unemotionally as possible, what really happened in your marriage, taking responsibility for your own actions. Do not allow anyone to tell you, a grown woman, what you are allowed or not allowed to talk about.
You don't have to do that, of course; you can just say to hell with them and their lack of support and not associate with them any more if you want, and just get on with your life.
You can also ask your ex to stop going to family events out of respect for your feelings.
But no matter what you do, you are going to have to step up to the plate and assert yourself here. No tantrums, no hiding or running away.
Face this like the adult you are.
posted by misha at 9:21 PM on October 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
First off, when I saw that your parents said you were "not allowed" to talk about your divorce, I couldn't believe it. Here you are, an adult, a formerly married woman, and they are treating you like a child?! If you need to vent, your family should be there, supporting you. That's what families DO, support each other in tough times!
So, in my head I thought you must be very young. I figured you didn't realize what you were getting into when she you married someone you weren't attracted to, because you felt pressured by your family.
And then I reread your question, and this stuck out to me: my sibling, cousins and I are in our 40's.
I still feel sympathetic that your family is not being more supportive, but I also agree with headandsouth that you need to take some responsibility for your relationship falling apart. You were an adult when you married this man. Did he know how you felt? Did you consider how he would feel, being married to someone who felt no attraction to him? Did you share your misgivings with your family before taking the plunge?
I can empathize with the horrible depression you felt. Gaining weight and literally building a pillow fort is not an adult way to cope with that depression, however. That may explain your family's response to your separation. If you do not learn to deal with your problems in a mature, adult manner, people WILL continue to treat you like a child.
If you, a woman in your thirties, married a man only because your family liked him, that is not his fault or theirs, that decision is on you. Own it. Let them know that you made a mistake, and that your ex agrees that the two of you were not a good match and are better apart.
As for your ex, if he developed a drinking problem, or if his drinking worsened after the marriage, that is on him. Addictive people can be very manipulative and adept at hiding their addictions. He may well have convinced your family that all the problems were your fault (even while he was telling you that he had your back), and because you did not share your apprehensions with anyone but your Mom, naturally the others are siding with him. To them he is the same man he always was, a generous person who helped the family. Meanwhile, they see you as this impulsive child because you have never given them any reason to think otherwise.
Now, even if I did act like a child, my family would support me emotionally, so that still doesn't excuse their behavior, IMHO.
But since yours isn't doing that, I fear the only way you're going to get your family to see the truth is to explain to them, as rationally and unemotionally as possible, what really happened in your marriage, taking responsibility for your own actions. Do not allow anyone to tell you, a grown woman, what you are allowed or not allowed to talk about.
You don't have to do that, of course; you can just say to hell with them and their lack of support and not associate with them any more if you want, and just get on with your life.
You can also ask your ex to stop going to family events out of respect for your feelings.
But no matter what you do, you are going to have to step up to the plate and assert yourself here. No tantrums, no hiding or running away.
Face this like the adult you are.
posted by misha at 9:21 PM on October 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Because the truth of the matter is that you can't change them. You can only change yourself. Brava for making a hard choice. Now continue to be just as strong when considering your family.
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:15 PM on October 12, 2012 [65 favorites]