I have an expiration date.
July 4, 2012 4:31 PM Subscribe
Why do my relationships never pass the two-month mark?
First of all, I'm really sorry I keep posting questions like this. If things worked out, I wouldn't have to.
I've been dating for a little over a year now, with everything between that completely dead - as in, I hadn't even held hands witha guy until 2011. I've been on about 20 dates since then, and there have been two patterns to them. The first pattern is that not many people are generally attracted to me (on OKCupid's ratings scale, I'm somewhere on the low end of 2/5 stars; I don't get many messages, and I can see why I've only gotten to the meeting stage with 20 people), and a lot of my dates end with them not calling me, or with things petering out fast. It's rare that I'm the one who has to turn someone down.
The other pattern is that even when something promising does come of this, something where things are exclusive or at least ongoing, they break up with me out of the blue after one month or two. It's like clockwork: things will get past one month, and then suddenly they will end without warning. Literally, no warning at all. No fights, no shakiness, no awkward conversations; to the contrary, lots of positive signs, plans for the future, etc. Everyone is always completely stunned when I tell them. One time it happened two days after someone told me he loved me for the first time. The latest time, a few days ago, he was really affectionate as always in public and seemed enthusiastic about seeing me again.
Why does this keep happening to me, and how can I stop it? All I want is a long-term relationship, or really just something long-term -- I'd be fine with an extended hookup situation as long as I could be assured it wouldn't suddenly end. This is something I really want in my life. I want someone I love and who loves me and whom I can move in with and go out with and get to know. I don't think it's unreasonable as something to want, but apparently everyone I meet disagrees.
Relevant demographic details: I'm in my early 20s in New York, though everyone I know is in very long-term, very stable relationships or at least could be if they wanted to. I'm flat-chested and slightly overweight, but I can't afford to fix the former and I've tried for at least a decade to fix the latter and have only ever succeeded in keeping it to "slightly."
First of all, I'm really sorry I keep posting questions like this. If things worked out, I wouldn't have to.
I've been dating for a little over a year now, with everything between that completely dead - as in, I hadn't even held hands witha guy until 2011. I've been on about 20 dates since then, and there have been two patterns to them. The first pattern is that not many people are generally attracted to me (on OKCupid's ratings scale, I'm somewhere on the low end of 2/5 stars; I don't get many messages, and I can see why I've only gotten to the meeting stage with 20 people), and a lot of my dates end with them not calling me, or with things petering out fast. It's rare that I'm the one who has to turn someone down.
The other pattern is that even when something promising does come of this, something where things are exclusive or at least ongoing, they break up with me out of the blue after one month or two. It's like clockwork: things will get past one month, and then suddenly they will end without warning. Literally, no warning at all. No fights, no shakiness, no awkward conversations; to the contrary, lots of positive signs, plans for the future, etc. Everyone is always completely stunned when I tell them. One time it happened two days after someone told me he loved me for the first time. The latest time, a few days ago, he was really affectionate as always in public and seemed enthusiastic about seeing me again.
Why does this keep happening to me, and how can I stop it? All I want is a long-term relationship, or really just something long-term -- I'd be fine with an extended hookup situation as long as I could be assured it wouldn't suddenly end. This is something I really want in my life. I want someone I love and who loves me and whom I can move in with and go out with and get to know. I don't think it's unreasonable as something to want, but apparently everyone I meet disagrees.
Relevant demographic details: I'm in my early 20s in New York, though everyone I know is in very long-term, very stable relationships or at least could be if they wanted to. I'm flat-chested and slightly overweight, but I can't afford to fix the former and I've tried for at least a decade to fix the latter and have only ever succeeded in keeping it to "slightly."
Personally, I don't see this as abnormal, especially with online dating.
Most people who online date have more than a few options and cycle through them pretty fast. From what I hear, you usually have to go on many many date to get one that sticks for more then a few months.
I suggest that you do the same as them: date many people and filter the ones that don't wow you. Spend your time deciding if you like them, instead of trying to get them to like you.
Bonus tip: Many of the thin, gorgeous, big breasted, women I know have the exact same dating issues that you do. It's the nature of the dating medium, not your body.
posted by Shouraku at 4:41 PM on July 4, 2012 [8 favorites]
Most people who online date have more than a few options and cycle through them pretty fast. From what I hear, you usually have to go on many many date to get one that sticks for more then a few months.
I suggest that you do the same as them: date many people and filter the ones that don't wow you. Spend your time deciding if you like them, instead of trying to get them to like you.
Bonus tip: Many of the thin, gorgeous, big breasted, women I know have the exact same dating issues that you do. It's the nature of the dating medium, not your body.
posted by Shouraku at 4:41 PM on July 4, 2012 [8 favorites]
The absolute worst thing you can do is obsess. Go out and live your life, it will make you more appealing as a dating partner. People can smell neediness and desperation from miles away. Your experiences aren't unusual, either. You've only been dating a year. Give yourself some time, and enjoy the process.
posted by parrot_person at 4:46 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by parrot_person at 4:46 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why does this keep happening to me?
Well but this isn't something that keeps happening to you - that's dating. That's pretty much... how it works? (And FWIW I think 20 dates in a crowded market like NYC is statistically excellent. I also think you're being really hard on yourself with the "I'm flat-chested and slightly overweight" - you sound like a normal person to me.)
and how can I stop it?
The goal for everyone interested in a long term relationship is to "stop it." Dating is completely a numbers game. I think you're doing great for your first year of dating, to be honest. It's okay to want a steady long term relationship, but you need to also understand that you are going to have to date more people to find someone in their early 20s who is also looking for a long term thing.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:47 PM on July 4, 2012
Well but this isn't something that keeps happening to you - that's dating. That's pretty much... how it works? (And FWIW I think 20 dates in a crowded market like NYC is statistically excellent. I also think you're being really hard on yourself with the "I'm flat-chested and slightly overweight" - you sound like a normal person to me.)
and how can I stop it?
The goal for everyone interested in a long term relationship is to "stop it." Dating is completely a numbers game. I think you're doing great for your first year of dating, to be honest. It's okay to want a steady long term relationship, but you need to also understand that you are going to have to date more people to find someone in their early 20s who is also looking for a long term thing.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:47 PM on July 4, 2012
As Dan Savage repeatedly says, every relationship ends until you're in the one that doesn't. Two months is right around the time when you begin to evaluate longer-term compatibility (or the lack of it). I think it's pretty common to break things off around that point if it's not gelling. So I also agree with others and Dan that what you're saying sounds totally par for the course.
How can you stop it? I don't know that you should want to stop it if one or both of you aren't feeling it, but some common reasons I know of breakups around that time period usually involve: disparate levels of interest in the relationship/desires regarding time investment, disparate social or private interests, and/or a sudden shift to "their true selves" i.e. shifting earlier behavioral or conversational patterns.
I also think that if your partner senses that you're more interested in any relationship than in a relationship with them, they will feel objectified and rightly bail. I obviously have absolutely no idea if that's happening here, but it has happened to me before.
Anyway, all of that's general. These are the questions that popped into my head while reading your post (and you do not have to answer, but I'd consider these to be important factors in pre- or post-evaluating relationship longevity):
1) How often in these one-to-two months are you seeing these people? (I think overseeing early on tends to lead to burnout.)
2) For what duration of time on each date? (Ditto.)
3) Has there been discussion about or actual having of sex? (Obvious compatibility breaking point.)
4) How much contact do you have when not actively on or planning a date? Ratio of initiation of contact? (Not-so-obvious but often big compatibility breaking point.)
4) Define "plans for the future" - do you mean what to do a week from now, or number of children? (Too grandiose of plans early on usually doesn't end up working out.)
posted by vegartanipla at 5:00 PM on July 4, 2012
How can you stop it? I don't know that you should want to stop it if one or both of you aren't feeling it, but some common reasons I know of breakups around that time period usually involve: disparate levels of interest in the relationship/desires regarding time investment, disparate social or private interests, and/or a sudden shift to "their true selves" i.e. shifting earlier behavioral or conversational patterns.
I also think that if your partner senses that you're more interested in any relationship than in a relationship with them, they will feel objectified and rightly bail. I obviously have absolutely no idea if that's happening here, but it has happened to me before.
Anyway, all of that's general. These are the questions that popped into my head while reading your post (and you do not have to answer, but I'd consider these to be important factors in pre- or post-evaluating relationship longevity):
1) How often in these one-to-two months are you seeing these people? (I think overseeing early on tends to lead to burnout.)
2) For what duration of time on each date? (Ditto.)
3) Has there been discussion about or actual having of sex? (Obvious compatibility breaking point.)
4) How much contact do you have when not actively on or planning a date? Ratio of initiation of contact? (Not-so-obvious but often big compatibility breaking point.)
4) Define "plans for the future" - do you mean what to do a week from now, or number of children? (Too grandiose of plans early on usually doesn't end up working out.)
posted by vegartanipla at 5:00 PM on July 4, 2012
Response by poster: To answer some questions:
* Dating lots of people really isn't an option for me. Getting to 20 in the first place was like pulling teeth. (And I don't think it's excellent, considering the lack of results, but even not considering that, most women from what I read get upwards of 20 messages per day. That doesn't happen to me.)
* I generally date older people and not other people in their early 20s, which is fine, I prefer it anyway. Most people my age aren't even interested, presumably because they can find hotter, more carefree people so easily.
* vegartanipla's questions:
1) and 2) Once or twice a week; the dates usually either last several hours or, in some cases, turn into multiple-day things if they stay over.
3) Yes, actual having, generally within the first few dates. This is even worse; it means every time something doesn't work out my number is run up that much more, and though I don't care about this I know that lots of guys do.
4) It's varied. With what I'm talking about in my original post it's usually to the point where I can just Gchat them like I would a friend.
5) What to do on our next date. Where we'd like to go eventually, things we'd like to do, etc. Children aren't even close to being on my radar right now.
posted by dekathelon at 5:06 PM on July 4, 2012
* Dating lots of people really isn't an option for me. Getting to 20 in the first place was like pulling teeth. (And I don't think it's excellent, considering the lack of results, but even not considering that, most women from what I read get upwards of 20 messages per day. That doesn't happen to me.)
* I generally date older people and not other people in their early 20s, which is fine, I prefer it anyway. Most people my age aren't even interested, presumably because they can find hotter, more carefree people so easily.
* vegartanipla's questions:
1) and 2) Once or twice a week; the dates usually either last several hours or, in some cases, turn into multiple-day things if they stay over.
3) Yes, actual having, generally within the first few dates. This is even worse; it means every time something doesn't work out my number is run up that much more, and though I don't care about this I know that lots of guys do.
4) It's varied. With what I'm talking about in my original post it's usually to the point where I can just Gchat them like I would a friend.
5) What to do on our next date. Where we'd like to go eventually, things we'd like to do, etc. Children aren't even close to being on my radar right now.
posted by dekathelon at 5:06 PM on July 4, 2012
Did you ask them why? Even though people sometimes can't or won't verbalize the true reasons, it's helpful. But be cool and mature about it and don't give off any "Let's please get back together" vibes.
posted by acidic at 5:15 PM on July 4, 2012
posted by acidic at 5:15 PM on July 4, 2012
Let's look at it this way -- would you rather have a series of very short-term relationships with people who weren't right for you, or would you rather keep working toward the long-term relationship with a person that's actually your best match? Value yourself enough to seek out a relationship not because you just want a relationship -- but because you're looking to be with someone that's sincerely a good fit. Maybe reframing your previous two-monthers as experiences with great people who weren't good fits will help move you in a different direction.
posted by Hello Darling at 5:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Hello Darling at 5:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Are you dating at all outside of OKC? OKC does have a lot of the "grass is greener" mentality, probably because the medium itself leads to near-constant exposure to new people. It's sort of like online shopping that way--you just keep clicking away. If OKC is your only source of dates, I would make an effort to look outside of it. There are many previous posts suggesting where else to look.
Also, you're in your early twenties. It sounds like a cliche, but you have sooo much time. I spent 20-25 floating around too, with no long-term relationships, and now am with an awesome person who just...fits. It's worth waiting for, and though there were times when I felt frustrated and fed up, parts of being single were a lot of fun. Take advantage of them.
One last thing--re:running up your number. I've always been of the strong opinion that any dude that lets your "number" define your relationship is often not worth spending too much time with. Also, in all my years of dating, I've never had a guy ask what my number was. Maybe others have had vastly differing experiences, but that's mine. If you don't care about your number, then don't. It truly has nothing to do with them (as long as you have safer sex/get tested regularly, of course.)
posted by dysh at 5:57 PM on July 4, 2012
Also, you're in your early twenties. It sounds like a cliche, but you have sooo much time. I spent 20-25 floating around too, with no long-term relationships, and now am with an awesome person who just...fits. It's worth waiting for, and though there were times when I felt frustrated and fed up, parts of being single were a lot of fun. Take advantage of them.
One last thing--re:running up your number. I've always been of the strong opinion that any dude that lets your "number" define your relationship is often not worth spending too much time with. Also, in all my years of dating, I've never had a guy ask what my number was. Maybe others have had vastly differing experiences, but that's mine. If you don't care about your number, then don't. It truly has nothing to do with them (as long as you have safer sex/get tested regularly, of course.)
posted by dysh at 5:57 PM on July 4, 2012
Honestly, given how down you are on yourself it sounds like you rule yourself out long before anyone else does. Do you know if you're projecting an air of insecurity or desperation? I mean re: "20 messages a day"--you know that's the hot hot hawt chicks, right? When I was on OKC I never got close to that amount, but still had nice dates with attractive people. Also this:
3) Yes, actual having, generally within the first few dates. This is even worse; it means every time something doesn't work out my number is run up that much more, and though I don't care about this I know that lots of guys do.
What is this? Sure, some assholes do. Lots of guys don't. You are taking every possible negative about yourself and amplifying it into something really important. Look, if you do not believe that you are awesome, then nobody else will either. 90% of successful dating is the ability to act like you are so fucking awesome that everyone is lucky to be with you.
posted by Anonymous at 6:04 PM on July 4, 2012
3) Yes, actual having, generally within the first few dates. This is even worse; it means every time something doesn't work out my number is run up that much more, and though I don't care about this I know that lots of guys do.
What is this? Sure, some assholes do. Lots of guys don't. You are taking every possible negative about yourself and amplifying it into something really important. Look, if you do not believe that you are awesome, then nobody else will either. 90% of successful dating is the ability to act like you are so fucking awesome that everyone is lucky to be with you.
posted by Anonymous at 6:04 PM on July 4, 2012
Mod note: Tough love rarely as helpful as you think it is. Answer helpfully or move on, thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:29 PM on July 4, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:29 PM on July 4, 2012 [7 favorites]
20 messages a day? No. I'm an attractive woman. I met my husband after less than two months of OKC dating, and he is also very attractive. I got maybe 5 a day TOPS, and that was prime "time to find a dude" OKC time. If women are getting 20 a day it's because they list that they are interested in casual sex and they are, like, a TEN on the scale of beauty for a majority of American men.
That said, I know plenty of attractive, intelligent men and women, my husband included, who spent a long time on OKC before finding a LTR. Many have been at it for years. This is normal.
I think, as others have said focusing less on OMG FIND FOREVER RIGHT NOW will help a lot. Focus on fulfilling other parts of your life, and someone will come along and fit right in. Stop obsessing.
posted by two lights above the sea at 6:57 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
That said, I know plenty of attractive, intelligent men and women, my husband included, who spent a long time on OKC before finding a LTR. Many have been at it for years. This is normal.
I think, as others have said focusing less on OMG FIND FOREVER RIGHT NOW will help a lot. Focus on fulfilling other parts of your life, and someone will come along and fit right in. Stop obsessing.
posted by two lights above the sea at 6:57 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, stop doing the "let's have a three-day sleepover" thing until you are past this two-or-three-month point. That's total burnout material, and also makes you way, way more liable to get overly emotional ad attached early on.
posted by two lights above the sea at 6:59 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by two lights above the sea at 6:59 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
I feel like it's just bad luck. It doesn't have to be something about you; people suddenly flake out for all sorts of reasons. I think having 20 dates from the internet that you actually met is kind of a lot. Most people I know on OKC haven't gone on anywhere near that many dates (or, as far as I know, get anywhere near 20 messages/day).
Also, I doubt all your friends could be in relationships if they wanted to be. It's difficult to find one. I know what it's like to feel like you're the only single person for miles around though.
Also also, I don't think I am especially attractive and I still managed to find a wonderful and handsome boyfriend. And absolutely nobody has ever cared how many sexual partners I've had. (Heck, if anything, I bet people have wished I had more.)
posted by mlle valentine at 7:03 PM on July 4, 2012
Also, I doubt all your friends could be in relationships if they wanted to be. It's difficult to find one. I know what it's like to feel like you're the only single person for miles around though.
Also also, I don't think I am especially attractive and I still managed to find a wonderful and handsome boyfriend. And absolutely nobody has ever cared how many sexual partners I've had. (Heck, if anything, I bet people have wished I had more.)
posted by mlle valentine at 7:03 PM on July 4, 2012
Your initial question was:
Why do my relationships never pass the two-month mark?
They don't "never" - you've been dating for a year. Within that year, you've already had a two-month relationship with someone. That's a fantastic outcome.
I also note that relationship ended relatively recently - like a month or six weeks ago? Maybe this accounts for your spectacularly depressed attitude about yourself, so maybe it's a phase, but in general people prefer to hang with people who like themselves.
Nobody who isn't massively insecure or a complete dipshit cares about how many people you've shagged. Were you genuinely attracted to all of these people or were you just trying to make them like you more? If it's the former, it's all good; if it's the latter, that bears thinking about.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
Why do my relationships never pass the two-month mark?
They don't "never" - you've been dating for a year. Within that year, you've already had a two-month relationship with someone. That's a fantastic outcome.
I also note that relationship ended relatively recently - like a month or six weeks ago? Maybe this accounts for your spectacularly depressed attitude about yourself, so maybe it's a phase, but in general people prefer to hang with people who like themselves.
Nobody who isn't massively insecure or a complete dipshit cares about how many people you've shagged. Were you genuinely attracted to all of these people or were you just trying to make them like you more? If it's the former, it's all good; if it's the latter, that bears thinking about.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
What dysh and schroedinger said. Nth.
For added perspective on the weight of consensus about a "number", see the responses in http://ask.metafilter.com/219241/If-its-a-white-lie-we-may-need-some-bleach
That said, if it makes you unhappy in retrospect to have had sex in relationships that don't make it past the 2 month mark, consider putting sex on hold for a while in your next relationship. Just make it clear early on what your boundary/timeline is (and what sexy things you ARE up for meanwhile), so it doesn't get interpreted as lack of interest or "The Rules"-style head games.
Also, breast size is not something that need a "fix", unless it's distressing YOU independently of what anyone else is (presumed to be) thinking. You deserve the man who appreciates the genuine you as a hottie in body, mind, and everything else.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 7:52 PM on July 4, 2012
For added perspective on the weight of consensus about a "number", see the responses in http://ask.metafilter.com/219241/If-its-a-white-lie-we-may-need-some-bleach
That said, if it makes you unhappy in retrospect to have had sex in relationships that don't make it past the 2 month mark, consider putting sex on hold for a while in your next relationship. Just make it clear early on what your boundary/timeline is (and what sexy things you ARE up for meanwhile), so it doesn't get interpreted as lack of interest or "The Rules"-style head games.
Also, breast size is not something that need a "fix", unless it's distressing YOU independently of what anyone else is (presumed to be) thinking. You deserve the man who appreciates the genuine you as a hottie in body, mind, and everything else.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 7:52 PM on July 4, 2012
What's with the body hating? Have you thought about jogging or something? That's cheap once you get buy the shoes, I don't know of too many other obstacles.
I ask because you're too hard on yourself, and I can't imagine that doesn't push people away. Exercise has a great way of eliminating negative emotions and making you a more positive, happy individual. I think this is a pre req for a happy relationship (attitude, not exercise). But seriously, you say something negative about yourself in all of your posts, time for a shift. Maybe meditation would help, too.
posted by oceanjesse at 8:18 PM on July 4, 2012
I ask because you're too hard on yourself, and I can't imagine that doesn't push people away. Exercise has a great way of eliminating negative emotions and making you a more positive, happy individual. I think this is a pre req for a happy relationship (attitude, not exercise). But seriously, you say something negative about yourself in all of your posts, time for a shift. Maybe meditation would help, too.
posted by oceanjesse at 8:18 PM on July 4, 2012
I'm in my late thirties now and if there's something I could tell my early twenties self it's this: MOST MEN IN THEIR EARLY TWENTIES AREN'T READY TO COMMIT...stop looking for a ltr and just have fun.
I met my husband when I was 28... I'm hoping we'll have more than 50 years together...I really didn't need to spend my early 20s moping about not having a ltr..
posted by bananafish at 10:51 PM on July 4, 2012
I met my husband when I was 28... I'm hoping we'll have more than 50 years together...I really didn't need to spend my early 20s moping about not having a ltr..
posted by bananafish at 10:51 PM on July 4, 2012
I have heard that some immature guys rush into relationships--start with the commitment/marriage/babies talk really soon, say I love you really soon--then realize what they've done, flake/chicken out and bail. That may be what you are running into here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:59 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:59 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
bananafish: stop looking for a ltr and just have fun.
That's my thought, too. The pursuit of fun is not all you'll ever do, but trying (and sometimes failing) to have fun helps you learn what's actually good for you. It's important because, at your age, you don't really know what you need out of a relationship. You have a mix of ideas about it, drawn from what you've read or seen in movies and magazines or *think* you've seen in your friends and relatives, but a lot of what you think you know is wrong.
I want someone I love and who loves me and whom I can move in with and go out with and get to know. I don't think it's unreasonable as something to want, but apparently everyone I meet disagrees.
It's not that it's unreasonable to want this sort of thing, but it is unreasonable to expect it right off the bat. You may be putting your partners in a position where they sense that they've got to check certain boxes on your list, i.e. talking about plans for the future, saying 'I love you,' etc. just so they can continue the experiment... and then they realize it's all moving way too fast. The future you long for may very well happen some day, but in the meanwhile you need to find ways to be okay with the present.
posted by jon1270 at 3:48 AM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
That's my thought, too. The pursuit of fun is not all you'll ever do, but trying (and sometimes failing) to have fun helps you learn what's actually good for you. It's important because, at your age, you don't really know what you need out of a relationship. You have a mix of ideas about it, drawn from what you've read or seen in movies and magazines or *think* you've seen in your friends and relatives, but a lot of what you think you know is wrong.
I want someone I love and who loves me and whom I can move in with and go out with and get to know. I don't think it's unreasonable as something to want, but apparently everyone I meet disagrees.
It's not that it's unreasonable to want this sort of thing, but it is unreasonable to expect it right off the bat. You may be putting your partners in a position where they sense that they've got to check certain boxes on your list, i.e. talking about plans for the future, saying 'I love you,' etc. just so they can continue the experiment... and then they realize it's all moving way too fast. The future you long for may very well happen some day, but in the meanwhile you need to find ways to be okay with the present.
posted by jon1270 at 3:48 AM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wonder maybe if some of this is because you were making plans for the future after the one or two month mark of online dating.
This is absolutely not about your body. People who meet you and never see you again? Maybe. People who go on repeated dates and are enthused about seeing you? They obviously find you attractive, or they would not have come back. Get it out of your head that this is about your body.
Also, for a reference scale: I also used OKCupid as a prime dating resource when I was thin, with large breasts, in my early twenties, and pretty high on the attractiveness scale. I got nowhere even close to twenty messages a day. Five a day was more common, and not all of those were people who even met my match criteria. ALSO, I did a lot of the messaging of guys too, in order to get dates. Who says they're the only ones who get to go choosing? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Also, I didn't get past the two month mark with an OKCupid date either. I am now in a long-term, happy, committed relationship with someone. I checked our OKCupid compatibility, though, and it was shockingly low, due to our different answers on questions. I never would have gone out with him if I'd met him on OKCupid.
Personally, I think OKCupid is not your best source for dates, and this may have something to do with the "expiration date" thing. Too often, people are dating not because they really click, but because they think they /should/ click, or it's logical to click. The people seem reasonable to date. And so people keep going on dates, because, well, the other person's attractive, aren't they? They get along with you, don't they? Share many of the same interests? Sure...but again, often, no spark.
I think you'll be better served by meeting people in person, and this may help you to push past the barrier. I also think one year is very low to be predicting trends.
posted by corb at 6:41 AM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is absolutely not about your body. People who meet you and never see you again? Maybe. People who go on repeated dates and are enthused about seeing you? They obviously find you attractive, or they would not have come back. Get it out of your head that this is about your body.
Also, for a reference scale: I also used OKCupid as a prime dating resource when I was thin, with large breasts, in my early twenties, and pretty high on the attractiveness scale. I got nowhere even close to twenty messages a day. Five a day was more common, and not all of those were people who even met my match criteria. ALSO, I did a lot of the messaging of guys too, in order to get dates. Who says they're the only ones who get to go choosing? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Also, I didn't get past the two month mark with an OKCupid date either. I am now in a long-term, happy, committed relationship with someone. I checked our OKCupid compatibility, though, and it was shockingly low, due to our different answers on questions. I never would have gone out with him if I'd met him on OKCupid.
Personally, I think OKCupid is not your best source for dates, and this may have something to do with the "expiration date" thing. Too often, people are dating not because they really click, but because they think they /should/ click, or it's logical to click. The people seem reasonable to date. And so people keep going on dates, because, well, the other person's attractive, aren't they? They get along with you, don't they? Share many of the same interests? Sure...but again, often, no spark.
I think you'll be better served by meeting people in person, and this may help you to push past the barrier. I also think one year is very low to be predicting trends.
posted by corb at 6:41 AM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
(And I don't think it's excellent, considering the lack of results, but even not considering that, most women from what I read get upwards of 20 messages per day. That doesn't happen to me.)
You gotta stop comparing yourself to an imaginary idea of what other peoples' lives are like, because it just isn't accurate. I never, never got that many messages. I also haven't had a relationship last longer than yours in like three years. And it isn't because of how I look, or because those guys were jerks, or any of that. I just didn't click with them, or they didn't click with me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:01 AM on July 5, 2012
You gotta stop comparing yourself to an imaginary idea of what other peoples' lives are like, because it just isn't accurate. I never, never got that many messages. I also haven't had a relationship last longer than yours in like three years. And it isn't because of how I look, or because those guys were jerks, or any of that. I just didn't click with them, or they didn't click with me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:01 AM on July 5, 2012
It's totally possible that this is just normal dating. However, there is one possibility that I want to address. It seems to me from your posting history that you really struggle with your self-esteem, and that you generally have mostly negative things to say about yourself. This extends even to this post, where you include some unnecessary body hatred and also declare that your friends could be in stable relationships if they wanted to, unlike you. Are you bringing this attitude into your relationships? Because that could be what's doing you in. If a guy is saying "hey, dekathelon is pretty great," and you keep saying, "no, actually, I suck," eventually you're going to persuade him. Two months actually seems like the amount of time it would take me to go from "well, maybe she's having a bad day today" to "she just doesn't seem to like herself very much."
So I guess my suggestion is working, in therapy or otherwise, on getting yourself to a place where you think you're worth hanging out with for more than two months. Once you did that, you'll be able to find someone else who agrees. Good luck!
posted by Ragged Richard at 10:07 AM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
So I guess my suggestion is working, in therapy or otherwise, on getting yourself to a place where you think you're worth hanging out with for more than two months. Once you did that, you'll be able to find someone else who agrees. Good luck!
posted by Ragged Richard at 10:07 AM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hang on, this is a bit lengthy.
1) Don't compare yourself to what you've read. I'm attractive, I wasn't getting 20 messages a day on any site except PoF. I would stop looking for validation in the number of messages you get or people you meet. Would you really rather be getting messages from guys you probably don't want to meet? Or do you feel obligated to go out with guys who message you (who you might not be all that enthused about) because you feel you lack options?
2) Before I met my current boyfriend (during a period on Match where I got ONE message... and it wasn't even from him), every single date I went on or short term relationship went fizz-bang early on (sometimes while the date was in progress). That's dating. Around two or three months is when you start assessing potential. Affection, enthusiasm, plans are all things that can be faked or changed. If you really believed that each relationship had absolute potential to go further, either you are reading these guys wrong or you are incredibly unlucky. Either of those is possible. Do any of these guys have something in common besides you?
3) And this varies, but I generally tended to avoid anyone who was "looking for a relationship." I wanted to date someone and hopefully a relationship would evolve from that. Every time I went into it with the expectation (on either side) that it would go somewhere I felt like it didn't evolve organically and nope, didn't last.
4) Having sex and therefore increasing your "number" is only "worse" because you are worried that some guy in the future might care? No one has ever even ASKED me about my number. I think you should just enjoy having sex.
5) What do they say when it ends? Is it always the same reason? Is it a reason that feels flimsy? Or do they tend to just fade?
posted by sm1tten at 10:40 AM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
1) Don't compare yourself to what you've read. I'm attractive, I wasn't getting 20 messages a day on any site except PoF. I would stop looking for validation in the number of messages you get or people you meet. Would you really rather be getting messages from guys you probably don't want to meet? Or do you feel obligated to go out with guys who message you (who you might not be all that enthused about) because you feel you lack options?
2) Before I met my current boyfriend (during a period on Match where I got ONE message... and it wasn't even from him), every single date I went on or short term relationship went fizz-bang early on (sometimes while the date was in progress). That's dating. Around two or three months is when you start assessing potential. Affection, enthusiasm, plans are all things that can be faked or changed. If you really believed that each relationship had absolute potential to go further, either you are reading these guys wrong or you are incredibly unlucky. Either of those is possible. Do any of these guys have something in common besides you?
3) And this varies, but I generally tended to avoid anyone who was "looking for a relationship." I wanted to date someone and hopefully a relationship would evolve from that. Every time I went into it with the expectation (on either side) that it would go somewhere I felt like it didn't evolve organically and nope, didn't last.
4) Having sex and therefore increasing your "number" is only "worse" because you are worried that some guy in the future might care? No one has ever even ASKED me about my number. I think you should just enjoy having sex.
5) What do they say when it ends? Is it always the same reason? Is it a reason that feels flimsy? Or do they tend to just fade?
posted by sm1tten at 10:40 AM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
So online dating is like this:
90% of the time you go on just one date, and never hear from the person again
You go on 1-2 more dates with the 10% of the people you meet.
Out of those 10%, you continue to see 10% of the person for 1-2 months
1-2 months is generally how long it takes for someone to decide if they want to be with someone for something more long term. They date you, get to know you, and then decide that you are not the one they want to be with. The thing is, there is no specific reason for this, it could be that they are not as attracted to you as they hoped to be, that they are not over their ex, that your views on life aren't compatible, that you chew too loud after all, that they decide they don't want the responsibility of being in a relationship, etc.
One of these days a guy will get to know you for 1-2 months, and instead of breaking up with you, he will think you're the most awesome person ever and will want to spend all their free time with you. It's just that you haven't met that guy yet. My expiration date for relationships was always 1 month. And it was always the same situation as yours - the guy seems eager to spend more time with me, makes plans for several weeks/months in advance, etc, and then out of the blue just says they're not feeling it. Don't give up, because if these guys don't want to be with you, you definitely don't want to be with them. So try to date a few people at once so you are not as hurt when one of them breaks it off.
And be truly honest with yourself: do you really like the guys you're dating? Enough to want them as a partner in your life long term? Or are you dating them for now just because you have no one better to date at the moment and they seem OK? If it's the latter, then end it with them before they get a chance to end it with you. Dating is about finding the right person for you, not just about hoping to find someone who is willing to stick around.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 2:12 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
90% of the time you go on just one date, and never hear from the person again
You go on 1-2 more dates with the 10% of the people you meet.
Out of those 10%, you continue to see 10% of the person for 1-2 months
1-2 months is generally how long it takes for someone to decide if they want to be with someone for something more long term. They date you, get to know you, and then decide that you are not the one they want to be with. The thing is, there is no specific reason for this, it could be that they are not as attracted to you as they hoped to be, that they are not over their ex, that your views on life aren't compatible, that you chew too loud after all, that they decide they don't want the responsibility of being in a relationship, etc.
One of these days a guy will get to know you for 1-2 months, and instead of breaking up with you, he will think you're the most awesome person ever and will want to spend all their free time with you. It's just that you haven't met that guy yet. My expiration date for relationships was always 1 month. And it was always the same situation as yours - the guy seems eager to spend more time with me, makes plans for several weeks/months in advance, etc, and then out of the blue just says they're not feeling it. Don't give up, because if these guys don't want to be with you, you definitely don't want to be with them. So try to date a few people at once so you are not as hurt when one of them breaks it off.
And be truly honest with yourself: do you really like the guys you're dating? Enough to want them as a partner in your life long term? Or are you dating them for now just because you have no one better to date at the moment and they seem OK? If it's the latter, then end it with them before they get a chance to end it with you. Dating is about finding the right person for you, not just about hoping to find someone who is willing to stick around.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 2:12 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Some responses, and sorry if this comes off as thread sitting:
I mean, what seems like body hatred seems very realistic to me, just being aware of what guys' standards are. One post about online dating had something about the site being full of non-thin and/or flat-chested people who I guess look like me, and of people to whom both applied, their comment was "God, did you torch a village in a past life or something?" You have to understand that this is really how people think. And about being concerned about my number - there's a question along the lines of "If your partner told you that he/she'd had 14 sexual partners, would that seem like a lot?" Almost everyone's answer to this is "I guess." (As opposed to two separate "no" answers: "that seems like an average number" and "no, that's nothing.") There is actual empirical evidence that people actually do care about this stuff, and not just, like, troglodytes.
I've gotten the gamut of things said to me when it ends, from the standard "I'm just not feeling it" to really hurtful things that would probably be very identifiable if I repeated. I mean, there's flimsy bullshit reasons and fading too, but that tends to happen earlier on.
If it's gotten past the five-or-so date point, then yes, I do really like these people. I might have reservations, but if they're severe then it wouldn't have gotten that far. But I do a lot of very harsh filtering of messages, so this isn't surprising.
posted by dekathelon at 5:13 PM on July 5, 2012
I mean, what seems like body hatred seems very realistic to me, just being aware of what guys' standards are. One post about online dating had something about the site being full of non-thin and/or flat-chested people who I guess look like me, and of people to whom both applied, their comment was "God, did you torch a village in a past life or something?" You have to understand that this is really how people think. And about being concerned about my number - there's a question along the lines of "If your partner told you that he/she'd had 14 sexual partners, would that seem like a lot?" Almost everyone's answer to this is "I guess." (As opposed to two separate "no" answers: "that seems like an average number" and "no, that's nothing.") There is actual empirical evidence that people actually do care about this stuff, and not just, like, troglodytes.
I've gotten the gamut of things said to me when it ends, from the standard "I'm just not feeling it" to really hurtful things that would probably be very identifiable if I repeated. I mean, there's flimsy bullshit reasons and fading too, but that tends to happen earlier on.
If it's gotten past the five-or-so date point, then yes, I do really like these people. I might have reservations, but if they're severe then it wouldn't have gotten that far. But I do a lot of very harsh filtering of messages, so this isn't surprising.
posted by dekathelon at 5:13 PM on July 5, 2012
You have to understand that this is really how people think.
I think you have to understand that that may be how people think when confronted with the faceless non-thin non-big-breasted spectre, but in real life people think and act very differently. You're thinking "Oh God, my small breasts". He's thinking "Look at that cute nose/great legs/gorgeous eyes/amazing smile".
"I guess" is hardly the same as "Oh my God, that horrible slut, that's disgusting." Again, details about yourself that you are immediately deeming to be important that whomever you're meeting will care a hell of a lot less about once they actually meet you and are getting to know you.
I was thinner and objectively more attractive when I was in my early twenties. Now I look at those pictures of me and I'm like "Damn, I looked pretty good" but at the time I thought I was ugly and awful, and could find a million things wrong with myself and my body. This plainly translated to the dating scene, because I did not get much attention from anybody.
When I started dating again in my mid-twenties, I was fatter, more muscular (in the stereotypically bad "bulky" way), and had more issues with acne. But I was also entering a period of my life where I decided to stop giving two fucks about what anyone thought about me and approached dating the same way. I was open and interested in people but not desperate for their attention, and I approached everything very casually. This resulted in an awful lot of attention, both in real life and from online dating. Believe me, I was pretty skeptical of the "Confidence is sexy" mantra until I figured out it actually worked.
I say all this because I used exactly the same words you're using to describe myself when I was into all the body-hating thing. I was like "Objectively, people prefer women with smaller waists, and nicer butts, and perkier boobs, and better hair, and and and and", and you know what? That was all true! Objectively, Random Internet Person, when confronted with the faceless, nameless choice of "Perky Boobs" vs. "Not-Perky Boobs" they chose perky boobs every time! But I am not a nameless pair of not-perky boobs. I'm an actual person, and when they read the profile and met me they were meeting a person, not a pair of boobs. And it was the person that drew them in, not the tits.
Finally: you're insisting dating is objective. Your basic premise could not be more wrong. Dating and romance are the least objective and rational areas of human interaction. Love and lust are inspired by so many more facets of you than just a few of your body parts--but in order for those facets to shine, you need to believe that they're important. If you can think of yourself as hot, or even just fake it, and go into every date with the attitude that the other person is lucky to be seeing you, you'll find your attractiveness to the person will increase by leaps and bounds. But you're not only making the mistake of defining yourself around a couple traits, you're defining them in a way that you lose every time. And I guarantee that your lack of self-confidence is shining through your profile and your interactions with your dates. Insecurity and a "LOVE ME PLEASE GOD LOVE ME" attitude is a major boner-killer for men and women.
posted by Anonymous at 5:57 PM on July 5, 2012
I think you have to understand that that may be how people think when confronted with the faceless non-thin non-big-breasted spectre, but in real life people think and act very differently. You're thinking "Oh God, my small breasts". He's thinking "Look at that cute nose/great legs/gorgeous eyes/amazing smile".
"I guess" is hardly the same as "Oh my God, that horrible slut, that's disgusting." Again, details about yourself that you are immediately deeming to be important that whomever you're meeting will care a hell of a lot less about once they actually meet you and are getting to know you.
I was thinner and objectively more attractive when I was in my early twenties. Now I look at those pictures of me and I'm like "Damn, I looked pretty good" but at the time I thought I was ugly and awful, and could find a million things wrong with myself and my body. This plainly translated to the dating scene, because I did not get much attention from anybody.
When I started dating again in my mid-twenties, I was fatter, more muscular (in the stereotypically bad "bulky" way), and had more issues with acne. But I was also entering a period of my life where I decided to stop giving two fucks about what anyone thought about me and approached dating the same way. I was open and interested in people but not desperate for their attention, and I approached everything very casually. This resulted in an awful lot of attention, both in real life and from online dating. Believe me, I was pretty skeptical of the "Confidence is sexy" mantra until I figured out it actually worked.
I say all this because I used exactly the same words you're using to describe myself when I was into all the body-hating thing. I was like "Objectively, people prefer women with smaller waists, and nicer butts, and perkier boobs, and better hair, and and and and", and you know what? That was all true! Objectively, Random Internet Person, when confronted with the faceless, nameless choice of "Perky Boobs" vs. "Not-Perky Boobs" they chose perky boobs every time! But I am not a nameless pair of not-perky boobs. I'm an actual person, and when they read the profile and met me they were meeting a person, not a pair of boobs. And it was the person that drew them in, not the tits.
Finally: you're insisting dating is objective. Your basic premise could not be more wrong. Dating and romance are the least objective and rational areas of human interaction. Love and lust are inspired by so many more facets of you than just a few of your body parts--but in order for those facets to shine, you need to believe that they're important. If you can think of yourself as hot, or even just fake it, and go into every date with the attitude that the other person is lucky to be seeing you, you'll find your attractiveness to the person will increase by leaps and bounds. But you're not only making the mistake of defining yourself around a couple traits, you're defining them in a way that you lose every time. And I guarantee that your lack of self-confidence is shining through your profile and your interactions with your dates. Insecurity and a "LOVE ME PLEASE GOD LOVE ME" attitude is a major boner-killer for men and women.
posted by Anonymous at 5:57 PM on July 5, 2012
Response by poster: But the thing is, in a profile, you are a nameless spectre with only a few pictures to judge by, and that is how people judge. (Proof, which I've linked before.) And in person, apparently the person isn't drawing anyone in but making people indifferent or sometimes even repulsed after a month or so.
posted by dekathelon at 7:34 AM on July 6, 2012
posted by dekathelon at 7:34 AM on July 6, 2012
Your problem is not your appearance. It is your ATTITUDE about your appearance, and yes, you can change that. Whether or not you want to do the hard work required to change it... well, that's up to you. But all I can tell you is, I've dated a lot unattractive, awesome people- but I've never dated someone who hated themselves, because it is no fun to be around people like that. Seek therapy.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:05 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:05 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
People read profiles, not just look at pictures
The world is not divided into "The top 5% get love, the rest of us get nothing"--you are approaching "Love" and "Number of Messages Received Per Day" as if they are the same thing, when they are not. Does being hot mean getting base attention is easier? Yes. Does it mean finding someone compatible with whom you want to spend the rest of your life with is easier? The 50% divorce rate among people of all levels of attractiveness indicate finding Twue Wuv is apparently as difficult for the pretty people as it is for the ugly.
Look, it is pretty clear that you have decided you are a horrible, unloveable uggo doomed to romantic failure forever, because you are resistant as hell to the idea that it might be your attitude about yourself rather than yourself that's the issue. Have you considered therapy? Your shitty viewpoint of yourself is going to affect your whole life, not just your romantic relationships, and will open you up to easy exploitation from assholes.
posted by Anonymous at 9:27 AM on July 6, 2012
The world is not divided into "The top 5% get love, the rest of us get nothing"--you are approaching "Love" and "Number of Messages Received Per Day" as if they are the same thing, when they are not. Does being hot mean getting base attention is easier? Yes. Does it mean finding someone compatible with whom you want to spend the rest of your life with is easier? The 50% divorce rate among people of all levels of attractiveness indicate finding Twue Wuv is apparently as difficult for the pretty people as it is for the ugly.
Look, it is pretty clear that you have decided you are a horrible, unloveable uggo doomed to romantic failure forever, because you are resistant as hell to the idea that it might be your attitude about yourself rather than yourself that's the issue. Have you considered therapy? Your shitty viewpoint of yourself is going to affect your whole life, not just your romantic relationships, and will open you up to easy exploitation from assholes.
posted by Anonymous at 9:27 AM on July 6, 2012
There is actual empirical evidence that some people actually do care about this stuff, and not just, like, troglodytes.
I fixed that for you.
You seem very hung up on numbers and statistics and surveys which confirm that someting is wrong with you. I'm not trying to discount your individual experience, even if it doesn't match mine, my friends, or other responders [and in the first two cases, we were having a very different experience from what the okTrends suggests, and is that stuff even scientifically valid anyway?] but I'm just not sure what kind of answer you want here. The common denominator here is you, but you've already determined that you aren't fixable. I'm not even sure that there's something wrong with you, except that your expectations might be too high.
posted by sm1tten at 10:34 AM on July 6, 2012
I fixed that for you.
You seem very hung up on numbers and statistics and surveys which confirm that someting is wrong with you. I'm not trying to discount your individual experience, even if it doesn't match mine, my friends, or other responders [and in the first two cases, we were having a very different experience from what the okTrends suggests, and is that stuff even scientifically valid anyway?] but I'm just not sure what kind of answer you want here. The common denominator here is you, but you've already determined that you aren't fixable. I'm not even sure that there's something wrong with you, except that your expectations might be too high.
posted by sm1tten at 10:34 AM on July 6, 2012
I mean, what seems like body hatred seems very realistic to me, just being aware of what guys' standards are
Yeah sure I guess, if you want to date bros or something. But there is no monolithic Guy Standard. I mean, have you never looked around you at the people who are overweight, flat chested, really tall, acne-burdened or who have physical disabilities or interesting tics and wondered how the hell we all got partnered up?
Seriously, please ponder the world around you and think about that.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:31 AM on July 6, 2012
Yeah sure I guess, if you want to date bros or something. But there is no monolithic Guy Standard. I mean, have you never looked around you at the people who are overweight, flat chested, really tall, acne-burdened or who have physical disabilities or interesting tics and wondered how the hell we all got partnered up?
Seriously, please ponder the world around you and think about that.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:31 AM on July 6, 2012
You seem to be really resistant to the notion that your attitude toward yourself is contributing to this problem, or, really, to any understanding of this situation that doesn't present you as hopelessly broken, and just doomed to repeated interpersonal failure.
You also seem like you're pretty smart. Like many smart people whose brains sometimes get in their own way (and I think you'll find plenty around these parts) you seem to think that your thoughts are true, and to go looking for evidence to support that. It looks like you may have an implicit belief that what you think about yourself always corresponds to objective reality. This is not actually the case. People are usually wrong about all sorts of things, especially themselves.
This pattern, where you think something negative about yourself and are so convinced that it's true that you won't let anyone tell you otherwise, is textbook depression. Are you currently being treated for depression. Because, honestly, it seems like that's what's lurking at the heart of a lot of your questions.
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:45 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
You also seem like you're pretty smart. Like many smart people whose brains sometimes get in their own way (and I think you'll find plenty around these parts) you seem to think that your thoughts are true, and to go looking for evidence to support that. It looks like you may have an implicit belief that what you think about yourself always corresponds to objective reality. This is not actually the case. People are usually wrong about all sorts of things, especially themselves.
This pattern, where you think something negative about yourself and are so convinced that it's true that you won't let anyone tell you otherwise, is textbook depression. Are you currently being treated for depression. Because, honestly, it seems like that's what's lurking at the heart of a lot of your questions.
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:45 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hi, dekathelon, I get it what you are feeling. In my teens and 20s, I constantly belittled myself for being not a perfect size 2, for being physically deficient in a multitude of ways. Guess what, I am still not a size 2, but I don't undercut myself so much to others anymore. It's only taken 20 or so years!
You can and should be kind to yourself. Stop beating yourself up. This is all wasted energy and accomplishes nothing. Stop reading the profile parsing, along with any websites or publications that have to do with the beauty or cosmetic industry.
Nobody is perfect, nobody has it all, nobody gets all the love, all the time. Time and maturity will teach you that. Be kind to others for having faults, too. Love is not subject to logic, timing, or pants size. People make strange choices, sometimes not wisely. You will find a person who will see you for the beautiful human that you are, but you *have* to turn off the spigot of "I am ugly." It's so trite, but you have to believe that you are worth the attention of another person for them to give it to you.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
You can and should be kind to yourself. Stop beating yourself up. This is all wasted energy and accomplishes nothing. Stop reading the profile parsing, along with any websites or publications that have to do with the beauty or cosmetic industry.
Nobody is perfect, nobody has it all, nobody gets all the love, all the time. Time and maturity will teach you that. Be kind to others for having faults, too. Love is not subject to logic, timing, or pants size. People make strange choices, sometimes not wisely. You will find a person who will see you for the beautiful human that you are, but you *have* to turn off the spigot of "I am ugly." It's so trite, but you have to believe that you are worth the attention of another person for them to give it to you.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:32 PM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The problem is that the people telling me negative things, implicitly or sometimes explicitly, are the people who are supposed to be in relationships with me. Theirs are the opinions I have to calibrate things to.
The answer I'm looking for is and is still the same as the one in my original post: how can I stop it, and how can I get to a place in my life where I have something long-term going on? I don't see this as being any more unreasonable than working toward a desired career, say. I want this to happen for me. I want to be able to answer the OKCupid questions "how long do your relationships last?" and "what was the length of your last relationship?" with something other than "a few months," which everyone hates - or, for that matter, not have to at all.
There has been absolutely no advice about how to behave in relationships or what to say and what absolutely not to say, for instance. These are all things I flounder through. And every time I think I can relax and that he likes me, it turns out I was wrong and he dumps me.
And for what it's worth, just to prove wrong some of people's assumptions here, I literally do not care what people think of themselves. If anything, I actually prefer people who have realistic assessments of themselves to people who have unearned cockiness. I find it endearing and a sign of intelligence.
posted by dekathelon at 8:54 AM on July 7, 2012
The answer I'm looking for is and is still the same as the one in my original post: how can I stop it, and how can I get to a place in my life where I have something long-term going on? I don't see this as being any more unreasonable than working toward a desired career, say. I want this to happen for me. I want to be able to answer the OKCupid questions "how long do your relationships last?" and "what was the length of your last relationship?" with something other than "a few months," which everyone hates - or, for that matter, not have to at all.
There has been absolutely no advice about how to behave in relationships or what to say and what absolutely not to say, for instance. These are all things I flounder through. And every time I think I can relax and that he likes me, it turns out I was wrong and he dumps me.
And for what it's worth, just to prove wrong some of people's assumptions here, I literally do not care what people think of themselves. If anything, I actually prefer people who have realistic assessments of themselves to people who have unearned cockiness. I find it endearing and a sign of intelligence.
posted by dekathelon at 8:54 AM on July 7, 2012
Response by poster: Sorry to double-post, but I just remembered: that's the kicker, "unearned." I believe that it's completely fine to have confidence in one's self if you've earned it. If Adonis wants to think he's the hottest thing ever and be the cockiest motherfucker on planet earth, then by all means. But if Medusa wanted to think that, then she'd just be willfully stupid, and it's not like anyone would believe her over what they can see with their own two eyes.
This doesn't just apply to looks, by the way. For instance, whatever negative things I think are simply the things that evidence and other people have taught me.
posted by dekathelon at 9:00 AM on July 7, 2012
This doesn't just apply to looks, by the way. For instance, whatever negative things I think are simply the things that evidence and other people have taught me.
posted by dekathelon at 9:00 AM on July 7, 2012
I don't think you are going to find those kinds of answers here, because those answers don't exist in the minds of most people. There are fora out there that think they have those kinds of set-in-stone type of equations, and maybe you should seek out those? Although I warn you, they are full of single, bitter people.
Most people feel that dating and relationships are not a thing where X + Y leads to outcome Z. Like building a successful career, you can acquire skills, like communicating a certain way, which MAY result in a successful outcome, but there are no guarantees, ever. You are fairly young and it seems like everyone in your age group (slightly below mine) thinks that everyone else is out there having long term relationships and sexual escapades but so many of the questions, even here, contradict that notion that I am continually surprised by people thinking that they are somehow outside of the norm. Maybe you need more single friends? But, again, like building a career, you don't usually graduate from college making six figures. You don't usually go from "never held someone's hand" to LTR either.
I'm not saying it's unreasonable to want a relationship, but seriously, your mindset towards it is probably not helping, and frankly neither is the venue - online dating relationships tend to move quickly and fizzle faster and I think it's because many people approach it in a way that doesn't foster natural development and set their expectations inappropriately.
The things that people are telling you that you can do, you don't see any value in. I know some of it may seem "blah blah love myself, really, blah blah" but if the way you behave in relationships is anything like your questions, you are not presenting yourself as someone who is relationship material to some people. That's what I think most of us are getting at, because you can adjust that. But instead, you want to calibrate your lifestyle towards the opinions of people who tell you negative things and break up with you?
I feel bad that I honestly feel like I cannot help you, then.
posted by sm1tten at 9:59 AM on July 7, 2012
Most people feel that dating and relationships are not a thing where X + Y leads to outcome Z. Like building a successful career, you can acquire skills, like communicating a certain way, which MAY result in a successful outcome, but there are no guarantees, ever. You are fairly young and it seems like everyone in your age group (slightly below mine) thinks that everyone else is out there having long term relationships and sexual escapades but so many of the questions, even here, contradict that notion that I am continually surprised by people thinking that they are somehow outside of the norm. Maybe you need more single friends? But, again, like building a career, you don't usually graduate from college making six figures. You don't usually go from "never held someone's hand" to LTR either.
I'm not saying it's unreasonable to want a relationship, but seriously, your mindset towards it is probably not helping, and frankly neither is the venue - online dating relationships tend to move quickly and fizzle faster and I think it's because many people approach it in a way that doesn't foster natural development and set their expectations inappropriately.
The things that people are telling you that you can do, you don't see any value in. I know some of it may seem "blah blah love myself, really, blah blah" but if the way you behave in relationships is anything like your questions, you are not presenting yourself as someone who is relationship material to some people. That's what I think most of us are getting at, because you can adjust that. But instead, you want to calibrate your lifestyle towards the opinions of people who tell you negative things and break up with you?
I feel bad that I honestly feel like I cannot help you, then.
posted by sm1tten at 9:59 AM on July 7, 2012
There has been absolutely no advice about how to behave in relationships or what to say and what absolutely not to say, for instance. These are all things I flounder through.
Well, if you spend a lot of time talking about how much you dislike yourself or how other people are better than you, stop doing that. If you never ever express an opinion or suggest an activity because you're afraid of looking bad, stop doing that.
Look, I am perfectly willing to believe that you are astonishingly ugly. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE WORTH LESS THAN A HOT PERSON, and if people are making you think that, THEY ARE WRONG.
GO TO THERAPY. GO TO THERAPY. GO TO THERAPY.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:29 PM on July 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, if you spend a lot of time talking about how much you dislike yourself or how other people are better than you, stop doing that. If you never ever express an opinion or suggest an activity because you're afraid of looking bad, stop doing that.
Look, I am perfectly willing to believe that you are astonishingly ugly. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE WORTH LESS THAN A HOT PERSON, and if people are making you think that, THEY ARE WRONG.
GO TO THERAPY. GO TO THERAPY. GO TO THERAPY.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:29 PM on July 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
For instance, whatever negative things I think are simply the things that evidence and other people have taught me.
These may be the things that you've learned from other people and the evidence that you see, but that's not the same as them being true. Your perceptions are likely being run through a filter that is looking for negative things to say about you and ignoring anything positive. In other words, you think you're gathering evidence, but your instruments are off.
It would be like if your questions was, "I'm in NY on 23rd street. I'm trying to find 86th street, but I keep ending up in the financial district. I have this compass, so I know I'm walking North. What do I do?" And then we all take a look at your compass and say, "oh, here's the problem, your compass is broken and it's telling you the wrong thing about which way is North."
You can fix your compass, or get a new one, or ignore it altogether and find some other way of telling directions. But as long as you insist on relying on that compass, you're going to keep ending up in Battery Park, and nothing we can say is going to help you.
So, once again, I strongly suggest therapy, possibly in conjunction with medication. If you're totally unwilling to do that, I'd at least pick up a copy of Feeling Good.
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:34 PM on July 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
These may be the things that you've learned from other people and the evidence that you see, but that's not the same as them being true. Your perceptions are likely being run through a filter that is looking for negative things to say about you and ignoring anything positive. In other words, you think you're gathering evidence, but your instruments are off.
It would be like if your questions was, "I'm in NY on 23rd street. I'm trying to find 86th street, but I keep ending up in the financial district. I have this compass, so I know I'm walking North. What do I do?" And then we all take a look at your compass and say, "oh, here's the problem, your compass is broken and it's telling you the wrong thing about which way is North."
You can fix your compass, or get a new one, or ignore it altogether and find some other way of telling directions. But as long as you insist on relying on that compass, you're going to keep ending up in Battery Park, and nothing we can say is going to help you.
So, once again, I strongly suggest therapy, possibly in conjunction with medication. If you're totally unwilling to do that, I'd at least pick up a copy of Feeling Good.
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:34 PM on July 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
There has been absolutely no advice about how to behave in relationships or what to say and what absolutely not to say, for instance. These are all things I flounder through. And every time I think I can relax and that he likes me, it turns out I was wrong and he dumps me.
The reason there is no advice on how to behave in relationships or what to/not to say is that every single relationship is different. Every single situation in a relationship is different. There isn't a guidebook we can point you to. I sincerely wish there was. The fact that you don't feel comfortable sharing specifics of your relationships because you're concerned they will identify you is totally understandable, but also, honestly, it leaves a lot less to work with in that vein.
Also,
And for what it's worth, just to prove wrong some of people's assumptions here, I literally do not care what people think of themselves. .
and
If anything, I actually prefer people who have realistic assessments of themselves to people who have unearned cockiness. I find it endearing and a sign of intelligence.
I believe that it's completely fine to have confidence in one's self if you've earned it. If Adonis wants to think he's the hottest thing ever and be the cockiest motherfucker on planet earth, then by all means. But if Medusa wanted to think that, then she'd just be willfully stupid, and it's not like anyone would believe her over what they can see with their own two eyes.
contradict one another. You clearly do care what people think of themselves, if Medusa thinking she's hot makes her "willfully stupid."
It's been said, but nthing that taking the worst of what people tell you about yourself and claiming it as "evidence" is not going to get you very far, I'm afraid.
One piece of advice I can give you is this: let's say you meet someone totally fantastic and great. They love you and everything about you, truly. What happens when you don't believe them because you've constructed this terrible narrative about yourself? If their opinion doesn't match your "evidence"? This is not the road to a happy, healthy relationship.
posted by dysh at 6:04 PM on July 7, 2012
The reason there is no advice on how to behave in relationships or what to/not to say is that every single relationship is different. Every single situation in a relationship is different. There isn't a guidebook we can point you to. I sincerely wish there was. The fact that you don't feel comfortable sharing specifics of your relationships because you're concerned they will identify you is totally understandable, but also, honestly, it leaves a lot less to work with in that vein.
Also,
And for what it's worth, just to prove wrong some of people's assumptions here, I literally do not care what people think of themselves. .
and
If anything, I actually prefer people who have realistic assessments of themselves to people who have unearned cockiness. I find it endearing and a sign of intelligence.
I believe that it's completely fine to have confidence in one's self if you've earned it. If Adonis wants to think he's the hottest thing ever and be the cockiest motherfucker on planet earth, then by all means. But if Medusa wanted to think that, then she'd just be willfully stupid, and it's not like anyone would believe her over what they can see with their own two eyes.
contradict one another. You clearly do care what people think of themselves, if Medusa thinking she's hot makes her "willfully stupid."
It's been said, but nthing that taking the worst of what people tell you about yourself and claiming it as "evidence" is not going to get you very far, I'm afraid.
One piece of advice I can give you is this: let's say you meet someone totally fantastic and great. They love you and everything about you, truly. What happens when you don't believe them because you've constructed this terrible narrative about yourself? If their opinion doesn't match your "evidence"? This is not the road to a happy, healthy relationship.
posted by dysh at 6:04 PM on July 7, 2012
Response by poster: I mean, I don't care in the sense that it's a horrible horrible terrible terrible disgusting turnoff if someone has a realistic assessment of themself, which so many people seem to think apparently. Like I said, to me it's a plus. And if someone had a worse assessment of themself than was merited, I'd just feel really bad for them and do my best to help them see things more realistically, but again, I wouldn't be turned off at all. I'd just want to be more nurturing, if anything.
And if I met someone who loves me and everything about me, then obviously I wouldn't have that terrible narrative because the evidence would contradict it. The problem is, apparently people don't, and every time it seems like someone might, it all disappears suddenly.
posted by dekathelon at 9:55 PM on July 7, 2012
And if I met someone who loves me and everything about me, then obviously I wouldn't have that terrible narrative because the evidence would contradict it. The problem is, apparently people don't, and every time it seems like someone might, it all disappears suddenly.
posted by dekathelon at 9:55 PM on July 7, 2012
And if someone had a worse assessment of themself than was merited, I'd just feel really bad for them and do my best to help them see things more realistically, but again, I wouldn't be turned off at all. I'd just want to be more nurturing, if anything.
Start by nurturing yourself. What confuses me is this: does whatever person you're involved with at the moment define how you perceive yourself? That's certainly what it sounds like, if a situation in which someone truly loves and cares for you negates all previous "evidence" of your undateability. Seriously, it sounds trite, but one person can't fix that for you.
I know it's frustrating to feel like no one can see or acknowledge your best qualities, and it's easy to fall into the trap of not seeing them yourself, but you need to fight this.
It sounds like you've had some experiences with some unkind people. I'm truly sorry about that. Don't let them define you. Be kind to yourself.
Can you actually make a list of things you think are awesome about yourself? Not to post here, but just to think about. Anything from "I make a killer omelette" to "I am kind to strangers" to "I have an awesome laugh." List as many as you can. It might seem silly, but it can go a long way in reminding you that you exist and are awesome independently of what others think of you at any given moment.
I wish you the best.
posted by dysh at 6:47 AM on July 8, 2012
Start by nurturing yourself. What confuses me is this: does whatever person you're involved with at the moment define how you perceive yourself? That's certainly what it sounds like, if a situation in which someone truly loves and cares for you negates all previous "evidence" of your undateability. Seriously, it sounds trite, but one person can't fix that for you.
I know it's frustrating to feel like no one can see or acknowledge your best qualities, and it's easy to fall into the trap of not seeing them yourself, but you need to fight this.
It sounds like you've had some experiences with some unkind people. I'm truly sorry about that. Don't let them define you. Be kind to yourself.
Can you actually make a list of things you think are awesome about yourself? Not to post here, but just to think about. Anything from "I make a killer omelette" to "I am kind to strangers" to "I have an awesome laugh." List as many as you can. It might seem silly, but it can go a long way in reminding you that you exist and are awesome independently of what others think of you at any given moment.
I wish you the best.
posted by dysh at 6:47 AM on July 8, 2012
"And if I met someone who loves me and everything about me, then obviously I wouldn't have that terrible narrative because the evidence would contradict it. The problem is, apparently people don't, and every time it seems like someone might, it all disappears suddenly."
No No no no no!!!! Please do not go forward looking for a long term relationship with this logic. It puts you in an incredibly vulnerable position... and you're lucky you haven't been seriously mind-fucked for fun by an asshole who realizes that you're needing him to validate yourself. You're accepting value appraisals from people you don't know, who don't really know you.
Just no, not even a little bit.
"There has been absolutely no advice about how to behave in relationships or what to say and what absolutely not to say, for instance."
All I can say about this is that people can smell it if you're desperate, there is no hiding it, and the only way not to look desperate is to have firm boundaries and a sense of self...
posted by misspony at 10:46 AM on July 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
No No no no no!!!! Please do not go forward looking for a long term relationship with this logic. It puts you in an incredibly vulnerable position... and you're lucky you haven't been seriously mind-fucked for fun by an asshole who realizes that you're needing him to validate yourself. You're accepting value appraisals from people you don't know, who don't really know you.
Just no, not even a little bit.
"There has been absolutely no advice about how to behave in relationships or what to say and what absolutely not to say, for instance."
All I can say about this is that people can smell it if you're desperate, there is no hiding it, and the only way not to look desperate is to have firm boundaries and a sense of self...
posted by misspony at 10:46 AM on July 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Second lesson: "I want someone I love and who loves me and whom I can move in with and go out with and get to know. I don't think it's unreasonable as something to want, but apparently everyone I meet disagrees." When you meet that person, you stop dating. You know that saying about how you always find things in the last place you look? Dating is frustrating and by definition you're going to encounter a string of people with whom you either don't click at all or who aren't into it for more than a few weeks.
It sounds like right now what you want is to settle for being with someone who isn't omg-amazing because you just want to stop dating. I get it. But if you stop looking before you find what you're looking for, you never find it.
posted by telegraph at 4:40 PM on July 4, 2012 [9 favorites]