If it's a white lie, we may need some bleach
July 4, 2012 3:27 PM Subscribe
Am I overreacting to a lie my partner told me?
I found out this morning that my partner (he's male, I'm female, if it's relevant) has had two more sexual partners than he, on multiple occasions, previously said. The first time I asked him about this was on the night that we met (only as a conversation topic, not because I care about the number), and we didn't expect a one-night stand (we met through mutual friends on a night out) to develop into a committed relationship, and we've been dating for three months. In discussing our sexual history, he said to me that he had only had two sexual partners, his high school girlfriend and a one-off in September. As another idle-chit-chat topic, I asked him how many months he'd ever gone between sex, and he said, the time between that woman in September and me in March.
This morning, he left his email account open, and as we are currently waiting for an important email about hotel accommodations for a trip we're taking in a few weeks, I refreshed the page (which was the inbox so it’s not like I was doing any digging around) to see if it had arrived. (MeFi, I should've known better). Though that important email wasn’t in there, I noticed old incoming emails from Craigslist with subjects like "meet up" and the most recent one being from a week or two before we met. I didn't click on them, but when my partner came back in from the shower, I asked him point-blank, "What's up with all those emails from Craigslist?"
He told me that he had, on two separate occasions, gotten together with women he met on there. I said, "So when you said you had only had sex with two people, you were lying?" He admitted to lying about it but then, angrily and maybe justifiably, he said I shouldn’t have been going through his emails and that this was a sign that I didn’t trust him. After explaining to him that I wasn’t snooping and I only looked in the inbox because I wanted to know about the hotel arrangements, he began apologizing profusely and told me that the first time he lied about it, we had just met and he didn't think he was very good in bed so he said a lower number to impress me. The other times, he remembered what he had said the first time I asked before we were dating, and he didn't want to tell me the truth because he was ashamed that he had used Craigslist for that, and this shame was only further cemented by the time I went through CL personals and critiqued a few of the M4W ads (dick move on my part, I know). He said he thought it was a white lie that was irrelevant to our relationship and he thought telling me the truth about it after lying the first time would have just made me mad.
I'm not upset or judgemental about him having sex with people from CL, as I’ve done that too (and now he knows I’ve done that, but he didn’t at the time I was mocking CL personals) , nor does it really matter the number of sexual partners he's had before me. I only asked because I was curious, not because the actual figure would’ve affected my opinion of him in any way. Cognitively, I can grok that he did what he did out of embarrassment, not a desire to actively deceive me, but the fact that he kept the lie going through months and would’ve left it that way had I not seen those emails this morning still bugs me.
Aside from this incident, he’s always been sincere, kind and supportive of me, and while I don’t want to crucify him, I still feel terrible and I don’t know why. Am I justified in feeling this way or did I put myself in this position by being too nosy? Even if I do deserve this, how do I get rid of the icky feeling?
(And to address the AskMeFi default, I've already left a message for my therapist.)
I found out this morning that my partner (he's male, I'm female, if it's relevant) has had two more sexual partners than he, on multiple occasions, previously said. The first time I asked him about this was on the night that we met (only as a conversation topic, not because I care about the number), and we didn't expect a one-night stand (we met through mutual friends on a night out) to develop into a committed relationship, and we've been dating for three months. In discussing our sexual history, he said to me that he had only had two sexual partners, his high school girlfriend and a one-off in September. As another idle-chit-chat topic, I asked him how many months he'd ever gone between sex, and he said, the time between that woman in September and me in March.
This morning, he left his email account open, and as we are currently waiting for an important email about hotel accommodations for a trip we're taking in a few weeks, I refreshed the page (which was the inbox so it’s not like I was doing any digging around) to see if it had arrived. (MeFi, I should've known better). Though that important email wasn’t in there, I noticed old incoming emails from Craigslist with subjects like "meet up" and the most recent one being from a week or two before we met. I didn't click on them, but when my partner came back in from the shower, I asked him point-blank, "What's up with all those emails from Craigslist?"
He told me that he had, on two separate occasions, gotten together with women he met on there. I said, "So when you said you had only had sex with two people, you were lying?" He admitted to lying about it but then, angrily and maybe justifiably, he said I shouldn’t have been going through his emails and that this was a sign that I didn’t trust him. After explaining to him that I wasn’t snooping and I only looked in the inbox because I wanted to know about the hotel arrangements, he began apologizing profusely and told me that the first time he lied about it, we had just met and he didn't think he was very good in bed so he said a lower number to impress me. The other times, he remembered what he had said the first time I asked before we were dating, and he didn't want to tell me the truth because he was ashamed that he had used Craigslist for that, and this shame was only further cemented by the time I went through CL personals and critiqued a few of the M4W ads (dick move on my part, I know). He said he thought it was a white lie that was irrelevant to our relationship and he thought telling me the truth about it after lying the first time would have just made me mad.
I'm not upset or judgemental about him having sex with people from CL, as I’ve done that too (and now he knows I’ve done that, but he didn’t at the time I was mocking CL personals) , nor does it really matter the number of sexual partners he's had before me. I only asked because I was curious, not because the actual figure would’ve affected my opinion of him in any way. Cognitively, I can grok that he did what he did out of embarrassment, not a desire to actively deceive me, but the fact that he kept the lie going through months and would’ve left it that way had I not seen those emails this morning still bugs me.
Aside from this incident, he’s always been sincere, kind and supportive of me, and while I don’t want to crucify him, I still feel terrible and I don’t know why. Am I justified in feeling this way or did I put myself in this position by being too nosy? Even if I do deserve this, how do I get rid of the icky feeling?
(And to address the AskMeFi default, I've already left a message for my therapist.)
Best answer: I think people are probably going to say you're being too hard on him. I just wanted to let you know that I know how you feel, and that even a tiny lie (or lie by omission) can feel like a big breach of trust. It's sad because once it happens, it can't be undone. Forgive but don't forget, I guess.
posted by superfish at 3:33 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by superfish at 3:33 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I think you should let it go. He did it out of shame and embarrassment and continued it out of shame and embarrassment (shit, you straight-up mocked people in his position). It's not like he's still meeting up with these women and you guys get along well otherwise. If it's something he was already embarrassed about knowing you've used CL yourself doesn't necessarily make him feel better about it.
posted by Anonymous at 3:34 PM on July 4, 2012
posted by Anonymous at 3:34 PM on July 4, 2012
Best answer: This is one thing. Don't forget it, don't blow it up too big either.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:35 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 3:35 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is about life before you? Let it go.
There is a big difference between lying about one's sexual history and lying about current activity.
posted by ambrosia at 3:38 PM on July 4, 2012 [9 favorites]
There is a big difference between lying about one's sexual history and lying about current activity.
posted by ambrosia at 3:38 PM on July 4, 2012 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Dasein, there weren't very many emails in the inbox. I didn't have to do any scrolling to see them.
posted by apophenia at 3:44 PM on July 4, 2012
posted by apophenia at 3:44 PM on July 4, 2012
Best answer: It wounds like what is bugging you is not the lie (that you think it was understandable that he said it at the time), but that he maintained it.
If this is what is bugging you, I suggest letting it go. The problem with little lies is that once you've said them, it's often easier and better to let them lie and hopefully be forgotten than it is to dig them up and come clean, and I think 3 months is actually on the early side for coming clean on this sort of thing - and perhaps your reaction is part of that.
A year or two later, you can tell someone the stories about the crazy dumb stuff you did to try to impress them, and you'll both think its funny, but just three months in? You don't know each other well enough for it not to cause a big record scratch, and wait what?!
I think the timing is part of why you're feeling this. It's hit you right when you know you're interested in something bigger, but before you've established the long history that you can trust. If the truth came out at a better time, I doubt you would feel it as acutely.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:45 PM on July 4, 2012 [5 favorites]
If this is what is bugging you, I suggest letting it go. The problem with little lies is that once you've said them, it's often easier and better to let them lie and hopefully be forgotten than it is to dig them up and come clean, and I think 3 months is actually on the early side for coming clean on this sort of thing - and perhaps your reaction is part of that.
A year or two later, you can tell someone the stories about the crazy dumb stuff you did to try to impress them, and you'll both think its funny, but just three months in? You don't know each other well enough for it not to cause a big record scratch, and wait what?!
I think the timing is part of why you're feeling this. It's hit you right when you know you're interested in something bigger, but before you've established the long history that you can trust. If the truth came out at a better time, I doubt you would feel it as acutely.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:45 PM on July 4, 2012 [5 favorites]
At the time you asked, he in now way owed you the truth. I would not construe that as a lie, myself, and more of a preservation of privacy.
(On top of that, I believe people in even the most committed relationships are entitled to privacy, but that I get not all relationships roll that way.)
posted by DarlingBri at 3:47 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
(On top of that, I believe people in even the most committed relationships are entitled to privacy, but that I get not all relationships roll that way.)
posted by DarlingBri at 3:47 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
Let it go; everyone is entitled to privacy regarding their prior sexual life and it sounds like you have a habit of probling/discussing other people's sex lives before getting to know if they also feel as comfortable with the subject as you do.
posted by saucysault at 3:51 PM on July 4, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 3:51 PM on July 4, 2012 [5 favorites]
Absolutely let it go - both times you asked were too early for you to be entitled to that level of detail about his previous sex life.
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:53 PM on July 4, 2012
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:53 PM on July 4, 2012
Response by poster: -harlequin-, I think that's exactly it. So how I get over this weird feeling?
DarlingBri, I understand why he lied about it when I asked him the first time, and there I admit I was being overly probing, but when it was brought up again two months into the relationship (i.e. the September-March response and discussions about both his and my sexual history that I didn't describe in the question) and him giving the same response is what upsets me.
posted by apophenia at 3:54 PM on July 4, 2012
DarlingBri, I understand why he lied about it when I asked him the first time, and there I admit I was being overly probing, but when it was brought up again two months into the relationship (i.e. the September-March response and discussions about both his and my sexual history that I didn't describe in the question) and him giving the same response is what upsets me.
posted by apophenia at 3:54 PM on July 4, 2012
Best answer: Just as a data point, I have no problem talking to my current partner about my past relationships, and even about past sexual escapades. But if there were short-term hookups that I was embarrassed about or which I felt reflected poorly on me (and there are), I would absolutely decide that this was none of my partner's business; the past being the past, and whatnot.
So how I get over this weird feeling?
I would try to think of some really embarrassing things you've done in your life (not "ha ha" embarrassing but "mortified" embarrassing) and think about how eager you would be to tell someone you really liked about them. I know I've got a couple that I plan to take to the grave with me.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 4:11 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
So how I get over this weird feeling?
I would try to think of some really embarrassing things you've done in your life (not "ha ha" embarrassing but "mortified" embarrassing) and think about how eager you would be to tell someone you really liked about them. I know I've got a couple that I plan to take to the grave with me.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 4:11 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
On the continuum of things to be deceptive about this is kind of a blip. It's also why people who have sex with each other should never ask or tell a "number" - it never does anyone any good.
posted by last night a dj saved my life at 4:17 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by last night a dj saved my life at 4:17 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think you're ever entitled to that level of detail about a partner, if it happened before you. Much less entitled to be annoyed at them fudging the number. I also don't buy that you only found out because 'you were making conversation'. Who does that?! Be honest, you asked because you wanted to know, because the answer meant something to you. I think if you'd discovered he'd exaggerated his number and he'd slept with LESS people instead of more, you wouldn't be upset. I think you owe him an apology, not the other way around. Next time, mind your own business, don't check other people's mail and just enjoy your relationship, because after all, he's with you now. And consider yourself lucky he still wants to be with someone who thinks its ok to interrogate him about his sexual past.
posted by Jubey at 4:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 4:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, I think it would be hard, in his position, to later come clean about having lied to you back when you guys were having what was supposed to be a one night stand. I'm not taking a position on whether that makes it ok -- just that it's a likely explanation.
posted by J. Wilson at 4:19 PM on July 4, 2012
posted by J. Wilson at 4:19 PM on July 4, 2012
Best answer: Just because you are curious about something and ask, doesn't mean a person is required to give you an answer. If you ask enough deeply personal questions, you will get either untruths or confrontation.
So now you have a choice -- you can live this relationship in the past (a past that was before you ever entered the picture) or you can live from this day forward. You'll be happier if you look forward instead of back.
posted by Houstonian at 4:26 PM on July 4, 2012
So now you have a choice -- you can live this relationship in the past (a past that was before you ever entered the picture) or you can live from this day forward. You'll be happier if you look forward instead of back.
posted by Houstonian at 4:26 PM on July 4, 2012
I think what he did is tiny compared to your invading his privacy. If I were you I'd be more worried about whether he'll get past your breach of trust with regard to the emails than how you'll get over him keeping an embarrassing piece of his past private.
posted by merocet at 4:28 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by merocet at 4:28 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It is not okay to lie.
I suggest you tell him that if he doesn't want to answer in future, he can say he doesn't want to answer, but another lie will sink him.
posted by corb at 4:29 PM on July 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
I suggest you tell him that if he doesn't want to answer in future, he can say he doesn't want to answer, but another lie will sink him.
posted by corb at 4:29 PM on July 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think it would be hard, in his position, to later come clean about having lied to you back when you guys were having what was supposed to be a one night stand.
No kidding- especially after your performance making fun of Craigslist personals. I have a really hard time imagining how that even happened? Just a fun Friday night making fun of those lame guys who pick up girls (like you?) on Craigslist? You need to dig into your heart a little and figure out why you're so invested in playing off your interest in the details of other people's sex lives as idle curiosity. Your behavior (the questions, the angst, going out of your way to make fun of people you don't even know) seems to suggest differently.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:30 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
No kidding- especially after your performance making fun of Craigslist personals. I have a really hard time imagining how that even happened? Just a fun Friday night making fun of those lame guys who pick up girls (like you?) on Craigslist? You need to dig into your heart a little and figure out why you're so invested in playing off your interest in the details of other people's sex lives as idle curiosity. Your behavior (the questions, the angst, going out of your way to make fun of people you don't even know) seems to suggest differently.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:30 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
Best answer: The number of partners can be kind of a third rail of relationships, particularly where the lie began before you had any right to expect him to give you that information. If he told you the truth and that number was too high, he risks losing your approval. Same thing with it being too low. If he refuses to answer the question, same thing.
No one likes being lied to, especially about something so intimate, which is probably why you feel bad even if you can rationally understand why he did what he did.
Would it help if you looked at his response, which was pretty forthcoming and reasonable? That is a better predictor about whether you have a good relationship than whether he lied about something that you probably would be happier had you not asked. Also, look at his honesty in general: Does he do what he says he will do? Is this the only thing he's lied about? Do you trust him? Hopefully, the answers to these questions will put this issue in perspective.
posted by *s at 4:31 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
No one likes being lied to, especially about something so intimate, which is probably why you feel bad even if you can rationally understand why he did what he did.
Would it help if you looked at his response, which was pretty forthcoming and reasonable? That is a better predictor about whether you have a good relationship than whether he lied about something that you probably would be happier had you not asked. Also, look at his honesty in general: Does he do what he says he will do? Is this the only thing he's lied about? Do you trust him? Hopefully, the answers to these questions will put this issue in perspective.
posted by *s at 4:31 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Some final clarifications before I stop thread-sitting:
1. It really, really isn't the number that matters. I've been in a relationship with someone who had sex with 30+ people and it was never an issue for me. I've had sex with people before this current partner. I wouldn't expect him to have never had any partners before me. My beef at hand is really with the lying.
2. About the emails: I didn't even click on them. The latest was literally five rows down from the latest email in the inbox, and I recognized the formatting Craigslist responses come in.
3. ThePinkSuperhero, I think it might be that in my social circle, we do talk very frankly about sex (I mean, really, really graphically.) The CL mocking was one time after we looked through Craigslist job ads; I clicked on the personals and said that I like to read through them sometimes because they're really funny (by they, I meant the frankness of the ads, not the people posting the ads, but I see how he could've taken that differently); I wasn't going through each post and making a detailed list of how pathetic the poster was.
posted by apophenia at 4:45 PM on July 4, 2012
1. It really, really isn't the number that matters. I've been in a relationship with someone who had sex with 30+ people and it was never an issue for me. I've had sex with people before this current partner. I wouldn't expect him to have never had any partners before me. My beef at hand is really with the lying.
2. About the emails: I didn't even click on them. The latest was literally five rows down from the latest email in the inbox, and I recognized the formatting Craigslist responses come in.
3. ThePinkSuperhero, I think it might be that in my social circle, we do talk very frankly about sex (I mean, really, really graphically.) The CL mocking was one time after we looked through Craigslist job ads; I clicked on the personals and said that I like to read through them sometimes because they're really funny (by they, I meant the frankness of the ads, not the people posting the ads, but I see how he could've taken that differently); I wasn't going through each post and making a detailed list of how pathetic the poster was.
posted by apophenia at 4:45 PM on July 4, 2012
It would be best to move forward. Perhaps this has taught you to never look at other people's email accounts, no matter how close they are to you. It's private and it's none of your business.
As far as lying, what did you expect? You pried, he lied, then he lied for consistency because it was still none of your business. By peeping his email account, you went into none of your business and discovered further evidence of none of your business.
I understand going on the offensive when you've been the bad guy, saying it's a problem because the lie reiterated was during your relationship. That's small change, you cornered him into it in the first place.
Take a deep breath and let it go, because the whole situation reflects worse on you, and if you keep holding onto it and he is made to dwell on it, he may sort out that what you did was much worse than what he did.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 5:05 PM on July 4, 2012
As far as lying, what did you expect? You pried, he lied, then he lied for consistency because it was still none of your business. By peeping his email account, you went into none of your business and discovered further evidence of none of your business.
I understand going on the offensive when you've been the bad guy, saying it's a problem because the lie reiterated was during your relationship. That's small change, you cornered him into it in the first place.
Take a deep breath and let it go, because the whole situation reflects worse on you, and if you keep holding onto it and he is made to dwell on it, he may sort out that what you did was much worse than what he did.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 5:05 PM on July 4, 2012
Sometimes people delete partners from their sexual history. This is a really common thing to do and usually it's done because the person wasn't particularly proud of that episode and wishes in retrospect that it hadn't happened. This is totally normal and somewhat to be expected. It's also common for there to be some wiggle room in the number depending on the exact definition of "had sex with". Are we counting non-penetrative sex, cybersex, etc? Why is it important that the number be exact?
This is not a big deal in and of itself – people have a right to a certain degree of privacy (even within a relationship!) and significant others shouldn't expect to know the full, unvarnished, unedited version of their partners' past lives in complete detail. It could become a big deal if one of the people that he deleted was someone you knew, or if it had some bearing on your safety (STI status), or if the number was vastly different, but otherwise I don't think it's really your business if he had a couple more partners than he was willing to admit to.
Nobody practices 100% radical truthtelling. Surely you have a (small, unimportant) secret or two about your life before meeting this guy that you'd rather not have him find out about? Surely you've made the occasional minor edit to your life history in order to present yourself in a more positive light or avoid owning up to some episode in your past that you'd rather not think about?
You shouldn't poke at other peoples' e-mail, you shouldn't back people into a corner and make them admit to things they're ashamed about unless they're things that have real bearing on your own life. This is not one of those things. Let it go. Apologize for breaking his privacy. Accept that you will never get to know every detail of his (or anyone else's) life.
posted by Scientist at 5:20 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
This is not a big deal in and of itself – people have a right to a certain degree of privacy (even within a relationship!) and significant others shouldn't expect to know the full, unvarnished, unedited version of their partners' past lives in complete detail. It could become a big deal if one of the people that he deleted was someone you knew, or if it had some bearing on your safety (STI status), or if the number was vastly different, but otherwise I don't think it's really your business if he had a couple more partners than he was willing to admit to.
Nobody practices 100% radical truthtelling. Surely you have a (small, unimportant) secret or two about your life before meeting this guy that you'd rather not have him find out about? Surely you've made the occasional minor edit to your life history in order to present yourself in a more positive light or avoid owning up to some episode in your past that you'd rather not think about?
You shouldn't poke at other peoples' e-mail, you shouldn't back people into a corner and make them admit to things they're ashamed about unless they're things that have real bearing on your own life. This is not one of those things. Let it go. Apologize for breaking his privacy. Accept that you will never get to know every detail of his (or anyone else's) life.
posted by Scientist at 5:20 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I understand why you clicked on the emails. I've been provoked to do so and I wasn't proud of it, but in doing so it catalyzes the truth to be told. In these situations it is often turned around that you were the one violating a partner's privacy. In any case, weather provoked or not, its not something to be ashamed of and your partner need not be afraid to show you what is in his inbox. In regards to overreacting, you are not. A lie, no matter how small is a scarring thing and does take time to heal. Makes one think of other possible lies and a cycle of mistrust. Yes, it happened before you and it is understandable that he omitted the information early on, but as your relationship deepens you have to be able to share deep intimate things of this nature. Be glad you found out and were able to have the discussion, so now try to move on and not let it weigh so heavily on you.
posted by i_wear_boots at 5:36 PM on July 4, 2012
posted by i_wear_boots at 5:36 PM on July 4, 2012
Hi, I'm your boyfriend. Well, not really, because I don't know you and also I'm a woman. But I've hooked up with people from the personals, and later when I ended up in a relationship, I didn't consciously "lie" about the number of people I'd slept with so much as I forgot about one guy that I hooked up with once? Why did I forget? For a lot of reasons (I have ADHD, I forget tons of stuff), but mostly because it just wasn't that memorable at all. Really. We hooked up once, it was boring, and I never saw him again.
The guy I ended up in a relationship with after the period of hookups never asked about my official number of partners, because it was none of his business. I never asked about his number, either, because it was none of my business. What was my business was whether or not he was free of STI's, and vice versa. Had he ever poked around in my email to find out what my life was like before he came along, he'd have found out what life was like without me in a very swift fashion, because invading someone's privacy isn't okay.
And like so many other people have said, surely you have something in your own past that you would be MORTIFIED to have a boyfriend find out about. Even if it's something as simple as, I don't know, maybe you're that Star Wars kid that made the incredibly embarrassing video of yourself playing with a light saber in your garage. Know what I mean? Maybe keep that in mind in the future, when you find yourself getting all bunchy about not knowing everything about someone in your life. They probably don't know everything about you, either, and maybe that's for the best.
posted by palomar at 5:45 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
The guy I ended up in a relationship with after the period of hookups never asked about my official number of partners, because it was none of his business. I never asked about his number, either, because it was none of my business. What was my business was whether or not he was free of STI's, and vice versa. Had he ever poked around in my email to find out what my life was like before he came along, he'd have found out what life was like without me in a very swift fashion, because invading someone's privacy isn't okay.
And like so many other people have said, surely you have something in your own past that you would be MORTIFIED to have a boyfriend find out about. Even if it's something as simple as, I don't know, maybe you're that Star Wars kid that made the incredibly embarrassing video of yourself playing with a light saber in your garage. Know what I mean? Maybe keep that in mind in the future, when you find yourself getting all bunchy about not knowing everything about someone in your life. They probably don't know everything about you, either, and maybe that's for the best.
posted by palomar at 5:45 PM on July 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
Sorry if this is splitting hairs, but is this the general email account he uses all the time for personal/business emailing, or it is one that he uses only to book trips and stuff? If the former, I think it's a bad sign that he keeps those CL emails at the forefront of his inbox--he might still be interested in those people. If the latter, I wouldn't be as concerned. In either case, I do see both sides of the situation. I don't think it's good he lied to you but I can totally understand how he would in the context of you mocking CL posts early on. I think if you want to continue the relationship you will have to let it drop.
posted by mlle valentine at 6:49 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mlle valentine at 6:49 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: how do I get rid of the icky feeling?
Just because you were startled by something today doesn't mean you'll feel that way forever. Or even in 48 hours. You may have to give yourself a couple of days to normalize and regain some perspective.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:15 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just because you were startled by something today doesn't mean you'll feel that way forever. Or even in 48 hours. You may have to give yourself a couple of days to normalize and regain some perspective.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:15 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Had he ever poked around in my email to find out what my life was like before he came along...
But that wasn't really what happened. It's not unreasonable to glance at a boyfriend's email inbox to see if a booking email's come through. And it's weird that the craigslist emails were still right there in the visible part of the inbox, if these were relationships that he said were over before you two were dating!
posted by leahwrenn at 10:08 PM on July 4, 2012
But that wasn't really what happened. It's not unreasonable to glance at a boyfriend's email inbox to see if a booking email's come through. And it's weird that the craigslist emails were still right there in the visible part of the inbox, if these were relationships that he said were over before you two were dating!
posted by leahwrenn at 10:08 PM on July 4, 2012
It's not unreasonable to glance at a boyfriend's email inbox to see if a booking email's come through.
Maybe for you. But since the OP's boyfriend got very upset about his privacy being invaded, it seems that he does not feel that it's reasonable for anyone to go poking around in his inbox.
posted by palomar at 12:06 AM on July 5, 2012
Maybe for you. But since the OP's boyfriend got very upset about his privacy being invaded, it seems that he does not feel that it's reasonable for anyone to go poking around in his inbox.
posted by palomar at 12:06 AM on July 5, 2012
I think asking someone you're newly dating how many people they've slept with is more questionable than lying. It's a question that makes many people nervous and uncomfortable, and I think it's bad manners to ask. I wouldn't blame anyone for lying.
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:40 AM on July 5, 2012
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:40 AM on July 5, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks, all, for the input.
Just to be clear, breaking up with my partner was never an option, because as previously stated, before this, we've never had anything that was enough of a Thing to argue about or for me to ask an AskMeFi question over. Mostly, I needed the impartial perspective on whether my feelings were valid and regardless of their validity, how to deal with the yucky feeling I got.
(I should've emphasized the "what do I do with these feelings?" part over the "Am I overreacting?" part.)
My partner and I discussed the entire issue yesterday, before and during the thread, and initially, he let me make this post to help me process my feelings. I know now that a lot of the angst stemmed not solely from this incident but residual trust issues from my last partner (who left me for a co-worker) that I unfairly projected onto my new guy.
Best answers marked are those that understood both his and my position and also addressed the question of "What do I do now?"
posted by apophenia at 2:54 AM on July 5, 2012
Just to be clear, breaking up with my partner was never an option, because as previously stated, before this, we've never had anything that was enough of a Thing to argue about or for me to ask an AskMeFi question over. Mostly, I needed the impartial perspective on whether my feelings were valid and regardless of their validity, how to deal with the yucky feeling I got.
(I should've emphasized the "what do I do with these feelings?" part over the "Am I overreacting?" part.)
My partner and I discussed the entire issue yesterday, before and during the thread, and initially, he let me make this post to help me process my feelings. I know now that a lot of the angst stemmed not solely from this incident but residual trust issues from my last partner (who left me for a co-worker) that I unfairly projected onto my new guy.
Best answers marked are those that understood both his and my position and also addressed the question of "What do I do now?"
posted by apophenia at 2:54 AM on July 5, 2012
Best answer: I draw a pretty hard line on honesty in relationships, and this would absolutely bother me. I think he absolutely has the right to be uncomfortable with a question like "how many people have you slept with", and to not answer that question if he doesn't want to. But answering it with a lie (rather than "I'm not comfortable with that" or "let's wait till we know each other a bit better" or "eh, quite a few/not so many/enough for me") would trouble me.
Does it mean his first reaction when asked an uncomfortable question is to lie? Or that he has a lot of trouble expressing the fact that he's uncomfortable with something (In which case: well, that's human enough, but it could cause some serious trouble in the relationship in times to come.) Does it mean that he's usually capable of handling those situations better, but there's something about sex in general or Craigslist hookups in particular which fills him with so much shame he acts uncharacteristically? (In which case: does this mean there's trouble brewing for the future? Does he have a problem with your history?) Or, worst-case scenario, is this part of a bigger pattern of behaviour? Are there other things you're going to stumble across in future? Do you trust that he's telling you the truth about this situation now - and if he's not, is it going to be a problem for you if you find out in the future that it was actually 6 or 8 or 20 or 200 Craigslist hookups?
And hopefully none of that will be an issue at all! Hopefully it'll be fine. But you're not being unreasonable for feeling uncomfortable about the situation as it stands. You've only been together for three months; you don't yet know him well enough to say whether this is a one-off or an established behaviour. Own your feelings and talk to him about them, see what he's got to say, set whatever policies you're comfortable with for going forward (whether it be an "I won't ask and you won't tell" policy about past sexual history, or a "Lie again and it's over" call) and then make an active decision to drop the subject and work forward from that point. It's going to be a lot easier to do that once you've acknowledged and acted on how you feel, rather than biting your lip and letting it brew under the surface.
posted by Catseye at 2:57 AM on July 5, 2012
Does it mean his first reaction when asked an uncomfortable question is to lie? Or that he has a lot of trouble expressing the fact that he's uncomfortable with something (In which case: well, that's human enough, but it could cause some serious trouble in the relationship in times to come.) Does it mean that he's usually capable of handling those situations better, but there's something about sex in general or Craigslist hookups in particular which fills him with so much shame he acts uncharacteristically? (In which case: does this mean there's trouble brewing for the future? Does he have a problem with your history?) Or, worst-case scenario, is this part of a bigger pattern of behaviour? Are there other things you're going to stumble across in future? Do you trust that he's telling you the truth about this situation now - and if he's not, is it going to be a problem for you if you find out in the future that it was actually 6 or 8 or 20 or 200 Craigslist hookups?
And hopefully none of that will be an issue at all! Hopefully it'll be fine. But you're not being unreasonable for feeling uncomfortable about the situation as it stands. You've only been together for three months; you don't yet know him well enough to say whether this is a one-off or an established behaviour. Own your feelings and talk to him about them, see what he's got to say, set whatever policies you're comfortable with for going forward (whether it be an "I won't ask and you won't tell" policy about past sexual history, or a "Lie again and it's over" call) and then make an active decision to drop the subject and work forward from that point. It's going to be a lot easier to do that once you've acknowledged and acted on how you feel, rather than biting your lip and letting it brew under the surface.
posted by Catseye at 2:57 AM on July 5, 2012
Best answer: I would be upset if it had played into my person risk calculations in terms of using protection or getting tested/fluid bonded. Like, if I asked that in the context of a sexual safety discussion and he'd lied to me he would be out on his ass. In any other context I would see it as a sign of immaturity and a willingness to lie about inconsequential stuff to make himself look better...but if that didn't seem to be a persistent character trait in other situations I'd eventually forget about it.
This. When I started dating my current partner, we had one of those conversations. Not so much about totals (though I know we did talk about that at some point), but more in terms of "what have you been up to lately?" and "done any testing?"
Had she said "I've been celibate for the last year" but actually meant "last weekend I did three strangers bareback in a club bathroom," I'd have been big time pissed. But editing out some sexual contact that was, for whatever reason, traumatic or embarrassing or painful? That doesn't raise red flags for me. There are definitely events in my own past that I gloss over or elide when talking about the past; that just seems normal to me, I guess, part of being an imperfect human with emotions.
I think you are doing the right thing, by talking about it rather than sitting there stewing in anger. And I think you are also doing the right thing to not just dismiss this as nothing -- what if he turns out to have a pattern of lying about things that are important to you? In the long run, you get over this by (re)building trust and intimacy, by demonstrating honesty in the parts of your relationship that matter, and by being loving towards one another.
posted by Forktine at 6:03 AM on July 5, 2012
This. When I started dating my current partner, we had one of those conversations. Not so much about totals (though I know we did talk about that at some point), but more in terms of "what have you been up to lately?" and "done any testing?"
Had she said "I've been celibate for the last year" but actually meant "last weekend I did three strangers bareback in a club bathroom," I'd have been big time pissed. But editing out some sexual contact that was, for whatever reason, traumatic or embarrassing or painful? That doesn't raise red flags for me. There are definitely events in my own past that I gloss over or elide when talking about the past; that just seems normal to me, I guess, part of being an imperfect human with emotions.
I think you are doing the right thing, by talking about it rather than sitting there stewing in anger. And I think you are also doing the right thing to not just dismiss this as nothing -- what if he turns out to have a pattern of lying about things that are important to you? In the long run, you get over this by (re)building trust and intimacy, by demonstrating honesty in the parts of your relationship that matter, and by being loving towards one another.
posted by Forktine at 6:03 AM on July 5, 2012
How do you deal with your feelings?
Start reminding yourself and keep reminding yourself for as long as it takes- that this is an incredibly new relationship. He doesn’t owe you the truth. Even now- He is in a really awkward position. He has been forced to talk about some really private shit with someone who has only been recently promoted from “stranger”. Don’t be shocked if you find out in two years that he really fudged the numbers and he has absolutely no way of coming clean without being taken to task AGAIN.
You are using the words “partner” and “boyfriend” interchangeably. This is incorrect thinking. After three months of dating, this man is not your partner. You are more individuals than you are a team. This is the time when little untruths and minor exaggerations are going to come to light- and they need to be accepted as part of an evolving relationship and not some sort of giant breach of trust. They should be funny and warmly received (“I thought you said you didn’t have a thing for blonds, teehee” “didn’t you say you were prom king? teehee”) This is how you become a team.
You need to look at this as a lesson on how to deal with irrational emotions. Everyone gets them. But they will absolutely ruin the good things in your life if you let them control you.
It’s also a good thing for you to look at privacy in a new light. Privacy isn’t just about one person. It’s a contract that protects everybody- and now you know why. Some things, you don’t want to ever know. I have been with my boyfriend for a few years and I actively do not look at his email- because a) it’s not any of my business, b) he deserves that kind of respect, and c) because it is private, he may not hide things that I might get weird irrational feelings about.
posted by Blisterlips at 8:22 AM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Start reminding yourself and keep reminding yourself for as long as it takes- that this is an incredibly new relationship. He doesn’t owe you the truth. Even now- He is in a really awkward position. He has been forced to talk about some really private shit with someone who has only been recently promoted from “stranger”. Don’t be shocked if you find out in two years that he really fudged the numbers and he has absolutely no way of coming clean without being taken to task AGAIN.
You are using the words “partner” and “boyfriend” interchangeably. This is incorrect thinking. After three months of dating, this man is not your partner. You are more individuals than you are a team. This is the time when little untruths and minor exaggerations are going to come to light- and they need to be accepted as part of an evolving relationship and not some sort of giant breach of trust. They should be funny and warmly received (“I thought you said you didn’t have a thing for blonds, teehee” “didn’t you say you were prom king? teehee”) This is how you become a team.
You need to look at this as a lesson on how to deal with irrational emotions. Everyone gets them. But they will absolutely ruin the good things in your life if you let them control you.
It’s also a good thing for you to look at privacy in a new light. Privacy isn’t just about one person. It’s a contract that protects everybody- and now you know why. Some things, you don’t want to ever know. I have been with my boyfriend for a few years and I actively do not look at his email- because a) it’s not any of my business, b) he deserves that kind of respect, and c) because it is private, he may not hide things that I might get weird irrational feelings about.
posted by Blisterlips at 8:22 AM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
You shouldn't have snooped through his inbox, agreed.
If all the activity happened before the relationship, it's not that big a deal, agreed.
The thing that would bother me about this situation is that the emails were still in his inbox (emails from months ago!). This suggests one of two explanations:
i) He just doesn't get that many emails.
ii) He has been deleting/archiving other emails, but left those on the front page of his inbox for some reason. This would really bother me, because that usually means that I still am not done with those emails -- I want to email the person back or have a reference of them for some reason.
You're in a better position to know whether it's likely that he'd have received so few emails in three months. Otherwise I think this is something that requires explanation. I wouldn't get paranoid about it (maybe he was cleaning out his inbox and was going in reverse chronological order, so the ones that were received earlier were now showing up on the front page), but still something that would niggle at me.
posted by peacheater at 8:33 AM on July 5, 2012
If all the activity happened before the relationship, it's not that big a deal, agreed.
The thing that would bother me about this situation is that the emails were still in his inbox (emails from months ago!). This suggests one of two explanations:
i) He just doesn't get that many emails.
ii) He has been deleting/archiving other emails, but left those on the front page of his inbox for some reason. This would really bother me, because that usually means that I still am not done with those emails -- I want to email the person back or have a reference of them for some reason.
You're in a better position to know whether it's likely that he'd have received so few emails in three months. Otherwise I think this is something that requires explanation. I wouldn't get paranoid about it (maybe he was cleaning out his inbox and was going in reverse chronological order, so the ones that were received earlier were now showing up on the front page), but still something that would niggle at me.
posted by peacheater at 8:33 AM on July 5, 2012
Best answer: Part of my problem when I realized my partner had had more partners than I'd realized was that it changed my idea of them as a person, and that felt Icky for awhile. I was in love with the earlier person, who'd had sex with a few people - so finding out I was Wrong about who they were was really, really unsettling. Even though I don't care about numbers, either - but I do care about who I think he is.
Later I could process through the icky feeling to realize I also loved this slightly-different-seeming, really kind and awesome guy that had been there all along. So for your own sake, try seeing if it isn't just the lie, but about your concept of who he is as person.
posted by ldthomps at 8:37 AM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Later I could process through the icky feeling to realize I also loved this slightly-different-seeming, really kind and awesome guy that had been there all along. So for your own sake, try seeing if it isn't just the lie, but about your concept of who he is as person.
posted by ldthomps at 8:37 AM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Blisterlips, I only used the word "partner" because I just don't like the word "boyfriend" and if I mixed them up, it's because trying not to say the word "boyfriend" is only a recent endeavor.
posted by apophenia at 9:34 AM on July 5, 2012
posted by apophenia at 9:34 AM on July 5, 2012
Best answer: Oh, lady. I went through something similar very recently. It's true that it's not a big deal, but I know what it's like to be suddenly jarred into the awareness of how easily someone can lie to you. I think you maybe need to be on guard for a few months while you let what you called the "cognitive" aspect sink in (he did it out of embarrassment, he never expected you to become a long-term partner), and it eventually won't bite sting as much. From personal experience, at first I was angry both at my boyfriend and at the friend that the "white lie" involved (not a sexual thing, but leading to related suspicions), but now I rarely think about it and am totally okay with the friend in question (and my boyfriend, of course). I think as long as there's not a bigger pattern it's one of those things that truly just take time.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:42 AM on July 5, 2012
posted by stoneandstar at 9:42 AM on July 5, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Discussions regarding past sexual experience is sometimes an evolving process. There may be events that he is comfortable in talking about on the first date, and there may be events that he won't divulge until the relationship is more mature.
Your only question, instead of "what happened, why didn't you tell me?", might be "how come you're still hanging on to those old e/mails?"
posted by HuronBob at 3:33 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]