Should we break up? The middle aged version...
June 12, 2012 7:28 AM Subscribe
Should we break up? The middle aged version...
I see these sorts of questions all the time from people in their 20s, but I'm a little older...
I have been in a relationship for around 2 years now. I'm in my late 30s, divorced, one child that I have visitation with and for whom I am trying to be the best dad that I can possibly be.
My relationship is great in most ways, but bad in enough ways that, were I a bit younger and in a different situation, I would probably end it. We share similar worldviews and interests, amazing sex, like to do a lot of the same activities.
However, a huge problem is that our fights are epic. There has never been any violence per se, but she has pushed our fights into situations that were dangerous. For example, one time I was trying to drive away from her house because I didn't want to fight anymore, and she first stood in front of my car so I couldn't drive, and then crawled into the front seat to try to take my keys - while the motor was running, emergency brake off, etc.
She has done other things that are similarly boundary pushing, things that if a man were to do them to a woman would probably be considered threatening - showing up at my house uninvited when we are fighting, for example.
She also has a real problem with jealousy. Once when we were first dating, I was at a party at her house and spent about 10 or 20 minutes in the kitchen, washing the dishes and talking to a mutual female friend. She got pretty upset about that - even though during this time she was fully involved in another activity (so I couldn't be interacting with her), she never came in to talk to both of us together (like you do at parties), and nothing inappropriate was done or said by me or the other friend.
Lately I have been getting the feeling that she is checking my facebook and phone texts without my consent, and that really skeeves me out. I have actually caught her checking out my facebook (not a super big deal but I'm not comfortable with it), and the other night she kept taking my phone to "make a call" even though she had her own with her.
On balance, we have had more good times than bad. We have a good relationship - it's just when we are fighting (not an extremely common occurrence) that things really seem to get out of control, and then there's the jealousy.
So, were I in my 20s and asking this question, I already know what the answer would be. I got married young and missed out on a lot of things that I would still like to experience, and my relationship experience since the divorce has been pretty limited - this is my 2nd LTR since the divorce.
But things are still good enough that I'd (kind of) like to try to work things out.
And the final wrinkle is my child. In the 2 years that I've been seeing this woman, the two of them have developed a good relationship. She is truly amazing with my youngin, and I am not the best equipped parent there is - I can be pretty clueless. So it's been a tremendous boon in many ways to have her in my life. She's never done a bad thing to my kid, and I can't imagine that she ever would. I am really sad at the thought of removing this woman from my child's life.
Other details - she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
So I am on the fence. Am I in a life situation where it would be better to try to work things out with this woman, or would it be better to strike out on my own and try to have some of those experiences I never had when I was younger?
I have been in a relationship for around 2 years now. I'm in my late 30s, divorced, one child that I have visitation with and for whom I am trying to be the best dad that I can possibly be.
My relationship is great in most ways, but bad in enough ways that, were I a bit younger and in a different situation, I would probably end it. We share similar worldviews and interests, amazing sex, like to do a lot of the same activities.
However, a huge problem is that our fights are epic. There has never been any violence per se, but she has pushed our fights into situations that were dangerous. For example, one time I was trying to drive away from her house because I didn't want to fight anymore, and she first stood in front of my car so I couldn't drive, and then crawled into the front seat to try to take my keys - while the motor was running, emergency brake off, etc.
She has done other things that are similarly boundary pushing, things that if a man were to do them to a woman would probably be considered threatening - showing up at my house uninvited when we are fighting, for example.
She also has a real problem with jealousy. Once when we were first dating, I was at a party at her house and spent about 10 or 20 minutes in the kitchen, washing the dishes and talking to a mutual female friend. She got pretty upset about that - even though during this time she was fully involved in another activity (so I couldn't be interacting with her), she never came in to talk to both of us together (like you do at parties), and nothing inappropriate was done or said by me or the other friend.
Lately I have been getting the feeling that she is checking my facebook and phone texts without my consent, and that really skeeves me out. I have actually caught her checking out my facebook (not a super big deal but I'm not comfortable with it), and the other night she kept taking my phone to "make a call" even though she had her own with her.
On balance, we have had more good times than bad. We have a good relationship - it's just when we are fighting (not an extremely common occurrence) that things really seem to get out of control, and then there's the jealousy.
So, were I in my 20s and asking this question, I already know what the answer would be. I got married young and missed out on a lot of things that I would still like to experience, and my relationship experience since the divorce has been pretty limited - this is my 2nd LTR since the divorce.
But things are still good enough that I'd (kind of) like to try to work things out.
And the final wrinkle is my child. In the 2 years that I've been seeing this woman, the two of them have developed a good relationship. She is truly amazing with my youngin, and I am not the best equipped parent there is - I can be pretty clueless. So it's been a tremendous boon in many ways to have her in my life. She's never done a bad thing to my kid, and I can't imagine that she ever would. I am really sad at the thought of removing this woman from my child's life.
Other details - she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
So I am on the fence. Am I in a life situation where it would be better to try to work things out with this woman, or would it be better to strike out on my own and try to have some of those experiences I never had when I was younger?
Anonymous, you could be a very dear friend of mine. He has an almost identical problem. And so I will tell you the same thing that I told him.
Is this the relationship you want your child to witness? Is this the relationship you want them to model their future relationships off of? If they're a girl, do you want to teach them that this behavior is okay, and this controlling, violent behavior is how you show love? Because I guarantee you, if you have a child, they are aware of the fighting, even if they don't understand the full implications of it.
If your child is a boy, do you want to teach him that this is the best he can hope for? That if he wants to be loved, he'd better put up with this kind of behavior and just learn to suffer through it?
No matter how much your child and she may get along - perhaps even because of how your child and she may get along - this is not a healthy environment for them to be learning cues about how to live. Even if you don't live together, and don't live with your child, your child will see it - and still be impacted by it.
It might be able to be fixed - but you have to try to lay down boundaries. It is not acceptable for her to go through your phone. It is not acceptable for her to endanger you for an argument.
Let me tell you: without intervention, it does not get better from here.
posted by corb at 7:50 AM on June 12, 2012 [33 favorites]
Is this the relationship you want your child to witness? Is this the relationship you want them to model their future relationships off of? If they're a girl, do you want to teach them that this behavior is okay, and this controlling, violent behavior is how you show love? Because I guarantee you, if you have a child, they are aware of the fighting, even if they don't understand the full implications of it.
If your child is a boy, do you want to teach him that this is the best he can hope for? That if he wants to be loved, he'd better put up with this kind of behavior and just learn to suffer through it?
No matter how much your child and she may get along - perhaps even because of how your child and she may get along - this is not a healthy environment for them to be learning cues about how to live. Even if you don't live together, and don't live with your child, your child will see it - and still be impacted by it.
It might be able to be fixed - but you have to try to lay down boundaries. It is not acceptable for her to go through your phone. It is not acceptable for her to endanger you for an argument.
Let me tell you: without intervention, it does not get better from here.
posted by corb at 7:50 AM on June 12, 2012 [33 favorites]
It depends on what your willing to continue to deal with, for how long and whether or not she wants to change. If she is wants to change and takes steps to do so, that will mean significant time + therapy. If she has not shown any interest in changing, though, I'd probably move on. Beyond that, you have different life goals (she wants life partner; you don't) so even under the best conditions you are not well suited to each other in the long term. Good luck.
posted by marimeko at 7:50 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by marimeko at 7:50 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
...she first stood in front of my car so I couldn't drive, and then crawled into the front seat to try to take my keys - while the motor was running...
A quick thought experiment: next time this happens, your kid is there. Now, I don't know how old your kid is, but let's just say they're old enough to actually take in what is going on without understanding it. Kids use adult behavior as a baseline for their own, moreso when they respect the adult and consider them a family member and so on. I can't imagine you want to put yourself in a position where you have to explain what the hell future stepmom just did.
Also, the fact that she got mad at you for speaking with someone she invited to her party is red flag city.
posted by griphus at 7:51 AM on June 12, 2012 [19 favorites]
A quick thought experiment: next time this happens, your kid is there. Now, I don't know how old your kid is, but let's just say they're old enough to actually take in what is going on without understanding it. Kids use adult behavior as a baseline for their own, moreso when they respect the adult and consider them a family member and so on. I can't imagine you want to put yourself in a position where you have to explain what the hell future stepmom just did.
Also, the fact that she got mad at you for speaking with someone she invited to her party is red flag city.
posted by griphus at 7:51 AM on June 12, 2012 [19 favorites]
corb: No matter how much your child and she may get along - perhaps even because of how your child and she may get along - this is not a healthy environment for them to be learning cues about how to live. Even if you don't live together, and don't live with your child, your child will see it - and still be impacted by it.
This. A million times.
posted by marimeko at 7:53 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
This. A million times.
posted by marimeko at 7:53 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
I think some counseling, either for the two of you or just for you alone if she won't go, could be helpful in shedding some light on this situation and hopefully giving you the tools to fight in a more healthy, productive manner. That is, if you're invested in it- if the thought of trying to work on this relationship fills you with dread, maybe it is time to call it a day.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
"more good things than bad" is a horrible metric for a relationship and you know it. You have worth no matter your age, and it can't make sense to squander any of your time with the worry etc. of this situation. I don't know how to speak to the relationship she has with your child, and you say she won't do anything to them, but since this has signs of escalation, do you want to chance it? at all?
You're actually in a really attractive position, relatively, if you're under 40, employed, completely separated, and a good parent. Don't need to go out and have some midlife crisis of new experiences, though it may be a good time to do so- just stop letting this age # get to you. glhf
posted by MangyCarface at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
You're actually in a really attractive position, relatively, if you're under 40, employed, completely separated, and a good parent. Don't need to go out and have some midlife crisis of new experiences, though it may be a good time to do so- just stop letting this age # get to you. glhf
posted by MangyCarface at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
So here is what stands out to me:
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
This could be the root of a lot of her jealousy issues - she knows you don't actually want to spend your life with her, and she's freaking out at the emotional instability that causes inside her head.
Honestly, I don't know what it means that you want to stay in a relationship with this person but don't see it going anywhere long-term. What is your goal in having a girlfriend, if not to build a life with her? Particularly if you're letting her help you raise your child?
I agree with everyone above that this situation is not healthy, and I think at the very least you need to do some serious work on your communication skills, but if you don't see a long-term future with this person, and what she wants is someone to spend the rest of her life with, I don't understand why you want to bother to try to fix your issues. Essentially you're just stringing her along here, and it sounds like she can sense that.
posted by something something at 8:03 AM on June 12, 2012 [66 favorites]
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
This could be the root of a lot of her jealousy issues - she knows you don't actually want to spend your life with her, and she's freaking out at the emotional instability that causes inside her head.
Honestly, I don't know what it means that you want to stay in a relationship with this person but don't see it going anywhere long-term. What is your goal in having a girlfriend, if not to build a life with her? Particularly if you're letting her help you raise your child?
I agree with everyone above that this situation is not healthy, and I think at the very least you need to do some serious work on your communication skills, but if you don't see a long-term future with this person, and what she wants is someone to spend the rest of her life with, I don't understand why you want to bother to try to fix your issues. Essentially you're just stringing her along here, and it sounds like she can sense that.
posted by something something at 8:03 AM on June 12, 2012 [66 favorites]
Drop this. Her actions could be considered domestic violence in California. If the police ever get involved, because your neighbors called for instance, you (because your the man) could easily be charged with it. Even if you are not found guilty the mere charge could threaten your visitation with your child.
I would be fairly surprised if it's not similar in most other states.
I doubt you want that to happen. I think you should end this just after you drop your child is with their mother and aren't going to see them for a while, so that any immediate blow back happens when the child isn't around.
posted by bswinburn at 8:07 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
I would be fairly surprised if it's not similar in most other states.
I doubt you want that to happen. I think you should end this just after you drop your child is with their mother and aren't going to see them for a while, so that any immediate blow back happens when the child isn't around.
posted by bswinburn at 8:07 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm seeing lots of reasons to leave:
posted by J. Wilson at 8:07 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
- Late 30s doesn't mean you should stick in a relationship with this much drama.
- It's not fair to you to stay in this relationship because you don't enjoy this drama.
- It's not fair to her to stay in this relationship because she wants a life partner and you don't.
- You want to play the field and you can't do that while you are with her -- or you can only do so by cheating, which is rotten.
- Because you don't want a life partner, so by staying in the relationship you will only increase your kid's attachment to her, making it that much harder when you eventually break up.
- If she is unstable, which you describe her as, eventually that is likely to spill over into her relationship with your child.
- You are teaching your child what a relationship looks like -- and it's not good.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:07 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
So it sounds like the pros are:
-great sex
-good with your kids
-similar worldviews, enjoy similar activities
-(others, I'm sure, which you didn't mention)
Cons:
-irrationally jealous
-inappropriate boundaries
-invades your privacy
-dangerous response to conflict (the car thing)
-different long-term relationship needs/wants
I honestly think you could find a woman who has all of the pros without ANY of the cons of your current gf. Before I read your question I thought the situation might be a bit ambiguous, but I felt a growing sense of WTF the more I read. Every single one of the things you mentioned is a Major Red Flag. It sounds like you aren't terribly difficult to please and you seem like a nice guy. There is a woman out there who would be absolutely thrilled to meet you and your kid. You deserve it.
posted by pintapicasso at 8:08 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
-great sex
-good with your kids
-similar worldviews, enjoy similar activities
-(others, I'm sure, which you didn't mention)
Cons:
-irrationally jealous
-inappropriate boundaries
-invades your privacy
-dangerous response to conflict (the car thing)
-different long-term relationship needs/wants
I honestly think you could find a woman who has all of the pros without ANY of the cons of your current gf. Before I read your question I thought the situation might be a bit ambiguous, but I felt a growing sense of WTF the more I read. Every single one of the things you mentioned is a Major Red Flag. It sounds like you aren't terribly difficult to please and you seem like a nice guy. There is a woman out there who would be absolutely thrilled to meet you and your kid. You deserve it.
posted by pintapicasso at 8:08 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
"more good things than bad" is a horrible metric for a relationship and you know it.
Wish I could favorite this a thousand times.
I think you really know what you want to do, and you're just uncomfortable with the idea of ending the relationship, being the bad guy, etc.
Imagine that a friend says to you, "I'm involved with this woman and everything's great except a) she threw a party and got mad at me for talking to a mutual female friend while I was there; b) she showed up at my house uninvited while we were having a fight; c) she jumped into my car while it was running and tried to take away my keys; and d) she's checking my facebook without my consent."
You'd probably say, "Hey, Friend, everything is not great. It sounds like she has some major control/jealousy issues going on, and you'd be better off breaking things off and letting her work out her stuff on her own."
Be as good to yourself as you would be to your friend.
posted by virago at 8:09 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wish I could favorite this a thousand times.
I think you really know what you want to do, and you're just uncomfortable with the idea of ending the relationship, being the bad guy, etc.
Imagine that a friend says to you, "I'm involved with this woman and everything's great except a) she threw a party and got mad at me for talking to a mutual female friend while I was there; b) she showed up at my house uninvited while we were having a fight; c) she jumped into my car while it was running and tried to take away my keys; and d) she's checking my facebook without my consent."
You'd probably say, "Hey, Friend, everything is not great. It sounds like she has some major control/jealousy issues going on, and you'd be better off breaking things off and letting her work out her stuff on her own."
Be as good to yourself as you would be to your friend.
posted by virago at 8:09 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you loved her and wanted to stay with her long term, I'd suggest couples counseling, because her issues don't sound unfixable.
But why go to all that trouble when you know you're not in it for the long haul? Stop wasting her time, break up with her and let her find someone who does want to marry her. It's not just about you and your kid, you know.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 8:12 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
But why go to all that trouble when you know you're not in it for the long haul? Stop wasting her time, break up with her and let her find someone who does want to marry her. It's not just about you and your kid, you know.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 8:12 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really
This is enough of a reason to leave.
In fact, I'd say it makes leaving pretty imperative.
And then I could address the domestic violence, teaching your kiddo how to behave in a relationship, addressing whatever it is that lets you believe for even a moment that this behavior from a partner is acceptable, and the likely reality that people don't easily change deeply rooted behaviors like endangering themselves when another person tries to leave a conflict.
Just go.
posted by bilabial at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2012 [16 favorites]
This is enough of a reason to leave.
In fact, I'd say it makes leaving pretty imperative.
And then I could address the domestic violence, teaching your kiddo how to behave in a relationship, addressing whatever it is that lets you believe for even a moment that this behavior from a partner is acceptable, and the likely reality that people don't easily change deeply rooted behaviors like endangering themselves when another person tries to leave a conflict.
Just go.
posted by bilabial at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2012 [16 favorites]
Other details - she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
If you care about this woman at all, then you need to end it for this reason alone or at least make it 100% crystal clear that you are not looking for a life partner. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of her problematic behaviors have stemmed from feelings of insecurity about the relationship and her place in your life. I'm in no way excusing her behavior but it seems that ripping off the bandaid would be the best for both of you.
It's totally understandable not to want a life partner but if that's the case then you might want to forgo introducing any of your future girlfriends to your child.
posted by kaybdc at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
If you care about this woman at all, then you need to end it for this reason alone or at least make it 100% crystal clear that you are not looking for a life partner. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of her problematic behaviors have stemmed from feelings of insecurity about the relationship and her place in your life. I'm in no way excusing her behavior but it seems that ripping off the bandaid would be the best for both of you.
It's totally understandable not to want a life partner but if that's the case then you might want to forgo introducing any of your future girlfriends to your child.
posted by kaybdc at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
Other details - she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
Wow, talk about burying the lede! Age has nothing to do with this -- she is definitely acting out (possibly because she senses a lack of commitment in you); you aren't communicating about it; and you have totally opposed goals for the relationship -- other than that you would like to keep her around to help her parent, while presumably not giving her the chance to have her own kid. Give her and yourself a break, and end it.
posted by yarly at 8:16 AM on June 12, 2012 [23 favorites]
Wow, talk about burying the lede! Age has nothing to do with this -- she is definitely acting out (possibly because she senses a lack of commitment in you); you aren't communicating about it; and you have totally opposed goals for the relationship -- other than that you would like to keep her around to help her parent, while presumably not giving her the chance to have her own kid. Give her and yourself a break, and end it.
posted by yarly at 8:16 AM on June 12, 2012 [23 favorites]
Oh, and coming back to add: I understand that sometimes, especially for older newly divorced dads, they feel like these are Their Only Relationship Opportunities. Sometimes it's because these are the only women who've approached them, or they somehow feel like they're not a catch anymore for other reasons.
Let me assure you, if any of this is the case, it is probably not true. Most of my male divorced friends have enough women interested in them that they can beat them off with sticks. But they don't usually notice it without aid - because the last time they were in the dating market they were dating twenty-year-olds, who behave very differently to express interest.
Also: it's quite possible that you have told her very clearly that you're not looking to have a life partner. It is also quite possible that no matter what you say, she simply doesn't believe you, and is holding on to some hopes that you're just burned from the divorce, and if she just waits long enough, you'll come around. The friend I was talking about previously? That's the situation with his girlfriend. She thinks that eventually he'll be willing to live together. Eventually he'll want to marry her. Even though those are things he's explicitly stated he is uninterested in. You can never underestimate people's capacity for self-delusion.
posted by corb at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Let me assure you, if any of this is the case, it is probably not true. Most of my male divorced friends have enough women interested in them that they can beat them off with sticks. But they don't usually notice it without aid - because the last time they were in the dating market they were dating twenty-year-olds, who behave very differently to express interest.
Also: it's quite possible that you have told her very clearly that you're not looking to have a life partner. It is also quite possible that no matter what you say, she simply doesn't believe you, and is holding on to some hopes that you're just burned from the divorce, and if she just waits long enough, you'll come around. The friend I was talking about previously? That's the situation with his girlfriend. She thinks that eventually he'll be willing to live together. Eventually he'll want to marry her. Even though those are things he's explicitly stated he is uninterested in. You can never underestimate people's capacity for self-delusion.
posted by corb at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was once in a long-term relationship with someone who did a lot of the things you're describing. I stuck it out for a while. When I finally left, it was like waking up out of a coma - I had been sort of conditioning myself to forget just how wonderful life could be when nothing terrible is happening.
I wouldn't rule out therapy helping her, but I wouldn't stick around while someone fixed their issues unless I believed that I wanted them around for the long haul. Maybe that's a little mercenary of me, but I just wouldn't want to deal with the crazy fights while they sort their shit out - a process that could take years.
I can't make these decisions for you or anything, but I can tell you what I would do in your situation: I'd leave.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2012
I wouldn't rule out therapy helping her, but I wouldn't stick around while someone fixed their issues unless I believed that I wanted them around for the long haul. Maybe that's a little mercenary of me, but I just wouldn't want to deal with the crazy fights while they sort their shit out - a process that could take years.
I can't make these decisions for you or anything, but I can tell you what I would do in your situation: I'd leave.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2012
I read this and thought, "The woman is bad news," until you wrote:
She really wants to have a life partner, I don't really
There's nothing quite so hurtful, unless a person is on the same page, as knowing that your significant other likes your company, friendship, sex, and companionship (what is a life partner besides, that, anyway?) but just not quite enough, and as such your relationship has an expiration date.
Either cut this woman loose and find one who wants to be treated like a perishable food item... or change your own attitude first then see if the relationship improves.
posted by killiancourt at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2012 [33 favorites]
She really wants to have a life partner, I don't really
There's nothing quite so hurtful, unless a person is on the same page, as knowing that your significant other likes your company, friendship, sex, and companionship (what is a life partner besides, that, anyway?) but just not quite enough, and as such your relationship has an expiration date.
Either cut this woman loose and find one who wants to be treated like a perishable food item... or change your own attitude first then see if the relationship improves.
posted by killiancourt at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2012 [33 favorites]
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to comment on this statement from the OP:
... one time I was trying to drive away from her house because I didn't want to fight anymore, and she first stood in front of my car so I couldn't drive, and then crawled into the front seat to try to take my keys - while the motor was running, emergency brake off, etc.
She has done other things that are similarly boundary pushing, things that if a man were to do them to a woman would probably be considered threatening - showing up at my house uninvited when we are fighting, for example. (emphasis added by me)
I consider her behaviors threatening, and it bothers me that anyone would think that what she's doing is OK just because she's a woman. I answered phones on a hotline run by an agency that helped domestic-abuse survivors, and if someone had called me describing the kind of situation you're in, I would have said (obviously not in so many words): "Run like hell."
You are not obligated to stick around while she addresses teh crazy in her mind. In fact, I would say you and your child would be way better off not sticking around while she addresses teh crazy. She needs to be dealing with her issues for her own good, not because she thinks (or has been led to think) that once she deals with her shit, the reward will be a life partner.
posted by virago at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
... one time I was trying to drive away from her house because I didn't want to fight anymore, and she first stood in front of my car so I couldn't drive, and then crawled into the front seat to try to take my keys - while the motor was running, emergency brake off, etc.
She has done other things that are similarly boundary pushing, things that if a man were to do them to a woman would probably be considered threatening - showing up at my house uninvited when we are fighting, for example. (emphasis added by me)
I consider her behaviors threatening, and it bothers me that anyone would think that what she's doing is OK just because she's a woman. I answered phones on a hotline run by an agency that helped domestic-abuse survivors, and if someone had called me describing the kind of situation you're in, I would have said (obviously not in so many words): "Run like hell."
You are not obligated to stick around while she addresses teh crazy in her mind. In fact, I would say you and your child would be way better off not sticking around while she addresses teh crazy. She needs to be dealing with her issues for her own good, not because she thinks (or has been led to think) that once she deals with her shit, the reward will be a life partner.
posted by virago at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
If you care about this woman at all, then you need to end it for this reason alone or at least make it 100% crystal clear that you are not looking for a life partner.
The problem with making it "100% crystal clear" yet still keeping her around is, she may very well stay hoping you'll change your mind. I know someone who has been strung along for 25 years by a guy who has been clear that he isn't interested in getting married to her, but the relationship is otherwise good enough she keeps hoping eventually he'll come around.
Sometimes it's hard for people to grasp how their relationship can be good if the other person doesn't love them, so they assume that "deep down" the other person must really care, and if they care and don't seem interested in seeing someone else, there's hope that marriage will eventually be on the table.
Let her go so she can go get married, and you can go have fun.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 8:26 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
The problem with making it "100% crystal clear" yet still keeping her around is, she may very well stay hoping you'll change your mind. I know someone who has been strung along for 25 years by a guy who has been clear that he isn't interested in getting married to her, but the relationship is otherwise good enough she keeps hoping eventually he'll come around.
Sometimes it's hard for people to grasp how their relationship can be good if the other person doesn't love them, so they assume that "deep down" the other person must really care, and if they care and don't seem interested in seeing someone else, there's hope that marriage will eventually be on the table.
Let her go so she can go get married, and you can go have fun.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 8:26 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
If she wants a life partner, and you're not going to be that guy, then what favor are you doing by wasting her time and dicking around with her emotions? Sounds pretty selfish to me.
Then there's the whole, "psycho-bitch" component. Exactly what about that is so sexy? Is it that she's acting "nuts" about you? It has nothing to do with YOU per se, it's how she'd act with any man in her life.
So clearly, since you're not what she's looking for, and you don't envision a future with her, I'm a bit baffled why any more time is being spent on this relationship.
When you break up with her, you need to be very simple and explicit: "I am not interested in a permanant relationship. I don't want to waste your time, I don't want to waste my time. The violence and fighting is not how I want to live my life. Here is a bag/box of shit you've left over at my house."
Don't apologize, don't try to soften the blow. Don't have one more roll in the hay for the road. If you can, do this in a public place, but one where, if she makes a scene, you won't care too much. Taco Bell is good for this. Starbucks is not.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:27 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Then there's the whole, "psycho-bitch" component. Exactly what about that is so sexy? Is it that she's acting "nuts" about you? It has nothing to do with YOU per se, it's how she'd act with any man in her life.
So clearly, since you're not what she's looking for, and you don't envision a future with her, I'm a bit baffled why any more time is being spent on this relationship.
When you break up with her, you need to be very simple and explicit: "I am not interested in a permanant relationship. I don't want to waste your time, I don't want to waste my time. The violence and fighting is not how I want to live my life. Here is a bag/box of shit you've left over at my house."
Don't apologize, don't try to soften the blow. Don't have one more roll in the hay for the road. If you can, do this in a public place, but one where, if she makes a scene, you won't care too much. Taco Bell is good for this. Starbucks is not.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:27 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Other details - she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together.
If you don't have the same goals for your relationship, then it's better to move on. It's wonderful that you found a partner who has a good relationship with your child, but I think your child would be even better off with a happy, fulfilled parent.
Relationships don't have to be miserable to end. It's okay to love someone but know that they aren't right for you, or that you're not the person who's right for them. Listen, though, don't fall into another long-term relationship. Resist that security and go have the experiences you'd like to have. When you're happy and enjoying your life, I think you will be an even better parent.
posted by gladly at 8:29 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you don't have the same goals for your relationship, then it's better to move on. It's wonderful that you found a partner who has a good relationship with your child, but I think your child would be even better off with a happy, fulfilled parent.
Relationships don't have to be miserable to end. It's okay to love someone but know that they aren't right for you, or that you're not the person who's right for them. Listen, though, don't fall into another long-term relationship. Resist that security and go have the experiences you'd like to have. When you're happy and enjoying your life, I think you will be an even better parent.
posted by gladly at 8:29 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
She is truly amazing with my youngin, and I am not the best equipped parent there is - I can be pretty clueless.
If you want to improve your life situation, you might want to put your energy into learning how to be a better parent rather than into a sketchy relationship.
posted by facetious at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2012 [17 favorites]
If you want to improve your life situation, you might want to put your energy into learning how to be a better parent rather than into a sketchy relationship.
posted by facetious at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2012 [17 favorites]
It sounds like you are driving her slowly nuts, because although you are fine giving her mixed signals (enjoying great sex together and allowing her to bond with your child) you won't commit to her.
I'm trying very very hard not to see that as pretty shitty of you. Hmm. Nope. It's pretty shitty.
If you drag this out, expect her flares of temper and jealousy to get worse.
You're giving her the message she is good, just not good enough. That's pretty shattering, and it happens slowly, almost so neither of you has noticed the consequences as they've crept. Surely, you've both failed to put 2-and-2 together.
Ideally she would have dumped you long before this, but clearly she loves you and hopes against hope you will change your mind.
You will not change your mind. Please let her go firmly and with finality, ASAP.
No leaving the door open! You must be clear and firm.
Good luck doing the right thing. It will be worth it.
posted by jbenben at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2012 [48 favorites]
I'm trying very very hard not to see that as pretty shitty of you. Hmm. Nope. It's pretty shitty.
If you drag this out, expect her flares of temper and jealousy to get worse.
You're giving her the message she is good, just not good enough. That's pretty shattering, and it happens slowly, almost so neither of you has noticed the consequences as they've crept. Surely, you've both failed to put 2-and-2 together.
Ideally she would have dumped you long before this, but clearly she loves you and hopes against hope you will change your mind.
You will not change your mind. Please let her go firmly and with finality, ASAP.
No leaving the door open! You must be clear and firm.
Good luck doing the right thing. It will be worth it.
posted by jbenben at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2012 [48 favorites]
Why would a relationship like this be unacceptable at 25 but tolerable at 40? You still deserve to be treated well no matter your age. And with a kid to set an example for, having healthy relationships is not only your right but your responsibility.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2012
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2012
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together
That sticks out to me. I've just turned 30 and I've found I'm thinking a lot more about the future than I did before - if I thought my SO was on a different page, I'd find it really difficult, particularly if I loved them and didn't want to break up with them - it's a really uncomfortable situation to be in (I was there once). You don't say whether kids are on the table, but at her age she's at the point where if she wants kids, she needs to get on it now. In the kindest way, you are wasting her time. And yours, too.
posted by mippy at 8:36 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
That sticks out to me. I've just turned 30 and I've found I'm thinking a lot more about the future than I did before - if I thought my SO was on a different page, I'd find it really difficult, particularly if I loved them and didn't want to break up with them - it's a really uncomfortable situation to be in (I was there once). You don't say whether kids are on the table, but at her age she's at the point where if she wants kids, she needs to get on it now. In the kindest way, you are wasting her time. And yours, too.
posted by mippy at 8:36 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Then there's the whole, "psycho-bitch" component. Exactly what about that is so sexy? Is it that she's acting "nuts" about you? It has nothing to do with YOU per se, it's how she'd act with any man in her life.
This is a massive bunch of wank.
She might be unstable, yes, and what she's done is clearly a red flag (as it should be). But essentially being strung along really, really fucks with your head. At the risk of being over-sharing, there is someone who may well think I'm the biggest psycho-bitch on the planet, when actually I was in a relationship with someone who didn't want to be there, whom I was too infatuated with to notice (enough to excuse some pretty shitty behaviour and a whole lot of gaslighting) and while I was going through some health problems and the death of a parent. One of those things alone would have driven me to behaviour less than sane, but stick it all together and you have a recipe for disaster and crying in public places. And one that was unique to the time and place. This woman is probably feeling incredibly insecure, and I bet in a relationship that was healthy (I'm afraid given the mismatch between what you both want means this has turned unhealthy) I doubt she'd act like this - or at least check herself severely first.
posted by mippy at 8:42 AM on June 12, 2012 [19 favorites]
This is a massive bunch of wank.
She might be unstable, yes, and what she's done is clearly a red flag (as it should be). But essentially being strung along really, really fucks with your head. At the risk of being over-sharing, there is someone who may well think I'm the biggest psycho-bitch on the planet, when actually I was in a relationship with someone who didn't want to be there, whom I was too infatuated with to notice (enough to excuse some pretty shitty behaviour and a whole lot of gaslighting) and while I was going through some health problems and the death of a parent. One of those things alone would have driven me to behaviour less than sane, but stick it all together and you have a recipe for disaster and crying in public places. And one that was unique to the time and place. This woman is probably feeling incredibly insecure, and I bet in a relationship that was healthy (I'm afraid given the mismatch between what you both want means this has turned unhealthy) I doubt she'd act like this - or at least check herself severely first.
posted by mippy at 8:42 AM on June 12, 2012 [19 favorites]
The problem with making it "100% crystal clear" yet still keeping her around is, she may very well stay hoping you'll change your mind. I know someone who has been strung along for 25 years by a guy who has been clear that he isn't interested in getting married to her, but the relationship is otherwise good enough she keeps hoping eventually he'll come around.
I get what you're saying but if the person that you're referencing stuck around for 25 years because they choose not to believe her boyfriend when he told her that he didn't want to get married, then she needs to take responsibility for that. To me being strung along implies that the boyfriend was either not being straightforward about his desire for marriage or outright lying to her. These are adult women that we're talking about. However I do agree that in both the case of the OP and the one that you reference above, a clean break would be for the best. I just wanted to add the proviso that if for some reason the OP choose not to follow the advise here that he needed to end it, that he at least needs to have a long talk about their individual relationship expectations and specifically how they diverge.
posted by kaybdc at 8:42 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
I get what you're saying but if the person that you're referencing stuck around for 25 years because they choose not to believe her boyfriend when he told her that he didn't want to get married, then she needs to take responsibility for that. To me being strung along implies that the boyfriend was either not being straightforward about his desire for marriage or outright lying to her. These are adult women that we're talking about. However I do agree that in both the case of the OP and the one that you reference above, a clean break would be for the best. I just wanted to add the proviso that if for some reason the OP choose not to follow the advise here that he needed to end it, that he at least needs to have a long talk about their individual relationship expectations and specifically how they diverge.
posted by kaybdc at 8:42 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
You don't want a life partner, I assume this means that you want to be free to "play the field." But do you want to drag an endless succession of sex-partners through your child's life? Are you just looking for a succession of casual flings, since you apparently feel you missed out on that when you were younger? Chances are that you won't find too many women your age who are still into casual fling mode.
OK, so her behavior sounds problematic, but if we heard her side of the story maybe yours could be described similarly. you've been having hot sex with this woman for two years, you've let her develop a relationship with your child, but you're not ready to make a commitment. the longer you continue to have the hot sex with her, the longer you let her hang out with your kid, the more this is a problem.
posted by mareli at 8:43 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
OK, so her behavior sounds problematic, but if we heard her side of the story maybe yours could be described similarly. you've been having hot sex with this woman for two years, you've let her develop a relationship with your child, but you're not ready to make a commitment. the longer you continue to have the hot sex with her, the longer you let her hang out with your kid, the more this is a problem.
posted by mareli at 8:43 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
(And by saying that, I'm not blaming you for her appalling behaviour - just that the dynamic is all wrong and if someone's already a bit paranoid or insecure, they will start freaking out. On some level, she knows you're not there for the long term.)
posted by mippy at 8:44 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mippy at 8:44 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't want to pile on, but I was in a somewhat similar situation with my last girlfriend, not in that she was doing crazy, dangerous things, but in that for 2 years, I was sending her very mixed signals about really liking her but not committing to her, and it really ate away at her. Her way of reacting was to basically withdraw into herself and become increasingly insecure, it may be that your girlfriend's behavior is her way of responding to this lack of committment.
We broke up several months ago, but we've maintained contact, and its pretty clear that she's a much happier, stable person now that she's out of this relationship and in a relationship where the guy is committing to her in the way that she needed.
So I'm not saying you should break up with her necessarily, but you have to choose. Commit to her and it's possible some (or most) of this behavior will die down, or let her go and find someone who can give her what she's really looking for.
posted by tokaidanshi at 8:58 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
We broke up several months ago, but we've maintained contact, and its pretty clear that she's a much happier, stable person now that she's out of this relationship and in a relationship where the guy is committing to her in the way that she needed.
So I'm not saying you should break up with her necessarily, but you have to choose. Commit to her and it's possible some (or most) of this behavior will die down, or let her go and find someone who can give her what she's really looking for.
posted by tokaidanshi at 8:58 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
I call BS on putting any blame on Anon for this behavior. I agree that it's not a smart double-standard to say that these actions would only be threatening if the genders are reversed. They are threatening, period. Similarly there's nothing that Anon can be doing that makes this okay, any more than "being a tease" would justify sexual assault or "talking back" would justify hitting.
Yes, when one person is so much more into it than the other then the smart and ethical thing for BOTH parties is to take steps to end it. But everyone needs to respect everyone else as an adult with self-control and integrity and let them choose to behave with dignity.
As far as whether you should end it, good grod man, why SHOULDN'T you end it? Just the fact that you don't want a life partner demands the question be asked "then why are you in that relationship after two years?" Because I hate to break it to you but the odds are you've likely got about 50 years left at most. So you've dropped about 5% of your remaining time on this person.
So either you're coasting or you're wrestling with the fact that what you want to be in isn't what you think you should want to be in - perhaps 'life partner' doesn't mean what you think it means. Because two years isn't a fling anymore; two years is all your friends know each other and people expect that inviting you somewhere means inviting her. Two years doesn't have to mean you're going to be together forever but it's past the point where any rational person thinks this is a passing fancy.
You need to end this for everyone's sake and safety and get your head together.
posted by phearlez at 9:00 AM on June 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
Yes, when one person is so much more into it than the other then the smart and ethical thing for BOTH parties is to take steps to end it. But everyone needs to respect everyone else as an adult with self-control and integrity and let them choose to behave with dignity.
As far as whether you should end it, good grod man, why SHOULDN'T you end it? Just the fact that you don't want a life partner demands the question be asked "then why are you in that relationship after two years?" Because I hate to break it to you but the odds are you've likely got about 50 years left at most. So you've dropped about 5% of your remaining time on this person.
So either you're coasting or you're wrestling with the fact that what you want to be in isn't what you think you should want to be in - perhaps 'life partner' doesn't mean what you think it means. Because two years isn't a fling anymore; two years is all your friends know each other and people expect that inviting you somewhere means inviting her. Two years doesn't have to mean you're going to be together forever but it's past the point where any rational person thinks this is a passing fancy.
You need to end this for everyone's sake and safety and get your head together.
posted by phearlez at 9:00 AM on June 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
So, were I in my 20s and asking this question, I already know what the answer would be.
I don't think the fact that you're older than your 20s has any bearing on this issue. You are being mistreated in this relationship, and you should end it. If anything, the fact that you have a child who may eventually witness this behaviour makes it even more crucial that you end this. If the two of you had similar goals for how the relationship should be, it may be worth going to couples' counselling, but you yourself said that she wants a life partner and you do not. So it seems the only way to go is to end it. I'm sorry.
posted by barnoley at 9:04 AM on June 12, 2012
I don't think the fact that you're older than your 20s has any bearing on this issue. You are being mistreated in this relationship, and you should end it. If anything, the fact that you have a child who may eventually witness this behaviour makes it even more crucial that you end this. If the two of you had similar goals for how the relationship should be, it may be worth going to couples' counselling, but you yourself said that she wants a life partner and you do not. So it seems the only way to go is to end it. I'm sorry.
posted by barnoley at 9:04 AM on June 12, 2012
A lot of the behavior you describe here would be unacceptable at any age, regardless of the relationship's trajectory, or what each partner wants from life and one another. Also, this isn't an isolated incident. After all, we might completely lose it at one time or another, but this is a pattern of behavior. This is part of who she is and how she approaches the world. This is at odds with who you are and the person you want your child to be. I know that you said she's amazing with your kid, and she very well may be, but these incidents and feelings will seep further into your interactions and your child will bear witness to all of it.
If you both wanted the same thing from this relationship, I might suggest couples counseling to address her anger and jealousy issues, but the truth is that you don't. While there is nothing wrong with not wanting a life partner, this is probably a contributing factor. It's not an excuse at all, mind you, but probably helps fuel her moments of anger and jealousy. She probably has agreed to this and invested in the relationship thinking you would change your mind about a life commitment, which was her mistake, but even if she resigns herself to this never changing, her resentment will only continue to simmer.
You both deserve what you truly want and, unfortunately, you cannot get it from each other. Couple that major disconnect with her anger and jealousy issues, and it seems clear that walking away is the only choice, as difficult as it will be. Best of luck to you.
posted by katemcd at 9:21 AM on June 12, 2012
If you both wanted the same thing from this relationship, I might suggest couples counseling to address her anger and jealousy issues, but the truth is that you don't. While there is nothing wrong with not wanting a life partner, this is probably a contributing factor. It's not an excuse at all, mind you, but probably helps fuel her moments of anger and jealousy. She probably has agreed to this and invested in the relationship thinking you would change your mind about a life commitment, which was her mistake, but even if she resigns herself to this never changing, her resentment will only continue to simmer.
You both deserve what you truly want and, unfortunately, you cannot get it from each other. Couple that major disconnect with her anger and jealousy issues, and it seems clear that walking away is the only choice, as difficult as it will be. Best of luck to you.
posted by katemcd at 9:21 AM on June 12, 2012
Regardless of age, you both have needs that are going unfulfilled in this relationship. Yes, break up with her.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:24 AM on June 12, 2012
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:24 AM on June 12, 2012
It sounds like you two are horribly matched as relationship partners. One of the smartest things my husband has ever said about relationships is that "everyone is fucked up; the key is to find someone whose fucked-up-ness meshes with yours."
Yes, your child will probably miss her. But my guess is that your child won't miss her like he'd miss a stepmother, because that's not their relationship (as you describe it); he'll miss her like he'd miss a teacher he really liked, or a kind and friendly neighbor who moved away. Loss is part of life. Your staying in a relationship this dysfunctional because you think it's good for your child is honestly overdoing your parental responsibility.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:24 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, your child will probably miss her. But my guess is that your child won't miss her like he'd miss a stepmother, because that's not their relationship (as you describe it); he'll miss her like he'd miss a teacher he really liked, or a kind and friendly neighbor who moved away. Loss is part of life. Your staying in a relationship this dysfunctional because you think it's good for your child is honestly overdoing your parental responsibility.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:24 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
the sex is amazing
Don't let this sway you. A lot of that is just getting older. In your thirties and forties, people have grown up and gotten comfortable with their bodies. Sex just is better, even if our bodies aren't. I would say, since sex is important to you (it isn't for everybody), avoid any relationship where sex ISN'T amazing. It's not unique or worth putting up with crap for.
posted by msalt at 9:26 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Don't let this sway you. A lot of that is just getting older. In your thirties and forties, people have grown up and gotten comfortable with their bodies. Sex just is better, even if our bodies aren't. I would say, since sex is important to you (it isn't for everybody), avoid any relationship where sex ISN'T amazing. It's not unique or worth putting up with crap for.
posted by msalt at 9:26 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Late 30s is still so, so young. You could very possibly be alive for another 50-60 years. Go find the person that you want to spend that time with!
posted by coupdefoudre at 9:29 AM on June 12, 2012
posted by coupdefoudre at 9:29 AM on June 12, 2012
Leave. Now. What she is doing is not great, no (red flag 1). But you don't mention even having talked to her about it (red flag 2).
She's great with your kid? Does that mean you all are doing the icky, temporaty 'mock family' thing, where you are cooking together, going on outings together, etc.? Then your actions are speaking louder than your words and she is still being lead to believe there is a possibility of permanence (red flag 3).
You are not good for each other. She fights way too dangerously to be seen in front of your kid, you are leading her on to a future that isn't there.
(and, yes, I have known many people who have been led on in relationships. It's caused many of them to act out in ways they normally would not.)
posted by Vaike at 9:46 AM on June 12, 2012 [6 favorites]
She's great with your kid? Does that mean you all are doing the icky, temporaty 'mock family' thing, where you are cooking together, going on outings together, etc.? Then your actions are speaking louder than your words and she is still being lead to believe there is a possibility of permanence (red flag 3).
You are not good for each other. She fights way too dangerously to be seen in front of your kid, you are leading her on to a future that isn't there.
(and, yes, I have known many people who have been led on in relationships. It's caused many of them to act out in ways they normally would not.)
posted by Vaike at 9:46 AM on June 12, 2012 [6 favorites]
I think the issue of whose fault this is is a total red herring. It doesn't matter if she's crazy or you're a jerk, or any combination of the two. This relationship isn't working, and the fact that you're in your 30s is not a good reason to stay in a relationship that isn't working.
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:51 AM on June 12, 2012
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:51 AM on June 12, 2012
Honestly, I was wondering what her problem was until I hit
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together
Why are you dating? I'd feel jealous too, if I were her. The fighting and wrestling keys away from you is inexcusable, but could be possibly solved with therapy, if you were actually interested in a potentially permanent relationship.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:59 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really, and we don't live together
Why are you dating? I'd feel jealous too, if I were her. The fighting and wrestling keys away from you is inexcusable, but could be possibly solved with therapy, if you were actually interested in a potentially permanent relationship.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:59 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
yes, I have known many people who have been led on in relationships. It's caused many of them to act out in ways they normally would not.
Exactly. It's still on her, but making someone feel insecure in a relationship can make them all kinds of crazy (especially since you have a kid and all and I'm sure she can see what a life-partnership would look like with you). The fact that you don't seem to particularly like her that much is probably just contributing.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:02 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
Exactly. It's still on her, but making someone feel insecure in a relationship can make them all kinds of crazy (especially since you have a kid and all and I'm sure she can see what a life-partnership would look like with you). The fact that you don't seem to particularly like her that much is probably just contributing.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:02 AM on June 12, 2012 [4 favorites]
If you want to improve your life situation, you might want to put your energy into learning how to be a better parent rather than into a sketchy relationship.
This, a thousand times.
That doesn't mean you have to give up your own life and new relationships, but ending this dysfunctional one will allow you to focus more on your parental role and to think about what type of relationship would be a model for your child. Don't kid yourself, even if the two of you don't do the crazy in front of your kid, the kid knows what's up.
You wouldn't settle before, so why are you settling now? Shake yourself up out of that middle age stupor and find someone who acts her age instead of like a teenaged drama queen. Your relationship with her is obviously not good for either one of you.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:20 AM on June 12, 2012
This, a thousand times.
That doesn't mean you have to give up your own life and new relationships, but ending this dysfunctional one will allow you to focus more on your parental role and to think about what type of relationship would be a model for your child. Don't kid yourself, even if the two of you don't do the crazy in front of your kid, the kid knows what's up.
You wouldn't settle before, so why are you settling now? Shake yourself up out of that middle age stupor and find someone who acts her age instead of like a teenaged drama queen. Your relationship with her is obviously not good for either one of you.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:20 AM on June 12, 2012
If you don't want a life partner, for God's sake, let her go find someone who does. If you decide you want to make this relationship a going concern, though, go into counseling with an open and sincere heart. My husband and I had fights every bit as epic as the ones you describe, and two years of counseling pre-engagement really helped us learn how to not do that.
But, yes. Either end it, or fix it. Fixing it is going to require a lot of work on your end, but will probably also make you a better parent, so there's that.
posted by KathrynT at 10:25 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
But, yes. Either end it, or fix it. Fixing it is going to require a lot of work on your end, but will probably also make you a better parent, so there's that.
posted by KathrynT at 10:25 AM on June 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Other details - she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really,
Do her a favor and break up with her, so she can find someone who does want a life partner. This relationship isn't fair to either of you, or your child.
posted by MexicanYenta at 10:40 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Do her a favor and break up with her, so she can find someone who does want a life partner. This relationship isn't fair to either of you, or your child.
posted by MexicanYenta at 10:40 AM on June 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Pardon me for being totally skeptical here but someone has to do it. It would help if I knew how long your marriage was and what the divorce was about and how long ago it was but I read you as, for what ever reason, someone who is highly ambivalent about relationships. It could be because your marriage failed, or it could be that your marriage failed because of your ambivalence, but it's sure here now in that you're asking us, who don't know the whole story, "Should I stay or should I go?"
It's also pretty clear to me (and I've seen this countless times) that your girlfriend has abandonment issues. You think you're just driving off to avoid a fight and she sees herself being abandoned. Why she's with someone who has unambiguously stated he doesn't want a life partner could be explained as follows: She's skeptical too. Like me, she doesn't believe what you say. Your actions read to her as someone afraid of relationships but who quite often really wants to be in this particular one, at least until he notices it is one. Her fantasy is that she'll be the one to help you get past that.
Practically speaking, she needs to confront her abandonment fears because they create a feeling of threatening clingy-ness even when shes not acting them out in an extreme manner which, in turn, drives you away. But really, she needs to work them, out for herself.
As for you, yeah, 30s is young, but I can see you in a similar position a decade or two from now. Do you "eventually" want a life partner? Just not her? Just not for a few years yet? What's your plan? If she got over her abandonment problems, would she now be ideal? Or would you not feel wanted enough? Or are you the kind who likes to always work at feeling wanted and doesn't value it for free? In other words, the way out of your dilemma is to know yourself better. We can't tell you who you are and what to do, though we can, maybe, make you feel less guilty about breaking off with someone who will likely freak the fuck out when you do.
posted by Obscure Reference at 10:48 AM on June 12, 2012 [16 favorites]
It's also pretty clear to me (and I've seen this countless times) that your girlfriend has abandonment issues. You think you're just driving off to avoid a fight and she sees herself being abandoned. Why she's with someone who has unambiguously stated he doesn't want a life partner could be explained as follows: She's skeptical too. Like me, she doesn't believe what you say. Your actions read to her as someone afraid of relationships but who quite often really wants to be in this particular one, at least until he notices it is one. Her fantasy is that she'll be the one to help you get past that.
Practically speaking, she needs to confront her abandonment fears because they create a feeling of threatening clingy-ness even when shes not acting them out in an extreme manner which, in turn, drives you away. But really, she needs to work them, out for herself.
As for you, yeah, 30s is young, but I can see you in a similar position a decade or two from now. Do you "eventually" want a life partner? Just not her? Just not for a few years yet? What's your plan? If she got over her abandonment problems, would she now be ideal? Or would you not feel wanted enough? Or are you the kind who likes to always work at feeling wanted and doesn't value it for free? In other words, the way out of your dilemma is to know yourself better. We can't tell you who you are and what to do, though we can, maybe, make you feel less guilty about breaking off with someone who will likely freak the fuck out when you do.
posted by Obscure Reference at 10:48 AM on June 12, 2012 [16 favorites]
she really wants to have a life partner, I don't really
You just answered your own question. You two have a fundamental incompatibility which is prima facie evidence of a relationship with no future, and one that raises a rebuttable presumption of subsequent unhealthy behaviors.
But I wanted to add that I dated someone once who had epic fights with me, and when I ended things, he said, "This is what people in love do! They fight! All the time!"
Um. No.
Or, more accurately, this is not what THIS PERSON IN LOVE does. If that's the sort of loving relationship that he wanted to have, fine. He needed to find someone else who communicated through screaming and arguing and nagging. That's not me, and I wont tolerate it in a relationship. There are people out there who, for whatever reason, believe that these are totally appropriate behaviors. And maybe they are. But if that's right then I'm happy to be wrong. And it sounds like you are too.
posted by jph at 10:49 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
You just answered your own question. You two have a fundamental incompatibility which is prima facie evidence of a relationship with no future, and one that raises a rebuttable presumption of subsequent unhealthy behaviors.
But I wanted to add that I dated someone once who had epic fights with me, and when I ended things, he said, "This is what people in love do! They fight! All the time!"
Um. No.
Or, more accurately, this is not what THIS PERSON IN LOVE does. If that's the sort of loving relationship that he wanted to have, fine. He needed to find someone else who communicated through screaming and arguing and nagging. That's not me, and I wont tolerate it in a relationship. There are people out there who, for whatever reason, believe that these are totally appropriate behaviors. And maybe they are. But if that's right then I'm happy to be wrong. And it sounds like you are too.
posted by jph at 10:49 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Let her go so she can find someone who doesn't make her feel this way, and you can find someone who doesn't make you feel this way. Similar interests and worldview are rather commonplace and can be extremely easily found on dating websites. Good sex is also not all that rare. Many women are good with children.
It sounds like you appreciate all the things she, as a woman, is good for, but you aren't really interested in the other, deeper stuff, the things that are most important to her. It also sounds like you haven't been interested in communicating these deeper thoughts to her, and perhaps are coming off as aloof/distant/evasive. Having recently been in a situation like this myself (though thankfully much, much more short term) I know how it feels to be driven crazy by that sort of thing.
Yes, you should break up. At this point, with all these things in mind, it would be cruel not to. If you already know you don't want to be with this woman forever, and you've already been with her for two years, what are you waiting for?
posted by wondermouse at 11:16 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you appreciate all the things she, as a woman, is good for, but you aren't really interested in the other, deeper stuff, the things that are most important to her. It also sounds like you haven't been interested in communicating these deeper thoughts to her, and perhaps are coming off as aloof/distant/evasive. Having recently been in a situation like this myself (though thankfully much, much more short term) I know how it feels to be driven crazy by that sort of thing.
Yes, you should break up. At this point, with all these things in mind, it would be cruel not to. If you already know you don't want to be with this woman forever, and you've already been with her for two years, what are you waiting for?
posted by wondermouse at 11:16 AM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
First of all, anyone calling the thirties "middle-aged" seems kind of crazy to me. That's still young in my book. Heck, I'm over 40 and I still feel young!
Second of all, I agree with everyone who said that you not wanting a life partner, and her wanting one, kind of makes the rest of it irrelevant. Whether or not it's driving her to behave this way doesn't even matter. Why don't you find a woman who wants a more casual just-dating or FWB kind of relationship? It's pretty normal to feel, after a divorce, that you don't want to get into anything serious for a while. Relationships that are explicitly transitional for both parties can really be healing and fun, too. I'm sure there's a woman out there who wants what you want.
Also, everything Obscure Reference said.
posted by xenophile at 12:04 PM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Second of all, I agree with everyone who said that you not wanting a life partner, and her wanting one, kind of makes the rest of it irrelevant. Whether or not it's driving her to behave this way doesn't even matter. Why don't you find a woman who wants a more casual just-dating or FWB kind of relationship? It's pretty normal to feel, after a divorce, that you don't want to get into anything serious for a while. Relationships that are explicitly transitional for both parties can really be healing and fun, too. I'm sure there's a woman out there who wants what you want.
Also, everything Obscure Reference said.
posted by xenophile at 12:04 PM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
I met my wife when I was 35 (she was 30 at the time).
If we fought even half as much as it sounds like you two do, I'd dump her quick-smart (especially if I had a kid). No one needs that bullshit in their lives.
posted by Pecinpah at 1:45 PM on June 12, 2012
If we fought even half as much as it sounds like you two do, I'd dump her quick-smart (especially if I had a kid). No one needs that bullshit in their lives.
posted by Pecinpah at 1:45 PM on June 12, 2012
corb: "If your child is a boy, do you want to teach him that this is the best he can hope for? That if he wants to be loved, he'd better put up with this kind of behavior and just learn to suffer through it?
Let me tell you: without intervention, it does not get better from here."
It doesn't matter whether your child is a boy or not. I agree that you don't want to teach a child that it's OK to put up with abuse because it's what you have to do to be loved. It's equally important to teach a child that it's not OK to abuse someone just because they let you. As others have pointed out, you are exposed if her behaviour escalates and you will almost certainly be blamed if any authorities get involved. What impact will that have on your ability to stay involved in your child's life?
Also, yeah, it doesn't get better from here on - it most likely gets worse. I won't suggest that you dump her, because there are obviously reasons you are together. But you need to lay down some boundaries and expectations clearly, unambiguously and quickly and let your partner decide if she still wants to be with you on that basis. It's not fair to all three parties involved to continue a charade of a relationship.
posted by dg at 8:24 PM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Let me tell you: without intervention, it does not get better from here."
It doesn't matter whether your child is a boy or not. I agree that you don't want to teach a child that it's OK to put up with abuse because it's what you have to do to be loved. It's equally important to teach a child that it's not OK to abuse someone just because they let you. As others have pointed out, you are exposed if her behaviour escalates and you will almost certainly be blamed if any authorities get involved. What impact will that have on your ability to stay involved in your child's life?
Also, yeah, it doesn't get better from here on - it most likely gets worse. I won't suggest that you dump her, because there are obviously reasons you are together. But you need to lay down some boundaries and expectations clearly, unambiguously and quickly and let your partner decide if she still wants to be with you on that basis. It's not fair to all three parties involved to continue a charade of a relationship.
posted by dg at 8:24 PM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Compatibility issues aside, if anyone pulled that sort of behaviour with me, it would be our last visit.
posted by ead at 8:54 PM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ead at 8:54 PM on June 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
She needs to figure out her jealousy and fight issues and then find someone who wants to be her life partner.
I think you were clear that you didn't want to be her life partner but she chose to not hear that. And here she is.
(i am always amazed when women give so much to someone who hasn't even agreed to being the right life partner for them and then get surprised when he leaves after a few years.)
posted by pakora1 at 7:45 AM on June 12, 2012 [5 favorites]