At what speeds should I downshift when slowing down in a manual transmission?
April 26, 2012 7:54 AM Subscribe
I'm in the process of learning how to drive a stick shift. I am looking for some tips on when to shift to a lower gear when you have to unexpectedly slow down when going at high speeds.
So let's say I'm on the highway, and then all of sudden someone cuts me off, or there's construction, or I have to slow down for some reason. I know: clutch in, brake in to slow down quickly (same as automatic, just with the extra left foot). What should I be looking at to figure out what gear I need to be in once I'm done braking and need to keep going on the highway--the speed, or the RPM? Even if the RPM is technically best, is there anyway I can just go off I general xxx speed=yyy gear rule?
The speed limit will be 65 or 70, so I'll be in 5th gear. So for minor speed adjustments, I can brake without clutching down to, say 55, 50? Or if I put the clutch in because I thought I'd have to brake harder, but only slowed down to 55, I can just let it back out, right?
At what speed do I need to go down to 4th gear? Is there a minimum or maximum RPM I should be at when downshifting?
Most of my practice, which has gone well for the most part, has been of the around town variety (so 1st three gears only). I've been on the highway once before, I did ok getting off the exit ramp--but it was late, and the hwy was pretty empty. The owner of this stick shift will be sitting next to me for advice/directions, and I'm normally a quite good driver (of automatic cars). Maybe I knew the answers to the questions above at some point...but I can't think of them right now because of my nervousness; maybe it will come back to me when I'm behind the wheel? Any last minute advice would be much appreciated, and go far in allaying my nervousness (had horrible driving nightmares all last night) about my upcoming roadtrip. So thanks!
So let's say I'm on the highway, and then all of sudden someone cuts me off, or there's construction, or I have to slow down for some reason. I know: clutch in, brake in to slow down quickly (same as automatic, just with the extra left foot). What should I be looking at to figure out what gear I need to be in once I'm done braking and need to keep going on the highway--the speed, or the RPM? Even if the RPM is technically best, is there anyway I can just go off I general xxx speed=yyy gear rule?
The speed limit will be 65 or 70, so I'll be in 5th gear. So for minor speed adjustments, I can brake without clutching down to, say 55, 50? Or if I put the clutch in because I thought I'd have to brake harder, but only slowed down to 55, I can just let it back out, right?
At what speed do I need to go down to 4th gear? Is there a minimum or maximum RPM I should be at when downshifting?
Most of my practice, which has gone well for the most part, has been of the around town variety (so 1st three gears only). I've been on the highway once before, I did ok getting off the exit ramp--but it was late, and the hwy was pretty empty. The owner of this stick shift will be sitting next to me for advice/directions, and I'm normally a quite good driver (of automatic cars). Maybe I knew the answers to the questions above at some point...but I can't think of them right now because of my nervousness; maybe it will come back to me when I'm behind the wheel? Any last minute advice would be much appreciated, and go far in allaying my nervousness (had horrible driving nightmares all last night) about my upcoming roadtrip. So thanks!
This all depends on the gear ratio of the car you're driving, but I'd say focus at which speeds you shifted up (i.e. where the RPMs were a little high) and maybe subtract 3-5MPH if you're feeling nervous.
As for highway driving, with the manuals I've driven, the only time I had to downshift suddenly when going the speed limit is in the thankfully rare occasions I had to bring the car to a screeching halt. If it's just slowing down or coming onto an offramp, follow the rule above, although with smoothly flowing traffic it's unlikely you'll be coming out of 5th at all.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:10 AM on April 26, 2012
As for highway driving, with the manuals I've driven, the only time I had to downshift suddenly when going the speed limit is in the thankfully rare occasions I had to bring the car to a screeching halt. If it's just slowing down or coming onto an offramp, follow the rule above, although with smoothly flowing traffic it's unlikely you'll be coming out of 5th at all.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:10 AM on April 26, 2012
Oh, and yes, you don't need to change gear just because you depressed the clutch, you can certainly go from 75 down to 55 by braking and just put it back into 5th gear. Alternatively, you can use the engine to help you brake, by downshifting as well as braking.
posted by Grither at 8:11 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Grither at 8:11 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't worry too much. The last thing you ought to be worrying about on a highway/motorway/autobahn is gracefully changing gear whilst braking in an emergency. My instructor was always pretty clear that, when you're braking hard with the clutch in, you forget about the gears completely until you've finished braking. It only takes half a second to choose a gear afterwards. If you're just slowing down gently (which is the only way you should be slowing on a highway/motorway/autobahn under normal conditions), you won't need to use clutch until your speed dictates a gear change.
I'd tend to change down to 4th somewhere below 40, and down to 3rd at about 25, then 2nd at, say, 15. Your specific gearbox and engine will have their own figures, but most cars I've owned would have been ok at those speeds.
posted by pipeski at 8:13 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'd tend to change down to 4th somewhere below 40, and down to 3rd at about 25, then 2nd at, say, 15. Your specific gearbox and engine will have their own figures, but most cars I've owned would have been ok at those speeds.
posted by pipeski at 8:13 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: 'So let's say I'm on the highway, and then all of sudden someone cuts me off, or there's construction, or I have to slow down for some reason. I know: clutch in, brake in to slow down quickly (same as automatic, just with the extra left foot)'
Well, you should brake first, slow down to your chosen speed, then clutch in, select gear for speed, clutch out, gas on. In emergency stops, for example, you only dip the clutch right at the end of the movement to stop the car from stalling since you *want* the extra engine braking that keeping the gears engaged gives you (as well as extra control). Doing it the other way round (clutch in, brake on, gear select) means that you'll cover a lot more ground with the clutch down, something which you don't want to do. Get the car to speed X and then choose appropriate gear, not the other way around.
"The speed limit will be 65 or 70, so I'll be in 5th gear. So for minor speed adjustments, I can brake without clutching down to, say 55, 50? Or if I put the clutch in because I thought I'd have to brake harder, but only slowed down to 55, I can just let it back out, right?"
For minor speed adjustments, you can either brake or let the car slow down naturally (through engine braking) to your chosen speed. Once you're there, you put the gas on to maintain that speed. But you're right, you don't need to put the clutch down if you're going from 70 to 50. The second part of this makes me think that you're getting mixed up with the order of operations. If you're slowing down, you don't want to put the clutch (there are some special cases where I'll dip the clutch, like going round a 90 degree turn and I want to coast around it, but that's a rare situation). Brake first, then clutch if you're going too slow and change gear.
In terms of what speed matches what gear, generally, you'll be ok in 5th gear down to about 35-40 mph, lower than than and you want to get into 4th gear at about 30 mph, 3rd gear down to about 20mph and so on down to 1st. As you get more experienced, you'll be able to listen to the engine revs and figure out roughly where you are and what gear you need to be in.
posted by Scottie_Bob at 8:13 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Well, you should brake first, slow down to your chosen speed, then clutch in, select gear for speed, clutch out, gas on. In emergency stops, for example, you only dip the clutch right at the end of the movement to stop the car from stalling since you *want* the extra engine braking that keeping the gears engaged gives you (as well as extra control). Doing it the other way round (clutch in, brake on, gear select) means that you'll cover a lot more ground with the clutch down, something which you don't want to do. Get the car to speed X and then choose appropriate gear, not the other way around.
"The speed limit will be 65 or 70, so I'll be in 5th gear. So for minor speed adjustments, I can brake without clutching down to, say 55, 50? Or if I put the clutch in because I thought I'd have to brake harder, but only slowed down to 55, I can just let it back out, right?"
For minor speed adjustments, you can either brake or let the car slow down naturally (through engine braking) to your chosen speed. Once you're there, you put the gas on to maintain that speed. But you're right, you don't need to put the clutch down if you're going from 70 to 50. The second part of this makes me think that you're getting mixed up with the order of operations. If you're slowing down, you don't want to put the clutch (there are some special cases where I'll dip the clutch, like going round a 90 degree turn and I want to coast around it, but that's a rare situation). Brake first, then clutch if you're going too slow and change gear.
In terms of what speed matches what gear, generally, you'll be ok in 5th gear down to about 35-40 mph, lower than than and you want to get into 4th gear at about 30 mph, 3rd gear down to about 20mph and so on down to 1st. As you get more experienced, you'll be able to listen to the engine revs and figure out roughly where you are and what gear you need to be in.
posted by Scottie_Bob at 8:13 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Technically, the tachometer is the correct tool to use. RPMs determine what gear you should be in. Every motor has a shifting "sweet spot" which the owners manual should address (the tach may have shifting zone markers on it, too.) In general, smaller engines rev faster, and it's usually better to err on the side of higher revs than "lugging" the motor (being in too high a gear and causing the engine to go "kachug, kachug, kachug".
For braking: there's a school of thought now (I don't subscribe) that, since brakes are cheaper than clutches, that you should never downshift to slow down. With experience, you'll learn what gear you need to be in after braking. ( if you are making gentle speed adjustments on the highway, you'll rarely need to get out of 5th, BTW.) I believe that learning to downshift will actually put you in the correct gear more often than just braking. Also, I've driven manual cars for forty years, and the only real "rule" I use is that you generally want to be in 2nd gear going into a typical curve.
With some driving time, it will all get to be natural. Your shifting will be way more "seat of the pants" than you can imagine now.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:13 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
For braking: there's a school of thought now (I don't subscribe) that, since brakes are cheaper than clutches, that you should never downshift to slow down. With experience, you'll learn what gear you need to be in after braking. ( if you are making gentle speed adjustments on the highway, you'll rarely need to get out of 5th, BTW.) I believe that learning to downshift will actually put you in the correct gear more often than just braking. Also, I've driven manual cars for forty years, and the only real "rule" I use is that you generally want to be in 2nd gear going into a typical curve.
With some driving time, it will all get to be natural. Your shifting will be way more "seat of the pants" than you can imagine now.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:13 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was taught to not depress the clutch while braking.
At high speeds, it's actually really hard to stall, and in general you should spend as little time in neutral as possible, because with the engine disengaged you can't accelerate quickly if necessary.
The rule of thumb I learned, though, as gear * 10 is the maximum speed for the gear.
posted by BrashTech at 8:15 AM on April 26, 2012
At high speeds, it's actually really hard to stall, and in general you should spend as little time in neutral as possible, because with the engine disengaged you can't accelerate quickly if necessary.
The rule of thumb I learned, though, as gear * 10 is the maximum speed for the gear.
posted by BrashTech at 8:15 AM on April 26, 2012
Rather than try to go by numbers -- speed or RPM -- just go by feel. Let out the clutch and if the car seems to lug or fail to accelerate, you are in too high a gear and need to downshift. After practicing for a while, you will just anticipate the proper gear and it will be come second nature without even thinking about it. Going by numbers is unnecessary and every car you drive will be different. The joke, which is really true, is that if the selected gear doesn't work, try another.
posted by JackFlash at 8:16 AM on April 26, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 8:16 AM on April 26, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Or if I put the clutch in because I thought I'd have to brake harder, but only slowed down to 55, I can just let it back out, right?
You're over thinking it. Under no circumstances should you default to clutching-in when you brake. This is fundamentally bad practice for vehicle dynamics and the clutch should only be down if you are physically moving the lever or coming to a stop. The ONLY time that you really have to clutch in when in an emergency stop is when you get below 15-20mph (even in fifth) because it can stall the engine. So in a panic, just brake and worry about it when your speed comes off or when the panic is over. Any speed above 10-15 mph the clutch should be engaged unless you are actually moving the lever.
General rule of thumb (ie no damage to your car stability or engine):
Don't go into 1st unless you are actually at a stop.
You can use second gear at anything under 15 mph.
You can use Third anything under 20, 4th anything under 40. This will prevent any chance of stalling the engine from being in too high a gear.
Better rule of thumb:
Emergency braking - fuck it all, just brake really hard and then put the clutch down when you are about to stop (<1>
Anything other than hard braking, change down to 4th anything below 50mph is fine, 40mph for third, 20 for second. This will give you decent engine braking and also prevent over revving of the engine.
posted by Brockles at 8:17 AM on April 26, 2012 [13 favorites]
You're over thinking it. Under no circumstances should you default to clutching-in when you brake. This is fundamentally bad practice for vehicle dynamics and the clutch should only be down if you are physically moving the lever or coming to a stop. The ONLY time that you really have to clutch in when in an emergency stop is when you get below 15-20mph (even in fifth) because it can stall the engine. So in a panic, just brake and worry about it when your speed comes off or when the panic is over. Any speed above 10-15 mph the clutch should be engaged unless you are actually moving the lever.
General rule of thumb (ie no damage to your car stability or engine):
Don't go into 1st unless you are actually at a stop.
You can use second gear at anything under 15 mph.
You can use Third anything under 20, 4th anything under 40. This will prevent any chance of stalling the engine from being in too high a gear.
Better rule of thumb:
Emergency braking - fuck it all, just brake really hard and then put the clutch down when you are about to stop (<1>
Anything other than hard braking, change down to 4th anything below 50mph is fine, 40mph for third, 20 for second. This will give you decent engine braking and also prevent over revving of the engine.
posted by Brockles at 8:17 AM on April 26, 2012 [13 favorites]
With some driving time, it will all get to be natural. Your shifting will be way more "seat of the pants" than you can imagine now.
Seconding this. You will totally get use to this with time. All you have to worry about now is not changing down too early (over-revving the engine) or too late (The car will try and stall and do a "Chugga-chugga"-jerky back and forth thing). There is a pretty large margin of speeds between the two points and this will become obvious after a bit of experience.
posted by Brockles at 8:19 AM on April 26, 2012
Seconding this. You will totally get use to this with time. All you have to worry about now is not changing down too early (over-revving the engine) or too late (The car will try and stall and do a "Chugga-chugga"-jerky back and forth thing). There is a pretty large margin of speeds between the two points and this will become obvious after a bit of experience.
posted by Brockles at 8:19 AM on April 26, 2012
Emergency braking - fuck it all, just brake really hard and then put the clutch down when you are about to stop
Only do this if your car has antilock brakes.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:20 AM on April 26, 2012
Only do this if your car has antilock brakes.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:20 AM on April 26, 2012
Brockles: "Under no circumstances should you default to clutching-in when you brake. This is fundamentally bad practice for vehicle dynamics and the clutch should only be down if you are physically moving the lever or coming to a stop."
Yeah, I got into the habit of clutching-in any time I hit the brakes when I was first learning to drive, and I was never able to get rid of it. I can't say for sure that it decreased the lifespan of my clutches, but I blew through them much quicker than more experienced drivers seemed to. If driving a stick is going to be a rare occurrence for you it's probably not a big deal, but if you are switching to a manual full-time, I'd nip that in the bud.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:27 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I got into the habit of clutching-in any time I hit the brakes when I was first learning to drive, and I was never able to get rid of it. I can't say for sure that it decreased the lifespan of my clutches, but I blew through them much quicker than more experienced drivers seemed to. If driving a stick is going to be a rare occurrence for you it's probably not a big deal, but if you are switching to a manual full-time, I'd nip that in the bud.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:27 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Clutching in during a potentially risky situation removes the possibility of you using engine power to escape that situation*. Ideally, you'd brake and simultaneously 'match revs' as you downshift, so you're in a gear for your target speed at the end of your braking. That is to say, if you're merging from a ramp, you want to brake for safe speed in the turn— but be in the gear you wish to exit with by midway in that turn.
Your skill might not be there yet, but developing a stopgap strategy now will make it difficult to reprogram your muscle memory to the correct technique later. For now, keep the car in gear during braking, and if you sense a need to downshift when you apply gas, then downshift. With practice it will become natural and you'll be able to downshift and brake more fluidly.
* because your car has only three ways to move: sideways with steering, decelerate with braking, or accelerate with gas; you shouldn't remove one of those options unless the conditions absolutely dictate otherwise.
posted by a halcyon day at 8:45 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Your skill might not be there yet, but developing a stopgap strategy now will make it difficult to reprogram your muscle memory to the correct technique later. For now, keep the car in gear during braking, and if you sense a need to downshift when you apply gas, then downshift. With practice it will become natural and you'll be able to downshift and brake more fluidly.
* because your car has only three ways to move: sideways with steering, decelerate with braking, or accelerate with gas; you shouldn't remove one of those options unless the conditions absolutely dictate otherwise.
posted by a halcyon day at 8:45 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Brockles is right. There's no reason to put the clutch in while braking. You're just fine slowing down to speed and then selecting a new gear. You don't want to do anything that's going to mess up your brain's ability to brake quickly. Keep that cognitive bandwidth for more important things.
As for shifting itself, don't worry about it. You're never going to damage the car by shifting to 4th gear. On most 5-speed cars, even 3rd gear will take you up to at least 80 mph. Worst case you downshift a bit too far and have more power available than you need. Even redlining an engine briefly is no big deal. My car has 200K on it and gets close to redline merging onto the highway every day. You'll get right it eventually, but the process of learning to downshift isn't destructive.
And engine braking? Totally fine. There's virtually no wear on the clutch downshifting. Ideally you're matching engine speed to road speed, but even if you aren't, all the clutch is doing is changing the engine speed by a couple thousand RPMs, which is *nothing* compared to getting a 3000lb car going from a standstill on an incline. Probably 90% of your clutch life is determined by how you roll off in 1st gear and whether you slip the clutch between shifts. And, IMO, engine braking probably does no real harm to the transmission. It's not applying much force compared to acceleration. Just think of it as gently evening out the wear on the back side of the gears. :P
Back to brakes: If you need to slow unexpectedly, brake HARD then ease off to an appropriate level. The opposite, gradually increasing braking force as you realize the situation is getting worse? Not good. Stay ahead of the curve.
It takes time for the car to settle into hard braking. When your foot goes to the brake, it pushes a piston, which pushes some fluid, which pushes some more pistons on the brakes, which take a fraction of a second to do anything because they're cold and dirty, which slows the wheel, which then transfers force up suspension to the body of the car, which starts to slow, which causes the center of mass of the car to shift forward, which gradually causes the rear of the car to lift and the front suspension to compress, which causes the tire to compress and bite into the ground harder, which is what gives you your peak deceleration. Depending on the car, that can take a long time. Even without antilock brakes, you (smoothly) slam the brakes and quickly back off when to regain the ability to steer the car. When you're using the brakes because you've been caught unaware, you need to default to a panic stop. Not doing that, combined with tailgating, is why you see some yahoo diving onto the shoulder every time you suddenly hit a traffic jam. The corollary to this rule is that keeping people off your rear bumper in traffic is kinda important, because you're going to stop faster than them. Let tailgaters pass.
It drives passengers crazy, but when I suddenly see brake lights in front of me or something catches my eye by the side of the road, my foot starts it's way to the floor. Usually I've only bled a couple MPH by the time my brain recognizes that the guy in front of me is not coming to a screeching halt.
posted by pjaust at 8:57 AM on April 26, 2012 [4 favorites]
As for shifting itself, don't worry about it. You're never going to damage the car by shifting to 4th gear. On most 5-speed cars, even 3rd gear will take you up to at least 80 mph. Worst case you downshift a bit too far and have more power available than you need. Even redlining an engine briefly is no big deal. My car has 200K on it and gets close to redline merging onto the highway every day. You'll get right it eventually, but the process of learning to downshift isn't destructive.
And engine braking? Totally fine. There's virtually no wear on the clutch downshifting. Ideally you're matching engine speed to road speed, but even if you aren't, all the clutch is doing is changing the engine speed by a couple thousand RPMs, which is *nothing* compared to getting a 3000lb car going from a standstill on an incline. Probably 90% of your clutch life is determined by how you roll off in 1st gear and whether you slip the clutch between shifts. And, IMO, engine braking probably does no real harm to the transmission. It's not applying much force compared to acceleration. Just think of it as gently evening out the wear on the back side of the gears. :P
Back to brakes: If you need to slow unexpectedly, brake HARD then ease off to an appropriate level. The opposite, gradually increasing braking force as you realize the situation is getting worse? Not good. Stay ahead of the curve.
It takes time for the car to settle into hard braking. When your foot goes to the brake, it pushes a piston, which pushes some fluid, which pushes some more pistons on the brakes, which take a fraction of a second to do anything because they're cold and dirty, which slows the wheel, which then transfers force up suspension to the body of the car, which starts to slow, which causes the center of mass of the car to shift forward, which gradually causes the rear of the car to lift and the front suspension to compress, which causes the tire to compress and bite into the ground harder, which is what gives you your peak deceleration. Depending on the car, that can take a long time. Even without antilock brakes, you (smoothly) slam the brakes and quickly back off when to regain the ability to steer the car. When you're using the brakes because you've been caught unaware, you need to default to a panic stop. Not doing that, combined with tailgating, is why you see some yahoo diving onto the shoulder every time you suddenly hit a traffic jam. The corollary to this rule is that keeping people off your rear bumper in traffic is kinda important, because you're going to stop faster than them. Let tailgaters pass.
It drives passengers crazy, but when I suddenly see brake lights in front of me or something catches my eye by the side of the road, my foot starts it's way to the floor. Usually I've only bled a couple MPH by the time my brain recognizes that the guy in front of me is not coming to a screeching halt.
posted by pjaust at 8:57 AM on April 26, 2012 [4 favorites]
Clutch is for shifting (or stopping). Break is for breaking. The two are independent functions, and you can (should?) train yourself to break without using the clutch.
posted by introp at 9:01 AM on April 26, 2012
posted by introp at 9:01 AM on April 26, 2012
"Emergency braking - fuck it all, just brake really hard and then put the clutch down when you are about to stop ......"
Only do this if your car has antilock brakes.
Anti lock braking is irrelevant. Braking hard has nothing to do with anti-lock brakes and the lack thereof does not preclude or prevent hard braking. If you are in an emergency, you need to brake as hard as you can, there's no other option. The ability to brake as hard as you can without locking the wheels either needs additional skills or electronic intervention, but neither is relevant to this discussion as it is a separate issue.
posted by Brockles at 9:17 AM on April 26, 2012
Only do this if your car has antilock brakes.
Anti lock braking is irrelevant. Braking hard has nothing to do with anti-lock brakes and the lack thereof does not preclude or prevent hard braking. If you are in an emergency, you need to brake as hard as you can, there's no other option. The ability to brake as hard as you can without locking the wheels either needs additional skills or electronic intervention, but neither is relevant to this discussion as it is a separate issue.
posted by Brockles at 9:17 AM on April 26, 2012
These guys above are correct. For when you want to accelerate again, and you need a lower gear....
Basic rev match:
1. Clutch in. Get in neutral.
2. Feather the gas up to the expected rpm for the new gear. A good guess comes from experience. To start, try 3000rpm.
3. While still feathering the gas, select you new lower gear. Clutch out. It will be smooth if done right.
4. Accelerate.
posted by colinshark at 9:19 AM on April 26, 2012
Basic rev match:
1. Clutch in. Get in neutral.
2. Feather the gas up to the expected rpm for the new gear. A good guess comes from experience. To start, try 3000rpm.
3. While still feathering the gas, select you new lower gear. Clutch out. It will be smooth if done right.
4. Accelerate.
posted by colinshark at 9:19 AM on April 26, 2012
Back to brakes: If you need to slow unexpectedly, brake HARD then ease off to an appropriate level. The opposite, gradually increasing braking force as you realize the situation is getting worse? Not good. Stay ahead of the curve.
Worth noting here is that it is far, far harder to lock your brakes at high speed than at slow speeds. So your pedal force should be higher with higher speeds, which also nicely means you do most of your braking during the first 60%-75% of your braking zone.
It is almost impossible (in any sort of decent car) to lock the brakes at 70mph, but relatively easy at 30mph. Not enough people are aware of this and the 'brake....brake more.....brake more...omg I'm not stopping enough so I'll brake harder now' style is probably a factor in a lot more accidents than people realise.
posted by Brockles at 9:20 AM on April 26, 2012
Worth noting here is that it is far, far harder to lock your brakes at high speed than at slow speeds. So your pedal force should be higher with higher speeds, which also nicely means you do most of your braking during the first 60%-75% of your braking zone.
It is almost impossible (in any sort of decent car) to lock the brakes at 70mph, but relatively easy at 30mph. Not enough people are aware of this and the 'brake....brake more.....brake more...omg I'm not stopping enough so I'll brake harder now' style is probably a factor in a lot more accidents than people realise.
posted by Brockles at 9:20 AM on April 26, 2012
Best answer: To follow-up on Brockles, you're definitely overthinking this. The stuff about rev-matching is a red herring for what you're asking.
The only time you should be pressing the clutch pedal is when you're changing gear (or starting or slipping the clutch in 1st intentionally).
The only time you should be changing gear is when you need to.
At highway speeds, chances are you won't need to change gears at all until well after your emergency breaking situation is passed.
If I interpret your question right, you're probably worried about the car stalling as you break hard. I certainly was, and I used to clutch in whenever I'd break when I was learning to drive.
At anything over, like, 40mph it's REALLY hard to stall. If your car is anything like any of the ones I've owned or driven, you can be in top gear at 70mph and break down to a surprisingly slow speed before really having to change down. You won't be able to accelerate, but you won't stall or breakdown or anything. Your engine will give you plenty of warning.
Once you're ready to accelerate again after your emergency situation has passed, just choose an appropriate gear as Brockles describes, and change up as normal.
posted by generichuman at 9:31 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
The only time you should be pressing the clutch pedal is when you're changing gear (or starting or slipping the clutch in 1st intentionally).
The only time you should be changing gear is when you need to.
At highway speeds, chances are you won't need to change gears at all until well after your emergency breaking situation is passed.
If I interpret your question right, you're probably worried about the car stalling as you break hard. I certainly was, and I used to clutch in whenever I'd break when I was learning to drive.
At anything over, like, 40mph it's REALLY hard to stall. If your car is anything like any of the ones I've owned or driven, you can be in top gear at 70mph and break down to a surprisingly slow speed before really having to change down. You won't be able to accelerate, but you won't stall or breakdown or anything. Your engine will give you plenty of warning.
Once you're ready to accelerate again after your emergency situation has passed, just choose an appropriate gear as Brockles describes, and change up as normal.
posted by generichuman at 9:31 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: When I learned to drive my instructor always highlighted that the approach to shifting gears in urban traffic and on motorways was completely different. To join the motorway I was to stay in the lower gear for another perhaps 10mph before shifting up to allow me to accelerate more easily to join the motorway and once I was on the motorway I was to stay in 5th as much as possible. His point being that 5th will cover you for most of the speed you do on a motorway and that unless you're stuck on a very congested bit of road with very slow traffic you won't go lower than 4th for all intents and purposes.
And once I was actually driving and clocking up mileage it transpires he was right - I used to have a 125 mile roundtrip to work, of which 120 miles were on motorways and unless there was very bad congestion or an accident I did not leave 5th until I was on the exit slip road leaving the motorway.
Note that the exact point when you really do need a lower gear varies from car to car and that your car will tell you when you have to shift down.
What I mean by 'have' to is not that you're about to stall your car but that your car will fail to respond to your attempts to accelerate again when your speed has gone significantly below the gear speed. And if you're going at really really low speed the car will start to splutter a bit and at that point you really need to engage the clutch because you are about to stall it.
In most of the cars I have ever driven I'd have stuck with 5th for all the scenarios you describe unless I was on an incline. Accelerating from 50mph in 5th on an incline is not normally fun.
So to answer your question - brake using your brake only. Once you have reached a speed you want to maintain or want to speed up again consider what gear you might need to do that and then shift.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:34 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
And once I was actually driving and clocking up mileage it transpires he was right - I used to have a 125 mile roundtrip to work, of which 120 miles were on motorways and unless there was very bad congestion or an accident I did not leave 5th until I was on the exit slip road leaving the motorway.
Note that the exact point when you really do need a lower gear varies from car to car and that your car will tell you when you have to shift down.
What I mean by 'have' to is not that you're about to stall your car but that your car will fail to respond to your attempts to accelerate again when your speed has gone significantly below the gear speed. And if you're going at really really low speed the car will start to splutter a bit and at that point you really need to engage the clutch because you are about to stall it.
In most of the cars I have ever driven I'd have stuck with 5th for all the scenarios you describe unless I was on an incline. Accelerating from 50mph in 5th on an incline is not normally fun.
So to answer your question - brake using your brake only. Once you have reached a speed you want to maintain or want to speed up again consider what gear you might need to do that and then shift.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:34 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
My tiny 3 cylinder car will actually tolerate being left in fifth all the way down to 30 km/h, provided I don't try to accelerate more than very gently at that speed.
Stick shift ain't rocket surgery. If it lugs, or you're experienced enough to know it's going to lug, shift down. If it screams, or you're experienced enough to know it's going to scream, shift up. If you've stopped, shift to neutral. Keep your foot off the clutch pedal unless you're in the process of taking off or shifting. Those are all the rules you need to worry about.
Concentrate on good rev matching when you do shift, and you will find that smoothness and speed come with practice.
posted by flabdablet at 10:35 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Stick shift ain't rocket surgery. If it lugs, or you're experienced enough to know it's going to lug, shift down. If it screams, or you're experienced enough to know it's going to scream, shift up. If you've stopped, shift to neutral. Keep your foot off the clutch pedal unless you're in the process of taking off or shifting. Those are all the rules you need to worry about.
Concentrate on good rev matching when you do shift, and you will find that smoothness and speed come with practice.
posted by flabdablet at 10:35 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Driving stick in stop-go traffic will feel clunky and awful because it really is! I loved driving stick before I moved to a big city and then I hated it and got an automatic for my next car. There are also some cars with "sport mode" type gears that let you shift out of automatic and change gears manually to some degree.
posted by meepmeow at 10:35 AM on April 26, 2012
posted by meepmeow at 10:35 AM on April 26, 2012
Best answer: The magic of driving a stick shift is being able to choose what gear is most appropriate for the situation. Nthing others, in an emergency situation, your eyes and focus should be on your surroundings, and your foot should be focusing on the break pedal to stop you from a collision... if you have to slow down and rapidly speed back up, on the highway you can usually just shift down 1 gear, or even stay in 5th, depending on how much you had to slow.
What I meant by my first statement is, I never base it purely on "the numbers." If you're in a stick shift and struggling to get up a hill (despite going 40 mph or whatever) you can downshift to get more torque, or more power. This is done by pressing in the clutch, downshifting to the next lower gear, then slowly pressing the gas while letting off the clutch, just like when you take off.
Same deal if you're happily cruising the highway at 55 in 5th gear, and need more power to accelerate and pass someone, you can go to 4th gear and get that power. You will be running in higher RPMs and may initially be afraid of it, but it doesnt hurt the car. You drive an auto so you're familiar with the feeling of when you really push down on the gas and you get that burst of power.... thats your auto tranny downshifting itself.
I was always taught (by gearheads) that a properly maintained / oiled / lubricated vehicle can SAFELY run its RPM's right up to the edge of the red zone. Now any car I've had, its whining like crazy and sounds damaging, but the car was made to do it. Yeah you're pushing it extra hard (dont drive like this every day) but as long as you're not in the red on your tachometer, I dont believe your causing damage. I am not a mechanic, but local mechanics have told me this (Pennsylvania, USA)
As for downshifting to use your engine to help slow you down (like coming to a red light/intersection, or an exit on a highway) I've also heard from mechanics this causes no harm, the people who have told me it does had no credentials or basis for their opinion. As you're cruising (and slightly applying breaks), push in the clutch, go to a lower gear, and slowly release the clutch... as you do you'll feel the engine "pulling you back." When your RPMs get down lower, repeat the process. I do this down to 2nd gear, then put it into neutral as I coast to a stop, and leave it in neutral until the light turns green.
posted by el_yucateco at 10:41 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
What I meant by my first statement is, I never base it purely on "the numbers." If you're in a stick shift and struggling to get up a hill (despite going 40 mph or whatever) you can downshift to get more torque, or more power. This is done by pressing in the clutch, downshifting to the next lower gear, then slowly pressing the gas while letting off the clutch, just like when you take off.
Same deal if you're happily cruising the highway at 55 in 5th gear, and need more power to accelerate and pass someone, you can go to 4th gear and get that power. You will be running in higher RPMs and may initially be afraid of it, but it doesnt hurt the car. You drive an auto so you're familiar with the feeling of when you really push down on the gas and you get that burst of power.... thats your auto tranny downshifting itself.
I was always taught (by gearheads) that a properly maintained / oiled / lubricated vehicle can SAFELY run its RPM's right up to the edge of the red zone. Now any car I've had, its whining like crazy and sounds damaging, but the car was made to do it. Yeah you're pushing it extra hard (dont drive like this every day) but as long as you're not in the red on your tachometer, I dont believe your causing damage. I am not a mechanic, but local mechanics have told me this (Pennsylvania, USA)
As for downshifting to use your engine to help slow you down (like coming to a red light/intersection, or an exit on a highway) I've also heard from mechanics this causes no harm, the people who have told me it does had no credentials or basis for their opinion. As you're cruising (and slightly applying breaks), push in the clutch, go to a lower gear, and slowly release the clutch... as you do you'll feel the engine "pulling you back." When your RPMs get down lower, repeat the process. I do this down to 2nd gear, then put it into neutral as I coast to a stop, and leave it in neutral until the light turns green.
posted by el_yucateco at 10:41 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Concentrate on good rev matching when you do shift, and you will find that smoothness and speed come with practice.
This is very true too. As a new stick driver, your shifts may feel "clunky" and not a smooth transition. It took me about a month of driving a stick 100% to get the "feel" for my old beat up pickup truck and drive it smooth as butter. Then I got in my mom's brand new Subaru, and was back to the old clunky shifting. Now years and many cars later, I can sit in any stick shift and get a feel for the clutch/tranny within a few hundred feet of driving.
posted by el_yucateco at 10:43 AM on April 26, 2012
This is very true too. As a new stick driver, your shifts may feel "clunky" and not a smooth transition. It took me about a month of driving a stick 100% to get the "feel" for my old beat up pickup truck and drive it smooth as butter. Then I got in my mom's brand new Subaru, and was back to the old clunky shifting. Now years and many cars later, I can sit in any stick shift and get a feel for the clutch/tranny within a few hundred feet of driving.
posted by el_yucateco at 10:43 AM on April 26, 2012
Listen to the engine. As earlier posters have said, first is to get going and that is about it. If you choose the wrong gear, you will hear it immediately. You will quickly pick the right gear automatically. While getting used to things, try dropping by one gear; listen; if too fast, drop down another gear.
posted by PickeringPete at 10:57 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by PickeringPete at 10:57 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wanted to agree with a lot of what was said here. Brake then clutch especially.
Also, for me, the beauty of driving a stick is that the car talks to you. Listen to it. Everytime I get behind the wheel of a 'foreign to me' car, it's an adjustment. What one car likes, another won't. I'm not sure any of us can tell you when to downshift, unless we were actually driving your car.
Also I'm not sure if anyone has already said this, but welcome to the club. I *LOVE* my manual. Have driven one since I started driving, and feel so out of place in an automatic. The last time I went car shopping I had to get a manual version of the car delivered from two states over.
posted by one4themoment at 11:06 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, for me, the beauty of driving a stick is that the car talks to you. Listen to it. Everytime I get behind the wheel of a 'foreign to me' car, it's an adjustment. What one car likes, another won't. I'm not sure any of us can tell you when to downshift, unless we were actually driving your car.
Also I'm not sure if anyone has already said this, but welcome to the club. I *LOVE* my manual. Have driven one since I started driving, and feel so out of place in an automatic. The last time I went car shopping I had to get a manual version of the car delivered from two states over.
posted by one4themoment at 11:06 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: One useful trick for practicing rev matching, if traffic is light enough to let you do it safely, is "rowing" the car along with the gearstick: shifting from fifth to fourth to fifth to fourth to fifth to fourth to fifth on the flat at highway speed. The car has enough momentum that the worst thing that will happen is a bit of jerkiness and a tiny bit of extra clutch wear, so it's a pretty stress-free way to get a feel for the lose-revs-to-shift-up, blip-revs-to-shift-down patterns and get the jerks out of your shifts. For extra points, do it with a cup of hot coffee sitting on the dashboard. Extra extra points if it has no lid :-)
The quicker you can take your foot off the clutch pedal during a shift without jerking the car, the better your rev matching technique is.
I generally do this a few times (without the coffee) when I get in a car I haven't driven before or haven't driven for a while, because the required interplay between accelerator and clutch and stick is a little different in every car.
Once you get really good at judging the rev matching to eliminate jerkiness completely, you can have fun by practicing clutchless shifts. These rely on the synchromesh rings in your gearbox for dealing with tiny residual rev mismatches (and they must be tiny, because those synchro rings are absolutely not designed to cope with as much slip as the clutch). They're a lot of fun, as well as giving you the ability to limp home if your clutch ever jams or breaks a cable.
Basically you take the pressure off the gearbox by matching the engine revs to your road speed so that the engine is neither driving the wheels nor being driven by them, at which point you can slip the gears into neutral without using the clutch; then you match the engine revs to the road speed for the gear you want to shift into (so, lower the revs if shifting up, raise them if shifting down) and you will find that you can slip the stick into the selected gear with only the lightest pressure on the stick, once again without involving the clutch. It's always easier to shift into neutral than back into gear, but if shifting back into gear takes more than the lightest of light pressure on the stick (horrible noises will come from your gearbox if you insist) then your target-gear rev matching is not good enough yet and you need to practice smoothing out your clutched shifts more before attempting clutchless again.
posted by flabdablet at 11:15 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
The quicker you can take your foot off the clutch pedal during a shift without jerking the car, the better your rev matching technique is.
I generally do this a few times (without the coffee) when I get in a car I haven't driven before or haven't driven for a while, because the required interplay between accelerator and clutch and stick is a little different in every car.
Once you get really good at judging the rev matching to eliminate jerkiness completely, you can have fun by practicing clutchless shifts. These rely on the synchromesh rings in your gearbox for dealing with tiny residual rev mismatches (and they must be tiny, because those synchro rings are absolutely not designed to cope with as much slip as the clutch). They're a lot of fun, as well as giving you the ability to limp home if your clutch ever jams or breaks a cable.
Basically you take the pressure off the gearbox by matching the engine revs to your road speed so that the engine is neither driving the wheels nor being driven by them, at which point you can slip the gears into neutral without using the clutch; then you match the engine revs to the road speed for the gear you want to shift into (so, lower the revs if shifting up, raise them if shifting down) and you will find that you can slip the stick into the selected gear with only the lightest pressure on the stick, once again without involving the clutch. It's always easier to shift into neutral than back into gear, but if shifting back into gear takes more than the lightest of light pressure on the stick (horrible noises will come from your gearbox if you insist) then your target-gear rev matching is not good enough yet and you need to practice smoothing out your clutched shifts more before attempting clutchless again.
posted by flabdablet at 11:15 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
In the manuals I've driven, third gear is the magic go-to gear. Unless you're going less than 15, it'll get the job done. In time you'll get a feeling for it, but this heuristic has reduced my mental load when learning a new car.
posted by jewzilla at 11:43 PM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jewzilla at 11:43 PM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
At what speed do I need to go down to 4th gear? Is there a minimum or maximum RPM I should be at when downshifting?
I agree with most of the other posters, especially jcreigh: "you'll learn to listen to what the car is telling you, and you will immediately know when you need to downshift or upshift." I think this is really a trial-and-error thing. Practice by putting in your clutch when you're going 55 or so on the highway; let the car slow down; pick a gear (3 or 4 or staying in 5), let the clutch out again, and notice what happens. Are you getting good pick-up? Then you're good. Is it making high-pitched sounds? You need a higher gear. Is it lugging (opposite of pick-up)? You need a lower gear.
I still use my speedometer to help me, as well. When I learned to drive I was told that the gears roughly correspond to the speed in tens: 1st up to 10 mph, 2nd around 20, 3 around 30, 4 around 40, 5 for 50 and above.
If I have to slow down a bit on the highway I usually go drop down to 4th, which in my car can handle speeds around 35 all the way up to 55.
posted by ramenopres at 8:17 PM on April 27, 2012
I agree with most of the other posters, especially jcreigh: "you'll learn to listen to what the car is telling you, and you will immediately know when you need to downshift or upshift." I think this is really a trial-and-error thing. Practice by putting in your clutch when you're going 55 or so on the highway; let the car slow down; pick a gear (3 or 4 or staying in 5), let the clutch out again, and notice what happens. Are you getting good pick-up? Then you're good. Is it making high-pitched sounds? You need a higher gear. Is it lugging (opposite of pick-up)? You need a lower gear.
I still use my speedometer to help me, as well. When I learned to drive I was told that the gears roughly correspond to the speed in tens: 1st up to 10 mph, 2nd around 20, 3 around 30, 4 around 40, 5 for 50 and above.
If I have to slow down a bit on the highway I usually go drop down to 4th, which in my car can handle speeds around 35 all the way up to 55.
posted by ramenopres at 8:17 PM on April 27, 2012
Also, I usually don't think of what you are describing in terms of downshifting. When I have to slow down, I brake the amount that I need to; then, when I feel like getting some gas again, I (in my mind) just start from scratch--I put in the clutch, I look at my speedometer to choose a gear, and then let out the clutch and press the accelerator. I have my hand on the shifter so that I can quickly switch to another gear if I need to; I have learned to feel that hesitation or lack of power that means I have the wrong gear.
posted by ramenopres at 8:21 PM on April 27, 2012
posted by ramenopres at 8:21 PM on April 27, 2012
*the key to switching quickly out of a bad gear (just in case this isn't part of your awareness) is to pay attention while you are taking your foot off the clutch, rather than just removing your foot completely without any thought or sensitivity to what the engine is doing.
posted by ramenopres at 8:24 PM on April 27, 2012
posted by ramenopres at 8:24 PM on April 27, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks all. All answers were helpful; marked answers were those the most reassuring for my specific lizard brain's driving safety anxiety before our trip. I was worried that so much of my cognitive power was going to be diverted into thinking about making the car work, whereas normally I just think about my speed and position relative to other cars and what will be my reaction if X car makes Y sudden move. But you guys were right--once I was in 5th, I just stayed there the whole time, and minor speed adjustments were no problem. It was just like an automatic at that point. Those that pointed out that my fear of stalling on the highway was unfounded were appreciated also; I dread it so much during low speed driving (for driving safety reasons, as well as, let's be honest, embarrassment), that it was great to not have to really worry about it at high speeds.
It's still very unnatural, and speeding up and slowing down is...ungraceful, to put it very kindly. This was a one-time trip, but I hope to be able to pick up this skill eventually, and your advice was encouraging towards that end.
posted by neda at 10:53 AM on April 30, 2012
It's still very unnatural, and speeding up and slowing down is...ungraceful, to put it very kindly. This was a one-time trip, but I hope to be able to pick up this skill eventually, and your advice was encouraging towards that end.
posted by neda at 10:53 AM on April 30, 2012
When you don't know how to drive stick, it looks intimidating. When you're learning to drive stick, it feels terrifying. When you're used to driving stick, you don't even think about it.
Well, that's not true. Every once in a while, you think how crazy it is that you're using all four limbs at once to drive. Then you feel really cool.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:27 PM on April 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Well, that's not true. Every once in a while, you think how crazy it is that you're using all four limbs at once to drive. Then you feel really cool.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:27 PM on April 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
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