How to get baby to sleep better?
March 2, 2012 9:38 AM
Question about getting a 4-month-old to nap and sleep better at night.
My daughter is now about 4.5 months old. This question is about both naps, which she has never been good at, and sleeping at night, which she was great at until recently.
At about 3 months, shortly after we moved her to her crib for bedtime, she started sleeping through the night for about 10-11 hours. It was wonderful! We started a good bedtime routine at that time - bath, massage, book, and cuddling before putting her in the crib with white noise. She would usually fuss for a few minutes while we watched over her and kept her pacifier in her mouth, and then fall asleep. She rarely woke during the night, but if she did we would just put her pacifier back in and she would keep sleeping. Her bedtime is 7pm and she would usually wake at 5 or 6am.
Since about 4 months, the night sleeping has been getting progressively worse. First she started waking for a feed during the middle of the night - anywhere from 2 to 4am. Then, she became more difficult to get to sleep in the evening. Now, she also wakes constantly throughout the night, so my husband keeps getting up all night to put the pacifier back and soothe her back to sleep. I guess this is the 4 month sleep regression. But what do we do about it? We've tried dreamfeeds around 10pm or so, but she still ends up wanting a feed in the middle of the night. Now we also end up rocking her to sleep at 7pm, which I think is a bad habit to get into.
Now onto the naps. She gets SO tired during the day, and I feel like we've tried everything to get her to sleep. I end up rocking her to sleep, but this even takes about 45 minutes to an hour, just to get 30 minutes of sleep. I've tried:
- putting her to bed at the first signs of sleepiness
- waiting until she is yawning and rubbing her eyes a ton
- getting her SUPER tired before putting her down
And nothing seems to work. I've tried leaving the room for short times, but she never falls asleep on her own. I have been inconsistent in nap locations - often times I end up with her asleep on my lap because I just get so tired of leaning over her crib (it really starts to hurt my back). I know this is a problem. It seems like I spend half the day trying to get her to nap, which is a total waste of time when we could be doing fun stuff together.
I've been reading about various cry-it-out methods and considering them. But I'm also scared of scarring her for life - this seems to be such a politicized issue and it's hard to get unbiased information! My questions are:
- Is CIO a good way to get her to learn to soothe herself to sleep, for both night time and naps? Is there any research showing that it is harmful for babies' emotional development?
- Is 4.5 months old enough for CIO? Should I wait until 6 months or even later?
- With CIO, what do you do when she starts to fuss in the night? I'm a little confused about whether to go in and soothe at that time. Also I'm not sure how you tell if she is hungry or just fussing.
- What do you do about the pacifier? She often wakes/fusses just because it fell out... should we just leave it out and let her wake fully and start crying, so that she learns to sleep without it? That seems kind of cruel. But it is making us crazy to live with such little sleep ourselves.
Any advice for how you got your little one to sleep better is very much appreciated.
My daughter is now about 4.5 months old. This question is about both naps, which she has never been good at, and sleeping at night, which she was great at until recently.
At about 3 months, shortly after we moved her to her crib for bedtime, she started sleeping through the night for about 10-11 hours. It was wonderful! We started a good bedtime routine at that time - bath, massage, book, and cuddling before putting her in the crib with white noise. She would usually fuss for a few minutes while we watched over her and kept her pacifier in her mouth, and then fall asleep. She rarely woke during the night, but if she did we would just put her pacifier back in and she would keep sleeping. Her bedtime is 7pm and she would usually wake at 5 or 6am.
Since about 4 months, the night sleeping has been getting progressively worse. First she started waking for a feed during the middle of the night - anywhere from 2 to 4am. Then, she became more difficult to get to sleep in the evening. Now, she also wakes constantly throughout the night, so my husband keeps getting up all night to put the pacifier back and soothe her back to sleep. I guess this is the 4 month sleep regression. But what do we do about it? We've tried dreamfeeds around 10pm or so, but she still ends up wanting a feed in the middle of the night. Now we also end up rocking her to sleep at 7pm, which I think is a bad habit to get into.
Now onto the naps. She gets SO tired during the day, and I feel like we've tried everything to get her to sleep. I end up rocking her to sleep, but this even takes about 45 minutes to an hour, just to get 30 minutes of sleep. I've tried:
- putting her to bed at the first signs of sleepiness
- waiting until she is yawning and rubbing her eyes a ton
- getting her SUPER tired before putting her down
And nothing seems to work. I've tried leaving the room for short times, but she never falls asleep on her own. I have been inconsistent in nap locations - often times I end up with her asleep on my lap because I just get so tired of leaning over her crib (it really starts to hurt my back). I know this is a problem. It seems like I spend half the day trying to get her to nap, which is a total waste of time when we could be doing fun stuff together.
I've been reading about various cry-it-out methods and considering them. But I'm also scared of scarring her for life - this seems to be such a politicized issue and it's hard to get unbiased information! My questions are:
- Is CIO a good way to get her to learn to soothe herself to sleep, for both night time and naps? Is there any research showing that it is harmful for babies' emotional development?
- Is 4.5 months old enough for CIO? Should I wait until 6 months or even later?
- With CIO, what do you do when she starts to fuss in the night? I'm a little confused about whether to go in and soothe at that time. Also I'm not sure how you tell if she is hungry or just fussing.
- What do you do about the pacifier? She often wakes/fusses just because it fell out... should we just leave it out and let her wake fully and start crying, so that she learns to sleep without it? That seems kind of cruel. But it is making us crazy to live with such little sleep ourselves.
Any advice for how you got your little one to sleep better is very much appreciated.
- Is CIO a good way to get her to learn to soothe herself to sleep, for both night time and naps?
No
- Is 4.5 months old enough for CIO?
No
Sleep is hard, and you can never be in 100% control of another person's sleep, no matter their age. Some solutions are not about what you can do to the child, but what you can do to/for yourself. We were still swaddling past 6 months because that's what worked for us (with one kid). Our 18 month will only take one nap, not usually longer than 40 minutes, regardless of external conditions. Do you have a sound machine (white noise)? Considered co-sleeping? You are going to have to try many different things, and then accept that different techniques may or may not work at different stages of life. It's difficult, but it does get better.
As you note, this is a controversial subject to say the least. And once again, I break my own rule of staying silent in threads about controversial parenting subjects.
posted by mattbucher at 9:45 AM on March 2, 2012
No
- Is 4.5 months old enough for CIO?
No
Sleep is hard, and you can never be in 100% control of another person's sleep, no matter their age. Some solutions are not about what you can do to the child, but what you can do to/for yourself. We were still swaddling past 6 months because that's what worked for us (with one kid). Our 18 month will only take one nap, not usually longer than 40 minutes, regardless of external conditions. Do you have a sound machine (white noise)? Considered co-sleeping? You are going to have to try many different things, and then accept that different techniques may or may not work at different stages of life. It's difficult, but it does get better.
As you note, this is a controversial subject to say the least. And once again, I break my own rule of staying silent in threads about controversial parenting subjects.
posted by mattbucher at 9:45 AM on March 2, 2012
"And nothing seems to work." and probably nothing will work, until suddently everything will work and she'll just sleep. And then suddenly she won't.... and so on. Just keep trying all the advice you can get and sooner or later she'll decide to sleep. Kids, especially really small kids, will go through phases like that. Luckily you won't remember all this in a yaer or two. Really. It seems like the worst thing in the world right now (because it is) but it'll feel like nothing sooner than later. Most people will tell you it gets better, I always say it gets different.
posted by Blake at 9:58 AM on March 2, 2012
posted by Blake at 9:58 AM on March 2, 2012
is she teething?
it can happen early: have a look at this for some signs
posted by mairuzu at 9:59 AM on March 2, 2012
it can happen early: have a look at this for some signs
posted by mairuzu at 9:59 AM on March 2, 2012
Not even Ferber recommends CIO for babies under 6 months of age. At 4 months of age, a baby is crying because she needs something. She is not crying to manipulate. She's trying to meet real physical or physiological need.
If your daughter is like Toddler Zizzle, then leaving her to cry will only cause the crying to escalate. It will make matters worse, not better. If your daughter is more like my daughter Rosalie, then she will eventually stop crying because she realizes she's not going to get her need met (this usually happens in the car with us).
There is also the four month sleep regression. It sucks. But give it a few weeks and she might go back to sleeping as she did before.
Also keep in mind that sleeping through the night is sleeping for a 5-6 hour stretch at a time -- not an 8 hour stretch. Rosalie is almost 6 months old, and she's up once at night and once in the early morning still.
As for the naps --- I've had the best luck getting Rosalie, who hates napping at home, to nap in a carrier while nursing. It works pretty well and lets me get out of the house.
posted by zizzle at 10:01 AM on March 2, 2012
If your daughter is like Toddler Zizzle, then leaving her to cry will only cause the crying to escalate. It will make matters worse, not better. If your daughter is more like my daughter Rosalie, then she will eventually stop crying because she realizes she's not going to get her need met (this usually happens in the car with us).
There is also the four month sleep regression. It sucks. But give it a few weeks and she might go back to sleeping as she did before.
Also keep in mind that sleeping through the night is sleeping for a 5-6 hour stretch at a time -- not an 8 hour stretch. Rosalie is almost 6 months old, and she's up once at night and once in the early morning still.
As for the naps --- I've had the best luck getting Rosalie, who hates napping at home, to nap in a carrier while nursing. It works pretty well and lets me get out of the house.
posted by zizzle at 10:01 AM on March 2, 2012
We tried swaddling when she was younger but it never worked out. She hated it and was always able to get at least one arm out, even when using those velcro swaddling bags. We usually put her in a onesie & sleep sack.
Yes, we use white noise and couldn't live without it.
I've read the idea of "The No Cry Sleep Solution" but haven't tried it.
What's frustrating is that she used to sleep perfectly well throughout the night, but just doesn't anymore.
posted by barney_sap at 10:01 AM on March 2, 2012
Yes, we use white noise and couldn't live without it.
I've read the idea of "The No Cry Sleep Solution" but haven't tried it.
What's frustrating is that she used to sleep perfectly well throughout the night, but just doesn't anymore.
posted by barney_sap at 10:01 AM on March 2, 2012
In addition the the sleep regression at 4 months, she may also be in a growth spurt, causing the need for the middle of the night feeding to replenish all that great stuff that helps her keep growing!
My little one also doesn't nap well. She never has, at least once she got past the newborn sleep-all-the-time phase. She gets tired during the day and may drift off on her own for 20 minutes at a time, but she basically just sleeps one long stretch at night like yours. She did go through a phase like you describe where she was up every night, sometimes multiple times, but it passed.
One thing I've been told that provides a little hope, is that once she starts crawling and really moving around on her own, she'll be much more likely to take better naps because she'll be wearing herself out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that one!
posted by trivia genius at 10:13 AM on March 2, 2012
My little one also doesn't nap well. She never has, at least once she got past the newborn sleep-all-the-time phase. She gets tired during the day and may drift off on her own for 20 minutes at a time, but she basically just sleeps one long stretch at night like yours. She did go through a phase like you describe where she was up every night, sometimes multiple times, but it passed.
One thing I've been told that provides a little hope, is that once she starts crawling and really moving around on her own, she'll be much more likely to take better naps because she'll be wearing herself out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that one!
posted by trivia genius at 10:13 AM on March 2, 2012
Every baby is different, and your baby can change drastically in a matter of days. At least, that's what I've seen, read, and heard. Our son is 6 months old, and slept through the night for a short period, but that seems like a distant memory now. Some days he'll nap a bit during the day, and will be bouncing around the rest of the time. Other days he'll sleep for three hours. We try to keep away from afternoon/evening naps, but sometimes he's so tired that he'll get really fussy if we do anything but hold him and bounce with him in our arms, so we put him down.
He'll still sleep for 3-4 hours at a time in the night, waking up enough to eat for a while. If I change him, he'll wake up enough to eat more, sleeping for another 4-5 hours. If not, he'll sleep for 2-3 hours. He'll eat more from a bottle, and by adding infant rice powder to his bottles, he'll sleep longer, but we usually don't have many breastmilk bottles in the fridge, and my wife prefers to nurse than pump.
So we get up every few hours, feed him a bit, and put him back to bed. He'll get older, and this will pass.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:17 AM on March 2, 2012
He'll still sleep for 3-4 hours at a time in the night, waking up enough to eat for a while. If I change him, he'll wake up enough to eat more, sleeping for another 4-5 hours. If not, he'll sleep for 2-3 hours. He'll eat more from a bottle, and by adding infant rice powder to his bottles, he'll sleep longer, but we usually don't have many breastmilk bottles in the fridge, and my wife prefers to nurse than pump.
So we get up every few hours, feed him a bit, and put him back to bed. He'll get older, and this will pass.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:17 AM on March 2, 2012
More thoughts: our little guy will have nothing to do with his pacifier, but loves swaddling. Well, doesn't love it, but if he's calm enough to get swaddled, he (usually) sleeps better. Sometimes that requires swaddling him with his arms free, rocking him until he gets cozier, then re-swaddling his arms in. He'll often get free of the swaddle by the time he wakes up, but it seems to do him well for the beginning of his naps/sleep.
One of my wife's co-workers kids liked swaddling, and wanted to be swaddled to sleep until she was 2. The other co-worker's kid would have none of it. Just more anecdotes for your collection.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:21 AM on March 2, 2012
One of my wife's co-workers kids liked swaddling, and wanted to be swaddled to sleep until she was 2. The other co-worker's kid would have none of it. Just more anecdotes for your collection.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:21 AM on March 2, 2012
Yet another thing to try with naps--baby carrier. At that age our guy would sleep for 15 minutes, max, on his own during the day, but would conk out for a nice 30-90 minutes if I just went around doing my usual business with him in the Ergo. Even the folks at daycare, who I think of as the nap experts, were doing about half of his naps in the carrier until 5 or 5.5 months. Some people seem to think of it as a crutch, but with a little more maturity he was able to transition to crib napping. (This did, however, mean that I only ever laughed a bitter laugh at the people who chirp that you should sleep when the baby sleeps.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 10:33 AM on March 2, 2012
posted by tchemgrrl at 10:33 AM on March 2, 2012
The idea that an infant can manipulate people is absolutely ridiculous. If your baby is crying it needs comfort, period.
posted by imagineerit at 10:36 AM on March 2, 2012
posted by imagineerit at 10:36 AM on March 2, 2012
Everyone has an opinion about CIO, and they're all sorta crazy. Here is what worked for us:
We let her cry when it was just the 'whiney sleepy calming down cry', but went in immediately when it was the 'help me' cry. We never let her cry for more than 5 or 10 min. What we found, was that our little one just had to cry for a few min before getting herself back to sleep. I'm pretty certain that she's not scarred for life, but I bet some people here might think we're monsters.
Keep trying new stuff, something will eventually work. Until next week, that is. :)
posted by Nickel Pickle at 10:36 AM on March 2, 2012
We let her cry when it was just the 'whiney sleepy calming down cry', but went in immediately when it was the 'help me' cry. We never let her cry for more than 5 or 10 min. What we found, was that our little one just had to cry for a few min before getting herself back to sleep. I'm pretty certain that she's not scarred for life, but I bet some people here might think we're monsters.
Keep trying new stuff, something will eventually work. Until next week, that is. :)
posted by Nickel Pickle at 10:36 AM on March 2, 2012
As others have noted, the 4-month point is kind of common for a "sleep regression" thing to happen.
Can you get rid of the pacifier? If that's falling out and waking her up, maybe weaning her off of that will help. Our pediatrician was pretty firm about trying to break the pacifier habit at around 4-6 months.
I liked the Weissbluth "Health Sleep Habits Happy Child" in that it describes what's going on neurologically a bit a different states of development w/r/t to sleeping.
And yes, it certainly is something people are passionate about. Try listen through some of the more strident voices out there. Everyone just really wants good sleep -- it can get parents a little riled sometimes. It will be ok, though!
But do bear in mind "crying it out" or "CIO" is a pretty loaded term. Ferber, Weissbluth, and others who describe some form of sleep training do not use that term -- it's pretty much used as a criticism. Someone who's informing you about Ferber using that term is likely already showing you their bias. Like "Obamacare." I would suggest reading the actual books (I'd start with Weissbluth) rather than what others say about it.
Hang in there!
posted by pantarei70 at 10:41 AM on March 2, 2012
Can you get rid of the pacifier? If that's falling out and waking her up, maybe weaning her off of that will help. Our pediatrician was pretty firm about trying to break the pacifier habit at around 4-6 months.
I liked the Weissbluth "Health Sleep Habits Happy Child" in that it describes what's going on neurologically a bit a different states of development w/r/t to sleeping.
And yes, it certainly is something people are passionate about. Try listen through some of the more strident voices out there. Everyone just really wants good sleep -- it can get parents a little riled sometimes. It will be ok, though!
But do bear in mind "crying it out" or "CIO" is a pretty loaded term. Ferber, Weissbluth, and others who describe some form of sleep training do not use that term -- it's pretty much used as a criticism. Someone who's informing you about Ferber using that term is likely already showing you their bias. Like "Obamacare." I would suggest reading the actual books (I'd start with Weissbluth) rather than what others say about it.
Hang in there!
posted by pantarei70 at 10:41 AM on March 2, 2012
I know this is just going to be a collection of anecdotes, because each baby is so different.
My son is about to turn six months old and we just went through this at 4 months.
His sleep regression coincided with a dramatic drop in my milk production - something I didn't clue into until he showed no weight gain at a regular appointment (his diapers were still consistent, and he wasn't acting particularly hungry so I had no idea).
I ended up having no choice but to supplement and then go to full formula feeds. After about two weeks of full formula feeds, I can count on a 4-6 hour stretch at night, then two feedings with a 3 hour stretch in between before he gets up in the morning.
My baby was *hungry*. But he was also just not sleeping well. It took two full weeks of full belly at night before his sleep regulated again, for a total of about 4 weeks of sleep regression. If my milk supply hadn't changed, I don't know that his regression would have been any shorter or longer - in one sense, I got lucky, because he couldn't fight the soporific effect of harder-to-digest soy formula.
His napping during the day is still pretty inconsistent, but I can pretty much guarantee he'll fall asleep eventually on his own (NOW!) if his belly is full and his diaper is dry. Even if just for 45 minutes (and I've read enough about baby sleep patterns to try to get him back down if he only sleeps that long, but it only works about 30% of the time).
I've seen him fall asleep with a favourite pacifier (once), fall asleep with me patting his belly rhythmically (once), fall asleep after crying for about three minutes when I was elbow deep in food preparation and had to let him wait (only once, usually the crying escalates after the three minute mark and he gets inconsolable), and fall asleep in the baby carrier or sling (often!). So when my perfect sleeper of a 3 month old turned into a regular non-sleeping BABY, it was really difficult to find something that worked for everyone.
CIO/Ferber is a sensitive subject online and everyone has a different experience. Most parents I nannied for as a teen used it. My parents used it for my little sisters. I don't use it with my son because he falls asleep nursing within ten minutes if he's tired. And when he's wired up and energetic because he's OVER tired, it takes fifteen minutes and requires a dark quiet room and no response from mama when he pulls off the breast to grin or shriek or talk. I'd rather deal with a shrieking happy overtired baby at the breast than to listen to him cry for no reason (again - his crying escalates, he doesn't wind down on his own yet).
So that's my example. I expect any other kids we add to the family will be completely different and I will mourn the days of my "easy" firstborn son who is newly mobile and likes to keep his feet in my face at night now.
As for advice: baby carrier to let you go about your business while little one winds down and hopefully falls asleep, extra feeds, a little patience - with luck, this will sort itself out in a few weeks until she learns some new trick and her sleep gets FUN all over again.
posted by annathea at 10:47 AM on March 2, 2012
My son is about to turn six months old and we just went through this at 4 months.
His sleep regression coincided with a dramatic drop in my milk production - something I didn't clue into until he showed no weight gain at a regular appointment (his diapers were still consistent, and he wasn't acting particularly hungry so I had no idea).
I ended up having no choice but to supplement and then go to full formula feeds. After about two weeks of full formula feeds, I can count on a 4-6 hour stretch at night, then two feedings with a 3 hour stretch in between before he gets up in the morning.
My baby was *hungry*. But he was also just not sleeping well. It took two full weeks of full belly at night before his sleep regulated again, for a total of about 4 weeks of sleep regression. If my milk supply hadn't changed, I don't know that his regression would have been any shorter or longer - in one sense, I got lucky, because he couldn't fight the soporific effect of harder-to-digest soy formula.
His napping during the day is still pretty inconsistent, but I can pretty much guarantee he'll fall asleep eventually on his own (NOW!) if his belly is full and his diaper is dry. Even if just for 45 minutes (and I've read enough about baby sleep patterns to try to get him back down if he only sleeps that long, but it only works about 30% of the time).
I've seen him fall asleep with a favourite pacifier (once), fall asleep with me patting his belly rhythmically (once), fall asleep after crying for about three minutes when I was elbow deep in food preparation and had to let him wait (only once, usually the crying escalates after the three minute mark and he gets inconsolable), and fall asleep in the baby carrier or sling (often!). So when my perfect sleeper of a 3 month old turned into a regular non-sleeping BABY, it was really difficult to find something that worked for everyone.
CIO/Ferber is a sensitive subject online and everyone has a different experience. Most parents I nannied for as a teen used it. My parents used it for my little sisters. I don't use it with my son because he falls asleep nursing within ten minutes if he's tired. And when he's wired up and energetic because he's OVER tired, it takes fifteen minutes and requires a dark quiet room and no response from mama when he pulls off the breast to grin or shriek or talk. I'd rather deal with a shrieking happy overtired baby at the breast than to listen to him cry for no reason (again - his crying escalates, he doesn't wind down on his own yet).
So that's my example. I expect any other kids we add to the family will be completely different and I will mourn the days of my "easy" firstborn son who is newly mobile and likes to keep his feet in my face at night now.
As for advice: baby carrier to let you go about your business while little one winds down and hopefully falls asleep, extra feeds, a little patience - with luck, this will sort itself out in a few weeks until she learns some new trick and her sleep gets FUN all over again.
posted by annathea at 10:47 AM on March 2, 2012
None of my 3 babies have napped in a crib until 9 months or so. When the first one was under 9 months, I did what you are doing: "I spend half the day trying to get her to nap, which is a total waste of time when we could be doing fun stuff together." This, as you have already intuited, is silly. So for my next two, I popped them in a carrier (Bjorn or Moby, then Ergo) and went and did the fun stuff. They slept for part of it, woke for part of it, whatever: I wasn't leaning over a crib in a pose of ancient futility, I was at the park with the other kid(s).
If you want to sleep, too, see if she'll sleep in your bed with you; they're often more amenable to that.
I used Ferber for night sleep with 2 of the 3 -- not until 10 months or so. I would not ever endorse CIO for naps.
posted by palliser at 10:48 AM on March 2, 2012
If you want to sleep, too, see if she'll sleep in your bed with you; they're often more amenable to that.
I used Ferber for night sleep with 2 of the 3 -- not until 10 months or so. I would not ever endorse CIO for naps.
posted by palliser at 10:48 AM on March 2, 2012
I'm sorry, but as soon as I saw your question: How to get baby to sleep better?
my immediate reaction was: HAHAHAHA.
Nap when you get a chance, try to switch off nights with your partner if possible, try sticking her in the swing for naps. My sympathies. Since she used to be a good sleeper, there's a good chance this will pass.
posted by chickenmagazine at 10:56 AM on March 2, 2012
my immediate reaction was: HAHAHAHA.
Nap when you get a chance, try to switch off nights with your partner if possible, try sticking her in the swing for naps. My sympathies. Since she used to be a good sleeper, there's a good chance this will pass.
posted by chickenmagazine at 10:56 AM on March 2, 2012
> What's frustrating is that she used to sleep perfectly well throughout the night, but just doesn't anymore.
I think one of the most common mistakes we make when we are new parents is to think that baby development progresses in a nice straight line from helpless infant to independent adult. It doesn't. It zigzags all over the place, with progress here and regression there, and last week she was totally doing it and this week she won't. I found with my daughter that everything changed about every six weeks or so. On the bright side, six weeks from now she may be sleeping just fine again. The downside is that might only last six weeks, too.
If she's hungry in the night, maybe you'd like to consider introducing some solid food. This suggestion is not without controversy! (Seriously, there is nothing related to baby-rearing that is not controversial. At a certain point you have to just say fuck it all and do what works.) I lied to people for ages about the fact that I started my daughter on solids at 5 months. She would watch me like a starving orphan every time I ate, and would either snatch food from my hand or grab my hand with both of hers and try to pull whatever I was holding into her mouth. I took that as a sign she was ready. We started with avocado and bananas.
The key is to not despair. I remember that, in addition to being exhausted because I was up every two hours with my daughter, I was freaked out thinking OHMYGOD WHAT DID I DO SHE IS NEVER GOING TO SLEEP AGAIN. I know it's impossible to believe that you will get through this stage, but you will, she will sleep again and peace will return to your nights. Hang in there!!
posted by looli at 11:06 AM on March 2, 2012
I think one of the most common mistakes we make when we are new parents is to think that baby development progresses in a nice straight line from helpless infant to independent adult. It doesn't. It zigzags all over the place, with progress here and regression there, and last week she was totally doing it and this week she won't. I found with my daughter that everything changed about every six weeks or so. On the bright side, six weeks from now she may be sleeping just fine again. The downside is that might only last six weeks, too.
If she's hungry in the night, maybe you'd like to consider introducing some solid food. This suggestion is not without controversy! (Seriously, there is nothing related to baby-rearing that is not controversial. At a certain point you have to just say fuck it all and do what works.) I lied to people for ages about the fact that I started my daughter on solids at 5 months. She would watch me like a starving orphan every time I ate, and would either snatch food from my hand or grab my hand with both of hers and try to pull whatever I was holding into her mouth. I took that as a sign she was ready. We started with avocado and bananas.
The key is to not despair. I remember that, in addition to being exhausted because I was up every two hours with my daughter, I was freaked out thinking OHMYGOD WHAT DID I DO SHE IS NEVER GOING TO SLEEP AGAIN. I know it's impossible to believe that you will get through this stage, but you will, she will sleep again and peace will return to your nights. Hang in there!!
posted by looli at 11:06 AM on March 2, 2012
Oh, and for naps, my daughter used to wake around 6 and then would fall asleep every morning at 10 or 10:30, in her car seat (the bucket kind, so maybe she as younger...) on the bathroom floor, while I took a shower. She'd be out for 2-3 hours. Maybe try getting her to nap somewhere around where you are instead of alone in her crib?
posted by looli at 11:11 AM on March 2, 2012
posted by looli at 11:11 AM on March 2, 2012
I have a two and a half year old who doesn't sleep through the night yet. It took my six year old until the age of three to do so as well.
Some kids are bad sleepers and you just have to wait it out. Bedtime routine, swaddling, white noise, no-cry, CIO, whatever, nothing worked for us.
Welcome to parenthood.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2012
Some kids are bad sleepers and you just have to wait it out. Bedtime routine, swaddling, white noise, no-cry, CIO, whatever, nothing worked for us.
Welcome to parenthood.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2012
Okay, it sounds like I just need to wait this out and hopefully it will improve. These are all actually helpful anecdotes to hear.
I forgot to mention that she doesn't generally like sleeping in a carrier. I've tried the BabyBjorn, Ergo, and Moby... she gets frustrated being stuck on me all the time. Although she kind of likes the Bjorn when facing out, which we've just starting doing. I will try all of them again just in case she will start sleeping that way.
I have tried getting her to nap other places - so far, the only place she will tolerate is my lap, which isn't ideal but which I resort to most days just so that she will sleep.
We let her cry when it was just the 'whiney sleepy calming down cry', but went in immediately when it was the 'help me' cry. We never let her cry for more than 5 or 10 min. What we found, was that our little one just had to cry for a few min before getting herself back to sleep. I'm pretty certain that she's not scarred for life, but I bet some people here might think we're monsters.
I think this is good advice - I have thought about trying this, since her "crying" is usually just whining and fussing. She doesn't actually produce tears. Maybe I'll give her another month or two and then try letting her "cry" this way and see how it goes.
posted by barney_sap at 11:55 AM on March 2, 2012
I forgot to mention that she doesn't generally like sleeping in a carrier. I've tried the BabyBjorn, Ergo, and Moby... she gets frustrated being stuck on me all the time. Although she kind of likes the Bjorn when facing out, which we've just starting doing. I will try all of them again just in case she will start sleeping that way.
I have tried getting her to nap other places - so far, the only place she will tolerate is my lap, which isn't ideal but which I resort to most days just so that she will sleep.
We let her cry when it was just the 'whiney sleepy calming down cry', but went in immediately when it was the 'help me' cry. We never let her cry for more than 5 or 10 min. What we found, was that our little one just had to cry for a few min before getting herself back to sleep. I'm pretty certain that she's not scarred for life, but I bet some people here might think we're monsters.
I think this is good advice - I have thought about trying this, since her "crying" is usually just whining and fussing. She doesn't actually produce tears. Maybe I'll give her another month or two and then try letting her "cry" this way and see how it goes.
posted by barney_sap at 11:55 AM on March 2, 2012
Greetings, fellow parent of a 4.5 month old! I don't have a lot of advice for you, but I wanted to let you know that my kid sleeps like crap too. Well, some days she takes a good nap if I hold her until she falls asleep, then transfer her oh-so-gently to the couch or a pile of blankets on the floor where she will be comfortable and maybe not notice that I've gone off to do other things. At night she goes down okay but we're up every two or three hours to eat.
Right now she's been sleeping on the couch and a noisy snowplow just went by and the dog ran around barking at it, so that nap is over.
Anyway, solidarity. Do whatever works for you as long as your baby isn't in distress.
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:30 PM on March 2, 2012
Right now she's been sleeping on the couch and a noisy snowplow just went by and the dog ran around barking at it, so that nap is over.
Anyway, solidarity. Do whatever works for you as long as your baby isn't in distress.
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:30 PM on March 2, 2012
hey, just don't read "no cry sleep solution" first. It will "confirm" with no (zero) scientific support that letting a baby cry, even with checking in regularly, will scar her for life and she'll be penniless and marry a guy who wears Ed Hardy. It's intended to scare you right off the bat which leaves you with few options if your baby, say, wakes up every 1.5 hours to nurse and mom isn't a good sleeper and goes crazy nuts.
ps the american association or pediatrics says you can "sleep-train" as early as 4 months. I'd wait till 6, but just my opinion.
pps read the comments on Ferbers book on Amazon. You'd think the guy hung the moon.
posted by kristymcj at 12:45 PM on March 2, 2012
ps the american association or pediatrics says you can "sleep-train" as early as 4 months. I'd wait till 6, but just my opinion.
pps read the comments on Ferbers book on Amazon. You'd think the guy hung the moon.
posted by kristymcj at 12:45 PM on March 2, 2012
Just another anecdote-- we had to ditch the pacifier around 4 months as well, for roughly the same reasons (kid started waking up whenever it fell out of her mouth). I think it ended up being one miserable nap and one miserable first-half-of-the-night, but luckily, they adapt very quickly at that age. In the end, it was so worthwhile to get the paci weaning out of the way before she got old enough to be stubborn about it, and it definitely made a positive difference in the quality of her sleep.
posted by Bardolph at 12:57 PM on March 2, 2012
posted by Bardolph at 12:57 PM on March 2, 2012
Aw yeah, I'd wait on serious sleep training until she's 6 months old.
However, remember that all babies are different (and parents, too). Some babies need to fuss before calming down, some babies will escalate in full-blown conniptions if they're left to cry. Some parents can deal with the rigors of listening to the crying, some parents can not. Know the baby you have, recognize parent you are, and don't let well-meaning advice givers guilt you into taking the wrong path.
I've explained Ferber on AskMe before; he's not CIO in the sense that you ditch the kid in the crib and bail for 10 hours. His method is actually quite hands on, involves a decent amount of parental prep and planning, and works for babies in both categories, though it's by no means foolproof.
Ferber is not for every parent, and he is not for every child. However, among a certain type of parent his name has become synonymous with child abuse, neglect, and reasons to call CPS. Most of those people never bothered reading his book.
I personally like No Cry Sleep Solution and offer that as my first suggestion to parents of a 4 month old, though I totally agree with kristymcj that it's just freaking insane about any method that advocates letting the baby cry for a little bit. As long as you keep perspective while reading it and take her "research" with a grain of salt. It's a very gentle solution but frequently will not work for particularly stubborn sleepers or particularly sleep-deprived, desperate parents.
Some specific suggestions for you: yes, this is the fun time of sleep regression! It sucks, I am sorry, this is why babies are so cute - so you don't leave them in the woods when they stop sleeping.
Also, I worry about jumping up in the middle of the night to insert her pacifier. Pacifiers are a double-edged sword: great when they work, a better alternative than thumb-sucking, but holy hell there's that stage where the baby needs it ALL THE TIME to sleep and they wake up when it falls out, so the parents start wondering if it causes more harm than good.
It's up to you, but you might consider weaning her off the pacifier. Sure, she's young, but it's a LOT easier to wean a 4 month old off pacifiers than a 3 year old, and if you do this now then it'll be way easier to program her how to sleep without it. However, it's not a solution if it seems like she's a closet thumb sucker or if weaning feels like too much work.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:05 PM on March 2, 2012
However, remember that all babies are different (and parents, too). Some babies need to fuss before calming down, some babies will escalate in full-blown conniptions if they're left to cry. Some parents can deal with the rigors of listening to the crying, some parents can not. Know the baby you have, recognize parent you are, and don't let well-meaning advice givers guilt you into taking the wrong path.
I've explained Ferber on AskMe before; he's not CIO in the sense that you ditch the kid in the crib and bail for 10 hours. His method is actually quite hands on, involves a decent amount of parental prep and planning, and works for babies in both categories, though it's by no means foolproof.
Ferber is not for every parent, and he is not for every child. However, among a certain type of parent his name has become synonymous with child abuse, neglect, and reasons to call CPS. Most of those people never bothered reading his book.
I personally like No Cry Sleep Solution and offer that as my first suggestion to parents of a 4 month old, though I totally agree with kristymcj that it's just freaking insane about any method that advocates letting the baby cry for a little bit. As long as you keep perspective while reading it and take her "research" with a grain of salt. It's a very gentle solution but frequently will not work for particularly stubborn sleepers or particularly sleep-deprived, desperate parents.
Some specific suggestions for you: yes, this is the fun time of sleep regression! It sucks, I am sorry, this is why babies are so cute - so you don't leave them in the woods when they stop sleeping.
Also, I worry about jumping up in the middle of the night to insert her pacifier. Pacifiers are a double-edged sword: great when they work, a better alternative than thumb-sucking, but holy hell there's that stage where the baby needs it ALL THE TIME to sleep and they wake up when it falls out, so the parents start wondering if it causes more harm than good.
It's up to you, but you might consider weaning her off the pacifier. Sure, she's young, but it's a LOT easier to wean a 4 month old off pacifiers than a 3 year old, and if you do this now then it'll be way easier to program her how to sleep without it. However, it's not a solution if it seems like she's a closet thumb sucker or if weaning feels like too much work.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:05 PM on March 2, 2012
We tried CIO with our son at 7 or 8 months and it totally did not work. However, we gave it a second go at a year it took literally one night before he was going to sleep on his own at naptime and night. So I think different babies are ready for it at different ages.
When he was about 4-6 months old, we did spend a lot of time getting him to nap. I think everyone does; although yeah it would be nice to spend your time doing fun things together instead, when you have a young baby, it's a fact of life that you spend a fair amount of time getting the little one to sleep.
What worked for our guy (yes more anecdata): rocking in the car seat. It was pretty labor intensive, but was really the only way to get him to sleep for the first 6 months of his life. Car trips also worked, so we used to time trips so that he'd fall asleep on the way home and then we'd leave him in the car and keep an eye on him (though we live out in the country where we don't have to worry about people walking by and reporting us to CPS, so YMMV).
The book that really helped us finally sleep train our kid was The Sleep Lady's Good Night Sleep Tight. It has a gentler version of CIO that basically had you start out near your child and gradually (but not too gradually, because kids ritualize easily) leave the room over a few nights. But again, 4.5 months is way too young to try this, I would wait until at least 6 months and depending on your particular child, 8 or 10 or 12 months might be when she's ready for it.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:24 PM on March 2, 2012
When he was about 4-6 months old, we did spend a lot of time getting him to nap. I think everyone does; although yeah it would be nice to spend your time doing fun things together instead, when you have a young baby, it's a fact of life that you spend a fair amount of time getting the little one to sleep.
What worked for our guy (yes more anecdata): rocking in the car seat. It was pretty labor intensive, but was really the only way to get him to sleep for the first 6 months of his life. Car trips also worked, so we used to time trips so that he'd fall asleep on the way home and then we'd leave him in the car and keep an eye on him (though we live out in the country where we don't have to worry about people walking by and reporting us to CPS, so YMMV).
The book that really helped us finally sleep train our kid was The Sleep Lady's Good Night Sleep Tight. It has a gentler version of CIO that basically had you start out near your child and gradually (but not too gradually, because kids ritualize easily) leave the room over a few nights. But again, 4.5 months is way too young to try this, I would wait until at least 6 months and depending on your particular child, 8 or 10 or 12 months might be when she's ready for it.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:24 PM on March 2, 2012
Hey there, another parent of a 4.5 month old here, and buddy, I hear you loud and clear! When people are like "My little angel was sleeping through the night from 3 seconds old!" I just wanna punch em in the ear. Bastards.
Ahem.
I don't have any specific suggestions for you; we've tried a range off different things and there has been no "silver bullet" - which I've found is often a kind of implicit promise in a lot of baby advice books, especially pertaining to sleep. And when the silver bullet doesn't work you end up feeling a) cheated or lied to, b) that you fucked something up, or c) there's something wrong with you or your baby.
Fie to that, I say. Some things kinda worked for us, and some things kinda worked on some days and kinda didn't on other days. But I just want to shout out and say you are not alone, and whatever you decide, please don't feel guilty about it. I have realised that being a new parent is basically a wild see-saw: either feeling guilty that you're 'spoiling' your child and thus making it harder for everyone, and they will be a pampered failure in life, or feeling guilty that you're such a hard bastard you're gonna make your child a terrified, neurotic mess. If you're feelings these feelings - I don't know if you are - just remember: It's really hard to eff up a baby. They are tougher and more resilient than widely given credit for, and babies all over the world grow up fine with a staggering variety of parenting methods and inputs.
So whatever you decide; don't worry about it. Also, I understand the period we're both in can be a challenging one with regards to sleeping. Solids are on the horizon soon, and my understanding is that sleep improves a lot more when they've had a meal - or at least, you feel less guilty knowing they can't be hungry during the night.
posted by smoke at 2:29 PM on March 2, 2012
Ahem.
I don't have any specific suggestions for you; we've tried a range off different things and there has been no "silver bullet" - which I've found is often a kind of implicit promise in a lot of baby advice books, especially pertaining to sleep. And when the silver bullet doesn't work you end up feeling a) cheated or lied to, b) that you fucked something up, or c) there's something wrong with you or your baby.
Fie to that, I say. Some things kinda worked for us, and some things kinda worked on some days and kinda didn't on other days. But I just want to shout out and say you are not alone, and whatever you decide, please don't feel guilty about it. I have realised that being a new parent is basically a wild see-saw: either feeling guilty that you're 'spoiling' your child and thus making it harder for everyone, and they will be a pampered failure in life, or feeling guilty that you're such a hard bastard you're gonna make your child a terrified, neurotic mess. If you're feelings these feelings - I don't know if you are - just remember: It's really hard to eff up a baby. They are tougher and more resilient than widely given credit for, and babies all over the world grow up fine with a staggering variety of parenting methods and inputs.
So whatever you decide; don't worry about it. Also, I understand the period we're both in can be a challenging one with regards to sleeping. Solids are on the horizon soon, and my understanding is that sleep improves a lot more when they've had a meal - or at least, you feel less guilty knowing they can't be hungry during the night.
posted by smoke at 2:29 PM on March 2, 2012
My wife read The 90 Minute Sleep Solution and that has worked really well for the little rugger. We put him down for naps every 90 minutes instead of waiting for him to get fussy or exhibit sleep cues that we weren't skilled enough to read. As it turns out, he wanted a nap about every 90 minutes, like clockwork. My wife logs his sleeping/eating in her phone, and, having gone back and analyzed the data, as well as anecdotal data from us and his sitter, that time corresponds with his fussiness/sleepiness from before she discovered "the system."
Consequently, since he now sleeps better during the day, he's been sleeping better at night, too. In fact, he just started sleeping through the night in the past few weeks.
He would wake up in the middle of the night and fuss like you described your baby as doing. We would go in and pat his back or rub his tummy and he'd usually fall back asleep on his own. The key piece of information we got from our pediatrician was that it was time to encourage him to self sooth a little...by which she meant 10 minutes of crying before we'd go help him. My wife couldn't allow him to cry that long, so we settled on 5 minutes. That way he learns how to put himself to sleep when he wakes at night. We were skeptical at first, but he's done great. We have a video baby monitor, and have observed him fully awake at 3am just looking around, and back asleep 5 minutes later.
Long story short: for us, more regular naps during the day have directly resulted in better sleep for him at night. Hope that helps!
(Being a first time dad, I've not heard of the 4 month sleep regression until I entered this thread...now I'm scared.)
posted by tkerugger at 2:30 PM on March 2, 2012
Consequently, since he now sleeps better during the day, he's been sleeping better at night, too. In fact, he just started sleeping through the night in the past few weeks.
He would wake up in the middle of the night and fuss like you described your baby as doing. We would go in and pat his back or rub his tummy and he'd usually fall back asleep on his own. The key piece of information we got from our pediatrician was that it was time to encourage him to self sooth a little...by which she meant 10 minutes of crying before we'd go help him. My wife couldn't allow him to cry that long, so we settled on 5 minutes. That way he learns how to put himself to sleep when he wakes at night. We were skeptical at first, but he's done great. We have a video baby monitor, and have observed him fully awake at 3am just looking around, and back asleep 5 minutes later.
Long story short: for us, more regular naps during the day have directly resulted in better sleep for him at night. Hope that helps!
(Being a first time dad, I've not heard of the 4 month sleep regression until I entered this thread...now I'm scared.)
posted by tkerugger at 2:30 PM on March 2, 2012
Thanks for all the replies. They are really helpful, even if just to have some more ideas to try. It sounds like we should just expect a little craziness for a few more months yet. It also helps just to hear from other parents of 4-6 month-olds, so that we can see that we're not alone!
Last night was particularly bad. I think one thing is that she is becoming a noisy sleeper... she was waking us every 20-30 minutes all night, but most of the time she was still asleep with her eyes closed - just making noises in her sleep. I think we are going to try to keep the monitor volume lower so that we don't respond to all these fussing noises. We will still respond once she wakes enough to actually cry. I guess we are just paranoid about responding to every little noise since we are first time parents.
posted by barney_sap at 5:08 AM on March 3, 2012
Last night was particularly bad. I think one thing is that she is becoming a noisy sleeper... she was waking us every 20-30 minutes all night, but most of the time she was still asleep with her eyes closed - just making noises in her sleep. I think we are going to try to keep the monitor volume lower so that we don't respond to all these fussing noises. We will still respond once she wakes enough to actually cry. I guess we are just paranoid about responding to every little noise since we are first time parents.
posted by barney_sap at 5:08 AM on March 3, 2012
Aha! I did the same thing (responding to all the noises) with my first kid. My second kid is a much better sleeper. Maybe try a night or two without the monitor, unless your rooms are really far apart? Don't worry, if she cries, you'll still hear her, and it won't hurt her if she has to wait a couple of minutes before you respond. Really!
posted by chickenmagazine at 2:06 PM on March 3, 2012
posted by chickenmagazine at 2:06 PM on March 3, 2012
Oh, man. This is hard. My twelve-month-old hasn't really napped for long stretches of time since he was a newborn -- 40 minutes, twice a day. Done. Now he will do it in his bed, but when he was littler, he would. not. sleep. without touching another human being. I actually got a lot of reading done, but when I was frustrated with it, I just repeated to myself: "This is what is happening right now. It will change." It helped me stay in the moment (not worry about how clean the house was or whatever) and stay patient.
posted by linettasky at 7:33 PM on March 3, 2012
posted by linettasky at 7:33 PM on March 3, 2012
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Have you tried swaddling, yet?
Have you checked out "The No Cry Sleep Solution"?
posted by batmonkey at 9:45 AM on March 2, 2012