Brazil or bust
February 27, 2012 9:01 AM Subscribe
As an American, I possibly just got a job in Brazil. Now what?
Last night I was hanging out with some new Brazilian friends and talking and one says I should move to Brazil. I'm enjoying their company and looking for new experiences so I'm thinking "hmm... why not?". It turns out that this other guy in the group owns an IT company and is looking for a guy with my programming skills.
So... now if this offer turns out to be serious, I need to figure out if this is viable.
Facts:
-I know five words of Spanish, no Portuguese.
-Most of what I know about Brazil I learned last night.
-I'm a young typical white American guy in my early 20's.
-I'm practically broke(though I should probably fix this before I leave).
-All this talk of crime scares me a little, but I am mostly guessing this is a bunch of exaggeration.
-I have no idea what I am getting into.
So what should I be asking and what should I be looking up and what should I know before/if I do this?
Last night I was hanging out with some new Brazilian friends and talking and one says I should move to Brazil. I'm enjoying their company and looking for new experiences so I'm thinking "hmm... why not?". It turns out that this other guy in the group owns an IT company and is looking for a guy with my programming skills.
So... now if this offer turns out to be serious, I need to figure out if this is viable.
Facts:
-I know five words of Spanish, no Portuguese.
-Most of what I know about Brazil I learned last night.
-I'm a young typical white American guy in my early 20's.
-I'm practically broke(though I should probably fix this before I leave).
-All this talk of crime scares me a little, but I am mostly guessing this is a bunch of exaggeration.
-I have no idea what I am getting into.
So what should I be asking and what should I be looking up and what should I know before/if I do this?
It is just Brazilian small talk. This guy has likely no idea how he could get you a work visa.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 9:14 AM on February 27, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by yoyo_nyc at 9:14 AM on February 27, 2012 [7 favorites]
Before you take this too far, please realize that you can't get a work visa without this guy's company sponsoring you for one. (And you need a visa even to visit Brazil.)
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 9:18 AM on February 27, 2012
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 9:18 AM on February 27, 2012
Response by poster: @Pineapplicious: It's in south east Brazil, probably near Sao Paulo. No idea on the rest of that.
@yoyo_nyc: You're probably right, just for the fun of it, let's assume it is a real offer.
posted by Folk at 9:19 AM on February 27, 2012 [1 favorite]
@yoyo_nyc: You're probably right, just for the fun of it, let's assume it is a real offer.
posted by Folk at 9:19 AM on February 27, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you like languages, Portuguese is not that hard for Americans to learn the basics. The spoken grammar is very simple, and you can get pretty far on latin-based cognate words, once you get the pronunciation and the patterns. Unlike the stereotypical French, Brazilians tend to be overjoyed that a real live American is attempting to mangle their language, and tend to be pretty helpful. There are not, however, fluent English speakers to be found on every street corner.
Brazilians are very warm, and at least in my experience, ready to go out of their way for a new friend, or a friend of a friend. I was asked, in all seriousness, if I knew anyone in New York, because friend's brother would be going there next summer (note, I was at the time a grad student in the midwest). If it works out that someone can help you out, they do. If they think you can help them out, they ask. My brother and I were traveling there and visited the family of one of his classmates (note, classsmate still in the US), and no one thought that odd. We met up with another American internet-friend of my brother's, and brought him back to my uncle's house for a week, and no one thought that odd. Particularly because Brazil is a country worth showing off - people really seemed to want to share that with us, the Americans.
In fact, the warmth of the culture in some sense means that if he's mentioned he needs a programmer and you mention you are a programmer, he's pretty much required to say he should try to hire you. However, that doesn't mean that just because the guy said this, he can make it happen.
posted by aimedwander at 9:24 AM on February 27, 2012
Brazilians are very warm, and at least in my experience, ready to go out of their way for a new friend, or a friend of a friend. I was asked, in all seriousness, if I knew anyone in New York, because friend's brother would be going there next summer (note, I was at the time a grad student in the midwest). If it works out that someone can help you out, they do. If they think you can help them out, they ask. My brother and I were traveling there and visited the family of one of his classmates (note, classsmate still in the US), and no one thought that odd. We met up with another American internet-friend of my brother's, and brought him back to my uncle's house for a week, and no one thought that odd. Particularly because Brazil is a country worth showing off - people really seemed to want to share that with us, the Americans.
In fact, the warmth of the culture in some sense means that if he's mentioned he needs a programmer and you mention you are a programmer, he's pretty much required to say he should try to hire you. However, that doesn't mean that just because the guy said this, he can make it happen.
posted by aimedwander at 9:24 AM on February 27, 2012
You would probably be looking at obtaining what is called a "Vitem V" visa, which is based upon you having a valid employment contract with the Brazilian firm. This is not impossible to obtain, but is often quite difficult. The Brazilian company has to jump through many bureaucratic hoops in order to hire a foreigner, and these hoops are at some expense. In addition to the fees assessed on the bureaucracy, the Brazilian company also has to prove the following: (this list is not exhaustive)
1. That for every foreign employee, the company employees two Brazilians.
2. The ratio between all salaries paid to foreign and Brazilian workers must also be 1:2.
3. The company must be in full compliance with all Brazilian labor law, and must be ready to prove that it has paid up all of its taxes and other government-related fees.
4. It must prove that it has no choice but to hire the foreigner, and demonstrate that no Brazilian worker is capable of performing the same task.
For transnationals, these procedures are common yet costly. Many a small independent firm with the best of intentions are put off by the cost, time and paperwork involved.
Be prepared for this process to take anywhere from six months to a year. I have given you just a brief sketch of what is required, and I don't want you to be completely discouraged, but there is a likelihood that your job offer was given without a comprehensive understanding of what a Brazilian company needs to do in order to hire a foreigner.
In the event that you are hired and come to work in Brazil, please consider hiring a local accountant to insure that you yourself maintain strict compliance with the local tax and labor laws. Foreigners often garner more scrutiny.
posted by msali at 10:07 AM on February 27, 2012
1. That for every foreign employee, the company employees two Brazilians.
2. The ratio between all salaries paid to foreign and Brazilian workers must also be 1:2.
3. The company must be in full compliance with all Brazilian labor law, and must be ready to prove that it has paid up all of its taxes and other government-related fees.
4. It must prove that it has no choice but to hire the foreigner, and demonstrate that no Brazilian worker is capable of performing the same task.
For transnationals, these procedures are common yet costly. Many a small independent firm with the best of intentions are put off by the cost, time and paperwork involved.
Be prepared for this process to take anywhere from six months to a year. I have given you just a brief sketch of what is required, and I don't want you to be completely discouraged, but there is a likelihood that your job offer was given without a comprehensive understanding of what a Brazilian company needs to do in order to hire a foreigner.
In the event that you are hired and come to work in Brazil, please consider hiring a local accountant to insure that you yourself maintain strict compliance with the local tax and labor laws. Foreigners often garner more scrutiny.
posted by msali at 10:07 AM on February 27, 2012
Go for it.
1. You need a work visa. This guy has to sponsor you, usually he hires a company which arranges the work visa, moving your stuff, another company on the Brazil end to help you find a place to live, where the grocery store is, set up your electricity and gas etc, set up a bank account.
2. Start learning the language, again, see if this guy's company will help you. Berlitz is an in-person program (you go to class) Also your local university, rosetta stone, etc.
3. It's a fantastic experience, and I wish more people would try living overseas, you will learn about a different culture, and meet great new people.
Have fun!
Oh, the 'arrange everything' company which we used last time was The MI Group, I've only been a client, I have no affiliation.
posted by defcom1 at 10:11 AM on February 27, 2012
1. You need a work visa. This guy has to sponsor you, usually he hires a company which arranges the work visa, moving your stuff, another company on the Brazil end to help you find a place to live, where the grocery store is, set up your electricity and gas etc, set up a bank account.
2. Start learning the language, again, see if this guy's company will help you. Berlitz is an in-person program (you go to class) Also your local university, rosetta stone, etc.
3. It's a fantastic experience, and I wish more people would try living overseas, you will learn about a different culture, and meet great new people.
Have fun!
Oh, the 'arrange everything' company which we used last time was The MI Group, I've only been a client, I have no affiliation.
posted by defcom1 at 10:11 AM on February 27, 2012
This being said, it is possible to work the "off the grid". Never heard that someone got deported but you may have to pay a multa (fine). Also, if you chose this path you won't be able to go forward and backward Brazil<>US.
While westerners make the minority in the "illegal immigrants", it is very common to work there without a work visa. It is actually so common, that Brazil has an Amnesty every 10 years to grant green cards to the undocumented workers. And while it is not a law, the next amnesty is expected around 2018.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 4:34 AM on March 1, 2012
While westerners make the minority in the "illegal immigrants", it is very common to work there without a work visa. It is actually so common, that Brazil has an Amnesty every 10 years to grant green cards to the undocumented workers. And while it is not a law, the next amnesty is expected around 2018.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 4:34 AM on March 1, 2012
Yeah, COME! Brazil is one of the best places to be right now. BRIC is booming, lots of work available. Worry about visas later, no one cares about them, just get a tourist visa and come. São Paulo is recommended, market's really hungry for coders.
-I know five words of Spanish, no Portuguese.
No problem, everyone in the middle class is learning English, it's a huge status thing to speak English, people will love to show off with a real! live! american!
-Most of what I know about Brazil I learned last night.
Awesome!
-I'm a young typical white American guy in my early 20's.
Perfect!
-I'm practically broke(though I should probably fix this before I leave).
Food and lodging are the main $$$ drains in SP, stay at this hostel (look for Marina, tell her Tom sent you), they have a kitchen, cook. Get a metro/train/bus pass, the Bilhete Único.
-All this talk of crime scares me a little, but I am mostly guessing this is a bunch of exaggeration.
Absolutely. You have to understand the mindset of the newly-wealthy paulistano, there's a certain culture of gated communities + cars that's half about fear, half about status. If you AVOID CARS, wear normal clothes, don't carry your laptop around, nice basic cellfone + camera, nothing fancy, and use public transit you'll see the street differently, it'll be ok. NEVER get a car, it's a trap!
-I have no idea what I am getting into.
Adventure!
posted by Tom-B at 7:29 AM on March 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
-I know five words of Spanish, no Portuguese.
No problem, everyone in the middle class is learning English, it's a huge status thing to speak English, people will love to show off with a real! live! american!
-Most of what I know about Brazil I learned last night.
Awesome!
-I'm a young typical white American guy in my early 20's.
Perfect!
-I'm practically broke(though I should probably fix this before I leave).
Food and lodging are the main $$$ drains in SP, stay at this hostel (look for Marina, tell her Tom sent you), they have a kitchen, cook. Get a metro/train/bus pass, the Bilhete Único.
-All this talk of crime scares me a little, but I am mostly guessing this is a bunch of exaggeration.
Absolutely. You have to understand the mindset of the newly-wealthy paulistano, there's a certain culture of gated communities + cars that's half about fear, half about status. If you AVOID CARS, wear normal clothes, don't carry your laptop around, nice basic cellfone + camera, nothing fancy, and use public transit you'll see the street differently, it'll be ok. NEVER get a car, it's a trap!
-I have no idea what I am getting into.
Adventure!
posted by Tom-B at 7:29 AM on March 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Pineapplicious at 9:07 AM on February 27, 2012