How do I get this to stop?
January 30, 2012 7:03 PM Subscribe
I'd like advice on how to deal with a covert aggressive colleague. Grab a beer; this is a long post.
This post is long, a bit paranoid, complicated, neurotic, and petty.
Please keep in mind, though, that I think I'm the victim of a covert-aggressive office bully, and that I view the story you're about to read as a reflection of the extremism of my colleague, and the extreme lengths to which I need to go in order to get any sort of accountability from her and protect my own reputation.
There is a voice recorder involved, but it turns out my intuition I would need it turned out to be dead on. Also, I've gotten a prescription for Xanax to help me through this until it gets sorted out.
I'm a teacher, the other person in question, N, is also a teacher. We have students in common. N is their algebra teacher, which is their main math class, and I am their basic skills teacher, which means they come to me for remediation, with the expectation that ~80-90% of the time we'll be working on the material that she is teaching. There isn't a set protocol in place where I HAVE to be doing what she's doing, the expectation is that things will just sort of "work out."
A couple of times last year, students complained during one of my lessons that N told them to tell me that I HAVE to work on certain material, when I had begun a lesson on something else. I found this to be EXTREMELY jarring, since I actually WANT to be able to switch my lesson topic on a dime if someone needs help with it; there's no need for there to be any "HAVE TO" associated with it, and the idea of a student talking to me that way is disrespectful.
I reach out to N, saying that the kids are doing this. She says she's not saying this, and that the kids are just trying to get us mad at each other.
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This year, it happens again. A couple of my students are adamant that she's doing this. I'm doing a lesson. A student tells me that N said I HAVE to be doing a review for the midterm. I'm confused as hell about this and inform the student that that's not the way N and I communicate and continue with my lesson. The student asks to go to the bathroom. While the student is gone, I get a call from N saying that she "forgot" to ask me to go over the midterm, and could she send a copy over. I say yes, and a few minutes the student who left returns from the bathroom, and a few minutes after that, a different student returns with a copy of the midterm for me to review from.
It turns out the student went to N's class and told her I wasn't doing midterm review while she was gone. N didn't mention that the student had paid her a visit. I found this out by asking the student who delivered the test what happened.
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I reach out to N again, and ask her if she'd be willing to address the issue by sending me an email to "confirm" that she's not saying these things, and that if the issue gets pressed, she's going to pursue it with me as a case of the student trying to cause problems between colleagues.
The point of this would be, if I see the behavior again, I could show the student a statement from her saying she's not doing it and that she doesn't appreciate it, and that we're going to pursue this AS A TEAM if the problem continues. This should be enough to get the kid to stop.
I tell her, I'll make it really easy for you, I'll write the email for you, you can copy and paste it, and send it back to me.
She agrees.
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I write the email and send it to her. She responds with a VERY bizarre email containing a number of veiled passive aggressive insults and references to things that were never in dispute to begin with. Quotation marks below, but I'm paraphrasing.
"I'm not telling you what to do, I'm merely noticing that they're having trouble with x skills and asking you to follow up with them. I thought this was what your job was, but if you can't do it, don't worry, and I'll work with them after school on it."
"I don't know why they all complain about being confused in your class."
"I don't think I should have to sign that email if I'm not saying those things"
"Maybe you should simply talk to them yourself"
And so on.
The email is not a "reply with quote" that contains the original.
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I approach her again, and ask her to talk about the email. I do this at the beginning of the day, and she agrees to have a conversation with me about it after school.
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I then get an email from her saying that she had a conversation with my boss, who confirmed to her that she doesn't have to sign any email, and that she's not responsible for any disciplinary issues in my class, and that I should follow up with her if the three of us need to meet.
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I say that yes, I would like for the three of us to meet. By this point:
The two students who were initially adamant that N was saying these things to them are by far my biggest discipline problems. Big enough that I've had to meet with my boss and them. It's beginning to look to my boss like I'm having disciplinary issues.
One of those students somehow got it into her head that she could leave my classroom under false pretenses, go into N's classroom, complain to her that I wasn't doing what she told me N said I "had to" be doing, and get N to cover for her.
I've come up with something to address the issue that would literally take 20 seconds off N's time (copying and pasting the email) to create a shared understanding that this is not acceptable behavior and is consistent with several interpretations about what is really going on here. If the kids are really just spreading shit about us, then seeing proof that the two of us are willing to work together as a team will discourage them; if N is really behind it, then the email will show the kid that N will sell the kid out if the kid continues to press the issue.
N has worked incredibly hard to prevent that shared understanding from being reached.
N went directly to my boss to resolve an issue that she could have resolved with me directly, after telling me she would have the conversation to resolve it directly.
For additional context, there are twelve other teachers at my school with whom I have a similar working relationship to that with N. There are no trust issues or issues of disrespect from the students of these other teachers. All of these other relationships are phenomenally good.
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By this point, N has basically lost all credibility with me, and, I'm guessing, was trying to send me a VERY nasty in covert-aggressive language.
"I'm going to continue to tell you what to do through the kids. Any attempt to stop me is going to result in you being badmouthed to your boss. I cannot be trusted to act on what I say to you in private. But if you act like you're suspicious of me, you're going to appear like the one who is crazy."
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The thing is, I have audio recordings of the verbal conversations I had with her, and am prepared to make a case to my boss that she's acting in an intentionally dishonest and disorienting manner. My guess is that she was bluffing when she went to him figuring I wouldn't be willing to go into his office and make a case based on hearsay.
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After the meeting was originally scheduled for Friday, then cancelled and rescheduled for today, and then cancelled (by administrators), she approached my union representative (who I've also been in contact with) saying she'd like to talk. The email I got from her contained a lot of very nice statements about wanting to work together and thinking I'm a good teacher, etc, stuff that hadn't been a part of the conversation up until now. I agreed to meet with her, and my union rep and I waved my boss off asking for more time to resolve this situation amongst ourselves.
My question is: WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO?
My main goal is to get something to proactively stop the problem behavior in the form of a joint statement about how we communicate and work together that can be shown to the students and treated as fact.
But if I'm right about her exhibiting a shit ton of sociopathological warning signs here, I want something done to expose her and diminish her power, because we work in a school and I hate the idea of her beating out honorable people for a position of authority and then wielding that authority over them.
I don't want to be an administrator or department head, I just want to teach children math, give out finger puppets and fake moustaches, and get The Art of War off my night table.
This post is long, a bit paranoid, complicated, neurotic, and petty.
Please keep in mind, though, that I think I'm the victim of a covert-aggressive office bully, and that I view the story you're about to read as a reflection of the extremism of my colleague, and the extreme lengths to which I need to go in order to get any sort of accountability from her and protect my own reputation.
There is a voice recorder involved, but it turns out my intuition I would need it turned out to be dead on. Also, I've gotten a prescription for Xanax to help me through this until it gets sorted out.
I'm a teacher, the other person in question, N, is also a teacher. We have students in common. N is their algebra teacher, which is their main math class, and I am their basic skills teacher, which means they come to me for remediation, with the expectation that ~80-90% of the time we'll be working on the material that she is teaching. There isn't a set protocol in place where I HAVE to be doing what she's doing, the expectation is that things will just sort of "work out."
A couple of times last year, students complained during one of my lessons that N told them to tell me that I HAVE to work on certain material, when I had begun a lesson on something else. I found this to be EXTREMELY jarring, since I actually WANT to be able to switch my lesson topic on a dime if someone needs help with it; there's no need for there to be any "HAVE TO" associated with it, and the idea of a student talking to me that way is disrespectful.
I reach out to N, saying that the kids are doing this. She says she's not saying this, and that the kids are just trying to get us mad at each other.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This year, it happens again. A couple of my students are adamant that she's doing this. I'm doing a lesson. A student tells me that N said I HAVE to be doing a review for the midterm. I'm confused as hell about this and inform the student that that's not the way N and I communicate and continue with my lesson. The student asks to go to the bathroom. While the student is gone, I get a call from N saying that she "forgot" to ask me to go over the midterm, and could she send a copy over. I say yes, and a few minutes the student who left returns from the bathroom, and a few minutes after that, a different student returns with a copy of the midterm for me to review from.
It turns out the student went to N's class and told her I wasn't doing midterm review while she was gone. N didn't mention that the student had paid her a visit. I found this out by asking the student who delivered the test what happened.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I reach out to N again, and ask her if she'd be willing to address the issue by sending me an email to "confirm" that she's not saying these things, and that if the issue gets pressed, she's going to pursue it with me as a case of the student trying to cause problems between colleagues.
The point of this would be, if I see the behavior again, I could show the student a statement from her saying she's not doing it and that she doesn't appreciate it, and that we're going to pursue this AS A TEAM if the problem continues. This should be enough to get the kid to stop.
I tell her, I'll make it really easy for you, I'll write the email for you, you can copy and paste it, and send it back to me.
She agrees.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I write the email and send it to her. She responds with a VERY bizarre email containing a number of veiled passive aggressive insults and references to things that were never in dispute to begin with. Quotation marks below, but I'm paraphrasing.
"I'm not telling you what to do, I'm merely noticing that they're having trouble with x skills and asking you to follow up with them. I thought this was what your job was, but if you can't do it, don't worry, and I'll work with them after school on it."
"I don't know why they all complain about being confused in your class."
"I don't think I should have to sign that email if I'm not saying those things"
"Maybe you should simply talk to them yourself"
And so on.
The email is not a "reply with quote" that contains the original.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I approach her again, and ask her to talk about the email. I do this at the beginning of the day, and she agrees to have a conversation with me about it after school.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I then get an email from her saying that she had a conversation with my boss, who confirmed to her that she doesn't have to sign any email, and that she's not responsible for any disciplinary issues in my class, and that I should follow up with her if the three of us need to meet.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say that yes, I would like for the three of us to meet. By this point:
The two students who were initially adamant that N was saying these things to them are by far my biggest discipline problems. Big enough that I've had to meet with my boss and them. It's beginning to look to my boss like I'm having disciplinary issues.
One of those students somehow got it into her head that she could leave my classroom under false pretenses, go into N's classroom, complain to her that I wasn't doing what she told me N said I "had to" be doing, and get N to cover for her.
I've come up with something to address the issue that would literally take 20 seconds off N's time (copying and pasting the email) to create a shared understanding that this is not acceptable behavior and is consistent with several interpretations about what is really going on here. If the kids are really just spreading shit about us, then seeing proof that the two of us are willing to work together as a team will discourage them; if N is really behind it, then the email will show the kid that N will sell the kid out if the kid continues to press the issue.
N has worked incredibly hard to prevent that shared understanding from being reached.
N went directly to my boss to resolve an issue that she could have resolved with me directly, after telling me she would have the conversation to resolve it directly.
For additional context, there are twelve other teachers at my school with whom I have a similar working relationship to that with N. There are no trust issues or issues of disrespect from the students of these other teachers. All of these other relationships are phenomenally good.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By this point, N has basically lost all credibility with me, and, I'm guessing, was trying to send me a VERY nasty in covert-aggressive language.
"I'm going to continue to tell you what to do through the kids. Any attempt to stop me is going to result in you being badmouthed to your boss. I cannot be trusted to act on what I say to you in private. But if you act like you're suspicious of me, you're going to appear like the one who is crazy."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is, I have audio recordings of the verbal conversations I had with her, and am prepared to make a case to my boss that she's acting in an intentionally dishonest and disorienting manner. My guess is that she was bluffing when she went to him figuring I wouldn't be willing to go into his office and make a case based on hearsay.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After the meeting was originally scheduled for Friday, then cancelled and rescheduled for today, and then cancelled (by administrators), she approached my union representative (who I've also been in contact with) saying she'd like to talk. The email I got from her contained a lot of very nice statements about wanting to work together and thinking I'm a good teacher, etc, stuff that hadn't been a part of the conversation up until now. I agreed to meet with her, and my union rep and I waved my boss off asking for more time to resolve this situation amongst ourselves.
My question is: WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO?
My main goal is to get something to proactively stop the problem behavior in the form of a joint statement about how we communicate and work together that can be shown to the students and treated as fact.
But if I'm right about her exhibiting a shit ton of sociopathological warning signs here, I want something done to expose her and diminish her power, because we work in a school and I hate the idea of her beating out honorable people for a position of authority and then wielding that authority over them.
I don't want to be an administrator or department head, I just want to teach children math, give out finger puppets and fake moustaches, and get The Art of War off my night table.
Also -- the issues with your students are completely separate. Their discipline issues are completely unrelated and should be treated as such. You should stop trying to bring them in the middle of the fight. If they tell you what N says you "have" to do, say "thanks for the tip, I make my own lesson plans", but it's inappropriate for you to try to insert them into your argument with N like you're trying to do by showing them a letter from her or something. It's none of their business, and she's not your boss, so stop it.
posted by brainmouse at 7:14 PM on January 30, 2012 [24 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 7:14 PM on January 30, 2012 [24 favorites]
I'm also a teacher and just from the beginning, I really think you are overreacting. Sure the teacher might have said that in class (about reviewing for the midterm) and that she wanted you to do that. (The student may even have run back and forth- my students would find that very exciting.) Students' comments are like the game of 'telephone'- they may or may not be connected with what was actually said originally.
I would never sign anything from a coworker and I would be really careful about recording conversations. In fact, it's your behavior I find very worrying. Be careful. It's your job on the line. Interpersonal staff issues are so very very minor as compared to dealing with all of the other overwhelming demands of the job. She is not harassing you or overtly bothering you.
Please, I would let all this drop and maybe see a counselor to relieve some of your stress.
posted by bquarters at 7:17 PM on January 30, 2012 [35 favorites]
I would never sign anything from a coworker and I would be really careful about recording conversations. In fact, it's your behavior I find very worrying. Be careful. It's your job on the line. Interpersonal staff issues are so very very minor as compared to dealing with all of the other overwhelming demands of the job. She is not harassing you or overtly bothering you.
Please, I would let all this drop and maybe see a counselor to relieve some of your stress.
posted by bquarters at 7:17 PM on January 30, 2012 [35 favorites]
I would not admit to covertly recording anything, especially on school grounds. I can imagine situations where that could very quickly become the central focus (especially if there's even a tiny chance students were around). It won't help your case with your boss; that was drastic and it will highlight that you should have been speaking with your boss about this much, much sooner than you have.
I also think that you requesting a specifically worded email from her could be (mis?)construed as a little sociopathological itself.
I understand you are trying to protect yourself, but you should really work with her only through your principal from now on until you can come to an understanding of what you can expect from one another. The lack of set protocol isn't working anymore, so establish one. If your principal can't help you, or is a part of the politics, are there other people at your school who can support you?
posted by juliplease at 7:22 PM on January 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
I also think that you requesting a specifically worded email from her could be (mis?)construed as a little sociopathological itself.
I understand you are trying to protect yourself, but you should really work with her only through your principal from now on until you can come to an understanding of what you can expect from one another. The lack of set protocol isn't working anymore, so establish one. If your principal can't help you, or is a part of the politics, are there other people at your school who can support you?
posted by juliplease at 7:22 PM on January 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
At the meeting, be straight up. Don't be scared. Have talking points ready. Edit them down, less rambling than here. Dates and times.
Include as one of your complaints the tone of her e-mails. Print out and include quotes.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:33 PM on January 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Include as one of your complaints the tone of her e-mails. Print out and include quotes.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:33 PM on January 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
I can understand why someone would object to the idea of an email. I'm just saying, wouldn't it have been easier for her to just say, "I'm not comfortable with that idea, let's see if there's another way to address it" back in the original conversation, rather than allowing me to believe that she thought it was a good idea, and going along with it, and then going to my boss after telling me she'd be willing to discuss it further?
The place I was coming from was, the students are gossiping about us, going back and forth. If the two of us have a conversation with them, all of us in the same room, that will send a powerful message to them that we're working together. Obviously, I can't do this every time something like this comes up; the email would have just been a stand-in for the other teacher and her point of view.
The sense that I'm getting from the comments so far, though, is that I should allow my union rep to mediate.
posted by alphanerd at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2012
The place I was coming from was, the students are gossiping about us, going back and forth. If the two of us have a conversation with them, all of us in the same room, that will send a powerful message to them that we're working together. Obviously, I can't do this every time something like this comes up; the email would have just been a stand-in for the other teacher and her point of view.
The sense that I'm getting from the comments so far, though, is that I should allow my union rep to mediate.
posted by alphanerd at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2012
First of all, keep the kids completely out of this. This is an issue between you & your colleague only. If they play the "but N said this," just say something COMPLETELY neutral (including tone & affect) along the lines of, "Oh, that's interesting. I don't recall hearing that myself. We have other things to do today," and go on with class business.
What does your union rep say? I would be asking for his or her opinion on this. Also, what does your department head say?
And the audio recordings? I would destroy those immediately. There are almost certainly legal issues (as well as ethical ones) and I doubt any of your colleagues will ever trust you again if they find out about them.
posted by smirkette at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
What does your union rep say? I would be asking for his or her opinion on this. Also, what does your department head say?
And the audio recordings? I would destroy those immediately. There are almost certainly legal issues (as well as ethical ones) and I doubt any of your colleagues will ever trust you again if they find out about them.
posted by smirkette at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh, and to keep the voice recorder thing under wraps unless absolutely necessary. But I'm still interested in hearing whether anyone has been in a similar situation where they've believed a coworker was trying to undermine them.
posted by alphanerd at 7:35 PM on January 30, 2012
posted by alphanerd at 7:35 PM on January 30, 2012
From the start, I think you overreacted here. Drastically. Then you became (and now remain) fixated on this idea that this joint statement is going to solve everything. It won't.
When your own story, told from your perspective, makes you look bad, there is probably some fault with you.
Is there some kind of she's the teacher, you're the tutor dynamic going on here that's making things bad from one or both of your perspectives? Do you have thin skin? Is she actually a bitch? I don't know, maybe all of these things, although I'm willing to be that for sure you have thin skin.
How do you deal with this situation? Step back. Go to the meeting. Acknowledge that things suck and try to come to terms with it.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:37 PM on January 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
When your own story, told from your perspective, makes you look bad, there is probably some fault with you.
Is there some kind of she's the teacher, you're the tutor dynamic going on here that's making things bad from one or both of your perspectives? Do you have thin skin? Is she actually a bitch? I don't know, maybe all of these things, although I'm willing to be that for sure you have thin skin.
How do you deal with this situation? Step back. Go to the meeting. Acknowledge that things suck and try to come to terms with it.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:37 PM on January 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Check on the legality of all this recording. Also, while I bet that when you're actually on the ground it seems to make perfect sense - especially if you're being, on some level, gaslighted - it sounds hella weird.
If a co-worker asked me to sign a statement that he/she had written in the manner you describe, I would assume that I was being set up. If she's dodgy on some level, she isn't going to do it, but if she's on the up-and-up, she would still probably balk. If you want email confirmation on something like this in the future, I suggest that you outline your concerns, make a request and ask for feedback: "Let me know your thoughts! Would you be okay with handling the situation in X manner?" That's pretty standard email-ese, provides plenty of documentation and doesn't sound weird.
I personally think that having students run to her to complain during your lesson is absolutely unacceptable, she should not be allowing it and she should be backing you up on your lesson plans. That's what I would focus on.
"Nancy," you could say, "We seem to have had a series of miscommunications about how to work together, and we need to get on the same page so that I can support you. When students leave my lesson without permission to 'tattle' to you, it disrupts my teaching and I can't be effective. What I'd like is for you to back me up with students and bring any concerns to my attention when we meet outside class. I'd also like to talk with you in detail about what you'd like me to be teaching and how we can communicate that to students. Students feel that you have told them that I'm not teaching the right things. This undercuts my lessons and they don't learn effectively. I need us to be on the same page about what I'm teaching."
It seems very weird to me that she's telling students this stuff and that students care. When I was a kid, none of the students in extra math tutoring would have been that invested in the content of the lessons. Is she saying something really weird like "if you don't pass this because Ms. H isn't teaching you, you'll be held back?"
posted by Frowner at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2012 [14 favorites]
If a co-worker asked me to sign a statement that he/she had written in the manner you describe, I would assume that I was being set up. If she's dodgy on some level, she isn't going to do it, but if she's on the up-and-up, she would still probably balk. If you want email confirmation on something like this in the future, I suggest that you outline your concerns, make a request and ask for feedback: "Let me know your thoughts! Would you be okay with handling the situation in X manner?" That's pretty standard email-ese, provides plenty of documentation and doesn't sound weird.
I personally think that having students run to her to complain during your lesson is absolutely unacceptable, she should not be allowing it and she should be backing you up on your lesson plans. That's what I would focus on.
"Nancy," you could say, "We seem to have had a series of miscommunications about how to work together, and we need to get on the same page so that I can support you. When students leave my lesson without permission to 'tattle' to you, it disrupts my teaching and I can't be effective. What I'd like is for you to back me up with students and bring any concerns to my attention when we meet outside class. I'd also like to talk with you in detail about what you'd like me to be teaching and how we can communicate that to students. Students feel that you have told them that I'm not teaching the right things. This undercuts my lessons and they don't learn effectively. I need us to be on the same page about what I'm teaching."
It seems very weird to me that she's telling students this stuff and that students care. When I was a kid, none of the students in extra math tutoring would have been that invested in the content of the lessons. Is she saying something really weird like "if you don't pass this because Ms. H isn't teaching you, you'll be held back?"
posted by Frowner at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2012 [14 favorites]
Best answer: I am going to answer this in two parts because I see two issues here*
1) The students: One thing to really understand with students is that many of them don't give a damn about learning. All they care about is passing exams. Thus, they will do and say whatever it takes to suck as much "exam" information out of you as they possibly can.
You may be saying: "here is some important information that will help you in your future life and in future classes"
They hear: "stuff not related to the exam blah blah blah more stuff I don't care about blah blah blah stuff that may possibly be on the exam blah blah blah"
This will always be an issue for you, so get used to it. Don't expect outside teachers to confirm with you or give you a written statement for your students. This will just make you look (to the students) like you are not in control and N is. That N rules the roost and thus they shouldn't take you seriously. In class, you are the boss. You can tell them NO.
2) The other teacher:
I am their basic skills teacher, which means they come to me for remediation
Where I teach, there always seems to be differing opinions about what basic skills teachers are supposed to do, but usually they expect one of two things:
a) Review what was taught in class
b) Expand upon what was taught in class
Believe it or not, there is a difference. The "review" people want the basic skills teachers to review exactly what was taught in class to the letter. almost a repeat of the class but with more one on one time. The "expand" people want the basic skills teachers to expand and add to what was taught in response to questions that the students ask. It would be a very good idea for you to ask N which category that she falls in as I have seen this cause some major issues for teachers in the past. If she wants you to be a "reviewer", they you are well within your rights to ask for exact notes about what she wants you to cover.
*Note: I teach at a university, so the dynamic may differ little/greatly.
posted by Shouraku at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
1) The students: One thing to really understand with students is that many of them don't give a damn about learning. All they care about is passing exams. Thus, they will do and say whatever it takes to suck as much "exam" information out of you as they possibly can.
You may be saying: "here is some important information that will help you in your future life and in future classes"
They hear: "stuff not related to the exam blah blah blah more stuff I don't care about blah blah blah stuff that may possibly be on the exam blah blah blah"
This will always be an issue for you, so get used to it. Don't expect outside teachers to confirm with you or give you a written statement for your students. This will just make you look (to the students) like you are not in control and N is. That N rules the roost and thus they shouldn't take you seriously. In class, you are the boss. You can tell them NO.
2) The other teacher:
I am their basic skills teacher, which means they come to me for remediation
Where I teach, there always seems to be differing opinions about what basic skills teachers are supposed to do, but usually they expect one of two things:
a) Review what was taught in class
b) Expand upon what was taught in class
Believe it or not, there is a difference. The "review" people want the basic skills teachers to review exactly what was taught in class to the letter. almost a repeat of the class but with more one on one time. The "expand" people want the basic skills teachers to expand and add to what was taught in response to questions that the students ask. It would be a very good idea for you to ask N which category that she falls in as I have seen this cause some major issues for teachers in the past. If she wants you to be a "reviewer", they you are well within your rights to ask for exact notes about what she wants you to cover.
*Note: I teach at a university, so the dynamic may differ little/greatly.
posted by Shouraku at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
You might not like to hear this, but here is my answer:
The problem here is you.
When there is an expectation that you spend 90% of your lesson on material taught by N, then read between the lines - that means 100% with a couple of minutes of off-topic banter.
The "writing-an-email-on-her-behalf" thing is the height of rudeness and passive aggressiveness. The idea that you would show it to a student, bizarre.
The recording conversations, takes you to the brink of psychotic. Do not reveal that you have done so - it will paint you in a terribly bad light.
posted by smithsmith at 7:40 PM on January 30, 2012 [18 favorites]
The problem here is you.
When there is an expectation that you spend 90% of your lesson on material taught by N, then read between the lines - that means 100% with a couple of minutes of off-topic banter.
The "writing-an-email-on-her-behalf" thing is the height of rudeness and passive aggressiveness. The idea that you would show it to a student, bizarre.
The recording conversations, takes you to the brink of psychotic. Do not reveal that you have done so - it will paint you in a terribly bad light.
posted by smithsmith at 7:40 PM on January 30, 2012 [18 favorites]
As a former teacher I have to state clearly: KEEP THE KIDS OUT OF THIS. The more you involve the kids, the more you risk getting parents involved, and that will just raise the shitstorm to a new level.
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:40 PM on January 30, 2012
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:40 PM on January 30, 2012
Okay. I'm getting the sense from people that I'm not coming across well here.
As for the issue of bringing the kids into this, those are my feelings exactly. From my perspective, though, she's the one who's bringing the kids in here, if in fact she is telling them these things.
From my perspective, it looks to me like she really is saying these things to the kids, because of how far they're willing to push things on this issue, the fact that this is the second year in a row that kids are attributing this stuff to her (different students), the fact that these kids didn't say these things about their other teachers when I had them in younger grades, and the fact that no student has ever tried to do this sort of game of telephone with any other teacher.
posted by alphanerd at 7:50 PM on January 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
As for the issue of bringing the kids into this, those are my feelings exactly. From my perspective, though, she's the one who's bringing the kids in here, if in fact she is telling them these things.
From my perspective, it looks to me like she really is saying these things to the kids, because of how far they're willing to push things on this issue, the fact that this is the second year in a row that kids are attributing this stuff to her (different students), the fact that these kids didn't say these things about their other teachers when I had them in younger grades, and the fact that no student has ever tried to do this sort of game of telephone with any other teacher.
posted by alphanerd at 7:50 PM on January 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Well, yeah, of course the kids are doing this. They're loving seeing you upset about this, and knowing that they're causing trouble between you two. It's your job to stop it. They "tattle", you shrug and say "if you say so" and do what you were going to do. Sure, she's starting it, whatever she's doing, but you're making it super fun for them and escalating it. Cut it out.
posted by brainmouse at 7:54 PM on January 30, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 7:54 PM on January 30, 2012 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Ok, I said this kindly, but now I see that I may need to be more direct:
What the students say does not matter. You are the boss.
What she says to the students in no way matters. She is not your boss
All that matters is that YOU are doing your job. Find out whether that is to review the lessons taught in her class or expand upon those lessons and do your job.
Do not make this personal. Find out what is expected of you and do it with no more regard for gossip from the students or what N may or may not be saying to them.
posted by Shouraku at 7:56 PM on January 30, 2012 [20 favorites]
What the students say does not matter. You are the boss.
What she says to the students in no way matters. She is not your boss
All that matters is that YOU are doing your job. Find out whether that is to review the lessons taught in her class or expand upon those lessons and do your job.
Do not make this personal. Find out what is expected of you and do it with no more regard for gossip from the students or what N may or may not be saying to them.
posted by Shouraku at 7:56 PM on January 30, 2012 [20 favorites]
As a former teacher (and union building rep), I can tell you that you will not win over students by bringing them into the game. They win if you involve them because, OMG TEACHER DRAMA. The more you acknowledge the situation to the kids, the more they win and the less they will think of you. Guaranteed. Just as when kids act up, you have to rise above crazy colleagues--and every school has crazy teachers, admin, and staff. I could tell you stories, but it'd be unprofessional.
I can tell this situation is really, really bothering you, but I can't see anything good coming out of pushing it. Ignore the other teacher as much as possible. Work with your department chair and principal. Take care of your own classroom and ignore what's going on in the other teacher's as much as possible given your support class role.
Being a teacher means dealing with interpersonal conflict all the time. This is good (but painful) practice.
posted by smirkette at 7:57 PM on January 30, 2012
I can tell this situation is really, really bothering you, but I can't see anything good coming out of pushing it. Ignore the other teacher as much as possible. Work with your department chair and principal. Take care of your own classroom and ignore what's going on in the other teacher's as much as possible given your support class role.
Being a teacher means dealing with interpersonal conflict all the time. This is good (but painful) practice.
posted by smirkette at 7:57 PM on January 30, 2012
Shouraku, your take on things so far has been extremely good.
posted by alphanerd at 7:59 PM on January 30, 2012
posted by alphanerd at 7:59 PM on January 30, 2012
Best answer: I agree with brainquarters and juliplease. I don't think you have handled this very well. I DO totally understand why you acted the way you did, but reading between the lines I am guessing you are a fairly new teacher and new to the ways that people can manipulate you and play you against others, and how upsetting that can be.
First -- the kids. These horrible, manipulative little shits. They have sniffed out a rivalry and a power structure and they are engaging in some mean little games by pitting you against the other teacher. But in your response, you totally lost the game, and the kids played you, hard. The proper response to their bullshit little messages was, "we have an agenda in my class today." You should NEVER have let yourself get drawn into the "let's you and her fight" game (I just recently learned about that from Ask Metafilter, btw), and it was a major misstep for you to do so. You showed weakness, fear, lack of confidence, and lack of leadership and savvy. I'm not saying you ignore the need to review those topics -- but, even if ONLY to show who is in charge, you continue with YOUR plan and you are unflappable in the face of their attempts to rattle you. YES, by all means review them on N's material, but not at the kids' direction. As you handled it, you showed the kids you are not secure in your role and your standing.
Second -- N, the other teacher. You should not have let yourself seem rattled or fazed. You failed at this, you really crumbled with all the stuff about signing the damn email. Again, I totally understand, but once again, you lost when you did that. You should have shown N that you were unfazed by any suggestion of "drama," you should have been cheerful, and if you even acknowledged those awful messages passed by those wretched little brats, you acknowledge in a humorous way that does not reveal any insecurity. You must keep your cool and be unflappable and in command.
Third -- the administrators. You need to get yourself together, forget your missteps, and treat this, going forward, as just a need to sort out exactly what is expected of you and N. This crazy stuff -- emails you want signed, surreptitious recordings -- must stop. It makes you look totally nuts, paranoid, and like you're the problem.
From here on out, be a leader in your class, don't let the students pit you against other teachers, do what needs to be done while also asserting yourself, and always act like you are calm and in command!
posted by jayder at 8:04 PM on January 30, 2012 [13 favorites]
First -- the kids. These horrible, manipulative little shits. They have sniffed out a rivalry and a power structure and they are engaging in some mean little games by pitting you against the other teacher. But in your response, you totally lost the game, and the kids played you, hard. The proper response to their bullshit little messages was, "we have an agenda in my class today." You should NEVER have let yourself get drawn into the "let's you and her fight" game (I just recently learned about that from Ask Metafilter, btw), and it was a major misstep for you to do so. You showed weakness, fear, lack of confidence, and lack of leadership and savvy. I'm not saying you ignore the need to review those topics -- but, even if ONLY to show who is in charge, you continue with YOUR plan and you are unflappable in the face of their attempts to rattle you. YES, by all means review them on N's material, but not at the kids' direction. As you handled it, you showed the kids you are not secure in your role and your standing.
Second -- N, the other teacher. You should not have let yourself seem rattled or fazed. You failed at this, you really crumbled with all the stuff about signing the damn email. Again, I totally understand, but once again, you lost when you did that. You should have shown N that you were unfazed by any suggestion of "drama," you should have been cheerful, and if you even acknowledged those awful messages passed by those wretched little brats, you acknowledge in a humorous way that does not reveal any insecurity. You must keep your cool and be unflappable and in command.
Third -- the administrators. You need to get yourself together, forget your missteps, and treat this, going forward, as just a need to sort out exactly what is expected of you and N. This crazy stuff -- emails you want signed, surreptitious recordings -- must stop. It makes you look totally nuts, paranoid, and like you're the problem.
From here on out, be a leader in your class, don't let the students pit you against other teachers, do what needs to be done while also asserting yourself, and always act like you are calm and in command!
posted by jayder at 8:04 PM on January 30, 2012 [13 favorites]
The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
Assuming you are clear on what your responsibilities are, do them. Ignore N. Tell the kids that the lesson you are teaching is the one that you are supposed to. Teach the lesson and teach it well.
Ultimately, in this case, you will look good and she will look bad if you do your job and she looks like she is using you to cover for her not doing hers.
It sounds like you need to focus on your own classroom management. Do not worry about anyone else telling you how to do your job other than your boss, the department chair or the Principal.
posted by AugustWest at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2012
Assuming you are clear on what your responsibilities are, do them. Ignore N. Tell the kids that the lesson you are teaching is the one that you are supposed to. Teach the lesson and teach it well.
Ultimately, in this case, you will look good and she will look bad if you do your job and she looks like she is using you to cover for her not doing hers.
It sounds like you need to focus on your own classroom management. Do not worry about anyone else telling you how to do your job other than your boss, the department chair or the Principal.
posted by AugustWest at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2012
Glad to help. What you are going threw right now is always tough. I am sorry that you are expected to teach while being given only unspecific instructions from N and your department . It makes it very hard to do your job.
Know that this is a common issue, you are not alone.
posted by Shouraku at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2012
Know that this is a common issue, you are not alone.
posted by Shouraku at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2012
You should NEVER have let yourself get drawn into the "let's you and her fight" game (I just recently learned about that from Ask Metafilter, btw)
I'm sorry, but I kind of have to laugh at this comment, because I think I was the one who made reference to it on Ask Me.
Thank you to everyone for reading this and giving me a badly-needed reality check here on how to proceed, and please keep it coming.
There's still a chance for me and N to resolve this amicably and keep this from escalating further, and I'm at a point with things where I'm going to try to address it that way.
posted by alphanerd at 8:09 PM on January 30, 2012
I'm sorry, but I kind of have to laugh at this comment, because I think I was the one who made reference to it on Ask Me.
Thank you to everyone for reading this and giving me a badly-needed reality check here on how to proceed, and please keep it coming.
There's still a chance for me and N to resolve this amicably and keep this from escalating further, and I'm at a point with things where I'm going to try to address it that way.
posted by alphanerd at 8:09 PM on January 30, 2012
Other details that I probably should have mentioned:
We dated, very briefly, when she first started working at the school 3 years ago. She pressed very hard (I know, we're both grown-ups). Things ended after a lot of passive aggressive remarks on her end, me saying no to sex with her, and me cancelling on her for a date on Halloween after finding out she'd spent 4 hours at a bar near the school and then planned to drive through the town where she teaches with children everywhere to come see me.
There's more, of course, much more, but there's a history here between us.
After reading everyone's comments, I think the best thing for me to do would be to try to clear things up with her tomorrow in the presence of my union rep, thank fucking God for him, and stop this issue from progressing further, and to see if I can reach some sort of detente with her that winds up making both of us look good in the aftermath of all of this.
posted by alphanerd at 8:50 PM on January 30, 2012
We dated, very briefly, when she first started working at the school 3 years ago. She pressed very hard (I know, we're both grown-ups). Things ended after a lot of passive aggressive remarks on her end, me saying no to sex with her, and me cancelling on her for a date on Halloween after finding out she'd spent 4 hours at a bar near the school and then planned to drive through the town where she teaches with children everywhere to come see me.
There's more, of course, much more, but there's a history here between us.
After reading everyone's comments, I think the best thing for me to do would be to try to clear things up with her tomorrow in the presence of my union rep, thank fucking God for him, and stop this issue from progressing further, and to see if I can reach some sort of detente with her that winds up making both of us look good in the aftermath of all of this.
posted by alphanerd at 8:50 PM on January 30, 2012
Also, thank you again to everyone who commented, especially those of you who were critical of me. Your perspective REALLY helped.
posted by alphanerd at 8:53 PM on January 30, 2012
posted by alphanerd at 8:53 PM on January 30, 2012
We dated, very briefly, when she first started working at the school 3 years ago.
[Needle scratch] Whhaat? Yeah, that's probably not relevant AT ALL. Sheesh. C'mon. Both of you, behave yourselves.
Look, just take the high road. Period. What's the purpose of your job? Educating students. How should you make decisions? Do what's best for educating the kids. How should you defend those decisions? Ask how petty bullshit (uh, phrased diplomatically) is contributing to the education of the kids.
posted by desuetude at 9:11 PM on January 30, 2012 [22 favorites]
[Needle scratch] Whhaat? Yeah, that's probably not relevant AT ALL. Sheesh. C'mon. Both of you, behave yourselves.
Look, just take the high road. Period. What's the purpose of your job? Educating students. How should you make decisions? Do what's best for educating the kids. How should you defend those decisions? Ask how petty bullshit (uh, phrased diplomatically) is contributing to the education of the kids.
posted by desuetude at 9:11 PM on January 30, 2012 [22 favorites]
Sorry I didn't mention that before. My only explanation is that I'm so habituated to pretending that it didn't happen in the context of talking about my work that I didn't bring it up here, though of course it's been on my mind.
posted by alphanerd at 9:21 PM on January 30, 2012
posted by alphanerd at 9:21 PM on January 30, 2012
We dated, very briefly, when she first started working at the school 3 years ago.
My brain literally stopped functioning when I read that. That is majorly important and could explain much of the issues that you are having with her.
If you dip your pen in company ink, you really need to include that in your question.
Life tip: even if you are "habituated to pretending that it didn't happen" she may very well not be. People who "pressed very hard" very rarely let go very easily.
posted by Shouraku at 9:24 PM on January 30, 2012 [12 favorites]
My brain literally stopped functioning when I read that. That is majorly important and could explain much of the issues that you are having with her.
If you dip your pen in company ink, you really need to include that in your question.
Life tip: even if you are "habituated to pretending that it didn't happen" she may very well not be. People who "pressed very hard" very rarely let go very easily.
posted by Shouraku at 9:24 PM on January 30, 2012 [12 favorites]
We dated, very briefly, when she first started working at the school 3 years ago.
Be ready for this to come up at the meeting with the union rep tomorrow.
posted by Space Kitty at 9:51 PM on January 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Be ready for this to come up at the meeting with the union rep tomorrow.
posted by Space Kitty at 9:51 PM on January 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I've been a teacher, and now I supervise novices and mentor teaching staff as well as writing curriculum. I see this, as you warned 'neurotic' 'paranoid' stuff sometimes when I visit schools and observe lessons and department politics. Teaching sometimes attracts folk with developmental issues - probably like many other professions, only this one means we go back to high school, adolescent reverberations which in susceptible people creates a theatre for some acting out. They don't know they are doing it, and will take up a range of defensive positions to show they aren't doing it, or that there's a valid reason for their escalation and dramatics.
Reality check - you're interpersonal crap with this person, as well as your psychological baggage regarding this person, [and hers regarding you] is interfering with valuable classroom time when you could be meeting the students' needs. They need to feel safely ushered towards new knowledge in the company of a warm, authoritative, caring, responsible adult who cares about their learning and their comfort with learning. Do you not remember how daunting exams and tests were for you as a kid?* Don't you think you need to make sure that if you are remediating, you have an even greater responsibility to work in tandem with other teachers of these students?
I've got to say that over the last 20 years of being in a classroom, running a department, mentoring, observing hundreds and hundreds of lessons, departments and schools, this situation and your reporting of it here, verges on the batshitinsane/reportable. Who.the.fuck. wants to hear a recording [what?!] or revive the Spanish Inquisition over a minor programming issue - that simply requires two teachers to sit together with their programmes at the start of the semester and work out a complementary learning schedule that meets their students' needs. This back n forth with emails, the signing crap, the bother to kids and admin is your, and possibly the other teacher, acting out other crap. I was going to ask what intimacy or interpersonal strife you had going with this person that you would escalate so wildly and feel so fucking defensive about. The 'we dated briefly' saves that rumination. You are doing yourselves, your school, the kids and the profession a disservice by having this shitstorm involving covert operations, corralling of the kids and now admin involved. [This is going to look terrible to admin. Sort yourselves out because if this [your post] is the tenor of what you'd bring to them, you're going to be seen as unprofessional and a Problem.]
Don't sit down with taping devices or emails and feather quills for declarations of blame, clarification etc. That is just ego driven bullshit that looks very immature and unprofessional. Instead: get out your programmes/lesson plans and start syncing them up to solve the problem which is that the kids are confused. Sync test dates and revision lessons appropriately. Revise your lesson manner so that when kids express confusion or shit-stir, you can smoothly allay their fears and move on to the purpose of lesson times: Lessons. Drop the KGB theatrics and he said/she said crap and get on with your actual job. Depersonalise the other teacher's comments to her students - they will get no traction if the kids in your class are having their learning and management needs met.
*The ol' 'the other teacher said...' is such an easy shit-stirring mechanism from students. Sometimes though, it is about expressing anxiety that there will be unknown things on a test. This is particularly true in remedial classes where students already suffer a lack of confidence about success, and dread the confirmation of 'failure' that a poorly completed test confers. Or a reflection of their wider dissatisfaction with your ability to help them feel safe encountering that test. Mature, responsible teachers, who care about the profession and their charge to facilitate learning, handle the situation by thinking about what the student needs. You ask the students to clarify what they are saying - 'you sound like you're worried you aren't getting the right information. Is there something you'd like me to go back over?' When a student says they are confused or missing material they think they need, listen to that. Not, Ms X said such n such, and then blah-blah-blah. Try: "Well Ms x and are I are working together on your programme, so even if it doesn't look like we're doing the same thing at the same time, we're both still going to cover all of the important stuff you need to know... let's get started." [Not: "OMG, she said WHAT??"]
posted by honey-barbara at 11:19 PM on January 30, 2012 [23 favorites]
Reality check - you're interpersonal crap with this person, as well as your psychological baggage regarding this person, [and hers regarding you] is interfering with valuable classroom time when you could be meeting the students' needs. They need to feel safely ushered towards new knowledge in the company of a warm, authoritative, caring, responsible adult who cares about their learning and their comfort with learning. Do you not remember how daunting exams and tests were for you as a kid?* Don't you think you need to make sure that if you are remediating, you have an even greater responsibility to work in tandem with other teachers of these students?
I've got to say that over the last 20 years of being in a classroom, running a department, mentoring, observing hundreds and hundreds of lessons, departments and schools, this situation and your reporting of it here, verges on the batshitinsane/reportable. Who.the.fuck. wants to hear a recording [what?!] or revive the Spanish Inquisition over a minor programming issue - that simply requires two teachers to sit together with their programmes at the start of the semester and work out a complementary learning schedule that meets their students' needs. This back n forth with emails, the signing crap, the bother to kids and admin is your, and possibly the other teacher, acting out other crap. I was going to ask what intimacy or interpersonal strife you had going with this person that you would escalate so wildly and feel so fucking defensive about. The 'we dated briefly' saves that rumination. You are doing yourselves, your school, the kids and the profession a disservice by having this shitstorm involving covert operations, corralling of the kids and now admin involved. [This is going to look terrible to admin. Sort yourselves out because if this [your post] is the tenor of what you'd bring to them, you're going to be seen as unprofessional and a Problem.]
Don't sit down with taping devices or emails and feather quills for declarations of blame, clarification etc. That is just ego driven bullshit that looks very immature and unprofessional. Instead: get out your programmes/lesson plans and start syncing them up to solve the problem which is that the kids are confused. Sync test dates and revision lessons appropriately. Revise your lesson manner so that when kids express confusion or shit-stir, you can smoothly allay their fears and move on to the purpose of lesson times: Lessons. Drop the KGB theatrics and he said/she said crap and get on with your actual job. Depersonalise the other teacher's comments to her students - they will get no traction if the kids in your class are having their learning and management needs met.
*The ol' 'the other teacher said...' is such an easy shit-stirring mechanism from students. Sometimes though, it is about expressing anxiety that there will be unknown things on a test. This is particularly true in remedial classes where students already suffer a lack of confidence about success, and dread the confirmation of 'failure' that a poorly completed test confers. Or a reflection of their wider dissatisfaction with your ability to help them feel safe encountering that test. Mature, responsible teachers, who care about the profession and their charge to facilitate learning, handle the situation by thinking about what the student needs. You ask the students to clarify what they are saying - 'you sound like you're worried you aren't getting the right information. Is there something you'd like me to go back over?' When a student says they are confused or missing material they think they need, listen to that. Not, Ms X said such n such, and then blah-blah-blah. Try: "Well Ms x and are I are working together on your programme, so even if it doesn't look like we're doing the same thing at the same time, we're both still going to cover all of the important stuff you need to know... let's get started." [Not: "OMG, she said WHAT??"]
posted by honey-barbara at 11:19 PM on January 30, 2012 [23 favorites]
[Oh god, so many missing commas and 'you're' 'your' like it doesn't matter. Serve me right for ranting at the expense of previewing.]
posted by honey-barbara at 11:25 PM on January 30, 2012
posted by honey-barbara at 11:25 PM on January 30, 2012
N is their algebra teacher, which is their main math class, and I am their basic skills teacher, which means they come to me for remediation, with the expectation that ~80-90% of the time we'll be working on the material that she is teaching.
And:
I actually WANT to be able to switch my lesson topic on a dime if someone needs help with it; there's no need for there to be any "HAVE TO" associated with it
As a side note to the actual issue: you are their remedial teacher. These are students who have already been through the class and need it repeated. I can see how it would be quite annoying to have you going off on tangents pertaining to questions they might ask and want answered outside of that. Because-- if they knew the basic skills-- then they would be able to ask those questions in her class, and follow the answers, and everyone would be able to benefit from these tangents. But unless they get these basic skills covered, they're going to be at a disadvantage.
I think those tangents need to be kept to a serious minimum, because you are their support teacher. You have a responsibility to cover the basics. If you can do that and then go on to more, then great. But then, I suspect that those students who can do that probably don't need remedial Maths. And once again, if they do, then they can ask those questions in their mainstream class.
Of course, as others have said, a discussion with the teacher should clear this up. But I don't think that your indignation at having these matters prescribed is appropriate.
posted by jojobobo at 11:58 PM on January 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
And:
I actually WANT to be able to switch my lesson topic on a dime if someone needs help with it; there's no need for there to be any "HAVE TO" associated with it
As a side note to the actual issue: you are their remedial teacher. These are students who have already been through the class and need it repeated. I can see how it would be quite annoying to have you going off on tangents pertaining to questions they might ask and want answered outside of that. Because-- if they knew the basic skills-- then they would be able to ask those questions in her class, and follow the answers, and everyone would be able to benefit from these tangents. But unless they get these basic skills covered, they're going to be at a disadvantage.
I think those tangents need to be kept to a serious minimum, because you are their support teacher. You have a responsibility to cover the basics. If you can do that and then go on to more, then great. But then, I suspect that those students who can do that probably don't need remedial Maths. And once again, if they do, then they can ask those questions in their mainstream class.
Of course, as others have said, a discussion with the teacher should clear this up. But I don't think that your indignation at having these matters prescribed is appropriate.
posted by jojobobo at 11:58 PM on January 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Politely convey to N that "From now on, I am going to disregard any remarks from the students about what you say and trust that if you have any input on what you would like me to cover, you will tell me yourself." And if students say "N said!" you say "Thanks Billy, now let's all turn to page 14."
posted by bunderful at 6:51 AM on January 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 6:51 AM on January 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
I agree with what bunderful says. It is undermining the students' respect for you, for N to be telling the students to tell you what to cover. That is massively disrespectful. It doesn't really matter that it IS your role to be doing exactly what N wants you to do; N has an obligation, as a professional, to follow the appropriate channels in communicating those needs to you. The way N has been doing this is causing discipline problems; and indeed, the business where the student excused herself on the false premise of a bathroom break to run to the other teacher should have resulted in that child getting a visit with the principal for insubordination. That sort of thing should absolutely not be tolerated, and can be used as an example of how your authority is being undermined.
There is clearly a failure of communication between you and N. If you were communicating well, the students wouldn't have to be messengers.
posted by jayder at 11:25 AM on January 31, 2012
There is clearly a failure of communication between you and N. If you were communicating well, the students wouldn't have to be messengers.
posted by jayder at 11:25 AM on January 31, 2012
Okay, N and I talked things out today.
Just to provide additional context that definitely should have been in the original post, here is what it has been like to be in my shoes with this person.
Three years ago, you are a mediocre teacher with weak boundaries but a decent moral center. N shows up at your job and IMMEDIATELY starts complaining about another teacher's constant phone calls to her classroom to pull students out for band. N relishes the passive-aggressive disrespect she shows for this teacher in the way she answers the phone and with what she says to the kids. She does this within earshot of everyone in your lunchroom.
You feel so bad for the other teacher, yet want to give N SOME semblance of the benefit of the doubt, that you enlist the other teachers in the lunchroom clandestinely to talk with N and keep the issue from escalating. You let the other teacher know she is not alone, and that you and the other teachers will handle it. You do.
(To this day, to the best of your knowledge, N does not know you intervened and things with her and the other teacher seem okay.)
One day, N complains about her sister's reptile collection at the house they live in (which is her sister's). She mentions that she always tries to leave the windows open to get them to freeze to death, but her sister always catches it.
This raises a red flag for you, but, again, your boundaries are weak.
N is dating a teacher from the school where she used to work, but left after just one year. They break up. She is suddenly very interested in going on a run with you.
You go for the run. She tells you all about how the kids say she is pretty, and how she flirts with the science teacher, and how the kids tell her she is prettier than the science teacher's girlfriend, who is also a teacher at your school. This sounds weird as hell, but it will not be years until you read The Gift of Fear.
Afterwards, you agree to take her to meet other teachers for drinks and drive her home. On the ride home, she asks you out. You express disinterest, but she persists. It will not be years before you realize how much you have done to put yourself in this position. You agree to go out the following night. Before you drop her off, she jumps on you and starts making out with you. She is unbelievably hot. You stay the night, but don't have sex.
You see a side of her she NEVER reveals at school. She uses the N-word to refer to Obama, and thinks he's a Muslim. She makes lots of jokes about being your superior because she teaches a higher grade than you. You don't find them funny. You're an alternate route teacher? It just so happens her mother thinks those people had no direction in their careers. You like to hike? She thinks that's the gayest thing ever. She thinks the town you live in is shit. She thinks people would never believe the two of you were dating. She says you look like a Jew.
The following night, you meet up, and she suggests a restaurant. There are coworkers there, from her old school, the one that the boyfriend she just broke up with works at.
What a coincidence.
You're freaked out, but hang out one or two more times over the next week. You almost have sex with her, but don't, because you realize this is starting to be a really, really, really bad idea. Either that, or some part of you enjoys the control you get from denying her. The text messages from her are non-stop.
Halloween rolls by, and you cancel on her as described above. You don't like being the destination of a drive through the town you both teach in when there are kids all over the place after she's spent the past 4 hours drinking. You are freaked the fuck out. The next day, she breaks up with you via text. For some reason, you are really pissed off about this.
A couple of years later, you are on somewhat better professional terms and are hanging out outside of work a little, with some other teachers. She shit-talks the other teachers. You defend them. She tells you the next day she is mad at you for defending them. You go for another run. Lots of insults disguised as jokes. You don't talk to her again.
The emails you get from her have a strange tone to them, with obvious instructions capitalized, and this tone is only present in emails that come to you only. The ones to you and other people are a lot more polite, even if they are about the exact same thing. She is CCing your superiors on occasion for reasons that are obscure. Emails to the two of you from people who don't work in the school are responded to by her to the recipient with instructions for you.
She heads the PD committee, and you give a small workshop to 4 math teachers. You tell her you're going to do small math-based activities with the four of you. At the last minute, you get two new additions, people who were not on the original list and who don't do math. They say they were assigned to your workshop. It is a bit of a derail, but you recover well.
You are asked to prepare another workshop at a different PD day. Nobody signs up. You later learn 90% of the math teachers who would have signed up were sent to a mandatory workshop, which N should have foreseen. It turns out the workshops you wanted to attend are full.
You are starting to doubt how much of this is coincidence, paranoia, passive-aggression, or honest mistakes on her part.
There are countless little "Hi, you look sick" type remarks from her.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I spoke with her today, just the two of us. She told me she felt threatened by the way I approached her, and that's why she went to my boss. This is certainly plausible, since I did have a voice recorder with me, and most people in this thread describe my request for this email as over the line.
I told her she should feel comfortable approaching me and that if there's something I'm doing that makes her feel threatened, to let me know, and that I will stop, because it's better for us to work things out as colleagues than to have it escalate to our boss.
She said she was sorry if she came across like she was attacking my teaching, and had a lot of emails where she defended me to people
...
...
...
...but she couldn't find them.
posted by alphanerd at 6:56 PM on January 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just to provide additional context that definitely should have been in the original post, here is what it has been like to be in my shoes with this person.
Three years ago, you are a mediocre teacher with weak boundaries but a decent moral center. N shows up at your job and IMMEDIATELY starts complaining about another teacher's constant phone calls to her classroom to pull students out for band. N relishes the passive-aggressive disrespect she shows for this teacher in the way she answers the phone and with what she says to the kids. She does this within earshot of everyone in your lunchroom.
You feel so bad for the other teacher, yet want to give N SOME semblance of the benefit of the doubt, that you enlist the other teachers in the lunchroom clandestinely to talk with N and keep the issue from escalating. You let the other teacher know she is not alone, and that you and the other teachers will handle it. You do.
(To this day, to the best of your knowledge, N does not know you intervened and things with her and the other teacher seem okay.)
One day, N complains about her sister's reptile collection at the house they live in (which is her sister's). She mentions that she always tries to leave the windows open to get them to freeze to death, but her sister always catches it.
This raises a red flag for you, but, again, your boundaries are weak.
N is dating a teacher from the school where she used to work, but left after just one year. They break up. She is suddenly very interested in going on a run with you.
You go for the run. She tells you all about how the kids say she is pretty, and how she flirts with the science teacher, and how the kids tell her she is prettier than the science teacher's girlfriend, who is also a teacher at your school. This sounds weird as hell, but it will not be years until you read The Gift of Fear.
Afterwards, you agree to take her to meet other teachers for drinks and drive her home. On the ride home, she asks you out. You express disinterest, but she persists. It will not be years before you realize how much you have done to put yourself in this position. You agree to go out the following night. Before you drop her off, she jumps on you and starts making out with you. She is unbelievably hot. You stay the night, but don't have sex.
You see a side of her she NEVER reveals at school. She uses the N-word to refer to Obama, and thinks he's a Muslim. She makes lots of jokes about being your superior because she teaches a higher grade than you. You don't find them funny. You're an alternate route teacher? It just so happens her mother thinks those people had no direction in their careers. You like to hike? She thinks that's the gayest thing ever. She thinks the town you live in is shit. She thinks people would never believe the two of you were dating. She says you look like a Jew.
The following night, you meet up, and she suggests a restaurant. There are coworkers there, from her old school, the one that the boyfriend she just broke up with works at.
What a coincidence.
You're freaked out, but hang out one or two more times over the next week. You almost have sex with her, but don't, because you realize this is starting to be a really, really, really bad idea. Either that, or some part of you enjoys the control you get from denying her. The text messages from her are non-stop.
Halloween rolls by, and you cancel on her as described above. You don't like being the destination of a drive through the town you both teach in when there are kids all over the place after she's spent the past 4 hours drinking. You are freaked the fuck out. The next day, she breaks up with you via text. For some reason, you are really pissed off about this.
A couple of years later, you are on somewhat better professional terms and are hanging out outside of work a little, with some other teachers. She shit-talks the other teachers. You defend them. She tells you the next day she is mad at you for defending them. You go for another run. Lots of insults disguised as jokes. You don't talk to her again.
The emails you get from her have a strange tone to them, with obvious instructions capitalized, and this tone is only present in emails that come to you only. The ones to you and other people are a lot more polite, even if they are about the exact same thing. She is CCing your superiors on occasion for reasons that are obscure. Emails to the two of you from people who don't work in the school are responded to by her to the recipient with instructions for you.
She heads the PD committee, and you give a small workshop to 4 math teachers. You tell her you're going to do small math-based activities with the four of you. At the last minute, you get two new additions, people who were not on the original list and who don't do math. They say they were assigned to your workshop. It is a bit of a derail, but you recover well.
You are asked to prepare another workshop at a different PD day. Nobody signs up. You later learn 90% of the math teachers who would have signed up were sent to a mandatory workshop, which N should have foreseen. It turns out the workshops you wanted to attend are full.
You are starting to doubt how much of this is coincidence, paranoia, passive-aggression, or honest mistakes on her part.
There are countless little "Hi, you look sick" type remarks from her.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I spoke with her today, just the two of us. She told me she felt threatened by the way I approached her, and that's why she went to my boss. This is certainly plausible, since I did have a voice recorder with me, and most people in this thread describe my request for this email as over the line.
I told her she should feel comfortable approaching me and that if there's something I'm doing that makes her feel threatened, to let me know, and that I will stop, because it's better for us to work things out as colleagues than to have it escalate to our boss.
She said she was sorry if she came across like she was attacking my teaching, and had a lot of emails where she defended me to people
...
...
...
...but she couldn't find them.
posted by alphanerd at 6:56 PM on January 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Ok, this is simple. You go to your boss, and you say, Hey. Is my job to be cleanup after N's class, i.e., cover the same lessons in synchrony, or is it a more general "teach what I think the kids need most" thing? Abide by the answer.
You might also mention, though, the midterm episode and that you don't think it's ethical to necessarily "teach the test." (I despise even the appearance that I'm doing that. I'm teaching the learning objectives, not the upcoming test.) Also that you think if you are spending all your time backing up her lessons, that might indicate a problem with either her teaching or the curriculum she's following, yes?
Your policy to the kids is, I don't work for N. If YOU want me to cover something specific, say so and I'll prepare a lesson. Today, I've prepared a different one.
All that personal stuff, forget it. She's a nutcase, but you're going to have a couple everywhere you go so it might as well be here.
posted by ctmf at 7:59 PM on January 31, 2012
You might also mention, though, the midterm episode and that you don't think it's ethical to necessarily "teach the test." (I despise even the appearance that I'm doing that. I'm teaching the learning objectives, not the upcoming test.) Also that you think if you are spending all your time backing up her lessons, that might indicate a problem with either her teaching or the curriculum she's following, yes?
Your policy to the kids is, I don't work for N. If YOU want me to cover something specific, say so and I'll prepare a lesson. Today, I've prepared a different one.
All that personal stuff, forget it. She's a nutcase, but you're going to have a couple everywhere you go so it might as well be here.
posted by ctmf at 7:59 PM on January 31, 2012
Thanks for sticking with this, ctmf.
I like your point about teaching to the test, because it makes me realize that N has basically asked me in the past to "preview" the test, with similar problems, but change the numbers. I admire immensely your sense of what it means to teach ethically.
I don't think it's going to wash with my boss at this point, though, since I think he wants this issue off his desk.
posted by alphanerd at 8:34 PM on January 31, 2012
I like your point about teaching to the test, because it makes me realize that N has basically asked me in the past to "preview" the test, with similar problems, but change the numbers. I admire immensely your sense of what it means to teach ethically.
I don't think it's going to wash with my boss at this point, though, since I think he wants this issue off his desk.
posted by alphanerd at 8:34 PM on January 31, 2012
She doesn't sound like a very nice person, alphanerd, and it sounds like you learned a lot about boundaries in your interaction with her. (Bonus?) But honestly, even the diatribe above demonstrates that you are just as wrapped up in this drama with her as she is with you, if not more. She sounds terrible. Stay away from her as much as possible, and work with your union rep or your principal or someone to identify the exact ways in which you do need to interact with her so you can keep your job and Let. This. Go.
posted by juliplease at 9:12 PM on January 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by juliplease at 9:12 PM on January 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yes, it's surprising that you thought your personal history with her was irrelevant. You clearly have a lot of baggage there and strongly dislike and mistrust her. Which is fine, but... you need to get past it.
You need to act as if everything is fine. Shut up, ignore her, and do your damn job. Stop being bated by her. I don't care if she is a crazy psycho bitch who is out to get you, you will not profit by analyzing her motives and trying to figure out her game. You certainly will not win by trying to pin her down publicly -- she plays this game better than you. The best-case plausible scenario is that you both lose, because you both look bad. Keep yourself above the fray.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:16 PM on January 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
You need to act as if everything is fine. Shut up, ignore her, and do your damn job. Stop being bated by her. I don't care if she is a crazy psycho bitch who is out to get you, you will not profit by analyzing her motives and trying to figure out her game. You certainly will not win by trying to pin her down publicly -- she plays this game better than you. The best-case plausible scenario is that you both lose, because you both look bad. Keep yourself above the fray.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:16 PM on January 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
I can't explain why I didn't lead with the personal history stuff. It may be that this is the first place I've told the story and I've been used to compartmentalizing the professional stuff we do from the personal stuff. I don't know.
The problem is, though, that I've tried to ignore her, tried to act like everything is fine, and there are still things that look like they're part of a covert-aggressive pattern of behavior dropping into my life and having real consequences for me professionally and emotionally.
If people reading this are on-board with idea that she is messing with me at this point, ignoring it is only going to make things worse.
posted by alphanerd at 4:42 AM on February 1, 2012
The problem is, though, that I've tried to ignore her, tried to act like everything is fine, and there are still things that look like they're part of a covert-aggressive pattern of behavior dropping into my life and having real consequences for me professionally and emotionally.
If people reading this are on-board with idea that she is messing with me at this point, ignoring it is only going to make things worse.
posted by alphanerd at 4:42 AM on February 1, 2012
If people reading this are on-board with idea that she is messing with me at this point, ignoring it is only going to make things worse.
This is just not logical. You've been engaging with it this long and where has it brought you? To the point where you're making secret voice recordings of people, that's where. You need to keep your own side of the street clean. You don't have to like it, you don't have to pretend to yourself that you don't know what's happening, but for the sake of your students you need to just suck it up and do the job.
Look, I've been a teacher; I've had colleagues that were about that nutty. I know how it feels to be paranoid and know that they are indeed out to get you, as the saying goes. I've met up with some of those people years later, and they were still babbling about the same interpersonal shit. That is no way to live.
posted by BibiRose at 12:04 PM on February 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is just not logical. You've been engaging with it this long and where has it brought you? To the point where you're making secret voice recordings of people, that's where. You need to keep your own side of the street clean. You don't have to like it, you don't have to pretend to yourself that you don't know what's happening, but for the sake of your students you need to just suck it up and do the job.
Look, I've been a teacher; I've had colleagues that were about that nutty. I know how it feels to be paranoid and know that they are indeed out to get you, as the saying goes. I've met up with some of those people years later, and they were still babbling about the same interpersonal shit. That is no way to live.
posted by BibiRose at 12:04 PM on February 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
N shows up at your job and IMMEDIATELY starts complaining about another teacher's constant phone calls to her classroom to pull students out for band. N relishes the passive-aggressive disrespect she shows for this teacher in the way she answers the phone and with what she says to the kids [....] you enlist the other teachers in the lunchroom clandestinely to talk with N and keep the issue from escalating.
This sounds, in addition to all the other problems, like a seriously dysfunctional workplace filled with busybodies and drama.
I don't think it's going to wash with my boss at this point, though, since I think he wants this issue off his desk.
I bet!
The only solution to this is to get your head straight about professional versus personal concerns and it sounds like your professional concern is straight up what you're supposed to be teaching and how to respond if it a kid tries to pit you two against each other.
And that is it. Everything else is stuff you can put in a big bucket labeled 'irrelevant' and you can spend your new free time finding something else to think about.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2012
This sounds, in addition to all the other problems, like a seriously dysfunctional workplace filled with busybodies and drama.
I don't think it's going to wash with my boss at this point, though, since I think he wants this issue off his desk.
I bet!
The only solution to this is to get your head straight about professional versus personal concerns and it sounds like your professional concern is straight up what you're supposed to be teaching and how to respond if it a kid tries to pit you two against each other.
And that is it. Everything else is stuff you can put in a big bucket labeled 'irrelevant' and you can spend your new free time finding something else to think about.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2012
Also, unless you're a spy or throwing a surprise party, nothing you ever do "clandestinely" is likely a good idea unless it's peeing outdoors or something.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:48 PM on February 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:48 PM on February 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
First, please leave this toxic school when your contract is up. It sounds awful. It would not be worth ANY security or salary to stay working under those conditions. A school that supports and puts in leadership someone like N isn't one I'd stay at.
I agree that she sounds crazy. But you ARE engaging with her. STOP. Get an agreement in writing for what your course is expected to cover and how closely you have to work with her. And especially stop using the kids to communicate. The only thing my kids hear about other teachers from me is positive and supportive comments.
Just for anecdata I am also a remediation teacher and my class has students in five colleagues' classes. We have a course outline that we all share and we do some pre/review, but it focuses on building their basic skills so they can succeed in regular English. And if they need work time, either the kids say "I need work time today" and I adjust our agenda, or a teacher emails or calls in advance and says "do you have time to work on x with x student tomorrow?" and I say yes or no. That's how a functional school community does it. I hope you find a place to work that is more like mine than yours. Good luck.
Tl;dr - drama is for the kids. Stop engaging the crazy. Get an admin to help you delineate how you map your courses and how much you adjust your daily schedule based on her requests. If all else fails, be polite but firm in your refusal to change your schedule on her whims.
posted by guster4lovers at 7:49 PM on February 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
I agree that she sounds crazy. But you ARE engaging with her. STOP. Get an agreement in writing for what your course is expected to cover and how closely you have to work with her. And especially stop using the kids to communicate. The only thing my kids hear about other teachers from me is positive and supportive comments.
Just for anecdata I am also a remediation teacher and my class has students in five colleagues' classes. We have a course outline that we all share and we do some pre/review, but it focuses on building their basic skills so they can succeed in regular English. And if they need work time, either the kids say "I need work time today" and I adjust our agenda, or a teacher emails or calls in advance and says "do you have time to work on x with x student tomorrow?" and I say yes or no. That's how a functional school community does it. I hope you find a place to work that is more like mine than yours. Good luck.
Tl;dr - drama is for the kids. Stop engaging the crazy. Get an admin to help you delineate how you map your courses and how much you adjust your daily schedule based on her requests. If all else fails, be polite but firm in your refusal to change your schedule on her whims.
posted by guster4lovers at 7:49 PM on February 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just checked my recent activity and can't leave get this out of my mind. Okay, N sounds strange and unpleasant. You also sound strange - you are disgusted by and yet attracted to this person enough to spend three years in a strange little dance. Okay - I've had some strange dances in my life too. Shit happens.
What's absolutely strange to me is that you have read comment after comment about how school is about the kids, what they need, how you can implement strategies to re-focus away from this dysfunctional dance, how to rise above your interpersonal relationship and be a better, adult, professional teacher. And yet you have chosen to write an update all about your relationship with this woman and your feeling of being an almost helpless bystander to a crazy person's antics. You haven't mentioned students unless it's as some part of the supply chain in your interpersonal dysfunction. It seems the updates you give show no relation to the material provided for your consideration from responders here.
Maybe you do need mediation - not to get bits of paper/emails signed or to win this current situation about who said what, when etc, but counseling. Have you got a Dean of Staff you can talk to? Tell her/him that you had a few dates with your co-worker a few years ago, and it seems since that time that there is some bad feeling that might be interfering with getting things right for the students. DON'T bitch about her, don't bring lists of aggravations, don't badmouth her etc. Ask how you can make sure to avoid escalation when pedagogical matters have to be negotiated; ask how to cope with/avoid students being drawn into a conflict; ask for advice on whether mediation is required.
FWIW, this kind of thing has happened in every school I have ever taught - people date, shit happens, other crap follows. Your Head/Dean of Staff will hopefully have experience. In my last school, there were professional counseling services offered for these kinds of situations - they were absolutely confidential ie the school could not read the notes or know of the reason for the visit/s.
And, an insight that I've gained from years of observation: Teachers are sometimes psychologically hampered by the fact they have limited life experience outside of a school setting. Many have gone from high school to college to high school with a few vacations in between, or minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. This can keep some teachers in a state of selfish regard, or at an undifferentiated position in adulthood. [Obviously, this is not just limited to teachers] I'm sorry to say that this is what it looks like when you respond to our advice here with me,me,me/her,her,her rather than about the students affected by this dynamic. Good teachers think about what is best for the students not about how to point score against other teachers - although, I do see this shit acted out time after time.
posted by honey-barbara at 11:47 PM on February 1, 2012 [6 favorites]
What's absolutely strange to me is that you have read comment after comment about how school is about the kids, what they need, how you can implement strategies to re-focus away from this dysfunctional dance, how to rise above your interpersonal relationship and be a better, adult, professional teacher. And yet you have chosen to write an update all about your relationship with this woman and your feeling of being an almost helpless bystander to a crazy person's antics. You haven't mentioned students unless it's as some part of the supply chain in your interpersonal dysfunction. It seems the updates you give show no relation to the material provided for your consideration from responders here.
Maybe you do need mediation - not to get bits of paper/emails signed or to win this current situation about who said what, when etc, but counseling. Have you got a Dean of Staff you can talk to? Tell her/him that you had a few dates with your co-worker a few years ago, and it seems since that time that there is some bad feeling that might be interfering with getting things right for the students. DON'T bitch about her, don't bring lists of aggravations, don't badmouth her etc. Ask how you can make sure to avoid escalation when pedagogical matters have to be negotiated; ask how to cope with/avoid students being drawn into a conflict; ask for advice on whether mediation is required.
FWIW, this kind of thing has happened in every school I have ever taught - people date, shit happens, other crap follows. Your Head/Dean of Staff will hopefully have experience. In my last school, there were professional counseling services offered for these kinds of situations - they were absolutely confidential ie the school could not read the notes or know of the reason for the visit/s.
And, an insight that I've gained from years of observation: Teachers are sometimes psychologically hampered by the fact they have limited life experience outside of a school setting. Many have gone from high school to college to high school with a few vacations in between, or minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. This can keep some teachers in a state of selfish regard, or at an undifferentiated position in adulthood. [Obviously, this is not just limited to teachers] I'm sorry to say that this is what it looks like when you respond to our advice here with me,me,me/her,her,her rather than about the students affected by this dynamic. Good teachers think about what is best for the students not about how to point score against other teachers - although, I do see this shit acted out time after time.
posted by honey-barbara at 11:47 PM on February 1, 2012 [6 favorites]
Can you get a new teaching job somewhere else? Because this whole situation you're describing, with the follow-ups and everything, sounds crazy, bizarre, dysfunctional, unprofessional, and not beneficial for you, the students, or colleagues.
Get a new teaching job, be friendly and professional, don't have sexual relationships with your colleagues.
Because if you don't, I have a gut feeling that you're going to end up as crazy as the rest of them. You're actually sounding way over-invested in the drama part in that you chose to engage in it. And I sense that you like some of the drama to some extent, because you're weirdly over-involved in all of it in a way that suggests that there's some appeal to it for you.
posted by anniecat at 10:28 AM on February 2, 2012
Get a new teaching job, be friendly and professional, don't have sexual relationships with your colleagues.
Because if you don't, I have a gut feeling that you're going to end up as crazy as the rest of them. You're actually sounding way over-invested in the drama part in that you chose to engage in it. And I sense that you like some of the drama to some extent, because you're weirdly over-involved in all of it in a way that suggests that there's some appeal to it for you.
posted by anniecat at 10:28 AM on February 2, 2012
Here is some background on what was going on with the students, other stuff about me and teaching, and what happened today.
Lesson of the day with N: How to get to the library.
Students arrive at the post office.
Me: "This is the post office."
Students: "N says it's the library."
Me: "Here is an explanation as to why it's the post office."
Students: "We must have gotten it wrong because of how you asked the question."
Me: "It's actually this left turn here that's confusing you, let's talk about the left turn and how we can negotiate it correctly."
Students: "You're doing something different from what N is doing. We understand it her way, and she says you have to teach it that way."
Me: "This sucks."
My boss is not receptive to the "such bad food and such small portions, too"-style contradiction inherent N's proposing that I cover said material and the kids understanding it her way.
FWIW, I am now a much better teacher than I was when all of this started 3 years ago. I create the groundwork for an emotional connection with my students by using the affective domain, and spontaneity and vulnerability are a huge part of my presence in front of a classroom. I get them comfortable taking risks, and get them to talk about their thinking. I find ways to shake the things they are confused about out, and develop techniques for them to overcome them. I got a sparkling observation back from my department head yesterday. I find kids who have trouble with impulse control and tell them I'll give them a finger puppet if they're the last one done with their tests and fill a page with work, and follow up with their teachers.
I eat lunch by myself rather than in a lunchroom where people complain about kids or other teachers. I never talk shit about kids.
Never.
I talk to my colleagues about the stuff they need from me, and mentor other teachers.
This dysfunctional dance people have been making reference to has definitely been there, but people who have been pointing it out have always been operating with the boundaries to keep themselves out of it; I developed mine mostly in the past year or so. It's nice to have an administration that has your back in this situation, but I don't think that was ever going to happen. It's nice to have people who are amenable to normal communication, but that's not N's style. She's so averse to criticism that she thinks lying to avoid it is justified, and she's averse to giving it to me in situations where it would help me immensely.
I read Crucial Confrontations, Crucial Conversations, The Gift of Fear, Games People Play, the Art of War, articles about the fundamental attribution error and the dunning-kruger effect, all with a mind toward strengthening my relationships with other people and setting better boundaries, all within the past 18 months. I test my intuition by posting on Ask Me. Some of my interpersonal advice here has been well-taken, a lot of the stuff I've written about teaching has been.
_________________________________________________________________________
As an epilogue, N wound up approaching me for the conversation on Monday after she got wind that I was requesting copies of archived emails going back to the beginning of last year. This drove her to tears and she had to get someone to cover a class for her, and cancel an after school meeting with an administrator.
We met with my boss today, and N asked me to do all the talking. She wouldn't even look at me during the meeting. I told him that we had a VERY productive conversation and that the problems WERE OVER and that we had gone over ways to COMMUNICATE BETTER and BETTER ADDRESS STUDENT NEEDS, and BRING INTERPERSONAL PROBLEMS TO HIM ONLY AS A LAST RESORT, because these were the things he wanted to hear, and they are going to become true because I now have a much better perspective both on myself and N.
N was rude and passive-aggressive. I smiled politely and told her not to be afraid, and that things were going to be okay. My boss gave me criticism in N's presence, and I handled it like a grown-up.
My lesson with her kids went incredibly well, to the point where even they noticed, but they attribute my improvement to the haircut I got a few weeks back.
The girl who ran into N's classroom looking for the test that touched this whole thing off, it turns out, has a brother in a younger grade. I told her I would try to get her into his classroom as a "TA" for a lesson or two. She was very responsive and offered to help me with my photocopies.
SO MUCH OF THIS was me being afraid and projecting my own bullshit onto someone else who was fearful and projecting her own bullshit onto me. I can see that now, I couldn't see it before.
I think it is going to be okay.
posted by alphanerd at 2:01 PM on February 3, 2012
Lesson of the day with N: How to get to the library.
Students arrive at the post office.
Me: "This is the post office."
Students: "N says it's the library."
Me: "Here is an explanation as to why it's the post office."
Students: "We must have gotten it wrong because of how you asked the question."
Me: "It's actually this left turn here that's confusing you, let's talk about the left turn and how we can negotiate it correctly."
Students: "You're doing something different from what N is doing. We understand it her way, and she says you have to teach it that way."
Me: "This sucks."
My boss is not receptive to the "such bad food and such small portions, too"-style contradiction inherent N's proposing that I cover said material and the kids understanding it her way.
FWIW, I am now a much better teacher than I was when all of this started 3 years ago. I create the groundwork for an emotional connection with my students by using the affective domain, and spontaneity and vulnerability are a huge part of my presence in front of a classroom. I get them comfortable taking risks, and get them to talk about their thinking. I find ways to shake the things they are confused about out, and develop techniques for them to overcome them. I got a sparkling observation back from my department head yesterday. I find kids who have trouble with impulse control and tell them I'll give them a finger puppet if they're the last one done with their tests and fill a page with work, and follow up with their teachers.
I eat lunch by myself rather than in a lunchroom where people complain about kids or other teachers. I never talk shit about kids.
Never.
I talk to my colleagues about the stuff they need from me, and mentor other teachers.
This dysfunctional dance people have been making reference to has definitely been there, but people who have been pointing it out have always been operating with the boundaries to keep themselves out of it; I developed mine mostly in the past year or so. It's nice to have an administration that has your back in this situation, but I don't think that was ever going to happen. It's nice to have people who are amenable to normal communication, but that's not N's style. She's so averse to criticism that she thinks lying to avoid it is justified, and she's averse to giving it to me in situations where it would help me immensely.
I read Crucial Confrontations, Crucial Conversations, The Gift of Fear, Games People Play, the Art of War, articles about the fundamental attribution error and the dunning-kruger effect, all with a mind toward strengthening my relationships with other people and setting better boundaries, all within the past 18 months. I test my intuition by posting on Ask Me. Some of my interpersonal advice here has been well-taken, a lot of the stuff I've written about teaching has been.
_________________________________________________________________________
As an epilogue, N wound up approaching me for the conversation on Monday after she got wind that I was requesting copies of archived emails going back to the beginning of last year. This drove her to tears and she had to get someone to cover a class for her, and cancel an after school meeting with an administrator.
We met with my boss today, and N asked me to do all the talking. She wouldn't even look at me during the meeting. I told him that we had a VERY productive conversation and that the problems WERE OVER and that we had gone over ways to COMMUNICATE BETTER and BETTER ADDRESS STUDENT NEEDS, and BRING INTERPERSONAL PROBLEMS TO HIM ONLY AS A LAST RESORT, because these were the things he wanted to hear, and they are going to become true because I now have a much better perspective both on myself and N.
N was rude and passive-aggressive. I smiled politely and told her not to be afraid, and that things were going to be okay. My boss gave me criticism in N's presence, and I handled it like a grown-up.
My lesson with her kids went incredibly well, to the point where even they noticed, but they attribute my improvement to the haircut I got a few weeks back.
The girl who ran into N's classroom looking for the test that touched this whole thing off, it turns out, has a brother in a younger grade. I told her I would try to get her into his classroom as a "TA" for a lesson or two. She was very responsive and offered to help me with my photocopies.
SO MUCH OF THIS was me being afraid and projecting my own bullshit onto someone else who was fearful and projecting her own bullshit onto me. I can see that now, I couldn't see it before.
I think it is going to be okay.
posted by alphanerd at 2:01 PM on February 3, 2012
she got wind that I was requesting copies of archived emails going back to the beginning of last year.
I can't imagine how this could be anything other than career suicide.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:05 PM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can't imagine how this could be anything other than career suicide.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:05 PM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was asking for copies of email correspondence between myself and her, not things involving anyone else, and I CC'd her on the request. I only have access to email going back 1 year and there was documentation in there about similar incidents that occurred last year, including one where I specifically asked her to put things in writing and not to use students as intermediaries.
posted by alphanerd at 2:32 PM on February 3, 2012
posted by alphanerd at 2:32 PM on February 3, 2012
I figured I'd post an update on what happened here.
This question was kind of a trainwreck, since I didn't provide a lot of key context in the formulation of the question about the history between myself and N, about the general culture of my workplace, about the things that had unfolded before I got to the point where I asked this question. Things like the fact that I'd looked into the legality of what I was doing with the voice recorder and found it to be legit, the fact that this pattern had been observed before with N in previous years and I'd asked her not to use kids as intermediaries for info, and to talk to me beforehand if there was something specific she wanted me to cover, and the fact that I'd had several conversations with a union rep about what was going on, and that he didn't raise any concerns over my approach and basically viewed me as having nothing to lose by actually having a meeting with N and my boss to spell out what was going on.
Also, I went into this thread pretty wound up, which is ill-advised. But I'd basically just gotten to a point with things where what N was doing was starting to impact my ability to do my job, and I caught her with her hand in the cookie jar and had to seriously commit to grabbing her by the wrist, so to speak.
Other info: I work with 16 teachers in the same capacity as N, and I've never once had students making similar allegations about stuff being said behind my back. I'd imagine that if something similar happened with one of the others, they'd take a stand with me to send a strong message to the kids that it was not okay, so the fact that N was dodgy about this was a huge tip off that something was up. I had one of the kids who was at issue here last year, and she never said anything about that math teacher, and I had other students of N's last year who made similar allegations about her. There's also the fact that, after making the choice to escalate the situation to my boss, she got freaked out over the possibility of having her email correspondence reviewed to the point where she broke down, and then was willing to sit down with me one on one to resolve this, which was the exact thing I'd requested we do before she went over my head. There was also a Facebook comment that surfaced in which a kid alleged that N had made a disparaging remark to him about me. And there's the fact that a kid told me that N said I had to cover certain material, I demurred, and the kid left my room under false pretenses, conferred with N, and N then placed a call to me asking me to cover that exact material while making no mention of the fact that a student who was supposed to be with me approached her about it. And there's also the fact that no further incidents occurred after I confronted N about all of this.
So, all in all, I'm positive that my appraisal of what was happening was accurate, despite the fact that kids like to shit-stir by pitting teachers against each other. That's not what was going on here at all.
As for the voice recorder issue, I'm not happy about it, but when you get the sense that you're being gaslighted, I don't see there being a whole lot of other options. Maybe there are. But when someone is attempting to revise what they told you, you really have to nail down what is being said if you want to make any headway. I found it to be incredibly useful because it confirmed that I was being gaslighted, and knowing that was going on, and that I'd have recourse if she made any outlandish accusations about the conversation gave me a ton of confidence to continue pressing and pressing. A voice recording is something that's admissible in court; it's not like I was slashing tires or doing something illegal, so the accusations I got about it in this thread by people without knowledge of the legal context were way off.
My final evaluation was written by my boss, and it was probably the most positive one I've received. He made no mention of this episode, and noted I'd received votes for teacher of the year and seemed to have found my area of expertise in this position.
In the context of workplace bullying, relational aggression, and what have you, I think I did a pretty damn good job of handling this. I wound up planning several moves ahead, using an approach that gave N the benefit of the doubt simultaneously with a covert one that would give me more evidence for my case if she turned out not to deserve it, throwing something at her that she didn't know how to handle, and consolidated my gains by blocking off the further use of the tactics that popped up here, and by making some very visible, positive contributions to the broader culture of my workplace in the immediate aftermath. The problems fucking stopped, and they wouldn't have stopped without her having that freak-out.
In the context of AskMe, I've since developed the mindset that a lot of antipathy towards a poster by responders is more likely to indicate a failure on the OP's part to include relevant information in the question than a lack of awareness about the situation on their end. I also think responders sometimes fail to take into account that the very fact that someone has the thought to ask a bunch of people for insight into a situation indicates a level of awareness and conscientiousness on their part that should get them more benefit of the doubt when assumptions have to be made about information gaps. I've had good feedback from OPs in other threads where attention to these things have guided my responses, sometimes when I've been advocating a completely different take on things from everyone else in the thread.
posted by alphanerd at 9:26 PM on June 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
This question was kind of a trainwreck, since I didn't provide a lot of key context in the formulation of the question about the history between myself and N, about the general culture of my workplace, about the things that had unfolded before I got to the point where I asked this question. Things like the fact that I'd looked into the legality of what I was doing with the voice recorder and found it to be legit, the fact that this pattern had been observed before with N in previous years and I'd asked her not to use kids as intermediaries for info, and to talk to me beforehand if there was something specific she wanted me to cover, and the fact that I'd had several conversations with a union rep about what was going on, and that he didn't raise any concerns over my approach and basically viewed me as having nothing to lose by actually having a meeting with N and my boss to spell out what was going on.
Also, I went into this thread pretty wound up, which is ill-advised. But I'd basically just gotten to a point with things where what N was doing was starting to impact my ability to do my job, and I caught her with her hand in the cookie jar and had to seriously commit to grabbing her by the wrist, so to speak.
Other info: I work with 16 teachers in the same capacity as N, and I've never once had students making similar allegations about stuff being said behind my back. I'd imagine that if something similar happened with one of the others, they'd take a stand with me to send a strong message to the kids that it was not okay, so the fact that N was dodgy about this was a huge tip off that something was up. I had one of the kids who was at issue here last year, and she never said anything about that math teacher, and I had other students of N's last year who made similar allegations about her. There's also the fact that, after making the choice to escalate the situation to my boss, she got freaked out over the possibility of having her email correspondence reviewed to the point where she broke down, and then was willing to sit down with me one on one to resolve this, which was the exact thing I'd requested we do before she went over my head. There was also a Facebook comment that surfaced in which a kid alleged that N had made a disparaging remark to him about me. And there's the fact that a kid told me that N said I had to cover certain material, I demurred, and the kid left my room under false pretenses, conferred with N, and N then placed a call to me asking me to cover that exact material while making no mention of the fact that a student who was supposed to be with me approached her about it. And there's also the fact that no further incidents occurred after I confronted N about all of this.
So, all in all, I'm positive that my appraisal of what was happening was accurate, despite the fact that kids like to shit-stir by pitting teachers against each other. That's not what was going on here at all.
As for the voice recorder issue, I'm not happy about it, but when you get the sense that you're being gaslighted, I don't see there being a whole lot of other options. Maybe there are. But when someone is attempting to revise what they told you, you really have to nail down what is being said if you want to make any headway. I found it to be incredibly useful because it confirmed that I was being gaslighted, and knowing that was going on, and that I'd have recourse if she made any outlandish accusations about the conversation gave me a ton of confidence to continue pressing and pressing. A voice recording is something that's admissible in court; it's not like I was slashing tires or doing something illegal, so the accusations I got about it in this thread by people without knowledge of the legal context were way off.
My final evaluation was written by my boss, and it was probably the most positive one I've received. He made no mention of this episode, and noted I'd received votes for teacher of the year and seemed to have found my area of expertise in this position.
In the context of workplace bullying, relational aggression, and what have you, I think I did a pretty damn good job of handling this. I wound up planning several moves ahead, using an approach that gave N the benefit of the doubt simultaneously with a covert one that would give me more evidence for my case if she turned out not to deserve it, throwing something at her that she didn't know how to handle, and consolidated my gains by blocking off the further use of the tactics that popped up here, and by making some very visible, positive contributions to the broader culture of my workplace in the immediate aftermath. The problems fucking stopped, and they wouldn't have stopped without her having that freak-out.
In the context of AskMe, I've since developed the mindset that a lot of antipathy towards a poster by responders is more likely to indicate a failure on the OP's part to include relevant information in the question than a lack of awareness about the situation on their end. I also think responders sometimes fail to take into account that the very fact that someone has the thought to ask a bunch of people for insight into a situation indicates a level of awareness and conscientiousness on their part that should get them more benefit of the doubt when assumptions have to be made about information gaps. I've had good feedback from OPs in other threads where attention to these things have guided my responses, sometimes when I've been advocating a completely different take on things from everyone else in the thread.
posted by alphanerd at 9:26 PM on June 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by brainmouse at 7:12 PM on January 30, 2012