Pre-marriage jitters, mental issues, or genuine concerns?
December 21, 2011 7:28 AM
My boyfriend and I have been together 6 years. He's 30, I'm 27. Things have been good, but I'm seeing obstacles and not able to decide whether to get married. Can they be surmounted?
It's the first serious relationship for both of us. Our parents were against us dating from the start, since we come from an arranged-marriage culture, and are from different socioeconomic backgrounds. It's only recently that they have reconciled somewhat, but for me, it's been a long, tiring road of arguing with them.
I have anxiety/depression issues, although I've never been diagnosed. (I went to therapy a few times, but found it unhelpful.) I tend to ride a wave imagining worst-case scenarios and attributing motives to people when things go slightly wrong. I put up a front in general, but I let loose with my mother and my boyfriend (the two people I'm very close to), making it seem like the problem is their fault when it isn't, or picking on a minor transgression on their part and blowing it out of proportion. So he's been the target of flare-ups and tantrums, especially since I've had to deal with frustrations in a PhD program the past few years. He's amazingly patient, although he does get upset at that moment. When I come down from that wave, I'm remorseful, and he seems to forgive me, but I feel awful. Outside of these attacks, I think I am a supportive, caring partner, just as he is. I was pretty bad at the beginning of our relationship (an incident every month or two, owing to immaturity and school stress), but I've been keeping myself in check the last 2 years, except for one horrible time recently --
Our parents met each other for the first time 10 days ago. In our culture, this is as close to a proposal as you get. It was a casual meeting over coffee, with no explicit talk of marriage (although we've discussed marriage between us), but I lost it right after and called him and broke up with him. That was a nasty, foolish thing to do, and the reason I gave was false and incredibly petty, but it was at the heat of the moment, spurred by my uncertainty about marriage and my stupid temper. We're talking again, a little, although he is justifiably hurt and cautious.
Since then, I've thought about what's underlying my uncertainty:
(1) The difference in our backgrounds really hit when I saw our parents together. The 2-3 times I met his parents, we got along ok (not great, just polite), but I'm concerned about long-term interactions with them. It's not uncommon in our culture for parents to stay with their children when they get old or unwell, and while I want to respect that, I don't know if I'd be comfortable with his parents living with us eventually. We're from such different worlds, and they're a lot more conservative than my family, so I'm scared I'll lose my personal freedom and space.
My boyfriend and I are on roughly equal wavelengths, since we have similar careers, and our views on the world and our future (politics, religion, ethics, finances, lifestyle, having kids, etc) are similar. But people resemble their upbringing more as they age, and I'm worried we'll begin to diverge.
(2) We've been long-distance (2hr flight) more than 5 years, so we don't know each other as well as couples who live in the same city for that length of time. We get to meet once every month, if that. Will we not like each other as much if we're short-distance? Since we've both been living independently of parents or SOs since we were 18, would it be hard to adjust to living together?
Also, he's a bit untidy, and I'm not, and I don't want to spend my life nagging or cleaning up after him. He does his best to keep things clean when we visit, but it's just not a priority in his life. Since he's more successful careerwise than me, and insanely busy with work, I'm concerned I'll be relegated to housewifely duties by default at the expense of concentrating on my career. We may make enough money that we can hire some help if need be, but not everything can be outsourced.
(3) It doesn't look like our long-distance situation is going to get resolved in the near future unless one of us makes a career sacrifice. It may if we're lucky, but nothing is certain. (Academic two-body problems and all.)
(4) We don't share many hobbies. I respect his interests and he mine, but it would be nice to be with someone who really shares my enthusiasm about stuff I like to do outside work. Minor point, I know.
(5) I constantly feel guilt about those times when I hurt him. I feel that a marriage should start off innocent, without a history of intense, useless fights. And I am scared of my own capacity to handle any marriage and raise children, what with my anxiety and temper. Perhaps breaking up would be a wake-up call for me to take charge of my issues, and everyone will be happier.
(6) I'm uncertain about my career plans -- I don't even know if I should stay in the same field, or switch to something else entirely. Getting married may make it harder to switch careers if I'm unhappy.
(7) I worry sometimes that his emotional investment in the relationship is less than mine. For example, some time ago, well before our fight, we had discussed who and when he would marry if it wasn't me. He said he's fine at this point with an arranged marriage to someone he doesn't know too well... his only concern is finding someone at all, since many of our friends who took the arranged route had to search for years. He had even said that he would like to know where I stood soon so that he could fall back on the alternative before getting too old. Even as a joke, I cannot imagine being with anyone else at this point. The thought is repulsive. I know I'll move on, etc., but my mind is not there as yet. And the fact that he's thinking so pragmatically about alternatives makes me insecure.
I didn't mean to explain these reasons to him now, at least not as tactlessly written as they are, but a couple of days back, he started pressuring me again about my indecision, and I just sent him this list (1-5, not 6 and 7, because I don't want to get into it and start fighting), hoping he would see where I am coming from. He got defensive on (1), as expected -- I told him I have nothing against his parents or them living close by, just not in the same house. I'm not sure he's convinced. We didn't talk about the rest of it. He's just been very emotionally distant in general; it's something I've never really seen before, and while I understand why, I'm scared. (We're not in the same place, and it's also really hard to figure out what he feels over phone or e-mail.)
He's not likely to wait more than 6-9 months for a decision/engagement, if I can stretch it that long. His parents have been getting antsy to see him married and settled down -- they're the ones who insisted on the meeting -- and he's getting nervous about time running out too. My parents are more cautious and want me to take my time. I've tried discussing all this with them, but they're not fully objective, and it's not very helpful.
Overall, I'm going through a lot of pain, regret, confusion, and guilt now. I'm also over-the-top stressed with work, since I'm trying to finish my PhD by June and I'm unable to concentrate on research or job applications, and that's getting me down as well. (It doesn't help that he's been my main source of emotional support with academic worries, and even work sometimes reminds me of him.)
We're both introverted and don't have many close friends and live in a different continent from our families, and are each other's best friends. And we genuinely love and care for each other. I do see myself marrying and having a family with him. My question is not whether we should break up or get married or neither. (Obviously, random strangers can't answer that, and I have a feeling that he might gradually break up with me anyway now, slowly and painfully. Boy, wouldn't that be karmic retribution?) Rather, assuming he's willing to discuss it at some point how do I try to resolve these issues? Can they be resolved?
It's the first serious relationship for both of us. Our parents were against us dating from the start, since we come from an arranged-marriage culture, and are from different socioeconomic backgrounds. It's only recently that they have reconciled somewhat, but for me, it's been a long, tiring road of arguing with them.
I have anxiety/depression issues, although I've never been diagnosed. (I went to therapy a few times, but found it unhelpful.) I tend to ride a wave imagining worst-case scenarios and attributing motives to people when things go slightly wrong. I put up a front in general, but I let loose with my mother and my boyfriend (the two people I'm very close to), making it seem like the problem is their fault when it isn't, or picking on a minor transgression on their part and blowing it out of proportion. So he's been the target of flare-ups and tantrums, especially since I've had to deal with frustrations in a PhD program the past few years. He's amazingly patient, although he does get upset at that moment. When I come down from that wave, I'm remorseful, and he seems to forgive me, but I feel awful. Outside of these attacks, I think I am a supportive, caring partner, just as he is. I was pretty bad at the beginning of our relationship (an incident every month or two, owing to immaturity and school stress), but I've been keeping myself in check the last 2 years, except for one horrible time recently --
Our parents met each other for the first time 10 days ago. In our culture, this is as close to a proposal as you get. It was a casual meeting over coffee, with no explicit talk of marriage (although we've discussed marriage between us), but I lost it right after and called him and broke up with him. That was a nasty, foolish thing to do, and the reason I gave was false and incredibly petty, but it was at the heat of the moment, spurred by my uncertainty about marriage and my stupid temper. We're talking again, a little, although he is justifiably hurt and cautious.
Since then, I've thought about what's underlying my uncertainty:
(1) The difference in our backgrounds really hit when I saw our parents together. The 2-3 times I met his parents, we got along ok (not great, just polite), but I'm concerned about long-term interactions with them. It's not uncommon in our culture for parents to stay with their children when they get old or unwell, and while I want to respect that, I don't know if I'd be comfortable with his parents living with us eventually. We're from such different worlds, and they're a lot more conservative than my family, so I'm scared I'll lose my personal freedom and space.
My boyfriend and I are on roughly equal wavelengths, since we have similar careers, and our views on the world and our future (politics, religion, ethics, finances, lifestyle, having kids, etc) are similar. But people resemble their upbringing more as they age, and I'm worried we'll begin to diverge.
(2) We've been long-distance (2hr flight) more than 5 years, so we don't know each other as well as couples who live in the same city for that length of time. We get to meet once every month, if that. Will we not like each other as much if we're short-distance? Since we've both been living independently of parents or SOs since we were 18, would it be hard to adjust to living together?
Also, he's a bit untidy, and I'm not, and I don't want to spend my life nagging or cleaning up after him. He does his best to keep things clean when we visit, but it's just not a priority in his life. Since he's more successful careerwise than me, and insanely busy with work, I'm concerned I'll be relegated to housewifely duties by default at the expense of concentrating on my career. We may make enough money that we can hire some help if need be, but not everything can be outsourced.
(3) It doesn't look like our long-distance situation is going to get resolved in the near future unless one of us makes a career sacrifice. It may if we're lucky, but nothing is certain. (Academic two-body problems and all.)
(4) We don't share many hobbies. I respect his interests and he mine, but it would be nice to be with someone who really shares my enthusiasm about stuff I like to do outside work. Minor point, I know.
(5) I constantly feel guilt about those times when I hurt him. I feel that a marriage should start off innocent, without a history of intense, useless fights. And I am scared of my own capacity to handle any marriage and raise children, what with my anxiety and temper. Perhaps breaking up would be a wake-up call for me to take charge of my issues, and everyone will be happier.
(6) I'm uncertain about my career plans -- I don't even know if I should stay in the same field, or switch to something else entirely. Getting married may make it harder to switch careers if I'm unhappy.
(7) I worry sometimes that his emotional investment in the relationship is less than mine. For example, some time ago, well before our fight, we had discussed who and when he would marry if it wasn't me. He said he's fine at this point with an arranged marriage to someone he doesn't know too well... his only concern is finding someone at all, since many of our friends who took the arranged route had to search for years. He had even said that he would like to know where I stood soon so that he could fall back on the alternative before getting too old. Even as a joke, I cannot imagine being with anyone else at this point. The thought is repulsive. I know I'll move on, etc., but my mind is not there as yet. And the fact that he's thinking so pragmatically about alternatives makes me insecure.
I didn't mean to explain these reasons to him now, at least not as tactlessly written as they are, but a couple of days back, he started pressuring me again about my indecision, and I just sent him this list (1-5, not 6 and 7, because I don't want to get into it and start fighting), hoping he would see where I am coming from. He got defensive on (1), as expected -- I told him I have nothing against his parents or them living close by, just not in the same house. I'm not sure he's convinced. We didn't talk about the rest of it. He's just been very emotionally distant in general; it's something I've never really seen before, and while I understand why, I'm scared. (We're not in the same place, and it's also really hard to figure out what he feels over phone or e-mail.)
He's not likely to wait more than 6-9 months for a decision/engagement, if I can stretch it that long. His parents have been getting antsy to see him married and settled down -- they're the ones who insisted on the meeting -- and he's getting nervous about time running out too. My parents are more cautious and want me to take my time. I've tried discussing all this with them, but they're not fully objective, and it's not very helpful.
Overall, I'm going through a lot of pain, regret, confusion, and guilt now. I'm also over-the-top stressed with work, since I'm trying to finish my PhD by June and I'm unable to concentrate on research or job applications, and that's getting me down as well. (It doesn't help that he's been my main source of emotional support with academic worries, and even work sometimes reminds me of him.)
We're both introverted and don't have many close friends and live in a different continent from our families, and are each other's best friends. And we genuinely love and care for each other. I do see myself marrying and having a family with him. My question is not whether we should break up or get married or neither. (Obviously, random strangers can't answer that, and I have a feeling that he might gradually break up with me anyway now, slowly and painfully. Boy, wouldn't that be karmic retribution?) Rather, assuming he's willing to discuss it at some point how do I try to resolve these issues? Can they be resolved?
He's not likely to wait more than 6-9 months for a decision/engagement, if I can stretch it that long.
You ain't got no business getting married until you sort your head out. "Letting loose" on your significant other isn't a habit that promotes household peace, regardless of how much remorse you end up feeling, or how caring and patient either of you are. And six to nine months isn't nearly enough time for you to get enough ducks in a row to actually walk into a marriage with mental habits that won't destroy it in the long (or even short) run.
Five years or seeing one another once a month is absolutely no basis for a marriage. Those are the breaks. You have no idea how genuinely compatible you are to one another. I know there are cultures (like yours, I guess) with arranged marriages that make this work somehow and so on and so forth but here and now and in the opinion of this random guy on the internet this is a terrible way to start off a life together and a path to misery when you realize the blow-ups just come harder and more frequent.
Go back to therapy. Find someone with whom you can start sorting out your issues. If this isn't enough time for the guy, well, it looks like you're stuck between a marriage that has everything working against it and a dozen swords of Damocles hanging over it as time rolls on, or not being with this person and taking your time and creating a life for yourself where marriage is a thing that can work.
posted by griphus at 7:40 AM on December 21, 2011
You ain't got no business getting married until you sort your head out. "Letting loose" on your significant other isn't a habit that promotes household peace, regardless of how much remorse you end up feeling, or how caring and patient either of you are. And six to nine months isn't nearly enough time for you to get enough ducks in a row to actually walk into a marriage with mental habits that won't destroy it in the long (or even short) run.
Five years or seeing one another once a month is absolutely no basis for a marriage. Those are the breaks. You have no idea how genuinely compatible you are to one another. I know there are cultures (like yours, I guess) with arranged marriages that make this work somehow and so on and so forth but here and now and in the opinion of this random guy on the internet this is a terrible way to start off a life together and a path to misery when you realize the blow-ups just come harder and more frequent.
Go back to therapy. Find someone with whom you can start sorting out your issues. If this isn't enough time for the guy, well, it looks like you're stuck between a marriage that has everything working against it and a dozen swords of Damocles hanging over it as time rolls on, or not being with this person and taking your time and creating a life for yourself where marriage is a thing that can work.
posted by griphus at 7:40 AM on December 21, 2011
Do NOT get married. You seem to very intensely not want to and seem to only be considering it because of cultural pressure. Whether or not you should continue the relationship is another matter: it's long-distance you you don't mention any reason why you want to stay with him. Sure, you could continue on and see how it goes, but definitely do not get married.
posted by Eicats at 7:40 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by Eicats at 7:40 AM on December 21, 2011
Also: I second everything GastrocNemesis and griphus said. (I should preview)
posted by Eicats at 7:42 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by Eicats at 7:42 AM on December 21, 2011
Perhaps breaking up would be a wake-up call for me to take charge of my issues, and everyone will be happier.
What's stopping you from taking charge of your issues now? That's a genuine question. Why is it that you feel like your issues can only be dealt with outside of the relationship? What has stopped you from seeking help in the past?
Are you, on some level, hoping that your issues will drive him away, and that it won't be your fault and you won't be the bad guy? (I have no idea if this rings true to you, but it's something to think about.)
How do you feel about the relationship -- not about him, but about the relationship the two of you have? Do you feel safe? Do you feel like you can be yourself? (It kind of sounds like you don't feel like you can be yourself with him, but only you know for sure.)
posted by pie ninja at 7:48 AM on December 21, 2011
What's stopping you from taking charge of your issues now? That's a genuine question. Why is it that you feel like your issues can only be dealt with outside of the relationship? What has stopped you from seeking help in the past?
Are you, on some level, hoping that your issues will drive him away, and that it won't be your fault and you won't be the bad guy? (I have no idea if this rings true to you, but it's something to think about.)
How do you feel about the relationship -- not about him, but about the relationship the two of you have? Do you feel safe? Do you feel like you can be yourself? (It kind of sounds like you don't feel like you can be yourself with him, but only you know for sure.)
posted by pie ninja at 7:48 AM on December 21, 2011
I feel that a marriage should start off innocent, without a history of intense, useless fights.
Unless you marry someone you literally met the day before, this is not possible, nor is it even reasonable. People in relationships disagree. It seems like the intense fighting going on in your relationship is coming from you and your lack of coping mechanisms, not from some serious conflict between the two of you.
posted by crankylex at 7:52 AM on December 21, 2011
Unless you marry someone you literally met the day before, this is not possible, nor is it even reasonable. People in relationships disagree. It seems like the intense fighting going on in your relationship is coming from you and your lack of coping mechanisms, not from some serious conflict between the two of you.
posted by crankylex at 7:52 AM on December 21, 2011
Nearly every detail you outline in your question is setting off alarms for me.
This is your first big relationship. It does not have to be this way. It possibly shouldn't have gone on this long to begin with.
I would offer advice about how to salvage things, but it doesn't really sound like you want to. It sounds like you're kind of done, and feel guilty about it, and that guilt is leading to indecision about how you should go forward.
It's okay to be done. You gave it a good shot. Better to back out now, before one of you torpedoes a career to move across the country.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:17 AM on December 21, 2011
This is your first big relationship. It does not have to be this way. It possibly shouldn't have gone on this long to begin with.
I would offer advice about how to salvage things, but it doesn't really sound like you want to. It sounds like you're kind of done, and feel guilty about it, and that guilt is leading to indecision about how you should go forward.
It's okay to be done. You gave it a good shot. Better to back out now, before one of you torpedoes a career to move across the country.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:17 AM on December 21, 2011
I think you would really benefit from therapy. I think the main problem you have is with overanalyzing everything and trying to make sure you're making the "right" decision. You sound really anxious, and I think it might benefit you to stop thinking about getting married and just learn how to enjoy being in a relationship, and figure out how to manage your anxiety.
You sound a little bit depressed, and from reading what you wrote, you seem just confused in general about who you are and who you think you'll become. You have to be really open to change in general and be accommodating in any kind of relationship you have with anybody.
I know you've posted this in hopes to clear up the confusion you feel, but truthfully, no one can "tell" you if this is a bad decision or a good decision. You really have to learn how to figure out how you really feel and what you really want by yourself.
I think you'll just have to figure out how you really feel about yourself and what you want to be like and how you're able to make yourself happy. Honestly, I think the relationship issue is probably just a distraction from the real issue, which is your relationship with yourself.
Learn to manage your anxiety and temper, regardless of what you do.
posted by anniecat at 8:32 AM on December 21, 2011
You sound a little bit depressed, and from reading what you wrote, you seem just confused in general about who you are and who you think you'll become. You have to be really open to change in general and be accommodating in any kind of relationship you have with anybody.
I know you've posted this in hopes to clear up the confusion you feel, but truthfully, no one can "tell" you if this is a bad decision or a good decision. You really have to learn how to figure out how you really feel and what you really want by yourself.
I think you'll just have to figure out how you really feel about yourself and what you want to be like and how you're able to make yourself happy. Honestly, I think the relationship issue is probably just a distraction from the real issue, which is your relationship with yourself.
Learn to manage your anxiety and temper, regardless of what you do.
posted by anniecat at 8:32 AM on December 21, 2011
Ok, I didn't dwell on the good parts of the relationship because they didn't seem relevant to the issues, but I see that I should, for context. These are my points of view, because I can't speak for him.
I've never felt as free, happy, or safe, with anyone else, not even my family, who I'm close to. I'm normally a very reserved person, but I can't stop talking around him. I feel like I tell him anything about myself or my thoughts, and he'll understand. Perhaps that's part of why I lash out and, well, that's awful -- but we also have a lot of awesome, pleasant times together. His voice almost always makes me feel calm and loved.
I respect and admire his intelligence and hard work, and the way he handles himself around people and situations. I like the way he thinks, whether it's related to his work or anything else.
I feel that he is a fundamentally good person. He tends to joke around sometimes that he's not because he's not as idealistic as me, but there's something really nice and upright about him that I can't put a finger on and I really like.
I'm incredibly physically attracted to him (and I think he is to me too). Although that's probably because of the long distance, and will fade. I'm ok about that, though.
Despite my reservations and our differences, I like his family. I've spent an inordinate amount of energy defending them to my parents. I'm just concerned about how we can get along in the same house. I'm not used to living with anyone other than my family and roommates.
We seem to just get each other. We can be silly and serious at the same time, and I don't know -- I feel a secure connection. When we visit each other, I feel like I am physically home in some familial way.
I feel extremely tender towards and protective of him (except when I'm the one he should be protected against, I guess). It hurts me like hell when he suffers even a minor drawback at work.
I suppose this answer's pie ninjia's question: his support has helped work on my issues. Our relationship is part of what has made me feel like I can have a good, happy life with someone who accepts me, and I've made a conscious effort to calm the hell down, and not take things so seriously and trust in his and others' good intentions. I honestly have not been lashing out with such frequency -- besides this time, the last incident was perhaps in June, after a long break. I know that's still a lot... I have more work to do, but his support is valuable. I just feel that working on myself outside the relationship would be more fair to him.
posted by redlines at 8:35 AM on December 21, 2011
I've never felt as free, happy, or safe, with anyone else, not even my family, who I'm close to. I'm normally a very reserved person, but I can't stop talking around him. I feel like I tell him anything about myself or my thoughts, and he'll understand. Perhaps that's part of why I lash out and, well, that's awful -- but we also have a lot of awesome, pleasant times together. His voice almost always makes me feel calm and loved.
I respect and admire his intelligence and hard work, and the way he handles himself around people and situations. I like the way he thinks, whether it's related to his work or anything else.
I feel that he is a fundamentally good person. He tends to joke around sometimes that he's not because he's not as idealistic as me, but there's something really nice and upright about him that I can't put a finger on and I really like.
I'm incredibly physically attracted to him (and I think he is to me too). Although that's probably because of the long distance, and will fade. I'm ok about that, though.
Despite my reservations and our differences, I like his family. I've spent an inordinate amount of energy defending them to my parents. I'm just concerned about how we can get along in the same house. I'm not used to living with anyone other than my family and roommates.
We seem to just get each other. We can be silly and serious at the same time, and I don't know -- I feel a secure connection. When we visit each other, I feel like I am physically home in some familial way.
I feel extremely tender towards and protective of him (except when I'm the one he should be protected against, I guess). It hurts me like hell when he suffers even a minor drawback at work.
I suppose this answer's pie ninjia's question: his support has helped work on my issues. Our relationship is part of what has made me feel like I can have a good, happy life with someone who accepts me, and I've made a conscious effort to calm the hell down, and not take things so seriously and trust in his and others' good intentions. I honestly have not been lashing out with such frequency -- besides this time, the last incident was perhaps in June, after a long break. I know that's still a lot... I have more work to do, but his support is valuable. I just feel that working on myself outside the relationship would be more fair to him.
posted by redlines at 8:35 AM on December 21, 2011
Perhaps breaking up would be a wake-up call for me to take charge of my issues, and everyone will be happier.
This stood out for me too. If you keep waiting for some external event to finally force you to solve the obvious problems which you know you have, you are going to have a very long wait.
I just feel that working on myself outside the relationship would be more fair to him.
You are setting up a false either/or situation here. Work on your issues. Do this independently of any decision about your relationship.
posted by ook at 8:38 AM on December 21, 2011
This stood out for me too. If you keep waiting for some external event to finally force you to solve the obvious problems which you know you have, you are going to have a very long wait.
I just feel that working on myself outside the relationship would be more fair to him.
You are setting up a false either/or situation here. Work on your issues. Do this independently of any decision about your relationship.
posted by ook at 8:38 AM on December 21, 2011
5-year, interminable, undrivable long-distance relationship? Really not sure if this has lasted this long (5/6 years spent together??) because you work so well together, or because you haven't been in proximity consistently enough for your interpersonal issues to snowball into a breakup. You cannot(should not?) make a marriage decision without having lived with a person for a considerable amount of time, to know how your dynamic will change in an atmosphere of cohabitation. Either quit your job and move in with him and accept that your standards of cleaning will have you do more of the work, or continue with the break up, and find someone who already lives near you. Better yet, stabilize your own life and then find someone new.
posted by MangyCarface at 9:16 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by MangyCarface at 9:16 AM on December 21, 2011
Unfortunately, in relationships, our partners often get the worst of our bad moods. We have a bad day at work and then come home and yell at them. We do this because it is not safe to throw a fit at our boss, but we feel that it is safe to do so with the ones we are closest to (i.e., my wife isn't going to leave me because I was in a bad mood; my boss might fire me, though). For better or for worse, this is fairly normal behaviour.
What you describe goes way beyond this, though. I'm having a tough time really getting a read on your relationship as a whole. Between the original Ask and your follow-up comment, well, I don't know. You might love him, but you don't seem to actually get along with him very well. But maybe I'm wrong.
So...should you get married? I don't know. I'm not going to go there (and, technically, that's not your question). Regardless of whether you continue this relationship or not, you need to deal with your anxiety and depression issues.
You say that you tried therapy and it didn't help. How long were you in therapy? Did you really give it a fair shake? If not, maybe you should try again (perhaps with a different therapist). If you did, then maybe talk therapy isn't the way to go. You may need medication to help you handle your issues. I know that there is some stigma around that in a lot of cultures, but you're not doing well right now. I'd take being healthy and stigmatized by the few people who know I'm on meds than being miserable and unable to sustain a healthy relationship for the rest of my life.
Try therapy again. If it doesn't work, talk to a psychiatrist.
posted by asnider at 9:36 AM on December 21, 2011
What you describe goes way beyond this, though. I'm having a tough time really getting a read on your relationship as a whole. Between the original Ask and your follow-up comment, well, I don't know. You might love him, but you don't seem to actually get along with him very well. But maybe I'm wrong.
So...should you get married? I don't know. I'm not going to go there (and, technically, that's not your question). Regardless of whether you continue this relationship or not, you need to deal with your anxiety and depression issues.
You say that you tried therapy and it didn't help. How long were you in therapy? Did you really give it a fair shake? If not, maybe you should try again (perhaps with a different therapist). If you did, then maybe talk therapy isn't the way to go. You may need medication to help you handle your issues. I know that there is some stigma around that in a lot of cultures, but you're not doing well right now. I'd take being healthy and stigmatized by the few people who know I'm on meds than being miserable and unable to sustain a healthy relationship for the rest of my life.
Try therapy again. If it doesn't work, talk to a psychiatrist.
posted by asnider at 9:36 AM on December 21, 2011
You're not ready yet. For marriage, for in-laws, or maybe even for an everyday, non-long-distance relationship with this man.
Going to therapy "a few times" does not qualify as an in-good-faith effort. It's like deciding to give up all wine when you've only tried Danny DeVito's prosecco.
posted by hermitosis at 10:10 AM on December 21, 2011
Going to therapy "a few times" does not qualify as an in-good-faith effort. It's like deciding to give up all wine when you've only tried Danny DeVito's prosecco.
posted by hermitosis at 10:10 AM on December 21, 2011
Despite my reservations and our differences, I like his family. I've spent an inordinate amount of energy defending them to my parents. I'm just concerned about how we can get along in the same house. I'm not used to living with anyone other than my family and roommates.
I wonder how much of these conflicts are culturally-driven. Your parents think his are lacking some how--low class, something like that? And your statements about how marriages should be "innocent" seems informed by that. Arranged marriages could feasibly be innocent, but Western-style marriages, which are forged based on love and friendship? Nuh-uh.
(Also it really doesn't sound like your parents will let you live with him.)
Anyway, you have a choice to make. You. Not him. Quit sending him lists. You need to either say to yourself, yes, this is the guy I'm going to marry, steel yourself to tell your parents to go screw with their class judgments and pressures and be prepared to defend your choices . . . or you need to decide not to (and to possibly just give into and let them to pick your husband for you). I suspect much of these pressures are being created because you're trying to have it both ways--to appease your parents and their cultural expectations but also to have this western-style relationship.
Also, take some responsibility for your actions. These freak outs are happening because you're diverting the anger you feel at your parents and taking it out on your boyfriend. They don't just happen spontaneously, and it sounds like you need counseling or anger management to sort that out, if you choose to stay with your boyfriend.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:19 AM on December 21, 2011
I wonder how much of these conflicts are culturally-driven. Your parents think his are lacking some how--low class, something like that? And your statements about how marriages should be "innocent" seems informed by that. Arranged marriages could feasibly be innocent, but Western-style marriages, which are forged based on love and friendship? Nuh-uh.
(Also it really doesn't sound like your parents will let you live with him.)
Anyway, you have a choice to make. You. Not him. Quit sending him lists. You need to either say to yourself, yes, this is the guy I'm going to marry, steel yourself to tell your parents to go screw with their class judgments and pressures and be prepared to defend your choices . . . or you need to decide not to (and to possibly just give into and let them to pick your husband for you). I suspect much of these pressures are being created because you're trying to have it both ways--to appease your parents and their cultural expectations but also to have this western-style relationship.
Also, take some responsibility for your actions. These freak outs are happening because you're diverting the anger you feel at your parents and taking it out on your boyfriend. They don't just happen spontaneously, and it sounds like you need counseling or anger management to sort that out, if you choose to stay with your boyfriend.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:19 AM on December 21, 2011
"It's only recently that they have reconciled somewhat, but for me, it's been a long, tiring road of arguing with them."
I wonder whether there might be something in this? You've been together since you were 21, presumably fresh out of education, finding your way in the world and starting to define yourself as a person. Part of that act of definition is standing up to your parents - breaking and remaking the bonds between you as you become an adult. I wouldn't presume to say this relationship has been your "rebellion" as such, but coming from a traditional background and choosing someone your parents didn't approve of could be part of how you struck out on your own - but in a safe way (you're actually been more apart than you have been together, so it's been somehow more acceptable to you and your families in some regard). Now they have actually come round to the idea of you being together, is it possible the spark that drove you towards him has been diminished somewhat, but you're uncomfortable at the thought of being apart from someone you've fought your parents so hard over?
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 10:24 AM on December 21, 2011
I wonder whether there might be something in this? You've been together since you were 21, presumably fresh out of education, finding your way in the world and starting to define yourself as a person. Part of that act of definition is standing up to your parents - breaking and remaking the bonds between you as you become an adult. I wouldn't presume to say this relationship has been your "rebellion" as such, but coming from a traditional background and choosing someone your parents didn't approve of could be part of how you struck out on your own - but in a safe way (you're actually been more apart than you have been together, so it's been somehow more acceptable to you and your families in some regard). Now they have actually come round to the idea of you being together, is it possible the spark that drove you towards him has been diminished somewhat, but you're uncomfortable at the thought of being apart from someone you've fought your parents so hard over?
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 10:24 AM on December 21, 2011
I just feel that working on myself outside the relationship would be more fair to him.
More fair to him as opposed to what? Staying with him and working on these issues? From this outsider's perspective, that sounds like a good scenario. You've already been working on this, and you say he's been supportive of that. With outside help and support, you can get to a point where you don't lash out at him.
This is a bit of a shot in the dark and may be totally off the mark, but: Is there some part of you that feels like you're broken, and thinks that he deserves someone who doesn't need repair? If so, please know that you don't have to be "fixed" or "flawless" to deserve love and kindness. You can admit that this is a problem and still be worthy of love.
All of us are human, and fallable, and sometimes we need help when we have problems. I think Dear Sugar has a lot of really good ways of looking at this, and I'd really recommend her back columns as food for thought.
posted by pie ninja at 10:25 AM on December 21, 2011
More fair to him as opposed to what? Staying with him and working on these issues? From this outsider's perspective, that sounds like a good scenario. You've already been working on this, and you say he's been supportive of that. With outside help and support, you can get to a point where you don't lash out at him.
This is a bit of a shot in the dark and may be totally off the mark, but: Is there some part of you that feels like you're broken, and thinks that he deserves someone who doesn't need repair? If so, please know that you don't have to be "fixed" or "flawless" to deserve love and kindness. You can admit that this is a problem and still be worthy of love.
All of us are human, and fallable, and sometimes we need help when we have problems. I think Dear Sugar has a lot of really good ways of looking at this, and I'd really recommend her back columns as food for thought.
posted by pie ninja at 10:25 AM on December 21, 2011
You have many questions and I can see by the way you write them out that you've been mulling them over endlessly in your head. But the best way to deal with them really is to discuss them with your boyfriend. Doing things to grow and mature on your own needs to happen but in order to form a relationship you need to work together on issues that affect you both. You are asking "What if..." and if you two can discuss it together and understand each others' thoughts on the matter it will give you a lot more information.
Part of what is difficult about being in a long distance situation is that you don't get to practice on the small everyday problems that crop up for couples that spend lots of time together. You can avoid facing up to issues rather than confronting them.
It's impossible to say if an of your concerns will actually become issues. It truly depends on the couple. One couple may face any one of the issues you describe and it would be too much for them. Another may be able to dispel the problem with a small discussion over coffee. It really depends on the way you two work together and communicate. That's what you need to figure out.
And as many have said, the tantrums need to be dealt with. It's something that it sounds like you aren't growing out of naturally. It's disrespectful and destructive to attack your partner when you should be thinking about how to team up to face issues together rather than imploding. I think that if you and he can work out a plan and work towards that you may realize even more strongly that by attacking him you are undermining your own plans and weakening your situation.
posted by tinamonster at 10:34 AM on December 21, 2011
Part of what is difficult about being in a long distance situation is that you don't get to practice on the small everyday problems that crop up for couples that spend lots of time together. You can avoid facing up to issues rather than confronting them.
It's impossible to say if an of your concerns will actually become issues. It truly depends on the couple. One couple may face any one of the issues you describe and it would be too much for them. Another may be able to dispel the problem with a small discussion over coffee. It really depends on the way you two work together and communicate. That's what you need to figure out.
And as many have said, the tantrums need to be dealt with. It's something that it sounds like you aren't growing out of naturally. It's disrespectful and destructive to attack your partner when you should be thinking about how to team up to face issues together rather than imploding. I think that if you and he can work out a plan and work towards that you may realize even more strongly that by attacking him you are undermining your own plans and weakening your situation.
posted by tinamonster at 10:34 AM on December 21, 2011
(I went to therapy a few times, but found it unhelpful.)
I would suggest that's because therapy is rarely helpful in a long-lasting way within just a few sessions. (It can give some initial relief for some people just in the act of getting some issues off your chest, or in feeling that you're on the right path to fixing some things, but in and of itself "a few times" won't really do anything.)
Even with a good practitioner that you click with (and that can take some trial and error to find), therapy takes real time, commitment, and hard work on your part to effect positive change in your personal life and relationships. Your questions are precisely the kind of thing that therapy is made for -- a safe space for you to work through many issues and start to develop healthier, adult coping and communication skills. Please consider giving it another shot.
posted by scody at 12:09 PM on December 21, 2011
I would suggest that's because therapy is rarely helpful in a long-lasting way within just a few sessions. (It can give some initial relief for some people just in the act of getting some issues off your chest, or in feeling that you're on the right path to fixing some things, but in and of itself "a few times" won't really do anything.)
Even with a good practitioner that you click with (and that can take some trial and error to find), therapy takes real time, commitment, and hard work on your part to effect positive change in your personal life and relationships. Your questions are precisely the kind of thing that therapy is made for -- a safe space for you to work through many issues and start to develop healthier, adult coping and communication skills. Please consider giving it another shot.
posted by scody at 12:09 PM on December 21, 2011
we had discussed who and when he would marry if it wasn't me
Stop asking people questions like this. Seriously, it's mean.
posted by rhizome at 12:29 PM on December 21, 2011
Stop asking people questions like this. Seriously, it's mean.
posted by rhizome at 12:29 PM on December 21, 2011
Rhizome: I may be an awful person in the relationship, but I didn't ask that question. He brought it up when discussing a friend's marriage and his own life plans.
posted by redlines at 12:35 PM on December 21, 2011
posted by redlines at 12:35 PM on December 21, 2011
I may be an awful person in the relationship
I hope that's not what you're taking away from this thread, because that is not what anyone is saying.
posted by crankylex at 12:45 PM on December 21, 2011
I hope that's not what you're taking away from this thread, because that is not what anyone is saying.
posted by crankylex at 12:45 PM on December 21, 2011
The entirety of your post seems to be about why the relationship will not work leading me to think you have serious doubts. However, there's also material in it (and your subsequent follow up post) about your emotional reaction to his moving on (that you would not like it and would find it uncomfortable). From personal experience, I will advise that you ensure the main reason you're not holding on is because of your ego (i.e. him finding someone else and being happy elsewhere).
posted by gadha at 1:04 PM on December 21, 2011
posted by gadha at 1:04 PM on December 21, 2011
I'm trying to finish my PhD by June
I am totally not even going to try to couch this in maybes: I am just going to tell you what to do.
Stop torturing yourself about where the relationship is going right now. I mean it. I know you need to figure out how important the relationship is to you in order to resolve the geographic aspects of your post-doc planning, but any decision you make in this critical period is suspect anyway, because your brain is basically steeped in stress hormones. Lay it aside. The fact that you freaked out after your parents met is a sign that you're not able to handle this right now. That's okay. That's a reasonable response to too much on your plate.
It's going to be a risk, trying to be together after such a long time apart. Don't add to it by making the decision an all-or-nothing one - sort out your geography problem and live near him, but put off the marriage planning until you've been in the same city as he is, for a while, and you have some stability in the sense of where you want your career to go. And if your fiance can't handle that, he's not the guy for you, because if you want a happy marriage you both have to be able to compromise. (But I bet your fiance is anxious, too, and just wants this all tidied up so he doesn't have to worry about it any more, which is another perfectly reasonable response from the partner of someone in the last throes of her PhD.)
You can both pick up torturing yourselves in about a year, if you finish in June, okay? But I bet it'll seem a lot clearer and less like torture then.
posted by gingerest at 2:12 PM on December 21, 2011
I am totally not even going to try to couch this in maybes: I am just going to tell you what to do.
Stop torturing yourself about where the relationship is going right now. I mean it. I know you need to figure out how important the relationship is to you in order to resolve the geographic aspects of your post-doc planning, but any decision you make in this critical period is suspect anyway, because your brain is basically steeped in stress hormones. Lay it aside. The fact that you freaked out after your parents met is a sign that you're not able to handle this right now. That's okay. That's a reasonable response to too much on your plate.
It's going to be a risk, trying to be together after such a long time apart. Don't add to it by making the decision an all-or-nothing one - sort out your geography problem and live near him, but put off the marriage planning until you've been in the same city as he is, for a while, and you have some stability in the sense of where you want your career to go. And if your fiance can't handle that, he's not the guy for you, because if you want a happy marriage you both have to be able to compromise. (But I bet your fiance is anxious, too, and just wants this all tidied up so he doesn't have to worry about it any more, which is another perfectly reasonable response from the partner of someone in the last throes of her PhD.)
You can both pick up torturing yourselves in about a year, if you finish in June, okay? But I bet it'll seem a lot clearer and less like torture then.
posted by gingerest at 2:12 PM on December 21, 2011
He sounds like a lovely guy and I wouldn't list consider any of the items on your list red flags or dealbreakers.
I have a PhD and during graduate school I was an absolute basket case, depressed and completely self-absorbed. (grad school makes people crazy!) Your university will have a health center in which you should be able to get counseling for your anxiety and stress, free of charge. I highly recommend that you take advantage of this service. Don't worry about the wedding question, it's not something you need to get sorted out this week. Get yourself in a better place in terms of your mental health before you make any major life decisions.
posted by emd3737 at 2:36 PM on December 21, 2011
I have a PhD and during graduate school I was an absolute basket case, depressed and completely self-absorbed. (grad school makes people crazy!) Your university will have a health center in which you should be able to get counseling for your anxiety and stress, free of charge. I highly recommend that you take advantage of this service. Don't worry about the wedding question, it's not something you need to get sorted out this week. Get yourself in a better place in terms of your mental health before you make any major life decisions.
posted by emd3737 at 2:36 PM on December 21, 2011
redlines, please stop beating yourself up. It's not helpful to you.
You are not an awful person---you can easily be someone who is earnestly trying to become a better person and you'll very likely succeed if you really commit yourself to changing the way you think about things (probably with the help of a good therapist). If you start changing the way you treat yourself, you'll probably be less hard on your mom and boyfriend.
You're very brave for having the parents meet. It's very mature. Just relax and stop being so hard on yourself and so thinky. You're just spinning the mental wheels and it's not even helping you.
This stuff you're talking about does not have to be a problem today or tomorrow, and don't have it boiling on the backburner. You don't have to make a decision until you actually have to make a decision. And that's not one you need in the next day or next month.
Just commit to yourself in the meantime and learn how to be patient with yourself and talk nicely about yourself to yourself. All the guilt in the world about the past isn't going to be helpful unless you change.
posted by anniecat at 3:50 PM on December 21, 2011
You are not an awful person---you can easily be someone who is earnestly trying to become a better person and you'll very likely succeed if you really commit yourself to changing the way you think about things (probably with the help of a good therapist). If you start changing the way you treat yourself, you'll probably be less hard on your mom and boyfriend.
You're very brave for having the parents meet. It's very mature. Just relax and stop being so hard on yourself and so thinky. You're just spinning the mental wheels and it's not even helping you.
This stuff you're talking about does not have to be a problem today or tomorrow, and don't have it boiling on the backburner. You don't have to make a decision until you actually have to make a decision. And that's not one you need in the next day or next month.
Just commit to yourself in the meantime and learn how to be patient with yourself and talk nicely about yourself to yourself. All the guilt in the world about the past isn't going to be helpful unless you change.
posted by anniecat at 3:50 PM on December 21, 2011
We've been long-distance (2hr flight) more than 5 years . . . We get to meet once every month, if that.
Aside from all of the (excellent) advice that others have contributed, I would say that just this is enough to say that you are absolutely not ready to get married yet. You should live together first for a minimum of ~a year before you decide to get married. Coupled with your other relationship issues, I think that this is even more important.
Since we've both been living independently of parents or SOs since we were 18, would it be hard to adjust to living together?
Hell yes. I dated my (awesome) wife for ~12 years before we got married, we lived in the same house in college, we really knew each other and got along great. Even then, living together was a huge adjustment. HUGE.
posted by Betelgeuse at 5:21 PM on December 21, 2011
Aside from all of the (excellent) advice that others have contributed, I would say that just this is enough to say that you are absolutely not ready to get married yet. You should live together first for a minimum of ~a year before you decide to get married. Coupled with your other relationship issues, I think that this is even more important.
Since we've both been living independently of parents or SOs since we were 18, would it be hard to adjust to living together?
Hell yes. I dated my (awesome) wife for ~12 years before we got married, we lived in the same house in college, we really knew each other and got along great. Even then, living together was a huge adjustment. HUGE.
posted by Betelgeuse at 5:21 PM on December 21, 2011
You should live together first for a minimum of ~a year before you decide to get married
Really? Why? Cite your source. Also: this is not at all realistic or even possible in a lot of cultures including, potentially, the culture in which the Asker finds herself.
posted by asnider at 5:28 PM on December 21, 2011
Really? Why? Cite your source. Also: this is not at all realistic or even possible in a lot of cultures including, potentially, the culture in which the Asker finds herself.
posted by asnider at 5:28 PM on December 21, 2011
Also: this is not at all realistic or even possible in a lot of cultures including, potentially, the culture in which the Asker finds herself.
I agree that it's not necessarily realistic or possible for everyone to live together before marriage, but it certainly is strongly advisable to at least live in the same town so that they can coexist on a regular daily basis for sometime.
posted by scody at 5:31 PM on December 21, 2011
I agree that it's not necessarily realistic or possible for everyone to live together before marriage, but it certainly is strongly advisable to at least live in the same town so that they can coexist on a regular daily basis for sometime.
posted by scody at 5:31 PM on December 21, 2011
We're from such different worlds, and they're a lot more conservative than my family, so I'm scared I'll lose my personal freedom and space.
Have you talked to him about this? You aren't going to get any answers about this from us.
But people resemble their upbringing more as they age
Except when they don't, which is all the time.
Any way, you probably shouldn't get married because you sound emotionally immature and it seems like your parents loom far too large in your life.
posted by spaltavian at 8:06 PM on December 21, 2011
Have you talked to him about this? You aren't going to get any answers about this from us.
But people resemble their upbringing more as they age
Except when they don't, which is all the time.
Any way, you probably shouldn't get married because you sound emotionally immature and it seems like your parents loom far too large in your life.
posted by spaltavian at 8:06 PM on December 21, 2011
I agree that grad school makes people crazy. The stress of a PhD program changes people's personalities and often ruins relationships. I saw it happen with the majority of students in my program. But the program is almost over. Finish your PhD. It's not that far away. Then take a break, step back, and give it some time.
I don't know about the other stuff, but one person can only handle so much stress at any time. Once you finish school, give yourself a break and be patient and you will probably have a much better perspective.
posted by citron at 9:56 PM on December 21, 2011
I don't know about the other stuff, but one person can only handle so much stress at any time. Once you finish school, give yourself a break and be patient and you will probably have a much better perspective.
posted by citron at 9:56 PM on December 21, 2011
Actually, Redlines, I want to suggest something different from most of the people are saying. It sounds like you are indian. So by that standard, even though you and your boyfriend only have long distance relationship, it's still very significant relationship. Think about how our parent's generation make marriage work with a lot less interaction that you two. The thing is that your boyfriend is already great by many standard. Even if you start a new recreational with a different person, you will have lots of problems and in-laws to deal with. For me, I really don't understand my in-laws till about 10 yr down my marriage. Now I have completely changed my attitude toward them. I start to like them and hope to spend time with them instead of feeling tortured having to live under the same roof with them before. You see, people change all the time. You need to work on yourself for sure and to have FAITH that you have got a person as good as it gets, then move on with life, build the best you can, be the best you can be as a wife. Learn along the way, through pain and joy and enjoy the journey with all its flavors. It's not how well you two match at this point, it's how you two move on together. Best wishes
posted by akomom at 10:22 PM on December 21, 2011
posted by akomom at 10:22 PM on December 21, 2011
I didn't ask that question. He brought it up when discussing a friend's marriage and his own life plans.
Wow, really? I'm sorry! That is the first time I've ever heard it happening that way. And now that I write "that way," I'm flummoxed to articulate it very well. I guess I mean I've never heard of that question coming from the undramatic one in the relationship (by my reading). Again, my apologies, but still, I give people permission to "next question" that one at all times. Just tell them I said so. "Your question sucks. Next." Because it really does, and it only ever ends in BS that has nothing to do with reality.
posted by rhizome at 10:41 PM on December 21, 2011
Wow, really? I'm sorry! That is the first time I've ever heard it happening that way. And now that I write "that way," I'm flummoxed to articulate it very well. I guess I mean I've never heard of that question coming from the undramatic one in the relationship (by my reading). Again, my apologies, but still, I give people permission to "next question" that one at all times. Just tell them I said so. "Your question sucks. Next." Because it really does, and it only ever ends in BS that has nothing to do with reality.
posted by rhizome at 10:41 PM on December 21, 2011
(1) Finish your PhD. (2) Then make gigantic life decisions.
Always good advice.
posted by yogalemon at 11:02 PM on December 21, 2011
Always good advice.
posted by yogalemon at 11:02 PM on December 21, 2011
Given all these really big things operational and otherwise, ask yourself if he wants to get married or if he wants to get married to you.
posted by ambient2 at 11:38 PM on December 21, 2011
posted by ambient2 at 11:38 PM on December 21, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
If I were in your shoes, I'd break up and then seek therapy to deal with the anxiety and depression, because it's clearly negatively affecting your relationships. Besides, from all the stuff you wrote, I don't see any compelling reason for you two to stay together anyway. The odds seemed to be stacked against you. You sound like you don't have your life figured out, and trying to make things work with this guy on his terms is only going to delay that. Also, you don't even seem like you like each other that much.
posted by GastrocNemesis at 7:39 AM on December 21, 2011