He's not Married.
November 5, 2011 11:00 AM Subscribe
Melting snowflake relationship filter. I don't believe that my boyfriend is married. My friends and some of my family do. All the messy details under the fold.
I've been seeing 'Chuck' for almost five months. I like him. A lot. We have great times together. But, in all this time I have yet to see his home or meet anyone he knows. I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend. We have a fairly structured set of times we see one another, but this is mostly due to my schedule, which is quite busy at the moment. We go out occasionally but mostly hang out at my place. We see each other a couple of times a week, sometimes briefly in between.
He's an unusual kind of guy in a lot of ways, and I don't think it's that sinister, I trust him when he says mine are the only lips he's kissing. But, not everyone is as trusting as me and I'm getting a lot of feedback along the lines of 'forcing' him to open the rest of his life to me to prove he's not hiding another woman. I don't want to do this. I want to trust this amazing, amazing guy that I've had the good fortune to meet.
A few details about him. He's brilliant and socially awkward. He tends to be a loner who listens to TED talks on his iPod and paints and reads. I'm a nerdish type, too and understand that he finds social situations awkward. He has met members of my family and although the interactions were pleasant enough, he found them "exhausting".
So, do I ignore my friends, who only have my best interests at heart? Do I ask them not to speculate about it? Or should I be listening to them?
I've been seeing 'Chuck' for almost five months. I like him. A lot. We have great times together. But, in all this time I have yet to see his home or meet anyone he knows. I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend. We have a fairly structured set of times we see one another, but this is mostly due to my schedule, which is quite busy at the moment. We go out occasionally but mostly hang out at my place. We see each other a couple of times a week, sometimes briefly in between.
He's an unusual kind of guy in a lot of ways, and I don't think it's that sinister, I trust him when he says mine are the only lips he's kissing. But, not everyone is as trusting as me and I'm getting a lot of feedback along the lines of 'forcing' him to open the rest of his life to me to prove he's not hiding another woman. I don't want to do this. I want to trust this amazing, amazing guy that I've had the good fortune to meet.
A few details about him. He's brilliant and socially awkward. He tends to be a loner who listens to TED talks on his iPod and paints and reads. I'm a nerdish type, too and understand that he finds social situations awkward. He has met members of my family and although the interactions were pleasant enough, he found them "exhausting".
So, do I ignore my friends, who only have my best interests at heart? Do I ask them not to speculate about it? Or should I be listening to them?
Listen to them. This isn't just quirky, it's disturbing.
posted by ellF at 11:04 AM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by ellF at 11:04 AM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, how would he act if he were married? What would a womanizer tell each woman about kissing their lips?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:05 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:05 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Five months? That's really too long not to have met anyone in his life and not to have seen his living situation. He may not be married, but there's certainly something there he doesn't want you to know about, and by the time five months has rolled around I'd be setting an ultimatum to find out what it is or end the relationship.
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:06 AM on November 5, 2011 [37 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:06 AM on November 5, 2011 [37 favorites]
Been there. He had a parallel life and another girlfriend. But he was SO good at juggling us that my family and friends did not suspect either. I found out accidentally and the resulting mess was worthy of Jerry Springer. Life is too, too, too short to wonder. If he REALLY liked you back? He wouldn't care if you asked him about his family or friends or apartment. Or at least one of those three. If you ask him about this and he gets defensive or in any way suggests that you are being paranoid or not trusting him or being rude for asking? Walk. Away.
posted by jeanmari at 11:14 AM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by jeanmari at 11:14 AM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
This is weird and a red flag of some kind, although not necessarily one about his relationship status with anyone else. But on one point you raise -- why is this all about whether you trust him?
You've been seeing your boyfriend for five months. Why don't you want to see where he lives? Why don't you want to meet his friends and/or family? It seems like you would naturally be curious and interested. In a good relationship, you can tell your partner what you want, and especially when it's something reasonable and minor like this, they'll work with you to make it happen.
("Hey babe, let's cook dinner at your place Friday." "Let's have a happy hour with some of both of our friends next Thursday." This is really not that hard or complicated, and it's unsettling that it appears to be, as well as that you appear to be buying into that.)
posted by J. Wilson at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2011 [15 favorites]
You've been seeing your boyfriend for five months. Why don't you want to see where he lives? Why don't you want to meet his friends and/or family? It seems like you would naturally be curious and interested. In a good relationship, you can tell your partner what you want, and especially when it's something reasonable and minor like this, they'll work with you to make it happen.
("Hey babe, let's cook dinner at your place Friday." "Let's have a happy hour with some of both of our friends next Thursday." This is really not that hard or complicated, and it's unsettling that it appears to be, as well as that you appear to be buying into that.)
posted by J. Wilson at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2011 [15 favorites]
Intuition....it's a powerful thing. I don't think you'd be writing this question if you didn't feel that something was a little off. I'm not saying for sure that he is married, but I agree with BlahLaLa that there's something he is hiding. You really like him, so part of you doesn't want to know this and have the relationship completely changed, right? On the other hand, you can't really go forward not knowing. You have to take steps to find out more about his life, and if he won't let you; well.....
posted by bearette at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by bearette at 11:16 AM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
The problem is that the facts are consistent with a very, very common scenario, and your gut instinct is undermined by the facts that (1) you're too close to the circumstance emotionally to assess it objectively, and (2) as you admitted, you "want" to trust him.
Here's the thing about trust: It relies on people not asking it of each other. Let's take a small, emotionally neutral example. You're a college student who misses a few consecutive classes. The right thing to do isn't to ask your professor to "trust" that you were ill, or had a work commitment, or whatever. The right thing to do is to bring a note from your doctor, or the work itinerary, or whatever confirmation you can muster—not expecting your professor to scrutinize its every detail, just as a polite gesture that proves you're not asking for trust. Because asking for trust is an imposition.
It's a red flag when somebody asks for this substantial an imposition, this early in the relationship, and in a circumstance that is so often, understandably, and (sadly) correctly interpreted as, "He's married." My objection would be that he's asking you to have this faith. That's not kind, reasonable, or fair, in my opinion. Whether or not he's married, it is objectively reasonable for you to worry that he might be, given the circumstances—and that's what he should be sensitive to. He should perceive that and give you reasonable confirmation that he isn't. Asking for this particular leap of faith is unkind, even if it's true.
posted by red clover at 11:17 AM on November 5, 2011 [28 favorites]
Here's the thing about trust: It relies on people not asking it of each other. Let's take a small, emotionally neutral example. You're a college student who misses a few consecutive classes. The right thing to do isn't to ask your professor to "trust" that you were ill, or had a work commitment, or whatever. The right thing to do is to bring a note from your doctor, or the work itinerary, or whatever confirmation you can muster—not expecting your professor to scrutinize its every detail, just as a polite gesture that proves you're not asking for trust. Because asking for trust is an imposition.
It's a red flag when somebody asks for this substantial an imposition, this early in the relationship, and in a circumstance that is so often, understandably, and (sadly) correctly interpreted as, "He's married." My objection would be that he's asking you to have this faith. That's not kind, reasonable, or fair, in my opinion. Whether or not he's married, it is objectively reasonable for you to worry that he might be, given the circumstances—and that's what he should be sensitive to. He should perceive that and give you reasonable confirmation that he isn't. Asking for this particular leap of faith is unkind, even if it's true.
posted by red clover at 11:17 AM on November 5, 2011 [28 favorites]
FYI? The guy I knew? Kept us both going for almost a year. And I was an highly-educated, confident woman who also happened to be really busy and oversensitive to his feelings about implications he wasn't being trusted. He had been dating the other girl for almost three years (we overlapped during the one, she tried to make it work with him afterwards. I ditched him.)
posted by jeanmari at 11:17 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jeanmari at 11:17 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, my girlfriend never visited my apartment at the beginning of our relationship. Her apartment was just plain better, so I always stayed there.
She only ever came to my apartment once: when I eventually moved in, she came to my apartment to help me out. I was neither hoarding nor married, although it was true that I was pretty embarrassed at how messy my apartment was (and it wasn't even that messy, despite my sometimes-furry bathtub).
We both had very busy schedules, especially since I was a full-time law student, whereas she worked full-time and had to leave the house at 6:30. So, it never really made sense to crash at my place.
Also, and perhaps most importantly, she never asked to see my place. I certainly would have let her.
Anyway, just ask to see his apartment, if it bugs you.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:20 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
She only ever came to my apartment once: when I eventually moved in, she came to my apartment to help me out. I was neither hoarding nor married, although it was true that I was pretty embarrassed at how messy my apartment was (and it wasn't even that messy, despite my sometimes-furry bathtub).
We both had very busy schedules, especially since I was a full-time law student, whereas she worked full-time and had to leave the house at 6:30. So, it never really made sense to crash at my place.
Also, and perhaps most importantly, she never asked to see my place. I certainly would have let her.
Anyway, just ask to see his apartment, if it bugs you.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:20 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Time to bring it up again. Say, "listen Chuck, I think you're completely amazing. You know I'm thrilled to be dating such an awesome guy. But it kind of trips me out that I've never seen you place, and you keep me away from your friends. I mean, I let you come over to my place on our second date, remember? Is there a reason you're keeping me at arm's length? My friends keep pestering me about it and I'm really at a loss for what to tell them, because honestly I agree that it's strange. So clue me in."
posted by milk white peacock at 11:21 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by milk white peacock at 11:21 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
Are facebook friends with him or something like that? Can you call (not email, not text, but actual talking) him whenever you want or are there times you know he won't pick up that aren't related to work hours?
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 11:22 AM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 11:22 AM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
I dunno, it sounds like your friends and we random internet strangers get a weird vibe, but it's not evidence based. Since none of us are psychic, why trust our judgement on this over your own? I just think it would be mildly unfair to put out an ultimatum because you have a funny feeling or something.
However, there is a problem that you have evidence about! You seem to like the guy a lot ("amazing, amazing guy that I've had the good fortune to meet"), and he appears to be involved in your life in a real and significant way (met the family). Conversely, you are not involved in his life in any significant way. That's unfair to you (if you really do actually care about the guy), and he should at this point be willing to open up a bit. So, if you want your to be on equal footing in your relationship with him, try to assert your desire to be in his life. That can be in the form of an ultimatum if that's your style.
If you really dig him, you and he should both recognize that he should be treating you better than hiding you from his life. Alternatively, if you don't really dig him, do you care what goes on in his life (even if it's another woman)?
posted by bessel functions seem unnecessarily complicated at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
However, there is a problem that you have evidence about! You seem to like the guy a lot ("amazing, amazing guy that I've had the good fortune to meet"), and he appears to be involved in your life in a real and significant way (met the family). Conversely, you are not involved in his life in any significant way. That's unfair to you (if you really do actually care about the guy), and he should at this point be willing to open up a bit. So, if you want your to be on equal footing in your relationship with him, try to assert your desire to be in his life. That can be in the form of an ultimatum if that's your style.
If you really dig him, you and he should both recognize that he should be treating you better than hiding you from his life. Alternatively, if you don't really dig him, do you care what goes on in his life (even if it's another woman)?
posted by bessel functions seem unnecessarily complicated at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
The first question I have reading your question is--do you at least know where he lives. It could be 'strange' that you haven't seen his home yet, but I think it would be more worrisome if you didn't actually know his address/neighborhood at this point. I would talk to him about seeing his home and/or meeting his friends and family. At five months it's well within what a person can expect to know about the person they are dating.
posted by marimeko at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by marimeko at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is it possible that he is just embarassed or ashamed of where he lives? Since he's a loner, he may not have many friends to introduce you to. Maybe his family lives far away?
Have you discussed your friends and family, even in the context of "Oh my parents did XYZ... gosh parents! What are you gonna do with them... So do your parents do XYZ too?". I don't know him so I don't know if he's married or not so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Or maybe he just doesn't like to have people over. I don't like having people that aren't very close friends over in my private space. I wouldn't introduce or even mention a guy to my parents until I knew for sure we were serious. I'm talking six months at least.
Are you morally opposed to the idea of just googling him and seeing what you can find?
posted by lovelygirl at 11:24 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
Have you discussed your friends and family, even in the context of "Oh my parents did XYZ... gosh parents! What are you gonna do with them... So do your parents do XYZ too?". I don't know him so I don't know if he's married or not so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Or maybe he just doesn't like to have people over. I don't like having people that aren't very close friends over in my private space. I wouldn't introduce or even mention a guy to my parents until I knew for sure we were serious. I'm talking six months at least.
Are you morally opposed to the idea of just googling him and seeing what you can find?
posted by lovelygirl at 11:24 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
I think it's possible that he's just fiercely private and/or self-conscious for some reason about his life... but I think you have every reason to seek hard evidence at this point that he is being honest to (and monogamous with) you, and he should have every reason to be sure that you are completely satisfied with his explanations.
In the interim, some questions I'd ask you if you were my friend:
- Does he guard his cell phone when you're together?
- Is he available primarily on weekdays/nights?
- Does he travel often for work?
- Do have plans to be together during the holidays?
- Have you Googled him to see if he owns (especially if he co-owns) his house or apartment?
- Does he have friends in town other that you? Does he ever communicate with them or discuss anecdotes about them?
- Do you know anything about his last significant relationship?
- Is he readily available by voice on evenings/weekends when you're not together?
posted by argonauta at 11:25 AM on November 5, 2011 [15 favorites]
In the interim, some questions I'd ask you if you were my friend:
- Does he guard his cell phone when you're together?
- Is he available primarily on weekdays/nights?
- Does he travel often for work?
- Do have plans to be together during the holidays?
- Have you Googled him to see if he owns (especially if he co-owns) his house or apartment?
- Does he have friends in town other that you? Does he ever communicate with them or discuss anecdotes about them?
- Do you know anything about his last significant relationship?
- Is he readily available by voice on evenings/weekends when you're not together?
posted by argonauta at 11:25 AM on November 5, 2011 [15 favorites]
I think jumping to conclusions that he is married or has another girlfriend are premature, but it's a huge red flag that you've never seen his apartment. He's hiding something. It might be more benign, like he's a huge slob or he's so obsessive that he can't bear the thought of a stranger tracking dirt in the house. Maybe he just has horrible roommates, or doesn't want you to judge him on his collection of Stephen King novels, whatever. Better to know these things anyway so you can decide if they're deal breakers. I'd say invent some excuse to hang at his place, and if you get a ton of resistance, call him on it directly.
posted by slow graffiti at 11:26 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by slow graffiti at 11:26 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Trust, but verify.
It's not really just the presence of another woman and committed relationship that you want to verify. You want to make sure he isn't hiding maybe hoarding/squalor issues; a massive weapons collection and images of politicians; a girl in a pit to make a human skin suit; or that the other woman isn't his mother's corpse he's stolen, then preserved the body, and developed a split personality in which the two personas — Chuck and "Mother" — coexist.
That is, if you want things to go any further down the road. Othewise, what you have now together can stay how it is indefinitely, right?
posted by peagood at 11:26 AM on November 5, 2011 [25 favorites]
It's not really just the presence of another woman and committed relationship that you want to verify. You want to make sure he isn't hiding maybe hoarding/squalor issues; a massive weapons collection and images of politicians; a girl in a pit to make a human skin suit; or that the other woman isn't his mother's corpse he's stolen, then preserved the body, and developed a split personality in which the two personas — Chuck and "Mother" — coexist.
That is, if you want things to go any further down the road. Othewise, what you have now together can stay how it is indefinitely, right?
posted by peagood at 11:26 AM on November 5, 2011 [25 favorites]
The whole thing sounds kind of control freakish on his part and unsatisfying on your part. He wants very specific things from you and he's getting them, then when you ask him to throw a few perfectly reasonable things your way he won't. Generally this is a sign of a guy who has more important things going on. Could be his wife, his 17 cats or that he lives in his mother's basement with her 17 cats. Either way there's an elephant in the room and he's worried about the elephant than your feelings at this point. You're going to have to clear the air to get what you want out of this relationship. Or ditch him.
As an aside, I don't know when "nerdy" became an excuse for being rude and self absorbed but it's not. Plenty of nerdy people are absolutely lovely.
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 AM on November 5, 2011 [12 favorites]
As an aside, I don't know when "nerdy" became an excuse for being rude and self absorbed but it's not. Plenty of nerdy people are absolutely lovely.
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 AM on November 5, 2011 [12 favorites]
In this economy, "lives with his parents" is just as likely as "secret wife." I'm just saying -- it might not be as bad as your friends think.
posted by faster than a speeding bulette at 11:48 AM on November 5, 2011 [23 favorites]
posted by faster than a speeding bulette at 11:48 AM on November 5, 2011 [23 favorites]
The part that I find missing here is, have you asked him? What did he answer?
posted by Vaike at 11:56 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Vaike at 11:56 AM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
Relationships are about letting your life connect with someone else's. Whatever the reason you haven't seen his his house or met anyone he knows--secret wife, embarrassed that he lives with his parents, just really socially awkward and uncomfortable letting someone in--it doesn't bode well for the relationship.
Your friends are fixated on him being married because they sense something is wrong and a secret wife is what they've come up with. You don't need to make the same assumptions as them, but you'd be wise to take their concerns seriously.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:58 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your friends are fixated on him being married because they sense something is wrong and a secret wife is what they've come up with. You don't need to make the same assumptions as them, but you'd be wise to take their concerns seriously.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:58 AM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are you really dating or is it great food and great sex? I have done the whole "I'm an introvert....me too" thing and when pushed for a more social, normal relationship dating experience then the truth surfaced. Did it more than once before I realized my own pattern of behavior.
posted by cairnoflore at 12:20 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by cairnoflore at 12:20 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Chances are he is hiding something. Maybe it's a wife or a live in girlfriend. It's hard to say. Very easily could be something else too that is too odd to possibly guess.
But here's the thing, even if he isn't, and really maybe he isn't. He is clearly so closed off emotionally that you will never have the kind of relationship I am assuming you want. This relationship will never progress. You have been placed in a corner of his life. A little walled off area that doesn't invade either his space or his time.
posted by whoaali at 12:22 PM on November 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
But here's the thing, even if he isn't, and really maybe he isn't. He is clearly so closed off emotionally that you will never have the kind of relationship I am assuming you want. This relationship will never progress. You have been placed in a corner of his life. A little walled off area that doesn't invade either his space or his time.
posted by whoaali at 12:22 PM on November 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend.
Yeah but did ya'll talk about this? You asked...something...but it's not clear what. He's specificially said he's not married and he doesn't have a girlfriend. But have ya'll had a conversation about why you've never seen his home or met any of friends after five months? If no, then why not?
If I were you, I'd pointedly ask to see the inside of his home, if only for five minutes, just to gain a better understanding of who he is.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:38 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah but did ya'll talk about this? You asked...something...but it's not clear what. He's specificially said he's not married and he doesn't have a girlfriend. But have ya'll had a conversation about why you've never seen his home or met any of friends after five months? If no, then why not?
If I were you, I'd pointedly ask to see the inside of his home, if only for five minutes, just to gain a better understanding of who he is.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:38 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
But, not everyone is as trusting as me and I'm getting a lot of feedback along the lines of 'forcing' him to open the rest of his life to me to prove he's not hiding another woman.
What if you took the idea of him hiding another woman off the table completely, just to think this through? Because right now you're coming at this from a perspective of 'if I trust he's not cheating on me, then this situation is fine and I can't/shouldn't ask to know anything about his life' perspective, and it might help to decouple those a bit in your head.
So, okay: assume you can absolutely know without any doubt that he's not cheating on you, and assume he's not doing anything else which would count as a betrayal of your trust. He just doesn't want you to see where he lives, or meet anyone significant in his life. Would that be okay? It's up to you, of course, but I would vote 'no' there, because trust should go in both directions. Letting someone into your life is also about trust, in the sense of intimacy and vulnerability, and it isn't fair to take that from someone else without being willing to reciprocate. It's even less fair to say, effectively, "I refuse to trust you enough to let you meet anyone I know or see the paint scheme in my kitchen, but I expect you to trust me enough to be totally okay with a situation in which I act exactly like someone who's hiding some nefarious secret from you would."
And that's the best-case scenario, in which he's not actually hiding some nefarious secret from you. He still might be - and alas, being a nerdy, brilliant introvert is not incompatible with being the kind of person who would pull something like that.
How would he react to you saying "look, I don't want to accuse you of hiding anything from me, but you're actively shutting me out from your life and it would make me feel much better if you could [let me see your place/introduce me to your friends/involve me in your life more]"? If he isn't comfortable with that, then you're looking at one of two options: either he is hiding something seriously unpleasant from you, or he doesn't have anything seriously unpleasant to hide but he'd rather make you uncomfortable and/or worried than let you have even the slightest inroad into his life. Neither of these are great options, but both of them would count as information that you really need to have.
posted by Catseye at 12:39 PM on November 5, 2011 [14 favorites]
What if you took the idea of him hiding another woman off the table completely, just to think this through? Because right now you're coming at this from a perspective of 'if I trust he's not cheating on me, then this situation is fine and I can't/shouldn't ask to know anything about his life' perspective, and it might help to decouple those a bit in your head.
So, okay: assume you can absolutely know without any doubt that he's not cheating on you, and assume he's not doing anything else which would count as a betrayal of your trust. He just doesn't want you to see where he lives, or meet anyone significant in his life. Would that be okay? It's up to you, of course, but I would vote 'no' there, because trust should go in both directions. Letting someone into your life is also about trust, in the sense of intimacy and vulnerability, and it isn't fair to take that from someone else without being willing to reciprocate. It's even less fair to say, effectively, "I refuse to trust you enough to let you meet anyone I know or see the paint scheme in my kitchen, but I expect you to trust me enough to be totally okay with a situation in which I act exactly like someone who's hiding some nefarious secret from you would."
And that's the best-case scenario, in which he's not actually hiding some nefarious secret from you. He still might be - and alas, being a nerdy, brilliant introvert is not incompatible with being the kind of person who would pull something like that.
How would he react to you saying "look, I don't want to accuse you of hiding anything from me, but you're actively shutting me out from your life and it would make me feel much better if you could [let me see your place/introduce me to your friends/involve me in your life more]"? If he isn't comfortable with that, then you're looking at one of two options: either he is hiding something seriously unpleasant from you, or he doesn't have anything seriously unpleasant to hide but he'd rather make you uncomfortable and/or worried than let you have even the slightest inroad into his life. Neither of these are great options, but both of them would count as information that you really need to have.
posted by Catseye at 12:39 PM on November 5, 2011 [14 favorites]
Why don't you just ask to see his place? Or to know if not, why not? If he puts up a lot of excuses let him know that at this stage, that's not on - he at least has to tell you/show you what the real deal is. As for 'squalor/hoarding' as some people have put it, if that's the case that isn't necessarily an insoluble problem, it can be tied to undiagnosed/untreated/not well treated mental health issues which are resolvable if someone gets the right help to address them, but the crushing burden of shame that comes with having such issues and the way some people will write off someone from the get-go just for having them, can make that very hard to own up to. People with such issues can often be keeping a distance from family because of that or something related to them. That may be looking for zebras rather than horses (double life/secret wife) but until you ask you don't know. I think if someone is asked and refuses to give an explanation or gives an explanation which sounds phoney or laboured, then that in itself becomes an issue - without honest communication a relationship can't progress. If partner wont communicate openly on the issue, then that is the sign that all certainly is not well and things likely must change or stop.
posted by Flitcraft at 12:42 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Flitcraft at 12:42 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
What if you took the idea of him hiding another woman off the table completely, just to think this through?
Honestly, I'd recommend against trying to think this through. Just ask to see his place, maybe when ya'll are out and see how it goes, how he reacts.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:42 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I'd recommend against trying to think this through. Just ask to see his place, maybe when ya'll are out and see how it goes, how he reacts.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:42 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, I'm going to bet that living with the parents is a possibility too. I had a friend in a similar situation and the guy turned out to be living with his parents at 30, which he was ashamed of. In this economy, we need to get over that shame.
posted by melissam at 12:46 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by melissam at 12:46 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
I don't see it as a problem that you haven't seen his place -- but there's a reason why, and by this point he should be able to tell you what it is. Maybe he does live in squalor, or is a hoarder, or is embarrassed because of something else. I think it's reasonable for you to ask for information.
Does he actually have friends? I've kinown some awkward, geeky guys that really didn't hang out with anyone if they could help it. But, you know, he could tell you if that's the case, rather than just ignoring the matter or hiding it.
For now, I think it would be preferable to say, "I'd like to know you better -- I want to feel welcome in your life," and not, "You're shutting me out."
But after five months, if he can't deal with it honestly, you may need to move on.
posted by wryly at 12:47 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Does he actually have friends? I've kinown some awkward, geeky guys that really didn't hang out with anyone if they could help it. But, you know, he could tell you if that's the case, rather than just ignoring the matter or hiding it.
For now, I think it would be preferable to say, "I'd like to know you better -- I want to feel welcome in your life," and not, "You're shutting me out."
But after five months, if he can't deal with it honestly, you may need to move on.
posted by wryly at 12:47 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't necessarily think "married" when I read this if he has social issues. I do, however, think it sounds likely that he has little to no friends. Does he ever mention any for you to meet?* And I do think that hoarder or some other issue at home sounds likely.
* I'll be fair, I had one boyfriend who met about 3 friends of mine while we were together...but I was running low on friends at the time and he met 2 of them about once apiece.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:50 PM on November 5, 2011
* I'll be fair, I had one boyfriend who met about 3 friends of mine while we were together...but I was running low on friends at the time and he met 2 of them about once apiece.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:50 PM on November 5, 2011
Here is another scenario: he lives with a relative who is seriously ill and he takes care of them sometime, which has been socially isolating. So not all scenarios are bad, but they all require you to know about them and deal with them before the relationship moves forward.
posted by melissam at 12:57 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by melissam at 12:57 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm someone who has sort of been where you are. Sort of.
My one friend who had the lady-balls to tell me she didn't like this guy, didn't trust him, and was frankly freaked the fuck out by him saved my life.
It was her having told me that something was wrong before I could see it that gave me the courage and clear headedness to get the fuck out.
All of my other friends who met this guy have said to me since I left him that "he seemed a little off" or they "felt creeped out." But they didn't say anything because I "seemed so happy" and they didn't want to bash on someone without specific details. Sure, if they had seen him smothering puppies in an alley, they would have told me. But this was just something that was "off."
If your friends are concerned enough about this level of weirdness that they are willing to express it to you so directly, please please listen to them.
Please.
posted by bilabial at 1:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [13 favorites]
My one friend who had the lady-balls to tell me she didn't like this guy, didn't trust him, and was frankly freaked the fuck out by him saved my life.
It was her having told me that something was wrong before I could see it that gave me the courage and clear headedness to get the fuck out.
All of my other friends who met this guy have said to me since I left him that "he seemed a little off" or they "felt creeped out." But they didn't say anything because I "seemed so happy" and they didn't want to bash on someone without specific details. Sure, if they had seen him smothering puppies in an alley, they would have told me. But this was just something that was "off."
If your friends are concerned enough about this level of weirdness that they are willing to express it to you so directly, please please listen to them.
Please.
posted by bilabial at 1:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [13 favorites]
I love red clover's take on this. This guy is showing extraordinary discourtesy to shut you out of his life so completely. He doesn't sound very "amazing" to me. Amazing people do not have the people close to them scratching their heads in exasperation at their secretiveness.
Please trust your friends.
posted by jayder at 1:18 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Please trust your friends.
posted by jayder at 1:18 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't get it, can't you just say, "let's go to your place" after whatever activity you guys do next time?
posted by rhizome at 1:18 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 1:18 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a few others have mentioned – have you at least seen photos of his place? Do you know where he lives, as in an address, at least? Y'know, to send cute letters and stuff? Has he mentioned friends, does he share about them spontaneously (like the vast majority of people would, even if they only had few)? Have you seen photos of him with friends? Usually boyfriends share things like that, implicating you in their personal life and such.
I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend.
It's reeeeeaaaaheheheally easy to be adamant that you aren't married or don't have a girlfriend on the side when it means you get to keep the woman you're currently with.
A few details about him. He's brilliant and socially awkward. He tends to be a loner who listens to TED talks on his iPod and paints and reads. I'm a nerdish type, too and understand that he finds social situations awkward. He has met members of my family and although the interactions were pleasant enough, he found them "exhausting".
This is raising some yellow flags for me. Do you know he listens to TED talks, paints and reads because he tells you he does, or because you've seen him do it? Does his "exhaustion" mean that you and he meet up with your family less than you would otherwise? FWIW, I'm a big introvert and even suffer from a bit of PTSD from childhood abuse, my ex-family in law exhausted me (in part because I enjoyed them, though some were a bit weird), and yet I never mentioned it to my boyfriend. Ever. Because they were his family. They meant a lot to him, so I dealt with my introversion and made the most of time with them. (Tangential, but it ended up being great. In fact, my ex-MIL still calls me her daughter, 5 years after I broke up with her son.) It's odd that he's making something of an issue out of your family, though it's hard to tell from your post to what degree he is.
Finally, jeanmari wrote two comments I could have written, word for word:
Been there. He had a parallel life and another girlfriend. But he was SO good at juggling us that my family and friends did not suspect either. I found out accidentally and the resulting mess was worthy of Jerry Springer. Life is too, too, too short to wonder. If he REALLY liked you back? He wouldn't care if you asked him about his family or friends or apartment. Or at least one of those three. If you ask him about this and he gets defensive or in any way suggests that you are being paranoid or not trusting him or being rude for asking? Walk. Away.
FYI? The guy I knew? Kept us both going for almost a year. And I was an highly-educated, confident woman who also happened to be really busy and oversensitive to his feelings about implications he wasn't being trusted. He had been dating the other girl for almost three years (we overlapped during the one, she tried to make it work with him afterwards. I ditched him.)
Mine was much more recent, I ditched him after he phoned the other woman from my place. He claimed he'd "just" started dating her a couple months earlier and it wasn't yet serious. In fact, she'd been his mistress for at least a year, and he'd had a second mistress for three years. In addition to his ex-wife, who he was, in fact, divorcing, but it wasn't finalized yet. Which he'd also (partly) lied about. (The finalization, that is.) He seemed great too. Down-to-earth, sincere, straightforward. Sent me photos of his house. Gave me his address. But never phoned me and felt "awkward" about meeting my friends "because he was introverted and needed time for that sort of thing."
Long story short, you have every right to request to be part of his personal life, since, well, you're part of his personal life.
posted by fraula at 1:28 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend.
It's reeeeeaaaaheheheally easy to be adamant that you aren't married or don't have a girlfriend on the side when it means you get to keep the woman you're currently with.
A few details about him. He's brilliant and socially awkward. He tends to be a loner who listens to TED talks on his iPod and paints and reads. I'm a nerdish type, too and understand that he finds social situations awkward. He has met members of my family and although the interactions were pleasant enough, he found them "exhausting".
This is raising some yellow flags for me. Do you know he listens to TED talks, paints and reads because he tells you he does, or because you've seen him do it? Does his "exhaustion" mean that you and he meet up with your family less than you would otherwise? FWIW, I'm a big introvert and even suffer from a bit of PTSD from childhood abuse, my ex-family in law exhausted me (in part because I enjoyed them, though some were a bit weird), and yet I never mentioned it to my boyfriend. Ever. Because they were his family. They meant a lot to him, so I dealt with my introversion and made the most of time with them. (Tangential, but it ended up being great. In fact, my ex-MIL still calls me her daughter, 5 years after I broke up with her son.) It's odd that he's making something of an issue out of your family, though it's hard to tell from your post to what degree he is.
Finally, jeanmari wrote two comments I could have written, word for word:
Been there. He had a parallel life and another girlfriend. But he was SO good at juggling us that my family and friends did not suspect either. I found out accidentally and the resulting mess was worthy of Jerry Springer. Life is too, too, too short to wonder. If he REALLY liked you back? He wouldn't care if you asked him about his family or friends or apartment. Or at least one of those three. If you ask him about this and he gets defensive or in any way suggests that you are being paranoid or not trusting him or being rude for asking? Walk. Away.
FYI? The guy I knew? Kept us both going for almost a year. And I was an highly-educated, confident woman who also happened to be really busy and oversensitive to his feelings about implications he wasn't being trusted. He had been dating the other girl for almost three years (we overlapped during the one, she tried to make it work with him afterwards. I ditched him.)
Mine was much more recent, I ditched him after he phoned the other woman from my place. He claimed he'd "just" started dating her a couple months earlier and it wasn't yet serious. In fact, she'd been his mistress for at least a year, and he'd had a second mistress for three years. In addition to his ex-wife, who he was, in fact, divorcing, but it wasn't finalized yet. Which he'd also (partly) lied about. (The finalization, that is.) He seemed great too. Down-to-earth, sincere, straightforward. Sent me photos of his house. Gave me his address. But never phoned me and felt "awkward" about meeting my friends "because he was introverted and needed time for that sort of thing."
Long story short, you have every right to request to be part of his personal life, since, well, you're part of his personal life.
posted by fraula at 1:28 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I know two very intelligent, sensitive, and, one might say, nerdy young men who each have very complicated and difficult family responsibilities and sad histories. I am pretty sure five months would not be long enough for them to consider themselves close enough to a woman they really liked to risk revealing the details of their situations. I know that both of them highly value having a close relationship with a woman but have been rejected and unable to join in peer group fun so many times they fear they are ineligible for the mating game. People who have been very hurt and/or saddled with lifelong burdens not of their own making are often very slow to let people in. It's possible your young man has such problems.
This does not mean you shouldn't know some basic information about him. At least find a way to confirm his name, address, date and place of birth and next of kin (and employer, if any). Then if he dies of joy in your arms or he turns out to be bluebeard and you get buried in his dungeon, somebody will know what to do.
posted by Anitanola at 1:30 PM on November 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
This does not mean you shouldn't know some basic information about him. At least find a way to confirm his name, address, date and place of birth and next of kin (and employer, if any). Then if he dies of joy in your arms or he turns out to be bluebeard and you get buried in his dungeon, somebody will know what to do.
posted by Anitanola at 1:30 PM on November 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
Eh. People underestimate just how freaky 'socially awkward' people can be because they judge everyone's behavior by their yardstick of 'normal' (and can you blame them?)... but I speak as someone who's pretty far outside 'normal'. And it sounds like your bf is, too.
So... while I disagree with whoever assumes your guy 'has' to be 'normal' enough to have marriage/adultery as the reason for his reticence, I disagree with you that this is ok regardless.
I mean, it's not a good thing even though I'm pretty sure there's no special reason to think a super-introverted/shut-in type guy would have cheating as his reason for this behavior. But then, being a super-shut-in type guy with such over-the-top boundaries makes him less less than awesome in some ways. Basically, I think you should acknowledge that there's a problem here. He is holding back way too hard, which suggests some major emotional road-blocks. At this point (5 months), I'd feel justified trying a lot harder to bond with him enough for him to trust me. If a socially-awkward nerdy guy doesn't trust his girlfriend after say, half a year, I'd say A Talk is called for. Then again, I'm a person who only feels close to someone that I feel a basic level of trust and comfort with-- which goes both ways-- and the constant reminder I'm not trusted would drive me a bit nuts. I mean, YMMV. Are you comfortable with the lack of closeness at this point? If so, I mean, that's all that counts.
That said, it could easily spell problems for the future of your relationship (his extreme privacy, I mean). I used to be the sort of person who thought I could 'change' this type of guy-- hey, I'm super-nerdy and a social recluse myself, I'm attracted to super-introverts, I like being the only one who's 'special' to my boy and I'm willing to wait and to work for it. (Note: one reason you may not have met his friends is that he has too few friends or none in the area, or he's not really that personal with them either; one reason he may not have taken you home is 'cause it's a pig-sty, as nerdy guys' room so often are). It works great, right? But to continue having relationships to emotionally distant/unavailable guys is no piece of cake, and comes back to bite you in the ass big-time. When push comes to shove and your relationship teeters, they'll disengage rather than push on, 9 out of 10 times, and I'm not willing, personally, to put up with that anymore.
Finally, I'll give you a small personal anecdote: last guy I dated behaved the same way. He was so cute and I liked him a lot (we only dated a little more than a month, though). I was pretty excited. However, we didn't talk about our relationship (and he was sending mucho mixed signals), and he had 'quirks' like not wanting me to come to his apartment and not wanting me to see his feet without socks on. He was super self-conscious and body-conscious and private and dorky and so on, and at first I thought his awkwardness was oh-so-cute. But then finally we did end up in his apartment 'cause we wanted to have sex and I had a guest over in my studio, so we ended up there-- at it was late night, but he wouldn't turn on the light so I wouldn't see too much of it, and I felt guilty(!) because the moonlight filtered in through the window and I kind of saw anyway. I mean, and we used the couch rather than his bed. And I was so hormonal that I kept telling myself this is just a quirk, and hey, I'm private about my home too-- and mine was super-messy and embarrassing!-- but he still came over! And I still let him! But let's just smooth that over, I thought, since he's so cute and I mean, I like him, don't I... even though my friend thought he was kind of a freak, but whatever.
Seem familiar? If so, consider that being cutely dorky and awesome doesn't preclude being a really bad relationship material. Also, on some level it doesn't even matter if he is married-- I mean, there are guys in special circumstances (being separated from their wives) where this would be ok. But there are almost no circumstances where being an emotionally stunted overly-anxious basketcase nerdoid turns out all that well in relationships. Hey, I speak from experience (I probably am one myself, honestly).
posted by reenka at 1:44 PM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
So... while I disagree with whoever assumes your guy 'has' to be 'normal' enough to have marriage/adultery as the reason for his reticence, I disagree with you that this is ok regardless.
I mean, it's not a good thing even though I'm pretty sure there's no special reason to think a super-introverted/shut-in type guy would have cheating as his reason for this behavior. But then, being a super-shut-in type guy with such over-the-top boundaries makes him less less than awesome in some ways. Basically, I think you should acknowledge that there's a problem here. He is holding back way too hard, which suggests some major emotional road-blocks. At this point (5 months), I'd feel justified trying a lot harder to bond with him enough for him to trust me. If a socially-awkward nerdy guy doesn't trust his girlfriend after say, half a year, I'd say A Talk is called for. Then again, I'm a person who only feels close to someone that I feel a basic level of trust and comfort with-- which goes both ways-- and the constant reminder I'm not trusted would drive me a bit nuts. I mean, YMMV. Are you comfortable with the lack of closeness at this point? If so, I mean, that's all that counts.
That said, it could easily spell problems for the future of your relationship (his extreme privacy, I mean). I used to be the sort of person who thought I could 'change' this type of guy-- hey, I'm super-nerdy and a social recluse myself, I'm attracted to super-introverts, I like being the only one who's 'special' to my boy and I'm willing to wait and to work for it. (Note: one reason you may not have met his friends is that he has too few friends or none in the area, or he's not really that personal with them either; one reason he may not have taken you home is 'cause it's a pig-sty, as nerdy guys' room so often are). It works great, right? But to continue having relationships to emotionally distant/unavailable guys is no piece of cake, and comes back to bite you in the ass big-time. When push comes to shove and your relationship teeters, they'll disengage rather than push on, 9 out of 10 times, and I'm not willing, personally, to put up with that anymore.
Finally, I'll give you a small personal anecdote: last guy I dated behaved the same way. He was so cute and I liked him a lot (we only dated a little more than a month, though). I was pretty excited. However, we didn't talk about our relationship (and he was sending mucho mixed signals), and he had 'quirks' like not wanting me to come to his apartment and not wanting me to see his feet without socks on. He was super self-conscious and body-conscious and private and dorky and so on, and at first I thought his awkwardness was oh-so-cute. But then finally we did end up in his apartment 'cause we wanted to have sex and I had a guest over in my studio, so we ended up there-- at it was late night, but he wouldn't turn on the light so I wouldn't see too much of it, and I felt guilty(!) because the moonlight filtered in through the window and I kind of saw anyway. I mean, and we used the couch rather than his bed. And I was so hormonal that I kept telling myself this is just a quirk, and hey, I'm private about my home too-- and mine was super-messy and embarrassing!-- but he still came over! And I still let him! But let's just smooth that over, I thought, since he's so cute and I mean, I like him, don't I... even though my friend thought he was kind of a freak, but whatever.
Seem familiar? If so, consider that being cutely dorky and awesome doesn't preclude being a really bad relationship material. Also, on some level it doesn't even matter if he is married-- I mean, there are guys in special circumstances (being separated from their wives) where this would be ok. But there are almost no circumstances where being an emotionally stunted overly-anxious basketcase nerdoid turns out all that well in relationships. Hey, I speak from experience (I probably am one myself, honestly).
posted by reenka at 1:44 PM on November 5, 2011 [5 favorites]
Okay, I'm outing myself as the OP and hoping anyone who knows me IRL misses this post. There's, of course, a lot of detail missing from the original post.
1) We are not young people, I'm in my forties and he's in his fifties. The family member he met was my 18 year old daughter and he's nice with her and helped her move recently, so he doesn't avoid her or anything. I'm divorced, he's never been married.
2) I'm in school, studying philosophy, and he likes to come over and debate about it with me. ie) we don't just have sex, sometimes we just hang out and talk or play backgammon, and I like having someone to bounce ideas off of. The sexual part of our relationship is also really great, though.
3) He told me right from the get go that he had trouble opening up emotionally. His parents both died, fairly closely together, and he nursed his mother through end stage esophegeal cancer. He has started opening up about his feelings about this, tells me how much he misses his mother and so on. I'm prepared for this to be a process, he's been up front about this and I'm touched that he is as open with me as he is. We had a conversation recently where I said I loved my best friend, because if there were ever a crisis, she would jump on the first plane to help, as would I for her. He said he had no friend in his life like that, so I think he holds everyone at a distance, not just me.
4) He talks freely about the people he knows and his family. He tells me a lot how he wants to make me happy, and, indeed, being with him does make me really happy.
5) I've been to his studio, but not his home and he never sleeps over here. This is the one thing that does bother me the most. I like sleeping beside someone I care for.
6) I'm not really a "normal" kind of person myself and I see him as being very much like me in some ways. He's really a different kind of person that I like precisely because he's so different, not in spite of it.
I am willing to be patient and careful with this person because I think he's worth it. I will keep my friends' advice in mind and I will be careful with my heart, because I don't want to be hurt. I want to trust him, so I will.
I appreciate all the input. I realize how dodgy it seems and seeing some of the responses really brought that home in a very direct way.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 2:19 PM on November 5, 2011
1) We are not young people, I'm in my forties and he's in his fifties. The family member he met was my 18 year old daughter and he's nice with her and helped her move recently, so he doesn't avoid her or anything. I'm divorced, he's never been married.
2) I'm in school, studying philosophy, and he likes to come over and debate about it with me. ie) we don't just have sex, sometimes we just hang out and talk or play backgammon, and I like having someone to bounce ideas off of. The sexual part of our relationship is also really great, though.
3) He told me right from the get go that he had trouble opening up emotionally. His parents both died, fairly closely together, and he nursed his mother through end stage esophegeal cancer. He has started opening up about his feelings about this, tells me how much he misses his mother and so on. I'm prepared for this to be a process, he's been up front about this and I'm touched that he is as open with me as he is. We had a conversation recently where I said I loved my best friend, because if there were ever a crisis, she would jump on the first plane to help, as would I for her. He said he had no friend in his life like that, so I think he holds everyone at a distance, not just me.
4) He talks freely about the people he knows and his family. He tells me a lot how he wants to make me happy, and, indeed, being with him does make me really happy.
5) I've been to his studio, but not his home and he never sleeps over here. This is the one thing that does bother me the most. I like sleeping beside someone I care for.
6) I'm not really a "normal" kind of person myself and I see him as being very much like me in some ways. He's really a different kind of person that I like precisely because he's so different, not in spite of it.
I am willing to be patient and careful with this person because I think he's worth it. I will keep my friends' advice in mind and I will be careful with my heart, because I don't want to be hurt. I want to trust him, so I will.
I appreciate all the input. I realize how dodgy it seems and seeing some of the responses really brought that home in a very direct way.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 2:19 PM on November 5, 2011
OP, I understand your feelings here. But he never sleeps over, on top of all the other question marks? I think wanting to trust someone as an act of love is perfectly valid. But when making the choice to trust that person without having answers to a lot of questions means compromising attention to your personal safety/well-being, and making yourself vulnerable to someone who deliberately conceals large swathes of his life? That turns into caring for him at the cost of not caring for yourself. That also turns into settling for a relationship that sounds like it is not meeting all of your needs.
If he isn't married, he is hiding something else that he doesn't want you to find out. Be careful. If you were my sister, I would be circling the wagons for a family intervention. Yes, really. The people who love you care about your happiness, and if they're all warning you about this guy, that means that their concern is strong enough to override that desire to see you happy with someone you care about. Pretty strong stuff. Please be careful and put your own safety and emotional well-being first.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:34 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
If he isn't married, he is hiding something else that he doesn't want you to find out. Be careful. If you were my sister, I would be circling the wagons for a family intervention. Yes, really. The people who love you care about your happiness, and if they're all warning you about this guy, that means that their concern is strong enough to override that desire to see you happy with someone you care about. Pretty strong stuff. Please be careful and put your own safety and emotional well-being first.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:34 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Since you said that his parents died, it could be:
A. He has no other family members that he is close to. If my immediate family died (including grandmother and close aunt) I probably wouldn't talk to the rest of my family for years, if ever.
B. He doesn't have any other friends or many close friends (this is a possibility) -- also introducing you to a friend may leave conversation awkward or strained.
C. He's ashamed of his place or his place is uncomfortable. I've known people for four years who haven't seen where I live and I have no intentions of showing them unless I move.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 2:35 PM on November 5, 2011
A. He has no other family members that he is close to. If my immediate family died (including grandmother and close aunt) I probably wouldn't talk to the rest of my family for years, if ever.
B. He doesn't have any other friends or many close friends (this is a possibility) -- also introducing you to a friend may leave conversation awkward or strained.
C. He's ashamed of his place or his place is uncomfortable. I've known people for four years who haven't seen where I live and I have no intentions of showing them unless I move.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 2:35 PM on November 5, 2011
"1) We are not young people,"
Sure you are, sweetie! I think it might be the sadness and responsibility. As for the house, maybe his mom's stuff is still everywhere and he's not able yet to clear it away.
posted by Anitanola at 2:38 PM on November 5, 2011
Sure you are, sweetie! I think it might be the sadness and responsibility. As for the house, maybe his mom's stuff is still everywhere and he's not able yet to clear it away.
posted by Anitanola at 2:38 PM on November 5, 2011
Thank you for the update alltomorrowsparties.
There is one point that I would still like to bring up to you. All of the reasons that you have presents us to explain his decisions are perfectly logical, however, they still do not change the fact that you:
1) Have not seen his home.
2) Have not met any of his friends.
I understand your desire to be careful, I really do. I have been there in the past and I know how challenging it can be to be in a positions where you are having to forgo basic relationship perks to suit your partner's issues. Yet, you need to keep in mind that waiting for him to open up enough to bring you into his life will not guarantee that he will ever actually allow you there, no matter how nice he may be. Right now you are merely hearing the details (the ones that he has chosen to reveal) of his life, but you are not actually integrated in it the same way that he is integrated in yours.
Waiting may never change this. Your constant allowance for this is just reenforcing a habit of you being OK with this level of separation. At some point, his excuses may not be sufficient for you to continue to be in a satisfactory relationship with him. My point being, how long do you plan to let his excuses (as logical as they may be) substitute for action and integration? Because there is a good chance that the situation will not change without you actively requesting it.
Our actions teach people how to treat us. What are your actions teaching him about how you would like this relationship to go?
posted by Shouraku at 2:41 PM on November 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
There is one point that I would still like to bring up to you. All of the reasons that you have presents us to explain his decisions are perfectly logical, however, they still do not change the fact that you:
1) Have not seen his home.
2) Have not met any of his friends.
I understand your desire to be careful, I really do. I have been there in the past and I know how challenging it can be to be in a positions where you are having to forgo basic relationship perks to suit your partner's issues. Yet, you need to keep in mind that waiting for him to open up enough to bring you into his life will not guarantee that he will ever actually allow you there, no matter how nice he may be. Right now you are merely hearing the details (the ones that he has chosen to reveal) of his life, but you are not actually integrated in it the same way that he is integrated in yours.
Waiting may never change this. Your constant allowance for this is just reenforcing a habit of you being OK with this level of separation. At some point, his excuses may not be sufficient for you to continue to be in a satisfactory relationship with him. My point being, how long do you plan to let his excuses (as logical as they may be) substitute for action and integration? Because there is a good chance that the situation will not change without you actively requesting it.
Our actions teach people how to treat us. What are your actions teaching him about how you would like this relationship to go?
posted by Shouraku at 2:41 PM on November 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
Hello dear!
DTMFA. You are beautiful and fine and desirable and you can do SO much better.
This guy has such Aspergersy shit going on? No. If you push him he will either do what is required or split up with you. Either will resolve the situation.
Confronting him may be scary but it is not bad.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:43 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
DTMFA. You are beautiful and fine and desirable and you can do SO much better.
This guy has such Aspergersy shit going on? No. If you push him he will either do what is required or split up with you. Either will resolve the situation.
Confronting him may be scary but it is not bad.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:43 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
OP, he's never spent a full night with you, even at your place? Ever?
Even when you've communicated how much you'd like him to?
Unless he has a CPAP or a dog or a princess to drive home from the ball, and a 100% rational explanation for why you can't help him make accommodations for those needs/responsibilities for even one night, that data point alone would make me very very uncomfortable.
posted by argonauta at 2:44 PM on November 5, 2011 [18 favorites]
Even when you've communicated how much you'd like him to?
Unless he has a CPAP or a dog or a princess to drive home from the ball, and a 100% rational explanation for why you can't help him make accommodations for those needs/responsibilities for even one night, that data point alone would make me very very uncomfortable.
posted by argonauta at 2:44 PM on November 5, 2011 [18 favorites]
Oh! I forgot.
I have something important to say!
Being not normal does not preclude you from basic civility!
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:48 PM on November 5, 2011 [17 favorites]
I have something important to say!
Being not normal does not preclude you from basic civility!
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:48 PM on November 5, 2011 [17 favorites]
I guess my other concern is that he is comfortable seeing you on his schedule and being emotionally intimate with you,but has never introduced you to anyone he knows or slept over. So, social awkwardness issues aside, if he isn't married...why is he trying to hide you and keep you isolated from his life outside of those visits? Is he ashamed of you? Does he pretend to be single? You called him your boyfriend; does he call you his girlfriend to others?
I think you deserve to know what his motivations are for this kind of secrecy and compartmentalization.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:50 PM on November 5, 2011
I think you deserve to know what his motivations are for this kind of secrecy and compartmentalization.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:50 PM on November 5, 2011
Sorry, when issue emotionally intimate, I meant physically intimate. Bah! I'll stop posting now.
posted by anonnymoose at 3:02 PM on November 5, 2011
posted by anonnymoose at 3:02 PM on November 5, 2011
"... you deserve to know what his motivations are for this kind of secrecy and compartmentalization." Really, really, really. Right now, he's in one kind of relationship and you're in another. You are not in a relationship together. Getting to that will take some work and he may not want to do his share.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 3:03 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Lesser Shrew at 3:03 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wow, meet his friends, see his house. What does he have to hide from you, his girlfriend of five months? Are all of his friends neo-nazis? Does he live in a trash can? Shouldn't you know these things by now?
posted by oceanjesse at 3:10 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 3:10 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hi alltomorrowsparties: there's one question people have asked that you haven't answered and that I think would tell us a lot -- has he told you where he lives? Have you asked and he has evaded? Whether or not he's married, his hiding that info from you would be a huge red flag in my book.
(Maybe his secret is that he's poor. Does the studio have a cot?)
(But be aware that if that is the case, there's always the chance that he's poor and married.)
posted by imalaowai at 3:24 PM on November 5, 2011
(Maybe his secret is that he's poor. Does the studio have a cot?)
(But be aware that if that is the case, there's always the chance that he's poor and married.)
posted by imalaowai at 3:24 PM on November 5, 2011
My long-term partner is a very weird dude. Very few friends, very small (and weird) family. Many of my friends think he is a pathological nutcase. But after seven years (on Tuesday) I think it's safe to say he's not.
The problem with HIS apartment, btw, is that it is really messy, as in, TV exposé messy. Ockham's razor would suggest MESS as a real possibility for your BF's housing situation. I think it was, no joke, a year and a half till I saw his place.
Trust your instincts. Be safe. All that. But if your instincts tell you that he's a good guy with some real, but not sociopathic, problems, then DON'T let your friends tell you what you should and should not be OK with.
posted by skbw at 3:42 PM on November 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
The problem with HIS apartment, btw, is that it is really messy, as in, TV exposé messy. Ockham's razor would suggest MESS as a real possibility for your BF's housing situation. I think it was, no joke, a year and a half till I saw his place.
Trust your instincts. Be safe. All that. But if your instincts tell you that he's a good guy with some real, but not sociopathic, problems, then DON'T let your friends tell you what you should and should not be OK with.
posted by skbw at 3:42 PM on November 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Look: I'm a weird guy too, in a lot of the ways you describe: artsy, awkward, embarrassingly messy in my living habits, slow to open up to new people. But when my ex said "Hey, why do we never spend any time at your place?" I still invited her over a few times. It felt weird and embarrassing and it was not my favorite thing to do, but I did it anyway, because I wanted her to feel welcome — and, yeah, because I realized it would look a little creepy if I refused, and I liked her and wanted to make it clear to her that I wasn't up to anything creepy.
Even us weirdos have to adapt and compromise occasionally. Personal weirdness can totally be a valid excuse for all sorts of things. But complete and total inflexibility is not one of them. If he consistently refuses to do anything that would show you even a little sliver of his personal life, even though you've let him know that a gesture like that would be really important to you, then yeah, you've got a problem. Either he's married or he doesn't know how to compromise. Those are both equally bad qualities in a boyfriend.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:30 PM on November 5, 2011 [24 favorites]
Even us weirdos have to adapt and compromise occasionally. Personal weirdness can totally be a valid excuse for all sorts of things. But complete and total inflexibility is not one of them. If he consistently refuses to do anything that would show you even a little sliver of his personal life, even though you've let him know that a gesture like that would be really important to you, then yeah, you've got a problem. Either he's married or he doesn't know how to compromise. Those are both equally bad qualities in a boyfriend.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:30 PM on November 5, 2011 [24 favorites]
I mean, okay, if you can't see his house or meet his friends, can you at least go to a gallery opening of his (if he's a working artist)? Or stop by his place of employment (if he's got a day job instead/also)? Or present yourself as "in a relationship" online? Or go on a weekend trip together? Or do anything that breaks the Total Compartmentalization thing he's got going on at the moment?
Maybe you don't want to press him on the house thing or the friends thing. But if he's a great guy, not married, and really likes you, then surely there's some sign he's not keeping a secret that he can bring himself to give you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:44 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Maybe you don't want to press him on the house thing or the friends thing. But if he's a great guy, not married, and really likes you, then surely there's some sign he's not keeping a secret that he can bring himself to give you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:44 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not normal. Something's up, and you should find out what it is before you get more involved.
posted by Miko at 4:59 PM on November 5, 2011
posted by Miko at 4:59 PM on November 5, 2011
Call him some day, impromptu, when you know he'll be around work friends (or people who WOULD know about another life if he has one) and tell him you're in the neighborhood and popping by. If he freaks the fuck out, I think you have your answer, the guy is hiding something that's a dealbreaker.
posted by jayder at 5:26 PM on November 5, 2011
posted by jayder at 5:26 PM on November 5, 2011
Well, I'm back in the thread again after going out shopping. Yes, I've asked where he lives; he has a room mate and apparently it's very awkward between them at the moment, as in passive-aggressive post-it's awkward. I know what neighbourhood but not an address. He tried to sleep over once but ended leaving at about 5am, because apparently I snore and he can only sleep on a really hard futon. He's self employed and works alone. I have the number of his work, but it's his cell phone. He does voice call me but I hate talking on the phone with him so I don't call him. We text back and forth during the day most days. Oddly, given his privacy issues, he seems quite comfortable dropping by here unannounced and touching my private stuff (my laptop, I'm really not happy with anyone touching it, but I let him run Grooveshark and stuff). I really believe him, he's very genuine and I'm going to try broaching something tonight, GoG, I want to trust him, that's not a bad thing, I think the amount he has opened to me is, in fact, an extraordinary amount for him. Oh, he always spends Saturday nights with me.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 5:45 PM on November 5, 2011
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 5:45 PM on November 5, 2011
He tried to sleep over once but ended leaving at about 5am
This is a really strong piece of the evidence for the 'already committed' theory, unfortunately.
I have the number of his work, but it's his cell phone.
Also pretty lame.
I think you have to work a lot harder to believe that he's not married (or otherwise involved, or otherwise lying to you about his private life) than that he is.
posted by Miko at 6:03 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
This is a really strong piece of the evidence for the 'already committed' theory, unfortunately.
I have the number of his work, but it's his cell phone.
Also pretty lame.
I think you have to work a lot harder to believe that he's not married (or otherwise involved, or otherwise lying to you about his private life) than that he is.
posted by Miko at 6:03 PM on November 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
Mentioning that he has roommate changes things, especially if they're not getting along or never really have. Have you met his roommate and would it happen to be a female? Still a bit strange, both in him not having you over at all and you not really pushing the issue. But hey, all couples have some strangeness to them.
Suggestions for him spending the night: you two go shopping for a hard futon. Put it in your living room or other room in your home. That way he's still there there, but not bothered by your snoring. No, it's not the same, but he can come snuggle with you in the morning or ya'll can have breakfast in pajamas, etc, etc. Or get a box ofBreathe Right Strips, see how that goes.
If you get the futon, try sleeping on it when he's not there, see if it's comfortable for you. Obviously all of those suggestions are tiny steps to the goal of you two being able to sleep in the same bed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:03 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Suggestions for him spending the night: you two go shopping for a hard futon. Put it in your living room or other room in your home. That way he's still there there, but not bothered by your snoring. No, it's not the same, but he can come snuggle with you in the morning or ya'll can have breakfast in pajamas, etc, etc. Or get a box ofBreathe Right Strips, see how that goes.
If you get the futon, try sleeping on it when he's not there, see if it's comfortable for you. Obviously all of those suggestions are tiny steps to the goal of you two being able to sleep in the same bed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:03 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Okay, look. I've had some unbelievably awkward roommate situations. None have been so awkward that my girlfriend and my roommate couldn't be in the same room for five minutes. And, lemme reiterate, I'm a socially awkward anxiety-prone weirdo with privacy issues and a natural tendency to keep my life pretty damn compartmentalized.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [12 favorites]
Here's what bugs me: this is a grown man who is in his fifties. He's not a young man still getting to know himself and finding his place in the world. He's smart enough to listen to TED talks but not aware enough to realize that your need to be part of HIS life should trump his discomfort at you seeing his abode or meeting his circle of family and friends? I can't fathom how a fifty something man is placing these weird personal limits above YOUR comfort ... Essentially placing himself above you in a situation where he could so easily be more open and generous.
I see this more and more on Metafilter, where people's vaguely defined needs for comfort are treated almost as disabilities that present insuperable obstacles to their satisfying the legitimate needs of those close to then. It's annoying from an adult of any age, but it verges on pathetic when it's a fiftysomething man.
posted by jayder at 6:09 PM on November 5, 2011 [16 favorites]
I see this more and more on Metafilter, where people's vaguely defined needs for comfort are treated almost as disabilities that present insuperable obstacles to their satisfying the legitimate needs of those close to then. It's annoying from an adult of any age, but it verges on pathetic when it's a fiftysomething man.
posted by jayder at 6:09 PM on November 5, 2011 [16 favorites]
None of the facts you have added to this thread have made this situation seem less awkward or incriminating, to an objective outside observer. In fact, nearly every fact you have added has made it seem more so. I'm sorry.
None of us know whether he's married, lying, just inconsiderate, etc. But respectfully, you seem locked-into continuing to place faith in his behavior. It does seem like you're making a genuine effort to listen to other perspectives, it just doesn't seem like you're being very successful in that regard. Good luck, and I hope that neither of you end up getting hurt.
posted by red clover at 6:13 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
None of us know whether he's married, lying, just inconsiderate, etc. But respectfully, you seem locked-into continuing to place faith in his behavior. It does seem like you're making a genuine effort to listen to other perspectives, it just doesn't seem like you're being very successful in that regard. Good luck, and I hope that neither of you end up getting hurt.
posted by red clover at 6:13 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I guess the important question here is not really "is he married or just weird," but "where do you, OP, want this relationship to go?" If it never changed, would you continue to be happy? Do you see yourself as the emotional savior, patiently wearing down his defenses until he lets someone - you - in for the first time? How long are you willing to play that game? Are your needs being met? Is this what you hope for in a partner (you've as much as said no a few times and mentioned a few specific things that you find unsatisfying)? What is your future together? Would you be happy with this arrangement a year from now? Five years in? What are your expectations for the milestones in a relationship? Chances are they're not crazy, and that you will be able to easily articulate them, setting aside the context of this particular relationship.And you don't want to push further because you're afraid of losing him?
What exactly would you be losing? Because whatever it is, it doesn't seem like you have it right now, or stand to gain it. So it's kind of impossible to lose.
posted by Miko at 6:19 PM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
What exactly would you be losing? Because whatever it is, it doesn't seem like you have it right now, or stand to gain it. So it's kind of impossible to lose.
posted by Miko at 6:19 PM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
Roommate? I thought the hand had possibilities but after being dealt this card, I would be inclined to fold. I have a hard time believing in heretofore unknown and still unseen roommates. Beyond a certain point they seem entirely too euphemistic. I hope he can salvage this relationship with you but it's certainly not looking good.
posted by Anitanola at 7:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Anitanola at 7:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
OP, I accidentally read something Miko wrote above as meaning, "Sounds like you are working harder than even he is to convince yourself he's not hiding something from you"
Even though that is not what Miko wrote, my take kinda fits the situation, yes?
After your update, I'm with your friends and family on this (it really seems like he's living with someone, or maybe they broke up but still live together? There's something there. Your friends and family are correct.
That said, like many above, I also think the bigger question is why do you want to sublimate your needs for someone who shares so little and is clearly capable of giving so little.
posted by jbenben at 7:30 PM on November 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Even though that is not what Miko wrote, my take kinda fits the situation, yes?
After your update, I'm with your friends and family on this (it really seems like he's living with someone, or maybe they broke up but still live together? There's something there. Your friends and family are correct.
That said, like many above, I also think the bigger question is why do you want to sublimate your needs for someone who shares so little and is clearly capable of giving so little.
posted by jbenben at 7:30 PM on November 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
The dude comes over unannounced and uses your stuff? Hmm, red flag to me.
Are you sure he's not homeless and is living at his office?
Also... Have you run his name through a sex offender registry?
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:32 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are you sure he's not homeless and is living at his office?
Also... Have you run his name through a sex offender registry?
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:32 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Perhaps he is not married but he is actively dating numerous women that he meets on dating sites? Perhaps one of the women habitually stops by his apartment so he can't risk having you there?
I'm very disturbed by your disclosure that he stops by your place unannounced. Come on ... surely you can see that this is absurd. Anyone with his inflexible boundary issues would surely not grant himself the privilege of stopping by your place unannounced, when you've never ever been to his place. His work phone is only a cell phone? His relations with his roommate are so strained that it prevents you from ever setting foot in his home? These excuses are waaaaaaay too convenient and makes it seems almost certain that he's hiding something pretty bad.
posted by jayder at 7:37 PM on November 5, 2011 [9 favorites]
I'm very disturbed by your disclosure that he stops by your place unannounced. Come on ... surely you can see that this is absurd. Anyone with his inflexible boundary issues would surely not grant himself the privilege of stopping by your place unannounced, when you've never ever been to his place. His work phone is only a cell phone? His relations with his roommate are so strained that it prevents you from ever setting foot in his home? These excuses are waaaaaaay too convenient and makes it seems almost certain that he's hiding something pretty bad.
posted by jayder at 7:37 PM on November 5, 2011 [9 favorites]
Emotionally hidden hoarder and awfully ashamed of it -- you've watched some hoarders episodes, right? It's an addiction -- they're as ashamed as if they were a crack-head, and as shy about letting anyone know about it.
Just my gut take on it, is all.
I sure could be wrong, there sure are people out there who can compartmentalize their lives all to hell, great actors, slippery characters, people who are just big gamers. I hope he's not one of them.
Regardless what it is, you've got to find out or get out -- too many people in your life and too many sharp people here are way antsy about it, lotsa flags of every color flying around.
Get down to brass tacks -- see his place, from the inside, where he lives.
Good luck.
posted by dancestoblue at 8:22 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Just my gut take on it, is all.
I sure could be wrong, there sure are people out there who can compartmentalize their lives all to hell, great actors, slippery characters, people who are just big gamers. I hope he's not one of them.
Regardless what it is, you've got to find out or get out -- too many people in your life and too many sharp people here are way antsy about it, lotsa flags of every color flying around.
Get down to brass tacks -- see his place, from the inside, where he lives.
Good luck.
posted by dancestoblue at 8:22 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
My husband was never at my old apartment until he helped me pack my things to move into his place. No big deal.
He did meet my family and friends very early on, though.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:01 PM on November 5, 2011
He did meet my family and friends very early on, though.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:01 PM on November 5, 2011
So, suppose he is married. There's something morally wrong with this, but it also means there are really awful practical limitations to your relationship. You don't get to ever see his place. You'll always have limited contact with him. He'll never (or rarely) be able to stay the night with you. There will be secrets and elements of his life and personality you will never, ever know about. He'll never open himself up to you completely. That's what it's like to be in a relationship with a married man.
Now, suppose he isn't married. Phew -- those moral issues have cleared up! However, everything else about your relationship remains exactly the same.
You're distracting yourself by focusing on whether or not he's married. The real issue, I think, is that you're not happy about some aspects of your relationship, and he's not really doing any work to meet your needs. Maybe it's because he's married, maybe he's a hoarder, maybe he's just weird, maybe he's an alien who's secretly trying to learn about humanity through both experimenting with romantic relationships and listening to TED talks. Does the reason really matter, when the result's the same?
posted by meese at 11:53 PM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
Now, suppose he isn't married. Phew -- those moral issues have cleared up! However, everything else about your relationship remains exactly the same.
You're distracting yourself by focusing on whether or not he's married. The real issue, I think, is that you're not happy about some aspects of your relationship, and he's not really doing any work to meet your needs. Maybe it's because he's married, maybe he's a hoarder, maybe he's just weird, maybe he's an alien who's secretly trying to learn about humanity through both experimenting with romantic relationships and listening to TED talks. Does the reason really matter, when the result's the same?
posted by meese at 11:53 PM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]
When someone in my life starts giving me a sketchy vibe, my first stop is the website for my county court.
You're in British Columbia, yes? If I were you, I'd go ahead and look him up in the provincial court's online record system. Here you go.
Note that failing to find something on him is not a guarantee that he's not in some way sketchy-- but you may find a big pile of weird landlord-tenant stuff (which could be indicative of hoarding), or nuisance abatement orders, or bad debts, or DUIs, or (heaven forfend) restraining orders. You need and deserve to know about that kind of thing, if it's there. Some of the sketchy folk in my life have proved to possess rather extensive court files, and knowing about that stuff has helped me make good decisions about how to deal with them.
Pay attention to the parties to any filings you find. You may find things that hint at the presence of a current or former spouse. In the US, checking property records and financial filings can help turn that sort of up, too-- but I don't know how any of that works in Canada.
You will probably feel like a horrid, creepy stalker when you first enter his name in the search field. Let that go. If your worries are such that you're asking for advice from us, your international cadre of imaginary internet friends, then your worries are significant enough to justify recourse to the public record. (Especially given the fact that as of this writing, more than 50% of the answerers are telling you that you have cause to be curious, if not seriously concerned.) The record is PUBLIC, after all.
Best of luck. I really hope that your guy turns out to have a nothing more than an advanced case of Awkward and not a hidden marriage or the like.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:23 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're in British Columbia, yes? If I were you, I'd go ahead and look him up in the provincial court's online record system. Here you go.
Note that failing to find something on him is not a guarantee that he's not in some way sketchy-- but you may find a big pile of weird landlord-tenant stuff (which could be indicative of hoarding), or nuisance abatement orders, or bad debts, or DUIs, or (heaven forfend) restraining orders. You need and deserve to know about that kind of thing, if it's there. Some of the sketchy folk in my life have proved to possess rather extensive court files, and knowing about that stuff has helped me make good decisions about how to deal with them.
Pay attention to the parties to any filings you find. You may find things that hint at the presence of a current or former spouse. In the US, checking property records and financial filings can help turn that sort of up, too-- but I don't know how any of that works in Canada.
You will probably feel like a horrid, creepy stalker when you first enter his name in the search field. Let that go. If your worries are such that you're asking for advice from us, your international cadre of imaginary internet friends, then your worries are significant enough to justify recourse to the public record. (Especially given the fact that as of this writing, more than 50% of the answerers are telling you that you have cause to be curious, if not seriously concerned.) The record is PUBLIC, after all.
Best of luck. I really hope that your guy turns out to have a nothing more than an advanced case of Awkward and not a hidden marriage or the like.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:23 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're sharing a lot more of your life with him than he is with you. It seems to be an imbalance that has been acceptable to both of you and maybe shouldn't be? The center line is so far back that it's become a matter of "'forcing' him to open up" rather than gently trying to even how much each of you is giving of yourself.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:32 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by iamkimiam at 2:32 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
As best I can tell, here are the data points that seem to be consistent with someone who is in another relationship:
- He has never spent a full night with you
- He has never spent a full night with you even though his current living situation involves a very awkward, passive-aggressive non-friend
- He has never introduced you to any roommate, friend, acquaintance, colleague, family member, favorite barista/bartender/server, etc.
- He has never let you see his home or told you where it is
- You have a "fairly structured" set of times you see one another
- He calls you but you do not call him
- He has asserted firm boundaries regarding his own privacy, but "is quite comfortable" demonstrating a lack of concern about yours (e.g., unannounced visits, laptop)
- He withholds his emotions and ensures that you know this about him
- He wants to limit the time he has to spend with your daughter and your friends
- He professes to be "socially awkward" but has a roommate rather than living alone (even in his 50s), and has a job that would typically rely on the ability to build and maintain client relationships, do his own sales and PR, etc..
- "He tells me a lot how he wants to make me happy" + "I like sleeping beside someone I care for" =/= even occasional sleepovers, mattress preference or snoring notwithstanding
- Even the people in your life who know that you are "not normal" are wary for you about his "not normal" personality and behavior
- You are more trusting than other people
And here are the data points that *don't* seem to be consistent with someone who is in another relationship:
- He's "an unusual kind of guy in a lot of ways"
- He has a standing Saturday evening date with you
- He says he's not.
Of course none of us can know what's really happening. We just want you to be the best possible advocate for yourself, and I think a very fair exchange for your being "careful and patient" with him is for him to be not just willing but enthusiastic about doing whatever it takes to put your mind at ease about a set of circumstances that would make any reasonable person very, very wary.
posted by argonauta at 5:49 AM on November 6, 2011 [7 favorites]
- He has never spent a full night with you
- He has never spent a full night with you even though his current living situation involves a very awkward, passive-aggressive non-friend
- He has never introduced you to any roommate, friend, acquaintance, colleague, family member, favorite barista/bartender/server, etc.
- He has never let you see his home or told you where it is
- You have a "fairly structured" set of times you see one another
- He calls you but you do not call him
- He has asserted firm boundaries regarding his own privacy, but "is quite comfortable" demonstrating a lack of concern about yours (e.g., unannounced visits, laptop)
- He withholds his emotions and ensures that you know this about him
- He wants to limit the time he has to spend with your daughter and your friends
- He professes to be "socially awkward" but has a roommate rather than living alone (even in his 50s), and has a job that would typically rely on the ability to build and maintain client relationships, do his own sales and PR, etc..
- "He tells me a lot how he wants to make me happy" + "I like sleeping beside someone I care for" =/= even occasional sleepovers, mattress preference or snoring notwithstanding
- Even the people in your life who know that you are "not normal" are wary for you about his "not normal" personality and behavior
- You are more trusting than other people
And here are the data points that *don't* seem to be consistent with someone who is in another relationship:
- He's "an unusual kind of guy in a lot of ways"
- He has a standing Saturday evening date with you
- He says he's not.
Of course none of us can know what's really happening. We just want you to be the best possible advocate for yourself, and I think a very fair exchange for your being "careful and patient" with him is for him to be not just willing but enthusiastic about doing whatever it takes to put your mind at ease about a set of circumstances that would make any reasonable person very, very wary.
posted by argonauta at 5:49 AM on November 6, 2011 [7 favorites]
Review everything argonauta has listed and ask yourself if you would be happy to hear that your daughter was in such a relationship.
I think you are misleading yourself with the concept of trust. Trust is earned. Trust is built over time through experiences that reassure you, usually with concrete evidence, that the other person is indeed doing/not doing what they say they are. This man is asking you for the kind of blind trust a small child gives. You are an adult, you have rights.
posted by uans at 8:51 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think you are misleading yourself with the concept of trust. Trust is earned. Trust is built over time through experiences that reassure you, usually with concrete evidence, that the other person is indeed doing/not doing what they say they are. This man is asking you for the kind of blind trust a small child gives. You are an adult, you have rights.
posted by uans at 8:51 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I've been there, and I think the best way to deal with things is to let him know that the rest of your life is getting weird as a consequence. Not that you're so insistent on making bigger inroads into his life, but that to all outward appearances things are getting strange. In my case, the guy definitely wasn't married/cheating, just uncomfortable with letting different parts of his life collide. It can be a huge roadblock further down the line, so you might as well deal with it now.
I also think the bigger question is why do you want to sublimate your needs for someone who shares so little and is clearly capable of giving so little.
This, this, this. He's asking a lot of you, whether he knows it or not, by making you date him under an ostracizing set of rules. It should not be anathema for you to ask a little of him.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:53 AM on November 6, 2011
I also think the bigger question is why do you want to sublimate your needs for someone who shares so little and is clearly capable of giving so little.
This, this, this. He's asking a lot of you, whether he knows it or not, by making you date him under an ostracizing set of rules. It should not be anathema for you to ask a little of him.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:53 AM on November 6, 2011
I should also add that when I was in a similar situation, it had many of the hallmarks of emotional manipulation/gaslighting. Obviously you know your relationship better than I do, but the feeling of being alone in a bubble with someone can stifle your instincts about relationships. By the time I broke up with him, I felt as though I had been living underwater with someone for two years.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:57 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by stoneandstar at 8:57 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
The vast majority of objective strangers on the internet seem to agree with the vast majority of your friends seem to be in agreement that something fishy is going on with your beau. I also agree with the commenters who say that you don't want to admit something is wrong somewhere.
My piece of advise is stop thinking there is such a thing as 'normal' and 'not-normal' or 'weird'. Those aren't excuses for behavior, those are cultural things and are not objective; they are more based on your assumptions and desires than they are excuses or explanations for behavior. When you stop back in the thread to excuse his behavior some more, try not using the word "normal" in any sort of context.
Most importantly, how serious are you about this guy? Remember, a family is only as healthy as the sickest member.
posted by fuq at 1:18 PM on November 6, 2011
My piece of advise is stop thinking there is such a thing as 'normal' and 'not-normal' or 'weird'. Those aren't excuses for behavior, those are cultural things and are not objective; they are more based on your assumptions and desires than they are excuses or explanations for behavior. When you stop back in the thread to excuse his behavior some more, try not using the word "normal" in any sort of context.
Most importantly, how serious are you about this guy? Remember, a family is only as healthy as the sickest member.
posted by fuq at 1:18 PM on November 6, 2011
Again, I appreciate all the input and I understand what people are saying. In all modesty, I will add that I don't lack for attention from the opposite sex, it's not like I feel I have no other romantic options. It's just so damned rare for me to meet anyone that I really like. And, apart from the mysterious behaviour, I really like this man. I like the time we spend together, I like talking with him, I like kissing him, I like being around him. I'm not excusing his behaviour, I know it's not really fair.
I started out in this thread, upon my original post, feeling like the issue was dealing with the negative talk from friends, regarding his marital status. As I said, I trust him when he tells me he's not married or in a relationship. Now I just feel sad, because I'm discussing someone that I really like and people think he's a terrible person and I'm foolish, regardless of whether or not he is attached. He's not a terrible person (although I certainly may be foolish). He is principled, kind and tolerant, intelligent and hard-working, loyal to his friends, and honourable in his conduct. He has been good to his family, and he has helped me out when I needed it. He thinks I'm wonderful, and rare and good and he tells me so. No other person I have dated has made me feel so good. So, when you ask how serious I am, I have no expectations of the man, but yes, I have love in my heart for him.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 2:36 PM on November 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
I started out in this thread, upon my original post, feeling like the issue was dealing with the negative talk from friends, regarding his marital status. As I said, I trust him when he tells me he's not married or in a relationship. Now I just feel sad, because I'm discussing someone that I really like and people think he's a terrible person and I'm foolish, regardless of whether or not he is attached. He's not a terrible person (although I certainly may be foolish). He is principled, kind and tolerant, intelligent and hard-working, loyal to his friends, and honourable in his conduct. He has been good to his family, and he has helped me out when I needed it. He thinks I'm wonderful, and rare and good and he tells me so. No other person I have dated has made me feel so good. So, when you ask how serious I am, I have no expectations of the man, but yes, I have love in my heart for him.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 2:36 PM on November 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
Why would someone who loves you allow you to feel this way because of simple self-protectiveness? Does he know that your friends put you through a lot and that you're questioning yourself and whether you understand the foundation of the relationship?
I am feeling sad for you, too, because I think you expected the majority to say your friends were being overly paranoid, and it just seems like most people feel their questions are totally reasonable ones. So that is your answer to that question - your friends' questions seem sensible to a lot of people.
As to the relationship itself, he may truly be all those wonderful things you say (though I'm kind of unsure how you can know he's loyal to friends and good to family if you've never met either). He may truly be. And if you're okay with things in your relationship staying just as they are, and not getting any more intimate or having any further entree into his life, then I guess you're okay and that's the end of it. If you really have no expectations then there is no problem, I guess. That doesn't mean your friends or AskMe are wrong or right or anything. It just means that you, for whatever reasons, are willing to go along with what for a lot of people is a strange situation that would be unsatisfying. And seriously, maybe that's all totally fine if you don't need things to go any further than the nice, visiting situation you have now. If you don't find it strange or unsatisfying and you really have no concerns, then that's all you need to know, and you can say it to your friends as well as to us. It's okay to say "This is my decision about the matter and I'm content with the relationship. No more discussion now, thanks."
posted by Miko at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
I am feeling sad for you, too, because I think you expected the majority to say your friends were being overly paranoid, and it just seems like most people feel their questions are totally reasonable ones. So that is your answer to that question - your friends' questions seem sensible to a lot of people.
As to the relationship itself, he may truly be all those wonderful things you say (though I'm kind of unsure how you can know he's loyal to friends and good to family if you've never met either). He may truly be. And if you're okay with things in your relationship staying just as they are, and not getting any more intimate or having any further entree into his life, then I guess you're okay and that's the end of it. If you really have no expectations then there is no problem, I guess. That doesn't mean your friends or AskMe are wrong or right or anything. It just means that you, for whatever reasons, are willing to go along with what for a lot of people is a strange situation that would be unsatisfying. And seriously, maybe that's all totally fine if you don't need things to go any further than the nice, visiting situation you have now. If you don't find it strange or unsatisfying and you really have no concerns, then that's all you need to know, and you can say it to your friends as well as to us. It's okay to say "This is my decision about the matter and I'm content with the relationship. No more discussion now, thanks."
posted by Miko at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
Just FYI, I don't think he's a terrible man, as I don't know him. This could be a big issue in X way or a big issue in Y way or a small issue in Z way. None of know, including you at this point. But since it's your relationship, do be cautious and think about these issues. Ya'll should talk it out and it's ok for you to voice concerns.
But otherwise, what's love and life without a bit of risk? Just remember to take care of yourself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2011
But otherwise, what's love and life without a bit of risk? Just remember to take care of yourself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2011
I have been where (I think) you are now, and it does suck. I had been dating a guy for a while. He was so smart, friendly, polite, good-looking, and interested in me! He had a daughter, so we had to schedule around her sometimes. He'd stop by my house on his way home from work, just to get a kiss. We'd have lunch together. My roommate was like, "Hello! He's married!" and I thought she was crazy. Until eventually it turned out he didn't just have a daughter, he actually had three kids. And he wasn't divorced, he was actively married and living with his wife. And I totally felt stupid for not catching it! I thought he really liked me but was busy.
Your boyfriend might be just weird! But having been duped before-- it seems like an easy jump for me to make that he has a secret life.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 3:58 PM on November 6, 2011
Your boyfriend might be just weird! But having been duped before-- it seems like an easy jump for me to make that he has a secret life.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 3:58 PM on November 6, 2011
OP, I'm so sorry to hear that you feel sad about what you've read in this thread, but I'm so glad you're reading it and thinking actively about what will make you most happy.
For what it's worth, I don't that he's terrible, or that you are foolish, or that there's any reason why you wouldn't enjoy being with him. Honestly, I had a lot of affection for the guy as soon as you said the word "backgammon," and like you, I am pretty dedicated to the benefit of the doubt and to fostering acceptance of people's quirks and preferences. I know that there is much about him that we can't see, and I understand your reservations about rocking a boat that is otherwise working for you.
With that in mind (and short of meeting his friends/family or seeing his home), let me suggest a few small things that you can either keep an eye out for or request from him over time, things that will likely make you feel even better about your trust in him such as:
- he spends an important holiday with you
- he agrees to changes in your scheduled times together with little or no notice
- he lets you take and store G-rated pictures of yourself (or the two of you together) on his cell phone
- he lets you borrow his cell phone, and/or leaves it unattended in plain sight
- he answers his cell phone (on the first try) early in the morning or late at night
- he gives you the number for his home landline
- he lets you call him on his home landline
- he Skypes with you from his home computer, at times you spontaneously request
- he takes a personal call in your presence
- he takes a personal call in your presence and says "I'm at OP's house" or "my girlfriend's house"
- he lets you speak to a personal contact on the phone
- he lets you send a holiday gift, vacation postcard, or other mail to him at his home address
- he lets you do dropoff/pickup for a date at his house (even if he does not invite you in)
- he lets you give him a hickey, or draw a funny doodle with a marker/pen, in an area that his otherwise covered by his shirt
- he takes your daughter aside for a heart-to-heart (or lets her do so), giving her a chance to communicate her concerns on your behalf
- he talks with you to explore ways to alleviate any concerns that emerge about him or your relationship
While none of these is critical on its own, if I were in your shoes I would be comforted by every data point that is consistent with the behavior of a man who is single and a loner... even if he does not ever want you to see his home and even if (or maybe especially if) he has a limited social network. If, however, his specific pattern of quirks and behaviors seems to consistently align with the life of someone who is already attached (i.e., even more "quacking like a duck"), then you can recalibrate as you see fit.
As you can probably guess, I too have some relevant experience in this arena (and a penchant for list-making, it would seem). Even if it (happily!) turns out that none of this analysis is necessary, I hope that others in similar situations will at least have some food for thought. Hope you'll keep us posted on how things go.
posted by argonauta at 6:03 PM on November 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
For what it's worth, I don't that he's terrible, or that you are foolish, or that there's any reason why you wouldn't enjoy being with him. Honestly, I had a lot of affection for the guy as soon as you said the word "backgammon," and like you, I am pretty dedicated to the benefit of the doubt and to fostering acceptance of people's quirks and preferences. I know that there is much about him that we can't see, and I understand your reservations about rocking a boat that is otherwise working for you.
With that in mind (and short of meeting his friends/family or seeing his home), let me suggest a few small things that you can either keep an eye out for or request from him over time, things that will likely make you feel even better about your trust in him such as:
- he spends an important holiday with you
- he agrees to changes in your scheduled times together with little or no notice
- he lets you take and store G-rated pictures of yourself (or the two of you together) on his cell phone
- he lets you borrow his cell phone, and/or leaves it unattended in plain sight
- he answers his cell phone (on the first try) early in the morning or late at night
- he gives you the number for his home landline
- he lets you call him on his home landline
- he Skypes with you from his home computer, at times you spontaneously request
- he takes a personal call in your presence
- he takes a personal call in your presence and says "I'm at OP's house" or "my girlfriend's house"
- he lets you speak to a personal contact on the phone
- he lets you send a holiday gift, vacation postcard, or other mail to him at his home address
- he lets you do dropoff/pickup for a date at his house (even if he does not invite you in)
- he lets you give him a hickey, or draw a funny doodle with a marker/pen, in an area that his otherwise covered by his shirt
- he takes your daughter aside for a heart-to-heart (or lets her do so), giving her a chance to communicate her concerns on your behalf
- he talks with you to explore ways to alleviate any concerns that emerge about him or your relationship
While none of these is critical on its own, if I were in your shoes I would be comforted by every data point that is consistent with the behavior of a man who is single and a loner... even if he does not ever want you to see his home and even if (or maybe especially if) he has a limited social network. If, however, his specific pattern of quirks and behaviors seems to consistently align with the life of someone who is already attached (i.e., even more "quacking like a duck"), then you can recalibrate as you see fit.
As you can probably guess, I too have some relevant experience in this arena (and a penchant for list-making, it would seem). Even if it (happily!) turns out that none of this analysis is necessary, I hope that others in similar situations will at least have some food for thought. Hope you'll keep us posted on how things go.
posted by argonauta at 6:03 PM on November 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
I hate to be the negative person here. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter now kind/loving/sexy/amazing he it. You still haven't:
1) Seen his home
2) Met any of his friends and family.
I don't care if he has dedicated his life to saving puppies and kittens while simultaneously caring for the homeless. There does exist a social practice in the world of dating of letting your partner see your home, meet your family/friends and generally be integrated in each others lives after a certain amount of time.
If you had written a love letter about perfect the current situation was for you, then I would applaud your healthy and happy relationship. However, that is not what is happening here.
Your Captain Amazing should at least have you to his home at least once. He should have introduced you to his friends and family at least once. If for no other reason then that he likes you and wants to build emotional intimacy with you so that you don't go away. This should be a simple request that she can fill to bring the two of you closer together. The fact that this is not a simple task for him is the part that is suspicious. The fact that he may very well be the kindest and most charming man you have ever met does not change the basic facts.
Even really nice guys can make really bad decisions sometimes.
posted by Shouraku at 6:29 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
1) Seen his home
2) Met any of his friends and family.
I don't care if he has dedicated his life to saving puppies and kittens while simultaneously caring for the homeless. There does exist a social practice in the world of dating of letting your partner see your home, meet your family/friends and generally be integrated in each others lives after a certain amount of time.
If you had written a love letter about perfect the current situation was for you, then I would applaud your healthy and happy relationship. However, that is not what is happening here.
Your Captain Amazing should at least have you to his home at least once. He should have introduced you to his friends and family at least once. If for no other reason then that he likes you and wants to build emotional intimacy with you so that you don't go away. This should be a simple request that she can fill to bring the two of you closer together. The fact that this is not a simple task for him is the part that is suspicious. The fact that he may very well be the kindest and most charming man you have ever met does not change the basic facts.
Even really nice guys can make really bad decisions sometimes.
posted by Shouraku at 6:29 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
We were together last night and I spoke to him regarding him never sleeping over. I asked if he ever would and he said of course, he didn't realize that it was that important to me, so he will, and I will get some breathe-rite strips.
He will be getting to know my family more, as my younger brother is about to move in with me. He's expressed some nervousness about this, but I've assured him that my brother is not going to dislike him, or expect him to sit and chat with him. The rest, I will work on, one thing at a time. I have no desire to change the guy, just to make him comfortable with and trusting of me to a point where he wants to share with me, not to have him feel forced into it.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 6:41 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
He will be getting to know my family more, as my younger brother is about to move in with me. He's expressed some nervousness about this, but I've assured him that my brother is not going to dislike him, or expect him to sit and chat with him. The rest, I will work on, one thing at a time. I have no desire to change the guy, just to make him comfortable with and trusting of me to a point where he wants to share with me, not to have him feel forced into it.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 6:41 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have no desire to change the guy, just to make him comfortable with and trusting of me to a point where he wants to share with me
Huh? How has this turned into your need to make him comfortable with and trusting of you? Have you completely discounted everything people said in this thread?
posted by jayder at 7:51 PM on November 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
Huh? How has this turned into your need to make him comfortable with and trusting of you? Have you completely discounted everything people said in this thread?
posted by jayder at 7:51 PM on November 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
If he can't share his address after five days, something is very wrong. The fact that he has somehow convinced you --or that you have convinced yourself --that his home, his home phone number and even his address are off-limits, private information which must be earned through patience and trust-- is very very distressing to hear.
posted by uans at 8:25 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by uans at 8:25 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
It seems like you may already know the only answer you want to hear from this thread, alltomorrowsparties. The way you handle this situation is totally up to you and is subject to your prerogative. As miko said, it's okay to say "thanks, but no more feedback".
That said, it might be a good idea to talk this through with an impartial third party--like a therapist. Good luck.
posted by anonnymoose at 9:02 PM on November 6, 2011
That said, it might be a good idea to talk this through with an impartial third party--like a therapist. Good luck.
posted by anonnymoose at 9:02 PM on November 6, 2011
Therapy? Honestly? Look, it's not like my whole reason for being is tied up with this guy. I have an interesting and satisfying life outside of this relationship. I was just getting tired of defending him to my friends and family (who, btw, almost all live in different places than I do, I don't know a lot of people here, so they are judging from a distance).
So yes, I'm cutting him an incredible amount of slack, I know but he's willing to accommodate my weird schedule and I enjoy the time I spend with him. It's my perception that all these things, this sharing of details, will come to pass or it won't. I am not interested in forcing or manipulating anyone to give me anything they don't want to. Nor am I interested in playing detective and snooping around. I find that idea terribly distasteful, and would hate to have it done to me. I'm a trusting person, a fact well known by those who do know me, and I'm proud to be that way. People have good in them and being distrustful and wary in all of one's personal relationships is a soul-crushing idea to me. I get hurt far less than you might think, given this attitude.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 12:58 AM on November 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
So yes, I'm cutting him an incredible amount of slack, I know but he's willing to accommodate my weird schedule and I enjoy the time I spend with him. It's my perception that all these things, this sharing of details, will come to pass or it won't. I am not interested in forcing or manipulating anyone to give me anything they don't want to. Nor am I interested in playing detective and snooping around. I find that idea terribly distasteful, and would hate to have it done to me. I'm a trusting person, a fact well known by those who do know me, and I'm proud to be that way. People have good in them and being distrustful and wary in all of one's personal relationships is a soul-crushing idea to me. I get hurt far less than you might think, given this attitude.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 12:58 AM on November 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, against the tide: for a real introvert, a serious one, five months together is NOT all that long. Not everyone--and I don't mean it against any commenter here, not at all, just as an observation--is 35 years old, well-adjusted, well-psychotherapized, socially connected, and communicative. Life is complicated and often very sad. The man just buried BOTH of his parents. Now, surely people want to respond saying, "I've had a sad life and my relationship was a model of openness and sharing from the very first." That is fantastic and I am glad for these hypothetical responents.
OP, if he did have a peer group of mainstream types, partnered with 9-5 jobs, all that, they would surely be leaning on him to have you over already. In my case, my SO does have a couple of friends, real ones, who care about him, but he's by far the most socially clued-in of all of them. At 60, or 50, no matter who we're talking about, even the All-American Guy, there are just not as many people around to say "DUDE, pull yourself together."
So where does that leave you? Fair question. You can be patient and see where it goes. At a certain point you may, inside yourself, feel less patient. But don't let outsiders, however loving and well-meaning, pressure you in that direction.
posted by skbw at 5:14 AM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
OP, if he did have a peer group of mainstream types, partnered with 9-5 jobs, all that, they would surely be leaning on him to have you over already. In my case, my SO does have a couple of friends, real ones, who care about him, but he's by far the most socially clued-in of all of them. At 60, or 50, no matter who we're talking about, even the All-American Guy, there are just not as many people around to say "DUDE, pull yourself together."
So where does that leave you? Fair question. You can be patient and see where it goes. At a certain point you may, inside yourself, feel less patient. But don't let outsiders, however loving and well-meaning, pressure you in that direction.
posted by skbw at 5:14 AM on November 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, OP, regarding advice from family and friends: of course listen to it. Of course hear both the practicalities and the love behind it. But (as I'm sure you realize in your 40s) keep reminding yourself that, ESPECIALLY on relationship matters, people's advice to another is often a way of justifying the choices they themselves have made. In my own fun odyssey of love between introverts, this has been brought home to me a number of times.
posted by skbw at 5:26 AM on November 7, 2011
posted by skbw at 5:26 AM on November 7, 2011
Yes, I really apologize if I offended, OP. I didn't mean to imply anything snarky--it was exactly as angrycat said.
posted by anonnymoose at 8:39 AM on November 7, 2011
posted by anonnymoose at 8:39 AM on November 7, 2011
Your situation (of not knowing where your bf lives) reminded me of this Cary Tennis question. The writer had been with her bf for five years (not months!) and didn't know where he lived. You and the writer sound similar - not wanting to investigate/snoop, and having partners that have a lot of quirks. The writer has a pretty good explanation for why her bf never had people over to his house: he valued his privacy immensely. But as Cary points out, that prevents deeper intimacy from developing, which is what the writer wanted. What happened next is up to her.
Same with you. You want to have a relationship with this guy, and you'll do it in the way that you want. As for your friends, sure, listen to their concerns, and decide for yourself if they have merit. But you don't have to do what they say. You choose your actions. At some point, only time will tell if your friends were right or wrong. The only thing I'd watch out for is if there's something that feels "off" about him. Just listen to your gut, do NOT make excuses for him (i.e. to yourself) and if red flags come up, don't ignore them!!!
in all this time I have yet to see his home or meet anyone he knows. I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend.
Maybe this is just the way you phrased it, but what did you ask him about - not seeing his home and meeting anyone he knows, or being married and having a girlfriend? Because if you asked him "Why haven't I seen your house and met anyone you know?" and he answered, "I'm not married or have a girlfriend" that would be weird. And, have you asked him about seeing his house or meeting his friends? How has he responded? Has he responded in a way that makes sense to you, or did it raise red flags/seem like there's something off?
posted by foxjacket at 2:08 PM on November 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Same with you. You want to have a relationship with this guy, and you'll do it in the way that you want. As for your friends, sure, listen to their concerns, and decide for yourself if they have merit. But you don't have to do what they say. You choose your actions. At some point, only time will tell if your friends were right or wrong. The only thing I'd watch out for is if there's something that feels "off" about him. Just listen to your gut, do NOT make excuses for him (i.e. to yourself) and if red flags come up, don't ignore them!!!
in all this time I have yet to see his home or meet anyone he knows. I did ask him about it some time ago and he was quite adamant that no, he was not married, nor did he have a girlfriend.
Maybe this is just the way you phrased it, but what did you ask him about - not seeing his home and meeting anyone he knows, or being married and having a girlfriend? Because if you asked him "Why haven't I seen your house and met anyone you know?" and he answered, "I'm not married or have a girlfriend" that would be weird. And, have you asked him about seeing his house or meeting his friends? How has he responded? Has he responded in a way that makes sense to you, or did it raise red flags/seem like there's something off?
posted by foxjacket at 2:08 PM on November 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Foxjacket's answer touched on something I found a little odd. It's strange to be "adamant" that one doesn't have a wife or girlfriend. Instead, the normal response would be "whoa, this woman doesn't know enough about me. I need to show her around my life a bit more." Because, as we all know, with a very small introduction to the mundaneness of a person's life, we could satisfy ourselves that No, He Is Definitely Not Married or Dating Anyone. But you raised this concern, and what did you get? Nothing. Okay, you got his cell phone number. A general area where he lives. You've met nobody who knows him. I've thought a lot about this question over the weekend, and I'm really starting to think that this kind of withholding is a form of abuse -- a really pernicious kind of subtle, passive abuse, in that it denies you something that any person in a romantic relationship needs (to be "let into" a romantic partner's life, some surrendering of distance by that romantic partner). And he maintains plausible deniability, presenting this not as abuse or lack of trustworthiness but a "quirk" of an amazing guy who runs his own business but somehow can't find it in himself to introduce you to anyone who knows him. I'm not buying it and neither is anyone else here. But you've been so slowly acclimated to this, that you've totally flipped it in your mind to be a situation where you need to earn his trust. That's very sad to me. He's taken advantage of you, enjoyed your letting him into your life, and he's getting everything on his terms, while shutting you out completely from his world.
posted by jayder at 6:31 PM on November 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by jayder at 6:31 PM on November 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
Well, I for one hope you come back in a few months and update us as to how things are going, OP.
posted by Miko at 8:15 PM on November 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:15 PM on November 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
Well, he stayed over last night. One thing at a time, right?
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 6:31 PM on November 11, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 6:31 PM on November 11, 2011 [10 favorites]
Sleepovers seem like they're going to be a regular thing, too.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 9:41 PM on November 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 9:41 PM on November 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Final update on the post. We're still together, he sleeps over regularly, I've been by the apartment, we have been going out together more, we've said "I love you", we see each other more often, and he is moving out of the apartment and into his studio (which is in my neighbourhood). I'm really happy, he seems to be really happy, and even my friends and family have stopped bothering me about him. Yeah, he's still kind of weird, but so am I and our weirdnesses seem to mesh pretty well. No wife or girlfriend, nothing bizarre; no dead bodies or insane hoarding. Just two happy people who kiss a lot. Thanks all, for your concern and input.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 9:08 PM on January 3, 2012 [17 favorites]
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 9:08 PM on January 3, 2012 [17 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:03 AM on November 5, 2011 [15 favorites]