Is he a jerk? I can't seem to get over him.
October 1, 2011 10:43 PM Subscribe
Is he a jerk? I can't seem to get over him.
I met this guy last summer. We went out on a few dates, and I felt we really clicked. He was the first guy I dated and it felt so nice to be appreciated. He told me that I was so special and talked about how he could envision a future for us, etc. I went back home for a month that summer, and later he told me that he had slept with a girl he was dating previously; he told me that they had broken up before he met me, but that the girl came to visit him and "seduced" him. I was heartbroken.
I decided to give him another chance, mainly because he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him" and told me that there was no long-term potential with her, but that he could see long-term potential with me. We dated for a couple months, but it was a rocky relationship. The good times were really good- he was sweet, caring, very romantic. Then, some days he would exhibit an extreme moodshift; he would become irritable and try to break up out of the blue over petty things- one time one of our phone conversations was short (I was just tired that day so didn't have the energy to talk for very long), so he asked if we should maybe "take a break" since he was upset that we "didn't have much to say to each other." During finals, I couldn't see him over the span of a couple weeks, and he became increasingly rude and distant. I was apologetic and tried to explain to him that my classes were taking a lot of time and effort, but that he was still a priority.
Because he grew so distant, and I couldn't take his mood swings anymore, I broke up with him. Soon after that he told me that he intended to go back to his ex-girlfriend (the one he had cheated on me with). To make things worse, she demanded that he "remove me as a friend on Facebook," and he was in essence telling me that he would do it. I got angry and asked him why he would go back to someone whom he didn't envision long-term potential. (He even described her as being a "bitch" when he told me that she had "seduced" him last summer.) When I asked him these things, he got extremely angry and started cussing at me.
Am I stupid for still having feelings for this guy even when he treated me this way? Is he a jerk for doing these things? This is my first relationship so I just want people's opinions on what really constitutes "bad behavior" from a guy. He tried to rationalize sleeping with her last summer because it was difficult to turn her down since we weren't "officially in a relationship," but deep down I know that if he really appreciated me and meant what he said about me being so special, he wouldn't have treated me like this.
I guess I know the answer to my question- he is a jerk. But I would just like everyone's opinions on what they think he did wrong, or whether he did anything wrong after all... then I feel I can really move on. Was he being manipulative? Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals? Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex? Was it wrong of me to be so upset that he slept with her, when we weren't "officially" a couple?
Thanks for reading this super-long post; I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
I met this guy last summer. We went out on a few dates, and I felt we really clicked. He was the first guy I dated and it felt so nice to be appreciated. He told me that I was so special and talked about how he could envision a future for us, etc. I went back home for a month that summer, and later he told me that he had slept with a girl he was dating previously; he told me that they had broken up before he met me, but that the girl came to visit him and "seduced" him. I was heartbroken.
I decided to give him another chance, mainly because he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him" and told me that there was no long-term potential with her, but that he could see long-term potential with me. We dated for a couple months, but it was a rocky relationship. The good times were really good- he was sweet, caring, very romantic. Then, some days he would exhibit an extreme moodshift; he would become irritable and try to break up out of the blue over petty things- one time one of our phone conversations was short (I was just tired that day so didn't have the energy to talk for very long), so he asked if we should maybe "take a break" since he was upset that we "didn't have much to say to each other." During finals, I couldn't see him over the span of a couple weeks, and he became increasingly rude and distant. I was apologetic and tried to explain to him that my classes were taking a lot of time and effort, but that he was still a priority.
Because he grew so distant, and I couldn't take his mood swings anymore, I broke up with him. Soon after that he told me that he intended to go back to his ex-girlfriend (the one he had cheated on me with). To make things worse, she demanded that he "remove me as a friend on Facebook," and he was in essence telling me that he would do it. I got angry and asked him why he would go back to someone whom he didn't envision long-term potential. (He even described her as being a "bitch" when he told me that she had "seduced" him last summer.) When I asked him these things, he got extremely angry and started cussing at me.
Am I stupid for still having feelings for this guy even when he treated me this way? Is he a jerk for doing these things? This is my first relationship so I just want people's opinions on what really constitutes "bad behavior" from a guy. He tried to rationalize sleeping with her last summer because it was difficult to turn her down since we weren't "officially in a relationship," but deep down I know that if he really appreciated me and meant what he said about me being so special, he wouldn't have treated me like this.
I guess I know the answer to my question- he is a jerk. But I would just like everyone's opinions on what they think he did wrong, or whether he did anything wrong after all... then I feel I can really move on. Was he being manipulative? Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals? Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex? Was it wrong of me to be so upset that he slept with her, when we weren't "officially" a couple?
Thanks for reading this super-long post; I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
Am I stupid for still having feelings for this guy even when he treated me this way?
Not stupid, just human. You may feel as foolish again in the future, there should be no shame in it. Learn, move on, be happy.
You can be angry with him as much as you want, for any reason. Your feelings are valid, to the extent they are your own true feelings. The ones you were manipulated into feeling -- you know which ones those were. move on from them. Like I said, no shame in it.
I've felt and done similar and worse things over jerky people too. Many Mefites have. Do your best to move on and learn from the experience.
posted by jabberjaw at 11:02 PM on October 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
Not stupid, just human. You may feel as foolish again in the future, there should be no shame in it. Learn, move on, be happy.
You can be angry with him as much as you want, for any reason. Your feelings are valid, to the extent they are your own true feelings. The ones you were manipulated into feeling -- you know which ones those were. move on from them. Like I said, no shame in it.
I've felt and done similar and worse things over jerky people too. Many Mefites have. Do your best to move on and learn from the experience.
posted by jabberjaw at 11:02 PM on October 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
Almost no one gets it right on their first try, but that's okay because it's a learning experience. You learn from your mistakes so you're able to catch the red flags early on your next try.
He told me that I was so special and talked about how he could envision a future for us
People too eager and making serious plans for the future right off the bat isn't necessarily a glaring red flag, but it's something that you should be weary of.
he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him"
HUGE RED FLAG. You should have pretty much dumped him at this point without looking back. Any decent man is not going to blame his behavior on someone else. Also, why would you want a guy that couldn't control his urges because some woman was "seducing him." Ugh.
he would become irritable and try to break up out of the blue over petty things
Yeah, no. That's not a red flag, that's a douchebag alarm going off.
Was he being manipulative?
Absolutely yes.
Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals?
No. Mature adults can handle periods in their relationship where they realize their partner has Important Things going on and that they might have to sit on the back burner for a bit. This guy is obviously not a mature adult.
Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex?
No but you shouldn't have let him drag you down into the drama. He's an asshole and you shouldn't really concern yourself with him anymore.
Do you believe that you deserve to be treated with love, respect, patience and kindness? If yes, then never, ever let someone treat you otherwise. There are too many awesome people in this world to waste your time on the jerks.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:04 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
He told me that I was so special and talked about how he could envision a future for us
People too eager and making serious plans for the future right off the bat isn't necessarily a glaring red flag, but it's something that you should be weary of.
he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him"
HUGE RED FLAG. You should have pretty much dumped him at this point without looking back. Any decent man is not going to blame his behavior on someone else. Also, why would you want a guy that couldn't control his urges because some woman was "seducing him." Ugh.
he would become irritable and try to break up out of the blue over petty things
Yeah, no. That's not a red flag, that's a douchebag alarm going off.
Was he being manipulative?
Absolutely yes.
Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals?
No. Mature adults can handle periods in their relationship where they realize their partner has Important Things going on and that they might have to sit on the back burner for a bit. This guy is obviously not a mature adult.
Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex?
No but you shouldn't have let him drag you down into the drama. He's an asshole and you shouldn't really concern yourself with him anymore.
Do you believe that you deserve to be treated with love, respect, patience and kindness? If yes, then never, ever let someone treat you otherwise. There are too many awesome people in this world to waste your time on the jerks.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:04 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
Jerk. Not a jerk. Bad behavior. Good behavior. Whatever: If he gave a shit about you, he wouldn't have slept with his ex, because he would've known it would've hurt you.
So he doesn't give a shit about you. You know that. So there's not much of a point to giving a shit about him. I assume you're young. Don't waste your life being angry. It's simply time to move on.
posted by chasing at 11:04 PM on October 1, 2011
So he doesn't give a shit about you. You know that. So there's not much of a point to giving a shit about him. I assume you're young. Don't waste your life being angry. It's simply time to move on.
posted by chasing at 11:04 PM on October 1, 2011
What he did wrong:
- Telling you he envisioned a future for you after a few dates. Unless you're both teenagers, that's either a big red flag because he's moving too fast, or a big red flag because he was trying to manipulate you. You just can't tell that kind of thing after a few dates; you can tell if someone wouldn't be a good long-term match, because some personalities just won't click, but that's about it. It takes way more time to know if you have a future together.
- Not taking responsibility for having sex with his ex.
- Mood swings. This isn't something he did wrong, exactly, but it's a bad sign. Maybe he's mentally ill, maybe he just has issues.
- Being rude to you, even if he genuinely felt neglected when you couldn't see him. Not okay in a friendship, not okay in a relationship. Insults aren't communication.
- Taking Facebook seriously and letting his ex order him around like that. That's not a sign of a healthy relationship, and people's relationship patterns and history matter. No one goes from a dysfunctional relationship straight into a healthy one. There has to be an adjustment period. Healthy people know this.
- Calling his ex a "bitch". Gendered slurs don't always mean a guy is a jerk, but they're not a good sign. What did she do to warrant that besides having sex with him?
- Playing the "but we were on a break!" game, especially as an excuse for his behavior. He doesn't know how to set proper boundaries or take responsibility for how his actions make you feel.
He sounds like a trainwreck, whether he's just messed up despite genuine feelings for you or deliberately manipulative. You're better off without him.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 11:05 PM on October 1, 2011 [13 favorites]
- Telling you he envisioned a future for you after a few dates. Unless you're both teenagers, that's either a big red flag because he's moving too fast, or a big red flag because he was trying to manipulate you. You just can't tell that kind of thing after a few dates; you can tell if someone wouldn't be a good long-term match, because some personalities just won't click, but that's about it. It takes way more time to know if you have a future together.
- Not taking responsibility for having sex with his ex.
- Mood swings. This isn't something he did wrong, exactly, but it's a bad sign. Maybe he's mentally ill, maybe he just has issues.
- Being rude to you, even if he genuinely felt neglected when you couldn't see him. Not okay in a friendship, not okay in a relationship. Insults aren't communication.
- Taking Facebook seriously and letting his ex order him around like that. That's not a sign of a healthy relationship, and people's relationship patterns and history matter. No one goes from a dysfunctional relationship straight into a healthy one. There has to be an adjustment period. Healthy people know this.
- Calling his ex a "bitch". Gendered slurs don't always mean a guy is a jerk, but they're not a good sign. What did she do to warrant that besides having sex with him?
- Playing the "but we were on a break!" game, especially as an excuse for his behavior. He doesn't know how to set proper boundaries or take responsibility for how his actions make you feel.
He sounds like a trainwreck, whether he's just messed up despite genuine feelings for you or deliberately manipulative. You're better off without him.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 11:05 PM on October 1, 2011 [13 favorites]
Am I stupid for still having feelings for this guy even when he treated me this way?
No, you're human.
Is he a jerk for doing these things?
Yes. Not the worst person in the world, but definitely not the right guy for you.
Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals?
Personally, if I lived in the same city as the person I was dating I would be a little put off if they couldn't find any time for me over a two week period, no matter how busy they are. But I wouldn't behave the way this guy did about it.
Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex? Was it wrong of me to be so upset that he slept with her, when we weren't "officially" a couple?
These are things you can be mad about when you're alone in your apartment, or out having drinks with friends. Just don't let him know that you're mad. Take the high ground.
posted by auto-correct at 11:07 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
No, you're human.
Is he a jerk for doing these things?
Yes. Not the worst person in the world, but definitely not the right guy for you.
Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals?
Personally, if I lived in the same city as the person I was dating I would be a little put off if they couldn't find any time for me over a two week period, no matter how busy they are. But I wouldn't behave the way this guy did about it.
Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex? Was it wrong of me to be so upset that he slept with her, when we weren't "officially" a couple?
These are things you can be mad about when you're alone in your apartment, or out having drinks with friends. Just don't let him know that you're mad. Take the high ground.
posted by auto-correct at 11:07 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
He sounds emotionally abusive and potentially worse. He's a dangerous, manipulative liar and an all round generally unhinged pig. This is another instance of "dodging a bullet", be glad you're rid of him. He would have made you feel terrible about yourself for the rest of your life.
posted by taff at 11:12 PM on October 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by taff at 11:12 PM on October 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
HE TALKED BADLY ABOUT SOMEONE HE HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH, AND IS STILL SLEEPING WITH...
That's Bad Bad Juju/Red Flag behavior. Immature JERK.
Endeavor in the future to NOT be attracted to these charming-but-disingenuous types. Make this your first priority in your romantic life. Full stop.
posted by jbenben at 11:19 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
That's Bad Bad Juju/Red Flag behavior. Immature JERK.
Endeavor in the future to NOT be attracted to these charming-but-disingenuous types. Make this your first priority in your romantic life. Full stop.
posted by jbenben at 11:19 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
Also, by "being honest" he is (most likely subconsciously) testing you. Folks like this don't see the patterns they are running - but there you are.
He's looking to see how much bullshit and bad behavior you will put up with. You already went over the line when you took him back the first time he slept with his ex.
Teach yourself you are not a fool by seeing his recent and current shenanigans as supremely unattractive and cut him off NOW.
posted by jbenben at 11:27 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
He's looking to see how much bullshit and bad behavior you will put up with. You already went over the line when you took him back the first time he slept with his ex.
Teach yourself you are not a fool by seeing his recent and current shenanigans as supremely unattractive and cut him off NOW.
posted by jbenben at 11:27 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
deep down I know that if he really appreciated me and meant what he said about me being so special, he wouldn't have treated me like this.
Oh, and this? Bad way of thinking about it. It's true as far as it goes, but that's one step away from buying into the line of thought that goes: "well, he treats her poorly, but he doesn't really care about her, with me it will be different". People in abusive relationships know that one all too well. If he treats anyone poorly, that's a huge red flag. It doesn't matter who.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 11:34 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh, and this? Bad way of thinking about it. It's true as far as it goes, but that's one step away from buying into the line of thought that goes: "well, he treats her poorly, but he doesn't really care about her, with me it will be different". People in abusive relationships know that one all too well. If he treats anyone poorly, that's a huge red flag. It doesn't matter who.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 11:34 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
I guess I know the answer to my question- he is a jerk.
Yes, he is. And you did nothing wrong, so no need to revisit and question your choices.
Some people are just unhappy no matter what, and instead of realizing they bring the rain with them wherever they go, they blame their romantic partners. (that he did this in such tendered misogynistic ways irks mea lot, but it's all part of the self centered view that only he matters, everyone else is an accessory at best.). Inaccurately, since they are the ones messing up the situation.
Move on. The right relationship will feel easy and happy, like an incredibly soft and comfortable piece of clothing you found unexpectedly and then cant imagine living without. This guy has problems he, not you, needs to solve.
posted by bearwife at 11:37 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yes, he is. And you did nothing wrong, so no need to revisit and question your choices.
Some people are just unhappy no matter what, and instead of realizing they bring the rain with them wherever they go, they blame their romantic partners. (that he did this in such tendered misogynistic ways irks mea lot, but it's all part of the self centered view that only he matters, everyone else is an accessory at best.). Inaccurately, since they are the ones messing up the situation.
Move on. The right relationship will feel easy and happy, like an incredibly soft and comfortable piece of clothing you found unexpectedly and then cant imagine living without. This guy has problems he, not you, needs to solve.
posted by bearwife at 11:37 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Lots of people have touched on this in their longer answers, but let me cut to the chase: She didn't "seduce" him. He had sex with her because he wanted to. The fact that he is blaming her for his actions is a red flag.
posted by cabingirl at 11:43 PM on October 1, 2011
posted by cabingirl at 11:43 PM on October 1, 2011
As always...
Happy People Don't Do Bad Things.
He's done Bad Things. You can NOT make him happy, btw. This is just in case you need insight.
posted by jbenben at 11:54 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Happy People Don't Do Bad Things.
He's done Bad Things. You can NOT make him happy, btw. This is just in case you need insight.
posted by jbenben at 11:54 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
"He was the first guy I dated and it felt so nice to be appreciated."
He knew this and preyed on it. I'm really sorry. It's majorly sucky behaviour on his part.
"He told me that I was so special and talked about how he could envision a future for us, etc."
Unnecessary carrot dangling. In the future, these are words best said when it's obvious that the envisioned future is something shared, as in there's actual things you both can envision and reasons you both envision those things based on experiences you've had together. He said this empty, devoid of those things because...what are they?
"later he told me that he had slept with a girl he was dating previously"
Flagged for possible abandonment issues. Definitely for not being over his ex, whatever that means.
"I decided to give him another chance, mainly because he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him"
This makes ME angry. Others have put it better than I could, but his "anger" at someone he used to be in a (loving?) relationship with, someone he recently got completely naked with and put his dick inside and presumably kissed and felt romantic, sexy feelings for is NOT about how it ruined his chances with you. It's about some emotional mess he's made that you really want no part of.
"During finals, I couldn't see him over the span of a couple weeks, and he became increasingly rude and distant."
This tells me that for him, this was about him and was always about him. His feelings take priority over your life goals and responsibilities and priorities. How strangling! You're free, yaaaaay!
There's some other bothersome, red-flaggy stuff here, but I don't want to pick everything apart. I hope that all of us pointing out how we perceive these events gives you some perspective and new ways to look at all this. Frankly, it sounds like "jerk" isn't enough. And to be honest, it doesn't really describe him well. If you need better labels, then selfish, insecure, rude, dishonest, manipulative, dangerous, egoistic, damaged and totally fucking lame might do. Also, none of this is romantic, sexy or loving, which I'm sure are the feelings you were aiming for. You don't have to work with this to try to make it fit.
But this is ok. Many relationships are like this. Even when they seem so promising at first. What you do is get better at getting out early. So you can move on easier and find somebody suited to you who has their act together. And don't be afraid to do things that you might (right now) perceive as you being a jerk yourself. You don't need to apologize for being unavailable, busy, unable to take on someone else's emotional load and sort it for them. (This is the kind of guy who'd dump it on you and then tell you you're sorting it all wrong anyway. Run.) Healthy, relationship-wise people know this. Forgive yourself for not having the experience yet for knowing the what's healthy and wise. This is some and you're getting there. The next one will be better, I promise.
For me, sometimes I've found it hard to move on/let go because I'm stuck on wanting to show them something. That they've hurt me, that I see something now, that I'm sorry for my part, that I'm sorry for them, that...I could go on forever I'm sure. If I wanted to engage my energy that way. But I don't and you ultimately don't either. Just SIT with these awful urges and feelings and unsaid, unresolved things. Let them rot or or just ache. Don't feed them or let them fester. They will go away eventually and you will be better for not having done too much about it. Not every emotion or revelation needs action. Focus on accepting what happened and where you are now.
Good luck and I hope you get out of this funky mess soon, and onto something great.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:23 AM on October 2, 2011 [12 favorites]
He knew this and preyed on it. I'm really sorry. It's majorly sucky behaviour on his part.
"He told me that I was so special and talked about how he could envision a future for us, etc."
Unnecessary carrot dangling. In the future, these are words best said when it's obvious that the envisioned future is something shared, as in there's actual things you both can envision and reasons you both envision those things based on experiences you've had together. He said this empty, devoid of those things because...what are they?
"later he told me that he had slept with a girl he was dating previously"
Flagged for possible abandonment issues. Definitely for not being over his ex, whatever that means.
"I decided to give him another chance, mainly because he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him"
This makes ME angry. Others have put it better than I could, but his "anger" at someone he used to be in a (loving?) relationship with, someone he recently got completely naked with and put his dick inside and presumably kissed and felt romantic, sexy feelings for is NOT about how it ruined his chances with you. It's about some emotional mess he's made that you really want no part of.
"During finals, I couldn't see him over the span of a couple weeks, and he became increasingly rude and distant."
This tells me that for him, this was about him and was always about him. His feelings take priority over your life goals and responsibilities and priorities. How strangling! You're free, yaaaaay!
There's some other bothersome, red-flaggy stuff here, but I don't want to pick everything apart. I hope that all of us pointing out how we perceive these events gives you some perspective and new ways to look at all this. Frankly, it sounds like "jerk" isn't enough. And to be honest, it doesn't really describe him well. If you need better labels, then selfish, insecure, rude, dishonest, manipulative, dangerous, egoistic, damaged and totally fucking lame might do. Also, none of this is romantic, sexy or loving, which I'm sure are the feelings you were aiming for. You don't have to work with this to try to make it fit.
But this is ok. Many relationships are like this. Even when they seem so promising at first. What you do is get better at getting out early. So you can move on easier and find somebody suited to you who has their act together. And don't be afraid to do things that you might (right now) perceive as you being a jerk yourself. You don't need to apologize for being unavailable, busy, unable to take on someone else's emotional load and sort it for them. (This is the kind of guy who'd dump it on you and then tell you you're sorting it all wrong anyway. Run.) Healthy, relationship-wise people know this. Forgive yourself for not having the experience yet for knowing the what's healthy and wise. This is some and you're getting there. The next one will be better, I promise.
For me, sometimes I've found it hard to move on/let go because I'm stuck on wanting to show them something. That they've hurt me, that I see something now, that I'm sorry for my part, that I'm sorry for them, that...I could go on forever I'm sure. If I wanted to engage my energy that way. But I don't and you ultimately don't either. Just SIT with these awful urges and feelings and unsaid, unresolved things. Let them rot or or just ache. Don't feed them or let them fester. They will go away eventually and you will be better for not having done too much about it. Not every emotion or revelation needs action. Focus on accepting what happened and where you are now.
Good luck and I hope you get out of this funky mess soon, and onto something great.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:23 AM on October 2, 2011 [12 favorites]
It is so much easier to be wise on someone else's behalf than your own... I think we all have one (or more) story which reads a lot like yours - but many of us weren't able to take the right course of action, because we were too deep in it to see clearly. You are fairly exceptional in that despite your young age (I assume you are quite young), you seem really clear-headed, even if you are also quite soft-hearted and fell honestly for someone who didn't deserve it. Yes, the guy is highly dubious, and, as some people above say, you should probably have left him to his own devices as soon as he gave you the spiel about the ex seducing him (what is he, a baby?), but don't beat yourself up about giving it another go - some of us spent years in equally unhinged relationships.
Reading up a bit on the ways people show themselves to not be relationship material, and advice on how to deal with such people might help you think about this experience in fruitful ways. THe whole "we have such an amazing future together" was particularly hard hitting with me, so I found this post on future faking particularly instructive. And, given that break-ups are so bewildering, this series on break-up issues was useful, too. And finally, if the guy didn't delete you on Facebook - you go first. Delete him as a contact on your phone, on Facebook, in your email address, don't write to him, don't talk to him - this thing called the No Contact rule is a major helper for situations like yours. Irrespective of wether he comes back to give it another try or propose friendship, or if it is just to inform you of how much he will have to cut you in the future - there is no reason for you to have someone like this bumming around in your life. And this has to be your decision - hard initially to stick with it, but you will be surprised just how quickly it will show its beneficial effect.
posted by miorita at 1:40 AM on October 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
Reading up a bit on the ways people show themselves to not be relationship material, and advice on how to deal with such people might help you think about this experience in fruitful ways. THe whole "we have such an amazing future together" was particularly hard hitting with me, so I found this post on future faking particularly instructive. And, given that break-ups are so bewildering, this series on break-up issues was useful, too. And finally, if the guy didn't delete you on Facebook - you go first. Delete him as a contact on your phone, on Facebook, in your email address, don't write to him, don't talk to him - this thing called the No Contact rule is a major helper for situations like yours. Irrespective of wether he comes back to give it another try or propose friendship, or if it is just to inform you of how much he will have to cut you in the future - there is no reason for you to have someone like this bumming around in your life. And this has to be your decision - hard initially to stick with it, but you will be surprised just how quickly it will show its beneficial effect.
posted by miorita at 1:40 AM on October 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Wow... I am really touched by all the heartfelt responses here on MeFi! This was my first post on MeFi, and I'm really astounded by the sense of community on here. Thank you all.
I was, more than anything, really hurt and shocked that he would consider going back to her after he slept with her and hurt me. I do understand that I was the one who broke up with him in the end, but somehow, I feel that what he did (getting back together with her) was really insensitive. He promised he would do anything to win my trust back again, but now I chalk it up to naivete that I would believe he would treat me differently than he treated her. Part of the reason I thought to give him another chance was because (stupidly) I believed what he said about me having "long term potential" while she did not. At the time, his anger toward her, though I agree was unwarranted and mean, served to reinforce the idea I had that maybe this relationship could work out... that I was what he was looking for. Now I know better, and now I do feel sorry for the girl he is with. He told me that he couldn't stand her, couldn't stand the way she talked... talking about someone like that, ex or not, is not a sign of a decent person. I guess I am better off.
Sorry for the rambling... it's getting late here. I just wanted to thank you all again, and please, if there is any more insight or relationship wisdom you can share, please do!
posted by enantio at 2:18 AM on October 2, 2011
I was, more than anything, really hurt and shocked that he would consider going back to her after he slept with her and hurt me. I do understand that I was the one who broke up with him in the end, but somehow, I feel that what he did (getting back together with her) was really insensitive. He promised he would do anything to win my trust back again, but now I chalk it up to naivete that I would believe he would treat me differently than he treated her. Part of the reason I thought to give him another chance was because (stupidly) I believed what he said about me having "long term potential" while she did not. At the time, his anger toward her, though I agree was unwarranted and mean, served to reinforce the idea I had that maybe this relationship could work out... that I was what he was looking for. Now I know better, and now I do feel sorry for the girl he is with. He told me that he couldn't stand her, couldn't stand the way she talked... talking about someone like that, ex or not, is not a sign of a decent person. I guess I am better off.
Sorry for the rambling... it's getting late here. I just wanted to thank you all again, and please, if there is any more insight or relationship wisdom you can share, please do!
posted by enantio at 2:18 AM on October 2, 2011
Everyone has already given you great red flag recognition advice about badmouthing (former) lovers, blaming others for own behavior and manipulation. I am so proud of you for asking for counsel, giving it due consideration and sifting through it for yourself - this bodes extremely well for a future, happy relationship. :)
I have just one thing to add to all the wise words above: in future you will now also be able to recognize and abort the But You're Special Routine.
You know, "Every other woman in my life has let me down, But You're Special." "Most women can be so egotistical, But You're Special." "All the women I know are so dependent on their friends, But You're Special." And of course, if you're new to this, you may very well try to live up to your lover's (usually fluctuating) definition of Specialness. You will fail. And your head will spin at how instantly you become Not Special when you do.
In your case, it was "I don't see long term potential with my ex, But You're Special." Give you even money that he was saying the exact same thing to her.
posted by likeso at 3:18 AM on October 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
I have just one thing to add to all the wise words above: in future you will now also be able to recognize and abort the But You're Special Routine.
You know, "Every other woman in my life has let me down, But You're Special." "Most women can be so egotistical, But You're Special." "All the women I know are so dependent on their friends, But You're Special." And of course, if you're new to this, you may very well try to live up to your lover's (usually fluctuating) definition of Specialness. You will fail. And your head will spin at how instantly you become Not Special when you do.
In your case, it was "I don't see long term potential with my ex, But You're Special." Give you even money that he was saying the exact same thing to her.
posted by likeso at 3:18 AM on October 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
Is he a jerk? I can't seem to get over him.
Yes, and time heals. That said, you may always have a little twinge when you think of him, and that's a good thing. The excitement of a first romance mingled with all that went wrong is what you get to keep with you so that in future romances, you remember to be a little wiser.
Am I stupid for still having feelings for this guy even when he treated me this way?
No - the feeling may not even be for the guy, but for the potential, the relationship and the parts of yourself that have been changed now.
Is he a jerk for doing these things?
Yes, but you could look at him as a gift, as well. You've just had a crash course in what doesn't make for a good partner.
But I would just like everyone's opinions on what they think he did wrong, or whether he did anything wrong after all... then I feel I can really move on. Was he being manipulative? Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals? Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex? Was it wrong of me to be so upset that he slept with her, when we weren't "officially" a couple?
There are many great answers to these questions, and I wish iamkimiam's was around for me many years ago. The answer to your questions above, the yes, no, no, and no are mainly because you are likely too sincere, trusting and perhaps a little naive due to age and inexperience. They shouldn't be bad things, but in the wrong hands...well, you see. It's a shame that getting a little toughened up when it comes to relationships equates to growing up when it comes to relationships - but this is what you just did.
posted by peagood at 5:10 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, and time heals. That said, you may always have a little twinge when you think of him, and that's a good thing. The excitement of a first romance mingled with all that went wrong is what you get to keep with you so that in future romances, you remember to be a little wiser.
Am I stupid for still having feelings for this guy even when he treated me this way?
No - the feeling may not even be for the guy, but for the potential, the relationship and the parts of yourself that have been changed now.
Is he a jerk for doing these things?
Yes, but you could look at him as a gift, as well. You've just had a crash course in what doesn't make for a good partner.
But I would just like everyone's opinions on what they think he did wrong, or whether he did anything wrong after all... then I feel I can really move on. Was he being manipulative? Was it wrong of me not to visit him during finals? Was it wrong of me to be angry that he got back together with his ex? Was it wrong of me to be so upset that he slept with her, when we weren't "officially" a couple?
There are many great answers to these questions, and I wish iamkimiam's was around for me many years ago. The answer to your questions above, the yes, no, no, and no are mainly because you are likely too sincere, trusting and perhaps a little naive due to age and inexperience. They shouldn't be bad things, but in the wrong hands...well, you see. It's a shame that getting a little toughened up when it comes to relationships equates to growing up when it comes to relationships - but this is what you just did.
posted by peagood at 5:10 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I bet that my first serious girlfriend, when I was 18, could have written almost the same question. I was super immature, and was learning how to be a boyfriend by making mistakes -- and I made plenty of them. She probably should have ditched my jerky ass (and I would have benefited, with that as a wake up call), but like you she was patient and forgiving and put up with immature nonsense that in retrospect is really embarrassing.
I don't think being young and inexperienced and making bad decisions makes anyone a bad person -- but it's also not something you need to stick around for. There are people at any age who manage to treat their partners with respect and caring, and those are the people you should be dating. Let this guy make his mistakes with someone else.
posted by Forktine at 5:55 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think being young and inexperienced and making bad decisions makes anyone a bad person -- but it's also not something you need to stick around for. There are people at any age who manage to treat their partners with respect and caring, and those are the people you should be dating. Let this guy make his mistakes with someone else.
posted by Forktine at 5:55 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was, more than anything, really hurt and shocked that he would consider going back to her after he slept with her and hurt me. I do understand that I was the one who broke up with him in the end, but somehow, I feel that what he did (getting back together with her) was really insensitive.
I totally understand how you feel shitty about this. By sleeping with her he made you feel insecure and anxious about her, and now by going back to her he's made those fears come true. It sucks from your standpoint, and you are not wrong for feeling angry and upset.
However, keep in mind that if you two are broken up, he really doesn't have any obligation to prioritize arranging his dating life so as not to hurt you.
It's possible he is dating her just to hurt you, which is shitty, but most likely he is dating her because a) he still has some feelings for her, which is why he slept with her in the first place; and b) he needs to be with someone, and getting back with an ex is an easy way to cut directly to being in a relationship without having to take the slow route of meeting someone, dating, etc.
His actions in this case may not be healthy or wise for him and the new old girlfriend, but it's probably not directed at you and it's ok for him to handle this "not about you" situation however he chooses.
You don't have to justify your anger at him over this by trying to determine if he can be blamed for being insensitive. This will just keep you stuck... once you decide he is "wrong" for doing this "to you", then you get hung up on things like needing him to understand he was wrong, wanting an apology, wanting "closure", nursing a grudge, and feeling like a victim (for some reason, victimhood often feels so good for wallowing in that you get stuck in it.)
If you go ahead and let yourself feel angry about what he did and how it made you feel, but let go of blaming him, you will find that you are over the relationship much faster.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 6:20 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I totally understand how you feel shitty about this. By sleeping with her he made you feel insecure and anxious about her, and now by going back to her he's made those fears come true. It sucks from your standpoint, and you are not wrong for feeling angry and upset.
However, keep in mind that if you two are broken up, he really doesn't have any obligation to prioritize arranging his dating life so as not to hurt you.
It's possible he is dating her just to hurt you, which is shitty, but most likely he is dating her because a) he still has some feelings for her, which is why he slept with her in the first place; and b) he needs to be with someone, and getting back with an ex is an easy way to cut directly to being in a relationship without having to take the slow route of meeting someone, dating, etc.
His actions in this case may not be healthy or wise for him and the new old girlfriend, but it's probably not directed at you and it's ok for him to handle this "not about you" situation however he chooses.
You don't have to justify your anger at him over this by trying to determine if he can be blamed for being insensitive. This will just keep you stuck... once you decide he is "wrong" for doing this "to you", then you get hung up on things like needing him to understand he was wrong, wanting an apology, wanting "closure", nursing a grudge, and feeling like a victim (for some reason, victimhood often feels so good for wallowing in that you get stuck in it.)
If you go ahead and let yourself feel angry about what he did and how it made you feel, but let go of blaming him, you will find that you are over the relationship much faster.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 6:20 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, he's a jerk.
There's a reason people ask you to look at the way a potential partner treats waiters or subordinates. You want to see what happens when they're in a position of power over someone i.e. is their behavior towards you and indicator of being a nice person or merely someone who wants something from you. The same thing goes for ex-girlfriends. Being angry towards former loved ones, blaming them for actions they were both equally responsible for, calling them names, these are all HUGE RED FLAGS. Frankly, you want someone who will treat you well even if you break up, because he's just a nice guy and it comes naturally.
posted by peacheater at 6:41 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's a reason people ask you to look at the way a potential partner treats waiters or subordinates. You want to see what happens when they're in a position of power over someone i.e. is their behavior towards you and indicator of being a nice person or merely someone who wants something from you. The same thing goes for ex-girlfriends. Being angry towards former loved ones, blaming them for actions they were both equally responsible for, calling them names, these are all HUGE RED FLAGS. Frankly, you want someone who will treat you well even if you break up, because he's just a nice guy and it comes naturally.
posted by peacheater at 6:41 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
mainly because he seemed really angry at her for "seducing him"
Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming this is all true, he may well *be* angry that she seduced him. But the red flag is that he is saying that to you. His response toward you should be regret and apology, not anger. Immature at best, manipulative at worst.
(Funny story: I happened to be in an office where pre-trial arbitration sessions were being held. Being a people-watcher, I noticed the behavior of some of the attorneys walking out of sessions. about a quarter of them would come out of the session and start in with their clients with "wow, that other guy made me mad, now I am going to win this case just to spite that other guy!" Gave me the screaming heebie-jeebies, because the manipulation was so obvious.)
posted by gjc at 7:04 AM on October 2, 2011
Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming this is all true, he may well *be* angry that she seduced him. But the red flag is that he is saying that to you. His response toward you should be regret and apology, not anger. Immature at best, manipulative at worst.
(Funny story: I happened to be in an office where pre-trial arbitration sessions were being held. Being a people-watcher, I noticed the behavior of some of the attorneys walking out of sessions. about a quarter of them would come out of the session and start in with their clients with "wow, that other guy made me mad, now I am going to win this case just to spite that other guy!" Gave me the screaming heebie-jeebies, because the manipulation was so obvious.)
posted by gjc at 7:04 AM on October 2, 2011
"I was, more than anything, really hurt and shocked that he would consider going back to her after he slept with her and hurt me. I do understand that I was the one who broke up with him in the end, but somehow, I feel that what he did (getting back together with her) was really insensitive."
Look, he got back together with her because they have some kind of dramarama thing going where he falls in love immediately, cheats on his girlfriend, claims they were on a break, has major mood swings, gets angry over petty things, and she seduces other people's boyfriends, controls who he's friends with on facebook, etc. He's back with her because neither of them has any boundaries and both of them behave in immature and hurtful ways. He doesn't want to be with you because you drew clear boundaries -- taking care of yourself first when you were tired, focusing on your school work instead of him during finals, not wanting to date a cheater -- and because you don't buy into his brand of drama -- you find it bizarre that someone would control someone else's facebook friends, you don't want to date a cheater, etc.
He was not looking for someone who behaves like a healthy adult in relationships. Everything you related here that he got upset with you about was you behaving in a normal, adult way and him being angry he couldn't obliterate your boundaries. Not that two normal, adult people in a relationship can't have disputes, even bitter ones, but this isn't about that. This is about an immature, manipulative person getting angry that he can't manipulate you. You're well shot of him.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:24 AM on October 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
Look, he got back together with her because they have some kind of dramarama thing going where he falls in love immediately, cheats on his girlfriend, claims they were on a break, has major mood swings, gets angry over petty things, and she seduces other people's boyfriends, controls who he's friends with on facebook, etc. He's back with her because neither of them has any boundaries and both of them behave in immature and hurtful ways. He doesn't want to be with you because you drew clear boundaries -- taking care of yourself first when you were tired, focusing on your school work instead of him during finals, not wanting to date a cheater -- and because you don't buy into his brand of drama -- you find it bizarre that someone would control someone else's facebook friends, you don't want to date a cheater, etc.
He was not looking for someone who behaves like a healthy adult in relationships. Everything you related here that he got upset with you about was you behaving in a normal, adult way and him being angry he couldn't obliterate your boundaries. Not that two normal, adult people in a relationship can't have disputes, even bitter ones, but this isn't about that. This is about an immature, manipulative person getting angry that he can't manipulate you. You're well shot of him.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:24 AM on October 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
He is a jerk. You can't help having feelings for him because you remember the romantic, charming part of him. This is the flip side of many jerks; that exciting,extravagant, romantic, total concentration on you and your relationship....as long as you are behaving exactly as he wants you to. Puts you on a pedestal, then knocks you down when his mood swings the other way. It is never really about you, but all about him.
This being a first relationship, you are very lucky to be questioning it now, and looking for the red flags in future relationships. All guys are not like this, but sometimes it takes longer to get to know the decent ones, and they do not seem as exciting at first.
Consider this a lesson, move on, an if he comes back to you again, run the other way.
posted by mermayd at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
This being a first relationship, you are very lucky to be questioning it now, and looking for the red flags in future relationships. All guys are not like this, but sometimes it takes longer to get to know the decent ones, and they do not seem as exciting at first.
Consider this a lesson, move on, an if he comes back to you again, run the other way.
posted by mermayd at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Aaaagh! I wish there were a class in college for freshman girls (and some guys too) called don't let the person you are dating treat you like crap. I went through this and so did many of my otherwise smart, independent, lovely, fabulous friends. For some reason I really can't fathom even 14 years later, we put up with lying, cheating, and abuse (emotional and yeah even physical in one particular case).
You wouldn't put up with a friend who lies and deceives you, why would you put up with that from someone you're dating? You have to love yourself and respect yourself and decide that you are worthy of being treated well. Anyone who doesn't treat you well (by cheating or lying or insulting you) is not worth your time. If you make that a rule now, your twenties will be a lot less painful. You won't date as much perhaps, but you'll be a lot happier.
posted by bananafish at 8:10 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
You wouldn't put up with a friend who lies and deceives you, why would you put up with that from someone you're dating? You have to love yourself and respect yourself and decide that you are worthy of being treated well. Anyone who doesn't treat you well (by cheating or lying or insulting you) is not worth your time. If you make that a rule now, your twenties will be a lot less painful. You won't date as much perhaps, but you'll be a lot happier.
posted by bananafish at 8:10 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
It was not wrong of you to expect to be treated better than this guy treated you. Doesn't matter if it's your first relationship or your fiftieth.
posted by peppermintfreddo at 4:01 AM on October 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by peppermintfreddo at 4:01 AM on October 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Word are easy; actions are honest.
posted by jay.eye.elle.elle. at 8:30 AM on October 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by jay.eye.elle.elle. at 8:30 AM on October 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Nthing that, yes, he acted fairly jerkishly. I'd also say, though, that in a couple of these situations you could have defined your feelings and expectations a little more clearly. One of the first things you should be doing in a new relationship is determining its boundaries and what you two are comfortable with. If you think you two should just be romantic towards each other, that's a conversation you should have and not presume. If it's ok to go on dates with other people but not to sleep with them, that's a conversation you should have. Maybe that doesn't sound romantic, but believe me, it will save you a lot of misunderstanding and confusion, and honestly being able to have that kind of conversation is a mark of maturity.
I'd get a little nervous if I spent a lot of time with someone and then they were just gone for a couple weeks, but that's because I've had people break up with me by just disappearing. It sounds like you were still talking to him and reassuring him that you were thinking about him and that this was a temporary and enforced absence, so I don't think you did anything wrong there. And, to be clear, even if you had done something wrong there, it wouldn't be justification for him treating you badly, although it might justify him being upset.
After you guys broke up, though, you really don't have the right to try to tell him what he should do with himself or his life. It's not necessarily wrong of you to be angry that he's doing something he told you he didn't like, which certainly indicates some manipulation or confusion on his part, but look, you guys broke up. Be mad if you're mad, but it's not your business anymore, so I'd keep that to yourself or have a complaining session with a friend. It's not really for you to tell him, though..
Having said all of that: no, it's not surprising you're still emotionally wrapped up in this guy. You had feelings and hopes for those feelings, and having your hopes dashed always sucks. Feeling angsty over a break-up is sort of par for the course. You're not stupid for grieving the death of a possibility. The next one will be better.
posted by Errant at 3:54 PM on October 4, 2011
I'd get a little nervous if I spent a lot of time with someone and then they were just gone for a couple weeks, but that's because I've had people break up with me by just disappearing. It sounds like you were still talking to him and reassuring him that you were thinking about him and that this was a temporary and enforced absence, so I don't think you did anything wrong there. And, to be clear, even if you had done something wrong there, it wouldn't be justification for him treating you badly, although it might justify him being upset.
After you guys broke up, though, you really don't have the right to try to tell him what he should do with himself or his life. It's not necessarily wrong of you to be angry that he's doing something he told you he didn't like, which certainly indicates some manipulation or confusion on his part, but look, you guys broke up. Be mad if you're mad, but it's not your business anymore, so I'd keep that to yourself or have a complaining session with a friend. It's not really for you to tell him, though..
Having said all of that: no, it's not surprising you're still emotionally wrapped up in this guy. You had feelings and hopes for those feelings, and having your hopes dashed always sucks. Feeling angsty over a break-up is sort of par for the course. You're not stupid for grieving the death of a possibility. The next one will be better.
posted by Errant at 3:54 PM on October 4, 2011
He almost certainly slept with someone else because you didn't sleep with him. How do I know you didn't sleep with him? From reading your other question. Withholding the information that you are a virgin in your 20s dating men who are not virgins, rather handicapped the people here trying to read your situation and help.
posted by w0mbat at 1:56 AM on November 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by w0mbat at 1:56 AM on November 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Yes, he's almost certainly a jerk. Nice, emotionally healthy, non-jerky people don't blame other people they've had sex with for having sex with them! This right here is a massive red flag and so is the rest of that second paragraph.
So he's almost certainly a jerk, and it didn't work out, and that happens with jerks and non-jerks alike, no need to over-think it. Move on and meet awesome people!
posted by crabintheocean at 10:50 PM on October 1, 2011 [17 favorites]