Zegna made to measure

September 3, 2011 3:12 PM

I'm trying to understand the difference between Bespoke and Made-to-Measure. Specifically I'm wondering about Zegna (Ermenegildo Zegna) Made-to-Measure service.

Part of me is like "why drop so much cash on something that's not bespoke" but from my research the lines on fit and quality kinda blur; something made by a local tailor is not necessarily 'better' than something made MTM by another. I guess I don't understand how to ask the tailor what exactly they're doing to figure out whether it's better than MTM. Any thoughts?

I want to start with a cashmere jacket. I will probably just go with a regular tailor cause of price concerns but just wondering

Something else that concerns me is one Zegna staffer assured me their MTM stuff is made in Switzerland another in France and I guess that trips my skepticism

posted by the mad poster! to Shopping (12 answers total)

Bespoke versus made-to-measure

Between the extremes of bespoke and ready-to-wear has existed, since the end of the 19th century,[n 4] a "grey area of garments for which the customer was measured, but that were then made up to the closest standard size, often, but by no means always, in a factory."[6] The distinction made here is between bespoke, created without use of a pre-existing pattern, and made to measure, which alters a standard-sized pattern to fit the customer.[7] Technological change makes this distinction more subtle, since "fittings are increasingly required for both bespoke and made-to-measure; a bespoke service may require an individually-cut pattern, which is then kept should further suits be required, and now made-to-measure measurements are often stored too, on a computer. Even hand-work, often cited as a benchmark of bespoke, is now increasingly found in made-to-measure garments, while machine-making plays some part in the creation of most bespoke suits".[5]

(from wikipedia)
posted by Danf at 3:23 PM on September 3, 2011

in my experience, 'bespoke' and 'made to measure' are pretty much the same thing...the term 'bespoke' generally has other uses outside of tailoring though...custom-made cars for example...
posted by sexyrobot at 3:23 PM on September 3, 2011

Pretty much what Danf says. Bespoke suits are a custom pattern. Check this English Cut article in how patterns are drafted. English Cut is a great read for anyone interested in bespoke suits.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:32 PM on September 3, 2011

Response by poster: Danf, yeah that paragraph from wikipedia is exactly part of what ended up confusing me a bit. I used to think that MTM is significantly different but now I'm not sure. I get that the bespoke 'fit' is better but what about the 'making'?

I found a site they discuss Zegna MTM on a fair amount: askandyaboutclothes and the impressions are wildly different from significantly unfavorable to very favorable. A lot of what people are discussing or complaining about here sounds specialized or nitpicky to me... like I'm not sure I'd care... but again with the prices maybe I should

I'm getting the sense these days that for a lot of these things what I need want to do is travel and go to the main boutiques / stockists of brands to get the best customizations and services rather than go to their international retail locations...

on preview: Ad hominem, yeah that's a great site I used to follow. So I just ask a tailor if they make a custom pattern?
posted by the mad poster! at 3:40 PM on September 3, 2011

Best answer: MTM around here (SW Virginia) implies that there is tons of pre-made patternwork and some guides on how to put them together. You get measured, they pull the patterns that closest fit your measurements, place them together, and they mark to that. Bespoke means that the steps between measurement and marking involve more tweaking, second visits for hand-fitting, etc.

The quality difference between bespoke and MTM depends a lot on your shape. If you're close to average and therefore your MTM man will be able to piece together your shape from patterns, great. (And I don't just mean basic measurements, but also your lines between measurement points, like shoulder taper, etc.) If you're an oddball and they have to force the existing pattern pieces to fit, guess lines in between, etc., then odds are something will come out wrong. With bespoke, you'll spot those in the later fitting visits and they can be adjusted to fit perfectly.

As always, a lot comes down to money and how available good tailoring skill is in your area.
posted by introp at 3:54 PM on September 3, 2011

Response by poster: just found this dissection of a Zegna off-the-rack coat. Then I compared the suit coat from my tailor. Alas my coat is trash in comparison. So I guess we have the "is Ready-to-Wear or MTM always worse than local tailoring" question answered...
posted by the mad poster! at 4:02 PM on September 3, 2011

The Bergdorf Men's tailor + Zegna is an awesome combination.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 4:50 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Where are you? I'd suggest going on Styleforum and searching for MTM or bespoke options in your area. That will be more efficient than trying to research specific brands.
posted by mullacc at 4:52 PM on September 3, 2011

Response by poster: I'm trying to learn from Styleforum but they have a bias against medium-expensive stuff that kinda throws me off a bit. Not everyone wants to go either thrift store or extremely high end
posted by the mad poster! at 4:56 PM on September 3, 2011

Response by poster: I'll check out more tailors in my city though. What I really want is the high-end fabrics so if we can get the fabrics from Zegna or something comparable and then go with good bespoke tailoring separate from that brand it's a good solution.. I'm assuming that's what you mean RJ Reynolds?
posted by the mad poster! at 5:10 PM on September 3, 2011

Best answer: The make discussion of a Zegna coat that you linked, in failing to open the coat enough to expose the front canvas structure (or its lesser quality fusible replacement), the lapel structure and the full armhole make was pretty superficial. They just assume, without visible proof, that the lapel canvas was actually blindstitched instead of fused, and that there was "nothing to see" at the armhole, since they felt the lining had been closed via handstitching.

Hand made buttonholes, visible bartacks, and "hand" felling are cheap, easily ballyhooed lipstick on many garment pigs. In any dress coat, understand your patterns and your canvas, fully, to understand your make. On a quality make, any shell and lining will improve, but the best will improve more.
posted by paulsc at 5:33 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: yeah my conclusion is to hold off on big upfront investments until I know how to really analyze these things to some degree
posted by the mad poster! at 1:19 AM on September 4, 2011