Love, security and freedom: we love each other deeply and passionately but also want and need different things... and now we have a baby on the way.
September 1, 2011 4:19 AM
Love, security and freedom: we love each other deeply and passionately but also want and need different things... and now we have a baby on the way.
hen my fiance and I met and fell in love 18 months ago it was like a crazy, big explosion of true love and endless promise. We both had - and still have - a profound sense of having met 'the one', and a deep sense of 'rightness' about our togetherness.
Of course neither of us were seeking or expecting to fall in love. She was living in the countryside, in the process of separating herself and her young child from her husband (the last thing she was looking for was to meet someone else). I was a bachelor living the central city bachelor life and enjoying huge amounts of personal freedom.
Fast forward a year and a bit. We still love each other deeply and dearly. And yet we are trying to reconcile that we want different things (or at least think we need and thrive on different things). I am someone who has worked hard to consciously become relatively financially free and location independent. When we met I was on the cusp of heading overseas - moving country to country - with no forward plan other than to continue running my businesses remotely and to explore the people and places of the world. She is someone who - over a number of years - had worked hard to build a nice home initially for herself and her family at the time. At the time when we met she had only just achieved her long, deeply-felt goal of owning a home of her own.
Since then she left her husband and I have shelved plans to travel and she has moved out of the home she had only just secured (the ex-husband) stayed there as part of the settlement. I have moved to where she is in the countryside in order to minimise disruption to her and her daughter.
Over the last year we have had this recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free' and 'she needs to feel more secure' come up again and again. I have struggled with the the move away from the city, into the countryside and - even though i love her daughter to bits and she is generally an angel - i have also found it difficult adjusting to the daily rhythm and needs of a small child (5 years old). For her part, my lovely fiance has found it difficult that she is no longer a married woman and that she no longer has the family unit that she did. And yet the one thing we know is that we love each other deeply
What to do?
hen my fiance and I met and fell in love 18 months ago it was like a crazy, big explosion of true love and endless promise. We both had - and still have - a profound sense of having met 'the one', and a deep sense of 'rightness' about our togetherness.
Of course neither of us were seeking or expecting to fall in love. She was living in the countryside, in the process of separating herself and her young child from her husband (the last thing she was looking for was to meet someone else). I was a bachelor living the central city bachelor life and enjoying huge amounts of personal freedom.
Fast forward a year and a bit. We still love each other deeply and dearly. And yet we are trying to reconcile that we want different things (or at least think we need and thrive on different things). I am someone who has worked hard to consciously become relatively financially free and location independent. When we met I was on the cusp of heading overseas - moving country to country - with no forward plan other than to continue running my businesses remotely and to explore the people and places of the world. She is someone who - over a number of years - had worked hard to build a nice home initially for herself and her family at the time. At the time when we met she had only just achieved her long, deeply-felt goal of owning a home of her own.
Since then she left her husband and I have shelved plans to travel and she has moved out of the home she had only just secured (the ex-husband) stayed there as part of the settlement. I have moved to where she is in the countryside in order to minimise disruption to her and her daughter.
Over the last year we have had this recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free' and 'she needs to feel more secure' come up again and again. I have struggled with the the move away from the city, into the countryside and - even though i love her daughter to bits and she is generally an angel - i have also found it difficult adjusting to the daily rhythm and needs of a small child (5 years old). For her part, my lovely fiance has found it difficult that she is no longer a married woman and that she no longer has the family unit that she did. And yet the one thing we know is that we love each other deeply
What to do?
I don't know, but your choices here seem strange. I mean, here is a woman already a mother, with a soon to be school age child, who you propose to, and impregnate, and now you are surprised she doesn't want to trot willy-nilly from country to country? Everything you have done has signaled "settle down." I question whether her wants should be seen as a need for security, as opposed to just a call to reality. However, I know a family who has moved to a different country more than once. This has been done with careful planning for the kids, and for long (5-10 year) stretches. Perhaps that could work for you -- but you should get married first. If you ask her to uproot her life and take her children to a country where she may have no economic opportunities, she is taking a huge risk -- the risk of serious poverty for herself and the kids if you should leave her. Good luck. I fear you have progressed down a path you weren't intending to, but you know what? Here you are. You are going to be a dad.
posted by Malla at 4:39 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by Malla at 4:39 AM on September 1, 2011
I am someone who has worked hard to consciously become relatively financially free and location independent. When we met I was on the cusp of heading overseas - moving country to country - with no forward plan
Over the last year we have had this recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free'
Well, sucks to be you. Because, guess what, you're having a kid! Like parents the world over, you now have to sacrifice some of your snowflake needs and wants for someone else's needs and wants. Kids need parents who have some forward plan in life that involves them.
My dad left my mom when I was a baby never to show up again, leaving me with some mega-strong resentment issues with men who bail on their kids, so maybe take what I say with a grain of salt, but: you're having a baby, dude. You don't even mention this baby outside of the first few sentences of the post (I had to reread again to get a handle on your situation), but a baby is a-coming. Maybe this means moving to a cool city in the same country as your... wife? girlfriend?... and becoming a weekend dad, maybe it means getting married, becoming an awesome stepdad/dad to your growing family, but YOUR dreams of living a care-free, responsibility life effectively ended as soon as you and your lady decided to have a baby. Sorry.
Babies, by the way, don't mean necessarily living in the suburbs, driving minivans and hating your life. Kids live in neat places, too. I know people whose parents were zoologists and they lived all over Africa for their childhood, studying animal footprints.
However, you need to change your attitude, like, yesterday, and face the realization that you don't always get what you want in life. If you truly Love your fiancé Deeply, do the right thing by being a good partner for her (in whatever capacity works best for you two) by parenting your new child together.
posted by zoomorphic at 4:42 AM on September 1, 2011
Over the last year we have had this recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free'
Well, sucks to be you. Because, guess what, you're having a kid! Like parents the world over, you now have to sacrifice some of your snowflake needs and wants for someone else's needs and wants. Kids need parents who have some forward plan in life that involves them.
My dad left my mom when I was a baby never to show up again, leaving me with some mega-strong resentment issues with men who bail on their kids, so maybe take what I say with a grain of salt, but: you're having a baby, dude. You don't even mention this baby outside of the first few sentences of the post (I had to reread again to get a handle on your situation), but a baby is a-coming. Maybe this means moving to a cool city in the same country as your... wife? girlfriend?... and becoming a weekend dad, maybe it means getting married, becoming an awesome stepdad/dad to your growing family, but YOUR dreams of living a care-free, responsibility life effectively ended as soon as you and your lady decided to have a baby. Sorry.
Babies, by the way, don't mean necessarily living in the suburbs, driving minivans and hating your life. Kids live in neat places, too. I know people whose parents were zoologists and they lived all over Africa for their childhood, studying animal footprints.
However, you need to change your attitude, like, yesterday, and face the realization that you don't always get what you want in life. If you truly Love your fiancé Deeply, do the right thing by being a good partner for her (in whatever capacity works best for you two) by parenting your new child together.
posted by zoomorphic at 4:42 AM on September 1, 2011
What to do?
I honestly don't see what the big issue is. Stay and build the home. Take as many vacations as a family as you can. Rethink the idea of a vacation, i.e. day trips to some corner of your state, hiking in the woods or a nearby state (Yes, I'm assuming your American. Adjust terms if needed). If needed, take regular vacations for yourself. Do bring a camera and share your experiences with the family.
Your wife has the stability she wants, you'll get some of the adventure you crave. No, it won't be like you were single, but that doesn't mean it's the end of the world. You just have adjust your expectations and dreams. In return you get the priceless gift of family and love.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:50 AM on September 1, 2011
I honestly don't see what the big issue is. Stay and build the home. Take as many vacations as a family as you can. Rethink the idea of a vacation, i.e. day trips to some corner of your state, hiking in the woods or a nearby state (Yes, I'm assuming your American. Adjust terms if needed). If needed, take regular vacations for yourself. Do bring a camera and share your experiences with the family.
Your wife has the stability she wants, you'll get some of the adventure you crave. No, it won't be like you were single, but that doesn't mean it's the end of the world. You just have adjust your expectations and dreams. In return you get the priceless gift of family and love.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:50 AM on September 1, 2011
It might be worth mentioning that when you met her, she would still have likely been struggling with the fall-out of her split with her ex. This would probably throw up all sorts of security issues, and the need to find some "settledness" to fill the gap left could have been very strong.
If you demonstrate to her (as is rather, now more than ever with a baby on the way, your duty as her partner) that in you she has a safe and secure future, and I mean this in terms of love and trust rather than living arrangements, it may be that when she has overcome these feelings (a little therapy as well to help it along perhaps) she is open to the idea of travelling, as a family, and living in other environments.
posted by greenish at 4:53 AM on September 1, 2011
If you demonstrate to her (as is rather, now more than ever with a baby on the way, your duty as her partner) that in you she has a safe and secure future, and I mean this in terms of love and trust rather than living arrangements, it may be that when she has overcome these feelings (a little therapy as well to help it along perhaps) she is open to the idea of travelling, as a family, and living in other environments.
posted by greenish at 4:53 AM on September 1, 2011
You're going to be a dad, goodbye freedom! As others have said, you need to reconstruct your world view a bit. Maybe for you that means taking lots of fun family vacations. Please don't sacrifice your new baby and family for a "feeling" that you want more freedom. Whatever plans you want now need to include them or else you're just a selfish dad who bails. I don't mean to sound harsh but the time for asking this question was before the engagement and certainly before the choice not to use birth control.
posted by katypickle at 4:58 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by katypickle at 4:58 AM on September 1, 2011
As a mom to a toddler, I would also feel the need for more security if my husband and father of our child expressed a "recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free'". You love her so now you need to show her that you are willing to put your need for freedom aside for the sake of her, her child and your soon to be born baby.
I am mindful that this is not easy. I had a mourning period for my previously "free" baby-free life. But I made the choice to have a child and had to come to the adult decision that this choice has the consequence of diminished freedom. You likewise need to accept responsibility for your choices, take the time you need to mourn for your old way of life, but for the love of all things good and decent, give the mother of your unborn child the security of knowing that you will be there--freely and happily.
posted by murrey at 5:06 AM on September 1, 2011
I am mindful that this is not easy. I had a mourning period for my previously "free" baby-free life. But I made the choice to have a child and had to come to the adult decision that this choice has the consequence of diminished freedom. You likewise need to accept responsibility for your choices, take the time you need to mourn for your old way of life, but for the love of all things good and decent, give the mother of your unborn child the security of knowing that you will be there--freely and happily.
posted by murrey at 5:06 AM on September 1, 2011
I was just discussing with another dad that having a baby truly marks the beginning of adult-hood. Sure, most people THINK they are adults before they have kids, but it just ain't true. The reason is that becoming a parent means putting another's needs ahead of your own. Reflexively. Instinctively. Constantly. It's just a completely different, non-self-oriented perspective.
Sounds like you don't want to give up your childhood. I have no idea how old you are in terms of years, but how well you engage this transition depends on how willing you are to become an adult in the true sense of the word.
FWIW.
posted by zachawry at 5:13 AM on September 1, 2011
Sounds like you don't want to give up your childhood. I have no idea how old you are in terms of years, but how well you engage this transition depends on how willing you are to become an adult in the true sense of the word.
FWIW.
posted by zachawry at 5:13 AM on September 1, 2011
If I was pregnant with your child, already had one child, and you were constantly bringing up your need to feel free while your kid was growing inside of me, I think I would be raising one holy hell of a fit. It is a testament to your partner's patience and love for you that this is a discussion you two have been able to have (as seems to be indicated by your question) on calm terms.
Freedom is valuable to you, but the love of a partner is more valuable to you than freedom.
Sit with that a second. That may not be what you intended for yourself, but all of your actions in the last two years indicate that this is how your priorities fall.
However, you also seem somewhat unconscious of this priority shift that has already been happening in your life. That is why a lot of the responses you are getting amount to "WAKE UP, dude."
I don't think this is a matter of her need to feel secure and your need to be free, even though that is what it looks like on the surface. I think this is a matter of the two of you figuring out what kind of family you want to be. Yes, family, because you skipped the "just of two of us traipsing around Europe phase." It sounds like you don't want to have a family life that looks like what she and her ex-husband have. Well, good news! Neither does she. She left that behind for a reason, and picked you, a free-ish spirit. It also sounds like she doesn't want the burden of taking care of three children. Yes, three. That's what happens when Dad chooses not to be a partner-parent, and thinks that his need to play is priority number one.
So, you take what you know so far: 1) you love each other 2) you want an interesting life and start making a game plan. That number two needs be defined a bit more, though. Like, super specifics. Frankly, your previous plan was not much of a plan either. It was more a blow in the wind kind of thing. Therefore: What constitutes an interesting life? Slow travel? Are you financially able to keep a basecamp home in the states and do a long-term rental in another country for three+ months of the year? Where the whole family comes along? If that isn't possible, you should hash out something that is a compromise for you both.
The point is, you're getting married, you BOTH are, and it is time to stop talking about "this is what I want for my life" and start talking about "what do we want for our life." If you don't have this conversation now, with the attendant conversation about each other's careers, who will do what chores, what roles each of you will take in raising these children, no amount of deeply felt love will save you. We may live in a time when gender roles are more fluid, but that just means we have to be more intentional about who does what in a household, all in the service of creating that life that could be.
I have a failed marriage behind me, that was based in a deeply felt love, because we did not have these conversations. I can't imagine how much harder that would be with children involved. It is time to reimagine your future and for both of you to get on board with a shared vision.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 5:54 AM on September 1, 2011
Freedom is valuable to you, but the love of a partner is more valuable to you than freedom.
Sit with that a second. That may not be what you intended for yourself, but all of your actions in the last two years indicate that this is how your priorities fall.
However, you also seem somewhat unconscious of this priority shift that has already been happening in your life. That is why a lot of the responses you are getting amount to "WAKE UP, dude."
I don't think this is a matter of her need to feel secure and your need to be free, even though that is what it looks like on the surface. I think this is a matter of the two of you figuring out what kind of family you want to be. Yes, family, because you skipped the "just of two of us traipsing around Europe phase." It sounds like you don't want to have a family life that looks like what she and her ex-husband have. Well, good news! Neither does she. She left that behind for a reason, and picked you, a free-ish spirit. It also sounds like she doesn't want the burden of taking care of three children. Yes, three. That's what happens when Dad chooses not to be a partner-parent, and thinks that his need to play is priority number one.
So, you take what you know so far: 1) you love each other 2) you want an interesting life and start making a game plan. That number two needs be defined a bit more, though. Like, super specifics. Frankly, your previous plan was not much of a plan either. It was more a blow in the wind kind of thing. Therefore: What constitutes an interesting life? Slow travel? Are you financially able to keep a basecamp home in the states and do a long-term rental in another country for three+ months of the year? Where the whole family comes along? If that isn't possible, you should hash out something that is a compromise for you both.
The point is, you're getting married, you BOTH are, and it is time to stop talking about "this is what I want for my life" and start talking about "what do we want for our life." If you don't have this conversation now, with the attendant conversation about each other's careers, who will do what chores, what roles each of you will take in raising these children, no amount of deeply felt love will save you. We may live in a time when gender roles are more fluid, but that just means we have to be more intentional about who does what in a household, all in the service of creating that life that could be.
I have a failed marriage behind me, that was based in a deeply felt love, because we did not have these conversations. I can't imagine how much harder that would be with children involved. It is time to reimagine your future and for both of you to get on board with a shared vision.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 5:54 AM on September 1, 2011
Well, suppose you blow this off and travel the world, sending checks for child support. The likely outcome is a lifetime of guilt over abandoning these people and regret over the emotional distance you'll have from people who wanted to love you. Or maybe you harden up and become a stone to everyone. It doesn't sound like you're there yet, so there's hope.
On the other hand, if you stick with your fiancée, marry her, throw yourself into family life wholeheartedly, adapt to the rhythms of the 5-year-old and soon the newborn, and make this your life for a few years, then you make four people's lives warmer and richer forever after. I'm not saying it won't be rough at first, but I understand the kids part gets better. And I know the marriage part gets great with reasonable care.
That may satisfy your fiancée's need for commitment and security, so maybe she bends on the mobility issue. Then, you have a 2-3 year goal of becoming a family like those who are attached to the military or to international companies, dragging kids all over the world. It's not the easiest way to raise a family, but people do it. I imagine having emotional/relationship stability is key.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:55 AM on September 1, 2011
On the other hand, if you stick with your fiancée, marry her, throw yourself into family life wholeheartedly, adapt to the rhythms of the 5-year-old and soon the newborn, and make this your life for a few years, then you make four people's lives warmer and richer forever after. I'm not saying it won't be rough at first, but I understand the kids part gets better. And I know the marriage part gets great with reasonable care.
That may satisfy your fiancée's need for commitment and security, so maybe she bends on the mobility issue. Then, you have a 2-3 year goal of becoming a family like those who are attached to the military or to international companies, dragging kids all over the world. It's not the easiest way to raise a family, but people do it. I imagine having emotional/relationship stability is key.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:55 AM on September 1, 2011
There are a lot of people on MetaFilter, and in the world, who struggle with issues related to trust, self-esteem and resentment, and who have a hard time maintaining stable adult relationships of their own, because they had selfish parents who put their own needs and desires ahead of their children's. For the good of all mankind, please don't pass that down.
You're going to be on the hook financially and legally for this child for the next 18 years. You might as well try to enjoy it. Take a deep breath and try to imagine your life and dreams in the context of being part of a loving family, rather than a lone wolf. You might like what you see.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:56 AM on September 1, 2011
You're going to be on the hook financially and legally for this child for the next 18 years. You might as well try to enjoy it. Take a deep breath and try to imagine your life and dreams in the context of being part of a loving family, rather than a lone wolf. You might like what you see.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:56 AM on September 1, 2011
Your fiancée has been through the blender in the past few years. Whatever need for security and routine is inherent in being married/having a family has probably been greatly magnified by all the disruption, uncertainty, and flat-out scariness of everything that's happened to her lately. It's great to be in love and all, but if I were in her shoes, there would probably be moments when I would be overwhelmed and terrified about the future.
So I think first and foremost, if you want to turn your love for her from a noun into a verb, you need to have a huge amount sympathy for her need to feel like the future is safe and predictable and that things are going to be OK.
posted by drlith at 6:06 AM on September 1, 2011
So I think first and foremost, if you want to turn your love for her from a noun into a verb, you need to have a huge amount sympathy for her need to feel like the future is safe and predictable and that things are going to be OK.
posted by drlith at 6:06 AM on September 1, 2011
Also, I've been where you've been, bachelor chafing at the reins of marriage and kids. One thing that helped was simply taking the kid with whenever I felt the urge to get out and do something. Granted it wasn't travel the world, but when I had a day off and felt the need to get in a car and go, I'd take the kid with me and we'd stroll around town or travel the backwoods of Georgia to see what the hell was out there. Other times, it an afternoon at the movies. No, those trips weren't the wild, carefree trips of bachelor hood (note: bring snacks for the kid), but they were something and it helped us bond, helped her grow and experience new things.
Long story short: It wasn't what I was looking and planning for, but it was still pretty good time. That probably sums up most of parenthood.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 AM on September 1, 2011
Long story short: It wasn't what I was looking and planning for, but it was still pretty good time. That probably sums up most of parenthood.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 AM on September 1, 2011
You two seem to want such different things. I'm not sure why you both feel you've "found the one" (I don't believe there is "the one" btw) and feel such a "sense of rightness" when you have such opposing goals and desires. Most people feel that sense of rightness when they share these things. As the old saying goes, "A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where are they going to live?"
Anyway your question is: What to do? As I see it, your options are:
1) Stay in the countryside with her.
2) Move her and her daughter back into the city.
3) Leave them both and move back into the city or to another country without them.
If you find a 5 year old disruptive and difficult, you're probably in for a rude shock when the baby arrives. I'm sympathetic to a point, but, pregnancy is preventable. Actions have consequences. Sounds like you're going to be a dad so your choice now is how you're going to handle this responsibility, this situation that didn't just happen to you - you created it.
I think in life, you can have it all but you can't always have it all at once. The choices you've made over the past year or so are impacting your future. Now is the time to take a hard look at yourself. What are you made of?
Wishing you a happy and healthy baby.
posted by Kangaroo at 6:16 AM on September 1, 2011
Anyway your question is: What to do? As I see it, your options are:
1) Stay in the countryside with her.
2) Move her and her daughter back into the city.
3) Leave them both and move back into the city or to another country without them.
If you find a 5 year old disruptive and difficult, you're probably in for a rude shock when the baby arrives. I'm sympathetic to a point, but, pregnancy is preventable. Actions have consequences. Sounds like you're going to be a dad so your choice now is how you're going to handle this responsibility, this situation that didn't just happen to you - you created it.
I think in life, you can have it all but you can't always have it all at once. The choices you've made over the past year or so are impacting your future. Now is the time to take a hard look at yourself. What are you made of?
Wishing you a happy and healthy baby.
posted by Kangaroo at 6:16 AM on September 1, 2011
18 months is not a very long time. Suck it up for s couple more years and then the four of you can start having more fun.
posted by bq at 6:27 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by bq at 6:27 AM on September 1, 2011
ImperialLeather: "Love, security and freedom: we love each other deeply and passionately but also want and need different things... and now we have a baby on the way.
What to do?"
What to do? For real??
You're in a committed relationship; the only conflict here is that you want out.
You need to be completely honest; if this isn't going to work for you, then you need to get the hell away from her and allow her to live her life with someone who isn't so ambivalent about making a future together. Just think about how ridiculously unfair you're being to her.
And if that's the route you take, you had better step up, be a hands-on father and tell anyone else you ever date in the future what exactly you did to this poor woman.
Or you man up, stay with this woman who you apparently love deeply and passionately (but y'know, not enough to stay with) and become a father.
Lastly, she's a pregnant woman. This is her time to be nurtured and cared for. To think that you're actually telling her that you want more freedom...well...I feel really badly for her.
posted by kinetic at 6:27 AM on September 1, 2011
What to do?"
What to do? For real??
You're in a committed relationship; the only conflict here is that you want out.
You need to be completely honest; if this isn't going to work for you, then you need to get the hell away from her and allow her to live her life with someone who isn't so ambivalent about making a future together. Just think about how ridiculously unfair you're being to her.
And if that's the route you take, you had better step up, be a hands-on father and tell anyone else you ever date in the future what exactly you did to this poor woman.
Or you man up, stay with this woman who you apparently love deeply and passionately (but y'know, not enough to stay with) and become a father.
Lastly, she's a pregnant woman. This is her time to be nurtured and cared for. To think that you're actually telling her that you want more freedom...well...I feel really badly for her.
posted by kinetic at 6:27 AM on September 1, 2011
I am someone who has worked hard to consciously become relatively financially free and location independent.
No, you are someone who moved to the countryside and started a family.
Your problem is 95% about the way you perceive yourself. If you really wanted to do those things you talk about wanting to do, you probably would have done them.
posted by hermitosis at 6:29 AM on September 1, 2011
No, you are someone who moved to the countryside and started a family.
Your problem is 95% about the way you perceive yourself. If you really wanted to do those things you talk about wanting to do, you probably would have done them.
posted by hermitosis at 6:29 AM on September 1, 2011
I'm a divorced mom of two kids. I've been dating this guy who I'm crazy about (relatively quickly after the divorce), but in the back of my mind I always worry about whether he loves me like he says he does. But then I stop worrying and remember that he has decided to stay here with me (in Alaska for chrisakes) even though he wants to travel and maybe teach somewhere else or live somewhere else and even though he had big plans to do so before he met me.
I know he loves me because he stays. He stays and he loves my kids. Really loves them. HE REALLY LOVES US!!
posted by madred at 6:35 AM on September 1, 2011
I know he loves me because he stays. He stays and he loves my kids. Really loves them. HE REALLY LOVES US!!
posted by madred at 6:35 AM on September 1, 2011
Oh, and by the way, I want to travel too. A lot. We are planning on a big European Vacation next year sometime. You can travel with kids AND own a home you know. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
posted by madred at 6:38 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by madred at 6:38 AM on September 1, 2011
One more thing... (sorry).
I'll bet you're terrified. It's OK. All the really good stuff in life is terrifying. I had some long talks with the Boyfriend about fear. We're both fearful. But we try to be brave in the face of love. There is nothing more worthy of being courageous about than love.
And there are no fucking rules to having a family...you do NOT have to become Ward Cleaver.
posted by madred at 6:43 AM on September 1, 2011
I'll bet you're terrified. It's OK. All the really good stuff in life is terrifying. I had some long talks with the Boyfriend about fear. We're both fearful. But we try to be brave in the face of love. There is nothing more worthy of being courageous about than love.
And there are no fucking rules to having a family...you do NOT have to become Ward Cleaver.
posted by madred at 6:43 AM on September 1, 2011
Is the baby definitely on the way? Like, there's no way she'd consider abortion or it's a bit late for it? Also, if there's any resentment or suspicion about how she got pregnant you need to deal with that ASAP because it's not the baby's fault. And definitely don't be like "baby, I never wanted you". Just trust me on that one.
I came here to say something like this. Especially if there's any chance it isn't clear to her how you feel. But I may be off base in terms of what your situation is, because it isn't at all clear to me from your post. (To me, "we want different things" is a code way of saying "we need to break up," and you whole post kind of feels that way-- except for the part where you are passionately in love.)
posted by BibiRose at 7:30 AM on September 1, 2011
I came here to say something like this. Especially if there's any chance it isn't clear to her how you feel. But I may be off base in terms of what your situation is, because it isn't at all clear to me from your post. (To me, "we want different things" is a code way of saying "we need to break up," and you whole post kind of feels that way-- except for the part where you are passionately in love.)
posted by BibiRose at 7:30 AM on September 1, 2011
"Put your ego in your pocket and keep it there. It's all about her now."
These were the wise wise words of one of my husband's older friends upon hearing we were pregnant. It's pretty hard making a person, even if your fiance has done it before. You don't seem to know this.
Uh. Are you sure you love this woman?
posted by jbenben at 9:14 AM on September 1, 2011
These were the wise wise words of one of my husband's older friends upon hearing we were pregnant. It's pretty hard making a person, even if your fiance has done it before. You don't seem to know this.
Uh. Are you sure you love this woman?
posted by jbenben at 9:14 AM on September 1, 2011
Because this is your first question, you didn't get the opportunity to benefit from the collected wisdom here eighteen months ago when it might have been:
We met and fell in love when I was on the cusp of heading overseas - moving country to country - with no forward plan other than to continue running my businesses remotely and to explore the people and places of the world. I was a bachelor living the central city bachelor life and enjoying huge amounts of personal freedom. She was living in the countryside, in the process of separating herself and her young child from her husband (the last thing she was looking for was to meet someone else). She is someone who - over a number of years - had worked hard to build a nice home initially for herself and her family at the time. At the time when we met she had only just achieved her long, deeply-felt goal of owning a home of her own. Since then she left her husband and I have shelved plans to travel and she has moved out of the home she had only just secured (the ex-husband) stayed there as part of the settlement. It was like a crazy, big explosion of true love and endless promise. We both have a profound sense of having met 'the one', and a deep sense of 'rightness' about our togetherness. Of course neither of us were seeking or expecting to fall in love. What to do?
The advice might have run the gamut from "Go for it! True love is AWESOME!" to "Please proceed carefully - there's a child involved, and separations and subsequent divorce can be messy and it may be best to wait until it's all settled and then see if it all seems so attractive." and it probably would have some of the skeptics saying "Wait - "in the process of separating" means she was still kind of with her husband, right? Not separated means that, right? Drama! Doesn't make for a good start! Do you want to be that guy?" and then I would have chimed in: "My advice, when confronted with explosions of TRUE LOVE and endless promise, having had some of that sweet elixir myself, would have been along the lines of "I think people fall in like and infatuation and experience passion, not love in those early stages when all that's going on. I think the TRUE LOVE comes from from doing, and acting - not just feeling. Give it time, and when all is free and clear and you're both sure this is what you want for everyone involved, especially the child, begin as you wish it to end. The true love part, surprisingly isn't felt in your tingly bits - it come from things like your bringing her coffee every morning in her favourite cup; the sitting together in hospital rooms and funeral homes and real estate offices and teacher conferences; both of you making sure the boring uglies are taken care of so that the sublime parts have room to happen, and not building castles on wishes with only rainbows for beams (sorry)
But, you know - we can't go back in time (yet) and the heart wants what it wants and well, the sperm does what it does when you haven't taken every precaution there is in 2011. And I can see that others are reading into your question what I am - "I feel trapped - but don't worry - we have this deep looooooooove for each other. But I feel trapped."
This recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free' and 'she needs to feel more secure' comes up again and again because loooove does not conquer that.
You have struggled with the the move away from the city, into the countryside and - even though you love her daughter to bits and she is generally an angel and you have also found it difficult adjusting to the daily rhythm and needs of a small child (5 years old) because you've likely made the majority of the compromises, which is unequal and leads to resentment; as well, because you could and she couldn't, and because you maybe felt guilty about your part in the separation and being involved in that child's life really too soon after; and yes, because of "loooooove".
For her part, your lovely fiance has found it difficult that she is no longer a married woman to her old husband and already has a fiancee and that she no longer has the family unit that she did because it hasn't been all that long since it was ended, and it never ends because they have a child together, (and maybe she didn't end it as well as she might have if you weren't involved) and is now jumping into a new one with someone she loooooooves but can't necessarily count on.
And yet the one thing we know is that you love each other deeply, though in life, that is not always what gets you through. After all, she loooved the other guy once too.
So, my answer is, here and now because you didn't ask eighteen months ago: Ask yourself "What would a person of quality do from this point on?" And then be that guy, even if it isn't who and where and what you are right now. Because that will help you through it. And yes, even as the young rope-rider asserted, you can have what each of you want, as long as you're both responsible for your parts in it. mrgood "gets" to have a band (fine - three bands) and produce shows and take gigs out of town and travel because all his ducks are in a row here - and I'm happy to "let" him because I have no worries. It's not about the looooove, it's not even about the trust or the wants - it's that a life together can be built where each person is satisfied enough to continue along the same path indefinitely. But you know - built, not conjured.
If you're both standing only facing each other all goopy with love, you can't see outward. Stand next to each other and face forward. Then proceed. After a while, look back and you'll see the love, and when you turn around to continue, it will be there too.
posted by peagood at 9:55 AM on September 1, 2011
We met and fell in love when I was on the cusp of heading overseas - moving country to country - with no forward plan other than to continue running my businesses remotely and to explore the people and places of the world. I was a bachelor living the central city bachelor life and enjoying huge amounts of personal freedom. She was living in the countryside, in the process of separating herself and her young child from her husband (the last thing she was looking for was to meet someone else). She is someone who - over a number of years - had worked hard to build a nice home initially for herself and her family at the time. At the time when we met she had only just achieved her long, deeply-felt goal of owning a home of her own. Since then she left her husband and I have shelved plans to travel and she has moved out of the home she had only just secured (the ex-husband) stayed there as part of the settlement. It was like a crazy, big explosion of true love and endless promise. We both have a profound sense of having met 'the one', and a deep sense of 'rightness' about our togetherness. Of course neither of us were seeking or expecting to fall in love. What to do?
The advice might have run the gamut from "Go for it! True love is AWESOME!" to "Please proceed carefully - there's a child involved, and separations and subsequent divorce can be messy and it may be best to wait until it's all settled and then see if it all seems so attractive." and it probably would have some of the skeptics saying "Wait - "in the process of separating" means she was still kind of with her husband, right? Not separated means that, right? Drama! Doesn't make for a good start! Do you want to be that guy?" and then I would have chimed in: "My advice, when confronted with explosions of TRUE LOVE and endless promise, having had some of that sweet elixir myself, would have been along the lines of "I think people fall in like and infatuation and experience passion, not love in those early stages when all that's going on. I think the TRUE LOVE comes from from doing, and acting - not just feeling. Give it time, and when all is free and clear and you're both sure this is what you want for everyone involved, especially the child, begin as you wish it to end. The true love part, surprisingly isn't felt in your tingly bits - it come from things like your bringing her coffee every morning in her favourite cup; the sitting together in hospital rooms and funeral homes and real estate offices and teacher conferences; both of you making sure the boring uglies are taken care of so that the sublime parts have room to happen, and not building castles on wishes with only rainbows for beams (sorry)
But, you know - we can't go back in time (yet) and the heart wants what it wants and well, the sperm does what it does when you haven't taken every precaution there is in 2011. And I can see that others are reading into your question what I am - "I feel trapped - but don't worry - we have this deep looooooooove for each other. But I feel trapped."
This recurring issue of 'I need to feel more free' and 'she needs to feel more secure' comes up again and again because loooove does not conquer that.
You have struggled with the the move away from the city, into the countryside and - even though you love her daughter to bits and she is generally an angel and you have also found it difficult adjusting to the daily rhythm and needs of a small child (5 years old) because you've likely made the majority of the compromises, which is unequal and leads to resentment; as well, because you could and she couldn't, and because you maybe felt guilty about your part in the separation and being involved in that child's life really too soon after; and yes, because of "loooooove".
For her part, your lovely fiance has found it difficult that she is no longer a married woman to her old husband and already has a fiancee and that she no longer has the family unit that she did because it hasn't been all that long since it was ended, and it never ends because they have a child together, (and maybe she didn't end it as well as she might have if you weren't involved) and is now jumping into a new one with someone she loooooooves but can't necessarily count on.
And yet the one thing we know is that you love each other deeply, though in life, that is not always what gets you through. After all, she loooved the other guy once too.
So, my answer is, here and now because you didn't ask eighteen months ago: Ask yourself "What would a person of quality do from this point on?" And then be that guy, even if it isn't who and where and what you are right now. Because that will help you through it. And yes, even as the young rope-rider asserted, you can have what each of you want, as long as you're both responsible for your parts in it. mrgood "gets" to have a band (fine - three bands) and produce shows and take gigs out of town and travel because all his ducks are in a row here - and I'm happy to "let" him because I have no worries. It's not about the looooove, it's not even about the trust or the wants - it's that a life together can be built where each person is satisfied enough to continue along the same path indefinitely. But you know - built, not conjured.
If you're both standing only facing each other all goopy with love, you can't see outward. Stand next to each other and face forward. Then proceed. After a while, look back and you'll see the love, and when you turn around to continue, it will be there too.
posted by peagood at 9:55 AM on September 1, 2011
[Parenting questions are difficult. Please do not make them more difficult by making broad generalizations about other people and their choices. Thank you.]
posted by jessamyn at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by jessamyn at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2011
A lot of users seem to just delight in telling you that your life is over and freedom is a thing of the past.
Here's the thing, you do have a baby coming, and your life will change. Everyone's life changes when a child is added into the mix. This is non-negotiable. You need to take that seriously and realize that "having a baby" isn't just this one event that happens, like you go to the hospital and your gf/fiancee/wife has a baby and the next day you are travelling again. You are going to be caring for another human being for the long run, and that means nights, weekends, all the time, one of the other of you is going to be with that baby. You can't just spontaneously do a lot of things any more, you have to plan for them. You say nothing about birth control, so I don't know if this was a happy accident or planned, but it took the two of you to make this child and it will take the two of you to raise him/her.
Okay, now take a deep breath and relax.
This doesn't mean your life is over! You are just going to have to put some things on hold, settle down and grow up a little faster than you planned. You can always travel later, when your child has grown a little, and even take older children with you, which can be a lot of fun--my kids really give me great perspectives on things I might not ever have considered. But you are going to be a husband and a Dad first, so for the next few years you will have to be a little more giving and a little less self-centered.
You sound like a good guy who is a bit overwhelmed right now and in denial. You also sound a bit panicky. And, (unlike maybe a few of the users above) I do get this! My kids were VERY wanted AND planned, and I still had a panic attack when I became pregnant with my second child, thinking omg I will never get to see Europe now!
But you know what? I've been to England (twice), France, Italy and Switzerland, and my kids are only now in their teens. So it can be done, okay?
I think expecting a child can be a wake-up call and make you think about all the stuff you haven't done yet. But that's okay, because you begin to prioritize which things are important for you to do first when you can get to them. But also, over the next several months as the pregnancy progresses, if you're like me, your priorities will shift a little, too. I think that's why nature, or evolution, or if you believe in stuff like that, a deity, made pregnancy last nine months. We just need that time to get our heads in the right place.
Give your fiancee a hug. Lean on each other, be supportive, talk out your fears and rejoice that you have found this amazing woman to share this adventure with you. Because it really is an adventure, just not the one you had in mind for yourself.
posted by misha at 11:50 AM on September 1, 2011
Here's the thing, you do have a baby coming, and your life will change. Everyone's life changes when a child is added into the mix. This is non-negotiable. You need to take that seriously and realize that "having a baby" isn't just this one event that happens, like you go to the hospital and your gf/fiancee/wife has a baby and the next day you are travelling again. You are going to be caring for another human being for the long run, and that means nights, weekends, all the time, one of the other of you is going to be with that baby. You can't just spontaneously do a lot of things any more, you have to plan for them. You say nothing about birth control, so I don't know if this was a happy accident or planned, but it took the two of you to make this child and it will take the two of you to raise him/her.
Okay, now take a deep breath and relax.
This doesn't mean your life is over! You are just going to have to put some things on hold, settle down and grow up a little faster than you planned. You can always travel later, when your child has grown a little, and even take older children with you, which can be a lot of fun--my kids really give me great perspectives on things I might not ever have considered. But you are going to be a husband and a Dad first, so for the next few years you will have to be a little more giving and a little less self-centered.
You sound like a good guy who is a bit overwhelmed right now and in denial. You also sound a bit panicky. And, (unlike maybe a few of the users above) I do get this! My kids were VERY wanted AND planned, and I still had a panic attack when I became pregnant with my second child, thinking omg I will never get to see Europe now!
But you know what? I've been to England (twice), France, Italy and Switzerland, and my kids are only now in their teens. So it can be done, okay?
I think expecting a child can be a wake-up call and make you think about all the stuff you haven't done yet. But that's okay, because you begin to prioritize which things are important for you to do first when you can get to them. But also, over the next several months as the pregnancy progresses, if you're like me, your priorities will shift a little, too. I think that's why nature, or evolution, or if you believe in stuff like that, a deity, made pregnancy last nine months. We just need that time to get our heads in the right place.
Give your fiancee a hug. Lean on each other, be supportive, talk out your fears and rejoice that you have found this amazing woman to share this adventure with you. Because it really is an adventure, just not the one you had in mind for yourself.
posted by misha at 11:50 AM on September 1, 2011
I was raised in a military family and we moved about every 3-4 years. I don't feel that this stunted my development in any way, to be honest. It put me in a bit of a difficult situation where I was often the new kid but that also helped me realize that my people skills needed some work. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you don't have to park your butt in suburbia for the rest of your life and do nothing. You can totally still travel, you just might have to do so with a plan.
It's no wonder your pregnant fiancée wants more stability when you keep talking about how you want to be "free". It's likely coming across as resentment. Resentment that she has a child, resentment that she's pregnant, resentment that you're no longer a bachelor and living the city life. As others have said, you still define yourself largely by your behaviour 18 months ago and not by your behaviour NOW, which is a problem. You're NOT a bachelor. You're a dude with a steady girlfriend who is both pregnant and the woman you intend to marry. She's likely concerned you're going to run off what with all your resentful talk. Reread this question... Can you blame her?
You need to readjust your concept of yourself based on what your life IS not what your life was or what you want it to be. If you want to travel and have the financial means for it, then you can totally make it happen, it just might require some adjustments. If you want to move around, you can do that too, but again it'll take some adjustment. Start thinking of yourself as "we" instead of "I" because that's how it's been for 18 months, you just haven't caught on.
posted by buteo at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2011
It's no wonder your pregnant fiancée wants more stability when you keep talking about how you want to be "free". It's likely coming across as resentment. Resentment that she has a child, resentment that she's pregnant, resentment that you're no longer a bachelor and living the city life. As others have said, you still define yourself largely by your behaviour 18 months ago and not by your behaviour NOW, which is a problem. You're NOT a bachelor. You're a dude with a steady girlfriend who is both pregnant and the woman you intend to marry. She's likely concerned you're going to run off what with all your resentful talk. Reread this question... Can you blame her?
You need to readjust your concept of yourself based on what your life IS not what your life was or what you want it to be. If you want to travel and have the financial means for it, then you can totally make it happen, it just might require some adjustments. If you want to move around, you can do that too, but again it'll take some adjustment. Start thinking of yourself as "we" instead of "I" because that's how it's been for 18 months, you just haven't caught on.
posted by buteo at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2011
I just had my first child at the age of 40, and honestly? I feel like my life is just beginning. Ditto my husband.
Because he is from overseas and I've lived abroad as well, it is fairly certain we'll be moving internationally at some point in the next few years. I think living abroad for a year or three is an AWESOME experience for a child - why wouldn't you and your wife be able to plan for that 5 years or so from now? You would need lots of stability to carry this off, righ? And you would need a plan. Plans=Stability. I don't see a problem, except maybe with your attitude.
My husband and I don't feel limited by our son one bit, but we into this parenting thing expecting that we could handle it and that it would only enhance our lives and be wonderful.
-----
Put your ego in your pocket. Stop listening to fucked up unhappy people that tell you parenthood sucks. Enjoy your new family to the fullest and expect that you will get to explore many dreams and desires together, and that you will go on many adventures together.
There. Fixed that for you!
posted by jbenben at 12:47 PM on September 1, 2011
Because he is from overseas and I've lived abroad as well, it is fairly certain we'll be moving internationally at some point in the next few years. I think living abroad for a year or three is an AWESOME experience for a child - why wouldn't you and your wife be able to plan for that 5 years or so from now? You would need lots of stability to carry this off, righ? And you would need a plan. Plans=Stability. I don't see a problem, except maybe with your attitude.
My husband and I don't feel limited by our son one bit, but we into this parenting thing expecting that we could handle it and that it would only enhance our lives and be wonderful.
-----
Put your ego in your pocket. Stop listening to fucked up unhappy people that tell you parenthood sucks. Enjoy your new family to the fullest and expect that you will get to explore many dreams and desires together, and that you will go on many adventures together.
There. Fixed that for you!
posted by jbenben at 12:47 PM on September 1, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
You're also planning on getting married (since you referred to your fiance as such), so that means you're going to be attached to her, her daughter, and your new baby for (at least it is hoped) a lifetime.
Where you do that (in the countryside, in the city, or as a nomadic family) is a matter of compromise. There is no reason why you can't have a secure home base and "explore the people and places of the world" within reason (minimizing disruption to your children's home and school lives) and within your financial boundaries.
What you can't do (in my opinion) is be "free" in the sense that you are entirely on your own anymore. Even if the relationship with your fiance wasn't good, you're both going to be in each others' lives forever due to the child you're about to have.
posted by xingcat at 4:32 AM on September 1, 2011