Just because you're paranoid don't mean your advisor ain't out to get you
August 4, 2011 2:55 PM Subscribe
I suspect that my PhD thesis advisor may be writing me poor letters of reference for postdoctoral positions. What can I do to get some sort, any sort, of job?
I've been having problems finding a postdoctoral position. This was surprising to me, since my credentials are pretty solid (went to a top program in my field, have publications, had fellowship money, etc.) I've had people look over my CV and statements of research interests/accomplishments; they all say it looks great.
I had a pretty horrible relationship with my advisor for the last half of my graduate program. I didn't switch advisors because I didn't want to start from scratch with a brand-new project, but maybe I should have. My advisor routinely made me cry, and accused me of not having enough drive to complete my Ph.D. My advisor accused me of this due to my keeping different hours than the rest of the lab, and making slower than usual progress towards my defense (I graduated in 6 years, program average is 5.5 years). In my defense, I tried to work nights and weekends due to the fact that the lab was essentially a toxic environment where a few mean female postdocs and two mean female technicians mercilessly harassed/excluded/gossiped about the other female tech and the female graduate students (male graduate students were always fawned over). I know it wasn't just me, because the other female grad students in the lab and one of the technicians experienced the same problems. My advisor and the favored lab members routinely have parties and go out to eat without inviting me, then yell at me for not having attended these parties and dinners. I didn't really feel comfortable making a big issue out of this, because my advisor is pretty tight with the chair of the department and with the dean of my school for that matter, so I felt like it would be a bad idea to raise the issue with any higher-level people; the one time I (very tentatively and gingerly) brought up the issue with my advisor, I got blasted for being unprofessional and whiney. As for my slow research progress, that is largely due to the fact that my project required me to learn a lot of new techniques and skills that the lab didn't know how to do: I taught myself how to do no less than FIVE new techniques and I set up optimized protocols so that now everyone in the lab can do them. Of course, now that I've optimized them so that everyone else can do them, I get very little credit for having figured them out in the first place -- "Person X/Y/Z got it the first time they tried, why did it take you so long?"
Somehow I toughed it out and survived. Graduated from that hellhole, even. But I still don't have a job. I've applied to dozens and dozens of postdoctoral positions in academia, industry, everything I can think of. I've gotten a couple interviews and no offers. So, I suspect that my advisor is writing me bad references, out of crazy and out of spitefulness.
I really don't know what I can do. I need to get a job, and it will look really damn strange if I don't have my advisor listed as a reference. In fact, it will look so odd that I don't think I'll be able to get a postdoc without my advisor's recommendation. I've also been applying to non-postdoctoral (non-academic) jobs that sometimes hire Ph.D.s, but I haven't had any luck with that angle either -- in this economy, I feel like probably the employers have their pick of people who are just as smart as me and have a more-traditional background.
Does anyone have any advice here? I feel sort of like I just got out of jail -- I'm so happy that I finished my Ph.D. and am done with that lab, but (again, much like a convicted felon) it seems to be extremely difficult for me to get a job. I'd like to be able to use the degree that I worked so hard and suffered so much to get, rather than just applying to Starbucks and waitressing jobs, leaving it off my resume, and pretending I've spent the past 6 years as a housewife... I don't really care what I end up doing (my PhD experience left me sort of ambivalent about remaining in academia), but I'd like to be doing something creative and analytical, which is why I wanted to do science in the first place.
I've been having problems finding a postdoctoral position. This was surprising to me, since my credentials are pretty solid (went to a top program in my field, have publications, had fellowship money, etc.) I've had people look over my CV and statements of research interests/accomplishments; they all say it looks great.
I had a pretty horrible relationship with my advisor for the last half of my graduate program. I didn't switch advisors because I didn't want to start from scratch with a brand-new project, but maybe I should have. My advisor routinely made me cry, and accused me of not having enough drive to complete my Ph.D. My advisor accused me of this due to my keeping different hours than the rest of the lab, and making slower than usual progress towards my defense (I graduated in 6 years, program average is 5.5 years). In my defense, I tried to work nights and weekends due to the fact that the lab was essentially a toxic environment where a few mean female postdocs and two mean female technicians mercilessly harassed/excluded/gossiped about the other female tech and the female graduate students (male graduate students were always fawned over). I know it wasn't just me, because the other female grad students in the lab and one of the technicians experienced the same problems. My advisor and the favored lab members routinely have parties and go out to eat without inviting me, then yell at me for not having attended these parties and dinners. I didn't really feel comfortable making a big issue out of this, because my advisor is pretty tight with the chair of the department and with the dean of my school for that matter, so I felt like it would be a bad idea to raise the issue with any higher-level people; the one time I (very tentatively and gingerly) brought up the issue with my advisor, I got blasted for being unprofessional and whiney. As for my slow research progress, that is largely due to the fact that my project required me to learn a lot of new techniques and skills that the lab didn't know how to do: I taught myself how to do no less than FIVE new techniques and I set up optimized protocols so that now everyone in the lab can do them. Of course, now that I've optimized them so that everyone else can do them, I get very little credit for having figured them out in the first place -- "Person X/Y/Z got it the first time they tried, why did it take you so long?"
Somehow I toughed it out and survived. Graduated from that hellhole, even. But I still don't have a job. I've applied to dozens and dozens of postdoctoral positions in academia, industry, everything I can think of. I've gotten a couple interviews and no offers. So, I suspect that my advisor is writing me bad references, out of crazy and out of spitefulness.
I really don't know what I can do. I need to get a job, and it will look really damn strange if I don't have my advisor listed as a reference. In fact, it will look so odd that I don't think I'll be able to get a postdoc without my advisor's recommendation. I've also been applying to non-postdoctoral (non-academic) jobs that sometimes hire Ph.D.s, but I haven't had any luck with that angle either -- in this economy, I feel like probably the employers have their pick of people who are just as smart as me and have a more-traditional background.
Does anyone have any advice here? I feel sort of like I just got out of jail -- I'm so happy that I finished my Ph.D. and am done with that lab, but (again, much like a convicted felon) it seems to be extremely difficult for me to get a job. I'd like to be able to use the degree that I worked so hard and suffered so much to get, rather than just applying to Starbucks and waitressing jobs, leaving it off my resume, and pretending I've spent the past 6 years as a housewife... I don't really care what I end up doing (my PhD experience left me sort of ambivalent about remaining in academia), but I'd like to be doing something creative and analytical, which is why I wanted to do science in the first place.
Other than vague references to the effect that you "do science," you've left out any meaningful academic history, presumably in the interests of remaining anonymous. Remaining anonymous is not in your best interest in the real world. You had better see your advisor, dry eyed, and get his/her advice. Post-doc advisors don't typically advise through the entire cycle of granting a degree, and then, meanly, submarine their students. Your advisor's professional reputation isn't helped, at all, by your failure. Quite the contrary, to a greater degree than you are willing to grant, in this economy, your success is very much their continuing and long term success.
posted by paulsc at 3:12 PM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by paulsc at 3:12 PM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Sorry you've had a tough go at this.
3 thoughts:
1. That you're getting interviews (which usually are granted only after they've read your advisor's letter) suggests that the letter isn't killing your prospects.
2. I have colleagues (i.e. academic professors) who have done very well without ever getting a recommendation from their PhD adviser for postdoc and faculty positions. It's unusual, but it's not a deal breaker if you have three other good letters, some of which might address the lack of an adviser letter.
3. If you're really paranoid about this "bad letter" business, you can set up a honeypot-- i.e., ask your adviser to send a letter to a third party under the false-premise that the third party is advertising a job. Then have the third party forward the letter to you.
posted by u2604ab at 3:14 PM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
3 thoughts:
1. That you're getting interviews (which usually are granted only after they've read your advisor's letter) suggests that the letter isn't killing your prospects.
2. I have colleagues (i.e. academic professors) who have done very well without ever getting a recommendation from their PhD adviser for postdoc and faculty positions. It's unusual, but it's not a deal breaker if you have three other good letters, some of which might address the lack of an adviser letter.
3. If you're really paranoid about this "bad letter" business, you can set up a honeypot-- i.e., ask your adviser to send a letter to a third party under the false-premise that the third party is advertising a job. Then have the third party forward the letter to you.
posted by u2604ab at 3:14 PM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
From this post, it does not sound like you have had much or any contact with your advisor since you were awarded your phd? Given you have been unsuccessful thus far, I think it would be completely appropriate to contact her and ask for a meeting to discuss applications / interview technique ect - which also gives you an opportunity to reinforce your positive qualities and (tactfully) remind her of the importance of your reference.
You have said that you are getting interviews but nothing more, it can't hurt to set up some mock interviews to assess your technique and determine whether or not that was the problem. Personally, despite being a confident person generally, always blabbered at interviews and did not realised this until I set up some mock interviews with people I knew who were honest about my interview style - I found this really helped when I was job hunting.
Your relationship with your advisor and department during the end of your PHD sounds like it went horribly badly, that sucks. But, intentionally sabotaging the career of a student is another level of crazy that does no favours for her academic reputation either and which from thousands of miles aways sounds unlikely.
I think you would benefit from getting some form of temporary job, atleast part time - its money on the table and it will stop you from spending you whole life stressing about the situation you are in.
If all else fails you can take the FP's advice and obtain a copy of the reference through a honeypot, but that is dodgy behaviour, and if you were found out would probably irreparably damage your professional relationship with your advisor so that is very much a last resort.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 3:20 PM on August 4, 2011
You have said that you are getting interviews but nothing more, it can't hurt to set up some mock interviews to assess your technique and determine whether or not that was the problem. Personally, despite being a confident person generally, always blabbered at interviews and did not realised this until I set up some mock interviews with people I knew who were honest about my interview style - I found this really helped when I was job hunting.
Your relationship with your advisor and department during the end of your PHD sounds like it went horribly badly, that sucks. But, intentionally sabotaging the career of a student is another level of crazy that does no favours for her academic reputation either and which from thousands of miles aways sounds unlikely.
I think you would benefit from getting some form of temporary job, atleast part time - its money on the table and it will stop you from spending you whole life stressing about the situation you are in.
If all else fails you can take the FP's advice and obtain a copy of the reference through a honeypot, but that is dodgy behaviour, and if you were found out would probably irreparably damage your professional relationship with your advisor so that is very much a last resort.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 3:20 PM on August 4, 2011
I would go to the Dean of Students/Graduate School/Department and ask if letters of recommendation from your adviser are accessible, if so, you would like a copy(s). If they are an official letter from the University they may be part of the student file. If they are not accessible I would call the HR department of one of the places where you interviewed and ask if there were any letters of recommendation that were negative and raised concerns. They probable will not tell you but there is no down side in asking--do not ask for any specifics or any particular references. Just briefly explain what you put in the post--but none of the issues regarding interpersonal relations.
I think by far the best strategy is to go directly to your doctoral adviser and ask politely if his/her letter of recommendation raised any concerns about your performance as a future employee. If he says no ask for a copy, if he says yes ask him to please share with you his concerns as you are having difficulty getting interviews etc.
I must say, your post does sound defensive and has a tone of having been victimized/treated differentially/or discriminated against.. While you may be justified in these feelings, and accurately describing your experiences, I would encourage you to be absolutely sure none of the interpersonal frustration is carring over into the interviews you do have. Also, given the market it would be helpful to know what specific field you studied.
posted by rmhsinc at 3:27 PM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think by far the best strategy is to go directly to your doctoral adviser and ask politely if his/her letter of recommendation raised any concerns about your performance as a future employee. If he says no ask for a copy, if he says yes ask him to please share with you his concerns as you are having difficulty getting interviews etc.
I must say, your post does sound defensive and has a tone of having been victimized/treated differentially/or discriminated against.. While you may be justified in these feelings, and accurately describing your experiences, I would encourage you to be absolutely sure none of the interpersonal frustration is carring over into the interviews you do have. Also, given the market it would be helpful to know what specific field you studied.
posted by rmhsinc at 3:27 PM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Generally your CV and the letter are used as tools to get interviews. So far, it seems pretty effective for that, though you should always consider revising it. I think your issue lies elsewhere.
You made one comment that raised questions for me about your interviews:
I taught myself how to do no less than FIVE new techniques and I set up optimized protocols so that now everyone in the lab can do them. Of course, now that I've optimized them so that everyone else can do them, I get very little credit for having figured them out in the first place -- "Person X/Y/Z got it the first time they tried, why did it take you so long?"
This should be a sale point. If everyone is doing it now, your answer to the above question should be "In ___ years|decades|centuries|millenia, no one had come up with a good way to do x, y, and z. After n weeks|months of effort, I developed these techniques, then systematized it so that a monkey|HR person|undergrad|etc. could do it." Bonus points if you can actually determine how many dollars, lab hours or wasted lives your work has saved or will save in the future. Show them how your accomplishments will confer on them the benefits they hope to gain from you, e.g., grants, economic efficiency, respect, etc.
If you don't get the job, you should follow up with the interviewer. Ask them if there was something you could have done better, or ask about what qualities the person they hired has that you lack, etc. If that doesn't yield some answers, you can follow up about the letter.
posted by Hylas at 4:33 PM on August 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
You made one comment that raised questions for me about your interviews:
I taught myself how to do no less than FIVE new techniques and I set up optimized protocols so that now everyone in the lab can do them. Of course, now that I've optimized them so that everyone else can do them, I get very little credit for having figured them out in the first place -- "Person X/Y/Z got it the first time they tried, why did it take you so long?"
This should be a sale point. If everyone is doing it now, your answer to the above question should be "In ___ years|decades|centuries|millenia, no one had come up with a good way to do x, y, and z. After n weeks|months of effort, I developed these techniques, then systematized it so that a monkey|HR person|undergrad|etc. could do it." Bonus points if you can actually determine how many dollars, lab hours or wasted lives your work has saved or will save in the future. Show them how your accomplishments will confer on them the benefits they hope to gain from you, e.g., grants, economic efficiency, respect, etc.
If you don't get the job, you should follow up with the interviewer. Ask them if there was something you could have done better, or ask about what qualities the person they hired has that you lack, etc. If that doesn't yield some answers, you can follow up about the letter.
posted by Hylas at 4:33 PM on August 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Make up some official-sounding title for a friend at their PO box, and as for a letter of recommendation to go there.
Read said letter.
Note that this works for ALL job references - Not sure your last boss gives the glowing references you might hope for? Have a friend call for a reference and see what transpires.
Note also that if you can prove s/he said or wrote bad things, you may have a slam-dunk of a lawsuit to tide you over on your bills. (IANAL).
posted by pla at 5:07 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Read said letter.
Note that this works for ALL job references - Not sure your last boss gives the glowing references you might hope for? Have a friend call for a reference and see what transpires.
Note also that if you can prove s/he said or wrote bad things, you may have a slam-dunk of a lawsuit to tide you over on your bills. (IANAL).
posted by pla at 5:07 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
My own thesis advisor never understood the point of my research focus and, I suspect, always damned me with faint praise because he just did not understand my thesis.
I have not relied on him for key references. Instead, I have used senior faculty members whom I met at conferences and followed up with over time, so that they were familiar with my papers and ongoing work. It's quite usual for people to have a less than perfect relationship with their advisor. Just cultivate other mentors instead.
posted by Susurration at 6:13 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have not relied on him for key references. Instead, I have used senior faculty members whom I met at conferences and followed up with over time, so that they were familiar with my papers and ongoing work. It's quite usual for people to have a less than perfect relationship with their advisor. Just cultivate other mentors instead.
posted by Susurration at 6:13 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Whether it's possible given your relationship is up to you, but the most direct way of figuring this out is to talk to your advisor and ask them what they are writing. It may not be as bad as you think, but if they are indeed writing weak letters then at least part of the blame may lie with you: if you're not talking to them regularly about your job search and your goals then, whether they like you or not, their letters are going to be sub-optimal. One way of broaching the subject is to ask something like "do you feel like you'd be able to strongly support my application for this position?" If they really are writing bad letters then find other people to write.
posted by caek at 8:06 PM on August 4, 2011
posted by caek at 8:06 PM on August 4, 2011
I would approach the people you have interviewed with first for feedback, before approaching your supervisor. A couple of reasons - 1) I don't think it is good to assume your supervisor is writing bad reference letters. In my experience, supervisors will always support their students in writing reference letters, even if they have been a less than stellar student, or have had interpersonal issues with the student, because it does not reflect well on them if their student is unable to find a position. YMMV. 2) Until you have explored all other options I don't think it is a good idea to go to your supervisor with the idea that they might not be writing the best possible reference for you, as it might create doubt in their mind - eg why, is there some reason I shouldn't be writing you an excellent reference? Again, I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I think this could create more problems (especially as you have said that your professor has already accused you of being unprofessional - it seems to me he could really take it the wrong way).
Also, I would echo rmhsinc's comments about making absolutely sure none of the tone of your question here is coming through in your interviews. Everyone (well, except for maybe a couple of golden boys and girls) has problems in their PhD. Absolutely everyone. Your potential post-doc supervisor doesn't want to hear about it. They want to hear about what you can do for them, in their lab. Make sure that is what you are telling them.
Good luck!
posted by unlaced at 8:52 PM on August 4, 2011
Also, I would echo rmhsinc's comments about making absolutely sure none of the tone of your question here is coming through in your interviews. Everyone (well, except for maybe a couple of golden boys and girls) has problems in their PhD. Absolutely everyone. Your potential post-doc supervisor doesn't want to hear about it. They want to hear about what you can do for them, in their lab. Make sure that is what you are telling them.
Good luck!
posted by unlaced at 8:52 PM on August 4, 2011
I am in research, but I am not a PhD. Having said that I have found on metafilter my advice in this area is often discredited immediately. My guess is because I am not a PhD. Regardless, I still believe I can contribute to your question as I have read extensively on the "research market".
I agree with the commentators to have friends help check your reference from this advisor. What an unfortunate situation and experience he has given you. I am so glad that you know it isn't you. I suspect it is from his own insecurity that is creating this environment.
It may be possible you are having difficulty finding a postdoc position because due to the budget situation in Washington, the funding organizations - NSF, NIH, and others do not know what their budgets are for the next year so they are unable to know how much money they have to disseminate. Therefore, although you are getting interviews, the research groups you are interviewing with may still be waiting to hear from their main funding organization if they [the funding organization] can actually commit to the proposal won, or if they will even request proposals in the specific field of science the research's group's area of expertise is in for the next year.
Please note: In the above paragraph I made no references to a political stance on the situation in Washington, by merely stated a fact that for funding organizations to know how much money have to disseminate they must first know their budget.
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 6:55 AM on August 5, 2011
I agree with the commentators to have friends help check your reference from this advisor. What an unfortunate situation and experience he has given you. I am so glad that you know it isn't you. I suspect it is from his own insecurity that is creating this environment.
It may be possible you are having difficulty finding a postdoc position because due to the budget situation in Washington, the funding organizations - NSF, NIH, and others do not know what their budgets are for the next year so they are unable to know how much money they have to disseminate. Therefore, although you are getting interviews, the research groups you are interviewing with may still be waiting to hear from their main funding organization if they [the funding organization] can actually commit to the proposal won, or if they will even request proposals in the specific field of science the research's group's area of expertise is in for the next year.
Please note: In the above paragraph I made no references to a political stance on the situation in Washington, by merely stated a fact that for funding organizations to know how much money have to disseminate they must first know their budget.
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 6:55 AM on August 5, 2011
Make up some official-sounding title for a friend at their PO box, and as for a letter of recommendation to go there.
In addition to being fraudulent, this is not a way to replace an advisor letter.
It may be possible you are having difficulty finding a postdoc position because due to the budget situation in Washington, the funding organizations - NSF, NIH, and others do not know what their budgets are for the next year so they are unable to know how much money they have to disseminate.
BuffaloChickenWing, this is the second time I have seen you offer up this unfounded hypothesis. You seem to think that people are dismissing your hypothesis because you do not have a PhD or for some unspecified political reason. No, the reason people are dismissing this hypothesis is because it is absolutely false and does not make any sense. You do not need a PhD to know this, only to have some familiarity with how federally-funded research works. I know this because I am a principal investigator on an NIH grant, but our department grants staff would know it too, and none of them have PhDs. There is already lots of money already at research institutions waiting for people to hire. The federal granting agencies still have appropriated money that has not been spent.
It is very unlikely that someone would advertise an open postdoctoral position without either having the funds in hand or official notification that they will be coming soon. I have never heard of this happening. If you are applying for unadvertised positions, then they may not have the money for you, but if they thought you were a good fit anyway, they would ask you to apply for a fellowship to pay for yourself.
posted by grouse at 7:47 AM on August 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
In addition to being fraudulent, this is not a way to replace an advisor letter.
It may be possible you are having difficulty finding a postdoc position because due to the budget situation in Washington, the funding organizations - NSF, NIH, and others do not know what their budgets are for the next year so they are unable to know how much money they have to disseminate.
BuffaloChickenWing, this is the second time I have seen you offer up this unfounded hypothesis. You seem to think that people are dismissing your hypothesis because you do not have a PhD or for some unspecified political reason. No, the reason people are dismissing this hypothesis is because it is absolutely false and does not make any sense. You do not need a PhD to know this, only to have some familiarity with how federally-funded research works. I know this because I am a principal investigator on an NIH grant, but our department grants staff would know it too, and none of them have PhDs. There is already lots of money already at research institutions waiting for people to hire. The federal granting agencies still have appropriated money that has not been spent.
It is very unlikely that someone would advertise an open postdoctoral position without either having the funds in hand or official notification that they will be coming soon. I have never heard of this happening. If you are applying for unadvertised positions, then they may not have the money for you, but if they thought you were a good fit anyway, they would ask you to apply for a fellowship to pay for yourself.
posted by grouse at 7:47 AM on August 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Whether it's possible given your relationship is up to you, but the most direct way of figuring this out is to talk to your advisor and ask them what they are writing.
This. As my college advisor told us, "you don't ask 'can I use you as a reference', you ask ' can you be a good reference'". While many in academia may feel ethically iffy about sharing the contents of a letter of reference, they are generally are OK with being asked about the potential character of a letter.
posted by nomisxid at 7:48 AM on August 5, 2011
This. As my college advisor told us, "you don't ask 'can I use you as a reference', you ask ' can you be a good reference'". While many in academia may feel ethically iffy about sharing the contents of a letter of reference, they are generally are OK with being asked about the potential character of a letter.
posted by nomisxid at 7:48 AM on August 5, 2011
Can you get refs from those in the department with whom you DID get along well?
posted by brujita at 8:11 AM on August 5, 2011
posted by brujita at 8:11 AM on August 5, 2011
I know for a fact that this happens, even with well-known, tenured individuals at Ivy Leagues. My PI told me about a young man who applied to her university for his Post Doctorate work who was trashed by his advisor. This poor student had no idea his advisor was basically stating that the student was an idiot who had no original thoughts of his own. Luckily, my PI was in a field where this professor had a reputation as an egotistical, lying jerk. Ignoring the poor recommendation, they hired the graduate anyway and he's done splendidly. Unfortunately, it took another few years for others within the advisor's field to realize the same. He was finally forced to resign from his tenured position at an Ivy League, but not before he destroyed a few careers. Find out what your letter of rec says. There are some really bad advisors out there.
I don't know if it's possible for you to step slightly outside your field (for example, move to psychology from anthropology), or to search for individuals who recognize what an ass your advisor is, but either way, if your advisor is tanking you, search for other individuals who can give you letters of rec.
posted by avagoyle at 4:20 PM on August 5, 2011
I don't know if it's possible for you to step slightly outside your field (for example, move to psychology from anthropology), or to search for individuals who recognize what an ass your advisor is, but either way, if your advisor is tanking you, search for other individuals who can give you letters of rec.
posted by avagoyle at 4:20 PM on August 5, 2011
grouse : In addition to being fraudulent, this is not a way to replace an advisor letter.
I think you mistook my intent - I didn't say to write fake letters of recommendation, just have an entirely real one sent to a friend (thus no need to speculate about the content of her advisor's references).
And aside from that, do you seriously mean to say that I can't call myself the "Director of IT" of my own house?
posted by pla at 5:35 PM on August 5, 2011
I think you mistook my intent - I didn't say to write fake letters of recommendation, just have an entirely real one sent to a friend (thus no need to speculate about the content of her advisor's references).
And aside from that, do you seriously mean to say that I can't call myself the "Director of IT" of my own house?
posted by pla at 5:35 PM on August 5, 2011
You're right pla, I did not understand your comment before. It's one of those rare cases where a typo actually causes misunderstanding. Anyway, sorry for interpreting your comment incorrectly.
posted by grouse at 5:47 PM on August 5, 2011
posted by grouse at 5:47 PM on August 5, 2011
Oh! Consider me embarrassed, I didn't even notice my typo - your interpretation makes complete sense, taking that into account. :I
No apology necessary, and accept mine instead!
posted by pla at 6:07 PM on August 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
No apology necessary, and accept mine instead!
posted by pla at 6:07 PM on August 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
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Good luck, it's a shit time to be job hunting.
posted by Space Kitty at 3:07 PM on August 4, 2011 [8 favorites]