Where in Philly?
August 2, 2011 7:03 AM Subscribe
My girlfriend and I might be moving to Philadelphia. Where should we live?
We're currently in Washington, DC, having cut our teeth in Chapel Hill, NC. It's looking likely that we might move to Philadelphia in a year so that she can enroll in Grad school there.
Where's a good place to live? I'm not so concerned about restaurants but I love a good bar, need somewhere bike/ped friendly, and would like it to be relatively central and well-served by public transportation. We'd both prefer not to own a car.
Speaking for her, I think she'd like something a little bit more residential in nature. We're currently in Near Northeast DC - near nightlife, but not among it.
I know nothing about the city. Please, enlighten me.
We're currently in Washington, DC, having cut our teeth in Chapel Hill, NC. It's looking likely that we might move to Philadelphia in a year so that she can enroll in Grad school there.
Where's a good place to live? I'm not so concerned about restaurants but I love a good bar, need somewhere bike/ped friendly, and would like it to be relatively central and well-served by public transportation. We'd both prefer not to own a car.
Speaking for her, I think she'd like something a little bit more residential in nature. We're currently in Near Northeast DC - near nightlife, but not among it.
I know nothing about the city. Please, enlighten me.
Hey! Good news: you just described, like, just about all of Philadelphia! It's a wonderful city. Great residential neighborhoods in every price range (which you didn't specify, and which will probably be your ultimate deciding factor), and it is a city built around schools so almost no matter where she is going, there will be access to public transit that will serve you well.
Places to look: South Philly, Fairmount, Chinatown (I had a great quirky apartment there). But really, you'll need to know a little more (school, price range) before we can direct you more specifically since your currently stated qualifications are pretty broad.
posted by jph at 7:18 AM on August 2, 2011
Places to look: South Philly, Fairmount, Chinatown (I had a great quirky apartment there). But really, you'll need to know a little more (school, price range) before we can direct you more specifically since your currently stated qualifications are pretty broad.
posted by jph at 7:18 AM on August 2, 2011
Philly is great. I spent five years in Wash West, the area between Washington Square and Broad. I thought it was great. It was hugely cheap in the late 90s. The city has changed quite a bit since I lived there, but I would think that almost the entire city could suit you, based on your broad parameters.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:21 AM on August 2, 2011
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:21 AM on August 2, 2011
Seconding West Philly if she's at Penn (or Drexel, which is close). Specifically, look close to Baltimore Ave around 48th-50th. A trolley runs on Baltimore to Center City, though not super-reliably. Biking is an adventure, but is a popular/simple option.
If she's at Temple, you can either be close by in North Philly (I've never done it, but I don't hear great things) or commute from South Philly (look around East Passyunk) via the Broad Street Subway, or from the east (Northern Liberties/Fishtown) or west (Art Museum/Brewerytown) by bus or Girard trolley.
I live near the Grad Hospital neighborhood, which is definitely bikeable to Penn, but is a little underserved in terms of public transportation (IMO). Nice residential area, though. Three great bars, and probably more coming soon.
So yeah, price range needed, plus type of domicile (apartment in brownstone? entire brownstone? high-rise apt? loft?), and desired length/mode of commute.
posted by supercres at 7:26 AM on August 2, 2011
If she's at Temple, you can either be close by in North Philly (I've never done it, but I don't hear great things) or commute from South Philly (look around East Passyunk) via the Broad Street Subway, or from the east (Northern Liberties/Fishtown) or west (Art Museum/Brewerytown) by bus or Girard trolley.
I live near the Grad Hospital neighborhood, which is definitely bikeable to Penn, but is a little underserved in terms of public transportation (IMO). Nice residential area, though. Three great bars, and probably more coming soon.
So yeah, price range needed, plus type of domicile (apartment in brownstone? entire brownstone? high-rise apt? loft?), and desired length/mode of commute.
posted by supercres at 7:26 AM on August 2, 2011
Response by poster: She'll be at either Temple or Thomas Jefferson - probably looking at a 30-45 minute commute at the longest, optimally.
Having lived in a basement for the past 2 years, we might like something with a little more room- but we can be pretty flexible. And after paying North Carolina rent followed by DC rent, I no longer know what's reasonable to expect for rent...1000-1400?
posted by Vhanudux at 7:52 AM on August 2, 2011
Having lived in a basement for the past 2 years, we might like something with a little more room- but we can be pretty flexible. And after paying North Carolina rent followed by DC rent, I no longer know what's reasonable to expect for rent...1000-1400?
posted by Vhanudux at 7:52 AM on August 2, 2011
Best answer: Is she/will she be a med student? (Asking because you mentioned Jefferson.) Temple med school isn't on Temple's main campus; it's in Chinatown.
Jefferson is close to the MFL subway (which goes anywhere from West Philly to the far northeast-- stops are visible on Google Maps), and is also accessible by a single bus from either Northern Liberties or Passyunk East area. So is Temple med school. Temple main campus is accessible via BSL, which intersects with the MFL at City Hall.
Your range will get you a 1-bedroom almost anywhere, including Center City. (My knowledge is maybe two years old.) The farther out you go, the more space you get for your money. For example, my rent is in the lower half of that range, and I have a 2/1.5 house at 26th and Ellsworth.
I would recommend looking in Northern Liberties, Fishtown, or Passyunk, east of Broad. You might be able to find a bargain in Washington West (part of Center City) too.
posted by supercres at 8:09 AM on August 2, 2011
Jefferson is close to the MFL subway (which goes anywhere from West Philly to the far northeast-- stops are visible on Google Maps), and is also accessible by a single bus from either Northern Liberties or Passyunk East area. So is Temple med school. Temple main campus is accessible via BSL, which intersects with the MFL at City Hall.
Your range will get you a 1-bedroom almost anywhere, including Center City. (My knowledge is maybe two years old.) The farther out you go, the more space you get for your money. For example, my rent is in the lower half of that range, and I have a 2/1.5 house at 26th and Ellsworth.
I would recommend looking in Northern Liberties, Fishtown, or Passyunk, east of Broad. You might be able to find a bargain in Washington West (part of Center City) too.
posted by supercres at 8:09 AM on August 2, 2011
Fairmount is pretty great, has some great bars (Brigid's, Belgian Café, London Grill), and is very pedestrian/bike friendly. Some friends of mine just rented a 2BR with garage (!) for $1400, and we're paying just a bit more for a huge 1.5BR. If you go north of Fairmount Ave, prices will drop a bit from there. By bike, you're realistically talking about 15-20 minutes to Jefferson or Temple depending on how many red lights you run.
posted by The Michael The at 8:09 AM on August 2, 2011
posted by The Michael The at 8:09 AM on August 2, 2011
Best answer: When you mention that rent, what size place is that for? I (for example) live in South Philly, in a neighborhood called East Passyunk Crossing if you're a real-estate agent and "just off Passyunk Ave" if you're a normal human; that budget range will easily rent you a 2-bedroom house.
Important random Philly housing notes:
* It's not actually true that the entire city meets your needs. But most of the parts that don't, you won't even start looking at - for example, the Northeast is a huge region that, in character, design, and culture, is very unlike most of the rest of the city, and is best thought of as a less-dense sister city - but it has poor public transit, so you won't even start looking there. You'll probably be looking at West Philly (most likely the region close-ish to Penn and Drexel, which may be called University City), Center City (possibly pricier than you want), South Philly (especially east of Broad Street; west of Broad is more generally known as Point Breeze rather than South Philly), and possibly Northern Liberties.
* When you're looking at an area, you'll probably want to drop another Ask, or ping a Philly mefite, to check on the details. Philly's famously block-by-block, with great pockets in the middle of sketchy neighborhoods, but also occasional touchy corners in the middle of otherwise-awesome areas. It's both a longstanding property of the city, as well as a result of several neighborhoods - including nearly everywhere you'll be looking - having changed dramatically and rapidly over the past few years.
* Unless you live in a high-rise in Center City, or a small section of a huge Victorian house in West Philly, you'll live in a row home. Damn-near the entire city consists of row homes, sometimes subdivided into apartments, sometimes kept whole. If you don't like sharing walls with neighbors... well, you'll have a problem.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:11 AM on August 2, 2011
Important random Philly housing notes:
* It's not actually true that the entire city meets your needs. But most of the parts that don't, you won't even start looking at - for example, the Northeast is a huge region that, in character, design, and culture, is very unlike most of the rest of the city, and is best thought of as a less-dense sister city - but it has poor public transit, so you won't even start looking there. You'll probably be looking at West Philly (most likely the region close-ish to Penn and Drexel, which may be called University City), Center City (possibly pricier than you want), South Philly (especially east of Broad Street; west of Broad is more generally known as Point Breeze rather than South Philly), and possibly Northern Liberties.
* When you're looking at an area, you'll probably want to drop another Ask, or ping a Philly mefite, to check on the details. Philly's famously block-by-block, with great pockets in the middle of sketchy neighborhoods, but also occasional touchy corners in the middle of otherwise-awesome areas. It's both a longstanding property of the city, as well as a result of several neighborhoods - including nearly everywhere you'll be looking - having changed dramatically and rapidly over the past few years.
* Unless you live in a high-rise in Center City, or a small section of a huge Victorian house in West Philly, you'll live in a row home. Damn-near the entire city consists of row homes, sometimes subdivided into apartments, sometimes kept whole. If you don't like sharing walls with neighbors... well, you'll have a problem.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:11 AM on August 2, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks for all the feedback!
Supercres - She'll be in the Occupational Therapy program - I'm guessing that might be in the med school - I'll ask her.
From what I've read, sounds like Philly and I will get along pretty well.
posted by Vhanudux at 8:47 AM on August 2, 2011
Supercres - She'll be in the Occupational Therapy program - I'm guessing that might be in the med school - I'll ask her.
From what I've read, sounds like Philly and I will get along pretty well.
posted by Vhanudux at 8:47 AM on August 2, 2011
My place in Philly in Wash West (mentioned above) was around 11th and Spruce while my ex was at Jefferson. At the time, it was $700/month for a pretty good sized 1 br with a washer/drier. It was really nice. The neighborhood has changed quite a bit since then (and rents surely have gone up), but I'm sure you'll find a nice place to live. I really liked Spruce and Pine Streets in that area. Close walking distance to the Whole Foods on South Street, and easy walking to Reading Terminal.
But heed Tomorrowful's words--Philly is nice (or shitty) on a block by block basis. There is a lot of variation in housing stock, too.
Sometimes, I really wish I still lived in Philly.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:19 AM on August 2, 2011
But heed Tomorrowful's words--Philly is nice (or shitty) on a block by block basis. There is a lot of variation in housing stock, too.
Sometimes, I really wish I still lived in Philly.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:19 AM on August 2, 2011
Temple med school isn't on Temple's main campus; it's in Chinatown.
Temple's medical school is at the health sciences campus, which is along Broad Street three or four subway stops farther north than the main campus. But occupational therapy is likely in the College of Health Professions, also on the health sciences campus.
The School of Podiatry in Chinatown.
posted by desuetude at 5:44 PM on August 2, 2011
Temple's medical school is at the health sciences campus, which is along Broad Street three or four subway stops farther north than the main campus. But occupational therapy is likely in the College of Health Professions, also on the health sciences campus.
The School of Podiatry in Chinatown.
posted by desuetude at 5:44 PM on August 2, 2011
(Oh, duh. Mea culpa. I knew it was slightly remote and that there was a campus in Chinatown. Put the two together incorrectly.)
posted by supercres at 7:50 PM on August 2, 2011
posted by supercres at 7:50 PM on August 2, 2011
Since the words have come up: Passyunk is pronounced "Pa-shunk", not "Pass-ee-unk". Schuylkill is pronounced "Skoo-kill".
Unless you live in a high-rise in Center City, or a small section of a huge Victorian house in West Philly, you'll live in a row home. Damn-near the entire city consists of row homes, sometimes subdivided into apartments, sometimes kept whole. If you don't like sharing walls with neighbors... well, you'll have a problem.
The parts of West Philly that we're talking about here (greater "University City") also seem to have a lot of small-to-medium-sized apartment buildings that were never row homes. I lived in two of them (not at the same time!), one at 46th and Walnut and another at 46th and Baltimore. You'll also see a lot of big old houses that were subdivided in very strange ways, so some of the resulting units are awkwardly shaped. (I used to have a round bedroom; I'm not sure if this was the result of an awkward subdivision.) I never encountered problems sharing walls with neighbors, but sharing floors/ceilings got kind of annoying...
Anyway, if she's at Jefferson and you're priced out of Center City (which you might be, depending on how much space you want) you could look just about anywhere, because Jefferson is centrally located. For Temple by public transit, though, you don't want to be in West Philly; you end up changing trains at City Hall, which smells really bad and adds time to the commute.
(But I'll admit it, I miss that smell. It's home.)
posted by madcaptenor at 8:39 PM on August 2, 2011
Unless you live in a high-rise in Center City, or a small section of a huge Victorian house in West Philly, you'll live in a row home. Damn-near the entire city consists of row homes, sometimes subdivided into apartments, sometimes kept whole. If you don't like sharing walls with neighbors... well, you'll have a problem.
The parts of West Philly that we're talking about here (greater "University City") also seem to have a lot of small-to-medium-sized apartment buildings that were never row homes. I lived in two of them (not at the same time!), one at 46th and Walnut and another at 46th and Baltimore. You'll also see a lot of big old houses that were subdivided in very strange ways, so some of the resulting units are awkwardly shaped. (I used to have a round bedroom; I'm not sure if this was the result of an awkward subdivision.) I never encountered problems sharing walls with neighbors, but sharing floors/ceilings got kind of annoying...
Anyway, if she's at Jefferson and you're priced out of Center City (which you might be, depending on how much space you want) you could look just about anywhere, because Jefferson is centrally located. For Temple by public transit, though, you don't want to be in West Philly; you end up changing trains at City Hall, which smells really bad and adds time to the commute.
(But I'll admit it, I miss that smell. It's home.)
posted by madcaptenor at 8:39 PM on August 2, 2011
(Oh, duh. Mea culpa. I knew it was slightly remote and that there was a campus in Chinatown. Put the two together incorrectly.)
S'okay. I work at Temple, and my specific area of focus is the health sciences schools, so I'm all kinds of well-versed.
You are not necessarily priced out of Center City at all -- echoing madcaptenor, it depends on how much space you want. But don't get too wrapped up in being "in Center City," the non-"Center City" neighborhoods aren't necessarily far-flung. My (and Tomorrowful's) awesome South Philly neighborhood is about an eight-minute bus ride to Jeff or a sixteen-minute subway ride to Temple's health sciences campus, plus a few minutes' walking time.
A few gentle comments on other comments: Jeff is close to both the Market-Frankford and Broad Street lines, which are perpendicular and the only subways in town. There are plenty of apartment buildings that are not converted rowhomes, though high-rises are relatively rare. I don't find Philly to be block-to-block so much as "avoid these corridors," though I certainly acknowledge that this can functionally translate to block-to-block if you don't quite have the full picture.
City Hall/Suburban Station does not smell as bad as it used to. I do not actually recommend North Philly, there's very little to do around Temple except for Temple, and while there is some brilliant nightlife farther east in Fishtown, it's practically-speaking almost as far away as Center City and not a neighborhood I'd necessarily recommend for a brand-new resident; it's kinda intermediate level.
No-one in Philly lacks for opinions or the gumption to share 'em. It's how we do "friendly."
posted by desuetude at 11:00 PM on August 2, 2011
S'okay. I work at Temple, and my specific area of focus is the health sciences schools, so I'm all kinds of well-versed.
You are not necessarily priced out of Center City at all -- echoing madcaptenor, it depends on how much space you want. But don't get too wrapped up in being "in Center City," the non-"Center City" neighborhoods aren't necessarily far-flung. My (and Tomorrowful's) awesome South Philly neighborhood is about an eight-minute bus ride to Jeff or a sixteen-minute subway ride to Temple's health sciences campus, plus a few minutes' walking time.
A few gentle comments on other comments: Jeff is close to both the Market-Frankford and Broad Street lines, which are perpendicular and the only subways in town. There are plenty of apartment buildings that are not converted rowhomes, though high-rises are relatively rare. I don't find Philly to be block-to-block so much as "avoid these corridors," though I certainly acknowledge that this can functionally translate to block-to-block if you don't quite have the full picture.
City Hall/Suburban Station does not smell as bad as it used to. I do not actually recommend North Philly, there's very little to do around Temple except for Temple, and while there is some brilliant nightlife farther east in Fishtown, it's practically-speaking almost as far away as Center City and not a neighborhood I'd necessarily recommend for a brand-new resident; it's kinda intermediate level.
No-one in Philly lacks for opinions or the gumption to share 'em. It's how we do "friendly."
posted by desuetude at 11:00 PM on August 2, 2011
My girlfriend & I just moved to Philadelphia in May from upstate NY, so we were in a similar place. We knew basically nothing but were hoping for the best.
We moved to West Philly, which I would definitely recommend.
What sold us is that it has pretty decent access to public transportation, has some great things to do, and also feels relatively friendly & very neighborhood-y.
As for public transportation, you can walk north to the Market-Frankford subway, which goes straight across center city & then curves north, or walk south to the 34 Trolley, which goes runs along Baltimore then goes east through center city with a few free connections-- I switch from the trolley at City Hall to the Broad St line, which smells fine and takes 5 minutes during rush hour max. A lot of people ride bikes, too.
Apparently Philadelphia Magazine recently deemed West Philly the most underrated food neighborhood, and we're partial to everything from Fu Wah's tofu hoagies to The Local 44 for beer & black bean burgers to the Desi Chaat House's navratna chaat.
We previously lived in a small rural town, so we like the feeling of community from things like the Baltimore Dollar Stroll, and free events at Clark Park (it is a great park around 44th & Baltimore with twice weekly farmers markets, people playing chess, lots of children LARPing/fighting with foam swords on Saturdays, and events like flea markets, a summer music festival, outdoor film screenings, and free plays).
The specific area we live in is along Baltimore between 44th & 50th, maybe going north to Spruce or Locust. A lot of the housing options are converted row houses, and many of the streets are green & tree-lined. We have pretty decent rent ($950) for a whole floor of a row house, which is definitely enough space. We're just west enough that we aren't caught up in UPenn & Drexel, but still central & safe enough. It's a neighborhood with quite a bit of of displacement/gentrification because (among other things) many parents are moving in for the Penn-Alexander school catchment, so i think we feel complicated about being a part of that, but the neighborhood offers a lot. From what I understand, a lot of the changes in the neighborhood are related to money and interest from UPenn & the "University City District" coalition, which on one hand wants give the area a very cosmetic makeover, but on the other hand pays for bike cops and sponsors events that we love like the Dollar Stroll. West Philly Local is a great blog to look at, that I think represents things pretty accurately, the good & the bad. Good luck in your search!
posted by Wen at 7:23 PM on August 3, 2011
We moved to West Philly, which I would definitely recommend.
What sold us is that it has pretty decent access to public transportation, has some great things to do, and also feels relatively friendly & very neighborhood-y.
As for public transportation, you can walk north to the Market-Frankford subway, which goes straight across center city & then curves north, or walk south to the 34 Trolley, which goes runs along Baltimore then goes east through center city with a few free connections-- I switch from the trolley at City Hall to the Broad St line, which smells fine and takes 5 minutes during rush hour max. A lot of people ride bikes, too.
Apparently Philadelphia Magazine recently deemed West Philly the most underrated food neighborhood, and we're partial to everything from Fu Wah's tofu hoagies to The Local 44 for beer & black bean burgers to the Desi Chaat House's navratna chaat.
We previously lived in a small rural town, so we like the feeling of community from things like the Baltimore Dollar Stroll, and free events at Clark Park (it is a great park around 44th & Baltimore with twice weekly farmers markets, people playing chess, lots of children LARPing/fighting with foam swords on Saturdays, and events like flea markets, a summer music festival, outdoor film screenings, and free plays).
The specific area we live in is along Baltimore between 44th & 50th, maybe going north to Spruce or Locust. A lot of the housing options are converted row houses, and many of the streets are green & tree-lined. We have pretty decent rent ($950) for a whole floor of a row house, which is definitely enough space. We're just west enough that we aren't caught up in UPenn & Drexel, but still central & safe enough. It's a neighborhood with quite a bit of of displacement/gentrification because (among other things) many parents are moving in for the Penn-Alexander school catchment, so i think we feel complicated about being a part of that, but the neighborhood offers a lot. From what I understand, a lot of the changes in the neighborhood are related to money and interest from UPenn & the "University City District" coalition, which on one hand wants give the area a very cosmetic makeover, but on the other hand pays for bike cops and sponsors events that we love like the Dollar Stroll. West Philly Local is a great blog to look at, that I think represents things pretty accurately, the good & the bad. Good luck in your search!
posted by Wen at 7:23 PM on August 3, 2011
The neighborhood Wen is describing is my old neighborhood; I highly recommend it.
On second thought, I don't recommend it, because I want everyone to think it sucks, so that I can move back there and the rent will be cheap.
And I was only saying that City Hall station smells bad, not that the whole Broad Street Line smells bad.
posted by madcaptenor at 7:51 PM on August 3, 2011
On second thought, I don't recommend it, because I want everyone to think it sucks, so that I can move back there and the rent will be cheap.
And I was only saying that City Hall station smells bad, not that the whole Broad Street Line smells bad.
posted by madcaptenor at 7:51 PM on August 3, 2011
Bars, no problem. Philly must be a leader in bars-per-capita.
Fairmount is a great suggestion but always felt a tad remote to Center City (I used to live/work/attend school in/near Rittenhouse Square). West Philly near Upenn is also good but popular and as you head west, certainly sketchy. If I had to move back, I'd opt for Bella Vista, the italian community a few blocks south of South Street (which appears to be actually in decline). BV features all of the advantages of South Philly, lots of families and relatively quiet, yet still near center city.
I would definitely avoid living near Temple, and personally, my comfort level would exclude Fishtown, Northern Liberties, etc.
Maybe coming from other parts of the country Philly's public transportation seems great, but there's a reason why seemingly EVERYONE in South Philly and nearly everyone in emerging neighborhoods like Fishtown have cars. Just my 2 cents...
posted by tremspeed at 10:03 PM on August 3, 2011
Fairmount is a great suggestion but always felt a tad remote to Center City (I used to live/work/attend school in/near Rittenhouse Square). West Philly near Upenn is also good but popular and as you head west, certainly sketchy. If I had to move back, I'd opt for Bella Vista, the italian community a few blocks south of South Street (which appears to be actually in decline). BV features all of the advantages of South Philly, lots of families and relatively quiet, yet still near center city.
I would definitely avoid living near Temple, and personally, my comfort level would exclude Fishtown, Northern Liberties, etc.
Maybe coming from other parts of the country Philly's public transportation seems great, but there's a reason why seemingly EVERYONE in South Philly and nearly everyone in emerging neighborhoods like Fishtown have cars. Just my 2 cents...
posted by tremspeed at 10:03 PM on August 3, 2011
tremspeed: "Maybe coming from other parts of the country Philly's public transportation seems great, but there's a reason why seemingly EVERYONE in South Philly and nearly everyone in emerging neighborhoods like Fishtown have cars. Just my 2 cents..."
Fishtown, absolutely, given the...um, limited options for buying groceries and the less-safely-walkable gap between it and Center City.
South Philly is a different story, I live in what they now call Passyunk Square (near Pat's and Geno's) and very rarely use my car to get someplace within the city. Ideal would be someplace between 10th and Broad; you've got everything you need or want in walking distance, plenty of safe walking routes to Center City, and a ridiculously easy commute to either Temple or Jeff.
posted by desuetude at 11:04 PM on August 4, 2011
Fishtown, absolutely, given the...um, limited options for buying groceries and the less-safely-walkable gap between it and Center City.
South Philly is a different story, I live in what they now call Passyunk Square (near Pat's and Geno's) and very rarely use my car to get someplace within the city. Ideal would be someplace between 10th and Broad; you've got everything you need or want in walking distance, plenty of safe walking routes to Center City, and a ridiculously easy commute to either Temple or Jeff.
posted by desuetude at 11:04 PM on August 4, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you want to tell us where she is going to grad school, that would help.
posted by bearette at 7:15 AM on August 2, 2011