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I would prefer not to? Wow, not a huge Melville crowd, I guess
June 29, 2011 3:31 PM   Subscribe

A person actively avoids doing what he knows will make him happy. He just doesn't want to do it. Psychologically, what's going on here? And more importantly, perhaps, why should he do what he doesn't want to do? What arguments, appealing to either his reason or his emotions, might he consider?

I have a stretch of free time to myself, I've found myself actively avoiding the things I'd planned to do, from projects such as learning a new language to small chores such as cleaning the house. Instead I've been browsing the Internet and watching TV. On one hand, I know that doing what I'd planned will make me happy, but on the other hand, I just don't feel inclined to take any steps towards completing my goals. (Which is not to say I feel very satisfied with my current state.) Would I be better off abandoning my lofty goals?

A related question: the word "healthy" gets used to describe behaviors and thoughts, as in "that's not a healthy way to go about it," or "a healthy way of thinking." But what does health mean here? And why is it an end in itself? (Or is it?) I ask because I'm guessing that spending all day on Metafilter is not a "healthy" way to go through life, but I'm wondering if someone can unpack that sentence for me.
posted by Busoni to Religion & Philosophy (37 answers total) 78 users marked this as a favorite
 
It sounds like you're holding out for something better instead of investing yourself in what you've determined your goals to be.

Instead of indecisively procrastinating, start checking those goals off today, fail fast, and move onto your next goal if this set doesn't work out.

Yup, fail fast. That way it's not such an investment if you can't hack it.
posted by hanoixan at 3:40 PM on June 29, 2011


It was probably very easy (and exciting) to set lofty goals for yourself when the stretch of free time was in the future... but now that it's here, it sounds like your body (or your subconscious, what have you) is rebelling and just telling you that it NEEDS A BREAK. Once you let the guard down of structured pressure/stress/productivity, it can seem faintly ridiculous to force yourself to do not-fun-but-valuable-in-the-long-term activities.

How much longer is your stretch of free time? Can you set aside the first half of it for doing absolutely nothing, then slowly introduce some of the activities you'd originally set your mind to?
posted by mauvest at 3:46 PM on June 29, 2011 [5 favorites]


You are not viewing your free time as a period of time to get something "responsible" done which includes learning a new language and cleaning the house. Yes it will make you happy because it is "responsible".

You prefer to spend it relaxing which to you is browsing the Internet and watching TV. If you want to do something "healthy" during your free time - perhaps you should reconsider relaxing is "healthy"
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 3:48 PM on June 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I have a similar problem myself. I was confounded for years, until last month, when I started reading the book 'Switch' by Chip Heath, which is about creating positive individual and institutional change.

Heath posits that one of the reasons why we don't actually do things that would benefit our lives (like losing weight, exercising more, saving money) is that we lack specific direction and we end up spinning our wheels or not starting in the first place.

When you encounter a big goal like, clean the house, the task can seem very overwhelming. Where do you start? How do you do it? There are a million different ways to do it, and often, we can overanalyze ourselves into inaction.

Instead, you're more likely to complete a task when you break it down into small, specific, direct actions. So instead of saying "I'm going to lose weight", you say "I'm going to drink water instead of soda". Instead of saying "I'm going to clean my house" focus on one task a day, like "wash the dishes" or "after I get home from work everyday, I will take 10 minutes to focus on one room". If you want to learn a new language, find a language book or blog and do one exercise a day, no more. Small, direct, actionable steps are key.

I highly recommend that you check out Switch. The first chapter is available online for free via their website. Another MeFite recommended it to me, and it's really made a difference in my life.

Bonus! It's also available in Spanish! That'll help you learn a new language! (if you're not already an hispanohablante)
posted by chara at 3:58 PM on June 29, 2011 [11 favorites]


As for arguments, here's how Thomas speaks of some terminology and aspects of the condition you describe:

Negligence is a defect in the internal act, to which choice also belongs: whereas idleness and laziness denote slowness of execution, yet so that idleness denotes slowness in setting about the execution, while laziness denotes remissness in the execution itself. Hence it is becoming that laziness should arise from sloth, which is "an oppressive sorrow," i.e. hindering, the mind from action [Cf. 35, 1; I-II, 35, 8].
posted by resurrexit at 3:59 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Avoidance of rather routine tasks such as cleaning the house could be one indication of the beginnings of a depression, or at least disthymia. Rather than view them as a bunch of goals, focus on one at a time, as @hanoixan recommends. Start with the easiest/shortest. As you see progress, the following goals may get easier and easier to begin.

"Healthy" probably means enjoyment of life and avoidance of depression, although there maybe a bit of societal norms in there too. Not cleaning house, not showering, reading MeFi all day won't kill you. It's not "healthy" as it does little to increase self esteem, social interaction, fitness, etc., and it's definitely not the norm.
posted by amoeba syndrome at 4:00 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I have a month and a half of completely unscheduled time, for people who are asking.
posted by Busoni at 4:02 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Much like what chara wrote, I totally find myself doing this when my goals are too big and seem overwhelming. If I can instead commit myself to 10 minutes of cleaning or whatever, that seems way more doable! And generally, once I've started doing a bit more doesn't seem so bad.

So, Bartleby, get off the computer and go clean for 10 minutes!
posted by grapesaresour at 4:04 PM on June 29, 2011


Goals, schmoals. You've got loads of free time. Relax. Eventually, you'll get bored with relaxing, and that's when the goals come in handy. But until then, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a break from work to, you know, take a break.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:07 PM on June 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Maybe you really wanted to loaf. You've done that. The best way to get moving is to unplug the teevee and router, so there's no teevee or internet. Both are incredibly "sticky" and you can lose a huge chunk of time. I cut my cable from 100 channels to the basics, and am getting more done. I may cut it entirely.
posted by theora55 at 4:22 PM on June 29, 2011


I am like this SO OFTEN.

Today, I consider myself absolutely and totally insane when I am in this mode of being, and I must break the spell at any cost.

Things that have worked:
- Exercise.
- Smaller plans, break it down.
- Writing down lists and checking them off.
- Bupropion.
- Meditation.
- Exercise.
- Get started at any cost, just get started get started get started, and the ball will roll.

If I had to pick one, I'd pick exercise.
posted by krilli at 4:23 PM on June 29, 2011


Also GET OUT OF THE HOUSE!!!! SUPER IMPORTANT! Houses are freaking dangerous, can be very vegetativeness-inducing.
posted by krilli at 4:23 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I have to remind myself that slack-off time is just as valuable as time spent actively doing something. Your brain may be telling you it needs a break, or it's going to blow up on you at a spectacularly bad time. Find out why your brain is telling you it doesn't want to start your big activities -- too nebulous? Too complex? Or does it really just not want to do anything right now? Then listen to whatever you hear. Time off is just as productive as learning a new language, just not in the way you might be used to.

Some people do best with the boom-bust cycle that results in several months of super productivity in whatever followed by a couple months of emptiness as they recharge. Some people prefer to balance work/recharging that provides a more stable schedule. If you're in a boom-bust cycle and unhappy with it, the key is to make the change during the super-productivity period, not during the recharging period.
posted by lilac girl at 4:27 PM on June 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


You Are Not So Smart's entry on procrastination might be of interest to you. Many of the things we want to do are things we want to do... later. TV and internet are things we want to do now. Trouble is, what time is it now? It's always now. Even when it's later, it'll still be now.

Recognizing that helps put things in perspective for me. You still need loafing breaks, of course, but you will in the future, too. Don't piss off your future self by assuming he wants to do all the productive stuff and let your current self hog all the downtime.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:04 PM on June 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Thanks for the responses so far.

Going beyond "hacks" like breaking things into small pieces, what if a person doesn't even want to take that first step? To take a person with depression who refuses to go to therapy, knowing that being depressed is miserable and therapy would probably help. Is this person acting rationally? Why do things we don't want to (given the absence of external coercion)?

I think describing health as enjoyment of life is on the right track, though. That makes intuitive sense to me, for some reason.
posted by Busoni at 5:13 PM on June 29, 2011


The purpose of a desire is not to get what you're after, it's to constitute you as a desiring entity. You want to want something. If you got what you wanted, then your life would feel empty. Right now, you "know" that your goals would make you happy, and by never doing them, you avoid being disappointed. You keep your distance from the object of desire to save your desire from being extinguished by reaching it.

A "healthy" person is someone who acts in ways that help them achieve their desires. But since everyone sabotages themselves, there are no healthy people. "Healthy" is impossible, so it is an ideal object of desire because it always keeps its distance.
posted by AlsoMike at 5:34 PM on June 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Stop telling yourself you have to do things you don't want to do? Perhaps the end result will make you happy. but before that, comes quite a lot of work, which may or may not include the steps of getting stuff wrong, frustration, lots of effort (for instance when trying to learn a language).

So maybe eventually you'll feel happy and accomplished (until you tell yourself about the next thing you "have" to do?) but before that comes hours of doing stuff that is not real fun. Sometimes it may not be worth it. I for one just don't feel like making a whole bunch of little plans all the time. They seem to clutter up the place and get in the way of what pursuits I really think are important.
posted by citron at 5:38 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Part of the problem is that the rewards for your "healthy" projects are delayed, while the costs are immediate. In contrast, browsing the net or watching your favorite TV show is rewarding right now. Our brains tend to be wired to prioritize immediate consequences over long-term considerations.

One way around this is to find a "healthy" project where you enjoy the immediate process as much as the long-term goals. For example, I'm not really fond of exercising, but I love practicing martial arts. As a result, I can get myself to go to jiu-jitsu class and get a level of exercise that I would never maintain if I was just doing pushups and jogging in hopes of getting fit.

Another way around it is to make a game where you give yourself some sort of immediate rewards for your daily work on your desired goal. I've had some good luck using this approach by signing up for the MeFi team at Health Month.
posted by tdismukes at 5:44 PM on June 29, 2011


Two things that jump out at me is the examples you gave. The first one, learning a language, is something that everybody thinks is neat to do but that most people don't actually have to do. Perhaps you are having trouble committing to that one because you don't really want to do it, or because you recognize that you don't actually have a strong need in your life to be able to speak an additional language. For things like this, the answer might be to just not do it.

The other example you gave, cleaning the house, is the kind of thing that can be left forever because it never, on its own, becomes urgent--it's never the most important thing you need to do, and for many people, never the thing you most want to do. It's for stuff like this that techniques like breaking it into small individual tasks can really help. That does in some sense just push the motivation back a notch--you still have to get yourself to do tonight's 10 minutes or whatever--but for me it is the only thing that has worked on that kind of thing. On the other hand, I used to have a friend who literally never did housework because she just didn't like it. Her house was always very tidy because she was an orderly person, but she never swept. (On reflection, she must have done bathrooms from time to time because I don't remember them being gross.) I have often mentally looked to her as a reminder that there are lots of things I think need doing that I can actually opt out of. Sometimes I opt out, and that's a good choice. And sometimes I decide to do them anyway, and they get easier because I recognize that I am choosing to do them.
posted by not that girl at 5:47 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Busoni: "
Going beyond "hacks" like breaking things into small pieces, what if a person doesn't even want to take that first step? To take a person with depression who refuses to go to therapy, knowing that being depressed is miserable and therapy would probably help. Is this person acting rationally? Why do things we don't want to (given the absence of external coercion)?
"

Someone (or several someones) on AskMeFi recommended The Happiness Trap for similar questions and I've got to say, that book is absolutely changing my life. It's amazing. If you work through the exercises, honestly answer the questions, and apply what you've learned to your real life circumstances, there is no way that you can come away unsatisfied. I'm one of those people who have no problem telling other people "therapy!", but for my own particular circumstances, I'm extremely private, stubborn, and weird. Therapy didn't cut it for me. However, working on my problems in a logical, solitary fashion with the methods suggested in that book are really working wonders. I can't recommend it highly enough, especially if you've been resistive to traditional forms of therapy or haven't achieved the results you've wanted from other methods.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 5:53 PM on June 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


P.S. Props on the Bartleby reference. That made me laugh.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 6:00 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hi. Um, possibly you are bean-plating and therefore making things that are actually natural and necessary into a guilt-inducing problem?

Psychologically and emotionally, most people require more "down-time" than they realize or usually get time for in life. Furthermore, if you are belittling yourself up about doing nothing, you are destroying the quality of your down-time, making the cycle last longer.

Really. You need more time to pfaff about than you think. Resolve to enjoy doing nothing today (or a few more days) but really enjoy it, and then start cleaning the house when your down-town is over.
posted by jbenben at 6:06 PM on June 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Could it be that you're simply lazy?
posted by Leontine at 7:19 PM on June 29, 2011


I don't know if this is true of you, but I consistently have an over-inflated idea of what I can accomplish, how hard I can work, and how consistently I can keep working at a certain level. When a break arrives, I inevitably have the expectation that I should be able to keep working exactly as hard as I have been, just on different stuff.

I'm starting to understand that we work in cycles of productivity and recuperation. Downtime is not wasted time; it's necessary to prepare yourself for your next period of productivity.

Fretting about not working, though, is not a good way to recuperate! When you're tired out, yet you are trying unsuccessfully to egg yourself on to the next project, you can fall into a spiral of guilt and procrastination, and find that you are unable to make the good, rational, healthy decisions that you desperately want to make. I may be wrong, but it sounds like this is the kind of place you're coming from right now.

Your current job needs to be: relax and recuperate.

It's hard and counter-intuitive, but when you stop pressuring yourself to work, you'll be able to recharge your batteries, and then you'll again have the natural desire to work.

If you are feeling bad about not working, ask yourself, "Is the thing I'm doing now helping me relax and recuperate?" or simply, "Am I enjoying what I'm doing right now?" If you're aimlessly web surfing, the answer might be, "no." Choose something relaxing and/or enjoyable instead, and build up your stores of energy. Like krilli says, get out of the house. Get some gentle exercise. (Meditation helps you notice when you're stressing yourself out, and that is the first step to turning your thoughts and actions in a more positive direction—so another nod to krilli!)

You'll know that you're rested up when you find that you're eager to get going on that language-learning project. And you might not be jazzed about cleaning house, but it won't seem so impossible.
posted by BrashTech at 7:23 PM on June 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I am a difficult, not all that nice person-- and I am extremely impulsive.

When I follow my impulses, I can be a danger to self and others.

In order to contain myself, half the time I turn up my global level of inhibition so high I could barely force myself to run out of the house if it was burning down around me.

Is there something you're trying hard not to do, such as overeating or drinking too much?
posted by jamjam at 8:00 PM on June 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Going beyond "hacks" like breaking things into small pieces, what if a person doesn't even want to take that first step? To take a person with depression who refuses to go to therapy, knowing that being depressed is miserable and therapy would probably help. Is this person acting rationally? Why do things we don't want to (given the absence of external coercion)?

In my experience, you can force yourself to do something you don't want to do for a little while, but it's not going to stick for very long. I think the brain is very good at getting what it wants, and you can trick it for a little while but it will eventually come out one way or another. The only way to really do something unenjoyable, and to stick with it long enough to see results, is to have the benefits of action outweigh the cons of inaction. A person who needs therapy will only stick with it when they really truly decide therapy is less awful than not being in therapy, not when it's just what they're supposed to do. Someone who hates working out but does it anyway will only stick with it when they decide "I need to do this to get healthy," not when they think it's a punishment for being fat.

I think "healthy" is about knowing what you need and why, and then giving it to yourself. Learning a foreign language may be the most "rational" and "efficient" way for a person to spend their free time, but is that really what you need? It might be healthy for one person to study during their free time, but it might be awfully destructive for another person. For me, healthy vegging out is when I recognize I'm stressed and need some time to recharge and it makes me happy; unhealthy vegging out is when I do it to avoid something I'm scared or nervous about. The line between the two is blurry and different for everyone, but you learn to recognize it by knowing yourself. Meditation helps with that, therapy can too, sometimes just chatting with a friend can do it.

And I'm going to call out your title as an Archer reference.
posted by lilac girl at 8:15 PM on June 29, 2011


For something different: what you describe has long been a major topic in philosophy called akrasia, or weakness of the will. Reading about akrasia isn't likely to help resolve your problem, but it's pretty interesting in itself.
posted by Maxa at 12:15 AM on June 30, 2011


Holy crap, you're me.

It's taken me years to get to this stage, but I'm starting to clean my house. It's a slow, painful process, and sometimes I go a few days without doing anything, but you know what helped me start? Starting a blog (shameless self-promotion, mods delete link if it's inappropriate). For some reason, having some semi-anonymous accountability and a semi-anonymous cheering section has so far been motivating me to accomplish more around my house in the last week than I had in the last two months.

I've taken to doing fake pushups against the counter while I wait for my food to finish cooking. They're not that hard, but after so many years of lazing about it's a good way for me to sneak in a bit of calorie-burning. Also, I'm drinking more water these days, which seems to help me. I have to, you know, go about four times a day, but I drain at least a one-liter Nalgene bottle a day plus whatever other drinks/food I take in.
posted by Heretical at 12:30 AM on June 30, 2011


Thanks again, everyone, lot of good responses such that I'm not marking them all best answers.

@lilac girl: Actually, it's an Inception reference, because it's a reference within a reference. :)

@Maxa Thanks, I just remembered I'd come across that concept at some point but I'd completely forgotten about it.

Upon further reflection, I think for me it was the framing of the situation that bogged me down. Part of it was rebelling against the obligation of doing these things, part of it was gaining control over the said situation, part of it was a reaction to my prediction that this was going to be yet another summer vacation wasted, and so failure became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also, I'm coming off the final week of work last week, which was pretty tough, so I guess it's pretty natural that the first week or so, as people mentioned, would be spent relaxing (albeit with high anxiety).

For some reason, I'm feeling a lot better at this point, I imagine because I've been talking about it and not mulling over it by myself. I'm also reading the The Now Habit (although even that's been difficult to make progress with, kind of ironically), which helps.

After reading what others have said, I think the reason why the person with depression who doesn't go to therapy can be described as NOT rationally is that the person is miserable. If he liked being depressed, without reservation, then it'd be one thing, but it's not.

But as people have pointed out, there's the conflict between the present self and the future self, and the present self is hardwired to look out for number one. So reasoned arguments such as "you'll feel much better afterwards" might not work to a person in an unhealthy state.

Also, I don't know if it's that relevant, but I'm learning this language because I've spent about three years in a foreign country, without having learned the language, getting by because everyone speaks perfect English. So it's actually not all that lofty, but it is something I'd framed as: I have to do it > I'm not doing it > I'm a failure > I'm never going to do it > Well fine, screw you, then, I won't do it > God I'm such a failure.
posted by Busoni at 12:38 AM on June 30, 2011


Get a Pimsleur course in the language. Do a lesson each morning while you are getting dressed.

Don't do anything else. Just this.
posted by tel3path at 4:25 AM on June 30, 2011 [1 favorite]


Part of your problem might be related to the words "comfort zone" and "ruts".

I recently listened to a radio program on the biochemical (and hereditary) background to addiction, and found it helped me to think about my own decisions and preferences. I'm not saying your are addicted to the behaviors you are using to waste time, I'm just saying there are neurological feedback mechanisms that may be at play (but IANAD and IANAB).

The scientist said that his "take away" for his own life was that he should distribute his pleasures across a wide range of activities (dining, entertainment, intellectual, sexual, nature, relaxation, etc.) As a matter of fact this AskMeFi thread caught my eye because of just having heard that program.

The radio program aired on WHYY on 6-23-2011 (in my area) and discussed the author's book "The Compass of Pleasure". I believe this is the link to listen to the program itself and this is the link to the transcript.

I would strongly recommend this program, but YMMV.
posted by forthright at 4:43 AM on June 30, 2011 [4 favorites]


Could it be that you're simply lazy?
Nice.

I understand this situation well - every so often I have a free weekend, and on the Thursday think 'Great! I'll declutter the wardrobe/start a project/watch films' and by Sunday, I've done nothing useful.
posted by mippy at 9:46 AM on June 30, 2011


Saying that you want to learn a language is easy in a vacuum. You imagine having learned a language and the satisfaction you'd get from that, but you ignore the other side of the equation -- all the hours spent learning it that you could have been doing something else.

If you want to convince yourself to learn the language, find a way to make learning the language something you choose to do. (Duh, but it's important to think of it that way.) You can join a class which will help keep you to a curriculum, you could join a club that practices that language, you can schedule a vacation to a country that speaks that language, etc. You just have to get specific.

I think it's also good to give yourself permission to say that you don't really want to learn a language, you just have some feeling that you should. That "should" is not an absolute truth, so figure out where you got it and then decide whether you really believe it.

For the house, imagine having a clean house. Yay, nice to have a clean house. Now imagine cleaning. Yuck. So imagine cleaning while listening to a podcast. Or cleaning while watching t.v. More appetizing? Maybe invite some company over that you want to impress with your clean house. Maybe plan a party. Etc.
posted by callmejay at 10:48 AM on June 30, 2011


This is much more common than you would believe. The psychology is simple. If you build something up too great, then you won't do it because it'll be at the cost of its meaning. Whenever you get what you want, then you lose your want. If you have made that dream your It, then it will never be It. Psychologically, it is a defense strategy. Because sometimes that bit of meaning, that dream in the future, It might be all we have. Without that sun on the horizon, you'll lose your bearings.

The solution is to aim higher. Things like learning a language must be a stepping point toward your It. But it must remain at the distance. Ideally, it should be something impossible.
posted by TwelveTwo at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2011 [2 favorites]


I used to feel badly for procrastinating. Then I came across a book called The Procrastination Equation which strips the value judgment out of the issue and presents the reason why we put things off in terms of the underlying psychological forces.

The equation is:

Motivation = (Expectancy X Value) / (Distraction X Delay)

Expectancy is your belief as to whether you will be successful in your task. The higher your assessment (confidence) the higher your motivation (and the less procrastination).

Value is the reward that you get from accomplishing the task. Again, the higher the reward the higher the motivation and the lower the temptation to procrastinate.

Distraction is how easily you are distracted. The more susceptible you are to impulsiveness, the more likely you are to be distracted and procrastination increases.

Delay is the time before you receive the reward from your task. The longer the delay, the bigger the hit to motivation.

Breaking it down this way gives you the framework for understanding what's going on. You can then work on each of these factors. Easily distracted? Make it more difficult to surf the Web. Low Expectancy? Redefine the task to make it simpler and more achievable.
posted by storybored at 5:17 PM on June 30, 2011 [2 favorites]


I think this is two-fold -- wanting constant easy stimulation, and not wanting to get off the couch.

Sitting in front of the computer, you are never alone with your thoughts, as you would be doing the dishes, for example. Sometimes a person's own thoughts are overwhelming, especially when they are as full of "should" as yours seem to be, and it's easier to just avoid that. So, as a work-around -- don't be alone with your thoughts. When you are cleaning, or doing something else mindless -- listen to podcasts, like "This American Life", "BBC4 From Our Own Correspondent", or (Way more interesting than you would think it could be!) "A History of the World in 100 Objects." The task gets done, and your mind gets the same kind of stimulation you get here. When you are doing something that needs more concentration (but is boring), play music in the background.

The other thing is not wanting to get off the couch at all. For me, it is a feeling of "may no new thing happen." I find myself believing that nothing can happen on my couch -- I can't fail, or be disappointed, or lose anything -- unlike the rest of life. Of course, that is not the case. On my couch, I am getting older. On my couch, I am losing my looks and my health. On my couch, I am living in squalor, and I have to go in my nasty kitchen sometime. So it's not a choice between not doing anything, and doing something positive -- it's a choice between doing something negative... and doing something else.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 6:05 PM on June 30, 2011 [5 favorites]


Here's a trick that sometimes works for me; in fact, it's about to kick me into stepping away from the computer and doing something I need to do. Instead of implicitly asking yourself "What would I rather do for the next ten minutes: read Metafilter or [do something worthy]?", try explicitly asking "How much better would I feel right now if I'd spent the last ten minutes [doing something worthy] instead of browsing?".

(And I emphatically second pH on the podcasts-while-cleaning thing.)

Also, you have MeMail regarding forcing yourself to study a foreign language when you live in the country in question but everyone there speaks perfect English. Am there, doing that...
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 5:09 AM on July 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


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