Weirdness at work - how should I have handled it?
June 6, 2011 10:46 AM Subscribe
Did I handle this (possible sexual harassment) situation correctly?
I work as a consultant in a large firm, and I was assigned to help take some of the load off of another consultant (from the same agency), meaning we have to work together on a daily basis. He has a lot of knowledge about the company, and we have to share the responsibility of managing the incident/request queue.
Having said that, since I started in late January, I've thought his behavior was a bit off. He's extremely religious, which I don't really have an issue with - but that in combination with other things have made me very uncomfortable.
Such as :
- cleaning my car (while it was parked in the company lot)
- flowers on several different random occasions
- small gifts (chocolate, car cleaning supplies, etc…)
- internet stalking (responding to posts on personal blog via work email, printing photo from my personal Flickr account of family home and leaving it on desk)
- referring to me as “beautiful” and “pretty” in emails
- inappropriate emails (one of the most offensive is below)
The email (bold is mine): "I will miss you that is for sure.
You are very special to me, and I still am not sure why all that is.
If you need anything, you can always ask.
And I know this will sound strange, but if things change in your life, and I am not saying that I expect them to. (But if you look at my past you can understand how I know that they can and do.) Look me up, and we will see what else God might have for a couple of nuts like you and me. (I could make it sound really strange, but I don’t think I need to.)
I had Steffi do that to me, but I was happily married and had a family. I don’t think there was anything that could have moved me from those vows. But that is just me. I have this strange thing I do. When I am in a serious relationship, and I see another “good looking” woman, it makes me think of the one I am with, and makes me want the one I am with, even more.
Well, I think you get what I mean. But if you just need a friend, I am already that to you."
I had a discussion with my manager here a few weeks ago, but I didn't want to file a formal complaint then. He had a casual discussion with the employee, but the emails kept coming, so I ignored them. After the most recent stuff (which included the internet stalking), I told my manager that more formal steps needed to be taken. He said that he would address it with HR, but since I actually worked for the consulting firm, I should let them know as well.
My local recruiter said to me, "Well, did you ever sit down with R__ and let him know that his behavior was inappropriate and made you uncomfortable?"
My answer was NO, because as I said, I have to work with this guy pretty closely. I felt angry because it seemed like the recruiter was blaming me - should I have had a personal conversation with this guy? I think it's up to people at work to know how to behave at work, and if they don't, that's a job for their manager or HR.
Note : I didn't give this guy any encouragement - I have a solid relationship with my partner (we live together), and I bring him up in conversation from time to time. I told this person that flowers weren't really necessary, and gave him back his last gift of chocolate (claimed I was on a diet). I'm going to a new job next week, so I'll be getting out of this situation.
I work as a consultant in a large firm, and I was assigned to help take some of the load off of another consultant (from the same agency), meaning we have to work together on a daily basis. He has a lot of knowledge about the company, and we have to share the responsibility of managing the incident/request queue.
Having said that, since I started in late January, I've thought his behavior was a bit off. He's extremely religious, which I don't really have an issue with - but that in combination with other things have made me very uncomfortable.
Such as :
- cleaning my car (while it was parked in the company lot)
- flowers on several different random occasions
- small gifts (chocolate, car cleaning supplies, etc…)
- internet stalking (responding to posts on personal blog via work email, printing photo from my personal Flickr account of family home and leaving it on desk)
- referring to me as “beautiful” and “pretty” in emails
- inappropriate emails (one of the most offensive is below)
The email (bold is mine): "I will miss you that is for sure.
You are very special to me, and I still am not sure why all that is.
If you need anything, you can always ask.
And I know this will sound strange, but if things change in your life, and I am not saying that I expect them to. (But if you look at my past you can understand how I know that they can and do.) Look me up, and we will see what else God might have for a couple of nuts like you and me. (I could make it sound really strange, but I don’t think I need to.)
I had Steffi do that to me, but I was happily married and had a family. I don’t think there was anything that could have moved me from those vows. But that is just me. I have this strange thing I do. When I am in a serious relationship, and I see another “good looking” woman, it makes me think of the one I am with, and makes me want the one I am with, even more.
Well, I think you get what I mean. But if you just need a friend, I am already that to you."
I had a discussion with my manager here a few weeks ago, but I didn't want to file a formal complaint then. He had a casual discussion with the employee, but the emails kept coming, so I ignored them. After the most recent stuff (which included the internet stalking), I told my manager that more formal steps needed to be taken. He said that he would address it with HR, but since I actually worked for the consulting firm, I should let them know as well.
My local recruiter said to me, "Well, did you ever sit down with R__ and let him know that his behavior was inappropriate and made you uncomfortable?"
My answer was NO, because as I said, I have to work with this guy pretty closely. I felt angry because it seemed like the recruiter was blaming me - should I have had a personal conversation with this guy? I think it's up to people at work to know how to behave at work, and if they don't, that's a job for their manager or HR.
Note : I didn't give this guy any encouragement - I have a solid relationship with my partner (we live together), and I bring him up in conversation from time to time. I told this person that flowers weren't really necessary, and gave him back his last gift of chocolate (claimed I was on a diet). I'm going to a new job next week, so I'll be getting out of this situation.
Local recruiter = dipshit. Can you go above the local recruiter's head? I'm pretty sure that the legal dept would like to know that you had a discussion about something like this and were told to deal with it yourself.
posted by spicynuts at 10:53 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by spicynuts at 10:53 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sometimes HR will want, if not need, some sort of record of you telling this harasser to stop, as opposed to having the conversation with HR be the first time the harasser has directly heard that the attention is unwanted. The legal aspect of this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:55 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:55 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not necessarily defending your recruiter, but I am saying that they might want you to confront the harasser for official reasons aside from their own laziness.
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:56 AM on June 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:56 AM on June 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
You missed your opportunities to set things right when you weren't direct about the flowers and chocolate. You weren't telling him no when you should have, which he could easily have interpreted as it was o.k. with you if he gave you flowers and chocolate. If it continued after that, that is when you should go to HR.
(just saying I think that would have been the best way to handle it. But really, he is out of line, so whatever you do is just fine and right and be o.k. with it.)
posted by Vaike at 10:56 AM on June 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
(just saying I think that would have been the best way to handle it. But really, he is out of line, so whatever you do is just fine and right and be o.k. with it.)
posted by Vaike at 10:56 AM on June 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
I've also always heard that you should communicate first with the harasser yourself. As I understand it, it's unwanted advances that are the subject of most harrassment policies (though some are more severe in banning overt relationships of all kinds). There's no way he can know it's unwanted unless you give him that message.
If, after you do this, you find he's not able to work closely with you in a professional manner, or the harassment continues, then you clearly have an issue for management.
You should probably find out what you need to do to document your conversation with HR before having it. Make a note in writing that day which can be dated, as well.
It's definitely inappropriate behavior, but he may feel he's just being romantic. If you were receptive to this stuff and encouraged it, it might not be harassing. He needs to hear from you that this is crossing a line and you're not interested.
posted by Miko at 10:57 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
If, after you do this, you find he's not able to work closely with you in a professional manner, or the harassment continues, then you clearly have an issue for management.
You should probably find out what you need to do to document your conversation with HR before having it. Make a note in writing that day which can be dated, as well.
It's definitely inappropriate behavior, but he may feel he's just being romantic. If you were receptive to this stuff and encouraged it, it might not be harassing. He needs to hear from you that this is crossing a line and you're not interested.
posted by Miko at 10:57 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It wasn't unreasonable for the recruiter to ask that. He wasn't blaming you, but it's a different story for the recruiter if you've set firm boundaries and the guy was knowingly violating them, vs. the guy being a clueless (or pushy, whatever) dude who can't take a hint.
You pretty much have to tell socially clueless people (or people who find it useful to pretend they aren't picking up on social signals) directly. It's not reasonable to expect he can read your mind to know this is unwanted, because if he could, he would have stopped already. It's a good skill to learn to be able to say "I am not comfortable with this level of personal attention; I need you to back off" in a firm but non-hostile way.
So whether or not that's been done affects what the next step is. You don't say what the "casual conversation" your manager had with the guy was like - I assume you don't know details. It doesn't sound like the recruiter was so much disclaiming responsibility as finding out what the sequence of events was. But it's not realistic or helpful for you to assume that HR will always take care of this sort of thing in a useful way.
Here's the thing. Telling people to back off is awkward and can lead to fallout (which is why it's harassment and not ok in the first place.) But you can't depend on anyone to set and defend your boundaries for you. Management won't do it, HR won't do it. You totally did the right thing getting them involved, and good for you for escalating when you need to. But particularly since you're leaving this job, now is a fantastic time to practice having that super awkward conversation.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:58 AM on June 6, 2011 [16 favorites]
You pretty much have to tell socially clueless people (or people who find it useful to pretend they aren't picking up on social signals) directly. It's not reasonable to expect he can read your mind to know this is unwanted, because if he could, he would have stopped already. It's a good skill to learn to be able to say "I am not comfortable with this level of personal attention; I need you to back off" in a firm but non-hostile way.
So whether or not that's been done affects what the next step is. You don't say what the "casual conversation" your manager had with the guy was like - I assume you don't know details. It doesn't sound like the recruiter was so much disclaiming responsibility as finding out what the sequence of events was. But it's not realistic or helpful for you to assume that HR will always take care of this sort of thing in a useful way.
Here's the thing. Telling people to back off is awkward and can lead to fallout (which is why it's harassment and not ok in the first place.) But you can't depend on anyone to set and defend your boundaries for you. Management won't do it, HR won't do it. You totally did the right thing getting them involved, and good for you for escalating when you need to. But particularly since you're leaving this job, now is a fantastic time to practice having that super awkward conversation.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:58 AM on June 6, 2011 [16 favorites]
I had a similar situation at my old job except I didn't know who was leaving me gifts until he presented me with his sketches of me. Luckily, I had a really great experience with my boss and company's HR department.
One thing I wish I would have done was to have voiced my shock and uncomfortability. I know it now and I'm glad I learned that lesson, but I really wish I had set my boundaries earlier and on my own. I won't always have the luxury of having a great boss or a pro-active HR department.
posted by spec80 at 11:03 AM on June 6, 2011
One thing I wish I would have done was to have voiced my shock and uncomfortability. I know it now and I'm glad I learned that lesson, but I really wish I had set my boundaries earlier and on my own. I won't always have the luxury of having a great boss or a pro-active HR department.
posted by spec80 at 11:03 AM on June 6, 2011
It may be uncomfortable, but an email back to him, specifically stating "I would prefer we keep our relationship on a professional level, and would appreciate you respecting my privacy and boundaries inside the office and outside the office."
Use your company's email. Any further correspondence from him gets forwarded to your HR.
I wasn't clear, though, if you work for a consulting company that he also works for, if you're independent and just working through the same sourcing company. the latter making things slightly more complicated on who to go to with the issue.
posted by rich at 11:08 AM on June 6, 2011
Use your company's email. Any further correspondence from him gets forwarded to your HR.
I wasn't clear, though, if you work for a consulting company that he also works for, if you're independent and just working through the same sourcing company. the latter making things slightly more complicated on who to go to with the issue.
posted by rich at 11:08 AM on June 6, 2011
Best answer: I think a lot of people in this thread might be missing that this was addressed with the gentleman by your manager before HR became involved, this is an entirely appropriate chain of events. If the dipshit local recruiter has any further problems with your efforts I would refer them to your manager.
posted by Blasdelb at 11:20 AM on June 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Blasdelb at 11:20 AM on June 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
Creepy Dude has already been told by his manager that he needs to knock it off. If Creepy Dude is disobeying his manager, then it definitely needs to be escalated up the chain regardless of what HopperFan did or did not say to CD.
OP, one thing to consider is that the harassment may not stop once you leave the job - CD is already stalking you online (I hope you don't use this username anywhere else). If you need to get a restraining order, the police will also ask you if you've told CD directly to stop. So you might want to do that anyway.
posted by desjardins at 11:26 AM on June 6, 2011
OP, one thing to consider is that the harassment may not stop once you leave the job - CD is already stalking you online (I hope you don't use this username anywhere else). If you need to get a restraining order, the police will also ask you if you've told CD directly to stop. So you might want to do that anyway.
posted by desjardins at 11:26 AM on June 6, 2011
Oh, and create a paper trail - save any emails that you get from your manager or HR and take them with you when you leave the job. Better safe than sorry.
posted by desjardins at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hi everyone - I went ahead and sat down with the guy to talk to him - privately, but in a public area (the company cafeteria). He took it very well, and apologized. Then he proceeded to tell me that he'd discovered my partner's last name and his website, and asked a question about it! Argh.
My recruiter apologized to me as well, and said that they'd made the decision to let the employee go - they'll be coming out to talk to him today. The tipping point for them was exactly what Blasdeb brought up, that my manager had already had a discussion with him to "knock it off," and he wasn't able to do that.
posted by HopperFan at 11:48 AM on June 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
My recruiter apologized to me as well, and said that they'd made the decision to let the employee go - they'll be coming out to talk to him today. The tipping point for them was exactly what Blasdeb brought up, that my manager had already had a discussion with him to "knock it off," and he wasn't able to do that.
posted by HopperFan at 11:48 AM on June 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
You know, you might wanna think about the fact that this guy is sounding really stalkerish.
Please be careful.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:55 AM on June 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
Please be careful.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:55 AM on June 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
Best answer: The "work it out with the harasser first" thing is problematic for Ask/Guess reasons. On one hand, I've had coworkers who were incredibly easily offended or paranoid about benign, not-unprofessional behavior that could have been easily fixed with a quick word.
But I despise the way that it gets thrown around as "it's your job to explain what behavior you personally find unpleasant after each incident" as if it's unreasonable to expect employees to grasp some generally accepted professional standards. In situations like yours, the problem is often that giving the Coldly Delivered Cease And Desist Talk is something that only emerges as necessary in hindsight.
You discouraged his early forays into unprofessionalville by not rewarding them with attention, then brought it to the attention of your manager when it escalated. Cite your own authority if needed -- as a professional, you know very well how to be friendly and cordial within colleagues without implying encouragement towards a personal relationship. You are not responsible for his behavior.
Don't let the recruiter get you defensive, and don't accept any amateur cross-examination bullshit. I've seen too many female colleagues get chided for being "too nice" by not going ballistic at the first blip of too-personal tidbit of discussion. The ones who go ballistic at the first blip of too-personal discussion are of course hysterical and oversensitive about the "misunderstanding." It can all get very sexist very quickly, and we shouldn't stand for it.
posted by desuetude at 12:01 PM on June 6, 2011 [15 favorites]
But I despise the way that it gets thrown around as "it's your job to explain what behavior you personally find unpleasant after each incident" as if it's unreasonable to expect employees to grasp some generally accepted professional standards. In situations like yours, the problem is often that giving the Coldly Delivered Cease And Desist Talk is something that only emerges as necessary in hindsight.
You discouraged his early forays into unprofessionalville by not rewarding them with attention, then brought it to the attention of your manager when it escalated. Cite your own authority if needed -- as a professional, you know very well how to be friendly and cordial within colleagues without implying encouragement towards a personal relationship. You are not responsible for his behavior.
Don't let the recruiter get you defensive, and don't accept any amateur cross-examination bullshit. I've seen too many female colleagues get chided for being "too nice" by not going ballistic at the first blip of too-personal tidbit of discussion. The ones who go ballistic at the first blip of too-personal discussion are of course hysterical and oversensitive about the "misunderstanding." It can all get very sexist very quickly, and we shouldn't stand for it.
posted by desuetude at 12:01 PM on June 6, 2011 [15 favorites]
He cleaned your car???
This is about a hundred miles over the line, and makes nonsense of any advice that you should have had a 'conversation' with him in hopes of setting some kind of liimit.
In the average car there are documents specifying home addresses, phone numbers, bank accounts and and all kinds of other things-- especially for a consultant who goes from job site to job site and doesn't have a normal desk. You would have to assume he now knows anything about you he could have found out there, and that you have all the vulnerabilities to him that ensue from that.
Talking to harassers can always provoke the 'you uppity bitch! you think you're to good for me, don't you?' reaction, and going as far as entering your car without your permission or knowledge makes that reaction much more probable, in my opinion.
He should have been fired the instant this action could have been confirmed.
Now you have to watch out for him and your company.
posted by jamjam at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
This is about a hundred miles over the line, and makes nonsense of any advice that you should have had a 'conversation' with him in hopes of setting some kind of liimit.
In the average car there are documents specifying home addresses, phone numbers, bank accounts and and all kinds of other things-- especially for a consultant who goes from job site to job site and doesn't have a normal desk. You would have to assume he now knows anything about you he could have found out there, and that you have all the vulnerabilities to him that ensue from that.
Talking to harassers can always provoke the 'you uppity bitch! you think you're to good for me, don't you?' reaction, and going as far as entering your car without your permission or knowledge makes that reaction much more probable, in my opinion.
He should have been fired the instant this action could have been confirmed.
Now you have to watch out for him and your company.
posted by jamjam at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: "entering your car"
Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well - he's been cleaning the exterior. My car is always locked, and it has an alarm.
posted by HopperFan at 12:23 PM on June 6, 2011
Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well - he's been cleaning the exterior. My car is always locked, and it has an alarm.
posted by HopperFan at 12:23 PM on June 6, 2011
Best answer: You pretty much have to tell socially clueless people (or people who find it useful to pretend they aren't picking up on social signals) directly. It's not reasonable to expect he can read your mind to know this is unwanted, because if he could, he would have stopped already.
This makes sense if you are objecting to behavior that could reasonably be considered normal, like someone talking too loud on the phone or something, but in this case I think you did the right thing by just bringing it up to your manager. A lot of what you mentioned is clearly over the line as far as professionalism goes so you were completely justified in taking it to your manager and then wanting to go for a formal complaint without ever bringing it up to him directly. He should know better and it's not your job to set boundaries that are already well established in a professional setting.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:58 PM on June 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
This makes sense if you are objecting to behavior that could reasonably be considered normal, like someone talking too loud on the phone or something, but in this case I think you did the right thing by just bringing it up to your manager. A lot of what you mentioned is clearly over the line as far as professionalism goes so you were completely justified in taking it to your manager and then wanting to go for a formal complaint without ever bringing it up to him directly. He should know better and it's not your job to set boundaries that are already well established in a professional setting.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:58 PM on June 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
Hi everyone - I went ahead and sat down with the guy to talk to him - privately, but in a public area (the company cafeteria). He took it very well, and apologized. Then he proceeded to tell me that he'd discovered my partner's last name and his website, and asked a question about it! Argh
Should've previewed! He apparently took it well because he's either clueless, deluded, or, uh, something worse? Make sure you report to the recruiter and your manager that the guy forged ahead with more too-personal details.
It's not a bad idea to exchange some correspondence regarding privacy policies in regards to personal information about employees and consultants. Close-out policies for the company for whom you consulted, too, including IT, since you were using their email server, and Finance, if they paid or reimbursed you directly.
It's so easy to get personal information if you know the culture and sound plausible. Any personal info about you that goes beyond strictly need-to-know -- emergency phone contacts, alternate phone numbers, etc -- get that stuff "updated" for now, for both companies. I say "updated" instead of purged because in my experience, it's easier. It's a routine request that's generally prioritized, it doesn't bring into play anyone's opinion as to whether you're being paranoid or a prima donna, and besides, some systems have fields that can't be left blank.
posted by desuetude at 1:00 PM on June 6, 2011
Should've previewed! He apparently took it well because he's either clueless, deluded, or, uh, something worse? Make sure you report to the recruiter and your manager that the guy forged ahead with more too-personal details.
It's not a bad idea to exchange some correspondence regarding privacy policies in regards to personal information about employees and consultants. Close-out policies for the company for whom you consulted, too, including IT, since you were using their email server, and Finance, if they paid or reimbursed you directly.
It's so easy to get personal information if you know the culture and sound plausible. Any personal info about you that goes beyond strictly need-to-know -- emergency phone contacts, alternate phone numbers, etc -- get that stuff "updated" for now, for both companies. I say "updated" instead of purged because in my experience, it's easier. It's a routine request that's generally prioritized, it doesn't bring into play anyone's opinion as to whether you're being paranoid or a prima donna, and besides, some systems have fields that can't be left blank.
posted by desuetude at 1:00 PM on June 6, 2011
I just wanted to congratulate you on having what is often a difficult and awkward conversation, usually extra annoying, because you can't believe that you actually have to have it. It sounds like you handled it professionally. Those conversations that need to happen because one is in a "Am I not being clear or are you choosing not to understand" situation are always aggravating. Personally, as a manager, I think the cleaning your car, internet stalking goes beyond what would be acceptable even in a personal interaction situation between colleagues. Regardless of whether or not you said something to them - that's just waving all sorts of "all kinds of wrong/potential lawsuit/where is this staff person's good judgement" flags. It would have been helpful if the HR person/manager had at least acknowledged that - that they could see why this was concerning to you - it might have helped you get some more datapoints about what was appropriate and inappropriate by the company's standards, regardless of your own. Perhaps they did - I'm just saying they should have.
In any event. I also think you need to follow up with your manager/recruiter, and keep everyone in the loop that you are continuing to take every reasonable step to address this issue, and they are continuing to take steps to not choose to resolve it. Consider as well, emailing them if you want to keep a record.
posted by anitanita at 1:48 PM on June 6, 2011
In any event. I also think you need to follow up with your manager/recruiter, and keep everyone in the loop that you are continuing to take every reasonable step to address this issue, and they are continuing to take steps to not choose to resolve it. Consider as well, emailing them if you want to keep a record.
posted by anitanita at 1:48 PM on June 6, 2011
I don't know from corporate norms, but as an ethical matter, I think you really shouldn't have to directly confront someone who is sketching you out. It's the responsibility of those who run the workplace, i.e., management, to handle this kind of situation.
posted by paultopia at 2:47 PM on June 6, 2011
posted by paultopia at 2:47 PM on June 6, 2011
But on a human interaction level, a firm but gentle "gee, thanks but no thanks, let's keep it professional please" makes it clear from the outset that you were not OK with the behavior. When the first contact is from some manager, a nut will interpret that as a "us against them" moment and use it as an entreaty to other weird behavior.
Nobody should ever HAVE to deal with unwanted attention, but the best first step in any disagreement is to voice that disagreement to the offender, right away.
(Not that it is wrong to go to management first.)
posted by gjc at 5:47 PM on June 6, 2011
Nobody should ever HAVE to deal with unwanted attention, but the best first step in any disagreement is to voice that disagreement to the offender, right away.
(Not that it is wrong to go to management first.)
posted by gjc at 5:47 PM on June 6, 2011
Then he proceeded to tell me that he'd discovered my partner's last name and his website, and asked a question about it! Argh.
Not to scare you, but he's probably going to know why he was fired, and he knows a hell of a lot about you. You might want to take some precautions.
posted by spaltavian at 8:25 PM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not to scare you, but he's probably going to know why he was fired, and he knows a hell of a lot about you. You might want to take some precautions.
posted by spaltavian at 8:25 PM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm also gonna recommend being careful too-- not in an interfering with your life kind of way. Just be wary.
And maybe consider blocking him on facebook before he can look you up.
posted by NoraReed at 12:35 AM on June 7, 2011
And maybe consider blocking him on facebook before he can look you up.
posted by NoraReed at 12:35 AM on June 7, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xingcat at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2011