Anyone recognize the book this is from?

May 16, 2005 10:39 AM

"When Irish eyes are smiling... you've probably been ripped off" was a repeated refrain in a science fiction novel about virtual reality and perception. It's been at least six years since publication since it was over that long ago I read it.

The other notable thing I remember from it was some sort of goofy figurine which shows up repeatedly to jog the protagonist's memory. Any of this ring a bell for anyone? My Google-fu has failed me and Amazon's search inside the book yields no hits.

posted by phearlez to Writing & Language (26 answers total)

wow, that's racist as hell. Glad you remembered it.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 11:30 AM on May 16, 2005

James Hogan, Realtime Interrupt.

(And it's said by an Irish character, so it's meant in jest.)
posted by kindall at 11:53 AM on May 16, 2005

kindall - thanks. I didn't want to sidetrack my quest for an answer with an extended debate on racism but my exact thoughts were (a) I think it's a pretty prima facia joke and (2) perhaps it makes me insensitive or jaded but it falls short of "racist as hell" for me.
posted by phearlez at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2005

The goofy figurine, by the way, is a leprechaun.
posted by kindall at 12:10 PM on May 16, 2005

A similar expression, "When Irish eyes are smiling, watch your step", is attributed to Gerald Kersh. The author wrote a few sci-fi stories, but only had one complete novel in that gerne: The Great Wash/Secret Masters.
posted by Smart Dalek at 12:22 PM on May 16, 2005

lets switch that around and use African Americans in the place of irish. See what kind of response you get.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 12:23 PM on May 16, 2005

lets switch that around and use African Americans in the place of irish

It shouldn't be hard to find examples in literature of black writers putting similar sentiments into the mouths of their black characters.
posted by kindall at 12:25 PM on May 16, 2005

Livewire: stop being an asshead, eh? The line was quoted as being said by fictional characters in a work of fiction. Shall we pull a few other fictional jibes out of fictional works for you to get idiotic about? You do understand the concept of fiction, right?
posted by Decani at 12:32 PM on May 16, 2005

Books would be pretty boring if all the characters were super goodie goodie nice...
posted by shepd at 12:53 PM on May 16, 2005

Livewire: stop being an asshead, eh? The line was quoted as being said by fictional characters in a work of fiction. Shall we pull a few other fictional jibes out of fictional works for you to get idiotic about? You do understand the concept of fiction, right?

Yes, I understand it's racist fiction. Why don't you quit being the asshead? It's also highly offensive.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 12:54 PM on May 16, 2005

Yes, I understand it's racist fiction. Why don't you quit being the asshead? It's also highly offensive.

One question: Have you read the book in question?
posted by kindall at 12:59 PM on May 16, 2005

Gertrude Stein once wrote "Rose is a rose is a rose."

Lets switch that around and use African Americans in the place of rose. OMG RACIST!!11one
posted by lotsofno at 1:44 PM on May 16, 2005

Poor LG was no doubt horribly scarred by his mistreatment as an Irish immigrant to the US over a hundred years ago, sufficiently so that he's forgotten that the irish are not, in fact, a race.

However, I have learned my lesson and henceforth will not be amused by comments about blondes being dumb, men being sex fiends, jews being cheap, the irish being drunks, italians being lotharios, brits being uptight, germans being conquer-happy, russians being drunks, the chinese liking rice, blacks liking fried chicken, redheads being saucy, people with big feet having big penises (unless they are women in which case the joke is they HAVE a penis which may or may not be big), black people having big penises, asians having small penises, Ann Colter having A penis, IT professionals being socially inept, lawyers lacking integrity, politicians being corrupt, doctors being arrogant, supermodels being shallow, actors being self-absorbed, mexicans eating beans, canadians saying 'eh?', conservatives chopping down forests, liberals saving whales, gay people decorating, southerners putting cars on blocks, northerners wearing cordoroy, californians being nudists, floridians being old, floridians being unable to vote, floridians, new yorkers being rude, midwesterners being nice, californians being hippies and pacific northwesterners being over-caffinated.

I will, however, laugh at jokes about people from Finland.
posted by phearlez at 1:47 PM on May 16, 2005

good god, livewire. did you just do racial studies 101? deep breaths. relax. try to work out the difference between asking about something and saying it's a good thing.

and anyway, haven't we had various posts about the N-word?

what does the bold in phearlez's post signify?
posted by andrew cooke at 2:18 PM on May 16, 2005

it's offensive; anyway you want to justify it. It's just disgusting. The more we use negative stereotypes the more acceptable they become. I do have a problem with it and your little rant above proves my point even further that you are a bigot. Merry Christmas.

mistreatment as an Irish immigrant to the US over a hundred years ago,/i>

No, I am pissed that I had to read that negative crap you posted. Obviously 100 years changes nothing if you feel free to post crap like that; and feel no shame over it.


It would have been nice to see "I am looking for this article whereas this prejudiced phrase was used" "my apologies; it's not my intent to offend I just need the article name"

Instead you callously use this ugly phrase with no regard for whom it may insult.

Now lets go tell some more Irish drunk jokes! Yeah!

You are a primate.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 2:51 PM on May 16, 2005

OOK OOK AAK! (What's the emoticon for throwing poop?)
posted by phearlez at 3:07 PM on May 16, 2005

AC - well no doubt LC wasn't as offended by discussion of offensive words about blacks, it's not like they're a real disadvantaged class the way the irish are.

Of course this all overlooks the fact that this supposed offensive stereotype isn't actually a stereotype - outside of Hogan's novel I have never once seen any joke or comment about the irish being dishonest. But why let little things like facts impede a good self-righteous fit?

The bold was just me monkeying (I sure hope no chimps are reading this and offended) around with emphasis, didn't really work the way I liked - shoulda left it off.
posted by phearlez at 3:15 PM on May 16, 2005

it's offensive; anyway you want to justify it. It's just disgusting.

This would be true if not for the minor detail that it is not true.
posted by kindall at 3:22 PM on May 16, 2005

Livewire Confusion: Do you understand what AskMeFi is for? Helpful hint: it's not for showing off your exquisite moral sensitivity. Go read the manual and give the rest of us a break.
posted by languagehat at 6:03 PM on May 16, 2005

jesus fuck off livewire. You obviously have no sense of what askme is for.
posted by puke & cry at 6:25 PM on May 16, 2005

Livewire, get a grip. You are being an idiot. Great literature is full of vile utterances and vile characters. The portrayal of these things does not, for Christ's sake, make the work vile in itself. That you should need to have this shatteringly obvious fact so repeatedly explained to you ought to embarrass the very soul out of you. Grow up.
posted by Decani at 6:33 PM on May 16, 2005

This was, I might repeat, not even vile or racist. The genesis of the line is in a visit that the book's protagonist, Joe Corrigan, makes to MIT's Marvin Minksy. Minsky has just returned from a combination business/pleasure trip to Ireland (Corrigan's native country) and was grumbling about how expensive his trip was. "Down there," says Minsky, "if you're an American and don't know the price of anything, you're fair game." Another character, Evelyn, who happens to be there, says "You mean it isn't true what they say? 'When Irish eyes are smiling...'" Minksy finishes it with "You've probably been ripped off." Corrigan finds it funny. Later he repeats it to some friends in a pub in Ireland. When it becomes apparent (spoiler) that he is trapped in a simulation and has had memory erasure that caused him to forget his password for the back-door he programmed into the system, the challenge-response turns out to be "When Irish eyes are smiling" / "You've probably been ripped off." Something that only he would know.

Yes, I went and got my copy of the book and dug all this stuff up.

Marvin Minsky is of course a real person and I would imagine that he and Hogan are friends, and that he did in fact make such a remark to Hogan, who lives in Ireland, and Hogan wrote it into his book.

But yeah. Very offensive and disgusting. *rolls eyes*
posted by kindall at 10:01 PM on May 16, 2005

L Confusion, Know why God created whiskey? So the Irish wouldn't rule the world. Try some.
posted by Carbolic at 12:03 AM on May 17, 2005

kindall: I agree with you. It was neither vile nor racist. I was just trying to make Livewire see that even if quotes from a work of fiction are vile and racist when taken out of context and alone, that does not mean the book itself is vile and racist, or that the author is vile and racist. Livewire was being stupid to wade in here ascribing racism to a simple, short extract from a work of fiction. I suspected he needed a more extreme illustration in order for him to get the point.
posted by Decani at 6:33 AM on May 17, 2005

I've read Hogan, not the novel in question, but I don't sense he's a racist. From his book The Multiplex Man I suspect he's a libertarian that's not too fond of the green party. His Giant series is probably his best work (though the first half of the first book might be a little slow for some readers).
posted by john at 6:36 AM on May 17, 2005

I just checked the wikipedia entry for Hogan and was surprised by a few things in there. I knew about the anarchist/libertarian leanings, but catastrophism, Intelligent design, and thinking HIV doesn't cause AIDS, um...OK.

BTW, according to his bio, he's Irish/German, if that makes any difference.
posted by john at 8:25 AM on May 17, 2005