Shimano derailleur is derailing me all right...
May 23, 2011 8:25 AM Subscribe
Help a cycling newbie's bike love her as much as she loves it! I think I have a problem with my Shimano derailleur.
I am the semi-proud owner of a new, cheap but fun Schwinn Solitaire. However, unfortunately, I had to buy it pre-assembled by a big box store in order to get the price I wanted on it, and whoever put it together was clearly blindfolded. I've managed to fix almost everything, but there's two nagging problems left.
The bike is 21 speeds, the usual setup of 3 'rear' gears and 7 'front' ones (sorry, I'm not entirely sure of my terminology here.) When I'm using on the 7-speed front gear, the bike will shift smoothly into a higher gear; but when I down-shift, it takes about 30-45 seconds for it to finally drop into a lower gear and the entire bicycle shudders and sort of kicks when it does.
Also, the indexing on the rear gears seems to be off, to the point where gear 2 on the handlebar gear shifter is actually gear 3 on the rear gears, gear 3 is gear 1, etc. Shifting here is unreliable at best-- sometimes this gear chain too will drop into gear with a clunk and a shudder and sometimes it doesn't move at all.
I've looked over the cables and the chain pretty carefully and at this point I'm assuming it's my derailleur. The Internet is full of useful pictures and lots of technical jargon, but what I really want to know is this: 1.) Are these two problems related or separate? 2.) What's actually going on? 3.) Can I fix them at home (I have a fairly extensive collection of tools and some mechanical know-how, but little experience with bikes)? Or is this beyond the realm of my garage and better suited for my local bike shop?
Thanks for the help!
I am the semi-proud owner of a new, cheap but fun Schwinn Solitaire. However, unfortunately, I had to buy it pre-assembled by a big box store in order to get the price I wanted on it, and whoever put it together was clearly blindfolded. I've managed to fix almost everything, but there's two nagging problems left.
The bike is 21 speeds, the usual setup of 3 'rear' gears and 7 'front' ones (sorry, I'm not entirely sure of my terminology here.) When I'm using on the 7-speed front gear, the bike will shift smoothly into a higher gear; but when I down-shift, it takes about 30-45 seconds for it to finally drop into a lower gear and the entire bicycle shudders and sort of kicks when it does.
Also, the indexing on the rear gears seems to be off, to the point where gear 2 on the handlebar gear shifter is actually gear 3 on the rear gears, gear 3 is gear 1, etc. Shifting here is unreliable at best-- sometimes this gear chain too will drop into gear with a clunk and a shudder and sometimes it doesn't move at all.
I've looked over the cables and the chain pretty carefully and at this point I'm assuming it's my derailleur. The Internet is full of useful pictures and lots of technical jargon, but what I really want to know is this: 1.) Are these two problems related or separate? 2.) What's actually going on? 3.) Can I fix them at home (I have a fairly extensive collection of tools and some mechanical know-how, but little experience with bikes)? Or is this beyond the realm of my garage and better suited for my local bike shop?
Thanks for the help!
They're related, and they have to deal with cable tension going to the dérailleur. I would start by loosening the bolt that clamps the cable at the dérailleur, which will move it to the starting gear, and then fiddling with the H/L screws to make sure it's aligned. Then tighten the bolt and start adjusting the tension with the barrel adjusters.
There's a tutorial on this at bicycletutor.com. Also, this is a 10 minute job at your local bike shop. They won't care that the bike wasn't purchased from them.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:39 AM on May 23, 2011
There's a tutorial on this at bicycletutor.com. Also, this is a 10 minute job at your local bike shop. They won't care that the bike wasn't purchased from them.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:39 AM on May 23, 2011
Normal problems, but fiddly and tedious to fix. Take it to your LBS. Even bikes set up by experienced mechanics at LBSs need be taken in for a check after ~100 miles because of cable stretch and problems that only become apparent when the bike is ridden while the frame is flexing (e.g. when climbing). This first check is usually built into the price when you buy from an LBS, but most offer a standard gears/cables/brakes service for a few tens of dollars/euros/pounds.
posted by caek at 8:58 AM on May 23, 2011
posted by caek at 8:58 AM on May 23, 2011
Best answer: A few things:
In order to shift quickly and smoothly, a bicycle must:
1. Be pedaled fairly quickly
2. Have a well-adjusted derailleur
3. Have a well-lubricated chain, and
4. Having smooth and well lubricated cable routing (no kinks or tight bends in the cable housing).
Number 2 is the most likely culprit. If your bike was assembled by somebody who wasn't entirely sure what they were doing, they could have clamped the cable to the derailleur incorrectly (which would mess up the geometry of X-mm of cable pull results in X-mm of derailleur movement). If you bought this from a department store instead of a bike shop, that would be my best guess.
Park Tools has a website full of repair help. The long and short of it is, you shift the rear shifter until it's supposed to be in the smallest cog. You loosen the cable. You pull it as tight as it can go, and then you clamp the cable to the derailleur. Then, you shift once and if it doesn't shift into the second smallest cog, you turn the "barrel adjuster" so that it unscrews a little bit. This tightens the cable a bit more. Repeat until you have smooth shifting.
But, for the most part, yes - fiddly and tedious to fix, and frustrating if you don't know what you're doing.
posted by entropone at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2011
In order to shift quickly and smoothly, a bicycle must:
1. Be pedaled fairly quickly
2. Have a well-adjusted derailleur
3. Have a well-lubricated chain, and
4. Having smooth and well lubricated cable routing (no kinks or tight bends in the cable housing).
Number 2 is the most likely culprit. If your bike was assembled by somebody who wasn't entirely sure what they were doing, they could have clamped the cable to the derailleur incorrectly (which would mess up the geometry of X-mm of cable pull results in X-mm of derailleur movement). If you bought this from a department store instead of a bike shop, that would be my best guess.
Park Tools has a website full of repair help. The long and short of it is, you shift the rear shifter until it's supposed to be in the smallest cog. You loosen the cable. You pull it as tight as it can go, and then you clamp the cable to the derailleur. Then, you shift once and if it doesn't shift into the second smallest cog, you turn the "barrel adjuster" so that it unscrews a little bit. This tightens the cable a bit more. Repeat until you have smooth shifting.
But, for the most part, yes - fiddly and tedious to fix, and frustrating if you don't know what you're doing.
posted by entropone at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2011
Response by poster: You are all wonderfully reassuring. I think I am going to fiddle with the barrel adjusters myself to see if I can fix it for experience, and then take it to a LBS for validation and the once-over to look for other problems. Thank you very much, cycling MeFites!
posted by WidgetAlley at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2011
posted by WidgetAlley at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2011
Best answer: First, I think you are mixing up 'front' and 'rear', though it's not necessarily important. Also, for what it's worth, 'front' and 'rear' are indeed the correct terminology.
I think it would be helpful to understand exactly what exactly your derailleurs are doing. Obviously they are there to move your chain from one gear to the next, but how they do that is important. Hopefully these descriptions aren't too basic for you.
First, the front derailleur only does one thing - it moves side to side (probably also a little bit up-and-down at the same time). As it does this, it applies a little pressure to the side of the chain, which has to jump to the next gear to relieve the internal tension (chains don't like to bend sideways). The front derailleur has these adjustments:
* Mounting position (height/angle)
* Limits (so you don't shift your chain too far in our out and cause it to fall off)
* Shifting tension
Your problem sounds like it's probably with the shifting tension, which you can adjust by using the barrel adjuster (fine adjustments) or un-clamping the shift cable and tightening/loosening it (gross adjustments).
The rear derailleur looks more complicated because it does two things. It moves the chain side to side (to change gears) and also maintains chain tension by soaking up extra chain when you are using smaller gears (both in front and in back). Again there are several adjustments you can make (angle, limits, tension) and again I think your problem is likely just the tension. This is fortunately the easiest to fix - try playing with the barrel adjusters but work small, like in quarter turns.
Knowing this, you can start to use some intuition when making adjustments...if your chain slips down from bigger to smaller gears, you probably need more tension (turn barrel CCW), etc.
If it's anything more than the tension, I would go to a shop to get things adjusted. Even adjusting the tension can be tedious, annoying, and frustrating, as others have mentioned. I would also consider going to a bike co-op/community workspace if you can find one. If you go in willing to learn and not just looking for a free mechanic, they will help and teach you! For tutorials, I'll also recommend YouTube videos to go along with the ParkTool website.
posted by aganders3 at 9:16 AM on May 23, 2011
I think it would be helpful to understand exactly what exactly your derailleurs are doing. Obviously they are there to move your chain from one gear to the next, but how they do that is important. Hopefully these descriptions aren't too basic for you.
First, the front derailleur only does one thing - it moves side to side (probably also a little bit up-and-down at the same time). As it does this, it applies a little pressure to the side of the chain, which has to jump to the next gear to relieve the internal tension (chains don't like to bend sideways). The front derailleur has these adjustments:
* Mounting position (height/angle)
* Limits (so you don't shift your chain too far in our out and cause it to fall off)
* Shifting tension
Your problem sounds like it's probably with the shifting tension, which you can adjust by using the barrel adjuster (fine adjustments) or un-clamping the shift cable and tightening/loosening it (gross adjustments).
The rear derailleur looks more complicated because it does two things. It moves the chain side to side (to change gears) and also maintains chain tension by soaking up extra chain when you are using smaller gears (both in front and in back). Again there are several adjustments you can make (angle, limits, tension) and again I think your problem is likely just the tension. This is fortunately the easiest to fix - try playing with the barrel adjusters but work small, like in quarter turns.
Knowing this, you can start to use some intuition when making adjustments...if your chain slips down from bigger to smaller gears, you probably need more tension (turn barrel CCW), etc.
If it's anything more than the tension, I would go to a shop to get things adjusted. Even adjusting the tension can be tedious, annoying, and frustrating, as others have mentioned. I would also consider going to a bike co-op/community workspace if you can find one. If you go in willing to learn and not just looking for a free mechanic, they will help and teach you! For tutorials, I'll also recommend YouTube videos to go along with the ParkTool website.
posted by aganders3 at 9:16 AM on May 23, 2011
Getting a LBS to dial your shifting in is cheap for the frustration it can cause to the uninitiated. Barrel adjusters are best used to fine-tune shifting (or braking), not so much to "fix" it. Support your LBS but have them talk you through it - if they're not busy - so you understand what's been done!
posted by kcm at 10:36 AM on May 23, 2011
posted by kcm at 10:36 AM on May 23, 2011
An alternative to your LBS: see if you have a local bike collective that will walk you through/teach you how to fix it. You'll pay them a small fee (basically what you think it was worth), but you'll also have learned how to do it for yourself next time.
If you have no collective, the videos at Bicycle Tutor (complete with full text transcript) are very helpful.
1. How to adjust your rear derailleur
(for future reference) 5. How to adjust your front derailleur
posted by maudlin at 11:25 AM on May 23, 2011
If you have no collective, the videos at Bicycle Tutor (complete with full text transcript) are very helpful.
1. How to adjust your rear derailleur
(for future reference) 5. How to adjust your front derailleur
posted by maudlin at 11:25 AM on May 23, 2011
The videos at Bicycle Tutor is now behind a pay wall. You have received some good advice here; if you can't make it work, get thee to your local bike coop.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 7:15 PM on May 23, 2011
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 7:15 PM on May 23, 2011
Pay wall now? Wow. That's pretty recent (I think). Sorry about that!
posted by maudlin at 7:26 PM on May 23, 2011
posted by maudlin at 7:26 PM on May 23, 2011
Yeah, it's been that way for about two weeks now. Long-term users keep linking to it in forums, without clicking through to the actual video. Then the newbie comes back, and complains that they want $6 to use the service for a month. This business-model will surely fail quickly. He needs to run a short 15 second commercial at the beginning of the videos, or some other alternative.
I'm just surprised that no one has linked WigetAlley to the Holy Grail of cycling info yet.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 8:15 PM on May 24, 2011
I'm just surprised that no one has linked WigetAlley to the Holy Grail of cycling info yet.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 8:15 PM on May 24, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks everyone! You were all right, it was actually the cable tension combined with the height of the front derailleur cage. I managed to fix it myself (though it was tedious fiddly trial-and-error, so yay audiobooks!) and am taking to Ye Olde Local Bike Shoppe to get it tuned-up later this week.
For everyone suggesting a bike coop, I appreciate the idea, but Clarksville, TN is emphatically not the sort of place that has a bike co-op; but I will certainly keep in mind if I'm ever in Memphis (sadly, that seems to be nearest) with my bike.
Happy (bike) trails!
posted by WidgetAlley at 4:22 PM on May 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
For everyone suggesting a bike coop, I appreciate the idea, but Clarksville, TN is emphatically not the sort of place that has a bike co-op; but I will certainly keep in mind if I'm ever in Memphis (sadly, that seems to be nearest) with my bike.
Happy (bike) trails!
posted by WidgetAlley at 4:22 PM on May 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
« Older Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says... | Weight and fat gain coming off Mercilon - need... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
You can try to fix it yourself using the barrel adjusters; there's a great guide on how to do this on the Park Tool website (to which I can't link directly right now because it's currently not loading for me), and in general Park Tool is a great resource. On the other hand, it would probably be worthwhile to take it to a real shop for a once-over, because who knows if there's actually something wrong (unlikely but possible) or if the big box made a grievous error in assembly.
posted by The Michael The at 8:39 AM on May 23, 2011