Responding to a friend's comment.
May 14, 2011 10:09 AM Subscribe
Was I too harsh in response to a friend's comment?
One of my very good friends saw a picture of my boyfriend and said, "I don't want to sound like my mother, but has he gained weight recently, cause he looks chunkier now?" I was pretty shocked that she made that comment. I responded to her saying, "Wow, don't be like your mom. It's incredibly rude to comment on another person's weight, even to your friend."
My SO has actually gained some weight, but it's not a big deal to me at all and I've never mentioned anything about it to my friend to make her feel she could bring something like that up with me. She also has long had issues with her weight, going through crash diets and verbally abusing herself for the way she think she looks. This thing is, I could never imagine commenting on anyone's weight, moreover someone close to a friend.
I'm curious if she really was out of line to say something like that. Did I overreact to this in my response to her? Was there a better way I could have dealt with this?
One of my very good friends saw a picture of my boyfriend and said, "I don't want to sound like my mother, but has he gained weight recently, cause he looks chunkier now?" I was pretty shocked that she made that comment. I responded to her saying, "Wow, don't be like your mom. It's incredibly rude to comment on another person's weight, even to your friend."
My SO has actually gained some weight, but it's not a big deal to me at all and I've never mentioned anything about it to my friend to make her feel she could bring something like that up with me. She also has long had issues with her weight, going through crash diets and verbally abusing herself for the way she think she looks. This thing is, I could never imagine commenting on anyone's weight, moreover someone close to a friend.
I'm curious if she really was out of line to say something like that. Did I overreact to this in my response to her? Was there a better way I could have dealt with this?
I am an outspoken, occasionally obnoxious Jersey girl and I think the comment was rude. I think your reaction was fine.
posted by amro at 10:13 AM on May 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by amro at 10:13 AM on May 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Healthy boundaries are good, and sometimes you have to tell people to back off. However, at the same time as you tried to set a boundary, you talked trash about her mom, which was pretty hypocritical. I wouldn't be surprised if her feelings were hurt.
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:14 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:14 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nope, your response sounds ok to me. Though I probably would have said, "ooh, classy," and left it at that.
posted by phunniemee at 10:14 AM on May 14, 2011
posted by phunniemee at 10:14 AM on May 14, 2011
She sounds gauche, and exactly like me. If she's that "forthright" she would expect you to be the same. You responded perfectly and maybe next time she'll shut her mouth before she says something touchy.
But as I said, that is EXACTLY like something I would say and not mean any harm from.
posted by taff at 10:15 AM on May 14, 2011
But as I said, that is EXACTLY like something I would say and not mean any harm from.
posted by taff at 10:15 AM on May 14, 2011
How out of line she was depends on your relationship and how you guys feel about boundaries. But your response was fine -- not too harsh or anything to feel bad about.
posted by J. Wilson at 10:21 AM on May 14, 2011
posted by J. Wilson at 10:21 AM on May 14, 2011
I don't think you were overly harsh or out of line at all. Your friend, on the other hand, was (out of line, that is). Unless you are trash-talking with girlfriends about someone else who is not a close friend of your group or a doctor assessing a patient it is never socially acceptable to comment on someone's weight gain. It is tacky and rude. Something like a weight gain is patently obvious to the observer, so what is the point of actually mentioning it other than to get some sort of subtle "dig" (whether consciously or not) in?
posted by Oriole Adams at 10:27 AM on May 14, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Oriole Adams at 10:27 AM on May 14, 2011 [4 favorites]
"I" messages: "I think that sounds...." and "I think it's rude...." would have made it a bit less harsh.
posted by brujita at 10:27 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by brujita at 10:27 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thing is, I could never imagine commenting on anyone's weight, moreover someone close to a friend.
I've gossiped with close friends or my husband about people's weight changes. While I understand that this gossip is pretty shallow and stupid, I think it's part of a larger culture of talking about weight and bodies in our society, particularly between women. She was probably assuming that you--a woman, familiar with her own struggles with weight--would be okay with it being part of the general conversation (were I in your position, my answer probably would have been, "Yeah *shrug* but he's adorable no matter what"; it's such a non-thing to me that I wouldn't even consider being offended).
However, I also see how these kinds of conversations can be unhealthy or petty--in part because it's part of a larger culture of talking about weight and bodies in our society. I might find your response a little over the top (if you're not comfortable talking about it, best to just say that rather than phrasing it as behavioral policing), but otherwise fine. It's okay to take some subjects off the table.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:33 AM on May 14, 2011 [7 favorites]
I've gossiped with close friends or my husband about people's weight changes. While I understand that this gossip is pretty shallow and stupid, I think it's part of a larger culture of talking about weight and bodies in our society, particularly between women. She was probably assuming that you--a woman, familiar with her own struggles with weight--would be okay with it being part of the general conversation (were I in your position, my answer probably would have been, "Yeah *shrug* but he's adorable no matter what"; it's such a non-thing to me that I wouldn't even consider being offended).
However, I also see how these kinds of conversations can be unhealthy or petty--in part because it's part of a larger culture of talking about weight and bodies in our society. I might find your response a little over the top (if you're not comfortable talking about it, best to just say that rather than phrasing it as behavioral policing), but otherwise fine. It's okay to take some subjects off the table.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:33 AM on May 14, 2011 [7 favorites]
Commenting on other people's weight is rude. Commenting on other people's manners is also rude.
So, hey, you're even now.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:33 AM on May 14, 2011 [9 favorites]
So, hey, you're even now.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:33 AM on May 14, 2011 [9 favorites]
I think most people lie on their deathbeds wishing they had been nicer to other people.
That said, I think people are way too polite with people who are over the line. It's totally OK to call a spade a spade when someone's being a horse's ass.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:35 AM on May 14, 2011 [4 favorites]
That said, I think people are way too polite with people who are over the line. It's totally OK to call a spade a spade when someone's being a horse's ass.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:35 AM on May 14, 2011 [4 favorites]
She's your "very good friend." Your BF has put on weight. Asking about that doesn't seem to need a smart crack concerning her mom. I took the fact that she mentioned her mom in that fashion indicates she realizes it's a somewhat gray area, boundary wise. She was trying to indirectly acknowledge that, while still satisfying her curiosity.
Of course, all this depends on the relationship between the two of you, but with very good friends asking that question shouldn't be an issue, IMO.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:45 AM on May 14, 2011 [14 favorites]
Of course, all this depends on the relationship between the two of you, but with very good friends asking that question shouldn't be an issue, IMO.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:45 AM on May 14, 2011 [14 favorites]
I love your comment and am impressed you were able to say it on the spot...I always think of those perfect comments about 15 minutes after the event is over. Your friend was rude AND passive-aggressive by blaming her comment on how her mother would act. You were totally in the right to call her out on it and I would also expect an apology from your friend.
On a similar note, I have a friend that ALWAYS comments on how rude it is to add salt to my food when we're at another friends house for dinner and they've cooked. She says this in front of everyone and I find it very embarrassing but am always kind of flummoxed on how to respond without looking defensive. Your friends comment about your boyfriends weight would have a similar effect on me.
posted by victoriab at 10:45 AM on May 14, 2011
On a similar note, I have a friend that ALWAYS comments on how rude it is to add salt to my food when we're at another friends house for dinner and they've cooked. She says this in front of everyone and I find it very embarrassing but am always kind of flummoxed on how to respond without looking defensive. Your friends comment about your boyfriends weight would have a similar effect on me.
posted by victoriab at 10:45 AM on May 14, 2011
jacquilynne: "Commenting on other people's weight is rude. Commenting on other people's manners is also rude.
So, hey, you're even now."
I don't think the two behaviors in the situation described are equivalent AT ALL. Yes, it's best not to comment on peoples manners, but you can certainly comment on a persons manners when they've made a snide comment about your boyfriend's weight.
Manners are designed to make people feel comfortable in a variety of situations, not to protect people who want to say rude and cruel things.
posted by victoriab at 10:53 AM on May 14, 2011 [8 favorites]
So, hey, you're even now."
I don't think the two behaviors in the situation described are equivalent AT ALL. Yes, it's best not to comment on peoples manners, but you can certainly comment on a persons manners when they've made a snide comment about your boyfriend's weight.
Manners are designed to make people feel comfortable in a variety of situations, not to protect people who want to say rude and cruel things.
posted by victoriab at 10:53 AM on May 14, 2011 [8 favorites]
I think your friend was way out of line, and your response was a bit harsh, although I understand why you responded as you did. As for the comment about her mother, she opened that door.
@victoriab, your friend is wrong, wrong, wrong. First, she's extremely rude to make a comment like that in front of other people and second, it's incorrect to salt your food only if you haven't yet tasted it. Otherwise, why would there be salt on the table?
posted by Dolley at 10:54 AM on May 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
@victoriab, your friend is wrong, wrong, wrong. First, she's extremely rude to make a comment like that in front of other people and second, it's incorrect to salt your food only if you haven't yet tasted it. Otherwise, why would there be salt on the table?
posted by Dolley at 10:54 AM on May 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
Correcting another person's manners (unless they've asked for feedback) is the etiquette equivalent of triple murder with a chainsaw.
The way to object to an outrageous comment like hers would be "now why would you say something like that to me?" or "what?" or "[stunned silence]"
You have each insulted not only one another, but +1 person not present. If your response hadn't involved criticizing both her manners and her mom's, I'd say this was a rudeness draw. As it is, you have defeated your friend in two straight punches and she will now have to think of something even nastier to take back her title.
posted by tel3path at 10:54 AM on May 14, 2011
The way to object to an outrageous comment like hers would be "now why would you say something like that to me?" or "what?" or "[stunned silence]"
You have each insulted not only one another, but +1 person not present. If your response hadn't involved criticizing both her manners and her mom's, I'd say this was a rudeness draw. As it is, you have defeated your friend in two straight punches and she will now have to think of something even nastier to take back her title.
posted by tel3path at 10:54 AM on May 14, 2011
That's a hard question to answer because something is out of line really only when the other person says it may be, not because it is objectively. A lot of people would be offended being told what you told your friend, and a lot wouldn't.
Another question may be "should you have said it", and I think that's easier to answer. You sometimes should say stuff to people that creates conflict with that person (ie, out of line). Just because they take it badly, in other words, doesn't mean you shouldn't say it. And in this case, I think if your friend had posted "I'm thinking about telling my friend her boyfriend is overweight. Is that out of line?" then she would have gotten a ton of posts saying "Absolutely that is out of line. Don't say it!"
So, one thing to think about is that you (using the Johari Window), your friend didn't know it was inappropriate to say someone is overweight. It has the potential to harm that person both directly and indirectly by harming you, as it is potentially hurtful especially if said in a cavelier kind of indifference. You saw this, but she did not see this about herself, which in the Johari Window would be the top right quadrant of "blindness". You gave feedback to her, and you seemed to do it in a careful way.
But I do think that these things often create conflict, and insofar as your goal is avoid conflict at all costs, it's easy to see why you might think that this is not the right thing to say. But I think the goal is to be a good friend to this person, which sometimes means giving them feedback. The next step is to keep loving them, and to work through this. Good luck with that; it's easier said than done.
posted by scunning at 10:54 AM on May 14, 2011
Another question may be "should you have said it", and I think that's easier to answer. You sometimes should say stuff to people that creates conflict with that person (ie, out of line). Just because they take it badly, in other words, doesn't mean you shouldn't say it. And in this case, I think if your friend had posted "I'm thinking about telling my friend her boyfriend is overweight. Is that out of line?" then she would have gotten a ton of posts saying "Absolutely that is out of line. Don't say it!"
So, one thing to think about is that you (using the Johari Window), your friend didn't know it was inappropriate to say someone is overweight. It has the potential to harm that person both directly and indirectly by harming you, as it is potentially hurtful especially if said in a cavelier kind of indifference. You saw this, but she did not see this about herself, which in the Johari Window would be the top right quadrant of "blindness". You gave feedback to her, and you seemed to do it in a careful way.
But I do think that these things often create conflict, and insofar as your goal is avoid conflict at all costs, it's easy to see why you might think that this is not the right thing to say. But I think the goal is to be a good friend to this person, which sometimes means giving them feedback. The next step is to keep loving them, and to work through this. Good luck with that; it's easier said than done.
posted by scunning at 10:54 AM on May 14, 2011
"It's incredibly rude" makes it sound like you know the Absolute Truth, whereas Brandon Blatcher above shows that not everyone agrees it's incredibly rude. That makes your comment strike me as inaccurate, and somewhat presumptuous or autocratic. I'm pretty sensitive to third-person omniscient when discussing manners and preferences.
posted by salvia at 11:03 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 11:03 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
A few questions for ya:
You write "My SO has actually gained some weight, but it's not a big deal to me at all ." Yet you're bothered by your friend's comment. If it's not a big deal to you, why would that comment bother you? Maybe you recognize that your friend has issues with weight and you're taking the comment as her being negative about your boyfriend? Or maybe her comment echoes something you've been thinking about but haven't felt comfortable having those thoughts or expressing them to your boyfriend? Food for thought perhaps.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:21 AM on May 14, 2011 [11 favorites]
You write "My SO has actually gained some weight, but it's not a big deal to me at all ." Yet you're bothered by your friend's comment. If it's not a big deal to you, why would that comment bother you? Maybe you recognize that your friend has issues with weight and you're taking the comment as her being negative about your boyfriend? Or maybe her comment echoes something you've been thinking about but haven't felt comfortable having those thoughts or expressing them to your boyfriend? Food for thought perhaps.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:21 AM on May 14, 2011 [11 favorites]
It seems to me that the weight issue does bother you, because otherwise, her question (without any background info on her) is not so terrible. She was making an observation and asked the question.
Imagine replacing her question with "hey, did your boyfriend get a haircut recently? I remember his hair being longer." This question probably wouldn't bother you, but the fact that she's commenting on weight gain, which unfortunately, many people in our society equate with being gross, unworthy, less than, or somehow flawed, seemed to tick you off.
That being said, it is impolite to comment on someone's weight if the intent is that the person is somehow any less spectacular than they previously were at a lesser weight. Otherwise, it's just an observation.
posted by Sal and Richard at 11:36 AM on May 14, 2011 [4 favorites]
Imagine replacing her question with "hey, did your boyfriend get a haircut recently? I remember his hair being longer." This question probably wouldn't bother you, but the fact that she's commenting on weight gain, which unfortunately, many people in our society equate with being gross, unworthy, less than, or somehow flawed, seemed to tick you off.
That being said, it is impolite to comment on someone's weight if the intent is that the person is somehow any less spectacular than they previously were at a lesser weight. Otherwise, it's just an observation.
posted by Sal and Richard at 11:36 AM on May 14, 2011 [4 favorites]
Yet you're bothered by your friend's comment. If it's not a big deal to you, why would that comment bother you?
There is such a thing as sticking up for someone because they would be bothered by the comment if they heard it. Just because (real life example) I'm not ashamed of my brother for working a manual labor job, doesn't mean I'm going to let someone else make pejorative statements about it.
posted by phunniemee at 11:43 AM on May 14, 2011 [13 favorites]
There is such a thing as sticking up for someone because they would be bothered by the comment if they heard it. Just because (real life example) I'm not ashamed of my brother for working a manual labor job, doesn't mean I'm going to let someone else make pejorative statements about it.
posted by phunniemee at 11:43 AM on May 14, 2011 [13 favorites]
I think it's important to consider the context of this situation and the nature of the friendship (i.e. how intimate, how honest etc).
My take on this without knowing the context is that it sounds like your friend said something careless and I see nothing wrong with your response, particularly about referencing her mother. She brought up her mother, not you. Also, I think you show great insight by realizing that her comment may be more about her own weight issues. It's common for people who struggle with a particular issue to than spread it around to others and think everyone else has the same concerns.
If you are concerned that you hurt her feelings, I would ask her if you did. It could lead to an honest conversation about your response to her and then she may take responsibility for her original comment. It's a good opportunity to get on the same page about and further refine what is acceptable in your relationship.
posted by rglass at 11:48 AM on May 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
My take on this without knowing the context is that it sounds like your friend said something careless and I see nothing wrong with your response, particularly about referencing her mother. She brought up her mother, not you. Also, I think you show great insight by realizing that her comment may be more about her own weight issues. It's common for people who struggle with a particular issue to than spread it around to others and think everyone else has the same concerns.
If you are concerned that you hurt her feelings, I would ask her if you did. It could lead to an honest conversation about your response to her and then she may take responsibility for her original comment. It's a good opportunity to get on the same page about and further refine what is acceptable in your relationship.
posted by rglass at 11:48 AM on May 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
There is also such a thing as responding to the hostility in someone else's comment, regardless of whether the content of the remark is about something the hearer considers important.
posted by tel3path at 11:49 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by tel3path at 11:49 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks for all the answers. In response to the comments about me mentioning my friend's mother: My friend's mother is very emotionally abusive to her daughter, particularly regarding her weight. My friend knows this, I know this, and I have spent a lot of time trying to talk her down from something hurtful her mother has recently said to her. When my friend first gained weight, there was a long period where her mother wouldn't even speak to her, just start crying everytime they were in the same room together. So, I did find it quite shocking that my friend would knowingly act like her mother, when she knows how it feels to be on the other end.posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:54 AM on May 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Brandon Blatcher, the comment bothered me because I understand how hurtful it can be to have your physical appearance criticized (and so can my friend). This comment just happened to have been aimed at someone I love dearly and wouldn't want to have hurt.
Could you have handled it better? Probably, because it seems like it upset you. Perhaps a better response might have a been a huge smile and, "Yeah, you do sound like your mother!" (Smile smile smile!)
I also think it's pretty clear that your friend commented on this because weight is such a touhcy issue to her. Maybe it would have helped her to hear something like, "Yup, he's gained some weight, and I love him more than ever." Maybe in her mind, gaining weight = being unloveable?
Lots of armchair psychology here. She seems to know she's not supposed to say stuff like this.
But as long as you are both okay and can both realize this was a bit of sniping between friends, I think you'll be fine. If you're worried, next time you see her, just say something like, "Sorry if I was a bit bitchy about Fred's weight. I still think he's super hot, and I love him to pieces. And I love you too, so let's move on." Something like that.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:58 AM on May 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
I also think it's pretty clear that your friend commented on this because weight is such a touhcy issue to her. Maybe it would have helped her to hear something like, "Yup, he's gained some weight, and I love him more than ever." Maybe in her mind, gaining weight = being unloveable?
Lots of armchair psychology here. She seems to know she's not supposed to say stuff like this.
But as long as you are both okay and can both realize this was a bit of sniping between friends, I think you'll be fine. If you're worried, next time you see her, just say something like, "Sorry if I was a bit bitchy about Fred's weight. I still think he's super hot, and I love him to pieces. And I love you too, so let's move on." Something like that.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:58 AM on May 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
Tel3path is absolutely correct. Rudeness must never be countered with more rudeness. Adults may correct the manners of children, but no one else.
That you upped the ante and compared her to her abusive mother was flat out mean - appalling really.
And yes, it has not escaped my notice that in posting this I am correcting your manners and am too sliding down the awful slope of believing that bluntness and calling folks on thier shit is somehow a virture.
But hey, you asked.
posted by space_cookie at 12:07 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
That you upped the ante and compared her to her abusive mother was flat out mean - appalling really.
And yes, it has not escaped my notice that in posting this I am correcting your manners and am too sliding down the awful slope of believing that bluntness and calling folks on thier shit is somehow a virture.
But hey, you asked.
posted by space_cookie at 12:07 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Sorry if I was a bit bitchy about Fred's weight." - Actually, your friend should be the one to say this. The rest of the script is rightfully yours, assuming that's how you want to handle it.
posted by tel3path at 12:18 PM on May 14, 2011
posted by tel3path at 12:18 PM on May 14, 2011
I guess I'm in the minority here. You took her comment as offensive, but I'm betting it wasn't meant that way at all. I hear it more as "he gained weight, is he stressed out?" or "he gained weight, are you ok with that?". And then you responded by telling her she's like her mother. Totally unequal. Remember, she didn't say it to your boyfriend -- (it's never ok to say "YO MAN YOU GOT FAT I SEE") -- but to you, and without judgment. I understand that you heard it as hurtful, but if I were you I would check myself and apologize.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:38 PM on May 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:38 PM on May 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
I think you were completely in line. Your friend is perpetuating a sort of constant background-noise weight policing that is really toxic to have in the social atmosphere.
posted by threeants at 1:07 PM on May 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by threeants at 1:07 PM on May 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
If she's that "forthright" she would expect you to be the same.
This. If she wishes to dish it out, she can learn to take it.
posted by rodgerd at 1:18 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
This. If she wishes to dish it out, she can learn to take it.
posted by rodgerd at 1:18 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
To me, your harsh response kinda perpetuated the concept that gaining weight is a horrible horrible thing, so much so that even mentioning the possibility of it to another person would offend them.
Our bodies do fluxuate throughout our daily lives; a healthier response from you might have been a light acknowledgement of the change and a reassurance that it doesn't mean anything's changed in how much you care for your boyfriend. Since your friend has her own body issues going on, your response could've reflected acceptance and the capability to rationally talk about weight things, as opposed to her patterns of verbal self-abuse and the physical swings.
posted by redsparkler at 2:12 PM on May 14, 2011 [10 favorites]
Our bodies do fluxuate throughout our daily lives; a healthier response from you might have been a light acknowledgement of the change and a reassurance that it doesn't mean anything's changed in how much you care for your boyfriend. Since your friend has her own body issues going on, your response could've reflected acceptance and the capability to rationally talk about weight things, as opposed to her patterns of verbal self-abuse and the physical swings.
posted by redsparkler at 2:12 PM on May 14, 2011 [10 favorites]
Or: you were being baited, consciously or not, into outing yourself as a person with evil values about weight.
I had a frenemy who decided to step up his verbal abuse campaign. We had a conversation in which he strenuously tried to get me to agree that, if somebody insults you and you are hurt, it means that you have the same values as the person insulting you. Therefore, if someone calls you ugly or fat, and you 'allow' yourself to be hurt by it, it means your concept of human worth depends on beauty and thinness, therefore your own hurt feelings convict you of being a person with evil values.
I replied that actually, the hurt comes from the hostility, which is especially painful when emanating from a supposed friend.
If that's what's going on here, maybe it's time to reconsider the friendship in that light.
posted by tel3path at 2:49 PM on May 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
I had a frenemy who decided to step up his verbal abuse campaign. We had a conversation in which he strenuously tried to get me to agree that, if somebody insults you and you are hurt, it means that you have the same values as the person insulting you. Therefore, if someone calls you ugly or fat, and you 'allow' yourself to be hurt by it, it means your concept of human worth depends on beauty and thinness, therefore your own hurt feelings convict you of being a person with evil values.
I replied that actually, the hurt comes from the hostility, which is especially painful when emanating from a supposed friend.
If that's what's going on here, maybe it's time to reconsider the friendship in that light.
posted by tel3path at 2:49 PM on May 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Sorry if I was a bit bitchy about Fred's weight." - Actually, your friend should be the one to say this. The rest of the script is rightfully yours, assuming that's how you want to handle it.
I actually agree with this. But I also think that sometimes friendships are more important than principles. The OP doesn't feel good about this exchange. So apologizing for her part in it--even if it was precipitated by something else--is a very mature approach. Friendships can end if people sit around waiting for an apology. Starting the conversation with the friend might help the OP feel better and help their friendship move on.
In my comments here, I'm assuming that the friendship is otherwise solid and worth preserving.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:49 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I actually agree with this. But I also think that sometimes friendships are more important than principles. The OP doesn't feel good about this exchange. So apologizing for her part in it--even if it was precipitated by something else--is a very mature approach. Friendships can end if people sit around waiting for an apology. Starting the conversation with the friend might help the OP feel better and help their friendship move on.
In my comments here, I'm assuming that the friendship is otherwise solid and worth preserving.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:49 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying wait for an apology, only that the OP wasn't the one being bitchy about Fred's weight so shouldn't apologize for that part.
posted by tel3path at 2:52 PM on May 14, 2011
posted by tel3path at 2:52 PM on May 14, 2011
Fair enough, tel3path. I was thinking she felt like she felt bitchy, but, yeah, the nuances are of course up to her!
posted by bluedaisy at 3:04 PM on May 14, 2011
posted by bluedaisy at 3:04 PM on May 14, 2011
I think it's all fine. You were offended, you let your friend know. Boundaries are good. I don't think we should avoid saying when we're offended simply to avoid conflict. Particularly if she's a good friend.
I often think people think something is acceptable to say/do if no one says otherwise. And people who know full well they shouldn't say/do something can often do it anyway if it's a programmed thing (e.g. created from a mother/daughter abusive relationship). It's like an auto-pilot thing - they know they don't even agree with what they're saying/doing, but they do it anyway. Perhaps you just instinctively felt it was toxic (which it is) and felt the need to shut it down (which you're entitled to do).
The way you articulated it was good because you specifically said what the problem was and why.
posted by mleigh at 4:10 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I often think people think something is acceptable to say/do if no one says otherwise. And people who know full well they shouldn't say/do something can often do it anyway if it's a programmed thing (e.g. created from a mother/daughter abusive relationship). It's like an auto-pilot thing - they know they don't even agree with what they're saying/doing, but they do it anyway. Perhaps you just instinctively felt it was toxic (which it is) and felt the need to shut it down (which you're entitled to do).
The way you articulated it was good because you specifically said what the problem was and why.
posted by mleigh at 4:10 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Hey, Friend, I was hurt by your remarks about BF, and I was pretty harsh with you. Let's have a drink and be friends again."
posted by theora55 at 10:06 AM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 10:06 AM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
Your response was way out of line. I really don't see how what she said was so offensive. Friends talk like that ALL the time!
Take a chill pill.
And apologize.
posted by GeniPalm at 1:11 PM on May 15, 2011
Take a chill pill.
And apologize.
posted by GeniPalm at 1:11 PM on May 15, 2011
I think the question should not be, did your friend deserve the response?, because in some sense she did.
The question should be, was your response hurtful to your friend? It seems like it may have been. One of the obligations of friendship is to try to treat friends well even when they are frustrating us with their actions.
Now, you were feeling defensive at that moment, so it is understandable that you would say something snappy. But that doesn't mean it wasn't hurtful.
If I were you, I would try to pick up the conversation again. Say, "hey, can we talk about that conversation we had about Boyfriend's weight the other day? I was feeling defensive/upset/hurt/protective when you commented on his weight, and I snapped at you in response. I want you to know how I was feeling, and I want to apologize if what I said was hurtful to you."
It may turn out that your friend is over it and this conversation is unnecessary, but it can't hurt and it will probably make you feel better to clear the air.
posted by mai at 1:46 PM on May 15, 2011
The question should be, was your response hurtful to your friend? It seems like it may have been. One of the obligations of friendship is to try to treat friends well even when they are frustrating us with their actions.
Now, you were feeling defensive at that moment, so it is understandable that you would say something snappy. But that doesn't mean it wasn't hurtful.
If I were you, I would try to pick up the conversation again. Say, "hey, can we talk about that conversation we had about Boyfriend's weight the other day? I was feeling defensive/upset/hurt/protective when you commented on his weight, and I snapped at you in response. I want you to know how I was feeling, and I want to apologize if what I said was hurtful to you."
It may turn out that your friend is over it and this conversation is unnecessary, but it can't hurt and it will probably make you feel better to clear the air.
posted by mai at 1:46 PM on May 15, 2011
I don't think you were out of line. You weren't just calling her out on being rude or gossipy about a random person, you were upset that she was being judgmental about your boyfriend, whom you care about. Could you have expressed it in terms of "what you said hurt my feelings" rather than "here's an etiquette lesson for you and your jerk mom"? Sure, and that would have been more to the point. But given that you were trying to stand up for someone you love, I think your response is completely excusable. Whatever I would have said in that situation would not have been half so pleasant.
posted by naoko at 4:42 PM on May 15, 2011
posted by naoko at 4:42 PM on May 15, 2011
I just wanted to second redsparkler. As someone who has weight issues and body issues myself, I think your friend was projecting some of those onto your boyfriend. A compassionate response, telling your friend that weight fluctuations are okay and you love your boyfriend regardless, would have served the same purpose as the harsh response, but it would have bolstered your friend's confidence in you. Especially if you are the one who is there for her during tough times and criticisms from her mother.
Try to be kind. Your friend didn't say this out of anger or out of apathy, she said it because she is deeply hurt. Those are the people who need kindness the most.
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:18 AM on May 16, 2011
Try to be kind. Your friend didn't say this out of anger or out of apathy, she said it because she is deeply hurt. Those are the people who need kindness the most.
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:18 AM on May 16, 2011
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks again for the different perspectives. I asked this question because I was worried that I may have overreacted and compromised my friendship with her, which I didn't want to do. We really are close friends and, as much as I wanted to defend my boyfriend, I didn't want to ruin our friendship. I think I wouldn't have had a problem as much if the question was something like, "Has he gained some weight since I last saw him?", but she brought her mother up which we both knew meant something, and she used the word "chunky" which has negative connotations. I felt I needed her to know that I'm not comfortable with comments about weight, as I understand that this can be a very sensitive topic for people. Anyway, after talking to her again, I see that everything is fine between us.posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:16 PM on May 16, 2011
redsparkler: "To me, your harsh response kinda perpetuated the concept that gaining weight is a horrible horrible thing, so much so that even mentioning the possibility of it to another person would offend them."
I felt that my friend was perpetuating the concept that gaining weight is a bad thing when she described my boyfriend's weight gain with the negative word "chunky." I can't see how someone could easily take a question about weight gain on top of being called something negative regarding their appearance. The fact that I don't think gaining weight is a horrible thing is why I didn't feel I should tolerate her talking about it as though it is.
Just as a data point: I'm an overweight woman and don't have the same reaction you do to the word "chunky," so it's not a universal thing.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:21 PM on May 16, 2011
posted by small_ruminant at 1:21 PM on May 16, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 10:13 AM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]