Buying guns: What to get and how to do it in CA?
April 11, 2011 11:59 AM Subscribe
I want to buy 3-4 guns. Which ones should I get? And how to do it in northern California?
I used to shoot guns every now and then when I was living on the east coast and I miss it. I had a 9mm and a Chinese SKS rifle (unsure of the exact details). They were on loan from my dad so he kept them when I moved to California.
I'm looking to buy something that is just as fun. I'm fairly sure I want another 9mm, but what's a good one to get, and why? Or is there something that is better than that these days? What's a good rifle to get?
Let's say I have a $3,000 budget:
What two handguns and what two rifles should I buy? (if I can afford that many with this budget) I am looking for a mix of how fun it is to shoot plus its usefulness for personal security (close range and long range). Widely available, cheap ammo would be nice, too.
I've read that buying guns and ammo in California is quite an obstacle. Can anyone provide a good step by step guide of what I need to do, in what order, how long it will take, what it will cost, etc?
I used to shoot guns every now and then when I was living on the east coast and I miss it. I had a 9mm and a Chinese SKS rifle (unsure of the exact details). They were on loan from my dad so he kept them when I moved to California.
I'm looking to buy something that is just as fun. I'm fairly sure I want another 9mm, but what's a good one to get, and why? Or is there something that is better than that these days? What's a good rifle to get?
Let's say I have a $3,000 budget:
What two handguns and what two rifles should I buy? (if I can afford that many with this budget) I am looking for a mix of how fun it is to shoot plus its usefulness for personal security (close range and long range). Widely available, cheap ammo would be nice, too.
I've read that buying guns and ammo in California is quite an obstacle. Can anyone provide a good step by step guide of what I need to do, in what order, how long it will take, what it will cost, etc?
This PDF from the NRA may answer some of your questions. A dealer will be in a better position to say "This piece of paperwork usually takes [time] to be processed by [government agency], but lately it's been taking one and a half times that. And if you have [complicating factor], it'll take twice as long.
posted by K.P. at 12:15 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by K.P. at 12:15 PM on April 11, 2011
fun to shoot and widely-available, cheap ammo always says .22 to me (for both rifle or handgun).
That being said, finding four weapons for your budget might be tough and force you to make some compromises.
There are lots of qualifiers for picking a gun. I always suggest visiting a range that rents guns and trying various ones out. Heft, how it fits your hand, action, recoil, caliber are all very personal choices. I like DA/SA, I like a hammer (ie no plunger/no glock), Sigs fit my hand well, etc.
Visiting a range/gun store will also give you a better idea of what your local costs are, and the owners there can tell you what forms and regulations you need to follow to purchase. (You can do your homework online via nra or other websites)
posted by k5.user at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
That being said, finding four weapons for your budget might be tough and force you to make some compromises.
There are lots of qualifiers for picking a gun. I always suggest visiting a range that rents guns and trying various ones out. Heft, how it fits your hand, action, recoil, caliber are all very personal choices. I like DA/SA, I like a hammer (ie no plunger/no glock), Sigs fit my hand well, etc.
Visiting a range/gun store will also give you a better idea of what your local costs are, and the owners there can tell you what forms and regulations you need to follow to purchase. (You can do your homework online via nra or other websites)
posted by k5.user at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Are you planning to do any hunting or just target shooting? I'm wondering if you're excluding shotguns for any particular reason, especially since you mentioned self defence and shotguns are the most effective firearm for defending yourself at home.
posted by atrazine at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by atrazine at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I second the .22 - get a .22 targeting pistol. That is a great gun. Fun to shoot, easy to handle, almost no kick, really good for target practice, and usable at almost any range.
posted by Flood at 12:20 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by Flood at 12:20 PM on April 11, 2011
Personally my favourite handgun is the Walther GSP but that is too expensive and also not suited for self defence.
posted by atrazine at 12:22 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by atrazine at 12:22 PM on April 11, 2011
You have to determine what you want them for. Home protection? Hunting? Casual shooting or plinking or are you thinkin gof getting involved with competitive shooting. Think about it and repost your answers.
posted by JohnE at 12:23 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by JohnE at 12:23 PM on April 11, 2011
When I went to a target range, I enjoyed shooting with a Berretta 9mm. But .22 cal ammunition is so much cheaper, I've done that most times since.
posted by zippy at 12:29 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by zippy at 12:29 PM on April 11, 2011
If you're handy and like a hobby, the Ruger 10/22 is hard to beat in terms of shooting and tinkering fun. Out of the box, it's a great little plinker, and you can modify the way it shoots, handles and looks, with a robust aftermarket for mods.
The other long gun I'd look into is a shotgun - skeet shooting is lots of fun. I'd get either an inexpensive Benelli/Franchi autoloader (easier for a newbie to shoot) or a decent used over/under (more accurate.)
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:35 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
The other long gun I'd look into is a shotgun - skeet shooting is lots of fun. I'd get either an inexpensive Benelli/Franchi autoloader (easier for a newbie to shoot) or a decent used over/under (more accurate.)
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:35 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Ruger 10/22 is a fantastic rifle and is pretty much infinitely customizable. .22 LR ammo is dirt cheap, as mentioned above.
Have you considered a shotgun, rather than a rifle? Shooting clays is a lot more fun that shooting paper targets, in my opinion. The Remington 870 (pump action) or the 1100 (semiauto) are both great introductory guns.
Or, on preview, pretty much exactly what Slap*Happy said.
posted by electroboy at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2011
Have you considered a shotgun, rather than a rifle? Shooting clays is a lot more fun that shooting paper targets, in my opinion. The Remington 870 (pump action) or the 1100 (semiauto) are both great introductory guns.
Or, on preview, pretty much exactly what Slap*Happy said.
posted by electroboy at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2011
Another good combination is the Marlin 1894 lever action rifle and the Ruger GP-100 revolver. Both are .357 and can also shoot .38 special ammo, which is much cheaper and has less recoil. The lever action rifle is ridiculously fun to shoot.
posted by electroboy at 12:44 PM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by electroboy at 12:44 PM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, seconding Ruger 10/22 as a fun target gun. Reasonably priced to start, ammo is fairly cheap, can mod later if you want.
Long guns are not too bad here. Just need the instant background check and a 10 day waiting period. So unless there's something unusual in your history, you'll have it 10 days from when you buy.
Handguns require a Handgun Safety Certificate. This is a test, like the written part of the driver's exam. It's pretty easy and study guides are everywhere, just for those few things that require knowing a specific number or something. But most of it is along the lines of "should you leave a loaded firearm where a child can reach it? yes/no".
It takes a while (or possibly forever) to get the actual certificate, but thats OK. All you need is the number which the gun store can provide to you when you take the test. So really handgun should also be exactly 10 days from purchase.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:45 PM on April 11, 2011
Long guns are not too bad here. Just need the instant background check and a 10 day waiting period. So unless there's something unusual in your history, you'll have it 10 days from when you buy.
Handguns require a Handgun Safety Certificate. This is a test, like the written part of the driver's exam. It's pretty easy and study guides are everywhere, just for those few things that require knowing a specific number or something. But most of it is along the lines of "should you leave a loaded firearm where a child can reach it? yes/no".
It takes a while (or possibly forever) to get the actual certificate, but thats OK. All you need is the number which the gun store can provide to you when you take the test. So really handgun should also be exactly 10 days from purchase.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:45 PM on April 11, 2011
Is there a range in your area that allows you to rent guns? If so, it's a great way to try out the guns you think you might want to play with.
And I'll third and fourth the suggestion of a .22 in either rifle or pistol form. My fiance has this guy and it's a ball to shoot. It's very accurate and you can roll through rounds quite quickly and accurately. And being a .22 you don't worry about the tons of money you're wasting just shooting at a paper target.
posted by teleri025 at 12:47 PM on April 11, 2011
And I'll third and fourth the suggestion of a .22 in either rifle or pistol form. My fiance has this guy and it's a ball to shoot. It's very accurate and you can roll through rounds quite quickly and accurately. And being a .22 you don't worry about the tons of money you're wasting just shooting at a paper target.
posted by teleri025 at 12:47 PM on April 11, 2011
You'd probably be better off buying a regular handgun that will support a .22LR changeout so you can plink any time you are wanting to but can swap out to a useful home defence calibre (.357SIG or .40 S & W are ideal for home defence). Buy a shotgun for home defence - a pump action 12-gauge and use 00 buck in it yet still retains the intidimidating noise of racking the action. SIGs are expensive but excellent. H&K's customer service isn't so hot for private buyers but their reputation in every other arena makes them a good choice otherwise. The USP and more recent variants is available is many calibres and a number of safety/decocker combos that will suit your style, whatever you may decide.
There are plenty of semi-auto M4 variants out there which are easy and fun to shoot. You can get a .22LR conversion kit for this as well to ease up on the expenditure of shooting but don't rely on the training you do with a .22LR in either a short or longarm to serve you when you use them for home defence though. You will want to practice with the weapon in the state you expect to use it.
I'd recommend going to a range and speaking to some folks, join a couple of forums (AR15.com if you intend on buying an M4 variant is perfect) and get to know your fellow shooters and their recommendations. Try before you buy if possible and good luck!
posted by longbaugh at 12:51 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are plenty of semi-auto M4 variants out there which are easy and fun to shoot. You can get a .22LR conversion kit for this as well to ease up on the expenditure of shooting but don't rely on the training you do with a .22LR in either a short or longarm to serve you when you use them for home defence though. You will want to practice with the weapon in the state you expect to use it.
I'd recommend going to a range and speaking to some folks, join a couple of forums (AR15.com if you intend on buying an M4 variant is perfect) and get to know your fellow shooters and their recommendations. Try before you buy if possible and good luck!
posted by longbaugh at 12:51 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
(Apologies for poor editing above - I'm rush-typing this from work and the filters we use block anything to do with guns. It's a wonder I managed to post the above at all...)
posted by longbaugh at 12:59 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by longbaugh at 12:59 PM on April 11, 2011
If you enjoyed the SKS you can pick another one up for just a few hundred bucks, the ammo is not amazingly cheap in stores. But if you go to gun shows you can pick some up for a good price.
A 10/22 is a bunch of fun for poking holes in paper and costs pennies to shoot.
For pistols, Heritage Arms makes a cowboy style revolver that shoots .22LR and .22 Magnum that fun to shoot and only costs a few hundred. Personally I would try to fine a decent looking used .357 Magnum revolver in either a gun store or pawn shop. You can shoot both .357 and .38 out of it. Fun to shoot and great for defense.
If you want a semi auto pistol, get a Glock. They come in all shapes/sizes/flavors/calibers, just pick one. I am partial to the Glock 19, good size and 9mm is affordable.
For shotguns, get a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 pump action for defense. If you want to get into skeet shooting, I bought a Stoeger Condor over under for $350 and put over 3000 rounds through it, amazing amounts of fun.
posted by token-ring at 1:04 PM on April 11, 2011
A 10/22 is a bunch of fun for poking holes in paper and costs pennies to shoot.
For pistols, Heritage Arms makes a cowboy style revolver that shoots .22LR and .22 Magnum that fun to shoot and only costs a few hundred. Personally I would try to fine a decent looking used .357 Magnum revolver in either a gun store or pawn shop. You can shoot both .357 and .38 out of it. Fun to shoot and great for defense.
If you want a semi auto pistol, get a Glock. They come in all shapes/sizes/flavors/calibers, just pick one. I am partial to the Glock 19, good size and 9mm is affordable.
For shotguns, get a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 pump action for defense. If you want to get into skeet shooting, I bought a Stoeger Condor over under for $350 and put over 3000 rounds through it, amazing amounts of fun.
posted by token-ring at 1:04 PM on April 11, 2011
I agree almost entirely with longbaugh here.
If I were in your position I would buy:
-.40 S&W H&K USP (I actually own this, I love it)... Full size handgun, as good a handgun as you are going to find... go with the compact model if you have small hands.
-A 12 gauge shotgun (you should be able to get something pretty decent/reliable here for not a ton of money). Unlike longbaugh, I would load it with shot for slightly smaller game... I don't want to kill the bastard, I want him to wish he were dead...
-Some AR/M4 variant for fun... you will be popping off a lot of rounds here, so make it a 22LR (this is not a reasonable home defense weapon in my opinion, unless you happen to be on the roof, with a bi-pod, and want to pick intruders off at distance (as much as this would be cool, I am not sure how practical this would be))
For the fourth, I am a little torn. I think you are well-covered above but for shits and giggles:
-Something super compact for a concealed carry at a later date if you want to go down that route (or maybe for an SO)
-A giant shiny revolver shooting like .357 or .440 or something
-Something like a 30/30 or .306 for hunting if you wanted to pick that up
-A left handed USP to match the first one
But really, I think I would personally leave it at 3 and use the rest of the money for ammo or relevant classes or accessories (more magazines, scope, cases, holster...)
Have fun!!!
posted by milqman at 1:09 PM on April 11, 2011
If I were in your position I would buy:
-.40 S&W H&K USP (I actually own this, I love it)... Full size handgun, as good a handgun as you are going to find... go with the compact model if you have small hands.
-A 12 gauge shotgun (you should be able to get something pretty decent/reliable here for not a ton of money). Unlike longbaugh, I would load it with shot for slightly smaller game... I don't want to kill the bastard, I want him to wish he were dead...
-Some AR/M4 variant for fun... you will be popping off a lot of rounds here, so make it a 22LR (this is not a reasonable home defense weapon in my opinion, unless you happen to be on the roof, with a bi-pod, and want to pick intruders off at distance (as much as this would be cool, I am not sure how practical this would be))
For the fourth, I am a little torn. I think you are well-covered above but for shits and giggles:
-Something super compact for a concealed carry at a later date if you want to go down that route (or maybe for an SO)
-A giant shiny revolver shooting like .357 or .440 or something
-Something like a 30/30 or .306 for hunting if you wanted to pick that up
-A left handed USP to match the first one
But really, I think I would personally leave it at 3 and use the rest of the money for ammo or relevant classes or accessories (more magazines, scope, cases, holster...)
Have fun!!!
posted by milqman at 1:09 PM on April 11, 2011
-.40 S&W H&K USP (I actually own this, I love it).
+1000. This is my favorite gun. It's a little pricey (both to buy and to shoot), but awesome.
posted by wildcrdj at 1:15 PM on April 11, 2011
+1000. This is my favorite gun. It's a little pricey (both to buy and to shoot), but awesome.
posted by wildcrdj at 1:15 PM on April 11, 2011
There is still a good amount of corrosive 8mm Mauser ammo out there.
If you find a good shop selling milsurp rifles, you can get a good plinker for a few hundred.
I have more 8mm ammo than I need just because it is so cheap. S&B makes a good hunting round in the caliber if you ever need that.
The corrosive ammo requires some extra attention to your gun after shooting.
Many other non-8mm milsurps are out there and cheap, but of them I know nothing.
If you don't care about keeping it milsurp, you can slowly update stock, trigger group, optics, etc.
I love having a lever action chambered in the same caliber as a pistol. .357/.38 is a nice round. A lever gun chambered in .357 can take mid-size game, depending on local regulations. I have seen it take deer and hog here in Texas.
For a 9mm, I personally am deeply in love with Springfield XDs. Great feel and some nice features. They have been in a decent price range last time I looked and Springfield has been importing these long enough that there are many in the used market.
posted by Seamus at 1:17 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you find a good shop selling milsurp rifles, you can get a good plinker for a few hundred.
I have more 8mm ammo than I need just because it is so cheap. S&B makes a good hunting round in the caliber if you ever need that.
The corrosive ammo requires some extra attention to your gun after shooting.
Many other non-8mm milsurps are out there and cheap, but of them I know nothing.
If you don't care about keeping it milsurp, you can slowly update stock, trigger group, optics, etc.
I love having a lever action chambered in the same caliber as a pistol. .357/.38 is a nice round. A lever gun chambered in .357 can take mid-size game, depending on local regulations. I have seen it take deer and hog here in Texas.
For a 9mm, I personally am deeply in love with Springfield XDs. Great feel and some nice features. They have been in a decent price range last time I looked and Springfield has been importing these long enough that there are many in the used market.
posted by Seamus at 1:17 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Consider joining CalGuns. There are active members in your area, and you can probably get a referral from them as to where to buy. You can also find discussion and links so you can research law. Between that, and purchasing from a licensed and reputable dealer, you should be fine legally. Just realize that California's legal scheme for firearms is byzantine and silly. Don't be surprised if some things you might enjoy are flat out illegal here.
You should also either go shooting with some friends and try what they're using, or get a rental at the local range. Just keep in mind, the range guns are often beaters and may not be indicative of how a firearm will feel when its well cared for.
I like both my Beretta 92FS and SIG Sauer P226 in 9mm. The Beretta is often knocked by people who've either never had one or only had ones that have been abused (e.g., military). It's a great weapon, and there are a lot of inexpensive mods you can do to make it better. The SIG is also great, and more accurate out of the box than the Beretta. But it's also hundreds of dollars more.
Also consider a Glock. They are reasonably priced, durable, and reliable. I don't particularly care for them, but it seems to be a matter of taste. They are very, very popular for a reason.
The bottom line is, what is comfortable for my hands may not be so for yours. Try one at the range before you buy.
Also consider getting a handgun model that offers a .22 conversion, or at least also buy a .22 pistol like a Ruger Mk III to save. Also, +1 on the Ruger 10/22. You'll save money.
What you want a rifle for really dictates what you should buy. Jeff Cooper was a big fan of the "scout rifle" in .308 Winchester with a medium/long eye-relief scope as a sort of general purpose rifle. If you just want to do some plinking, or even a little hunting, a Winchester Model 94 is good, especially if you can find an older American-made one. (But get a Marlin if you really want a lever-action rifle with a scope.) If you want serious accuracy and long range, though you'll probably be better off with a bolt-action. You might like the Remington 700.
posted by Hylas at 1:39 PM on April 11, 2011
You should also either go shooting with some friends and try what they're using, or get a rental at the local range. Just keep in mind, the range guns are often beaters and may not be indicative of how a firearm will feel when its well cared for.
I like both my Beretta 92FS and SIG Sauer P226 in 9mm. The Beretta is often knocked by people who've either never had one or only had ones that have been abused (e.g., military). It's a great weapon, and there are a lot of inexpensive mods you can do to make it better. The SIG is also great, and more accurate out of the box than the Beretta. But it's also hundreds of dollars more.
Also consider a Glock. They are reasonably priced, durable, and reliable. I don't particularly care for them, but it seems to be a matter of taste. They are very, very popular for a reason.
The bottom line is, what is comfortable for my hands may not be so for yours. Try one at the range before you buy.
Also consider getting a handgun model that offers a .22 conversion, or at least also buy a .22 pistol like a Ruger Mk III to save. Also, +1 on the Ruger 10/22. You'll save money.
What you want a rifle for really dictates what you should buy. Jeff Cooper was a big fan of the "scout rifle" in .308 Winchester with a medium/long eye-relief scope as a sort of general purpose rifle. If you just want to do some plinking, or even a little hunting, a Winchester Model 94 is good, especially if you can find an older American-made one. (But get a Marlin if you really want a lever-action rifle with a scope.) If you want serious accuracy and long range, though you'll probably be better off with a bolt-action. You might like the Remington 700.
posted by Hylas at 1:39 PM on April 11, 2011
I've heard good things about the Springfield xD and the compact variant thereof also. Has anyone had any experience with the S & W M&P at all? I've heard good things about it and supposedly it's a lot cheaper than a SIG or an H & K. Branding isn't everything!
Also - don't believe everyone who insists on a .45 for home/personal defence. There is no real difference between shooting someone with a .40 or a .45. The extra 1.5mm will make little to no difference to the target and the additional recoil and signature are major ticks against it, particularly if shooting in a low-light environment (i.e. in the standard "home invasion" scenario). If you intend to use the handgun for home defence it's worth considering if it has a light-rail under the frame. Some people recommend a separately held torch due to the worry that the torch under the gun will give away the firing position, personally I reckon it makes no difference and having a spare hand is more useful.
I'd recommend if you get the chance and have some spare money watching the awesome Magpul "Art of the Tactical Handgun/Shotgun/Carbine" videos as well (Youtube has the ads, the outtakes and a few other bits and bobs). After watching them you'll want to fly out to run and gun with Chris Costa and Travis Haley as much as I do :)
This should go without saying but nonetheless - if you have children or other family with you you must be absolutely certain that having a firearm in the house is acceptable to your partner and that the weapon and ammunition is secure where children or other people cannot reach them. Also, if you are concerned about their safety in a home invasion scenario then you must also practice procedures the same as if you were practising what to do in the event of a fire.
If you are worried about home security that's fine but also remember that statistically having a firearm in your house increases the chance that you or someone close to you will be at danger of injury. Guns are tools and so are a lot of gun-owners. Be sensible, be secure and be safe.
posted by longbaugh at 1:47 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also - don't believe everyone who insists on a .45 for home/personal defence. There is no real difference between shooting someone with a .40 or a .45. The extra 1.5mm will make little to no difference to the target and the additional recoil and signature are major ticks against it, particularly if shooting in a low-light environment (i.e. in the standard "home invasion" scenario). If you intend to use the handgun for home defence it's worth considering if it has a light-rail under the frame. Some people recommend a separately held torch due to the worry that the torch under the gun will give away the firing position, personally I reckon it makes no difference and having a spare hand is more useful.
I'd recommend if you get the chance and have some spare money watching the awesome Magpul "Art of the Tactical Handgun/Shotgun/Carbine" videos as well (Youtube has the ads, the outtakes and a few other bits and bobs). After watching them you'll want to fly out to run and gun with Chris Costa and Travis Haley as much as I do :)
This should go without saying but nonetheless - if you have children or other family with you you must be absolutely certain that having a firearm in the house is acceptable to your partner and that the weapon and ammunition is secure where children or other people cannot reach them. Also, if you are concerned about their safety in a home invasion scenario then you must also practice procedures the same as if you were practising what to do in the event of a fire.
If you are worried about home security that's fine but also remember that statistically having a firearm in your house increases the chance that you or someone close to you will be at danger of injury. Guns are tools and so are a lot of gun-owners. Be sensible, be secure and be safe.
posted by longbaugh at 1:47 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Regarding the comment above about using bird shot for home defense: You don't want to just wound a home intruder. Either they will still be able to harm you -or- they will sue the pants off of you. And remember, anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Bullets are cheap, life is expensive.
posted by Lone_Wolf at 1:48 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by Lone_Wolf at 1:48 PM on April 11, 2011
I agree with a lot of what was said above.
Start with two .22s, one rifle and one pistol. There are a lot of good choices for both; it's hard to go wrong as long as you stick with good brands.
Then your choices get trickier, but again you can't really go wrong with good quality brands. One pistol in a self-defense caliber (eg 9mm, 45, etc); your biggest choice here is going to be small and concealable or big and easier to shoot?
And then either a pump 12 gauge (get one with both sporting and home defense barrels) or a nice hunting rifle, depending on your interests.
posted by Forktine at 1:56 PM on April 11, 2011
Start with two .22s, one rifle and one pistol. There are a lot of good choices for both; it's hard to go wrong as long as you stick with good brands.
Then your choices get trickier, but again you can't really go wrong with good quality brands. One pistol in a self-defense caliber (eg 9mm, 45, etc); your biggest choice here is going to be small and concealable or big and easier to shoot?
And then either a pump 12 gauge (get one with both sporting and home defense barrels) or a nice hunting rifle, depending on your interests.
posted by Forktine at 1:56 PM on April 11, 2011
I would go rent at a range if you can. I read a bunch and thought I knew what I wanted to buy but when I tried some at the target range, I ended up having opposite opinions: loving an old 1911 and hating the Beretta 92FS. I ended up compromising by buying a Glock 19 which I never shoot or clean. If I had bought a "fun" gun that I liked, I would probably shoot more.
posted by acheekymonkey at 2:47 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by acheekymonkey at 2:47 PM on April 11, 2011
I don't want to kill the bastard, I want him to wish he were dead...
When it comes to defending yourself, you shoot to kill. Shooting to wound can end very badly.
Also - don't believe everyone who insists on a .45 for home/personal defence. There is no real difference between shooting someone with a .40 or a .45
.45 ammo has traditionally been easier to find.
To the OP, I love my Springfield XD 9mm(and its precursor.) I would reccommend one of those and a 22 for cheap and fun target shooting.
posted by SuzySmith at 4:39 PM on April 11, 2011
When it comes to defending yourself, you shoot to kill. Shooting to wound can end very badly.
Also - don't believe everyone who insists on a .45 for home/personal defence. There is no real difference between shooting someone with a .40 or a .45
.45 ammo has traditionally been easier to find.
To the OP, I love my Springfield XD 9mm(and its precursor.) I would reccommend one of those and a 22 for cheap and fun target shooting.
posted by SuzySmith at 4:39 PM on April 11, 2011
shotguns are the most effective firearm for defending yourself at home
This is not necessarily the case. If you are choosing a firearm for home security, you should speak with a dealer who knows how to help you choose one for that purpose, or at least read and do a lot of thinking. A shotgun might be good if you plan to wait in your bedroom while calling the police, but less so if you have children sleeping on another floor and would have to confront an intruder on a narrow winding stairway. Or if your partner does not have the upper body to wield one. Or if you wanted to use a gun safe like this one to keep it safe from children but quickly available. If you have serious concerns you should speak with a knowledgeable person to weigh your options based on your individual situation.
statistically having a firearm in your house increases the chance that you or someone close to you will be at danger of injury. Guns are tools and so are a lot of gun-owners.
This is true and not-true so far as many people who own guns also engage in a lot of risky behavior generally. If you are not doing so (gun locked away from kids, no cowboy games, no unstable people in your home regularly) then you and others are, statistically speaking, much more at-risk from your bathtub, car, medicine cabinet and whatnot.
posted by K.P. at 5:22 PM on April 11, 2011
This is not necessarily the case. If you are choosing a firearm for home security, you should speak with a dealer who knows how to help you choose one for that purpose, or at least read and do a lot of thinking. A shotgun might be good if you plan to wait in your bedroom while calling the police, but less so if you have children sleeping on another floor and would have to confront an intruder on a narrow winding stairway. Or if your partner does not have the upper body to wield one. Or if you wanted to use a gun safe like this one to keep it safe from children but quickly available. If you have serious concerns you should speak with a knowledgeable person to weigh your options based on your individual situation.
statistically having a firearm in your house increases the chance that you or someone close to you will be at danger of injury. Guns are tools and so are a lot of gun-owners.
This is true and not-true so far as many people who own guns also engage in a lot of risky behavior generally. If you are not doing so (gun locked away from kids, no cowboy games, no unstable people in your home regularly) then you and others are, statistically speaking, much more at-risk from your bathtub, car, medicine cabinet and whatnot.
posted by K.P. at 5:22 PM on April 11, 2011
I really like the Marlin and same caliber pistol thing, whether in .357mag/38 Special or .44mag/.44 Special. In .38 Special and .44 Special, you can get loads that are candy, really light, lots of fun still, not much jolt. And then in .44mag or .357mag you can get loads that'll take your breath away, and that is just so much fun, you almost have to smile, it's just such a kick. I'd go with the .44mag versions but either would be fun, either of them have plenty of pop, either of them can also be sweet natured, gentle rides, the .44mag especially can be used against most game in the US. Good clean fun.
And a shotgun, pump action. More fun. Enough written upthread, no need for me to try to chime in anything more. Um, okay, maybe this: buckshot can keep on traveling through walls or people, and can damage whatever might be behind them, whereas a smaller load, while big enough to tear a 2x4 in half in one shot, will at the very least slow down on its way through walls. I'm not talking dove shot here, more like duck pheasant load.
The .22 thing? Yeah, super cheap to buy and shoot, lots of fun, rifle or pistol or both. First gun I ever shot was a single shot .22 rifle, Sears catalog, probably fifteen or twenty bucks at that time, it set me to loving guns yet truly respecting the distances involved -- wow. They aren't toys, I learned that first off, my brother-in-law a great teacher, a fine man, I was lucky to have him introduce me to guns. Good guy.
An automatic pistol. I know that this is taking you over the number of guns you're looking to purchase but fact is that you've plenty enough budgeted to do whatever you want so long as you don't fall for marketing ploys. As noted upthread, Glock is very popular for a reason. They really shoot sweetly. And I've heard real good things about the xD Springfields, too, that they are remarkably well engineered, and not jumpy at all, even in a potent round like the .40, in which the Glock *does* jump around, at least my buddy's Glock does.
I hope you find the right guns, I'm envious of your quest, you've a lot of fun in front of you.
posted by dancestoblue at 5:40 PM on April 11, 2011
And a shotgun, pump action. More fun. Enough written upthread, no need for me to try to chime in anything more. Um, okay, maybe this: buckshot can keep on traveling through walls or people, and can damage whatever might be behind them, whereas a smaller load, while big enough to tear a 2x4 in half in one shot, will at the very least slow down on its way through walls. I'm not talking dove shot here, more like duck pheasant load.
The .22 thing? Yeah, super cheap to buy and shoot, lots of fun, rifle or pistol or both. First gun I ever shot was a single shot .22 rifle, Sears catalog, probably fifteen or twenty bucks at that time, it set me to loving guns yet truly respecting the distances involved -- wow. They aren't toys, I learned that first off, my brother-in-law a great teacher, a fine man, I was lucky to have him introduce me to guns. Good guy.
An automatic pistol. I know that this is taking you over the number of guns you're looking to purchase but fact is that you've plenty enough budgeted to do whatever you want so long as you don't fall for marketing ploys. As noted upthread, Glock is very popular for a reason. They really shoot sweetly. And I've heard real good things about the xD Springfields, too, that they are remarkably well engineered, and not jumpy at all, even in a potent round like the .40, in which the Glock *does* jump around, at least my buddy's Glock does.
I hope you find the right guns, I'm envious of your quest, you've a lot of fun in front of you.
posted by dancestoblue at 5:40 PM on April 11, 2011
Here's what I own:
- S&W Model 41 target pistol in .22LR. Fantastic! I've had it for almost 25 years. About $1200 new.
- High Standard Sharpshooter target pistol in .22LR. Now about 30 years old. A little finicky but very accurate. Bought it new in 1980 for $250 and not sure what it's worth today.
- Walther PPS in 9MM. Small, very nice. People always want to try it at the range. $700-ish.
- Springfield Micro-Compact 1911-A1 in .45. Small and beautifully made—jewel-like. Very difficult to disassemble/reassemble. $1200-ish.
- Chief AJ modified Ruger 10/22 with a 22x target scope. Very heavy barreled .22 intended for target. Very nice and extremely accurate. Bought it used for about $1300.
- IZH-Baikal 46M match-grade target pistol in .177. Incredibly accurate and a bargain at $500. Competes against the likes of the FWB and other match pistols at a fraction of the price.
I recommend any of these but also recommend the S&W Model 617 10-shot revolver with a 6" barrel. Beautifully made and crazy accurate. Can be hard to find. $800-$1100.
For defense a Glock is hard to beat simply because they seldom ever fail, even when horribly neglected, and shoot very well. They're not high-art guns though and I admit that I am a sucker for dramatic-looking and beautifully made firearms.
One very compelling thing about air pistols: You can shoot them in your house with a pellet trap. They're quiet and they will increase your skills rapidly simply because they are so available for practice—you don't have to go to the range.
posted by bz at 6:39 PM on April 11, 2011
- S&W Model 41 target pistol in .22LR. Fantastic! I've had it for almost 25 years. About $1200 new.
- High Standard Sharpshooter target pistol in .22LR. Now about 30 years old. A little finicky but very accurate. Bought it new in 1980 for $250 and not sure what it's worth today.
- Walther PPS in 9MM. Small, very nice. People always want to try it at the range. $700-ish.
- Springfield Micro-Compact 1911-A1 in .45. Small and beautifully made—jewel-like. Very difficult to disassemble/reassemble. $1200-ish.
- Chief AJ modified Ruger 10/22 with a 22x target scope. Very heavy barreled .22 intended for target. Very nice and extremely accurate. Bought it used for about $1300.
- IZH-Baikal 46M match-grade target pistol in .177. Incredibly accurate and a bargain at $500. Competes against the likes of the FWB and other match pistols at a fraction of the price.
I recommend any of these but also recommend the S&W Model 617 10-shot revolver with a 6" barrel. Beautifully made and crazy accurate. Can be hard to find. $800-$1100.
For defense a Glock is hard to beat simply because they seldom ever fail, even when horribly neglected, and shoot very well. They're not high-art guns though and I admit that I am a sucker for dramatic-looking and beautifully made firearms.
One very compelling thing about air pistols: You can shoot them in your house with a pellet trap. They're quiet and they will increase your skills rapidly simply because they are so available for practice—you don't have to go to the range.
posted by bz at 6:39 PM on April 11, 2011
- IZH-Baikal 46M match-grade target pistol in .177. Incredibly accurate and a bargain at $500. Competes against the likes of the FWB and other match pistols at a fraction of the price.
Oh yeah, I love these too. Obviously not useful for self defense but great fun. This is what I own at the moment but I'm a target shooter only and live in a jurisdiction where firearm ownership is extremely difficult.
posted by atrazine at 3:13 AM on April 12, 2011
Oh yeah, I love these too. Obviously not useful for self defense but great fun. This is what I own at the moment but I'm a target shooter only and live in a jurisdiction where firearm ownership is extremely difficult.
posted by atrazine at 3:13 AM on April 12, 2011
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posted by rtha at 12:13 PM on April 11, 2011