How do I bake a dense, chewy bagel?
April 6, 2011 8:59 AM Subscribe
How do I bake a dense, chewy bagel at home?
I've been baking quite a bit recently, and am trying to expand my repertoire. I've also been missing good bagels, which seem to be unavailable anywhere within about a hundred miles of where I'm currently living, so I'm hoping to expand my repertoire in that direction. Last weekend I had a lot of fun with my first try--especially boiling the dough, which I'd never done before. But what came out of the oven were tasty bread rolls, not bagels.
Now, the crunchy, tasty crust worked pretty well for a first attempt, and I'm confident that with a bit of practice I'll be able to get them to bake without the hole in the middle closing over. But I'm not sure what I need to do to get that dense, chewy texture of the dough itself--which is far more the POINT of a bagel than the hole in the middle.
Suggestions? Boil the dough for a bit longer? Try a different recipe? The one I used is from a generally trusted source, but he admits--scandalously in my view--to being 'pretty lukewarm' about bagels, so it's not his best.
Thanks!
I've been baking quite a bit recently, and am trying to expand my repertoire. I've also been missing good bagels, which seem to be unavailable anywhere within about a hundred miles of where I'm currently living, so I'm hoping to expand my repertoire in that direction. Last weekend I had a lot of fun with my first try--especially boiling the dough, which I'd never done before. But what came out of the oven were tasty bread rolls, not bagels.
Now, the crunchy, tasty crust worked pretty well for a first attempt, and I'm confident that with a bit of practice I'll be able to get them to bake without the hole in the middle closing over. But I'm not sure what I need to do to get that dense, chewy texture of the dough itself--which is far more the POINT of a bagel than the hole in the middle.
Suggestions? Boil the dough for a bit longer? Try a different recipe? The one I used is from a generally trusted source, but he admits--scandalously in my view--to being 'pretty lukewarm' about bagels, so it's not his best.
Thanks!
i like peter reinhart's recipe (and super trust smitten kitchen).
posted by anya32 at 9:03 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by anya32 at 9:03 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Oh no!
I'm not in America any more.
...metric system measurements, if possible?
But I'll translate these recipes and give them a go, they sound great. And I'd welcome any more suggestions. Thanks!
posted by lapsangsouchong at 9:07 AM on April 6, 2011
I'm not in America any more.
...metric system measurements, if possible?
But I'll translate these recipes and give them a go, they sound great. And I'd welcome any more suggestions. Thanks!
posted by lapsangsouchong at 9:07 AM on April 6, 2011
If you're willing to wait until Sunday, I'll let you know. I plan to make these this weekend.
posted by phunniemee at 9:08 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by phunniemee at 9:08 AM on April 6, 2011
i think this may be a conversion for the reinhart recipe.
posted by anya32 at 9:11 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by anya32 at 9:11 AM on April 6, 2011
I use Peter Reinhart’s recipe, from his comprehensive book, “The Bread Baker’s Apprentice,” which I recommend highly. These instructions have been slightly modified from those at The Fresh Loaf (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/bagels). The Fresh Loaf is a fantastic resource for bakers, and is the number one place to go for online help with your bread baking.
*******
BAGELS
Sponge:
1 teaspoon instant yeast
4 cups bread flour
2 1/2 cups water
Dough:
1/2 teaspoon instant yeast
3 3/4 cups bread flour
2 3/4 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons malt powder
OR
1 tablespoon malt syrup, honey, or brown sugar
Finishing touches:
1 tablespoon baking soda for the water
Cornmeal for dusting the pan
Toppings for the bagels such as seeds, salt, onion, or garlic
The Day Before
Stir the yeast into the flour in a large mixing bowl, or in the bowl of your KitchenAid mixer. Add the water and stir until all ingredients are blended. Cover with plastic wrap and allow to rise for two hours. I put mine in the microwave, and found that due to the cold temperatures, it took longer than two hours to rise.
Remove the plastic wrap and stir the additional yeast into the sponge. Add 3 cups of the flour, the malt powder (or brown sugar), and the salt into the bowl and mix until all of the ingredients form a ball. I use the dough hook attachment, and scrape the sides of the bowl down until the dough is mixed. You need to work in the additional 3/4 cups of flour to stiffen the dough, either while still mixing in the bowl or while kneading. The dough should be stiffer and drier than normal bread dough, but moist enough that all of the ingredients are well blended. This is a very heavy dough, and it’s probably a good idea not to let your mixer work too hard, for too long; I use the lowest speed and mix for about 4 minutes at a time.
Pour the dough out of the bowl onto a clean surface (I sprinkle my wooden bread board with spare flour) and knead for 10 minutes.
Immediately after kneading, place in a well-oiled bowl, coat dough with oil in bowl, cover it loosely with plastic wrap and put it in the refrigerator. [The original recipe says to divide and shape, and then let rounds rest on pans, but who has that kind of space?]
The Next Day
Take your dough out and give it about an hour to warm up. Weigh the dough ball in ounces—my best successes have come with dough balls that are about 5 oz., give or take, and I usually end up with 16 bagels—and then use a pastry scraper to divide it. (In half, each half in half, then each lump into four pieces.) Roll each piece into a ball.
Shaping the bagel is a snap: punch your thumb through the center of each roll and then rotate the dough, working it so that the bagel is as even in width as possible.
When you have all 16 pieces made, cover them with a damp towel and let them rest on an oiled sheet pan (I use Silpat dusted with cornmeal) for about 20 minutes. Maybe longer. While you’re waiting, fill up a wide-width stockpot with water and add a tablespoon or two of baking soda. Put on stovetop and begin to bring it to a boil. The goal is to have the pot boiling as soon as the bagels pass the “float test.”
The suggested method of testing whether the bagels are ready to boil is by dropping one of them into a bowl of water: if the bagel floats back up to the surface in under ten seconds it is ready to boil. If not, it needs to rise more. Do not cheat--they must be able to float.
Preheat the oven to 500.
When the pot is boiling, drop a few of the bagels into the pot one at a time and let them boil for a minute. Use a large, slotted spoon or spatula to gently flip them over and boil them on the other side for a minute or so.
Before removing them from the pot, sprinkle corn meal onto the sheet pan. Remove them one at a time, set them back onto the sheet pan, and top them right away, while they are still slightly moist. Repeat this process until all of the bagels (for a single tray) have been boiled and topped. I toss some dried minced garlic in a small bowl and hydrate it slightly, so it sticks to the bagels. Dried onion works nicely, as do poppy and sesame seeds; my child’s favorite is the Everything, which includes garlic, sea salt, poppy and sesame.
Once they have, place the sheet pan into the preheated oven and bake for 5 minutes. Reduce the heat to 450 degrees, rotate the pan, and bake for another 5 minutes until the bagels begin to brown. Remove the pan from the oven and let cool. Repeat baking process with remaining trays. Mine seem to bake better when I do only one tray at a time in the oven--YMMV.
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:16 AM on April 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
*******
BAGELS
Sponge:
1 teaspoon instant yeast
4 cups bread flour
2 1/2 cups water
Dough:
1/2 teaspoon instant yeast
3 3/4 cups bread flour
2 3/4 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons malt powder
OR
1 tablespoon malt syrup, honey, or brown sugar
Finishing touches:
1 tablespoon baking soda for the water
Cornmeal for dusting the pan
Toppings for the bagels such as seeds, salt, onion, or garlic
The Day Before
Stir the yeast into the flour in a large mixing bowl, or in the bowl of your KitchenAid mixer. Add the water and stir until all ingredients are blended. Cover with plastic wrap and allow to rise for two hours. I put mine in the microwave, and found that due to the cold temperatures, it took longer than two hours to rise.
Remove the plastic wrap and stir the additional yeast into the sponge. Add 3 cups of the flour, the malt powder (or brown sugar), and the salt into the bowl and mix until all of the ingredients form a ball. I use the dough hook attachment, and scrape the sides of the bowl down until the dough is mixed. You need to work in the additional 3/4 cups of flour to stiffen the dough, either while still mixing in the bowl or while kneading. The dough should be stiffer and drier than normal bread dough, but moist enough that all of the ingredients are well blended. This is a very heavy dough, and it’s probably a good idea not to let your mixer work too hard, for too long; I use the lowest speed and mix for about 4 minutes at a time.
Pour the dough out of the bowl onto a clean surface (I sprinkle my wooden bread board with spare flour) and knead for 10 minutes.
Immediately after kneading, place in a well-oiled bowl, coat dough with oil in bowl, cover it loosely with plastic wrap and put it in the refrigerator. [The original recipe says to divide and shape, and then let rounds rest on pans, but who has that kind of space?]
The Next Day
Take your dough out and give it about an hour to warm up. Weigh the dough ball in ounces—my best successes have come with dough balls that are about 5 oz., give or take, and I usually end up with 16 bagels—and then use a pastry scraper to divide it. (In half, each half in half, then each lump into four pieces.) Roll each piece into a ball.
Shaping the bagel is a snap: punch your thumb through the center of each roll and then rotate the dough, working it so that the bagel is as even in width as possible.
When you have all 16 pieces made, cover them with a damp towel and let them rest on an oiled sheet pan (I use Silpat dusted with cornmeal) for about 20 minutes. Maybe longer. While you’re waiting, fill up a wide-width stockpot with water and add a tablespoon or two of baking soda. Put on stovetop and begin to bring it to a boil. The goal is to have the pot boiling as soon as the bagels pass the “float test.”
The suggested method of testing whether the bagels are ready to boil is by dropping one of them into a bowl of water: if the bagel floats back up to the surface in under ten seconds it is ready to boil. If not, it needs to rise more. Do not cheat--they must be able to float.
Preheat the oven to 500.
When the pot is boiling, drop a few of the bagels into the pot one at a time and let them boil for a minute. Use a large, slotted spoon or spatula to gently flip them over and boil them on the other side for a minute or so.
Before removing them from the pot, sprinkle corn meal onto the sheet pan. Remove them one at a time, set them back onto the sheet pan, and top them right away, while they are still slightly moist. Repeat this process until all of the bagels (for a single tray) have been boiled and topped. I toss some dried minced garlic in a small bowl and hydrate it slightly, so it sticks to the bagels. Dried onion works nicely, as do poppy and sesame seeds; my child’s favorite is the Everything, which includes garlic, sea salt, poppy and sesame.
Once they have, place the sheet pan into the preheated oven and bake for 5 minutes. Reduce the heat to 450 degrees, rotate the pan, and bake for another 5 minutes until the bagels begin to brown. Remove the pan from the oven and let cool. Repeat baking process with remaining trays. Mine seem to bake better when I do only one tray at a time in the oven--YMMV.
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:16 AM on April 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
The Martha Stewart recipe is good.
I tend to add, as she suggests, something like molasses or malt syrup? I think the sugar does something whilst boiling? It gives them that weird bagely inside. (The Smitten adaptation has similar.) I think this encourages a wet dough, which helps, so you don't end up with like, boiled biscuits.
(Also I salt and sugar the heck out of the dough. I mean, not CRAZY. But...)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 9:17 AM on April 6, 2011
I tend to add, as she suggests, something like molasses or malt syrup? I think the sugar does something whilst boiling? It gives them that weird bagely inside. (The Smitten adaptation has similar.) I think this encourages a wet dough, which helps, so you don't end up with like, boiled biscuits.
(Also I salt and sugar the heck out of the dough. I mean, not CRAZY. But...)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 9:17 AM on April 6, 2011
If you have access to the book Peter Reinhard def gives his recipes in bakers percentages as well as volumetric, so a metric conversion is nice and easy.
I always prefer to bake by weight/bakers percentage - just throw a bowl on the scale and tare away.
posted by JPD at 9:17 AM on April 6, 2011
I always prefer to bake by weight/bakers percentage - just throw a bowl on the scale and tare away.
posted by JPD at 9:17 AM on April 6, 2011
oh - and yeah - go check out "The Fresh Loaf" a great place to learn how to bake.
posted by JPD at 9:23 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by JPD at 9:23 AM on April 6, 2011
I make the Peter Reinhart recipe, but for some reason, in my kitchen the "float test" is useless as they seem to pass it immediately upon shaping. Because of this I don't leave them out at all for proofing; they go right into the fridge as soon as they're all weighed and shaped. Mine sit overnight to get cooked first thing in the AM, but an even shorter proofing time should give you smaller holes and a denser crumb.
I also found that boiling for two full minutes per side gives the crust I'm looking for, plus using the longest baking time specified.
posted by mneekadon at 9:23 AM on April 6, 2011
I also found that boiling for two full minutes per side gives the crust I'm looking for, plus using the longest baking time specified.
posted by mneekadon at 9:23 AM on April 6, 2011
This bagel post from ruhlman.com includes grams/percentages for all ingredients except (inexplicably) baking soda. It also includes a lot of interesting discussion about what makes bagels good and bad.
posted by purpleclover at 9:36 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by purpleclover at 9:36 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
You can type measurements straight into the Google search box if you need to convert units.
posted by hwyengr at 10:23 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by hwyengr at 10:23 AM on April 6, 2011
Montreal bagels are smaller, sweeter and denser (and the best!) If you are having a problem with chew and the size of the hole, you may as well shoot for the type of bagel that is strongest in these areas.
I haven't tried making them yet (and there are ways to get decent results without having a wood fired oven), but you might try this recipe, converting the measurements in Google.
posted by maudlin at 10:34 AM on April 6, 2011
I haven't tried making them yet (and there are ways to get decent results without having a wood fired oven), but you might try this recipe, converting the measurements in Google.
posted by maudlin at 10:34 AM on April 6, 2011
I saw on TV once that the secret to getting perfect bagels involves lye (!) in the water you boil them in. Here's a link to a lye bagel recipe that looks good.
posted by stopgap at 11:01 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by stopgap at 11:01 AM on April 6, 2011
If working with lye makes you nervous Alton Brown had a Good Eats episode about soft pretzels and offered up an alternative using baking soda. The print recipe doesn't offer this option for some reason but the video covers it at about the 5 minute mark.
posted by phearlez at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by phearlez at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2011
I came in here to say things that it turns out have already been said, but I'll still add my own endorsement: Peter Reinhart's The Breadbaker's Apprentice is awesome, and the bagels I've made from it came out better than any I've been able to buy around here (San Francisco). I boil them a little longer than it says for extra chewiness.
posted by aubilenon at 11:50 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by aubilenon at 11:50 AM on April 6, 2011
In my opinion and experience, some of it working in a bagel bakery, high gluten content is the key to a dense chewy bagel. I recommend adding some vital wheat gluten to your dough, which should be made with bread flour. No tricks with sweetener, or water additives, will ever make up for a dough that is short on gluten.
posted by OmieWise at 12:04 PM on April 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 12:04 PM on April 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
I remember reading about someone who kept trying to make her own, but only produced successful results when she used some barley malt in the recipe. I think some people also use molasses and/or very dark honey.
posted by Thinkmontgolfier at 3:02 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Thinkmontgolfier at 3:02 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
From "A World of Breads" by David White:
3 cups flour plus 1/4 cup for the readboard
1 tsp salt
4 Tbsp sugar
1 cake yeast
2/3 cup warm potato water (I think this is just water that potatoes have been boiled in)
3 tablespoons salad oil
2 eggs
4 quarts boiling water
Sift the flour, salt and 2 tablespoons of the sugar into a mixing bowl. Dissolve the yeast in 1/3 cup of the potato water and add yeast to the flour mixture. Add the oil to the remaining potato water and stir into the flour mixture. Then add the eggs and stir until dough forms a ball. Turn out onto a floured board and knead thoroughly for at least 5 minutes. Place the dough in a buttered bowl, cover, and let rise until doubled. Then punch the dough down and let it rise again. Punch down again, turn out onto a floured board, and knead again, until the dough is smooth and elastic. Divide the dough into 12 to 15 portions and form each portion into a strip about 6 inches long and 3/4 inch thick. Pinch the ends together to form rings. Add the remaining 2 tablespoons sugar to the boiling water. Drop the bagels into the water one at a time, cooking 4 or 5 at once, depending on the size of the pot. Simmer the bagels for 5 to 7 minutes from the time they rise to the surface of the water. Then lift them out of water with a long-handled fork and place them on a very lightly greased cookie sheet. Let them cool for about 5 minutes. Then place them in a 375 degree oven, and bake for 25 to 35 minutes, or until the crust is golden brown and crisp.
I've only made these once, and they were a little eggy, but nonetheless very tasty bagels. At the time, I attributed the distinctive bagel texture to the triple rise, but I'll definitely be going through these links to see what else is involved.
If you come across it, try to pick up a copy of the book, every recipe in it seems to turn out well.
posted by marakesh at 4:30 PM on April 6, 2011
3 cups flour plus 1/4 cup for the readboard
1 tsp salt
4 Tbsp sugar
1 cake yeast
2/3 cup warm potato water (I think this is just water that potatoes have been boiled in)
3 tablespoons salad oil
2 eggs
4 quarts boiling water
Sift the flour, salt and 2 tablespoons of the sugar into a mixing bowl. Dissolve the yeast in 1/3 cup of the potato water and add yeast to the flour mixture. Add the oil to the remaining potato water and stir into the flour mixture. Then add the eggs and stir until dough forms a ball. Turn out onto a floured board and knead thoroughly for at least 5 minutes. Place the dough in a buttered bowl, cover, and let rise until doubled. Then punch the dough down and let it rise again. Punch down again, turn out onto a floured board, and knead again, until the dough is smooth and elastic. Divide the dough into 12 to 15 portions and form each portion into a strip about 6 inches long and 3/4 inch thick. Pinch the ends together to form rings. Add the remaining 2 tablespoons sugar to the boiling water. Drop the bagels into the water one at a time, cooking 4 or 5 at once, depending on the size of the pot. Simmer the bagels for 5 to 7 minutes from the time they rise to the surface of the water. Then lift them out of water with a long-handled fork and place them on a very lightly greased cookie sheet. Let them cool for about 5 minutes. Then place them in a 375 degree oven, and bake for 25 to 35 minutes, or until the crust is golden brown and crisp.
I've only made these once, and they were a little eggy, but nonetheless very tasty bagels. At the time, I attributed the distinctive bagel texture to the triple rise, but I'll definitely be going through these links to see what else is involved.
If you come across it, try to pick up a copy of the book, every recipe in it seems to turn out well.
posted by marakesh at 4:30 PM on April 6, 2011
Nthing the Reinhart recipe as well as the tips from Smitten Kitchen (anya's link). I've made dozens of batches in the last couple of years, and it works beautifully every time. I use malt syrup in the dough and in the boil water. I find that the crust caramelizes better that way. If I'm out of malt syrup, molasses works quite well without hurting the flavor. High gluten flour works best, and I'm lucky to have a friend in the pizza business to get my flour from, but I've made them with all-purpose flour and they still came out great.
I also agree with what mneekadon said about the float test. For me, they come out better and hold their shape best (no collapsing) if I refrigerate immediately after final shaping.
posted by gimli at 6:28 PM on April 6, 2011
I also agree with what mneekadon said about the float test. For me, they come out better and hold their shape best (no collapsing) if I refrigerate immediately after final shaping.
posted by gimli at 6:28 PM on April 6, 2011
Back before 100 versions of any recipe you wanted were on the Internet - or at least before I could find them -- I created this version of a bagel recipe based on guesswork and adapting some recipes that I found that had equipment I didn't as a still-in-college student (certain pots, probably a break maker) You'll see it's much simpler than many that have been listed here, and I'm sure that part of it would show, depending on your level of expertise.
This won't get you bagels that look like the fancy glamor shots in the recipes listed above but it will get you dense, chewy, and (if my college friends, bosses, and professors are to be believed) delicious bagels. (I only ever wrote it down because I got so many requests; therefore, the existing copy was now found as a printed-off email in a binder. It's so old that my email had a sig line with an ASCII greyhound.)
(I ran the measurements through Wolfram Alpha, so apologies if they are a little off.)
---------------
1 1/8 cups hot water (265 mL)
1 tablespoon vegetable oil (13 g)
2 tablespoons sugar (24 g)
1 teaspoon salt (6 g)
3 1/3 cups bread flour (456 g)
2 teaspoons active dry yeast (8 g)
Mix all ingredients.
Kneed the dough.
Grease a large mixing bowl.
Turn dough in bowl so it is greased all over.
Cover -- let rise for one hour.
If you push finger in it and it dents, then it is ready.
No dent -- let it finish.
Kneed it some more. If it's too sticky, put more flour in it.
Press it into a rectangle. Cut into 12 strips.
Make circles out of strips.
Put them on greased backing sheet at least one inch aprt.
Take plastic wrap, spray it, cover bagels with it.
Let it rise for 20 minutes.
Meanwhile, bowl 3-4 inches (8-10 cm) of water in a 4 to 6 quart (3.785 to 5.678 liters) pot.
Preheat oven at 400 degrees F. (205 C)
After dough has risen again, drop bagels in water one at a time, top side down.
Simmer for 30 seconds to one minute.
Remove and drain on lightly greased wire rack.
Grease baking sheet, place dough circles on it.
Bake 20-25 minutes or until 'golden'.
Eat them right away or freeze them before they get cold. (This is one of the best things about this recipe -- they freeze for toasting later very, very well.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:16 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
This won't get you bagels that look like the fancy glamor shots in the recipes listed above but it will get you dense, chewy, and (if my college friends, bosses, and professors are to be believed) delicious bagels. (I only ever wrote it down because I got so many requests; therefore, the existing copy was now found as a printed-off email in a binder. It's so old that my email had a sig line with an ASCII greyhound.)
(I ran the measurements through Wolfram Alpha, so apologies if they are a little off.)
---------------
1 1/8 cups hot water (265 mL)
1 tablespoon vegetable oil (13 g)
2 tablespoons sugar (24 g)
1 teaspoon salt (6 g)
3 1/3 cups bread flour (456 g)
2 teaspoons active dry yeast (8 g)
Mix all ingredients.
Kneed the dough.
Grease a large mixing bowl.
Turn dough in bowl so it is greased all over.
Cover -- let rise for one hour.
If you push finger in it and it dents, then it is ready.
No dent -- let it finish.
Kneed it some more. If it's too sticky, put more flour in it.
Press it into a rectangle. Cut into 12 strips.
Make circles out of strips.
Put them on greased backing sheet at least one inch aprt.
Take plastic wrap, spray it, cover bagels with it.
Let it rise for 20 minutes.
Meanwhile, bowl 3-4 inches (8-10 cm) of water in a 4 to 6 quart (3.785 to 5.678 liters) pot.
Preheat oven at 400 degrees F. (205 C)
After dough has risen again, drop bagels in water one at a time, top side down.
Simmer for 30 seconds to one minute.
Remove and drain on lightly greased wire rack.
Grease baking sheet, place dough circles on it.
Bake 20-25 minutes or until 'golden'.
Eat them right away or freeze them before they get cold. (This is one of the best things about this recipe -- they freeze for toasting later very, very well.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:16 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you're willing to wait until Sunday, I'll let you know. I plan to make these this weekend.
I made them today; they turned out great. (I bake a lot but have never been successful with bread-type things. Today was a success.)
posted by phunniemee at 6:00 PM on April 9, 2011
I made them today; they turned out great. (I bake a lot but have never been successful with bread-type things. Today was a success.)
posted by phunniemee at 6:00 PM on April 9, 2011
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