I want to make bagel dough, not bagel d'oh!

March 26, 2011 2:34 PM

Can I take a bagel recipe that calls for an optional 10-minute second rise and instead let the second rise go for a few hours? What about the more traditional 18-24 hours instead?

Okay, I hope this makes sense:

I want to make bagels using this recipe. The main advantage of this recipe seems to be the time-saving elimination of the second rise. Also, in my case I have a food processor but not a stand mixer, and my other trusted sources call for a mixer. (Hand-mixing or kneading will not be an option for me.) I'd really like the flexibility of getting to the bagel-forming stage (step seven) in the morning and then baking them off a few hours later. I haven't found any references to this time frame for a second rise, so my questions are:

1) Does a mid-range time for a second rise work, or is it all or nothing?

2) If "later" turned out to be the following morning, would that work with this recipe?

I've searched here, there, and everywhere google but can't find the answer to this specific question. (Part of the problem is that I'm not familiar enough with bread baking to know if bagels are the same as no-knead bread recipes or if the water stage makes them a different creature, and if the recipe would need to be adjusted for a longer second rise.)

I'm using King Arthur organic bread flour, Red Label dry active yeast and have the malt syrup for the bath, if that matters.

Oh, and if there's anything else that I should know to become a bagel maven that's appreciated, too!

posted by Room 641-A to Food & Drink (7 answers total)

Try it. throw the dough in the fridge for a slower overnight rise.
posted by SuzySmith at 2:48 PM on March 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

I would do everything up until the final bake. Put them in the fridge and in the morning take them out and bring to room temp, then bake. My food processor came with a plastic blade just for bread and that works fine.
posted by I love you more when I eat paint chips at 2:48 PM on March 26, 2011

Best answer: A full packet of yeast in 3 1/2 C flour is a lot, and will cause the dough to rise rapidly. Especially so at room temperature. One of the effects of a delay will be that the bagels will have risen more than intended. To adjust for all that extra time, you'd need to either slow the yeast's activity by doing the second rise in the refrigerator, or by reducing the amount of yeast used, or some combination of both. You definitely can't just change the rising time and leave everything else the same. Some trial and error is probably inevitable.

You say you like the idea of getting to step 7 and then waiting. As the recipe is written, step 7 includes both the second rise AND the boiling of the bagels. You mean you want to shape the bagels, but not boil them in the morning, right? Because I'm fairly certain that boiling them hours before baking would just make a mess of things.

Other potential issues with your plan:

*The shaped bagels, having risen for a long time, will be relatively soft, making them difficult to pick up and place in the boiling water. Whatever surface you use for that second rise, I'd suggest you dust it with cornmeal or semolina flour to prevent them from sticking.

*The surface of the dough is likely to dry out problematically during a long rise if it isn't covered somehow. You can slide a cookie sheet full of bagels into a clean plastic trash bag, inflate it slightly to prevent the bag from draping on the bagels, seal it with a twist tie and even put the whole thing in the refrigerator if you like.
posted by jon1270 at 5:55 PM on March 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Also, quoting myself here: "One of the effects of a delay will be that the bagels will have risen more than intended."

The problem with over-rising is that the dough will eventually get so inflated that its structure collapses; the bubbles being "blown" by the yeast will pop, and the bagels will sag into a flaccid, ruined mess. You need to manage time, temperature and the amount of yeast so that the dough has risen the right amount, but not too much, by the time you're ready to bake.
posted by jon1270 at 6:08 PM on March 26, 2011

I think Clayton's recipes haven't stood the test of time. Way too much yeast. I swear by Rose Levy Beranbaum's bagel recipe.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:05 PM on March 26, 2011

in my case I have a food processor but not a stand mixer

You cannot knead this type of bread with a food processor, and I mean cannot. Google "french fold" if you are unable to knead bread (do you have carpal tunnel or arthritis? most people should be able to knead bread).
posted by smoke at 2:18 AM on March 27, 2011

Response by poster: jon1270: "You definitely can't just change the rising time and leave everything else the same."

Okay, I'll stick to following the directions :)

Ideefixe: "I swear by Rose Levy Beranbaum's bagel recipe."

I'll try this one next!

I love you more when I eat paint chips: "My food processor came with a plastic blade just for bread and that works fine"

Mine KA has one, too, but I didn't realize I could use it unless the recipe called for it. The photos with this recipe show the metal blade, so that's what I used. It's a little confusing, but great to know I can try mixer-specific recipes, too.

smoke: "Google "french fold" if you are unable to knead bread (do you have carpal tunnel or arthritis? most people should be able to knead bread)."

Yes, I have some dexterity issues, which is why I'm sticking to the no-knead recipes until I figure out how to fit a stand mixer in my tiny kitchen.


Thanks for all the help, everyone. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go eat some home-made bagels!
posted by Room 641-A at 11:44 AM on March 27, 2011