On call, off the clock?
March 3, 2011 2:03 PM Subscribe
I work at home, entirely on the computer, and my employer wants to change the deal so I'm available at a set schedule to do work that must be done quickly, usually in less than an hour. They want to pay me only for the work I do in that time, which means I may be ready and able to work, make what maths out to less than three bucks an hour in a five-hour shift. (Long story, but it wouldn't be realistic to pursue any legal avenues that might exist.) For what it's worth, is this something y'all, friends, family members, etc., have encountered? I'm in the market for some anecdata for possible use in conversations with the employer. Thanks!
No. I have not heard of such a thing, and I know a bunch of people that work from home. And if you're making $15 bucks a day (did I read that wrong?), really, why bother.
posted by cashman at 2:08 PM on March 3, 2011
posted by cashman at 2:08 PM on March 3, 2011
If you're looking for a second opinion, your boss is nuts. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:08 PM on March 3, 2011
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:08 PM on March 3, 2011
I think the real question is "Why in heaven's name would you agree to this arrangement?"
I don't know what you're making now, but if this isn't an absolutely drastic pay cut, you're getting shafted as it is.
posted by valkyryn at 2:09 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know what you're making now, but if this isn't an absolutely drastic pay cut, you're getting shafted as it is.
posted by valkyryn at 2:09 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think you've only given us about half the information we need in order to help you.
What's the rest of the story? What kind of work are you doing? How are you notified? How do you deliver your finished product? Are you trying to change your working arrangement with the employer? I'm not clear on what you're actually trying to change, or why.
posted by Wild_Eep at 2:10 PM on March 3, 2011
What's the rest of the story? What kind of work are you doing? How are you notified? How do you deliver your finished product? Are you trying to change your working arrangement with the employer? I'm not clear on what you're actually trying to change, or why.
posted by Wild_Eep at 2:10 PM on March 3, 2011
Yea, your boss needs to realize that if he wants to pay you only for time worked, then you get to control what times those are and/or he needs to make those hours really worthwhile. If he wants you to be available to work at specified times, then he needs to pay you for those times.
posted by CathyG at 2:10 PM on March 3, 2011
posted by CathyG at 2:10 PM on March 3, 2011
I work from home (call center environment, calls get routed to my house instead of me sitting in a cube). The gap between calls can range from 0 to 30 minutes some days. If the company were to pay me for only the time I spent on the phone, I'd let advise them that they can come pick up their equipment at their convenience.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 2:11 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 2:11 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
IANAL, etc. If you are available at a set schedule, that should effectively turn you into a W-2 employee because you are working designated hours, not on your own time.
As for being on call, when I worked at the hospital, surgery had on-call during 3rd shift and weekends. For all time spent on-call, it was 1/4 time plus 2 hours pay minimum for every call-in.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:12 PM on March 3, 2011
As for being on call, when I worked at the hospital, surgery had on-call during 3rd shift and weekends. For all time spent on-call, it was 1/4 time plus 2 hours pay minimum for every call-in.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:12 PM on March 3, 2011
As a rule, if you're "on call," you either get paid for it regardless of whether you're needed, or you actually only get called in pretty rarely. (Or both)
Basically, if you're being required to be somewhere (at your computer), you should be paid for that. They wouldn't be able to get away with this if you were sitting at your desk for hours but not being tasked; they'd obviously have to pay you.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:12 PM on March 3, 2011 [4 favorites]
Basically, if you're being required to be somewhere (at your computer), you should be paid for that. They wouldn't be able to get away with this if you were sitting at your desk for hours but not being tasked; they'd obviously have to pay you.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:12 PM on March 3, 2011 [4 favorites]
You might also consider checking with a labor/employment lawyer. Some states have statutes and/or regulations that determine when or if an "on call" employee must be paid. That said, if it's a lousy deal, tell them so and find other employment. My guess is that they won't find anyone who would agree to those terms.
posted by Hylas at 2:23 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Hylas at 2:23 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
At our (large tech co. that shall remain nameless), on-call employees get a certain amount for the hours on call, plus if they have to respond to a request, there's additional "incident" pay. If you are required to be sitting by the phone and not living your life, they need to pay you for that.
posted by tuesdayschild at 2:29 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by tuesdayschild at 2:29 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
By IRS rules you are an employee [not an independant contractor] and they have to pay you for the time when you are at their call. Just because the work is sparse doesn't change that. They can require you to paint widgets then re-paint them other colors all day long while waiting for the "computer work" but they can't only pay you in tiny slices like that.
Someone needs to talk to this outfit's legal department and set them straight.
Do what the employer says; when they say = employee, done deal.
posted by Freedomboy at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Someone needs to talk to this outfit's legal department and set them straight.
Do what the employer says; when they say = employee, done deal.
posted by Freedomboy at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
If I were being engaged as a contractor, or if my firm was being engaged to provide on-call services like this, I would negotiate a retainer for being available, or a high hourly rate that reflects the ad hoc nature of the work, or a call out fee. You are being offered none of these. I can't speak to your local labour laws, but commercially there are common ways to reflect the opportunity cost to you and I don't see anything in this arrangement for you at all.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: What kind of work are you doing? How are you notified? How do you deliver your finished product? Are you trying to change your working arrangement with the employer? I'm not clear on what you're actually trying to change, or why.
For what it's worth: editing, notified via e-mail, send work via e-mail, they're trying to change the arrangement.
The employer is overseas so to the extent that labor laws apply, it would not be realistic to go down that road.
posted by ambient2 at 2:34 PM on March 3, 2011
For what it's worth: editing, notified via e-mail, send work via e-mail, they're trying to change the arrangement.
The employer is overseas so to the extent that labor laws apply, it would not be realistic to go down that road.
posted by ambient2 at 2:34 PM on March 3, 2011
I know that labor laws aren't always useful leverage even when they should legally apply, but that's almost irrelevant: This is a really shitty deal, and I wouldn't advise anyone to take it who can get any other work. I also haven't heard of this kind of arrangement in any field; I know people on-call, people who don't set their own schedule, and people who are only paid when they do work someone has for them - but never all at once.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:51 PM on March 3, 2011
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:51 PM on March 3, 2011
And from a different perspective - if you do decide to agree to this arrangement, how hard would it be to find other companies/people who need editing work done as a freelance gig where you get to set the hours? If you can find that, then you can designate the "oncall" portion of your day as work time, work on your other freelance stuff until your boss needs something, then change to that task.
This is not a great answer, but if you try negotiating for higher rate, oncall pay, callout fee, but get left with "take it or leave it" then this at least gives you an opportunity to make the best of it.
posted by CathyG at 2:57 PM on March 3, 2011
This is not a great answer, but if you try negotiating for higher rate, oncall pay, callout fee, but get left with "take it or leave it" then this at least gives you an opportunity to make the best of it.
posted by CathyG at 2:57 PM on March 3, 2011
My jaw is on the floor. Are you an editor by training?
Your rate should be several-fold what you are paid now, even if it is general editing. I would google and/or go to the library and find lists of companies (plus contact info) that do the exact same kind of work that this company does.
Tell these other companies “Dear company X, I am a freelance editor; I have experience doing X, Y, Z. Ambient2 with contact info.” Now set a rate for when they call you back, and seriously, please multiply it at least a few times if not more.
There are other types of editing that also pay much more, but you may need experience. Can you work at temp offices/arrangements (contact companies directly) and offer editing skills and get training in these other types of editing that pay a bit more?
Go onto Craigslist and offer your skills as an editor and just put your rate up there and every week or 2 weeks, put it up again. Seriously, you can probably make more in an hour than what you make from them.
I don’t know your background, but check your memail; I’ll point you towards a company that has work, although they may want fact-checking, etc. Still, the rate ends up being several-times this.
posted by Wolfster at 3:08 PM on March 3, 2011 [9 favorites]
Your rate should be several-fold what you are paid now, even if it is general editing. I would google and/or go to the library and find lists of companies (plus contact info) that do the exact same kind of work that this company does.
Tell these other companies “Dear company X, I am a freelance editor; I have experience doing X, Y, Z. Ambient2 with contact info.” Now set a rate for when they call you back, and seriously, please multiply it at least a few times if not more.
There are other types of editing that also pay much more, but you may need experience. Can you work at temp offices/arrangements (contact companies directly) and offer editing skills and get training in these other types of editing that pay a bit more?
Go onto Craigslist and offer your skills as an editor and just put your rate up there and every week or 2 weeks, put it up again. Seriously, you can probably make more in an hour than what you make from them.
I don’t know your background, but check your memail; I’ll point you towards a company that has work, although they may want fact-checking, etc. Still, the rate ends up being several-times this.
posted by Wolfster at 3:08 PM on March 3, 2011 [9 favorites]
a) what Wolfster said.
b) less than three bucks an hour in a five-hour shift—for reals? you'd be better off both time-wise and money-wise if you walked around your neighborhood talking to people with dogs and finding one or two dogs to walk, once a day for half an hour to an hour, while they're at work. lia's rule of thumb: never take a writing/editing job that pays less than you'd make picking up poop.
posted by lia at 3:36 PM on March 3, 2011 [4 favorites]
b) less than three bucks an hour in a five-hour shift—for reals? you'd be better off both time-wise and money-wise if you walked around your neighborhood talking to people with dogs and finding one or two dogs to walk, once a day for half an hour to an hour, while they're at work. lia's rule of thumb: never take a writing/editing job that pays less than you'd make picking up poop.
posted by lia at 3:36 PM on March 3, 2011 [4 favorites]
Not just no: hell no. As a full-time freelancer: that is an unreasonable request.
My standard reply to unreasonable requests is,
My standard reply to unreasonable requests is,
"I'm really sorry, but I can't afford to take this assignment. I need to make at least $X per Y, and I can't take on any contracts that bring in less than that.posted by ErikaB at 3:42 PM on March 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
However, I have enjoyed working with you in the past. Please let me know if your budget and requirements change in the future."
The employer is overseas so to the extent that labor laws apply, it would not be realistic to go down that road.
Are you actually employed, i.e. do you work for this entity and no other and does the employer fulfil their legal responsibilities as such, or are you a freelancer with only one client?
If you are in fact a freelancer you need to change your mindset drastically. You don't have an employer, you have clients to whom you sell your services. You have an hourly rate that is commensurate with a decent annual income, even if you don't work every hour in the week, and if you are offered work below this rate, you turn it down.
I'm a freelancer, and if someone is asking me to be available for five hours every day, they'd better be paying me my rate for those 5 hours, otherwise I'm not remaining available for them.
tl;dr: if you're a freelancer, get more clients; if you're not, ignore the above (but do find a new "employer").
posted by altolinguistic at 4:54 AM on March 4, 2011
Are you actually employed, i.e. do you work for this entity and no other and does the employer fulfil their legal responsibilities as such, or are you a freelancer with only one client?
If you are in fact a freelancer you need to change your mindset drastically. You don't have an employer, you have clients to whom you sell your services. You have an hourly rate that is commensurate with a decent annual income, even if you don't work every hour in the week, and if you are offered work below this rate, you turn it down.
I'm a freelancer, and if someone is asking me to be available for five hours every day, they'd better be paying me my rate for those 5 hours, otherwise I'm not remaining available for them.
tl;dr: if you're a freelancer, get more clients; if you're not, ignore the above (but do find a new "employer").
posted by altolinguistic at 4:54 AM on March 4, 2011
Sounds like you are about to be screwed. Sorry
Risk should be balanced against reward. If they are taking away the security and increasing the risk, the reward should increase proportionally.
posted by jannw at 7:09 AM on March 4, 2011
Risk should be balanced against reward. If they are taking away the security and increasing the risk, the reward should increase proportionally.
posted by jannw at 7:09 AM on March 4, 2011
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Later companies have never heard of such a thing :-(
posted by CathyG at 2:07 PM on March 3, 2011