It's my sink and I'll move it if I want to.
February 17, 2011 12:50 PM Subscribe
I have a sink in my basement I would like to relocate. I would like to do this with a minimum amount of plumbing. I shall explain my intentions with a few pictures and way too many words inside.
First off, I am aware of the potential dangers of DIY plumbing or otherwise mucking about with pipes and water and whatnot. Should I at any time feel like I'm in over my head I will call a professional. I'm pretty sure I can pull this one off though.
This is the sink in question. I would like to move it around the corner to the left of that lally column.
I know the absolute right way to do this would be to re-route the supply pipes along the ceiling and then have them drop neatly down the wall behind the sink, much like they are now.
The problem is, there are shutoff valves behind the sink, as shown here. If I re-plumb anything before those valves (like I would have to do if I do this the right way) I would have to shut off the water to the entire house as the next nearest shutoffs are where the cold water comes into the house, with another one right before the hot water heater. As the suggested curing time for PVC glue is 24 hours, this would be sorta inconvenient for me and my family.
So, to keep this simple, because I'm only moving the sink a few feet, I would like to re-plumb only from those valves.
Question 1: See those flexible supply lines going from the valve to the faucet? Is there any reason I can't, say, find a couple longer ones (3-4 feet) and just use those instead of piping it with CPVC?
Question 2: If the answer to 1 is "no, that would be stupid", then I have to pipe it with CPVC. Would all the correct threaded fittings be readily available at Home Depot or would I need to go to a plumbing supply store?
Question 3: Are those flexible supply lines sold as-is (with fittings on either end) in different lengths or do I need to build them myself with a length of hose and some sort of crimpy thingies and specialized crimping tools?
Question 4: Is there another way to do this that I haven't thought of?
A couple of things:
I've done a small bit of PEX (in another house), and I liked it, but I needed a specialized tube spreader thingy to install it and I'd prefer not to buy or rent anything special. I would if that's the best way.
I'm not so worried about the drain, as that's not under pressure and it's just a matter of extending and re-routing the pipe. I'll leave the pump where it is so I don't have to re-route the drain and vent.
The shut off valves will no longer be protected by the sink. I'll build something to protect them so they don't get knocked around.
There is storage space behind that wall. I can route any pipes through there.
This is a rarely-used sink, it is not used for laundry, and I can live without it for a while if I need to.
Oh, and I'm the idiot who told the builders to put it where it currently is. Don't ask.
First off, I am aware of the potential dangers of DIY plumbing or otherwise mucking about with pipes and water and whatnot. Should I at any time feel like I'm in over my head I will call a professional. I'm pretty sure I can pull this one off though.
This is the sink in question. I would like to move it around the corner to the left of that lally column.
I know the absolute right way to do this would be to re-route the supply pipes along the ceiling and then have them drop neatly down the wall behind the sink, much like they are now.
The problem is, there are shutoff valves behind the sink, as shown here. If I re-plumb anything before those valves (like I would have to do if I do this the right way) I would have to shut off the water to the entire house as the next nearest shutoffs are where the cold water comes into the house, with another one right before the hot water heater. As the suggested curing time for PVC glue is 24 hours, this would be sorta inconvenient for me and my family.
So, to keep this simple, because I'm only moving the sink a few feet, I would like to re-plumb only from those valves.
Question 1: See those flexible supply lines going from the valve to the faucet? Is there any reason I can't, say, find a couple longer ones (3-4 feet) and just use those instead of piping it with CPVC?
Question 2: If the answer to 1 is "no, that would be stupid", then I have to pipe it with CPVC. Would all the correct threaded fittings be readily available at Home Depot or would I need to go to a plumbing supply store?
Question 3: Are those flexible supply lines sold as-is (with fittings on either end) in different lengths or do I need to build them myself with a length of hose and some sort of crimpy thingies and specialized crimping tools?
Question 4: Is there another way to do this that I haven't thought of?
A couple of things:
I've done a small bit of PEX (in another house), and I liked it, but I needed a specialized tube spreader thingy to install it and I'd prefer not to buy or rent anything special. I would if that's the best way.
I'm not so worried about the drain, as that's not under pressure and it's just a matter of extending and re-routing the pipe. I'll leave the pump where it is so I don't have to re-route the drain and vent.
The shut off valves will no longer be protected by the sink. I'll build something to protect them so they don't get knocked around.
There is storage space behind that wall. I can route any pipes through there.
This is a rarely-used sink, it is not used for laundry, and I can live without it for a while if I need to.
Oh, and I'm the idiot who told the builders to put it where it currently is. Don't ask.
Best answer: “No that would be stupid”. Come off the supplies in the ceiling with a Tee and down the wall behind the sink. They’ll have everything you need at the HD. That way you can reuse the valves and supply lines to the faucet.
One thing you might do is put two shut offs somewhere in the basement ceiling placed so you can do other jobs without having to shut the whole house down. See if you can find a shut off that joins to the pipe mechanically without cement. Then you can take your time moving the sink. They’ll know what’s available at the HD. If you have to cement shut offs in, maybe you could do the ones in the ceiling just before you were going overnight someplace.
It's hard to get everything right when having a house built with so many decisions to make, so I wouldn't say you're an idiot for that.
posted by PaulBGoode at 1:38 PM on February 17, 2011
One thing you might do is put two shut offs somewhere in the basement ceiling placed so you can do other jobs without having to shut the whole house down. See if you can find a shut off that joins to the pipe mechanically without cement. Then you can take your time moving the sink. They’ll know what’s available at the HD. If you have to cement shut offs in, maybe you could do the ones in the ceiling just before you were going overnight someplace.
It's hard to get everything right when having a house built with so many decisions to make, so I wouldn't say you're an idiot for that.
posted by PaulBGoode at 1:38 PM on February 17, 2011
Best answer: 1) you can, but its' dumb and isn't even remotely code.
2) The valves should be compression on to the cpvc.
3) depends on the store.
4) curing time of 24 hours is ridiculous. Take a shower and a shit, keep a bucket of water for a couple flushes, send the family out, shut off the water, cut in some valves up high, then start piping after those valves. Turn on the water again after an hour or two; once things get dire. Maybe keep the water pressure down if you've got a PRV. Pipe happily downstream of the valves and let it set up till next Tuesday or whenever.
posted by notsnot at 1:54 PM on February 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
2) The valves should be compression on to the cpvc.
3) depends on the store.
4) curing time of 24 hours is ridiculous. Take a shower and a shit, keep a bucket of water for a couple flushes, send the family out, shut off the water, cut in some valves up high, then start piping after those valves. Turn on the water again after an hour or two; once things get dire. Maybe keep the water pressure down if you've got a PRV. Pipe happily downstream of the valves and let it set up till next Tuesday or whenever.
posted by notsnot at 1:54 PM on February 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: the suggested curing time for PVC glue is 24 hours, this would be sorta inconvenient for me and my family.
Take the time to look into this more carefully. I just looked up the spec sheet for one brand of PVC solvent, and it indicated that joints can tolerate 180 PSI (about 3X your likely household pressure) after 2 hours IF the ambient temperature is above 60 degrees. Keep in mind that the 24 hour recommendation is aimed at worst-case scenarios, i.e. temps around 40F.
You can do it the right way and it won't be a major inconvenience. Don't Mickey Mouse it.
posted by jon1270 at 1:55 PM on February 17, 2011
Take the time to look into this more carefully. I just looked up the spec sheet for one brand of PVC solvent, and it indicated that joints can tolerate 180 PSI (about 3X your likely household pressure) after 2 hours IF the ambient temperature is above 60 degrees. Keep in mind that the 24 hour recommendation is aimed at worst-case scenarios, i.e. temps around 40F.
You can do it the right way and it won't be a major inconvenience. Don't Mickey Mouse it.
posted by jon1270 at 1:55 PM on February 17, 2011
You can get the pre-crimped supply lines in rather long lengths, you should be able to get lines that are long enough for you application.
I understand the sentiment expressed above about "doing it right", but I wanted to tell you that there really isn't anything inherently wrong with what you are looking to do. The lines would reach and attach just fine and the sink would function properly.
Just make sure that you protect the lines in some way - attach a cupboard or something in front of where the valves are - I'd drill holes through the studs to feed the lines in behind your steel column as well.
posted by davey_darling at 2:16 PM on February 17, 2011
I understand the sentiment expressed above about "doing it right", but I wanted to tell you that there really isn't anything inherently wrong with what you are looking to do. The lines would reach and attach just fine and the sink would function properly.
Just make sure that you protect the lines in some way - attach a cupboard or something in front of where the valves are - I'd drill holes through the studs to feed the lines in behind your steel column as well.
posted by davey_darling at 2:16 PM on February 17, 2011
Best answer: In addition to what jon1270 said once the glue has set up (say 20 minutes) you can speed a full cure along with a hair dryer.
However if it was me I'd install a set of valves like notsnot suggested just on a Friday night. Turn off the water after the kids go to bed and the joints will be good to go when you turn on the water first thing in the morning. Then you can mess with the rest of the plumbing at your leisure. And if you get in to trouble you have all day Saturday to make runs to local home improvement Borg.
davey_darling writes "Just make sure that you protect the lines in some way - attach a cupboard or something in front of where the valves are - I'd drill holes through the studs to feed the lines in behind your steel column as well."
Those flexible lines aren't legal if concealed.
posted by Mitheral at 3:43 PM on February 17, 2011
However if it was me I'd install a set of valves like notsnot suggested just on a Friday night. Turn off the water after the kids go to bed and the joints will be good to go when you turn on the water first thing in the morning. Then you can mess with the rest of the plumbing at your leisure. And if you get in to trouble you have all day Saturday to make runs to local home improvement Borg.
davey_darling writes "Just make sure that you protect the lines in some way - attach a cupboard or something in front of where the valves are - I'd drill holes through the studs to feed the lines in behind your steel column as well."
Those flexible lines aren't legal if concealed.
posted by Mitheral at 3:43 PM on February 17, 2011
Just hire a plumber! $60.00 an hour plus the cost of the parts. So maybe $200-$300 total. Home plumbing is tricky, hire an expert and it will be done right. Instead of spending 8 hours working and still having drips go build something with Lego, learn a new song on your banjo, or read a book.
posted by JohntheContrarian at 8:15 PM on February 17, 2011
posted by JohntheContrarian at 8:15 PM on February 17, 2011
Response by poster: Success!
Thank to all who encouraged me to do it the "Right" way. The little voice inside my head agreed with you so I decided to plumb it up with CPVC.
I ended up using Sharkbite valves, which seemed way too good to be true but I read up on them and people had mostly good things to say about them. I bought a couple and they're working great. I shut off the house water, cut the pipes, snapped the valves on, and had the water back on in five minutes. From there I was able to take my time plumbing it up through the storage space with no fear of leaving my family without water.
Just hire a plumber! $60.00 an hour plus the cost of the parts. So maybe $200-$300 total. Home plumbing is tricky, hire an expert and it will be done right. Instead of spending 8 hours working and still having drips
Maybe $40.00 worth of parts and cement and about four hours on a Sunday morning. All that time is now chalked up as a learning experience so next time it'll be that much easier. Not one drip in the whole process.
Now I can kick back with a book, enjoying that great feeling of having accomplished something I can be proud of. Plus, there's the satisfaction of once again proving myself infinitely more capable than my know-it-all older brother. :-)
posted by bondcliff at 2:24 PM on February 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Thank to all who encouraged me to do it the "Right" way. The little voice inside my head agreed with you so I decided to plumb it up with CPVC.
I ended up using Sharkbite valves, which seemed way too good to be true but I read up on them and people had mostly good things to say about them. I bought a couple and they're working great. I shut off the house water, cut the pipes, snapped the valves on, and had the water back on in five minutes. From there I was able to take my time plumbing it up through the storage space with no fear of leaving my family without water.
Just hire a plumber! $60.00 an hour plus the cost of the parts. So maybe $200-$300 total. Home plumbing is tricky, hire an expert and it will be done right. Instead of spending 8 hours working and still having drips
Maybe $40.00 worth of parts and cement and about four hours on a Sunday morning. All that time is now chalked up as a learning experience so next time it'll be that much easier. Not one drip in the whole process.
Now I can kick back with a book, enjoying that great feeling of having accomplished something I can be proud of. Plus, there's the satisfaction of once again proving myself infinitely more capable than my know-it-all older brother. :-)
posted by bondcliff at 2:24 PM on February 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by geoff. at 1:27 PM on February 17, 2011