So what's like in an area of Germany with large American military bases?

January 25, 2011 6:22 PM

How are the relationships between the American military personnel and the local population in Germany?

I'm very surprised to learn that the United States still has 57,000 soldiers in Germany. I want to know how do the local German population view those soldiers. I'm interested in this question because from what I understand most of the area with large American military presence usually provoke very hostile reactions from the locals (e.g. Okinawa, South Korea).

So what's like in an area of Germany with large American military bases?

More amicable relationship or equally hostile like Okinawa?

posted by Carius to society & culture (17 answers total)

what I understand most of the area with large American military presence usually provoke very hostile reactions from the locals

i think this is a false notion. i've had many friends and family stationed overseas in a variety of different places and they mostly speak about friendships and such formed with the locals. for a lot of long standing bases, it's just part of the landscape, like a factory. you might rather the pollution (aka the military complex) not be there, but you don't much mind the jobs it brings...
posted by nadawi at 6:25 PM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

My friends who've been stationed in Germany have reported only positive experiences. One found a wife there. I think its probably a pretty agreeable relationship over there.
posted by blaneyphoto at 6:41 PM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

As a teenager, I lived in Germany for one full year, living with German relatives and attending a German high school and generally immersing myself. This was in a small town near Kaiserslautern, where the US has a large military base.

I was just a young teen, so hardly tuned in to these things, but I did pick up on some animosity. My classmates would jokingly say to me "Ami go home" -- American go home. Truth is, like kids in the US, they were likely just parroting opinions they had picked up from adults. It made me aware of the military presence that I otherwise was oblivious to.

This may / probably has little relevance to how the locals feel now, 30 years later.
posted by intermod at 6:46 PM on January 25, 2011

My notion could be very wrong that's why I'm asking this question.

I'm basing this question on what I know about Okinawa. Where the majority of Okinawans oppose the presence of American military bases. What I know don't know is, is this the norm all over the oversea American military bases?
posted by Carius at 6:47 PM on January 25, 2011

German here - I'd say very amicable relationships. Americans are perceived as interesting and are welcome in all parts of society. There might be some pockets of anti-americanism, but the general population is fascinated with the US and its culture and generally friendly towards "Amis". There are many binational relationships/marriages which are completely accepted (coveted, even). This doesn't mean everyone approves of US foreign or interior policy, though. Some ribbing about American clichés like obesity, handguns, death penalty and lack of education is to be expected, but is mostly good-natured.

Some Germans (mainly academics and liberal city dwellers) may oppose the idea of American bases on abstract political grounds - this does however not translate to discrimination of American citizens stationed here. American bases are very welcome in the (mostly semi-rural) communities they are connected to because they provide many jobs and amenities.
posted by The Toad at 6:54 PM on January 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

My "uncle" (I think he really is my mother's second cousin or something) was in the Air Force and was stationed at the Rhein-Main Air Base (now closed). He and his wife (also AF) lived off base, and had great relationships with their neighbors. They were also friends with a fellow who owned a vineyard where I took a visit--it wasn't just their neighbors that they were close with.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:00 PM on January 25, 2011

i don't even think it's the norm all over japan. i've had a handful of friends come back from deployments in japan over the last few years and again, only glowing things to say about the country and the locals and the friendships they made while there.
posted by nadawi at 7:04 PM on January 25, 2011

As a data point: I grew up in a German neighborhood in the 80s and 90s as the daughter of an American soldier (we lived off-base). The locals were our friends, and there was no animosity towards us. I never even picked up on a little, but it's possibly I was naive to this sort of thing.
posted by Laura Macbeth at 7:10 PM on January 25, 2011

In 1990 or 91, I was vacationing in Mannheim (town of my birth) from Florida where I was raised. I had made friends with some locals and we were hanging out. There were groups of people here and there with a particularly loud group down the street. At some point, from that group down the street came the sound of breaking glass and raucous laughter. I looked over to see drunken loud US Army fatigue clad guys. My German friend said under his breath "Fucking Army assholes." I imagine it was less about the US army and more about drunken american assholes traveling in packs.
posted by Jezebella at 7:14 PM on January 25, 2011 [2 favorites]

I internet-know a Canadian woman who married a German man and has been living for many years in a town in Germany near a military base. She seems to indicate animosity among the populace, but she's a very complainey lass in general. For the most part what seems according to her to bother the citizenry is exactly what you would expect if you've ever lived in a college town or a tourist town. The soldiers are mostly young, kind of arrogant (as often comes with youth), and essentially treat the town as disposable. They're not going to be living there for very long, so they don't bother to give back to the community or learn the social rules. They just drink and act like they run the place, and then get replaced by a new wave as soon as maturity threatens to hit (and tours of duty are finished). Again, an awful lot like a college town.

I suspect that it's not really a big deal to most people, however. This woman will complain about *anything*.
posted by Because at 7:34 PM on January 25, 2011

Carius, I don't think that Okinawa is any kind of an indicator. There are a couple of reasons why Okinawans dislike the American presence there. Primarily Okinawa is like a provincial state and the residents feel "put upon" because they have to accommodate the Americans to appease the Japanese Government. Secondly, if I recall correctly, there was a case of rape not too long ago in which a U.S. Marine raped a young girl and the following proceedings were scandalous. FWIW my wife spent a couple of years there was received very respectfully.

Personally, I've been to most of the U.S. bases in Europe and S.W. Asia/middle east and have always had a great time meeting and having fun with locals. In my experience, that I'm very grateful for having, I've found that most of the time people have open hearts and open minds. I'm very much looking forward to traveling again, this time with my kids.
posted by snsranch at 7:53 PM on January 25, 2011

I have a family member whom has been stationed with the Air Force in Stuttgart for over 8 years. She's got great friends in her German neighbors, a long term German boyfriend, and her office interfaces with German military.

I think some of the sentiment that Because talks of exists, but she's not some young frat-boy-esque person. She's coming on 40, she's settled into the community and lives off base. If nothing else the locals appreciate the business they bring to the area, like her landlord.
posted by fontophilic at 8:11 PM on January 25, 2011

Can't speak to it now, but when I was a kid in Germany at various points of the 70s and early 80s (Zweibrucken, Spangdahlem, Hahn, Ramstein/Vogelweh) there was no animosity.

I can remember, vaguely, a farmer on the other side of the fence at Spang or Zwiebrucken who'd lob candy over the fence, and I can remember host-nation field trips from Hahn to the local farmers market where all the old German ladies running stalls would just smile and slip us extra whatevers, and the family across the street when we lived on the economy who called us over to watch their... horse? cow? can't remember now... give birth.

I wonder if part of the difference is the demographics of the people stationed in Okinawa and in Germany. Not to pick on the Corps, but they do have a reputation for rowdier and rougher conduct. And I wouldn't be surprised if the average serviceman stationed in Germany was a little bit older, more likely to have a family, and otherwise be a little more settled down than your stereotypical sailor/marine out on liberty. Not that there weren't still 19 year old pinheads, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were relatively fewer.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:15 PM on January 25, 2011

I lived near an American military base in Germany for a few years. My experience was that the little kids loved the soldiers, partly because they were seen as cool, and spoke English, and gave out candy (mainly because of the latter, probably). Teenagers mainly admired them. Quite a few of the middle aged and older people disliked them, and there was a perception that the soldiers were loud and aggressive, and acted like they owned the place. I observed a couple of situations on the local trains where soldiers got angry at conductors for misunderstanding them (when speaking English), or for telling them off for being too loud or putting their feet on the seats or whatever, and lots of little old ladies muttered about how the American military think they are too good to learn German or obey rules.

But then little old ladies in Germany often have that sort of belief about anyone younger than them, so maybe it's not just the military!
posted by lollusc at 8:20 PM on January 25, 2011

Where I live, it's generally like lollusc says - they're tolerated as part of the landscape, but they're also commonly perceived as being dumb, loud, aggressive assholes who can't be bothered to learn German and who can't handle their alcohol. It doesn't help that every single soldier I've met here has lived up to that stereotype and then some.

But at the same time, the bases are welcomed (and fusses are made when they're closed) because of the money they bring into the local economy, and I've only felt hostility directed at me personally as a non-military American a few times.
posted by cmonkey at 12:45 AM on January 26, 2011

One of my brothers was in the Army. He was based both in Germany and Korea and had nothing but good things to say about either place.

He did end up with both a German wife and a Korean wife, at different times of course.
posted by deborah at 8:04 PM on January 26, 2011

Back during the Cold War there was some grumbling in Germany. Berlin was still a city occupied by the Four Powers, and there were closer to 250,000 US troops in West Germany, primarily at a high state of readiness in case of a Soviet ground offensive. This was the 99 Luftballoons era, mind you. But actual open opposition to the US presence was very limited. At the very end, when German sentiment for reunification was strong, there were some protests. According to a couple of other sources, landlords might refuse to rent to Americans, or restaurants to serve them. This was, to some extent, more of a political left thing than an anti-American per se thing.

I really think you have to look at each individual situation and how it arose and how it politically continues. Nowadays, Germans might be more irked at Americans for still being there despite the "end" of the Cold War. South Korea is obviously a place on a hair-trigger, especially now that the North has nukes. Okinawa is a place where an ethnic minority has concerns about sovereignty with its country (Okinawans are more like a Chinese-Polynesian population than Japanese, if I recall correctly), and where a very high percentage of the region has been given over to US defense installations. The presence is inescapable. They have also had serious concerns over prejudice by Americans and something like sex tourism by American troops, who for a long time faced no penalties under Japanese law, and at best only minor penalties under the UCMJ. These are flashpoints.

Other places where we have bases might simply be more discreet, or have more local support. Or they may operate under rules that make sure there is no friction with the population. Or the national government may have so much control that protest is simply out of the question. The Gulf State bases (e.g. Doha, Qatar) fall under all four of these, and similarly our Afghan supply bases in Central Asia.

Others may simply be too remote to have serious political ramifications. The US essentially occupies the entirety of Diego Garcia, after the UK summarily evicted its entire resident population decades ago -- people who now, themselves or their descendants, are fighting to return. But they live on an island state of India and have few political rights, so it isn't such a big deal for the American base. No protests at the gate to get on TV.

Ultimately, the answer is that Okinawa and S. Korea have a lot of democracy and media freedom, making them politically problematic because even a small number of protesters can get a lot of attention.
posted by dhartung at 12:03 AM on January 27, 2011 [1 favorite]