How to feed my baby when I'm doped to the gills?
December 13, 2010 1:35 PM   Subscribe

I'm having a minor medical procedure performed tomorrow. I'm to be given a number of painkilling drugs for the duration. Complication: I'm breastfeeding and kiddo hasn't ever taken a bottle.

I have an appointment tomorrow to have Essure implants placed. This is a sterilization procedure performed in the doctor's office where they dilate my cervix a little bit to place two implants in my fallopian tubes. I've been told the whole process takes around 2 hours and has minimal downtime afterwards (aside from sleeping off the drugs).

My infant daughter is 10 weeks old and has been exclusively breastfed. When I had the pre-op appointment, my OB/GYN told me I should plan on pumping and dumping one feeding following the procedure. When I talked to her nurse she seemed less certain and suggested I dump 2 feedings. I asked for a list of the meds I would be given so that I could check with babynublet's pediatrician.

The pediatrician's nurse called me today and said that I should plan on refraining for at least 12 hours and if baby gets sleepy after a trial feed, to wait 24 hours. This is now 3 different sets of info I've been given so I'm looking to expand my sample size. I'm probably more skeptical of the pediatric nurse out of the three, since she wasn't familiar with the drugs, had to look up all of them, and for one she'd never heard of she merely commented "but I know it's GOT to be contraindicated".

I did ask if maybe I should just reschedule the procedure and she said she didn't think that would be necessary as people have surgery all the time when they're breastfeeding.

This is the list of meds:
* Norco 10/325
* Valium 10 mg
* Torodol 60 mg IM
* B&O (Belladonna and Opium) suppository (i don't know the dosage)

These are ALL the drugs I will receive. I've been told there is no need for ongoing pain management afterward that ibuprofen won't be able to handle.

Baby is being introduced to a bottle but is not getting it. She'll hold it in her mouth and chew at it but doesn't really drink anything. I know if it comes down to it we can probably finger feed her (we have all the tools for that) or cup feed her, although we've not tried either of those just yet. we've also been practicing with formula since I don't want to waste my milk stash, although we will be using the milk tomorrow in the hopes that will provide some motivation (or remove any aversion to formula as a reason for refusals).

We *could* put off the procedure (if I notify them by the end of today as I'm scheduled in the morning), but the reality is that I have to go back to work 2 days a week next month, so we've got to get this bottle thing figured out anyway. The sooner the better.

So I guess I have 2 questions:

1) Is anyone familiar with this particular mix of drugs to know how long I should refrain from breastfeeding afterwards?

2) Tricks and strategies for bottle/cup/eyedropper feeding a baby? It would be miserable, but not the end of the world if I can't feed her for 12 hours. But if the consensus is to not feed her for 24 hours I can't just let her not eat. Failproof tricks particularly appreciated.
posted by lilnublet to Health & Fitness (19 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
are you trying to bottle feed her? you might have someone else do it. she smells dinner on you and might be far less inclined to go for the bottle if she knows what she's used to is right there, she just has has to get to it. this used to come up a lot at the portrait studio - we'd have to kick moms out of the room if it was too close to feeding time and she wanted us to get the shot anyway.

absolutely try the breast milk.

what sort of bottle do you have? have you considered trying a different nipple? are the bottle nipples cold? you might try warming them in your (clean) hands before.

and, not that it'll help your going back to work problem - but for the immediate fix, they do make harnesses for dads to wear that hold the bottle, but still has the baby in the same breastfeeding position.
posted by nadawi at 1:53 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


When my baby was ten days old I had to be put under. The cocktail of drugs was different, but the same general idea (short-acting sedatives). Like you, I was worried about the drugs passing into my milk and was given a bunch of different answers. As a nurse and paranoid new parent, I elected to pump and dump once and then just breastfeed as usual.

Whether drugs pass into milk, and in what quantity, is a notoriously difficult question to answer, so basically the assumption is that anything they're giving you *might* make its way into the baby's body, and that this will be ok. In other words, if it had ever been demonstrated that a baby was harmed from drinking milk after his/her mother took those meds, you wouldn't be advised to pump and dump; you would not be given the meds at all. I was told that the worst case scenario was that my baby would ingest a trace of the drugs and get drowsy as a result. I didn't notice any such effect, but then again he was ten *days* old so he was pretty much always drowsy.

Your best bet is to have a few bottles of pumped milk stored away so baby can have what she needs during and immediately after your procedure, and then go with your gut after that. I can't advise you on how many times to pump and dump, but like I said, I did so only once after I woke up and then breastfed as usual.
posted by tetralix at 1:59 PM on December 13, 2010


That is a lot of drugs and a young baby. You really don't want a one-size-fits-all assessment of this; I would call Motherisk line, 416-813-6780. They will be able to take into account your daughter's age and all the different drugs, and can give quite detailed info (peaks at X hours, gone in X hours, X% actually transfers; we consider/do not consider it safe)

You can also peek at info on Lactmed, and infantrisk.org, but I would really go with Motherisk for a combo like that. Note their "for professionals" services; they will be able to advise your confused physicians as well. You may find that a drug on your list has a better alternative that would serve the same function yet be safer for your baby -- certainly there are better benzodiazepines and it is hard to imagine that the Toradol could not be replaced with something more breastfeeding-friendly. (Note the alternate drugs to consider part of the Lactmed pages.)

Pumping and dumping will not speed elimination of the drugs; if anybody suggests you pump for any reason other than to maintain your supply/relieve engorgement, take it as a red flag vis-a-vis their drugs-and-nursing knowledge. If baby gets sleepy after a trial feed...what? Of course your ten-week-old is going to get sleepy after nursing; this is ridiculous, terrible advice and I think it's safe to assume that the office has little useful information to offer you. And it seems bizarre that an obstetrical practice is not totally on top of this. Is seeing another practitioner an option?

Personally, I would seek to bypass the bottles altogether; also the formula -- there are advantages to exclusive breastmilk feeding -- two days a month? In another month? That would be a few days of cup-feeding and then she can go onto solids when you're not around. Useful What to Feed the Baby When the Mother is Working Outside the Home
posted by kmennie at 2:00 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


Why don't you move this procedure? It sounds like an elective, non-urgent procedure. Is it?
posted by zia at 2:10 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]


I would absolutely suggest putting breastmilk in the bottle, and having someone who isn't you give the baby the bottle. My daughter wouldn't take a bottle if I was in the HOUSE, but if I was gone, she would take one quite happily. A friend's daughter, whom I cross-nursed, would take bottles happily from her father and her aunt but not from me.

kmennie, three or four months old is too young to have solids for anything other than experimentation and practice. I'd be uncomfortable telling relying on non-infant-specific foods for a full workday at that age.
posted by KathrynT at 2:20 PM on December 13, 2010


OP, you may be interested in some feedback on Essure. There seem to be some complications.
posted by zia at 2:27 PM on December 13, 2010


Oops, somehow read "go back to work 2 days a week next month" as "go back to work 2 days a month"
posted by kmennie at 2:48 PM on December 13, 2010


If you have the opportunity to postpone the procedure, that is worth trying. Then you can call Motherisk.

When my baby was very young, I needed to have multiple procedures. I pumped for bottles, but my baby had NEVER taken a bottle and wouldn't take one from me, her dad or anyone else. This was very stressful and I was so worried about how it would affect breastfeeding and so on. So I contacted Patient Relations at my hospital and asked for help. They created a plan for making sure I was ONLY given safe medications. They had a pump in the recovery room so I could pump and dump. (Meds were safe, but they still wanted to be extra safe and this also allowed me to keep up supply.) They had a plan for how soon I could have my baby with me. And my mom gave the baby a bottle. After he had refused it all the times before, the lil guy decided, yup, if I can't have Mom, then this will do after all! If your baby really won't take a bottle, you can use little paper cups -- the kinds they give pills in. My brother fed his hours-old baby with those when there were some latching challenges.

BTW, a copper IUD is pretty safe and can be installed in minutes while your baby is sleeping in the stroller beside you. At least, that's what worked for me. Then you can roll out other techniques, like this implants, later.

If you have to go back to work 2 days a month, perhaps you could also look at whether it is possible for someone to bring your baby to you to eat. This might not be workable. (Here in Canada, they have to accommodate breastfeeding.) But if you nursed right before work, had someone bring baby to you half way, and then right again after work, maybe someone would only need to give baby little snacks with a cup or bottle in between. Perhaps you've thought this through -- I support your choice and am only offering up some ideas. When I went back to work one night a week (albeit not for an entire day), this was how I managed it - nursing before and after. Of course, your little one is still small and may still be nursing for 45 minutes or something, so perhaps that isn't an option.

It's obvious you really care about your choices and how they affect your baby and I think you should know that that's what's really going to matter and what will ensure your babe is okay.
posted by acoutu at 3:29 PM on December 13, 2010


BTW, what Motherisk & the Canadian authorities and my community health nurse worked out was that, for a general or sedation, they should just give you the same medications as for a C-section. If your baby is safe during labour / birth with those medications, then they most certainly should NOT be at more risk when they are 10 weeks old!

And, right, the pump and dump thing for getting rid of toxins is very sketchy and it has more to do with a lack of knowledge by the medical staff. It's more about maintaining supply. And managed your own concerns, too, since if you are stressed to the max about it, it's worth pump and dumping. But meds that are safe for C-section should be safe anytime!
posted by acoutu at 3:32 PM on December 13, 2010


At this medical procedure, there will be doctors? They may have insight as to the wisdom of undergoing the procedure.

Cliffs: Ask someone who went to medical school and is paid for their medical expertise, not internet people who didn't go to medical school.
posted by dougrayrankin at 3:47 PM on December 13, 2010


OP Please check your mefi mail
posted by zia at 3:51 PM on December 13, 2010


Response by poster: I have just called and canceled the procedure. I'm not comfortable with the drugs, the risks, or the feeding situation and since it is not essential to have it done right this second, I'm going to hold off. In the meantime I'm going to do more research into my options. I had read about some people having terrible complications, but took them with a grain of salt. After all horror stories are easy to find on the internet. I don't think taking time to do more research is a terrible thing though, especially in light of the other considerations.

Thanks for the thoughts - feel free to continue suggestions for transitioning to occasional bottle feeding of expressed milk. I am going to be working two days a week for sure (I must have phrased that awkwardly in the OP?) and may be on call other days so it really is imperative to get this girl on an artificial nipple.
posted by lilnublet at 3:51 PM on December 13, 2010


Response by poster: @dougrayrankin: I'm sure that your careful reading of the OP revealed to you that I asked three different medical professionals. The fact that I received three different answers prompted mt to ask for personal experiences. Rest assured, however, the altitude of your high horse has been duly noted.
posted by lilnublet at 3:57 PM on December 13, 2010 [7 favorites]


I am at work right now, but at home I have a copy of Hale's, which is a book version of the awesome-sounding Motherisk helpline kmennie suggested. I will look up those meds for you tonight, and post the results. Usually Hale's will specify associated risks for each med, what the half life is, and any preferred alternatives. I realise that you have already canceled, but I will post in case you choose to reschedule, so you can go in armed with more knowledge of those meds, and can request specific alternative meds if necessary.

Off the top of my head, I vaguely remember that Xanax is the suggested alternative to Valium, as I requested that change when I had dental surgery done post-partum. But don't quote me on that, I'm going from memory. Most medical professionals are quick to suggest pump and dump, or worse "stop breastfeeding" because they have no idea of the risks to breastfeeding, and frankly they are probably practising CYA medicine in that case, and I can't blame them. But usually they are very open to prescribing alternatives if you request them.
posted by Joh at 4:32 PM on December 13, 2010


Not sure what you're trying bottle-nipple-wise, but my infant had a much easier time with the fat nuk orthodontic bottle (like this), which has a wide base more like a breast so his "flanged" lips felt more normal to him, and has a shaped nipple that he had a MUCH easier time sucking on.

Once he got the idea with the nuk orthodontic bottle & nipple (we only had one), he was able to move on to "plain" smaller round nipples without a problem (which we had a ton of). I don't really recall how we ended up with the bottle assortment we had, but probably because of what came with my pump. We bought the nuk orthodontic in desperation.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:30 PM on December 13, 2010


My daughter, when she was quite young (a couple of months?) decided that she Did Not Like Bottles. She was primarily breastfed and had been taking the occasional bottle fairly happily, and then she just stopped.

I tried other nipple shapes, I tried sippy cups, and then I tried...a cup with a straw. Like those toddler cups that you can buy where there's a soft plastic straw attached. Presented with a cup and a straw, she'd happily down a serving of milk and go on with her day.

This may not be the ideal situation--I have no idea if the straws could be damaging in some way, for example, and it's certainly less *cute* than having a child nursing or drinking from a bottle, but it worked well for us. The cups can be had for $3 at most supermarkets--if you're really worried, it might be worth a shot.
posted by MeghanC at 8:30 PM on December 13, 2010


Hale's rates risk factors L1 (safest) to L5 (contraindicated).

* Norco 10/325 (this is hydrocodone and acetaminophen). L3, generally suggested that 5mg every 4 hours has minimal affect on nurslings, particularly older infants. Watch for sedation or constipation. Half life - 3.8 hours. Alternatives - codeine (same risk level of L3, but this is better studied in infants, is still considered fairly low risk, and has a shorter half life of 2.9 hours)

* Valium 10 mg (Diazepam). L3, has variable effects on infants, but has an extremely long half life of 43 hours, making it not ideal for use in nursing mothers, definitely not recommended for long term use, but may be OK for short term usage. Alternatives - Lorazepam or Aprazolam, which are shorter-acting benzos with half lifes of 12-15 hours.

* Toradol 60 mg IM. L2, considered generally safe for nurslings, half life of 2.4-8.6 hours. Alternatives - Ibuprofen.

* B&O (Belladonna and Opium) suppository (i don't know the dosage). Belladonna is Atropine, considred L3, "avoid if possible but definitely not contraindicated". Half life of 4.3 hours, no alternatives suggested. Opium I can't find any specific info for, but it is generally cautioned.

The above information is not medical advice, and you should use this information to consult with your doctor. It does not take into account any possible drug interactions with other medications you are taking.
posted by Joh at 9:14 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Wow - thanks so much for taking the time to look up that information!
posted by lilnublet at 9:33 PM on December 13, 2010


Best answer: Just wanted to reply but not sure if it is too late and you have had the procedure...
as a private practice lactation consultant, I am always surprised at the misinformation given to breastfeeding mothers regarding medications and minor surgical procedures. The previous poster told you about the Hale ratings (most of the meds you listed being considered compatible with breastfeeding), so I won't repeat that. Hale actually has a call center, no charge, to look up pg/Bf info about meds, InfantRisk http://infantrisk.org/
a good site to bookmark and call as needed.
The important thing to weigh is the risk ratio, for example, the risk of artificially feeding a baby usually outweighs the very minimal risk of the short term maternal medications.
If you still need more support regarding this decision, you may want to consult with a lactation consultant or call the InfantRisk clinic. Good luck!
posted by Melissa C. at 8:47 PM on December 17, 2010


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