Former owners were idiots, help me avoid the same fate.
December 9, 2010 7:08 AM Subscribe
A month ago we adopted a sweet little Pug. Now I'm having some problems training him and I could really use some help. This might get long.
I've searched the other many threads about training, but as usual there's all kinds of special snowflake details. Here goes:
We have neighbors who live around the corner from us, but their back yard shares a side with us. They had a sweet little Pug who spent a lot of time outside (first warning sign that I ignored) so we got to know him a little when we were outside playing with our own dog. He loved the attention and would play with our dog through the fence. I met the guy neighbor once and jokingly told them that I loved their dog and just wanted to "put him in my pocket and keep him forever".
Fast forward to the beginning of November. The lady neighbor (who I'd never met) shows up on my doorstep and asks if I'd be interested in taking their dog. She says they're moving to a new place and the landlord doesn't allow dogs. They're moving as soon as possible, she says, hopefully within a week.
She says the dog is totally house trained and kennel trained. She says he's pure bred and that she bought him from a former neighbor who breeds Pugs when he was about 6 months old and that she thinks he's about two years old now. She said he can be a little noisy, but I agree that he's a Pug and they can't even breathe quietly.
My husband and I had been discussing getting another dog to help exercise our German Shepherd Dog because daily walks just weren't enough, she needed somebody to really *play* with her and nobody in the house was tough enough to play the way she wanted without getting knocked to the ground repeatedly.
Since we'd already decided to get another dog, this seemed like a good opportunity. We didn't really want a Pug, but we weren't about to look a gift horse in the mouth.
The first few weeks were fine. We found out that he hated his kennel (so we moved it into a far room at night so his whining wouldn't wake anyone) and that he was a bit of a chewer. We just take whatever he's chewing away and give him a rawhide or one of his toys. Those were both things we thought were irritating but something we could easily work on with him.
Then the week before Thanksgiving the weather changed. It went from mid-forty degrees to about eighteen degrees (Fahrenheit) and that's when we started finding poop in the house. No matter how often I take him out, or how long he stays out there (we have a dog run) within a few minutes of being back inside he will poop in the house.
At first I thought he might have a medical problem that somehow made it hard or painful to go out in the cold, but the weather has warmed back up and he's still doing it.
I keep him on a leash when he's in the house, so he's never more than a few feet away from me. When he's with me we don't have a problem, but if the kids take him to go play he'll leave a pile somewhere.
The one time I caught him I yelled "NO NO NO NO NO!" and put him in his kennel (I realize now I should have put him outside, but I was in pajamas and couldn't get out to the dog run right away and I wanted to do something immediately) otherwise he hasn't been disciplined because I hadn't caught him in the act. (We're sure it wasn't the German Shepherd because she leaves land mines, not little piles.)
I called the lady neighbor and asked if this was something he's done before. She admitted that he'd leave piles on their covered porch, but since it was 'technically' outside they didn't think it was a problem. Then she said I should just throw him in his kennel, "That's what we did when he did something bad." So now I know he isn't actually kennel trained, the former owners just used it like a cage for him. (No wonder he hates it.)
Okay, that's it for background. Here's my question:
1) How do I get him to stop pooping in the house? Keeping him on a leash and constantly underfoot is getting old. I want him to go play with the kids without having one of them come yelling down the hall that the dog pooped.
2) Is it possible to get him to like his kennel? Right now we put him in there at night, if I'm laying down for a nap, or if we're leaving the house. Occasionally if I'm doing something where I can't have him right with me (usually because I'm taking care of my two year old) I will put him in the kennel too. Obviously his former owners tossed him in there when they were done dealing with him, that or chained him up in their back yard.
I don't want to just deal with him. I want to train him. I have a little experience with training dogs, but they've all been really smart herding dogs who enjoy learning. This Pug is really dumb, but he seems like he wants to please.
Other information that might be useful: He's not neutered (yet!) He's only peed in the house twice, once was the day we got him and I think he was marking. The second was when he hadn't been outside for a few hours. Both times he was immediately taken outside and the spots were cleaned thoroughly. When I'm outside with him and I see him go I give him lots of praise. When I put him in his kennel I give him lots of praise. Our dog run is one of those wires that run between two trees with a leash clipped to it, so he's not getting put outside in a cage. He has run of most of the yard. He gets along great with the German Shepherd, and he's really a sweetheart most of the time.
My husband isn't really a dog person and he's about at the end of his patience. He's been really good about all this, but he's ready to find the Pug a new home. I convinced him to give me a month to really try to fix this. He wants the pooping to stop, and he'd really like it if the dog would be quiet in his kennel.
Please help me.
I've searched the other many threads about training, but as usual there's all kinds of special snowflake details. Here goes:
We have neighbors who live around the corner from us, but their back yard shares a side with us. They had a sweet little Pug who spent a lot of time outside (first warning sign that I ignored) so we got to know him a little when we were outside playing with our own dog. He loved the attention and would play with our dog through the fence. I met the guy neighbor once and jokingly told them that I loved their dog and just wanted to "put him in my pocket and keep him forever".
Fast forward to the beginning of November. The lady neighbor (who I'd never met) shows up on my doorstep and asks if I'd be interested in taking their dog. She says they're moving to a new place and the landlord doesn't allow dogs. They're moving as soon as possible, she says, hopefully within a week.
She says the dog is totally house trained and kennel trained. She says he's pure bred and that she bought him from a former neighbor who breeds Pugs when he was about 6 months old and that she thinks he's about two years old now. She said he can be a little noisy, but I agree that he's a Pug and they can't even breathe quietly.
My husband and I had been discussing getting another dog to help exercise our German Shepherd Dog because daily walks just weren't enough, she needed somebody to really *play* with her and nobody in the house was tough enough to play the way she wanted without getting knocked to the ground repeatedly.
Since we'd already decided to get another dog, this seemed like a good opportunity. We didn't really want a Pug, but we weren't about to look a gift horse in the mouth.
The first few weeks were fine. We found out that he hated his kennel (so we moved it into a far room at night so his whining wouldn't wake anyone) and that he was a bit of a chewer. We just take whatever he's chewing away and give him a rawhide or one of his toys. Those were both things we thought were irritating but something we could easily work on with him.
Then the week before Thanksgiving the weather changed. It went from mid-forty degrees to about eighteen degrees (Fahrenheit) and that's when we started finding poop in the house. No matter how often I take him out, or how long he stays out there (we have a dog run) within a few minutes of being back inside he will poop in the house.
At first I thought he might have a medical problem that somehow made it hard or painful to go out in the cold, but the weather has warmed back up and he's still doing it.
I keep him on a leash when he's in the house, so he's never more than a few feet away from me. When he's with me we don't have a problem, but if the kids take him to go play he'll leave a pile somewhere.
The one time I caught him I yelled "NO NO NO NO NO!" and put him in his kennel (I realize now I should have put him outside, but I was in pajamas and couldn't get out to the dog run right away and I wanted to do something immediately) otherwise he hasn't been disciplined because I hadn't caught him in the act. (We're sure it wasn't the German Shepherd because she leaves land mines, not little piles.)
I called the lady neighbor and asked if this was something he's done before. She admitted that he'd leave piles on their covered porch, but since it was 'technically' outside they didn't think it was a problem. Then she said I should just throw him in his kennel, "That's what we did when he did something bad." So now I know he isn't actually kennel trained, the former owners just used it like a cage for him. (No wonder he hates it.)
Okay, that's it for background. Here's my question:
1) How do I get him to stop pooping in the house? Keeping him on a leash and constantly underfoot is getting old. I want him to go play with the kids without having one of them come yelling down the hall that the dog pooped.
2) Is it possible to get him to like his kennel? Right now we put him in there at night, if I'm laying down for a nap, or if we're leaving the house. Occasionally if I'm doing something where I can't have him right with me (usually because I'm taking care of my two year old) I will put him in the kennel too. Obviously his former owners tossed him in there when they were done dealing with him, that or chained him up in their back yard.
I don't want to just deal with him. I want to train him. I have a little experience with training dogs, but they've all been really smart herding dogs who enjoy learning. This Pug is really dumb, but he seems like he wants to please.
Other information that might be useful: He's not neutered (yet!) He's only peed in the house twice, once was the day we got him and I think he was marking. The second was when he hadn't been outside for a few hours. Both times he was immediately taken outside and the spots were cleaned thoroughly. When I'm outside with him and I see him go I give him lots of praise. When I put him in his kennel I give him lots of praise. Our dog run is one of those wires that run between two trees with a leash clipped to it, so he's not getting put outside in a cage. He has run of most of the yard. He gets along great with the German Shepherd, and he's really a sweetheart most of the time.
My husband isn't really a dog person and he's about at the end of his patience. He's been really good about all this, but he's ready to find the Pug a new home. I convinced him to give me a month to really try to fix this. He wants the pooping to stop, and he'd really like it if the dog would be quiet in his kennel.
Please help me.
Best answer: Ah pugs...I have three currently (husband cut me off). They are all rescues and none came house-trained. We installed a dog door in addition to the usual puppy type training. I have to say though that in my experience and in the pug rescue community, it's sort of accepted that pugs are pretty difficult to fully house-train. If you have a breed rescue in your area maybe you could drop them a line asking for some pug specific advice. I think they are awesome dogs but they definitely march to their own beat. oh, mine are also insanely food motivated and an immediate treat for pottying outside went a long way towards our current success.
posted by yodelingisfun at 7:44 AM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by yodelingisfun at 7:44 AM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Where does the other dog sleep? If you all sleep in one room and the pug is sleeping far away, it's probably really distressing him. Hate to say it, but you're probably best off spending a few sleepless nights getting him to calm down in the kennel in a place where he can be close to you. At night, maybe extra treats for laying down and being quiet in the kennel.
As for the kennel: bacon or hot dog bits every time he goes in. He needs to associate it with something REALLY GREAT to overcome the bad history.
For the pooping: you need to get the kids on board. Unfortunately, you do need to watch like a hawk. As soon as you see him squatting or find a fresh poop, take him outside. Interrupting in the act is best. Maybe give your kids some incentive for catching him in the act. Emphasize to everybody that it's not about punishment but changing the pattern.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2010
As for the kennel: bacon or hot dog bits every time he goes in. He needs to associate it with something REALLY GREAT to overcome the bad history.
For the pooping: you need to get the kids on board. Unfortunately, you do need to watch like a hawk. As soon as you see him squatting or find a fresh poop, take him outside. Interrupting in the act is best. Maybe give your kids some incentive for catching him in the act. Emphasize to everybody that it's not about punishment but changing the pattern.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: 1. Give your pug a toy to play with while in his crate.
2. Your pug should be in his crate whenever he is not being supervised.
3. When you take him out of his crate, carry him straight outside.
4. Keep his crate clean because you don't want him to get accustomed to being dirty.
5. Make a routine. If he knows he's going out soon, he's more likely to hold it.
6. Make sure the crate isn't too large or he'll sleep in one end and go in the other.
7. Don't give into whining. Eventually he will learn to see his crate as a secure place and will go there voluntarily.
8. Do not put him in his crate as punishment because it creates a negative association.
9. Lots of praise for potty outside.
10. Firm loud NO when pug makes a mistake indoors.
Good luck!!
posted by TLCplz at 7:48 AM on December 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
2. Your pug should be in his crate whenever he is not being supervised.
3. When you take him out of his crate, carry him straight outside.
4. Keep his crate clean because you don't want him to get accustomed to being dirty.
5. Make a routine. If he knows he's going out soon, he's more likely to hold it.
6. Make sure the crate isn't too large or he'll sleep in one end and go in the other.
7. Don't give into whining. Eventually he will learn to see his crate as a secure place and will go there voluntarily.
8. Do not put him in his crate as punishment because it creates a negative association.
9. Lots of praise for potty outside.
10. Firm loud NO when pug makes a mistake indoors.
Good luck!!
posted by TLCplz at 7:48 AM on December 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Here are a few immediate things you can do:
Neuter him, posthaste. His behavior may change, and any behavioral modification done beforehand may not apply.
Get him a new crate, not the old one he'd been using. Make sure it's small - only big enough for him to stand up and turn around. Put things that smell like you inside, like a used pillowcase. He may have bad associations with his old kennel.
Consider getting gates to keep him in one room when you can't keep him with you, preferably a room where the floor cleans up easily. No need to pop him in his crate when you're dealing with the 2-year-old. You don't want him to have run of the house, but a smaller confined space may help in the meantime.
Whenever he poops outside, give him a treat. Dogs who are food motivated are very different than dogs who like to learn, but they all learn in the end.
Other MeFites will have better advice on the actual training, but what I mentioned are low-effort, high-impact changes you can make.
posted by juniperesque at 7:49 AM on December 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Neuter him, posthaste. His behavior may change, and any behavioral modification done beforehand may not apply.
Get him a new crate, not the old one he'd been using. Make sure it's small - only big enough for him to stand up and turn around. Put things that smell like you inside, like a used pillowcase. He may have bad associations with his old kennel.
Consider getting gates to keep him in one room when you can't keep him with you, preferably a room where the floor cleans up easily. No need to pop him in his crate when you're dealing with the 2-year-old. You don't want him to have run of the house, but a smaller confined space may help in the meantime.
Whenever he poops outside, give him a treat. Dogs who are food motivated are very different than dogs who like to learn, but they all learn in the end.
Other MeFites will have better advice on the actual training, but what I mentioned are low-effort, high-impact changes you can make.
posted by juniperesque at 7:49 AM on December 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Yes - treat this dog like an untrained, unhousebroken puppy. We have three pugs that we've raised from the time they were 10-week old puppies. All of them have perfect manners, love their crates and don't go to the bathroom in the house.
I think the key for us is taking the untrained dog out on a regular interval - like every two hours. We also closed off parts of the house with baby-gates to supervise. All three pugs learned quickly and were fully housetrained by the time they were about 4-5 months old. After they were trained, we were able to open the house back up and take them out every 6-8 hours instead
Unlike "yodelingisfun", we found our pugs to be extremely easy to housetrain!
As far as the kennel/crate - make it comfortable and give your pug treats inside the crate. We like putting a little peanut butter in a Kong and letting our dogs enjoy their treats in privacy. Our pugs associate the crates with positive experiences, and willingly sleep and travel in the crates.
posted by MorningPerson at 7:53 AM on December 9, 2010
I think the key for us is taking the untrained dog out on a regular interval - like every two hours. We also closed off parts of the house with baby-gates to supervise. All three pugs learned quickly and were fully housetrained by the time they were about 4-5 months old. After they were trained, we were able to open the house back up and take them out every 6-8 hours instead
Unlike "yodelingisfun", we found our pugs to be extremely easy to housetrain!
As far as the kennel/crate - make it comfortable and give your pug treats inside the crate. We like putting a little peanut butter in a Kong and letting our dogs enjoy their treats in privacy. Our pugs associate the crates with positive experiences, and willingly sleep and travel in the crates.
posted by MorningPerson at 7:53 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: We got 1 year old rescue silky terrier back in April and he was clueless about housetraining, he couldn't seem to see the point. We tried telling him off when we caught him but all it did was make him sneak off and poop in weird places we couldn't find until we smelt it.
A lot of the housetraining was complicated by the fact we live in an apartment but I finally got some great advice from a trainer online that really worked for us. Dogs when they hit dog puberty at about 1 year old can regress in toilet training, also changes in living arrangements and routines can also mess with toilet training so it sounds like you've got both those working against you.
Never yell at the dog if you find a poop after the fact, in fact act as if nothing has happened and just clean it up, use an enzyme based cleaner like oxyclean to make sure all smell is gone. Do not make any sort of fuss or give it any sort of attention to the dog while doing this.
If you catch it pooping calmly distract it and take it outside then as it poops outside praise it like its pooping outside is the best thing ever, give it high reward treats like cheese or slices of hotdog or whatever your dog likes. The main thing though is catching him going potty outside and then praising him and rewarding he's pooping gold. I worked out the times he was most likely to poop and now he gets a taken out to potty at those 4 times everyday. In the end we worked out the dog needed a 10 minute walk outside to poop and now he poops like clockwork on his evening walk every night.
My guy still sometimes poops inside if we are asleep he doesn't try to wake us, but we set up a spot for him to go with puppy pads and an easy clean floor so its no problem to sort out in the morning. He's not running at 100% housetrained, but he's made it to about 95% and is much easier to live with. Just be patient, calm and use routines.
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or just want some moral support I know how hard it can be.
posted by wwax at 8:04 AM on December 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
A lot of the housetraining was complicated by the fact we live in an apartment but I finally got some great advice from a trainer online that really worked for us. Dogs when they hit dog puberty at about 1 year old can regress in toilet training, also changes in living arrangements and routines can also mess with toilet training so it sounds like you've got both those working against you.
Never yell at the dog if you find a poop after the fact, in fact act as if nothing has happened and just clean it up, use an enzyme based cleaner like oxyclean to make sure all smell is gone. Do not make any sort of fuss or give it any sort of attention to the dog while doing this.
If you catch it pooping calmly distract it and take it outside then as it poops outside praise it like its pooping outside is the best thing ever, give it high reward treats like cheese or slices of hotdog or whatever your dog likes. The main thing though is catching him going potty outside and then praising him and rewarding he's pooping gold. I worked out the times he was most likely to poop and now he gets a taken out to potty at those 4 times everyday. In the end we worked out the dog needed a 10 minute walk outside to poop and now he poops like clockwork on his evening walk every night.
My guy still sometimes poops inside if we are asleep he doesn't try to wake us, but we set up a spot for him to go with puppy pads and an easy clean floor so its no problem to sort out in the morning. He's not running at 100% housetrained, but he's made it to about 95% and is much easier to live with. Just be patient, calm and use routines.
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or just want some moral support I know how hard it can be.
posted by wwax at 8:04 AM on December 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you guys so much! I knew you all could help!
I can't just baby gate him in the kitchen. The kitchen is open to the living room and I haven't found a nine foot gate that doesn't attach to the walls (we're renting.) Everywhere else is carpeted. I do have a leash attached to our entertainment center to use when I just need a hands-free minute, but he's pooped when on that too.
I didn't think about him getting stressed when we aren't there, but now that it's been brought to my attention I realize that the whining happens more when we've left him alone. We can hear him howling while we're getting into the car.
The German Shepherd doesn't have a crate. When we're not home I leave her in my bedroom. The Pug's kennel is in my son's room. My son sleeps like a rock, so the whining doesn't bother him. Would it be better for the Pug to be in his crate in my room even though the big dog is loose?
Getting the kids involved is a great idea. My son really wanted a Pug, so I'm trying to make him responsible for some of the dog's care. Of course I'm the one home all day, so it's mostly my responsibility. Is that more confusing for the poor, stupid Pug? Right now he's under my control if he isn't outside or in his crate. I'd like him to be under my son's control when he's home. My son is a very advanced seven year old, but he has ADHD and I might just be asking too much.
posted by TooFewShoes at 8:12 AM on December 9, 2010
I can't just baby gate him in the kitchen. The kitchen is open to the living room and I haven't found a nine foot gate that doesn't attach to the walls (we're renting.) Everywhere else is carpeted. I do have a leash attached to our entertainment center to use when I just need a hands-free minute, but he's pooped when on that too.
I didn't think about him getting stressed when we aren't there, but now that it's been brought to my attention I realize that the whining happens more when we've left him alone. We can hear him howling while we're getting into the car.
The German Shepherd doesn't have a crate. When we're not home I leave her in my bedroom. The Pug's kennel is in my son's room. My son sleeps like a rock, so the whining doesn't bother him. Would it be better for the Pug to be in his crate in my room even though the big dog is loose?
Getting the kids involved is a great idea. My son really wanted a Pug, so I'm trying to make him responsible for some of the dog's care. Of course I'm the one home all day, so it's mostly my responsibility. Is that more confusing for the poor, stupid Pug? Right now he's under my control if he isn't outside or in his crate. I'd like him to be under my son's control when he's home. My son is a very advanced seven year old, but he has ADHD and I might just be asking too much.
posted by TooFewShoes at 8:12 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: Are you free feeding? Stop.
Until he is housebroken, he needs to be fed once a day. Pick am or pm and feed him precisely at the same time each time. That way you will be able to predict when it's going to come out the other end. I liked feeding at night so they would sleep/digest overnight and poop in the morning. This is something I rarely see suggested for housebreaking but it is so critical. If they free feed or are fed twice/thrice a day, there's always something going in and it WILL come out a couple hours later!
posted by hecho de la basura at 8:14 AM on December 9, 2010
Until he is housebroken, he needs to be fed once a day. Pick am or pm and feed him precisely at the same time each time. That way you will be able to predict when it's going to come out the other end. I liked feeding at night so they would sleep/digest overnight and poop in the morning. This is something I rarely see suggested for housebreaking but it is so critical. If they free feed or are fed twice/thrice a day, there's always something going in and it WILL come out a couple hours later!
posted by hecho de la basura at 8:14 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: I realize now I should have put him outside, but I was in pajamas and couldn't get out to the dog run right away and I wanted to do something immediately
Not to nag, but the first part is dead on: your dog cannot parse all those excuses you made for yourself, nor does he want to. All he knows is that he got away with it - and under what general circumstances.
"Lessee, I gotta poop, but it's COLD outside! That one time, when Mistress was in her pyjamas, all I got was a crating. I can handle that. Just gotta wait...."
One yes = one hundred no's. Do not let yourself yield again.
Off to let the girlfriend know about this thread, since her pugs do the same thing when it's snowy.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:16 AM on December 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Not to nag, but the first part is dead on: your dog cannot parse all those excuses you made for yourself, nor does he want to. All he knows is that he got away with it - and under what general circumstances.
"Lessee, I gotta poop, but it's COLD outside! That one time, when Mistress was in her pyjamas, all I got was a crating. I can handle that. Just gotta wait...."
One yes = one hundred no's. Do not let yourself yield again.
Off to let the girlfriend know about this thread, since her pugs do the same thing when it's snowy.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:16 AM on December 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I have a pug mix and they are much less insulated by their short haird coats than shepherds. His paws get cold much quicker and if the ground is frozen it will be unpleasant for him. I would probably want to poop in the house too if I were a pug.
I second two of the suggestions:
- kong + some type of filling (whether it be kong brand or cheese whiz or PB) EVERY TIME he is put in crate at night. After a while he will zip right in.
- regular feeding!! Pugs are stinky and will usually tell you when they're ready to poop by being very gassy. Once you figure out his bowel routine take him out when you think he's ready to go, and if he doesn't go, put him in your gated kitchen to warm up. In a few minutes try again. I used to point out my shepherd mix's poop to the pug mix and say "poopie!" so he knew why we were out in the snow. He knows the command "poopie" now, hahaha!
There are mixed opinions about whether or not to give a treat for pooping outside but I do. Lots of praise when pooping happens outside is a must.
The best training advice I ever got was PATIENCE and CONSISTENCE. If the dog makes a mistake or has three good days and one bad one, don't give up. Just keep trying.
Good luck!
posted by red_lotus at 8:41 AM on December 9, 2010
I second two of the suggestions:
- kong + some type of filling (whether it be kong brand or cheese whiz or PB) EVERY TIME he is put in crate at night. After a while he will zip right in.
- regular feeding!! Pugs are stinky and will usually tell you when they're ready to poop by being very gassy. Once you figure out his bowel routine take him out when you think he's ready to go, and if he doesn't go, put him in your gated kitchen to warm up. In a few minutes try again. I used to point out my shepherd mix's poop to the pug mix and say "poopie!" so he knew why we were out in the snow. He knows the command "poopie" now, hahaha!
There are mixed opinions about whether or not to give a treat for pooping outside but I do. Lots of praise when pooping happens outside is a must.
The best training advice I ever got was PATIENCE and CONSISTENCE. If the dog makes a mistake or has three good days and one bad one, don't give up. Just keep trying.
Good luck!
posted by red_lotus at 8:41 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: I don't think it matters where the crate is or if another dog is loose. The key is he is always in it when he's not being played with or outside the house. I know it sounds mean, bit really works. And yes! To consistency. Keep up with the routine you will establish. Dogs love routine.
posted by TLCplz at 8:58 AM on December 9, 2010
posted by TLCplz at 8:58 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: I can tell you that a great way to get him to like the crate is to feed him in it! Also make going into the crate part of training. My dog knows that when I say "kennel" she'd better get her hiney in there, and that she often gets rewarded for it.
posted by radioamy at 9:04 AM on December 9, 2010
posted by radioamy at 9:04 AM on December 9, 2010
Response by poster: We feed him twice a day. One cup of food in the morning, one at night. I'm afraid to give him two cups all at once because his little belly gets so big. It's what the other owners were feeding him and he's not at all overweight. Plus he gets a lot more exercise now. (Along with playing with the big dog and random games of fetch, he hops on the treadmill with me!)
The poops don't seem to have a time of day. The dogs are outside during the warm part of the day, and so we're seeing the house pooping late afternoon/early evening. I've tried putting him out side at that time and he just poops as soon as he comes in.
I totally understand that he is a little dog with a thinner coat. I don't leave him outside when it's cold. He goes out and as soon as he does his business he gets let back in. When it's 40 degrees or below we keep them inside.
The one time I caught him I didn't realize I shouldn't have crated him until after I'd already done it. I keep slip on shoes by the door now, if I have to run out in my underwear I will. He won't be crated again for doing something wrong!
posted by TooFewShoes at 9:14 AM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
The poops don't seem to have a time of day. The dogs are outside during the warm part of the day, and so we're seeing the house pooping late afternoon/early evening. I've tried putting him out side at that time and he just poops as soon as he comes in.
I totally understand that he is a little dog with a thinner coat. I don't leave him outside when it's cold. He goes out and as soon as he does his business he gets let back in. When it's 40 degrees or below we keep them inside.
The one time I caught him I didn't realize I shouldn't have crated him until after I'd already done it. I keep slip on shoes by the door now, if I have to run out in my underwear I will. He won't be crated again for doing something wrong!
posted by TooFewShoes at 9:14 AM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: From now on, feed him in his kennel. Put his kennel some place busy (kitchen, living room), and leave the door open, and leave treats in there for him to find.
Don't EVER, from this day on, use the kennel as punishment. Have very special toys/bones/treats that he only gets when he's in his kennel.
If he does poop in the house, ignore it. Don't let him see you clean it up (as this may become a game). Use a deneutralizer to get rid of any lingering smell.
If you're not going to ignore it, or if you do catch him in the act, keep the discipline mild and simple. Shame on you, said in a disapproving but not loud voice. Then immediately take him outside.
Punishing him for this will make it worse. It will give him anxiety about using the bathroom. Obviously huge amounts of praise when he goes outside, and treats when he's done, are in order. Also, the whole time he's going, say a 'poo' command. I use 'do your poo' and now my dog goes on command. And of course a lot of 'good boy's!
Finally, try to find one spot outside where he will go. A spot that is not too far from your house. Don't let him free to run and play in the dog run until he goes.
If, for a few days, you could feed him, and then take him out to poo, and if he won't poo it's into the crate for a couple hours, then out to try again, repeat, etc. until he poos. Don't make it stressful or upsetting, just the facts of life. A poo in his poo spot gains the freedom to run and play.
Finally, take note of how often he poos, around what time of day, etc. Try to take him out at these times, and crate him or keep him with you if he won't go.
Feel free to memail me! Good luck!
posted by whalebreath at 9:18 AM on December 9, 2010
Don't EVER, from this day on, use the kennel as punishment. Have very special toys/bones/treats that he only gets when he's in his kennel.
If he does poop in the house, ignore it. Don't let him see you clean it up (as this may become a game). Use a deneutralizer to get rid of any lingering smell.
If you're not going to ignore it, or if you do catch him in the act, keep the discipline mild and simple. Shame on you, said in a disapproving but not loud voice. Then immediately take him outside.
Punishing him for this will make it worse. It will give him anxiety about using the bathroom. Obviously huge amounts of praise when he goes outside, and treats when he's done, are in order. Also, the whole time he's going, say a 'poo' command. I use 'do your poo' and now my dog goes on command. And of course a lot of 'good boy's!
Finally, try to find one spot outside where he will go. A spot that is not too far from your house. Don't let him free to run and play in the dog run until he goes.
If, for a few days, you could feed him, and then take him out to poo, and if he won't poo it's into the crate for a couple hours, then out to try again, repeat, etc. until he poos. Don't make it stressful or upsetting, just the facts of life. A poo in his poo spot gains the freedom to run and play.
Finally, take note of how often he poos, around what time of day, etc. Try to take him out at these times, and crate him or keep him with you if he won't go.
Feel free to memail me! Good luck!
posted by whalebreath at 9:18 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: Two really big things - one is that a few times catching the pooch in the act is the best teaching tool you can have. This is why you get everyone involved. When the pug pooping starts, tell it "No! No! No!" in an authoriative but non-angry voice. Ideally you should be in the act of picking the pooch up by the time you're done telling him this. Take him out to the yard immediately, and, importantly, to the same spot every time. Put him down and let him finish anything he's got left, then shamelessly praise and pet. Did you find a pile in the house? Clean it up and that's that. The dog has already forgotten about it, so punishment won't work.
Next - get the pugnacious pooch on a schedule. That will make figuring out poop times so much simpler. As mentioned above, one feeding per day is perfect. We've been doing that with our cats and dogs for years, and it works out well. They're happy and healthy. Read your food label for portion sizes and feed the pooch that much, and no more. (This may be a rough transition if you free feed.) Dogs tend to need to poop soon after eating. So, let him eat, and take him out (again, same spot!) shortly afterwards. You'll figure out what time of day he wants to poop at as you go.
Feeding is important, both how much and what you feed. Dogs can only handle so much food in their system. They'll poop out the rest, so if they're eating too much, they'll have to poop a lot more. Also, cheaper foods (Pedigree, Dog Chow, etc.) don't digest as well as better foods. A higher quality food (Iams, Pro Plan, Science Diet) may be more expensive, but they eat less, poop less, and will look much healthier. These foods are worth it. (We used some cheap food once to get our dog by until we could get to the pet store. I never knew she could poop so much.)
Good luck. Pugs rock. Not as much as this pug-sounding bulldog who's snoring in my lap right now :) but they rock.
posted by azpenguin at 9:18 AM on December 9, 2010
Next - get the pugnacious pooch on a schedule. That will make figuring out poop times so much simpler. As mentioned above, one feeding per day is perfect. We've been doing that with our cats and dogs for years, and it works out well. They're happy and healthy. Read your food label for portion sizes and feed the pooch that much, and no more. (This may be a rough transition if you free feed.) Dogs tend to need to poop soon after eating. So, let him eat, and take him out (again, same spot!) shortly afterwards. You'll figure out what time of day he wants to poop at as you go.
Feeding is important, both how much and what you feed. Dogs can only handle so much food in their system. They'll poop out the rest, so if they're eating too much, they'll have to poop a lot more. Also, cheaper foods (Pedigree, Dog Chow, etc.) don't digest as well as better foods. A higher quality food (Iams, Pro Plan, Science Diet) may be more expensive, but they eat less, poop less, and will look much healthier. These foods are worth it. (We used some cheap food once to get our dog by until we could get to the pet store. I never knew she could poop so much.)
Good luck. Pugs rock. Not as much as this pug-sounding bulldog who's snoring in my lap right now :) but they rock.
posted by azpenguin at 9:18 AM on December 9, 2010
TooFewShoes: "I can't just baby gate him in the kitchen. The kitchen is open to the living room and I haven't found a nine foot gate that doesn't attach to the walls (we're renting.)"
What about something like this Convertible Pet Yard? Seems pretty expensive to me, but maybe it's worth it for some peace of mind?
I don't know anything about pugs, but my little formerly unsocialized, practically feral Pomeranian does pretty well with Pooch Pads. I've got four I rotate and wash on a regular basis. Maybe that would be a good alternative if real housetraining just doesn't stick?
Belly bands help with male dogs who pee and mark, but not for poop issues. But maybe a diaper?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 9:28 AM on December 9, 2010
What about something like this Convertible Pet Yard? Seems pretty expensive to me, but maybe it's worth it for some peace of mind?
I don't know anything about pugs, but my little formerly unsocialized, practically feral Pomeranian does pretty well with Pooch Pads. I've got four I rotate and wash on a regular basis. Maybe that would be a good alternative if real housetraining just doesn't stick?
Belly bands help with male dogs who pee and mark, but not for poop issues. But maybe a diaper?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 9:28 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: We feed him twice a day. One cup of food in the morning, one at night. I'm afraid to give him two cups all at once because his little belly gets so big. It's what the other owners were feeding him and he's not at all overweight.
Whoa - that seems like a lot of food! My pugs each get 1 cup of food *once* a day! They're all a healthy weight and get plenty of exercise.
posted by MorningPerson at 10:20 AM on December 9, 2010
Whoa - that seems like a lot of food! My pugs each get 1 cup of food *once* a day! They're all a healthy weight and get plenty of exercise.
posted by MorningPerson at 10:20 AM on December 9, 2010
I adopted an older pug and he had not been well trained. It took him a while to catch on to house training, but once he did he was pretty good. Pugs are not super smart and are a bit hard to train, but once they catch on they do okay. They like to please their owners and be near to people as much as possible.
posted by jenfu at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2010
posted by jenfu at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: Just a couple of quick thoughts: consider an exercise pen ("ex-pen") for the kitchen; Amazon has good prices. Rehousebreaking in a dog from a not-great environment can take a really long time; our neighbor-abandoned dog took several months to get the peeing outside down pat, and 18 months before she stopped chronically pooping inside at night (and still, every so often, we get a present). When you take him out, make sure you actually get him running and playing for a couple of minutes - activity makes poop, you just have to keep him out long enough for him to do it in the right place where you can do the big "good dog" dance.
Aside from one firm No if you catch them in the act, the housebreaking is really all about throwing the crazyperson party when they do it right. It will help immensely that the shepherd will be a role model. It just takes time.
I'm not a big fan of crates; I think it's better to make a pack environment and just remove the opportunity to get in trouble (which I know is hard in a bedroom with electrical plugs etc, but it can be done) so that the dog bonds with you and wants to respect your leadership and please you by pooping in the yard. It's all tied together, behaviorally.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2010
Aside from one firm No if you catch them in the act, the housebreaking is really all about throwing the crazyperson party when they do it right. It will help immensely that the shepherd will be a role model. It just takes time.
I'm not a big fan of crates; I think it's better to make a pack environment and just remove the opportunity to get in trouble (which I know is hard in a bedroom with electrical plugs etc, but it can be done) so that the dog bonds with you and wants to respect your leadership and please you by pooping in the yard. It's all tied together, behaviorally.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2010
Best answer: I hate to be a buzzkill, but as a former owner of pugs, I'm going to suggest you take your husband seriously and look into another breed. Pugs can be very funny and charming, but even under the best of circumstances, they are very hard to train out of bad habits, especially pooping and peeing in the house. They're very, very stubborn and will try the patience of even the most avid dog lover. It was really nice of you to try to rescue the neighbor's dog from what sounds like a miserable existence, but honestly, he's going to be a handful.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 10:31 AM on December 9, 2010
posted by LuckySeven~ at 10:31 AM on December 9, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for that perspective LuckySeven. But before I find him a new home I want to make sure that I've done everything in my power to help him succeed. I don't want to give up on him just because I'm to lazy to do this right. He might not be exactly the breed we wanted but my hubby wanted a Chihuahua and they aren't known for their stunning mental abilities either!
I'm willing to put in the work, I just needed to know how.
I'm going to cut the feeding down to once at night, and take him outside in the mornings to try to catch him pooping so I can 'throw the crazyperson party' when he gets it right. I'm also going to try feeding him in his kennel. He is very food motivated, so I'm hoping that helps.
Right now the two dogs are playing in the Living Room in front of me. If you've never seen a gigantic German Shepherd play nicely with a little Pug then you're missing out!
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:27 AM on December 9, 2010
I'm willing to put in the work, I just needed to know how.
I'm going to cut the feeding down to once at night, and take him outside in the mornings to try to catch him pooping so I can 'throw the crazyperson party' when he gets it right. I'm also going to try feeding him in his kennel. He is very food motivated, so I'm hoping that helps.
Right now the two dogs are playing in the Living Room in front of me. If you've never seen a gigantic German Shepherd play nicely with a little Pug then you're missing out!
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:27 AM on December 9, 2010
You have a great attitude -- best of luck!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 2:18 PM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by LuckySeven~ at 2:18 PM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Since you liked my post from a few days ago about my new pup, i can tell you that the crate training is going really well just a few days in.
we've followed the advice of books:
(1) lead her in to the crate with a hansel and gretel trail of treats from in front of it, saying "crate up" and good girl.
(2) once she steps in, we give her her peanut butter kong (what a magical gift to dog parents) - she only gets it and peanut butter in her crate. period. (and make sure it's a kong or safe treat to keep the puppy locked in with).
(3) close the door, while continuing to say "good girl" and sprinkling a last few treats in.
(4) walking away, even with a whimper.
we also feed her inside of her crate - keeping the door open/alternating with shutting it (usually not locking it).
the first few times we had her sit in her crate we closed the door but did not lock it.
now she sleeps in it at night and is in it for parts of the day.
we also give her about 1.5-2.5 hours of exercise a day - long morning and evening walks, plus some playtime and short pee walks.
with the potty training, everyone is correct. never never scold for going in the house. dogs are not like people and they have no shame about pooping or peeing in their home. that's why it is important to interrupt if you catch them in the cat (no or a clap) and take them outside immediately (this has led to some funny outfits in my house the past week). and do use oxyclean or some of the special pet cleaners - otherwise they'll smell where they went and keep using the area to "eliminate."
feel free to memail as i've been reading a bit and trying things out.
good luck!
posted by anya32 at 7:28 AM on December 13, 2010
we've followed the advice of books:
(1) lead her in to the crate with a hansel and gretel trail of treats from in front of it, saying "crate up" and good girl.
(2) once she steps in, we give her her peanut butter kong (what a magical gift to dog parents) - she only gets it and peanut butter in her crate. period. (and make sure it's a kong or safe treat to keep the puppy locked in with).
(3) close the door, while continuing to say "good girl" and sprinkling a last few treats in.
(4) walking away, even with a whimper.
we also feed her inside of her crate - keeping the door open/alternating with shutting it (usually not locking it).
the first few times we had her sit in her crate we closed the door but did not lock it.
now she sleeps in it at night and is in it for parts of the day.
we also give her about 1.5-2.5 hours of exercise a day - long morning and evening walks, plus some playtime and short pee walks.
with the potty training, everyone is correct. never never scold for going in the house. dogs are not like people and they have no shame about pooping or peeing in their home. that's why it is important to interrupt if you catch them in the cat (no or a clap) and take them outside immediately (this has led to some funny outfits in my house the past week). and do use oxyclean or some of the special pet cleaners - otherwise they'll smell where they went and keep using the area to "eliminate."
feel free to memail as i've been reading a bit and trying things out.
good luck!
posted by anya32 at 7:28 AM on December 13, 2010
Response by poster: Update:
Luckyseven turned out to be the best help with her (his?) "Buzzkill" link!
I started something called Schedule Based Training from that site and it's been working really well.
First of all, we found a weight to chain him too when he's in the house. My husband had a piece of a railroad tie that he was using as a doorstop, it has a hole in the middle that we looped the dog's leash through. Now I just move the tie to allow the dog to be near me and everybody is happy. He gets to stay close to me and I know right where he is. His leash is plenty long and he has room to play and wrestle with the big dog. It also gives me a little leeway if I need him out from underfoot. I can just move him a little farther away (like when I'm ironing or when the kids are playing the Wii.)
I tried just feeding him one cup of food once a day, but he literally shrank before my eyes. He was looking really skinny after just three days and I found that really alarming. That's when I found the SBT which said to feed them twice a day. Its been a few weeks and he's finally starting to look healthy again.
I take both dogs out at 6 AM, then feed them. Then they go out again at 11 AM and 4 PM with another feeding at 4. They go out again once more at 9 PM and that's usually when the Pug gets put in his kennel for the night. When we go outside I give the "Go Potty" command and a "Good Boy" when he goes #1, when he goes #2 I do the "Crazyperson" praise and give him lots of petting and love. There hasn't been a single mess in the house since I started the schedule. We even had to leave him a couple of hours longer on Christmas (they didn't go out or get fed until 6 PM) and there was no mess in his kennel. I have occasionally been slightly early or slightly late (within an hour) on the 11 AM going out, but that's because I've had appointments. So even when I vary the schedule slightly it still works. Oh yeah, and we stay outside until they go. No matter how cold it is! And I stay right there outside with them.
I did take everyone's advice and I move his kennel into the front room in the mornings and feed him there. It does seem to be helping him understand that his kennel isn't a bad place and he doesn't get so upset when he has to go back in there. We also got special treats that we only give him when he's in the kennel, but he doesn't eat them until we let him out.
I've set my phone to go off every time I need to take the dogs out, and I think he's figured out what it means. He isn't noisy in his kennel very often any more, except in the morning when my alarm goes off. There is no snooze for me. As soon as the alarm goes off he starts complaining (it really sounds like a person complaining) for me to get up and go out. He also gets really vocal if I go into another room without him.
Life has gotten much better here, and even my husband is impressed with the improvement. You guys are amazing!
posted by TooFewShoes at 6:17 AM on December 28, 2010
Luckyseven turned out to be the best help with her (his?) "Buzzkill" link!
I started something called Schedule Based Training from that site and it's been working really well.
First of all, we found a weight to chain him too when he's in the house. My husband had a piece of a railroad tie that he was using as a doorstop, it has a hole in the middle that we looped the dog's leash through. Now I just move the tie to allow the dog to be near me and everybody is happy. He gets to stay close to me and I know right where he is. His leash is plenty long and he has room to play and wrestle with the big dog. It also gives me a little leeway if I need him out from underfoot. I can just move him a little farther away (like when I'm ironing or when the kids are playing the Wii.)
I tried just feeding him one cup of food once a day, but he literally shrank before my eyes. He was looking really skinny after just three days and I found that really alarming. That's when I found the SBT which said to feed them twice a day. Its been a few weeks and he's finally starting to look healthy again.
I take both dogs out at 6 AM, then feed them. Then they go out again at 11 AM and 4 PM with another feeding at 4. They go out again once more at 9 PM and that's usually when the Pug gets put in his kennel for the night. When we go outside I give the "Go Potty" command and a "Good Boy" when he goes #1, when he goes #2 I do the "Crazyperson" praise and give him lots of petting and love. There hasn't been a single mess in the house since I started the schedule. We even had to leave him a couple of hours longer on Christmas (they didn't go out or get fed until 6 PM) and there was no mess in his kennel. I have occasionally been slightly early or slightly late (within an hour) on the 11 AM going out, but that's because I've had appointments. So even when I vary the schedule slightly it still works. Oh yeah, and we stay outside until they go. No matter how cold it is! And I stay right there outside with them.
I did take everyone's advice and I move his kennel into the front room in the mornings and feed him there. It does seem to be helping him understand that his kennel isn't a bad place and he doesn't get so upset when he has to go back in there. We also got special treats that we only give him when he's in the kennel, but he doesn't eat them until we let him out.
I've set my phone to go off every time I need to take the dogs out, and I think he's figured out what it means. He isn't noisy in his kennel very often any more, except in the morning when my alarm goes off. There is no snooze for me. As soon as the alarm goes off he starts complaining (it really sounds like a person complaining) for me to get up and go out. He also gets really vocal if I go into another room without him.
Life has gotten much better here, and even my husband is impressed with the improvement. You guys are amazing!
posted by TooFewShoes at 6:17 AM on December 28, 2010
Response by poster: Update to the update:
I found him a new home. I've been religious about the training and it wasn't helping. I cannot deal with poop in my house. I'm potty training my son right now and that's enough for me.
I found him a home with a lady on disability who really wants to train him to be her service dog. I was really, really honest when I described him and she still wanted to take him so I say more power to her.
I really feel like I did the best I could. I took all your advice, worked really hard, and it was just too much for me. I hope this new place will be a good home for him. We still might try to get another dog to play with our German Shepherd, but I'll be doing a lot of research and checking out the Humane Society. No more taking dogs from neighbors.
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:03 AM on January 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I found him a new home. I've been religious about the training and it wasn't helping. I cannot deal with poop in my house. I'm potty training my son right now and that's enough for me.
I found him a home with a lady on disability who really wants to train him to be her service dog. I was really, really honest when I described him and she still wanted to take him so I say more power to her.
I really feel like I did the best I could. I took all your advice, worked really hard, and it was just too much for me. I hope this new place will be a good home for him. We still might try to get another dog to play with our German Shepherd, but I'll be doing a lot of research and checking out the Humane Society. No more taking dogs from neighbors.
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:03 AM on January 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Aww, sorry it didn't work out, TooFewShoes. I was really rooting for you, but don't feel bad about having to give him away. Pugs really are a breed unto themselves. I'm a huge dog-lover, but after our last pug died, I didn't even want to think about owning another dog for years! They can really wear you down -- even if you've raised them with love and affection from puppyhood like we did.
I think it's awesome that you saved him from his miserable existence at your neighbor's anyway. You truly should feel proud of that!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 6:14 PM on January 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think it's awesome that you saved him from his miserable existence at your neighbor's anyway. You truly should feel proud of that!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 6:14 PM on January 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
That means if he's indoors and hasn't pooped in a while, he should not be alone. You probably also need to spend a few days coaxing him into the kennel and treating him profusely until he associates it with good times instead of bad. It really doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong, just keep at it until it sinks in.
Having just housebroken a puppy, I know what a timesuck it can be. It'll probably be a little worse with an older dog, because you have to override the behaviors already in place. Good luck.
posted by chrisamiller at 7:35 AM on December 9, 2010