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December 8, 2010 11:09 AM Subscribe
How to deal with ambivalence in a romantic relationship?
I have read a lot of the relevant threads. Please forgive me if I've missed something precisely relevant.
My lover has been sleeping over for the past six months or so. He's smart, sweet, lots in common, pretty, good in bed, and so forth. I need space, he gives me space. I need attention, he gives me attention. I'm his first, and he thinks I'm the cat's miaow.
We're both in town for the next year or two, we both have plans to leave after that. It is an ideal relationship for right now, but part of me seems to think I probably want kids. It isn't quite practical yet - I have roots in this community, but I'm going to want to live somewhere else to raise 'em. I'm 27, he's an absurdly mature 20. I'm not about to have kids with a 20 year old, and I don't know if he's right for that with me anyway. Though, how could I know, having not had kids before? It also bothers me that he doesn't really have any sexual experience with anybody else. We're not technically in a monogamous relationship, but we are practically.
Also, I don't think it's necessarily about the kids thing or the sexual history. I've seen people be ambivalent before, and even when they try to name the source of the ambivalence, it isn't necessarily the named thing, but more just a feeling.
By ambivalence, to be clear, I mean that I feel strongly in both directions.
Part of me thinks it's a good idea to wait it out. He's awesome, and I love him. (I know he loves me, he's just waiting for me to take the lead. But I don't tell him so because I end up taking the lead on everything, and it seems like a good idea to let him work up the guts to flat-out say it.) He won't always be twenty, and eventually I won't be quite such a novelty anymore. (I think it bothers me that he seems to like me more than I like him).
I don't want to automatically be a part of this disposable dating society - I place a high value on continuity in friendship, so why the trouble when sex is added into the mix? I don't even want marriage (ever - unless maybe it ends up making convenient sense for paperwork/etc.), although in theory I would like continuity in a romantic relationship.
I would really rather prefer to stay with him - I think this is really a question about how to come to terms with being in a long-term romantic relationship.
...but if ambivalence never works out in romantic relationships (except where religious beliefs intervene), I suppose I'd appreciate being told that, too.
I have read a lot of the relevant threads. Please forgive me if I've missed something precisely relevant.
My lover has been sleeping over for the past six months or so. He's smart, sweet, lots in common, pretty, good in bed, and so forth. I need space, he gives me space. I need attention, he gives me attention. I'm his first, and he thinks I'm the cat's miaow.
We're both in town for the next year or two, we both have plans to leave after that. It is an ideal relationship for right now, but part of me seems to think I probably want kids. It isn't quite practical yet - I have roots in this community, but I'm going to want to live somewhere else to raise 'em. I'm 27, he's an absurdly mature 20. I'm not about to have kids with a 20 year old, and I don't know if he's right for that with me anyway. Though, how could I know, having not had kids before? It also bothers me that he doesn't really have any sexual experience with anybody else. We're not technically in a monogamous relationship, but we are practically.
Also, I don't think it's necessarily about the kids thing or the sexual history. I've seen people be ambivalent before, and even when they try to name the source of the ambivalence, it isn't necessarily the named thing, but more just a feeling.
By ambivalence, to be clear, I mean that I feel strongly in both directions.
Part of me thinks it's a good idea to wait it out. He's awesome, and I love him. (I know he loves me, he's just waiting for me to take the lead. But I don't tell him so because I end up taking the lead on everything, and it seems like a good idea to let him work up the guts to flat-out say it.) He won't always be twenty, and eventually I won't be quite such a novelty anymore. (I think it bothers me that he seems to like me more than I like him).
I don't want to automatically be a part of this disposable dating society - I place a high value on continuity in friendship, so why the trouble when sex is added into the mix? I don't even want marriage (ever - unless maybe it ends up making convenient sense for paperwork/etc.), although in theory I would like continuity in a romantic relationship.
I would really rather prefer to stay with him - I think this is really a question about how to come to terms with being in a long-term romantic relationship.
...but if ambivalence never works out in romantic relationships (except where religious beliefs intervene), I suppose I'd appreciate being told that, too.
An LTR with a 20 year old? Just go with the flow. Things will be drastically different six months from now, needless to say two years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:16 AM on December 8, 2010
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:16 AM on December 8, 2010
Best answer: Relationships should, and do, last as long as they work for both people. What are you ambivalent about? It seems awfully unlikely that you guys are going to be together forever--just based on your ages/stages and that you are each planning a move in the next couple of years--so why not just enjoy what you are doing now, instead of worrying if this is the person you are going to have kids with?
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:29 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:29 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
How do I go with the flow?
Don't analyze everything. If he suggests a movie, don't be like "OMG why did he pick this movie? What if I don't like it? What does this particular movie say about him? Or me? Or us?" Just go to the movie.
posted by Melismata at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't analyze everything. If he suggests a movie, don't be like "OMG why did he pick this movie? What if I don't like it? What does this particular movie say about him? Or me? Or us?" Just go to the movie.
posted by Melismata at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
lover: "We're not technically in a monogamous relationship, but we are practically."
Could you expand on this point? Is it that you haven't had "the talk", or are one or both of you interested in something non-monogamous?
posted by Cogito at 11:43 AM on December 8, 2010
Could you expand on this point? Is it that you haven't had "the talk", or are one or both of you interested in something non-monogamous?
posted by Cogito at 11:43 AM on December 8, 2010
Best answer: Let things work out now, and wait a couple years on the kids thing.
posted by Slinga at 11:45 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Slinga at 11:45 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think the problem isn't ambivalence, its fear. Ambivalence is take it or leave it, meh. This is a set of specific concerns you are thinking about, your desires, his age, experience.
And with fear, there is only one solution--everytime it pops up, feel it, acknowledge it--do not run from it.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:50 AM on December 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
And with fear, there is only one solution--everytime it pops up, feel it, acknowledge it--do not run from it.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:50 AM on December 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You have several options. You don't have enough information to work out which choice would be "best", and maybe you never will. But you can maybe try to learn a little more about who you are and who he is and what you each want.
There are several ways that you could learn more. You could talk to the guy about it and find out what he thinks. You could just enjoy the relationship for what it is and see if you feel any wiser further down the line. You could talk to older people you know who have been in similar situations to see how they handled it. You could ask your mother how she knew she wanted kids with your Dad.
Alternatively, you can look at a relationship as something you decide to have, you decide to work on. So, rather than wondering whether it will work out, you (two) can make a conscious decision to put in the effort to make it work out.
I'm not about to have kids with a 20 year old
Don't rule this out just because. I've known folks with roughly your age gap, who've settled down and had kids when the guy was not much older than this, and it's worked out fine. Not everyone wants to "play the field".
posted by emilyw at 11:59 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are several ways that you could learn more. You could talk to the guy about it and find out what he thinks. You could just enjoy the relationship for what it is and see if you feel any wiser further down the line. You could talk to older people you know who have been in similar situations to see how they handled it. You could ask your mother how she knew she wanted kids with your Dad.
Alternatively, you can look at a relationship as something you decide to have, you decide to work on. So, rather than wondering whether it will work out, you (two) can make a conscious decision to put in the effort to make it work out.
I'm not about to have kids with a 20 year old
Don't rule this out just because. I've known folks with roughly your age gap, who've settled down and had kids when the guy was not much older than this, and it's worked out fine. Not everyone wants to "play the field".
posted by emilyw at 11:59 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're playing some games to avoid communication. You're making guesses rather than asking direct questions, and you're holding back on telling him how you feel to manipulate his behavior. You might feel less anxiety about your relationship if you discuss your thoughts, feelings, hopes, and fears with this guy instead of with yourself or internet strangers.
posted by prefpara at 12:17 PM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by prefpara at 12:17 PM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: cogito - we've had "the talk"
prefpara - he knows I have ambivalence, but I try not to bog him down with it, since there's not really any new perspective he can add at this point.
All - thank you for your advice. Sounds like ambivalence isn't a huge STOP HERE red flag, so that's reassuring.
posted by lover at 12:33 PM on December 8, 2010
prefpara - he knows I have ambivalence, but I try not to bog him down with it, since there's not really any new perspective he can add at this point.
All - thank you for your advice. Sounds like ambivalence isn't a huge STOP HERE red flag, so that's reassuring.
posted by lover at 12:33 PM on December 8, 2010
Best answer: Ok, here's my theory about humans in love. And drama. I think we all need drama. It's exciting. It's tension. Ebb and flow. Catch and release. But (and this is a big but), there are good kinds of drama and bad kinds of drama. And if we don't get our drama needs met - and we don't know how to cultivate the good kinds - we'll just fall back on the quickest route to the bad kinds we know so well. Probably something we picked up somewhere; something we know how to navigate comfortably, as screwed up as the behavior may be. So we might let things pile up. We might withhold. Or overbook. Or allow ourselves to get sick. Or make somebody else sick. Or unhappy. We might fuck up. Or lay a trap.
But without *some* drama, relationships are boring and predictable. All the nooks and crannies have been found out and there seems no need to search for some new nuance or novelty. I think we often inadvertently aim for this in relationships, because we are taught that drama is bad.
So how do you meet your tension/drama/excitement needs in a healthy way? It's scary as fuck is all I really know. You gotta put yourself out there, for one. Constantly pushing boundaries, exploring things, trying things that you might not enjoy, or that one of you likes but the other one doesn't. Creating suspense, surprises, silly games...all of these things are wonderful, but they introduce the possibility of conflict, and could potentially advance an inevitable demise.
But it's all worthwhile. And way more fun than worrying in isolation.
I know that's not the most targeted answer to your question. I just got the sense from reading what you wrote that it may be the case that you both are stifling under stalling. What you need is some excitement so that you can be in this moment, now, feeling it out...rather than planning for the next one and feeling apprehensive that it might be too boring when you get there.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:38 PM on December 8, 2010 [21 favorites]
But without *some* drama, relationships are boring and predictable. All the nooks and crannies have been found out and there seems no need to search for some new nuance or novelty. I think we often inadvertently aim for this in relationships, because we are taught that drama is bad.
So how do you meet your tension/drama/excitement needs in a healthy way? It's scary as fuck is all I really know. You gotta put yourself out there, for one. Constantly pushing boundaries, exploring things, trying things that you might not enjoy, or that one of you likes but the other one doesn't. Creating suspense, surprises, silly games...all of these things are wonderful, but they introduce the possibility of conflict, and could potentially advance an inevitable demise.
But it's all worthwhile. And way more fun than worrying in isolation.
I know that's not the most targeted answer to your question. I just got the sense from reading what you wrote that it may be the case that you both are stifling under stalling. What you need is some excitement so that you can be in this moment, now, feeling it out...rather than planning for the next one and feeling apprehensive that it might be too boring when you get there.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:38 PM on December 8, 2010 [21 favorites]
I think this is really a question about how to come to terms with being in a long-term romantic relationship.
This sounds sad to me, because I'm reading this as "How do I settle with being in a relationship where my partner is great now, but possibly not what I want in the future?"
If you think he's going to take the lead because you aren't, chances are that it won't happen at all. You have to be more vocal with what you want. Make him aware of your needs and if he's a keeper, he will adjust his behavior to take care of them.
The ambivalence you're feeling is probably coming from uncertainty of expectations; you need to talk to each other more. The fact you are unsure of whether this is a sexually and emotionally exclusive relationship is a big sign pointing in that direction. Engage in conversation with him about what you want, concerns you have regarding him and vice versa in this relationship, at this moment. The kid stuff can wait; when you feel more strongly about wanting to be with this guy for the long run, you can bring it up then.
It may take a few conversations or it may take only one, but understanding what the other person wants/needs in a relationship, how those wants/needs change over time, and how much the other is willing to work to address them.
posted by mlo at 12:53 PM on December 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
This sounds sad to me, because I'm reading this as "How do I settle with being in a relationship where my partner is great now, but possibly not what I want in the future?"
If you think he's going to take the lead because you aren't, chances are that it won't happen at all. You have to be more vocal with what you want. Make him aware of your needs and if he's a keeper, he will adjust his behavior to take care of them.
The ambivalence you're feeling is probably coming from uncertainty of expectations; you need to talk to each other more. The fact you are unsure of whether this is a sexually and emotionally exclusive relationship is a big sign pointing in that direction. Engage in conversation with him about what you want, concerns you have regarding him and vice versa in this relationship, at this moment. The kid stuff can wait; when you feel more strongly about wanting to be with this guy for the long run, you can bring it up then.
It may take a few conversations or it may take only one, but understanding what the other person wants/needs in a relationship, how those wants/needs change over time, and how much the other is willing to work to address them.
posted by mlo at 12:53 PM on December 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
You know, I actually had great success with couples therapy for dealing with the ambivalence thing. It was a way of communicating what was not working for me, and while I thought it was just pointless exposition, all of a sudden, multiple opportunities arose where the way we responded totally cured that discontent. I've had someone else tell me that it cured their ambivalence by making them confront "relationship perfectionism" and stop imagining some ideal that doesn't exist and using that idealism to escape real intimacy. So, whether the issue is internal or external, it could help.
I'll vote against "do nothing and wait and see." If I could do it again, I'd get us to therapy about three years sooner. You can market it as a preventative maintenance "things are going great, let's keep it that way" measure. Even if you break up due to early-20s whatever, you personally, and he personally, will learn a lot that will set you up well for the future.
I know, therapy is the most recommended thing ever. But that is because it is truly great to enter a special space and work with an expert who professionally helps people better communicate and understand themselves and one another. I'm not saying "omg you need therapy." Just that therapy is awesome for this purpose and many others if you can find the time and money.
posted by salvia at 1:35 PM on December 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'll vote against "do nothing and wait and see." If I could do it again, I'd get us to therapy about three years sooner. You can market it as a preventative maintenance "things are going great, let's keep it that way" measure. Even if you break up due to early-20s whatever, you personally, and he personally, will learn a lot that will set you up well for the future.
I know, therapy is the most recommended thing ever. But that is because it is truly great to enter a special space and work with an expert who professionally helps people better communicate and understand themselves and one another. I'm not saying "omg you need therapy." Just that therapy is awesome for this purpose and many others if you can find the time and money.
posted by salvia at 1:35 PM on December 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you want kids but probably not with him, break up now. Every day you waste with Mr. Wrong is a lost opportunity to be out there meeting Mr. Right.
It's probably going to take a while to find the father of your future children and you'll probably want some time alone together to bond as a couple before you launch into babymaking ... with that lead time, you're already looking at not starting to have kids until you're in your early 30s.
So, if you want to have more than one kid, and you want to have them before you hit the high-risk age of 35+, then you need to start working toward that now.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:12 PM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's probably going to take a while to find the father of your future children and you'll probably want some time alone together to bond as a couple before you launch into babymaking ... with that lead time, you're already looking at not starting to have kids until you're in your early 30s.
So, if you want to have more than one kid, and you want to have them before you hit the high-risk age of 35+, then you need to start working toward that now.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:12 PM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by parmanparman at 11:12 AM on December 8, 2010