Looks crazy, actually sick?
December 7, 2010 11:35 AM Subscribe
What are some famous cases of apparently psychotic and/or criminal behavior that later turns out to have a more medically-based alternate explanation? Thinking of the Charles Whitman case here, interested in others, especially any epilepsy related ones. Thanks.
In Nancy Spungen's biography, her mother (the author) says that Nancy's behavior was caused by neurological damage at birth, (though no one understood it at the time), and describes the medical procedures that were done in detail. It's a good read; she describes what it was like to live with Nancy growing up, psychotic breaks and all.
posted by Melismata at 11:52 AM on December 7, 2010
posted by Melismata at 11:52 AM on December 7, 2010
Brain tumor 'caused pedophilia'.
Doctors say pedophile lost urge after brain tumor removed.
Somehow these stories made brain tumors seem even less appealing.
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 11:57 AM on December 7, 2010
Doctors say pedophile lost urge after brain tumor removed.
Somehow these stories made brain tumors seem even less appealing.
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 11:57 AM on December 7, 2010
Vincent Van Gogh - self harm not based on jealous rage; possibly syphilitic brain damage.
posted by wowbobwow at 12:03 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by wowbobwow at 12:03 PM on December 7, 2010
According to my partner, I'm a perfect candidate for a homicidal somnambulism defense. (Which in truth, freaks me out -- I'm thinking of the case of Tobias Wong, who some speculate committed suicide in his sleep.)
posted by lesli212 at 12:04 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by lesli212 at 12:04 PM on December 7, 2010
Here is one of a sucessful defense using PMS. There seem to be several, according to google.
posted by annsunny at 12:09 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by annsunny at 12:09 PM on December 7, 2010
The Madness of King George. Terrific movie -- he is now thought to have had porphyria.
posted by keener_sounds at 12:10 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by keener_sounds at 12:10 PM on December 7, 2010
There are some famous cases of collective psychosis or group hysteria, but I only know of one with outcomes that could be considered inhumane: Salem witch trials.
posted by wowbobwow at 12:29 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by wowbobwow at 12:29 PM on December 7, 2010
IIRC, the kids who shot up the Columbine schools were thought to have gone off anti-depressants just before(?).
posted by goethean at 12:50 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by goethean at 12:50 PM on December 7, 2010
The language of your question is misleading. Charles Whitman was psychotic; as his autopsy suggests, his psychosis may have been the result of a glioblastoma and/or amphetamine abuse, but that doesn't make him any less psychotic.
There's no bright line between "mentally ill" and "physically ill," and there's no bright line between "criminal behavior" and "physical illness." People may manifest mental illness, or indeed criminal behavior, as the result of an identifiable physiological issue, but that doesn't make their behaviors qualitatively different from those with a less-clear etiology.
The work of Lonnie Athens, particularly The Creation of Dangerous Violent Criminals, discusses in depth the high prevalence of neurological injury and compromise among violent offenders.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:53 PM on December 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's no bright line between "mentally ill" and "physically ill," and there's no bright line between "criminal behavior" and "physical illness." People may manifest mental illness, or indeed criminal behavior, as the result of an identifiable physiological issue, but that doesn't make their behaviors qualitatively different from those with a less-clear etiology.
The work of Lonnie Athens, particularly The Creation of Dangerous Violent Criminals, discusses in depth the high prevalence of neurological injury and compromise among violent offenders.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:53 PM on December 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
WWE Wrestler Chris Benoit murdered his family and then killed himself. According to experts who examined his brain after his death:
"Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient."[107] He was reported to have had an advanced form of dementia, similar to the brains of four retired NFL players who had suffered multiple concussions, sank into depression, and harmed themselves or others.
posted by SamanthaK at 3:01 PM on December 7, 2010
"Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient."[107] He was reported to have had an advanced form of dementia, similar to the brains of four retired NFL players who had suffered multiple concussions, sank into depression, and harmed themselves or others.
posted by SamanthaK at 3:01 PM on December 7, 2010
Ergot poisoning has been blamed for a lot of historical craziness, including the Salem Witch Trials and The Great Fear.
It's kind of tough to tell all these years later, though and there's a lot of dispute about it.
posted by lumpenprole at 3:07 PM on December 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's kind of tough to tell all these years later, though and there's a lot of dispute about it.
posted by lumpenprole at 3:07 PM on December 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, yes and no, Sidhedevil. I have acted out violently and unconsciously, and had 'lucid' conversations that seemed reasonable to people I knew relatively well, but were filled with absolute fiction.
jimmysmits, another way to get information on this subject--depending on the kind of 'famous' you mean here--is to look for reports of deaths of people with epilepsy while in custody or while being taken into custody.
If you're actually looking for information on the plausibility of complex behaviors in peri-ictal or ictal states, I recommend Orrin Devinsky's book on epilepsy and seizure disorders. It's aimed at patients, but it's a pretty good overview of how most types of seizures and seizure disorders affect everyday living and behavior.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 3:07 PM on December 7, 2010
jimmysmits, another way to get information on this subject--depending on the kind of 'famous' you mean here--is to look for reports of deaths of people with epilepsy while in custody or while being taken into custody.
If you're actually looking for information on the plausibility of complex behaviors in peri-ictal or ictal states, I recommend Orrin Devinsky's book on epilepsy and seizure disorders. It's aimed at patients, but it's a pretty good overview of how most types of seizures and seizure disorders affect everyday living and behavior.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 3:07 PM on December 7, 2010
Well, yes and no, Sidhedevil. I have acted out violently and unconsciously, and had 'lucid' conversations that seemed reasonable to people I knew relatively well, but were filled with absolute fiction.
I don't see the point you're making here? I have had similar confabulated conversations with people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia and people who were diagnosed with kidney failure.
The idea that some psychotic behavior is not "medical" doesn't make sense to me. It's all medical. It's all physiological. That's the issue with the way jimmysmits is framing the question.
Of course, not all criminal behavior is psychotic, and not all psychotic behavior is criminal.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:16 PM on December 7, 2010
I don't see the point you're making here? I have had similar confabulated conversations with people who were diagnosed with schizophrenia and people who were diagnosed with kidney failure.
The idea that some psychotic behavior is not "medical" doesn't make sense to me. It's all medical. It's all physiological. That's the issue with the way jimmysmits is framing the question.
Of course, not all criminal behavior is psychotic, and not all psychotic behavior is criminal.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:16 PM on December 7, 2010
Woody Guthrie. Was diagnosed as a schizophrenic, alcoholic, etc before it was determined that he had Huntington's Disease.
posted by MeiraV at 4:53 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by MeiraV at 4:53 PM on December 7, 2010
King George probably having porphyria is my favorite example of this.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:28 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by thebrokedown at 6:28 PM on December 7, 2010
University Of Pennsylvania Football Player [Who Committed Suicide Unexpectedly, With No Previous Signs of Depression] Had Signs Of Trauma-Induced Brain Disease. What's particularly scary is that he was only 21 years old and hadn't been playing football that long, and yet the cumulative damage from all the concussions had already been so devastating. Apparently, this is far more common in football players than generally realized, and had his parents not insisted on having an autopsy for him, his case might have been written off as mere college-age depression. (See also the Chris Benoit wrestler-turned-murderer case.)
I also remember hearing of cases where several serial killers and/or psychopaths were shown to have been in serious car crashes when they were younger, which can cause hard-to-detect frontal lobe brain damage, which impairs one's ability to have empathy. But I don't have a cite for you at the moment.
And of course there's the case of Phineas Gage.
posted by Asparagirl at 8:09 PM on December 7, 2010
I also remember hearing of cases where several serial killers and/or psychopaths were shown to have been in serious car crashes when they were younger, which can cause hard-to-detect frontal lobe brain damage, which impairs one's ability to have empathy. But I don't have a cite for you at the moment.
And of course there's the case of Phineas Gage.
posted by Asparagirl at 8:09 PM on December 7, 2010
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posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:37 AM on December 7, 2010