Is leaving a bar with a guy and his friends along always a stupid decision?
November 22, 2010 5:43 AM Subscribe
One Night Stand Protocol...is leaving a bar with a guy and his friends along always a stupid decision?
I am a sophomore in college in Boston and a little while ago I went up to Montreal for a weekend with four friends of mine. We're all female and we decided before we went that we wouldn't get separated. At a bar/dance club, I met a group of people and started dancing with them. I ended up dancing mostly with one guy who was cute, nice and didn't give off any sketchiness. We didn't talk a lot, because of the noise, but we talked enough that I know he was midtwenties and he knew I was a sophomore in college. After a little while, his group of friends was leaving for a different party and he asked if I wanted to come along. I said no, because I didn't want to leave my friends, he asked a couple more times without offering to take my friends too. Before he left, he asked if he could kiss me, we did, he said I was awesome and left.
I've had a boyfriend and a girlfriend before so I'm somewhat experienced with sex. I've never hooked up with anyone for a one night stand, but I would be interested. I wanted to go with him but even if I hadn't promised to stay with my friends, going off alone seems like a stupid decision. However, I tend to be generally suspicious of guys at frat parties and such, and he didn't set off my creep alarm and neither did any of his friends. My friends had briefly danced in a group with them, but they didn't want to dance for the most part, so I could understand why he didn't invite the whole group.
Basically, I want to know how one night stands work. What's normal, what should make me run far away.
I am a sophomore in college in Boston and a little while ago I went up to Montreal for a weekend with four friends of mine. We're all female and we decided before we went that we wouldn't get separated. At a bar/dance club, I met a group of people and started dancing with them. I ended up dancing mostly with one guy who was cute, nice and didn't give off any sketchiness. We didn't talk a lot, because of the noise, but we talked enough that I know he was midtwenties and he knew I was a sophomore in college. After a little while, his group of friends was leaving for a different party and he asked if I wanted to come along. I said no, because I didn't want to leave my friends, he asked a couple more times without offering to take my friends too. Before he left, he asked if he could kiss me, we did, he said I was awesome and left.
I've had a boyfriend and a girlfriend before so I'm somewhat experienced with sex. I've never hooked up with anyone for a one night stand, but I would be interested. I wanted to go with him but even if I hadn't promised to stay with my friends, going off alone seems like a stupid decision. However, I tend to be generally suspicious of guys at frat parties and such, and he didn't set off my creep alarm and neither did any of his friends. My friends had briefly danced in a group with them, but they didn't want to dance for the most part, so I could understand why he didn't invite the whole group.
Basically, I want to know how one night stands work. What's normal, what should make me run far away.
Should have asked your friends along.
Added bonus that if he says no to that, you know to leave well alone.
posted by fire&wings at 5:56 AM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]
Added bonus that if he says no to that, you know to leave well alone.
posted by fire&wings at 5:56 AM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]
That is the stuff that CSI shows are formed around.
You made the right decision, 100%.
I'll spend the rest of today picking up all the red flags that got dropped here!
posted by HuronBob at 5:59 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
You made the right decision, 100%.
I'll spend the rest of today picking up all the red flags that got dropped here!
posted by HuronBob at 5:59 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
If I was a female sophomore (and I knew what I knwo now as a 40 year old male) I'd never take that chance. You just never know what you're getting into. Best to wait until you get to know him somewhat better. Chances are good that it'll work out fine, but there's always that chance it'll be horrible in some unimaginable way. Why bother taking that chance?
posted by Blake at 6:00 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Blake at 6:00 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
That's why you make the agreement to not leave separately beforehand. Once you've had a few beers and are all getting turned on by someone, saying no is a lot harder. In your case (strange city, no overlaps in your social circles at all, his large group separating you from your friends) I think you made the right decision. Probably things would have been fine, but who knows?
But yeah, the mechanics are pretty much like you'd think. Some sort of semi-transparent excuse to get the other person home: "Hey, want to grab a cup of coffee at my place?" And remember, you can't count on him to have condoms handy, so if this is in your list of possible outcomes for the night, carry your own. Then you have the possible awkwardness (a huge issue for some people, not at all for others) about whether you should stay the whole night or leave right after the sex.
posted by Forktine at 6:01 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
But yeah, the mechanics are pretty much like you'd think. Some sort of semi-transparent excuse to get the other person home: "Hey, want to grab a cup of coffee at my place?" And remember, you can't count on him to have condoms handy, so if this is in your list of possible outcomes for the night, carry your own. Then you have the possible awkwardness (a huge issue for some people, not at all for others) about whether you should stay the whole night or leave right after the sex.
posted by Forktine at 6:01 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
And, to answer your question.. it isn't really about "one night stands", the same rules apply if you were asked to go get ice creme.
Don't go off alone in a strange city.
Don't go off alone in a foreign country.
Don't go off alone with a "group" of guys.
Don't go off alone with someone you know nothing about.
A "one night stand" means you spent one night together, it could be with someone you've known for years, it does NOT equal going off after meeting someone for one night.
posted by HuronBob at 6:01 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Don't go off alone in a strange city.
Don't go off alone in a foreign country.
Don't go off alone with a "group" of guys.
Don't go off alone with someone you know nothing about.
A "one night stand" means you spent one night together, it could be with someone you've known for years, it does NOT equal going off after meeting someone for one night.
posted by HuronBob at 6:01 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
You were extraordinarily smart for making the decision beforehand, and for sticking to it. Bravo.
Also, all available data suggests that "creep alarms" are notoriously unreliable. Don't bet your personal safety on yours.
posted by DWRoelands at 6:16 AM on November 22, 2010 [10 favorites]
Also, all available data suggests that "creep alarms" are notoriously unreliable. Don't bet your personal safety on yours.
posted by DWRoelands at 6:16 AM on November 22, 2010 [10 favorites]
You could have asked your friends if they wanted to go hang out with some guys.
But yes, if you came with a group and agreed to stay together, then stay together.
Otherwise, always, ALWAYS, let someone know where you're going and let the person you're going with know that someone else knows that you're with them. Introduce him to your friends, even if it's only for two minutes, so they can see him and feel him out, then talk to them real quick before making the final decision. If they say he's creepy and you think he isn't, go with what your friends say. Yes, hormones may be racing, but listen to your friends anyway.
If you're alone, call your friends (in front of the person perhaps so they know that someone else knows where you're going) and give your friends a quick rundown on your plans and the guy's name. If he's cool, this shouldn't be a problem. If he gives you any shit for this, you might want to rethink your plans.
posted by nomadicink at 6:19 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
But yes, if you came with a group and agreed to stay together, then stay together.
Otherwise, always, ALWAYS, let someone know where you're going and let the person you're going with know that someone else knows that you're with them. Introduce him to your friends, even if it's only for two minutes, so they can see him and feel him out, then talk to them real quick before making the final decision. If they say he's creepy and you think he isn't, go with what your friends say. Yes, hormones may be racing, but listen to your friends anyway.
If you're alone, call your friends (in front of the person perhaps so they know that someone else knows where you're going) and give your friends a quick rundown on your plans and the guy's name. If he's cool, this shouldn't be a problem. If he gives you any shit for this, you might want to rethink your plans.
posted by nomadicink at 6:19 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear is recommended over and over here, and according to that book,
all available data suggests that "creep alarms" are notoriously unreliable
could not be more wrong. DO listen to your personal heebie-jeebie meter.
posted by kmennie at 6:23 AM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
all available data suggests that "creep alarms" are notoriously unreliable
could not be more wrong. DO listen to your personal heebie-jeebie meter.
posted by kmennie at 6:23 AM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
all available data suggests that "creep alarms" are notoriously unreliable
could not be more wrong. DO listen to your personal heebie-jeebie meter.
I think that person meant that the OP shouldn't rely on a "pass" of the creep alarm - the OP said he didn't seem creepy, and the commenter meant "didn't seem creepy" is unreliable...
posted by Pax at 6:35 AM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]
could not be more wrong. DO listen to your personal heebie-jeebie meter.
I think that person meant that the OP shouldn't rely on a "pass" of the creep alarm - the OP said he didn't seem creepy, and the commenter meant "didn't seem creepy" is unreliable...
posted by Pax at 6:35 AM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]
could not be more wrong. DO listen to your personal heebie-jeebie meter.
Well, yes, of course you should listen to your heebie-jeebie meter if it goes off. I think the point of Gavin de Becker's book is that one shouldn't feel inhibited about making a decision purely on the basis of this sort of nebulous feeling that something isn't quite right.
On the other hand, DWRoelands' point above is that even if your heebie-jeebie meter doesn't go off, one should stick to certain risk levels that are agreed upon beforehand, because we truly are notoriously bad at discerning "creeps". Don't forget that the neighbors of serial killers always talk about what a nice guy he seemed to be!
posted by peacheater at 6:45 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, yes, of course you should listen to your heebie-jeebie meter if it goes off. I think the point of Gavin de Becker's book is that one shouldn't feel inhibited about making a decision purely on the basis of this sort of nebulous feeling that something isn't quite right.
On the other hand, DWRoelands' point above is that even if your heebie-jeebie meter doesn't go off, one should stick to certain risk levels that are agreed upon beforehand, because we truly are notoriously bad at discerning "creeps". Don't forget that the neighbors of serial killers always talk about what a nice guy he seemed to be!
posted by peacheater at 6:45 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't go off alone in a strange city.
Don't go off alone in a foreign country.
While I agree with the gist of everyone else in this thread, I wanted to speak to this.
There is nothing scary or dangerous about being a woman alone in a "strange" city or a "foreign" country. Especially if we're talking about Montreal, Canada. While it's good you agreed beforehand to stay together as a group for the evening, and you definitely did good in not going off with some random guy and his friends to some other party somewhere else in a city you're not familiar with (even if things had gone fine, what happens when you wake up out in Longueil the next afternoon and have no idea where your friends are or how to get home?).
But don't let that sense of safety and propriety keep you from having adventures. Of course it's OK to explore a new city and/or a foreign country on your own.
Nomadicink's advice is spot on, by the way.
posted by Sara C. at 7:09 AM on November 22, 2010 [6 favorites]
Don't go off alone in a foreign country.
While I agree with the gist of everyone else in this thread, I wanted to speak to this.
There is nothing scary or dangerous about being a woman alone in a "strange" city or a "foreign" country. Especially if we're talking about Montreal, Canada. While it's good you agreed beforehand to stay together as a group for the evening, and you definitely did good in not going off with some random guy and his friends to some other party somewhere else in a city you're not familiar with (even if things had gone fine, what happens when you wake up out in Longueil the next afternoon and have no idea where your friends are or how to get home?).
But don't let that sense of safety and propriety keep you from having adventures. Of course it's OK to explore a new city and/or a foreign country on your own.
Nomadicink's advice is spot on, by the way.
posted by Sara C. at 7:09 AM on November 22, 2010 [6 favorites]
him not inviting your friends is an enormous red flag!
posted by Neekee at 7:31 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Neekee at 7:31 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
I said no, because I didn't want to leave my friends, he asked a couple more times without offering to take my friends too.
That's creepy. The big thing is you just always want an out and the ability to get in touch with someone -- working cellphone, cab fare home, etc.
I remember seeing a comic (I think it was Sylvia) where the title was "Sylvia's Advice to A Young Girl" and it consisted of:
Don't go out with a boy who files his teeth
Don't drink milk that has become thick
So I guess I'd just add the cellphone and cab fare to that solid advice.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:37 AM on November 22, 2010
That's creepy. The big thing is you just always want an out and the ability to get in touch with someone -- working cellphone, cab fare home, etc.
I remember seeing a comic (I think it was Sylvia) where the title was "Sylvia's Advice to A Young Girl" and it consisted of:
So I guess I'd just add the cellphone and cab fare to that solid advice.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:37 AM on November 22, 2010
is leaving a bar with a guy and his friends along always a stupid decision?
Yes.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:15 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:15 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you had gone off with him, alone, I think by far the most likely thing that would have happened is that he would have taken you back to his place and you would have had consensual sex with him. You are not very clear whether that is something that you would have wanted, but that is how this generally works. It is only a "stupid" decision if that is not what you wanted to happen, in which case it's probably better called a "bad" decision.
In this particular case, I can see a few wrinkles. You promised your friends you wouldn't do this, which is a pretty good reason not to do it. If you don't have a condom with you, there's no guarantee he'd have one, and you should use a condom when having casual sex with a stranger. Waking up the next morning can be awkward, and if you don't have cab fare transportation can be a problem. (The idea, however, that an English-speaking adult can fall into the bowels of Montreal and be swallowed up by the city's essential unnavigability is really absurd.)
Finally, there are negative social connotations sometimes attached to women who engage in casual sex. You are obviously already aware of those since you posted as 'anonymous.'
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Sockpuppetry at 8:18 AM on November 22, 2010
In this particular case, I can see a few wrinkles. You promised your friends you wouldn't do this, which is a pretty good reason not to do it. If you don't have a condom with you, there's no guarantee he'd have one, and you should use a condom when having casual sex with a stranger. Waking up the next morning can be awkward, and if you don't have cab fare transportation can be a problem. (The idea, however, that an English-speaking adult can fall into the bowels of Montreal and be swallowed up by the city's essential unnavigability is really absurd.)
Finally, there are negative social connotations sometimes attached to women who engage in casual sex. You are obviously already aware of those since you posted as 'anonymous.'
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Sockpuppetry at 8:18 AM on November 22, 2010
Going off what DarlingBri said, I'd say the typical protocol is one on one time. If he wants to leave your friends behind, he should also want to leave his friends behind to spend time alone with you. If he was looking for more social party time, he would have invited your friends. The fact he wanted to separate you from your safety net while keeping his is sketch.
posted by Carlotta Bananas at 8:27 AM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Carlotta Bananas at 8:27 AM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]
Since you can't know whether or not you're going to end up in some situation that results in Liam Neeson having to come get you-- and Liam Neeson's not going to come get you anyhow-- it's probably not worth the chance. There are plenty of guys out there whom you can negotiate casual sex from in a much less pressured situation, on your own terms. should you want a hookup.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 8:42 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 8:42 AM on November 22, 2010
Although we can only really debate what his motives were, for safety's sake, you made the right decision not to go along.
My tips are:
Definitely don't do this in a strange location - wherever you are, you want to be able to find your way back home safely and easily. Heck, I wouldn't advise a one night stand in any place other than your own home because there you know where the knives are and how far a jump it is to the ground should you need to escape through a window.
Be prepared with whatever protection from STDs you might need. Don't assume your potential fling will be prepared.
And whenever you do it, it should be on your own terms. If you have roommates who may look askance at what you're doing, that might be a clue that it's not a good idea.
Be safe out there!
posted by metarkest at 9:02 AM on November 22, 2010
My tips are:
Definitely don't do this in a strange location - wherever you are, you want to be able to find your way back home safely and easily. Heck, I wouldn't advise a one night stand in any place other than your own home because there you know where the knives are and how far a jump it is to the ground should you need to escape through a window.
Be prepared with whatever protection from STDs you might need. Don't assume your potential fling will be prepared.
And whenever you do it, it should be on your own terms. If you have roommates who may look askance at what you're doing, that might be a clue that it's not a good idea.
Be safe out there!
posted by metarkest at 9:02 AM on November 22, 2010
Yep, going off alone with a bunch of drunk people you don't know to a somewhat vague place is likely trouble. You could alternately have asked your friends along, gotten his number/email, or made plans to meet up at X public place and Y time. Don't be afraid to ask for what you want; one night stands can be good practice for this.
I wanted to reinforce Sara C. - I am female and travelled alone in countries where I didn't speak the language when I was 20, and it was fantastic. If you display decent common sense at home, you'll probably choose wisely when travelling as well. It sounds like you're doing fine on both being safe and knowing how hookups work. Go have adventures!
posted by momus_window at 9:34 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wanted to reinforce Sara C. - I am female and travelled alone in countries where I didn't speak the language when I was 20, and it was fantastic. If you display decent common sense at home, you'll probably choose wisely when travelling as well. It sounds like you're doing fine on both being safe and knowing how hookups work. Go have adventures!
posted by momus_window at 9:34 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am the Apostle of One-Night Stands, because I enjoyed them a lot when I was single, but on my own terms. Breaking agreements I had made with friends? No. Going off with a group of men where I was the only woman? No. Going off with someone to his apartment where I had no idea how to get back to where I was staying? No.
You did the right thing in this situation. That is not to say that traveling alone isn't awesome, because it is (despite challenging). That is not to say that one-night stands aren't awesome, because they are (despite having to be mindful of how the whole thing is going to work).
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:36 AM on November 22, 2010
You did the right thing in this situation. That is not to say that traveling alone isn't awesome, because it is (despite challenging). That is not to say that one-night stands aren't awesome, because they are (despite having to be mindful of how the whole thing is going to work).
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:36 AM on November 22, 2010
Don't get me wrong about the strange city/foreign country remark folks.. I'm all for travel..and that wasn't a slam on my Canadian friends (although, they are a bit odd sometimes!) My remark was meant to state what others have said. Being in an unknown (to you) location puts you at a huge disadvantage should things go wrong somehow... extra care is called for, and a more conservative mind set.
posted by HuronBob at 12:11 PM on November 22, 2010
posted by HuronBob at 12:11 PM on November 22, 2010
You were extraordinarily smart for making the decision beforehand, and for sticking to it. Bravo.
Quoted for truth.
You have an amazingly useful head start in life because you are able and willing to stick to your guns when your personal is at stake.
It's not just your actually safety that's at stake, it's your feeling of safety that's valuable.
If you don't feel safe, you are less likely to be having a good time. So good for you, for listening to your inner alarm and realizing that while this guy and his pals might have been totally innocent, the possibility that they weren't is not one that you need to be carrying around with you as you enjoy a night on the town.
Also, once you've made one risky choice with no negative consequence, it's easier to pile additional indiscretion onto that one choice. Nothing bad happened the first time I did this.... his friends didn't axe murder me, I'm sure it's ok if we go back to his place alone... Sure, I'll drink that unfamiliar concoction....
posted by bilabial at 12:23 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Quoted for truth.
You have an amazingly useful head start in life because you are able and willing to stick to your guns when your personal is at stake.
It's not just your actually safety that's at stake, it's your feeling of safety that's valuable.
If you don't feel safe, you are less likely to be having a good time. So good for you, for listening to your inner alarm and realizing that while this guy and his pals might have been totally innocent, the possibility that they weren't is not one that you need to be carrying around with you as you enjoy a night on the town.
Also, once you've made one risky choice with no negative consequence, it's easier to pile additional indiscretion onto that one choice. Nothing bad happened the first time I did this.... his friends didn't axe murder me, I'm sure it's ok if we go back to his place alone... Sure, I'll drink that unfamiliar concoction....
posted by bilabial at 12:23 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
You definitely made the right call. Let's look at the decision matrix on this one:
1. You go with the guy and his friends. You have a pleasant time.
2. You go with the guy and his friends. You... let's just say "do not have a pleasant time" and leave it at that, shall we? You know the risks. They are real.
So you're gambling "pleasant time" against "the worst night of your life."
Being an adult means calculating risk management. You calculated correctly this time! Remember that, next time.
Especially with a guy who's pushy, like that guy was. That "keeps asking after I said no" thing? That's a red flag. A big one.
posted by ErikaB at 12:42 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
1. You go with the guy and his friends. You have a pleasant time.
2. You go with the guy and his friends. You... let's just say "do not have a pleasant time" and leave it at that, shall we? You know the risks. They are real.
So you're gambling "pleasant time" against "the worst night of your life."
Being an adult means calculating risk management. You calculated correctly this time! Remember that, next time.
Especially with a guy who's pushy, like that guy was. That "keeps asking after I said no" thing? That's a red flag. A big one.
posted by ErikaB at 12:42 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
I approve of ErikaB's decision matrix. Bonus point - I have been out several times with groups of other groups where the intent to not get separated was stated or implied, then had to deal with some of these ladies reneging on this agreement. This put me in the awkward situation of trying to discern whether someone was too trashed to be making a good decision, being pressured by a guy I don't know, or, in the case of one memorable New Year's Eve, chasing someone all over a club as they wandered off with one guy while the other guy was worried and wanted to go find her. Anyway, my point is that you maintained credibility with your friends which I think is important.
posted by kat518 at 4:52 PM on November 22, 2010
posted by kat518 at 4:52 PM on November 22, 2010
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I wouldn't have "run far away" and I'm not saying the guy was a creep. I am saying you need sensible guidelines - think of them as boundaries if that helps - and if really nice people can't comply with them, fondly wish them farewell.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:52 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]