What was the frakking plan?
November 15, 2010 2:51 PM Subscribe
Bet settling filter Re: Battlestar Galatica and the idea that the Cylons had a plan.
The opening crawl consistently implied that there was a secret plan of sorts, or at least a plan that had yet to be revealed to the audience. So was that plan ever revealed, either in the series or by the series creator? If so, can you provide links to synopsis of the episode or conversation with the creators where this occurred? Conversely, if the plan was never revealed or the idea dropped, is there interview with the creators where they admit it was a mcguffin or that they had an idea that didn't work out and they dropped it?
I'm not looking for generic links to the show, but SPECIFIC LINKS that can be used to cite an answer to the question in this post, thanks!
The opening crawl consistently implied that there was a secret plan of sorts, or at least a plan that had yet to be revealed to the audience. So was that plan ever revealed, either in the series or by the series creator? If so, can you provide links to synopsis of the episode or conversation with the creators where this occurred? Conversely, if the plan was never revealed or the idea dropped, is there interview with the creators where they admit it was a mcguffin or that they had an idea that didn't work out and they dropped it?
I'm not looking for generic links to the show, but SPECIFIC LINKS that can be used to cite an answer to the question in this post, thanks!
Here is a link to the "prequel" episode The Plan. It came out after the series was completed. It shows what happens in the initial attacks from the Cylon perspective.
From what I can gather (I may be wrong since I haven't watched that episode), the plan was essentially all the steps the Cylons took to wipe out humanity.
posted by jasonhong at 3:01 PM on November 15, 2010
From what I can gather (I may be wrong since I haven't watched that episode), the plan was essentially all the steps the Cylons took to wipe out humanity.
posted by jasonhong at 3:01 PM on November 15, 2010
I haven't actually seen it- I didn't watch anything post-series finale (such as any of Caprica, or any of the TV movies) but there was a post-series movie that aired in January 2010 called "The Plan". Plenty more plot points from the Battlestar Wiki. You could waste hours reading that site, btw.
Again I haven't seen it, but it sounds like the basic "plan" at least from the Cavils was to make his creators be repentent, and to punish human evil with human suffering (just spitballing here, but that sounds very Old Testament-y). The actual series end seems to suggest a larger "plan" was driven by a one true diety; the "it's happened before" part is because both Galacticans and Cylons were just variations of ever-more sophisticated "robots" that were able to reproduce and make a single new species, "us"... and that we're now building new sets of robots to eventual fight and make piece with before creating yet another species.
But honestly, I found the finale so lackluster I kind of tuned it out and forgot about everything BSG after that.
posted by hincandenza at 3:06 PM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Again I haven't seen it, but it sounds like the basic "plan" at least from the Cavils was to make his creators be repentent, and to punish human evil with human suffering (just spitballing here, but that sounds very Old Testament-y). The actual series end seems to suggest a larger "plan" was driven by a one true diety; the "it's happened before" part is because both Galacticans and Cylons were just variations of ever-more sophisticated "robots" that were able to reproduce and make a single new species, "us"... and that we're now building new sets of robots to eventual fight and make piece with before creating yet another species.
But honestly, I found the finale so lackluster I kind of tuned it out and forgot about everything BSG after that.
posted by hincandenza at 3:06 PM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Aaand this is why we preview, boys and girls. Damned fast typers...
posted by hincandenza at 3:06 PM on November 15, 2010
posted by hincandenza at 3:06 PM on November 15, 2010
A better question is, "Did the writers have a plan?" I think the answer is a big old "NO!" Compare to a show like Babylon 5 where the series story arc was well planned in advance, and the whole series follows the traditional plot development. Seasons 1/2 are background and buildup, 3 advances the major conflicts, 4 brings the conflicts to a peak and resolves them, and 5 winds down the story. Did BSG have that? Within a season, arguably yes, but across the whole series certainly not.
posted by sbutler at 3:45 PM on November 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by sbutler at 3:45 PM on November 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The real irony of The Plan, however, is that the Cylons didn't actually have one after the fall of the colonies -- when one of the other Cylons asks him about "the plan", Cavil replies that humanity was supposed to be dead already. Everything after that was improv... hey, looks like the Cylons work the same way the BSG writers' room does!
That said, The Plan is more than worth watching for a) the over-the-top Cylon lulz and b) the sheer amount of Dean Stockwell awesomeness in it. The producers basically handed him the movie and went to lunch, which is probably the best decision they could have made, at that point...
posted by vorfeed at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
That said, The Plan is more than worth watching for a) the over-the-top Cylon lulz and b) the sheer amount of Dean Stockwell awesomeness in it. The producers basically handed him the movie and went to lunch, which is probably the best decision they could have made, at that point...
posted by vorfeed at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
After watching The Plan, whenever you see "…and they have a plan" you end up mentally appending "but it was a pretty crap one, and it all quickly went to crap".
I think The Plan was essentially an exercise in retcon. As sbulter says, the writers didn't really have a plan themselves, so the idea that the Cylons could have is a bit laughable.
posted by damonism at 3:53 PM on November 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think The Plan was essentially an exercise in retcon. As sbulter says, the writers didn't really have a plan themselves, so the idea that the Cylons could have is a bit laughable.
posted by damonism at 3:53 PM on November 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Spoilers for last episode. Obviously.
Up to the last episode, my friends were still desperately convinced that there was 'a plan' and the writers would make the incredible getaway/battleplan/wrap the story up.
I... had started to doubt, but lived in hope.
After the last episode, we concluded that, well, I was a little wrong, the writers had not pulled that out of their ass... nope, they'd gone so far as to shove *us* in instead.
All the foreshadowing, prophecies, magic cylon baby? Had diddly squat to do with it.
It was if all the writers had been sent to a rather naff Christian camp, where they all high-fived each other for poor scenes and plotholes - 'cause it's got Angels! Clap hands every body! We're putting the Deus in Deus Ex Machina!
So that's our conclusion on the basis of 'the plan'.
We still recommend the series to others, but kind of cough a lot about the end of the last season. Frankly, it would have ended better on the last episode before the writers strike. We tell people to end on that, actually.
That really felt like 'an end'. And paradoxically, it would have been more fun for the fanbase - you can imagine what would happen to them next, the characters still existing, but with an unknown endpoint - like star trek or something.
Someone else could have come along in good time and actually pulled everything together into a coherent continuation or finally.
posted by Elysum at 4:13 PM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Up to the last episode, my friends were still desperately convinced that there was 'a plan' and the writers would make the incredible getaway/battleplan/wrap the story up.
I... had started to doubt, but lived in hope.
After the last episode, we concluded that, well, I was a little wrong, the writers had not pulled that out of their ass... nope, they'd gone so far as to shove *us* in instead.
All the foreshadowing, prophecies, magic cylon baby? Had diddly squat to do with it.
It was if all the writers had been sent to a rather naff Christian camp, where they all high-fived each other for poor scenes and plotholes - 'cause it's got Angels! Clap hands every body! We're putting the Deus in Deus Ex Machina!
So that's our conclusion on the basis of 'the plan'.
We still recommend the series to others, but kind of cough a lot about the end of the last season. Frankly, it would have ended better on the last episode before the writers strike. We tell people to end on that, actually.
That really felt like 'an end'. And paradoxically, it would have been more fun for the fanbase - you can imagine what would happen to them next, the characters still existing, but with an unknown endpoint - like star trek or something.
Someone else could have come along in good time and actually pulled everything together into a coherent continuation or finally.
posted by Elysum at 4:13 PM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: ...but there was a post-series movie that aired in January 2010 called "The Plan".
So the answer appears to be "No, the plan was never revealed in the series. There a so so retcon later, which limply attempted to address the issue but pretty much failed, but hey, it was two hours of Dean Stockwell, so it's not all bad."
Thanks ya'll!
posted by nomadicink at 5:01 PM on November 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
So the answer appears to be "No, the plan was never revealed in the series. There a so so retcon later, which limply attempted to address the issue but pretty much failed, but hey, it was two hours of Dean Stockwell, so it's not all bad."
Thanks ya'll!
posted by nomadicink at 5:01 PM on November 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
There actually was no plan -- that entire portion of the crawl was the idea of one of the producers who merely thought it was clever. No joke.
posted by gsh at 5:37 PM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by gsh at 5:37 PM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hey, do you know of a link that'll confirm that?
posted by nomadicink at 5:50 PM on November 15, 2010
posted by nomadicink at 5:50 PM on November 15, 2010
When I finished watching "The Plan" my reaction was "OK, so the Cylons didn't have a plan really, and the title was ironic." Apparently not everyone reacted this way. I don't think it's at ALL clear-cut that the plan was something all the Cylon models bought into, or that it really was ever clearly articulated.
posted by little light-giver at 7:46 PM on November 15, 2010
posted by little light-giver at 7:46 PM on November 15, 2010
They tell the whole story of "the plan" being a last-minute addition to the titles with absolutely no meaning in the commentary on one of the DVDs -- but my boyfriend insisted that we watch most of the series at 2am, so I can't for the life of me remember which one :( Sorry. But it would seem to make sense that it would be on the DVD of The Plan, so maybe try there first?
posted by obliquicity at 8:10 PM on November 15, 2010
posted by obliquicity at 8:10 PM on November 15, 2010
Best answer: SD: "And they have a plan..." Did you feel you painted yourself into a corner with that line in the precap?
RM; David Eick painted me into a corner. When we were coming up with the precap to define the large mythos of the show, we were coming up with succinct pieces of information the audience needed to know, and David said, "and it ends with, 'and they have a plan.'" "What does that mean?" "I don't know, but it's great!" And so I got talked into leaving it in. And it became one of the hallmarks of the show, the Cylons have a plan. And I kept getting pestered with it for the rest of the show. "What's the plan?"
source
posted by O9scar at 9:50 PM on November 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
RM; David Eick painted me into a corner. When we were coming up with the precap to define the large mythos of the show, we were coming up with succinct pieces of information the audience needed to know, and David said, "and it ends with, 'and they have a plan.'" "What does that mean?" "I don't know, but it's great!" And so I got talked into leaving it in. And it became one of the hallmarks of the show, the Cylons have a plan. And I kept getting pestered with it for the rest of the show. "What's the plan?"
source
posted by O9scar at 9:50 PM on November 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think it's become clear that no one involved in Battlestar Galactica had any sort of plan.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:05 AM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 12:05 AM on November 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks O9scar, that's exactly what I was looking, a 'from the horse's mouth' cite.
posted by nomadicink at 3:29 AM on November 16, 2010
posted by nomadicink at 3:29 AM on November 16, 2010
Since the question has been answered, can I give my personal ending, which I think is far superior to the original?
A few points to establish for my ending:
1. Up until New Caprica, what made the cylons awesome and scary was their cold, alien logic, and their implacable cooperation for one master plan. (And then BSG went off the rails by showing the cylons bickering with each other like a bunch of humans. ugh.) So, we keep the awesome cylons with alien/non-human logic.
2. Throughout the series, there has been much brouhaha over the importance of the first child of both cylon and humans.
3. Whatever the plan of the cylons was, it required destruction of 99% of humanity.
The ending:
The cylons realize that humanity is inherently war-like/competitive. That even if they came back in peace, that would be temporary, and war would break out. That over centuries, mankind keeps killing each other over and over. They realize that this cycle is hardwired into human genetic code. But Cylons created their own genes. They do not have this kind of conflict with each other. They work toward the greater good, alway.
So, the cylons come to a conclusion. The only way to save humanity is to change it. Destroy 99% to create a genetic bottleneck. Then, create cylon/human hybrids that inherit the genes for cooperation and peace. That's why the children are so important. They're the very culmination of the plan.
Yes, cylons killed billions and billions of people, but the result will be that no wars will ever happen again. Humanity/cylons will grow ever stronger. They'll break even on death toll in a few thousand years or so. The cylons, with their alien/cold logic, decide this is a pretty fair trade.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 12:15 PM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
A few points to establish for my ending:
1. Up until New Caprica, what made the cylons awesome and scary was their cold, alien logic, and their implacable cooperation for one master plan. (And then BSG went off the rails by showing the cylons bickering with each other like a bunch of humans. ugh.) So, we keep the awesome cylons with alien/non-human logic.
2. Throughout the series, there has been much brouhaha over the importance of the first child of both cylon and humans.
3. Whatever the plan of the cylons was, it required destruction of 99% of humanity.
The ending:
The cylons realize that humanity is inherently war-like/competitive. That even if they came back in peace, that would be temporary, and war would break out. That over centuries, mankind keeps killing each other over and over. They realize that this cycle is hardwired into human genetic code. But Cylons created their own genes. They do not have this kind of conflict with each other. They work toward the greater good, alway.
So, the cylons come to a conclusion. The only way to save humanity is to change it. Destroy 99% to create a genetic bottleneck. Then, create cylon/human hybrids that inherit the genes for cooperation and peace. That's why the children are so important. They're the very culmination of the plan.
Yes, cylons killed billions and billions of people, but the result will be that no wars will ever happen again. Humanity/cylons will grow ever stronger. They'll break even on death toll in a few thousand years or so. The cylons, with their alien/cold logic, decide this is a pretty fair trade.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 12:15 PM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
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