How to cope as daughter’s absent father re-appears?
September 6, 2010 3:31 PM Subscribe
My 7-year-old daughter’s absent father has just contacted me stating an interest in a relationship with her. I believe this is ultimately a good thing for her but I am not sure about the best approach.
He and I were in our late 30’s and had been friends for twenty years when we started up a long distance relationship. It lasted for about three months and ended when he told me he couldn’t deal with a relationship at the same time that his mother was dying. A couple of weeks after the break up I found out I was pregnant even though we had been using contraception. I felt he had a right to know and called him. He hung up. I weighed my options and decided to go it alone and I have a happy, spirited, out-going daughter whom I love very much.
She has had a photo of him in her album since she was very young and I have not shied away from giving her information that was age appropriate. So at this point she knows that he and I split up before I knew “she was in my tummy”, and that he lives across the country in City X because that’s where his job is. I have been very careful to frame things in such a way that she would not feel his absence had anything to do with her or that he was/is a bad guy.
It has recently come up between she and I that she has cousins on his side of the family and she's expressed interest in meeting them. I have now told her that in order for that to happen we would need to be in touch with her Dad and she is eager. She figures she should know him ‘cause (stated all jaunty-like) “after all, he is my Dad and it’s kinda weird that I’ve never met him”.
I am glad for her that she may be able to have a relationship with her father. I think having a relationship with him will be better for her than not having one. I am glad this is happening now as opposed to the teen years. I can imagine that she will think he’s fun and great, and he probably will be. But… I carry a lot of resentment toward him. I could not continue in my career being a lone parent and had to re-educate myself and re-establish a career. I feel like he was flip and selfish and abandoned me at a time when responsible, kind, communication would have really made a difference to me, that I have had to make great sacrifices, and that he’s now going to waltz in all fabu-dad and do the fun stuff. He has indicated that he would now like us to be a family, an idea that I have absolutely no room for. We are a family; he just chose not to be part of it.
So my question is four-fold.
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
I am aware that a plateful of counseling is in order and will be contacting someone first thing on tomorrow. I have been advised by legal professionals in regard to both custody / support issues and estate-planning issues and feel comfortable that I am fairly well situated and protected with regard to these things. I have never sought child support, nor do I intend to at this point. I am fortunate to be able to provide for her without his help although some effort on his part over the years to contribute to the support of his child might have made me see him in a better light.
I am trying very hard to do what is best for my daughter and I hope that’s evident despite my reservations (read: resentment toward her Dad). Thank you in advance so much for your input, advice, and wisdom.
He and I were in our late 30’s and had been friends for twenty years when we started up a long distance relationship. It lasted for about three months and ended when he told me he couldn’t deal with a relationship at the same time that his mother was dying. A couple of weeks after the break up I found out I was pregnant even though we had been using contraception. I felt he had a right to know and called him. He hung up. I weighed my options and decided to go it alone and I have a happy, spirited, out-going daughter whom I love very much.
She has had a photo of him in her album since she was very young and I have not shied away from giving her information that was age appropriate. So at this point she knows that he and I split up before I knew “she was in my tummy”, and that he lives across the country in City X because that’s where his job is. I have been very careful to frame things in such a way that she would not feel his absence had anything to do with her or that he was/is a bad guy.
It has recently come up between she and I that she has cousins on his side of the family and she's expressed interest in meeting them. I have now told her that in order for that to happen we would need to be in touch with her Dad and she is eager. She figures she should know him ‘cause (stated all jaunty-like) “after all, he is my Dad and it’s kinda weird that I’ve never met him”.
I am glad for her that she may be able to have a relationship with her father. I think having a relationship with him will be better for her than not having one. I am glad this is happening now as opposed to the teen years. I can imagine that she will think he’s fun and great, and he probably will be. But… I carry a lot of resentment toward him. I could not continue in my career being a lone parent and had to re-educate myself and re-establish a career. I feel like he was flip and selfish and abandoned me at a time when responsible, kind, communication would have really made a difference to me, that I have had to make great sacrifices, and that he’s now going to waltz in all fabu-dad and do the fun stuff. He has indicated that he would now like us to be a family, an idea that I have absolutely no room for. We are a family; he just chose not to be part of it.
So my question is four-fold.
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
I am aware that a plateful of counseling is in order and will be contacting someone first thing on tomorrow. I have been advised by legal professionals in regard to both custody / support issues and estate-planning issues and feel comfortable that I am fairly well situated and protected with regard to these things. I have never sought child support, nor do I intend to at this point. I am fortunate to be able to provide for her without his help although some effort on his part over the years to contribute to the support of his child might have made me see him in a better light.
I am trying very hard to do what is best for my daughter and I hope that’s evident despite my reservations (read: resentment toward her Dad). Thank you in advance so much for your input, advice, and wisdom.
Your story is a bit confusing. Could you clear up a aspect of it, please?
I felt he had a right to know and called him. He hung up.
What exactly does that mean? Did you tell him and then he hung up? And then you never contacted him again? You two have had no contact for seven years?
posted by nomadicink at 3:50 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I felt he had a right to know and called him. He hung up.
What exactly does that mean? Did you tell him and then he hung up? And then you never contacted him again? You two have had no contact for seven years?
posted by nomadicink at 3:50 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
I think as you said therapy would be the best thing and first thing you need to get in order to deal with your resentment towards him, anything else is just advice but wouldnt help truly to your cores beliefs about his absence for years.
Also I think after a few sessions you may release all that resentment and why not to give yourself another try with him? He was inmature and someone different at that time, giving him /you and your child another opportunity to have a family with both parents together is a real gift that you could give to your doughter.. It may not work but at least you wouldn't regret about denying her a united family in the most important years of life.. now that he is willing..
posted by zulo at 4:01 PM on September 6, 2010
I think as you said therapy would be the best thing and first thing you need to get in order to deal with your resentment towards him, anything else is just advice but wouldnt help truly to your cores beliefs about his absence for years.
Also I think after a few sessions you may release all that resentment and why not to give yourself another try with him? He was inmature and someone different at that time, giving him /you and your child another opportunity to have a family with both parents together is a real gift that you could give to your doughter.. It may not work but at least you wouldn't regret about denying her a united family in the most important years of life.. now that he is willing..
posted by zulo at 4:01 PM on September 6, 2010
Response by poster: nomadicink - sorry for the confusion, you are correct. I told him, he hung up, i never contacted him again. He contacted me when she was six months old and made vague plans to come and see her and then never followed up. We have had no contact since then (seven years).
posted by lunaazul at 4:01 PM on September 6, 2010
posted by lunaazul at 4:01 PM on September 6, 2010
Ok, what have you two talked about? How did he contact you? How have the conversations been ?
Apologies if the questions seem prying, but I think having a fuller picture helps before trying to answer all your questions.
posted by nomadicink at 4:06 PM on September 6, 2010
Apologies if the questions seem prying, but I think having a fuller picture helps before trying to answer all your questions.
posted by nomadicink at 4:06 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: You have every right to your negative feelings and every right to express your anger to him. Just don't do it in front of your child. Establish some kind of timeline. Exchange emails. Let her talk on the phone with him a few times before they meet. And yes, make him come to you, where you feel safe.
When he comes, I agree that your daughter should not suddenly be alone with her father, not because I think he might be dangerous, but because she needs someone familiar with her. If you don't feel comfortable being there is there a relative or close friend who could accompany her?
It's pretty shitty of him to have cut you and her so completely off like that. Is he begging your forgiveness? Is he offering to move to your end of the country so that he can start to know his daughter? Hold your ground.
I hope this all goes smoothly and she can establish a good relationship with him and his extended family. Good luck.
posted by mareli at 4:08 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
When he comes, I agree that your daughter should not suddenly be alone with her father, not because I think he might be dangerous, but because she needs someone familiar with her. If you don't feel comfortable being there is there a relative or close friend who could accompany her?
It's pretty shitty of him to have cut you and her so completely off like that. Is he begging your forgiveness? Is he offering to move to your end of the country so that he can start to know his daughter? Hold your ground.
I hope this all goes smoothly and she can establish a good relationship with him and his extended family. Good luck.
posted by mareli at 4:08 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
And did he contact ya'll before or after you an your daughter decided she should meet him?
Did he mother die?
posted by nomadicink at 4:08 PM on September 6, 2010
Did he mother die?
posted by nomadicink at 4:08 PM on September 6, 2010
We have had no contact since then (seven years).
It sounds like you're putting the cart before the horse. He could have a family with no knowledge of what happened previously.
posted by geoff. at 4:12 PM on September 6, 2010
It sounds like you're putting the cart before the horse. He could have a family with no knowledge of what happened previously.
posted by geoff. at 4:12 PM on September 6, 2010
Response by poster: nomadicink - no problem, I was trying to battle the "wall of text" and have maybe neglected some important information in doing so. The time line goes like this...
I call him to tell him I'm pregnant, he hangs up. (maybe he didn't believe me? I don't know)
I sent him a registered letter 2 months after she was born to inform him that he has a daughter, what her name is and say that "it might be ice if she knew her father". No response.
Four months later (she's now six months old) he calls and asks about her. Should he move to our city? I say that's up to him. Says he will try to get time off work to fly out and see her, that he'd contact me the following week. He doesn't call, and he doesn't come to visit.
Seven years later, while we were away on vacation this past few weeks, he called and left two messages giving his contact info and saying that he thinks it's time that "we start creating some family memories for her". I responded by email that I needed a couple of weeks to sort out what the best approach might be.
posted by lunaazul at 4:19 PM on September 6, 2010
I call him to tell him I'm pregnant, he hangs up. (maybe he didn't believe me? I don't know)
I sent him a registered letter 2 months after she was born to inform him that he has a daughter, what her name is and say that "it might be ice if she knew her father". No response.
Four months later (she's now six months old) he calls and asks about her. Should he move to our city? I say that's up to him. Says he will try to get time off work to fly out and see her, that he'd contact me the following week. He doesn't call, and he doesn't come to visit.
Seven years later, while we were away on vacation this past few weeks, he called and left two messages giving his contact info and saying that he thinks it's time that "we start creating some family memories for her". I responded by email that I needed a couple of weeks to sort out what the best approach might be.
posted by lunaazul at 4:19 PM on September 6, 2010
I don't understand how some effort on his part over the years to contribute to the support of his child might have made me see him in a better light worked out with the no contact since your daughter was six months? What went on with the 'some effort over the years'?
posted by kmennie at 4:21 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by kmennie at 4:21 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: on preview, my daughter and I have talked about calling after he contacted me. She is unaware at this point that he's called.
Yes his mother died, I believe about four years ago.
posted by lunaazul at 4:23 PM on September 6, 2010
Yes his mother died, I believe about four years ago.
posted by lunaazul at 4:23 PM on September 6, 2010
Response by poster: kmennie - I maybe phrased that in a confusing way. There has been no effort on his part to help support her. I have not asked and he has not volunteered. Had he volunteered, I may have a better opinion of him than I currently do.
posted by lunaazul at 4:26 PM on September 6, 2010
posted by lunaazul at 4:26 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: I don't really have any suggestions for how to put aside your negative feelings.
I can tell you from the child's point of view that the very best thing my mother ever did for me was to never speak badly of my father to me or to others when I was in earshot. Seriously, the BEST thing she EVER did!
I figured out what I needed to figure out by my mid to late teens. While I was younger, I just enjoyed being with my Dad because he was my Dad. We had good times that I don't think would have been the same if I went into the situation knowing all the ugly details of the divorce, and his other not so nice behaviour.
I hope some folks have good advice for you. Good luck with it, your daughter will love you for it.
posted by sadtomato at 4:29 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
I can tell you from the child's point of view that the very best thing my mother ever did for me was to never speak badly of my father to me or to others when I was in earshot. Seriously, the BEST thing she EVER did!
I figured out what I needed to figure out by my mid to late teens. While I was younger, I just enjoyed being with my Dad because he was my Dad. We had good times that I don't think would have been the same if I went into the situation knowing all the ugly details of the divorce, and his other not so nice behaviour.
I hope some folks have good advice for you. Good luck with it, your daughter will love you for it.
posted by sadtomato at 4:29 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I'm putting myself in your shoes and your daughter's shoes as I consider what you've laid out.
You handled things beautifully regarding your daughter, but it's not OK what he did. Especially as a friend of 20 years.
Consequently, I think he should pony up on child support as a show of good faith. Lawyers should be involved. Your daughter should not even know about his desire to meet her until every "T" is crossed and "I" is dotted.
Specifically, I'm thinking of regular contributions to some sort of college fund in lieu of regular support payments. I'm not sure if that sort of thing is legally possible, but I don't see why not. In view of his history in the situation, I think it is important he makes some sort of concrete commitment before he shows up in your daughter's life.
Here's my thinking on this: You are correct. You are already a family.
If he declines his responsibility and you still allow him to see your daughter, you can counsel her wisely and manage her expectations. You'll know already where she stands with him and how serious he is about being in her life.
You can remain polite to him AND do right by your daughter. The way you seem to be framing this to yourself currently is as an "either/or" dilemma. That's false.
Think outside the box on this one, yes?
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 4:30 PM on September 6, 2010 [13 favorites]
You handled things beautifully regarding your daughter, but it's not OK what he did. Especially as a friend of 20 years.
Consequently, I think he should pony up on child support as a show of good faith. Lawyers should be involved. Your daughter should not even know about his desire to meet her until every "T" is crossed and "I" is dotted.
Specifically, I'm thinking of regular contributions to some sort of college fund in lieu of regular support payments. I'm not sure if that sort of thing is legally possible, but I don't see why not. In view of his history in the situation, I think it is important he makes some sort of concrete commitment before he shows up in your daughter's life.
Here's my thinking on this: You are correct. You are already a family.
If he declines his responsibility and you still allow him to see your daughter, you can counsel her wisely and manage her expectations. You'll know already where she stands with him and how serious he is about being in her life.
You can remain polite to him AND do right by your daughter. The way you seem to be framing this to yourself currently is as an "either/or" dilemma. That's false.
Think outside the box on this one, yes?
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 4:30 PM on September 6, 2010 [13 favorites]
Best answer: First off, I think you and your daughter have a great attitude about this. He had the opportunity--and the responsibility--all those years ago to man up, but he decided to hang up on you instead--literally. That you are welcoming to this man now speaks volumes on your patience and grace. That's not to say you shouldn't be angry at this guy! Your anger at him is totally justified, but it's important that you compartmentalize it for your daughter's sake. In other words, don't fight with him in front of her.
As far as the logistics, it seems obvious to me that he should come to you. He should shuffle his schedule around yours, and you shouldn't burden yourself in this regard, at least at first. He should stay at a nearby hotel and see you two on your time.
Go somewhere public for an afternoon. All three of you can meet for lunch, then go to the zoo or an amusement park or something, and at the end of the day he goes back to his hotel. By the end of the day you'll have a better idea of how this will all work and you'll probably be able to answer all those above questions by yourself.
posted by zardoz at 4:37 PM on September 6, 2010
As far as the logistics, it seems obvious to me that he should come to you. He should shuffle his schedule around yours, and you shouldn't burden yourself in this regard, at least at first. He should stay at a nearby hotel and see you two on your time.
Go somewhere public for an afternoon. All three of you can meet for lunch, then go to the zoo or an amusement park or something, and at the end of the day he goes back to his hotel. By the end of the day you'll have a better idea of how this will all work and you'll probably be able to answer all those above questions by yourself.
posted by zardoz at 4:37 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: You may want to get legal counsel as well as psychological counseling. Being a father is a legal and financial responsibility as well as just an opportunity to have a kid and show up when it's convenient.
p.s. Brace yourself for the whole "I don't like you, I'm moving in with my dad" stuff. Since you haven't had another parent around you probably haven't heard this yet but kids learn how to use this method of manipulation with amazing speed when the opportunity presents itself.
posted by MsKim at 4:43 PM on September 6, 2010
p.s. Brace yourself for the whole "I don't like you, I'm moving in with my dad" stuff. Since you haven't had another parent around you probably haven't heard this yet but kids learn how to use this method of manipulation with amazing speed when the opportunity presents itself.
posted by MsKim at 4:43 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: Thanks for filling in the gaps, it helps clear up the few things.
On to your questions:
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
Based on what you've written, he's been an ass, yes, totally, no doubt. But by the same token, you could have acted better. It seems that you abandoned him in a way, when his mom was dying and that may have hit him pretty hard. I'm not trying to excuse his behavior or the paint you as some horrible person, just pointing out that both of you could have handled the situation better, IMO.
My point here is to suggest that perhaps there are negative feelings on both sides and you're both entitled to them. I think you two and just you two need to sit down and talk, really talk. That may take a couple of phone conversations and that's ok, but at this point you're understandably angry, but you haven't heard the full story.
You also need to start this with the idea that you're going to forgive him. Yes he was wrong, wrong for years, left you to fend for yourself with ya'll's child and didn't lift a finger for seven years. He was so very wrong, but at some point, you're going to have to forgive him for that and give him a chance to be a father to her. He may not be the father you want him to be, but it may be enough for her.
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
Phone calls between you and him first, so you two can sort out whatever ya'll need to sort out between yourselves. Hopefully this establishes some sort of friendly ground between you two, at least in terms of both you wanting wants best for her.
However, his "we can be a family now" thing needs to be explicitly broken down to him. You're not interested in that and you should tell him that, several times.
Pointing out his lack of financial contributions should be brought up to him and you should definitely determine if he has any intention of contributing now. Frankly, and this may sound harsh, I'm of the opinion, as a random internet stranger, that your anger over this understandable, but you never asked for help, nor contacted him about getting him. Yes, he should have done it anyway, there's no question of that, but again, you never asked for it, so how is he to know it was needed? I think you could have done a better job of communicating that and the fact you didn't, but still harbor anger over his lack of help is understandable but also unfair in way.
I would not place monetary conditions on him for seeing the child. That just makes you seem small and petty, particularly since you've managed now. Yes, by all means articulate your anger and resentment over having to shoulder that burden and ask for help if you like, but don't use it as bargaining chip, that way leads to ugliness. Let it go maybe and continue doing the good job you've been doing.
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
That's he's doing this for himself, not for here. He's reached some point in his life where he misses her and/or having a family and thinks he can just pick up with ya'll and whatever emptiness inside him will be filled.
That he has another family or kids.
That he has some terminal disease and wants to make things right or is looking for someone to care for him.
That he doesn't have what it takes to be there, really be there for her.
This is why you two need to talk a lot, a whole lot before he comes near her. You need to get to know him, know what his emotional state is and what his intentions are, let him know your thoughts and feelings and give him time to put in some work and effort. He should not be allowed to just sort of waltz in easy as pie.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
Just be there for her. Do not get in the way of their relationship. Do not get her hopes up, nor make her dread it. Let the relationship between them evolve however it does and just be there in case it goes badly. Do not judge him or talk badly of him. This may tear at your heart, but keep it inside or vent to friends. Let her come to see him in her own light.
Lastly, God bless you for raising your daughter as a single parent and doing a good job with her. You've worked miracles a dozen times over and you deserve a pat on the back, a good long hug, a week at a spa and no doubt a ton of other things for doing the right thing. You may not get all the accolades you deserve, but thank you for stepping up and being a parent and doing your best.
posted by nomadicink at 4:47 PM on September 6, 2010 [12 favorites]
On to your questions:
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
Based on what you've written, he's been an ass, yes, totally, no doubt. But by the same token, you could have acted better. It seems that you abandoned him in a way, when his mom was dying and that may have hit him pretty hard. I'm not trying to excuse his behavior or the paint you as some horrible person, just pointing out that both of you could have handled the situation better, IMO.
My point here is to suggest that perhaps there are negative feelings on both sides and you're both entitled to them. I think you two and just you two need to sit down and talk, really talk. That may take a couple of phone conversations and that's ok, but at this point you're understandably angry, but you haven't heard the full story.
You also need to start this with the idea that you're going to forgive him. Yes he was wrong, wrong for years, left you to fend for yourself with ya'll's child and didn't lift a finger for seven years. He was so very wrong, but at some point, you're going to have to forgive him for that and give him a chance to be a father to her. He may not be the father you want him to be, but it may be enough for her.
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
Phone calls between you and him first, so you two can sort out whatever ya'll need to sort out between yourselves. Hopefully this establishes some sort of friendly ground between you two, at least in terms of both you wanting wants best for her.
However, his "we can be a family now" thing needs to be explicitly broken down to him. You're not interested in that and you should tell him that, several times.
Pointing out his lack of financial contributions should be brought up to him and you should definitely determine if he has any intention of contributing now. Frankly, and this may sound harsh, I'm of the opinion, as a random internet stranger, that your anger over this understandable, but you never asked for help, nor contacted him about getting him. Yes, he should have done it anyway, there's no question of that, but again, you never asked for it, so how is he to know it was needed? I think you could have done a better job of communicating that and the fact you didn't, but still harbor anger over his lack of help is understandable but also unfair in way.
I would not place monetary conditions on him for seeing the child. That just makes you seem small and petty, particularly since you've managed now. Yes, by all means articulate your anger and resentment over having to shoulder that burden and ask for help if you like, but don't use it as bargaining chip, that way leads to ugliness. Let it go maybe and continue doing the good job you've been doing.
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
That's he's doing this for himself, not for here. He's reached some point in his life where he misses her and/or having a family and thinks he can just pick up with ya'll and whatever emptiness inside him will be filled.
That he has another family or kids.
That he has some terminal disease and wants to make things right or is looking for someone to care for him.
That he doesn't have what it takes to be there, really be there for her.
This is why you two need to talk a lot, a whole lot before he comes near her. You need to get to know him, know what his emotional state is and what his intentions are, let him know your thoughts and feelings and give him time to put in some work and effort. He should not be allowed to just sort of waltz in easy as pie.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
Just be there for her. Do not get in the way of their relationship. Do not get her hopes up, nor make her dread it. Let the relationship between them evolve however it does and just be there in case it goes badly. Do not judge him or talk badly of him. This may tear at your heart, but keep it inside or vent to friends. Let her come to see him in her own light.
Lastly, God bless you for raising your daughter as a single parent and doing a good job with her. You've worked miracles a dozen times over and you deserve a pat on the back, a good long hug, a week at a spa and no doubt a ton of other things for doing the right thing. You may not get all the accolades you deserve, but thank you for stepping up and being a parent and doing your best.
posted by nomadicink at 4:47 PM on September 6, 2010 [12 favorites]
Best answer: I've been that kid, although I had to wait decades before I found my biological father, and I've been (and still am) the single mother who has trouble respecting the father of my kids too.
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
Bite your tongue, and don't say what you want to say. Easier said than done, I know. Just suck it up and keep thinking "this visit will be over at some stage and then I can swallow a damned huge glass of wine in one gulp, and be proud that I took the higher road".
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
He made the choice to stay out of her life, so IMO he should come to her, not the other way around. A meal at McDonalds would be perfect for the first contact, I'd reckon. I would insist on a supervised visit, not because he might abduct her or whatever, but more because... she's still a kid. If it doesn't go well, if he's not the fabulous dad she deserves, she'll need the security of someone she can trust. And you will feel a hell of a lot better too. I would suggest that it might be best for someone else to supervise, though. I really appreciate other family or friends doing the access visit handover, just because it saves me the stress of dealing with their 'Disney Dad', and hearing about the holidays he takes with his current girlfriend and her son when he's never taken his own children anywhere.
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
He's waited seven years? I think it won't hurt to prepare yourself to explain to your daughter why her father didn't want contact, or if he suddenly stops contact again, why. My father - whom I tracked down after 36-ish years of no contact - told me that he always thought it was best if he left the decision to establish contact up to me. I found that incredibly selfish, and thought he was pissweak and gutless for not wanting to find out how his 6 month old daughter turned out, for not ever caring enough about me to find me. That - as well as his selfish wife moaning to me about how hard it was to live with him all those years, waiting every day for ME to find THEM, and it took me so long to find them - ruined our re-established relationship. YMMV, or H(is)MMV, of course.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
To be entirely honest, from the tone of your question, you are a magnificent mother. You are putting your daughter first. That's all you need to do.
PS: I don't know if Disney Dad is a common term, my ex started using it when my kids would go to visit him, and he'd take them to the local Disney shop and buy them everything they wanted. While I was struggling to pay rent, buy food and clothing, he'd merrily splash out on Tinkerbell ornaments and stuffed Tiggers, while not paying child support. I don't have a lot of respect for Disney Dads.
Feel free to mefi mail if you need to. This has stirred me up, so I'll stop now.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 4:48 PM on September 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
Bite your tongue, and don't say what you want to say. Easier said than done, I know. Just suck it up and keep thinking "this visit will be over at some stage and then I can swallow a damned huge glass of wine in one gulp, and be proud that I took the higher road".
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
He made the choice to stay out of her life, so IMO he should come to her, not the other way around. A meal at McDonalds would be perfect for the first contact, I'd reckon. I would insist on a supervised visit, not because he might abduct her or whatever, but more because... she's still a kid. If it doesn't go well, if he's not the fabulous dad she deserves, she'll need the security of someone she can trust. And you will feel a hell of a lot better too. I would suggest that it might be best for someone else to supervise, though. I really appreciate other family or friends doing the access visit handover, just because it saves me the stress of dealing with their 'Disney Dad', and hearing about the holidays he takes with his current girlfriend and her son when he's never taken his own children anywhere.
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
He's waited seven years? I think it won't hurt to prepare yourself to explain to your daughter why her father didn't want contact, or if he suddenly stops contact again, why. My father - whom I tracked down after 36-ish years of no contact - told me that he always thought it was best if he left the decision to establish contact up to me. I found that incredibly selfish, and thought he was pissweak and gutless for not wanting to find out how his 6 month old daughter turned out, for not ever caring enough about me to find me. That - as well as his selfish wife moaning to me about how hard it was to live with him all those years, waiting every day for ME to find THEM, and it took me so long to find them - ruined our re-established relationship. YMMV, or H(is)MMV, of course.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
To be entirely honest, from the tone of your question, you are a magnificent mother. You are putting your daughter first. That's all you need to do.
PS: I don't know if Disney Dad is a common term, my ex started using it when my kids would go to visit him, and he'd take them to the local Disney shop and buy them everything they wanted. While I was struggling to pay rent, buy food and clothing, he'd merrily splash out on Tinkerbell ornaments and stuffed Tiggers, while not paying child support. I don't have a lot of respect for Disney Dads.
Feel free to mefi mail if you need to. This has stirred me up, so I'll stop now.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 4:48 PM on September 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I feel unqualified to speak, but if I were you, I would first have a face-to-face conversation with this man and find out what his intentions are. Given he has never responded and never been reliable before, and completely abandoned the situation despite a previous friendship, I would want to know what sparked this sudden interest in fatherhood, and assure myself of his current reliability. Because there is a chance, of course, that he meets his daughter and then disappears again. What role is he proposing to play in her life?
I also feel that you have every right to say the things you said to him above and attempt to get answers. You have the right to ask the questions, and the right to make decisions based on his responses.
posted by micawber at 4:50 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
I also feel that you have every right to say the things you said to him above and attempt to get answers. You have the right to ask the questions, and the right to make decisions based on his responses.
posted by micawber at 4:50 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: As a child of divorce, I agree that it's best to not talk bad about her father in front of your daughter. However, I think she deserves, and indeed needs, to be informed of the complete truth as soon as she's old enough to handle it. Basically exactly as you laid it out here, calmly and dispassionately. "Your father hung up when I told him I was pregnant. Six months later he called again. He never followed through." You will not be doing her a favor by glossing over the details or hiding the truth. You should not make excuses for him like, "Daddy was very busy" or whatever. Take it from me, she WILL eventually find out the truth, or at least emotionally sense the truth, and it will hurt much worse if she's allowed herself to have idealistic fantasties about Daddy that get torn down. He will want to make excuses for himself and show himself in the best light; don't let him. Focus on how he will talk to HER, not to you. His obligation is not to you, but to her. It may be above her head now, but someday it won't be, and by coming back into her life at all he should be aware that he's volunteering to be asked some hard questions by a little girl who will eventually grow up and learn about the world and the way other families work. He should be aware that SHE, not you, is the one he has to make amends with.
posted by Nixy at 4:55 PM on September 6, 2010
posted by Nixy at 4:55 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: I think you need a lawyer. Even if you don't want child support, he can set up a trust or an educational fund, as well as making sure that he acknowledges her (SSI benefit, etc.)
Then I think you meet with him and establish some ground rules. (You might also do a background check on him.)
And then if he freaks, you're no worse off than you were.
I don't like that he "wants to make family memories" for her. She's got a family. He's not actually part of it. Family members do the heavy lifting, not just the holiday fun part.
I don't agree that you shouldn't "get in the way" of the relationship. She's 7, not 17, and he's an adult, not another kid. He has no role in her life thus far, and I think you're well within your boundaries to sort of take a guiding role in their budding relationship. How many other little kids does he know?
He comes to you, the three of you meet in a public place, have fun, maybe let him do some one-on-one stuff with her (with you in the background), and you can see how it's going before you commit to dinner, presents, etc. Just as you would with any other total stranger and your kid.
posted by Ideefixe at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
Then I think you meet with him and establish some ground rules. (You might also do a background check on him.)
And then if he freaks, you're no worse off than you were.
I don't like that he "wants to make family memories" for her. She's got a family. He's not actually part of it. Family members do the heavy lifting, not just the holiday fun part.
I don't agree that you shouldn't "get in the way" of the relationship. She's 7, not 17, and he's an adult, not another kid. He has no role in her life thus far, and I think you're well within your boundaries to sort of take a guiding role in their budding relationship. How many other little kids does he know?
He comes to you, the three of you meet in a public place, have fun, maybe let him do some one-on-one stuff with her (with you in the background), and you can see how it's going before you commit to dinner, presents, etc. Just as you would with any other total stranger and your kid.
posted by Ideefixe at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
Best answer: With his track record I wonder if he will even follow through this time. I would not tell your daughter he has contacted you yet-until you can figure out what is really going on in his head now and if he truly will follow through or just be around enough to break her heart.
He is her father and he owes you a crapton of child support. She is owed this, and just because you have done a magnificent job up to now does not negate the fact. In fact, please do see a lawyer so you can be informed totally re his rights and his responsibilities. I would not trust him as far as he could be thrown until he can prove that he is trustworthy. For example, what if he decides all of a sudden that he wants joint custody?
I am not trying to frighten you but you do have to consider what a worst case scenario is in this situation and prepare for that. Hopefully instead this will be best case scenario where he finally mans up and is a true father to your daughter, to HER benefit.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:12 PM on September 6, 2010 [14 favorites]
He is her father and he owes you a crapton of child support. She is owed this, and just because you have done a magnificent job up to now does not negate the fact. In fact, please do see a lawyer so you can be informed totally re his rights and his responsibilities. I would not trust him as far as he could be thrown until he can prove that he is trustworthy. For example, what if he decides all of a sudden that he wants joint custody?
I am not trying to frighten you but you do have to consider what a worst case scenario is in this situation and prepare for that. Hopefully instead this will be best case scenario where he finally mans up and is a true father to your daughter, to HER benefit.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:12 PM on September 6, 2010 [14 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, millionthing the "don't talk bad about the dad in front of the kids". Puts them in an awful situation. Forces them to either grow up emotionally too fast, or more likely, trains them that their parents are an either-or scenario. If you love mom, dad's a prick. If you're mad at mom, dad's awesome. Not good.
And the bitter details of the breakup and the hangup and the rest really aren't your daughter's business. Telling that story, even if dispassionate and without malice, is bad talking your ex. All she needs to know is that you and her father broke up before she was born and haven't really talked since. If your daughter wants to know why dad wasn't in her life, she needs to ask him.
The best case scenario is to *try* to rekindle some of the friendship you guys had. Maybe not the actual feelings, but at least the familiarity. Even if you really don't want to, force yourself to give up your anger and pretend that he is the good guy you used to know, and the prick that abandoned you was just him in a really bad time. After all, that might be true.
posted by gjc at 5:17 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
And the bitter details of the breakup and the hangup and the rest really aren't your daughter's business. Telling that story, even if dispassionate and without malice, is bad talking your ex. All she needs to know is that you and her father broke up before she was born and haven't really talked since. If your daughter wants to know why dad wasn't in her life, she needs to ask him.
The best case scenario is to *try* to rekindle some of the friendship you guys had. Maybe not the actual feelings, but at least the familiarity. Even if you really don't want to, force yourself to give up your anger and pretend that he is the good guy you used to know, and the prick that abandoned you was just him in a really bad time. After all, that might be true.
posted by gjc at 5:17 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Did you read what she wrote? HE broke up with HER. Where are you seeing that she abandoned him?
The part where they were friends for 20 years, had 3 month relationship, he breaks it off because he can't deal with dying mother and a relationship at the same. She finds out she's pregnant, calls him up, he hangs up on her after she tells him (which was a a total jackass move, no question).
She then never calls him again, despite knowing his mother is dying. No phone call, no email, nothing. Eventually she sends a letter, 2 months after the kid is born. Yes, he was asshole, but she abandoned a 20 year old friend and father of her kid 'cause he hung up on her once? That's kinda crazy and lousy too.
My take on your participation in this thread is that you're waiting to attack the OP and I'm not sure why.
You are entitled to your opinion, wrong though it may be. Note last paragraph of what I wrote, which explicitly acknowledges the great job she's been doing.
If you want talk your perception of why I'm in this thread, we should take it to mefimail or MetaTalk, to prevent derailing this thread.
posted by nomadicink at 5:23 PM on September 6, 2010
The part where they were friends for 20 years, had 3 month relationship, he breaks it off because he can't deal with dying mother and a relationship at the same. She finds out she's pregnant, calls him up, he hangs up on her after she tells him (which was a a total jackass move, no question).
She then never calls him again, despite knowing his mother is dying. No phone call, no email, nothing. Eventually she sends a letter, 2 months after the kid is born. Yes, he was asshole, but she abandoned a 20 year old friend and father of her kid 'cause he hung up on her once? That's kinda crazy and lousy too.
My take on your participation in this thread is that you're waiting to attack the OP and I'm not sure why.
You are entitled to your opinion, wrong though it may be. Note last paragraph of what I wrote, which explicitly acknowledges the great job she's been doing.
If you want talk your perception of why I'm in this thread, we should take it to mefimail or MetaTalk, to prevent derailing this thread.
posted by nomadicink at 5:23 PM on September 6, 2010
Telling that story, even if dispassionate and without malice, is bad talking your ex. No, it's not. It's telling the truth.
All she needs to know is that you and her father broke up before she was born and haven't really talked since. If your daughter wants to know why dad wasn't in her life, she needs to ask him.
I disagree. And he is highly likely to lie. For now, maybe you should not tell every detail, but even at age 7, she needs to hear something that lets her know Daddy Messed Up. Blaming it on something else will just cast him as the loving father that has returned as soon as he could and lead her to be more emotionally dependant on him. He should probably man up and apologize to her.
Even if you really don't want to, force yourself to give up your anger and pretend that he is the good guy you used to know, and the prick that abandoned you was just him in a really bad time. After all, that might be true.
I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. This is really bad advice. It's not safe to ignore the man he has been so far. It's not truthful or fair, and if he has truly changed he should be able to own up to his past mistakes anyway. Do NOT pretend he is the good guy. Make him earn your (and her) trust all over again. Do not just "swallow" your anger. Having a father you have to walk on eggshells around and pretend is a nice guy to essentially beg for him to keep visiting and paying child support is way more messed up than not having a father around.
posted by Nixy at 5:25 PM on September 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
All she needs to know is that you and her father broke up before she was born and haven't really talked since. If your daughter wants to know why dad wasn't in her life, she needs to ask him.
I disagree. And he is highly likely to lie. For now, maybe you should not tell every detail, but even at age 7, she needs to hear something that lets her know Daddy Messed Up. Blaming it on something else will just cast him as the loving father that has returned as soon as he could and lead her to be more emotionally dependant on him. He should probably man up and apologize to her.
Even if you really don't want to, force yourself to give up your anger and pretend that he is the good guy you used to know, and the prick that abandoned you was just him in a really bad time. After all, that might be true.
I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. This is really bad advice. It's not safe to ignore the man he has been so far. It's not truthful or fair, and if he has truly changed he should be able to own up to his past mistakes anyway. Do NOT pretend he is the good guy. Make him earn your (and her) trust all over again. Do not just "swallow" your anger. Having a father you have to walk on eggshells around and pretend is a nice guy to essentially beg for him to keep visiting and paying child support is way more messed up than not having a father around.
posted by Nixy at 5:25 PM on September 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Regarding financial participation via nomadicink:
"...your anger over this understandable, but you never asked for help, nor contacted him about getting him."
I think that is a non-starter.
OP, it's worth highlighting, tho, because you might possibly be harboring some version of that sentiment.
Your daughter was conceived and born. This man is and ADULT. There is no such thing as anyone needing to ask for support in that scenario. It's what responsible people do. You're correct if you think financial support would have been an appropriate gesture on his part at any stage, even if he never wanted a relationship. There are laws to make irresponsible people comply and support their kids. There is no grey area.
Plus. He is no stranger you met at a bar. 20 years of friendship should have meant more to him.
OP, if you hear that argument from "dad" or anyone else, please have the good sense to disregard it. Don't defend yourself or your choices. It's "dad" who must now defend his choices towards your daughter if he wants to earn the right to even meet her.
She deserves the best. And so do you.
posted by jbenben at 5:27 PM on September 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
"...your anger over this understandable, but you never asked for help, nor contacted him about getting him."
I think that is a non-starter.
OP, it's worth highlighting, tho, because you might possibly be harboring some version of that sentiment.
Your daughter was conceived and born. This man is and ADULT. There is no such thing as anyone needing to ask for support in that scenario. It's what responsible people do. You're correct if you think financial support would have been an appropriate gesture on his part at any stage, even if he never wanted a relationship. There are laws to make irresponsible people comply and support their kids. There is no grey area.
Plus. He is no stranger you met at a bar. 20 years of friendship should have meant more to him.
OP, if you hear that argument from "dad" or anyone else, please have the good sense to disregard it. Don't defend yourself or your choices. It's "dad" who must now defend his choices towards your daughter if he wants to earn the right to even meet her.
She deserves the best. And so do you.
posted by jbenben at 5:27 PM on September 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
Best answer: He is her father and he owes you a crapton of child support.
He owes the child support to the child, not the mother.
I *would* do the background check though. You knew him for 20 years, but you'd probably want to confirm that he hasn't changed in any significant ways since then. It isn't likely, but people do go nuts occasionally.
But the lawyer advice is a little premature. You can't sign away your rights or your daughter's rights by visiting with this guy. You could even *tell* him you don't want anything, and that would be meaningless if you decided to go to court.
Have the phone call, talk to your daughter, do the meet if it feels right. But also give him a "come to Jesus" talk: if he wants to become a part of her life, he needs to stay a part of her life. Can't be a once every three years kind of thing. If he can't handle that, well, figure it out from there.
I would NOT make visitation a thing you can pull away if you don't get what you want. I've seen too many families ruined by that. Even if the dad is a deadbeat, he's still their dad. And the kids will figure this out and maybe learn a lesson. (*) Never let the money get in the way.
(*) This is personal to me though. My uncle was a deadbeat, and his ex didn't let him see the kids unless he coughed up some money. Which he rarely had. The kids never got to know their dad. *I* probably knew him better. At his funeral (told you he was a deadbeat), it killed me to see those two young men mourning not only what little they knew of their dad, but also everything they didn't know about him but could have.
posted by gjc at 5:34 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
He owes the child support to the child, not the mother.
I *would* do the background check though. You knew him for 20 years, but you'd probably want to confirm that he hasn't changed in any significant ways since then. It isn't likely, but people do go nuts occasionally.
But the lawyer advice is a little premature. You can't sign away your rights or your daughter's rights by visiting with this guy. You could even *tell* him you don't want anything, and that would be meaningless if you decided to go to court.
Have the phone call, talk to your daughter, do the meet if it feels right. But also give him a "come to Jesus" talk: if he wants to become a part of her life, he needs to stay a part of her life. Can't be a once every three years kind of thing. If he can't handle that, well, figure it out from there.
I would NOT make visitation a thing you can pull away if you don't get what you want. I've seen too many families ruined by that. Even if the dad is a deadbeat, he's still their dad. And the kids will figure this out and maybe learn a lesson. (*) Never let the money get in the way.
(*) This is personal to me though. My uncle was a deadbeat, and his ex didn't let him see the kids unless he coughed up some money. Which he rarely had. The kids never got to know their dad. *I* probably knew him better. At his funeral (told you he was a deadbeat), it killed me to see those two young men mourning not only what little they knew of their dad, but also everything they didn't know about him but could have.
posted by gjc at 5:34 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: She was a little busy with a NEWBORN so I don't fault her for not calling. He knew his responsibility and dropped it totally. And was old enough to know better at the time. He was no child.
I still say lawyer and background check first. And I would really want to know what his motive is NOW to initiate contact.
Perhaps the two adults in this scenario should meet with a family counselor FIRST to set ground rules and plot out a plan to introduce this man to his daughter.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:42 PM on September 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
I still say lawyer and background check first. And I would really want to know what his motive is NOW to initiate contact.
Perhaps the two adults in this scenario should meet with a family counselor FIRST to set ground rules and plot out a plan to introduce this man to his daughter.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:42 PM on September 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
"I disagree. And he is highly likely to lie. For now, maybe you should not tell every detail, but even at age 7, she needs to hear something that lets her know Daddy Messed Up. Blaming it on something else will just cast him as the loving father that has returned as soon as he could and lead her to be more emotionally dependant on him. He should probably man up and apologize to her."
"I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. This is really bad advice. It's not safe to ignore the man he has been so far. It's not truthful or fair, and if he has truly changed he should be able to own up to his past mistakes anyway. Do NOT pretend he is the good guy. Make him earn your (and her) trust all over again. Do not just "swallow" your anger. "
And I double dog disagree. Nobody is saying to make up stories, but "and then he hung up on me" is just too much for a 7 year old. A lie of omission is better than that kid having to try to go to bed that night, trying to figure out what is so wrong with her that would make him do that.
And she doesn't need to be told Daddy Messed Up. She knows that, because her friends have daddies and she doesn't. Hearing mom tell a painful story just prejudices her ability to judge the guy on who he is now.
And you don't know what he is likely to do or not to do. Let's not get carried away. The mom and the dad here were friends for 20 of the last 27 years. That counts for something. This isn't a complete stranger.
"Having a father you have to walk on eggshells around and pretend is a nice guy to essentially beg for him to keep visiting and paying child support is way more messed up than not having a father around."
I think you are reading more into this than is really there. Nobody is walking on eggshells here. The kid doesn't have to pretend anything. I'm just saying, since she asked, the best thing for the kid is for the mom to let go of her anger, so the daughter can have whatever relationship she wants with her father.
He may not deserve any of this, but the daughter deserves to have a fair shot at knowing her father.
posted by gjc at 5:50 PM on September 6, 2010
"I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. This is really bad advice. It's not safe to ignore the man he has been so far. It's not truthful or fair, and if he has truly changed he should be able to own up to his past mistakes anyway. Do NOT pretend he is the good guy. Make him earn your (and her) trust all over again. Do not just "swallow" your anger. "
And I double dog disagree. Nobody is saying to make up stories, but "and then he hung up on me" is just too much for a 7 year old. A lie of omission is better than that kid having to try to go to bed that night, trying to figure out what is so wrong with her that would make him do that.
And she doesn't need to be told Daddy Messed Up. She knows that, because her friends have daddies and she doesn't. Hearing mom tell a painful story just prejudices her ability to judge the guy on who he is now.
And you don't know what he is likely to do or not to do. Let's not get carried away. The mom and the dad here were friends for 20 of the last 27 years. That counts for something. This isn't a complete stranger.
"Having a father you have to walk on eggshells around and pretend is a nice guy to essentially beg for him to keep visiting and paying child support is way more messed up than not having a father around."
I think you are reading more into this than is really there. Nobody is walking on eggshells here. The kid doesn't have to pretend anything. I'm just saying, since she asked, the best thing for the kid is for the mom to let go of her anger, so the daughter can have whatever relationship she wants with her father.
He may not deserve any of this, but the daughter deserves to have a fair shot at knowing her father.
posted by gjc at 5:50 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: I really admire your honesty, courage, and maturity in the way you wrote about this, and also in the way you describe how you've handled the intervening last seven years. You've managed to build yourself up both in terms of your career skills; took it upon yourself to get additional training/schooling; found and held down a job relevant to the preceding; and are currently raising and have so far raised a beautiful daughter, with a great deal of love between you both. Being a single parent, and being a single mother, are no small feats. You've done a great job.
To your questions:
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
For this, I really see yourself already answering this question when you talk about moving toward what would be helpful: that is, starting counseling. I think in this situation, first ask yourself what you need and how you can support yourself during this process. Yes, your daughter is excited for the idea of meeting her father, but since she does not yet know the information, you have time - as you've shown through your own preparations you mentioned - to think through this in a way that doesn't feel rushed and in a way that feels healthy and best for your life, too. In saying this, I don't imply keeping secrets from your daughter. I believe honesty is good, and necessary. However, young people are smart, and I think the best thing you can do is to care for yourself in this, too. You have legitimate reasons for the way you feel, and part of this new wild card appearing in your life sounds like also revisiting the moments from this past relationship. Smart is also consulting that lawyer. In a situation dealing with minors, potential child custody questions (your daughter's father intimates at this in his preposterous "I want us to be a family now" [paraphrasing] comment, with seemingly little real-world idea of what exactly helped you to create the family that you already have. Like you said, it wasn't easy being a single parent, but you did and are doing a great job of it.), this is very wise. For all of its oddities, part of family is also - in the material, legal, financial world - something that requires financial acumen. This is not to say that family must fit into a particular structure. Like yours, there are many families and many family models. Kudos to you for having built one that may not be the most financially supported, but is certainly valid and a fine model of one of many possible models.
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
Do you have a good friend, who knows about this, can be impartial, and with whom you feel like they'd be unconditionally on your side? I ask because it sounds like emotionally it may be challenging to meet with this person again, after so much time has passed. I would strongly suggest having a friend accompany you, someone whom you trust, someone who knows what you want out of this situation, and someone who can be supportive and perhaps even help remind you of what you'd like to say before you meet, and during the meeting. Absolutely create a situation where you are in familiar surroundings, but perhaps not at your favorite place to eat. A chain restaurant, or alternately somewhere nondescript, somewhere that does not have personal meaning for you, that you often frequent, since those places are yours, and you have your own life, and this person has been so absent in the time since you last contact him. People sometimes try to figure these things out alone, but the point is that we need community, and you needed community and support as a single mother, and you found other ways to get it, but you still need that community. A friend with you for the first meeting could help you. Someone you trust. Someone whom you believe is both impartial and also very good at being there with you. This may also help you with your nerves, and will be someone with whom you can debrief afterward. Having someone else's trusted point of view after what will be a perhaps stressful meeting could prove invaluable.
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
Again, I just feel it bears repeating to know what you want. What you need to take care of yourself during this process. It's easy to hide behind the idea of "what's best for my daughter", but you have needs and feelings, too. Be aware of them, and prioritize yourself, too. You don't have to be superperson.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
Without sharing many details, I have had the opportunity to meet with family after much absent time. What I wanted was for my family member - who helped me with meeting other family - to be there for me, advocate for me, and to help me and support me in dealing with my own feelings as they arose. Your daughter is seven years old; she is young. Her feelings will change and evolve. However, her curiosity and need to know her father will never really wane. People need to know from where they come. Since she's young, though, and a child, she'll need your help with navigating some feelings. I'm sure since you're her mom that you're already a pro at figuring out how to explain stuff, and help her through new feelings. I will recommend a website that's for kids, and maybe it will help her or you in terms of easy, simple ways to talk about complicated stuff. That link is here. Click around and explore it - I like the way the articles are written, and there's also a "for parents" section. It will also help her to feel like she has an ally, perhaps a therapist she could meet by herself, and sounds like you're already on this. This way, she can talk about how she feels, and doesn't have to worry about "what if mom gets angry / sad / upset if I say x, y or z?" I wanted my liaison family member to be there for me, and to not feel abandoned by them. I wanted them to be on my side, and also to not tell me how to feel. I wanted that person to set clear parameters and explain every little step along the way, like, "Okay, first we'll meet and have some food. Then, we can decide how we feel afterward, and if you want, we can spend more time. We'll go home by such-and-such time, though, and you get to come home and stay in your own bed," etc. Whatever is actually germane, but generally something where clear expectations, outlines, and parameters are clearly explained, and where she can feel free to end the interaction at any time, but also to have a clear end-end time. You're the parent, and I'm sure she has to go to sleep at some point. It would also probably be beneficial to talk about her feelings, and start a conversation, casually, during a walk. Walking helps to move through feelings and also helps process feelings, too. Something gentle, unforced. Figure out as much as possible what she thinks, and know that it will change over time. But, be the mother she knows and trusts. For her end, she may feel abandoned by him, or curious, or hurt. Or she may feel none of these things. But, it is a vulnerable place for her, too.
I hope this is helpful.
Be good to yourself. Know what you want. Know that, in many ways, you'll be meeting a stranger. Stay grounded in yourself, and get the support you need. Have fun. Go watch a silly movie, too. You deserve to be happy, to laugh, and to enjoy the life you've built for yourself.
posted by simulacra at 5:50 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
To your questions:
1) Can you make suggestions for ways to help me to put aside my negative feelings when dealing with him? I really don’t want to have anything to do with him but I don’t want to drive him away for her sake.
For this, I really see yourself already answering this question when you talk about moving toward what would be helpful: that is, starting counseling. I think in this situation, first ask yourself what you need and how you can support yourself during this process. Yes, your daughter is excited for the idea of meeting her father, but since she does not yet know the information, you have time - as you've shown through your own preparations you mentioned - to think through this in a way that doesn't feel rushed and in a way that feels healthy and best for your life, too. In saying this, I don't imply keeping secrets from your daughter. I believe honesty is good, and necessary. However, young people are smart, and I think the best thing you can do is to care for yourself in this, too. You have legitimate reasons for the way you feel, and part of this new wild card appearing in your life sounds like also revisiting the moments from this past relationship. Smart is also consulting that lawyer. In a situation dealing with minors, potential child custody questions (your daughter's father intimates at this in his preposterous "I want us to be a family now" [paraphrasing] comment, with seemingly little real-world idea of what exactly helped you to create the family that you already have. Like you said, it wasn't easy being a single parent, but you did and are doing a great job of it.), this is very wise. For all of its oddities, part of family is also - in the material, legal, financial world - something that requires financial acumen. This is not to say that family must fit into a particular structure. Like yours, there are many families and many family models. Kudos to you for having built one that may not be the most financially supported, but is certainly valid and a fine model of one of many possible models.
2) What would be the best logistical process for this contact? (We live in different cities) How much? How soon? Where? Supervised? By whom?
Do you have a good friend, who knows about this, can be impartial, and with whom you feel like they'd be unconditionally on your side? I ask because it sounds like emotionally it may be challenging to meet with this person again, after so much time has passed. I would strongly suggest having a friend accompany you, someone whom you trust, someone who knows what you want out of this situation, and someone who can be supportive and perhaps even help remind you of what you'd like to say before you meet, and during the meeting. Absolutely create a situation where you are in familiar surroundings, but perhaps not at your favorite place to eat. A chain restaurant, or alternately somewhere nondescript, somewhere that does not have personal meaning for you, that you often frequent, since those places are yours, and you have your own life, and this person has been so absent in the time since you last contact him. People sometimes try to figure these things out alone, but the point is that we need community, and you needed community and support as a single mother, and you found other ways to get it, but you still need that community. A friend with you for the first meeting could help you. Someone you trust. Someone whom you believe is both impartial and also very good at being there with you. This may also help you with your nerves, and will be someone with whom you can debrief afterward. Having someone else's trusted point of view after what will be a perhaps stressful meeting could prove invaluable.
3) What other issues or concerns should be on my radar.
Again, I just feel it bears repeating to know what you want. What you need to take care of yourself during this process. It's easy to hide behind the idea of "what's best for my daughter", but you have needs and feelings, too. Be aware of them, and prioritize yourself, too. You don't have to be superperson.
4) If you are someone who has experienced this from the child’s perspective, what would be helpful and what should I avoid? What, if any parameters should I attempt to establish with him? Any advice at all from a child’s point of view would be much appreciated.
Without sharing many details, I have had the opportunity to meet with family after much absent time. What I wanted was for my family member - who helped me with meeting other family - to be there for me, advocate for me, and to help me and support me in dealing with my own feelings as they arose. Your daughter is seven years old; she is young. Her feelings will change and evolve. However, her curiosity and need to know her father will never really wane. People need to know from where they come. Since she's young, though, and a child, she'll need your help with navigating some feelings. I'm sure since you're her mom that you're already a pro at figuring out how to explain stuff, and help her through new feelings. I will recommend a website that's for kids, and maybe it will help her or you in terms of easy, simple ways to talk about complicated stuff. That link is here. Click around and explore it - I like the way the articles are written, and there's also a "for parents" section. It will also help her to feel like she has an ally, perhaps a therapist she could meet by herself, and sounds like you're already on this. This way, she can talk about how she feels, and doesn't have to worry about "what if mom gets angry / sad / upset if I say x, y or z?" I wanted my liaison family member to be there for me, and to not feel abandoned by them. I wanted them to be on my side, and also to not tell me how to feel. I wanted that person to set clear parameters and explain every little step along the way, like, "Okay, first we'll meet and have some food. Then, we can decide how we feel afterward, and if you want, we can spend more time. We'll go home by such-and-such time, though, and you get to come home and stay in your own bed," etc. Whatever is actually germane, but generally something where clear expectations, outlines, and parameters are clearly explained, and where she can feel free to end the interaction at any time, but also to have a clear end-end time. You're the parent, and I'm sure she has to go to sleep at some point. It would also probably be beneficial to talk about her feelings, and start a conversation, casually, during a walk. Walking helps to move through feelings and also helps process feelings, too. Something gentle, unforced. Figure out as much as possible what she thinks, and know that it will change over time. But, be the mother she knows and trusts. For her end, she may feel abandoned by him, or curious, or hurt. Or she may feel none of these things. But, it is a vulnerable place for her, too.
I hope this is helpful.
Be good to yourself. Know what you want. Know that, in many ways, you'll be meeting a stranger. Stay grounded in yourself, and get the support you need. Have fun. Go watch a silly movie, too. You deserve to be happy, to laugh, and to enjoy the life you've built for yourself.
posted by simulacra at 5:50 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "we start creating some family memories for her"
Obviously a lot of this is just advice from random people, but here's mine.
First, given his track record of flaking, and your track record of not speaking ill of him and your daughter believing his leaving had nothing to do with her, it will be vital that he not be flaky if he connects with his daughter. I mean, think about it: she believes that he didn't know her and so didn't leave because of her, and he shows up, meets her, then disappears again? Imagine the hit on her self-esteem.
So, you need to be clear and straightforward with him: tell him that given his track record as a flake, he needs to establish a clear and consistent track record of involvement with your family (specifically, you) before he can be a part of her life. You may or may not determine the track record should be based on financial commitments, gifts and cards (through you), regular phone calls to you to receive status updates, or whatever. The main thing is, he has to prove he's worthy of having the opportunity and power to disrupt her life, seeing as how he disrupted yours.
The red flag for me is the mention of "family memories." After all, she has a family, and he's not a part of it. There's a good chance he's feeling lonely or old or what-have-you, and so he's seeking contact with her to feel better about himself and his life choices. Are you really comfortable with his doing that without first taking steps to make things up to you, and prove he's going to be a valuable asset to her life?
Granted, when she's 18 she can seek him out all she wants, and if he's holding up his end of the bargain but you're not, that'd be a problem. From what you tell us, however, it seems as if he's failed to hold up his end of the bargain for quite some time, and proving he's on the ball is his journey to undertake based on the standards you think are appropriate. Hopefully he will, and then he can be a positive figure in her life -- and if not, better he be absent than be an actively negative figure.
posted by davejay at 5:52 PM on September 6, 2010 [15 favorites]
Obviously a lot of this is just advice from random people, but here's mine.
First, given his track record of flaking, and your track record of not speaking ill of him and your daughter believing his leaving had nothing to do with her, it will be vital that he not be flaky if he connects with his daughter. I mean, think about it: she believes that he didn't know her and so didn't leave because of her, and he shows up, meets her, then disappears again? Imagine the hit on her self-esteem.
So, you need to be clear and straightforward with him: tell him that given his track record as a flake, he needs to establish a clear and consistent track record of involvement with your family (specifically, you) before he can be a part of her life. You may or may not determine the track record should be based on financial commitments, gifts and cards (through you), regular phone calls to you to receive status updates, or whatever. The main thing is, he has to prove he's worthy of having the opportunity and power to disrupt her life, seeing as how he disrupted yours.
The red flag for me is the mention of "family memories." After all, she has a family, and he's not a part of it. There's a good chance he's feeling lonely or old or what-have-you, and so he's seeking contact with her to feel better about himself and his life choices. Are you really comfortable with his doing that without first taking steps to make things up to you, and prove he's going to be a valuable asset to her life?
Granted, when she's 18 she can seek him out all she wants, and if he's holding up his end of the bargain but you're not, that'd be a problem. From what you tell us, however, it seems as if he's failed to hold up his end of the bargain for quite some time, and proving he's on the ball is his journey to undertake based on the standards you think are appropriate. Hopefully he will, and then he can be a positive figure in her life -- and if not, better he be absent than be an actively negative figure.
posted by davejay at 5:52 PM on September 6, 2010 [15 favorites]
She was a little busy with a NEWBORN so I don't fault her for not calling.
No, she was pregnant for months before the newborn came about. She could have called to see how her friend of 20 years who was struggling with his dying mother was doing. He, of course could have and SHOULD HAVE done the same. For both of them to just walk away like the did is rather odd and makes me wonder if something more was going on.
He knew his responsibility and dropped it totally.
Yes, on this, 100%. While I think the original poster could have handled things better on her end, there is no question that he behaved much worse, has had plenty of time to make amends and didn't and she is justifiably and understandably angry about that.
At this point is seems like he's trying to make some amends and own up to this. Great, but that doesn't let him off the hook for seven years of neglect. This is why the two adults need to sit down and have several conversations with each other. A family counselor might be an excellent way to help them do this.
posted by nomadicink at 5:54 PM on September 6, 2010
No, she was pregnant for months before the newborn came about. She could have called to see how her friend of 20 years who was struggling with his dying mother was doing. He, of course could have and SHOULD HAVE done the same. For both of them to just walk away like the did is rather odd and makes me wonder if something more was going on.
He knew his responsibility and dropped it totally.
Yes, on this, 100%. While I think the original poster could have handled things better on her end, there is no question that he behaved much worse, has had plenty of time to make amends and didn't and she is justifiably and understandably angry about that.
At this point is seems like he's trying to make some amends and own up to this. Great, but that doesn't let him off the hook for seven years of neglect. This is why the two adults need to sit down and have several conversations with each other. A family counselor might be an excellent way to help them do this.
posted by nomadicink at 5:54 PM on September 6, 2010
She was a little busy with a NEWBORN so I don't fault her for not calling. He knew his responsibility and dropped it totally. And was old enough to know better at the time. He was no child.
That's true, but maybe he didn't know what his responsibility was? Or maybe he though he was being told to back off? We don't know. People in stressful situations, especially grief or caring for sickness, don't often act rationally. We can't presume to know what the deal was.
I still say lawyer and background check first. And I would really want to know what his motive is NOW to initiate contact.
Perhaps the two adults in this scenario should meet with a family counselor FIRST to set ground rules and plot out a plan to introduce this man to his daughter.
I can't argue with the lawyer thing, except that it is their job to protect the interests of their client, not foster and shepherd a potential relationship. You lose nothing by waiting until you think it is necessary. It needlessly raises the stakes, especially if that's not something the mother is interested in. I think she said she doesn't want any help unless he volunteers, didn't she?
Great idea with the family counselor though.
posted by gjc at 5:58 PM on September 6, 2010
That's true, but maybe he didn't know what his responsibility was? Or maybe he though he was being told to back off? We don't know. People in stressful situations, especially grief or caring for sickness, don't often act rationally. We can't presume to know what the deal was.
I still say lawyer and background check first. And I would really want to know what his motive is NOW to initiate contact.
Perhaps the two adults in this scenario should meet with a family counselor FIRST to set ground rules and plot out a plan to introduce this man to his daughter.
I can't argue with the lawyer thing, except that it is their job to protect the interests of their client, not foster and shepherd a potential relationship. You lose nothing by waiting until you think it is necessary. It needlessly raises the stakes, especially if that's not something the mother is interested in. I think she said she doesn't want any help unless he volunteers, didn't she?
Great idea with the family counselor though.
posted by gjc at 5:58 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: She then never calls him again, despite knowing his mother is dying. No phone call, no email, nothing. Eventually she sends a letter, 2 months after the kid is born. Yes, he was asshole, but she abandoned a 20 year old friend and father of her kid 'cause he hung up on her once? That's kinda crazy and lousy too.
Oh, come on. He abandoned a friend of twenty years and mother of his child because she told him she was pregnant with his child. Someone that disrespectful is not owed anything- you can't abandon someone who has already abandoned you. If he wanted her sympathy, he wouldn't have been a goddamn jerk and ignored the mail as well. His mom may have been very ill, but she didn't pass away for a few years after that.
OP, I agree with Ideefixee:
I don't like that he "wants to make family memories" for her. She's got a family. He's not actually part of it. Family members do the heavy lifting, not just the holiday fun part.
This is something to keep in mind when laying the groundwork for him to possibly meet her. I think insisting on some "heavy lifting" in the form of child support is not out of line. I would also be wary of anyone who seems to bolt when things get intense. What if he abandons you and your daughter again for some reason? He seems pretty damn flighty to me.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:02 PM on September 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
Oh, come on. He abandoned a friend of twenty years and mother of his child because she told him she was pregnant with his child. Someone that disrespectful is not owed anything- you can't abandon someone who has already abandoned you. If he wanted her sympathy, he wouldn't have been a goddamn jerk and ignored the mail as well. His mom may have been very ill, but she didn't pass away for a few years after that.
OP, I agree with Ideefixee:
I don't like that he "wants to make family memories" for her. She's got a family. He's not actually part of it. Family members do the heavy lifting, not just the holiday fun part.
This is something to keep in mind when laying the groundwork for him to possibly meet her. I think insisting on some "heavy lifting" in the form of child support is not out of line. I would also be wary of anyone who seems to bolt when things get intense. What if he abandons you and your daughter again for some reason? He seems pretty damn flighty to me.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:02 PM on September 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
Response by poster: Regarding my not being in touch with him: I can understand that with only the information that I have given to go on, one might question whether I could have handled things better. Believe me, I have laid awake in bed at night many times over the years wondering the same thing.
Suffice it to say, I didn't feel comfortable continuing to pursue contact when it had been clearly indicated that contact was not welcome. I was also in a bit of shock at the time, I think, and trying to figure out how to rearrange my life to be able to offer stability and happiness to my daughter. Maybe I could/should have done things differently and I am willing to accept that as a possibility. No offense is taken at the suggestion.
posted by lunaazul at 6:05 PM on September 6, 2010
Suffice it to say, I didn't feel comfortable continuing to pursue contact when it had been clearly indicated that contact was not welcome. I was also in a bit of shock at the time, I think, and trying to figure out how to rearrange my life to be able to offer stability and happiness to my daughter. Maybe I could/should have done things differently and I am willing to accept that as a possibility. No offense is taken at the suggestion.
posted by lunaazul at 6:05 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: I'd suggest you talk to him about your concerns for your daughter (and possibly eventually, your feelings) before they meet. You better believe he's got his own version of why he hasn't been in her life. And she will ask him.
Supervised visits are a must if only because he is still a "stranger" to her. Up to this point, he's been nothing more than a sperm donor in relationship to his daughter. Your daughter will be very excited and have these ideas of who he is and what great things will happen from meeting him but also emotionally vulnerable. Her father, however great his intentions, should approach this new relationship with care and respect. Having you there in the beginning can be reassuring to her and help to guide a nurturing relationship with her dad. This is a perfect protective mother hen moment.
Your daughter is lucky to have a thoughtful and supportive mom like you. I sympathize with your feelings of resentment and hope that eventually all your sacrifice will be rewarded. Good luck to you. I really wish you all a happy outcome!
posted by loquat at 6:06 PM on September 6, 2010
Supervised visits are a must if only because he is still a "stranger" to her. Up to this point, he's been nothing more than a sperm donor in relationship to his daughter. Your daughter will be very excited and have these ideas of who he is and what great things will happen from meeting him but also emotionally vulnerable. Her father, however great his intentions, should approach this new relationship with care and respect. Having you there in the beginning can be reassuring to her and help to guide a nurturing relationship with her dad. This is a perfect protective mother hen moment.
Your daughter is lucky to have a thoughtful and supportive mom like you. I sympathize with your feelings of resentment and hope that eventually all your sacrifice will be rewarded. Good luck to you. I really wish you all a happy outcome!
posted by loquat at 6:06 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: Nobody is saying to make up stories, but "and then he hung up on me" is just too much for a 7 year old.
Yes, I think she’s too young for all the details, which I mentioned in both of my posts.
And she doesn't need to be told Daddy Messed Up. She knows that, because her friends have daddies and she doesn't. Hearing mom tell a painful story just prejudices her ability to judge the guy on who he is now.
I wouldn’t assume she already knows that; it sounds like the OP has already been more than kind to the father of the child. I think it’s far more likely that the child, being optimistic as children usually are, is likely to have too high of expectations for her father. You’re assuming that “who he is now” is actually any different from “who he’s been her entire life” and we just don’t know that. He could very well still have only selfish and immature reasons for wanting to visit that will ultimately disappoint her. Also, “prejudices” her against the father? The father chose his own actions. It is completely fair to judge people by their past actions. What’s naïve and silly is to assume he’s totally changed. And he doesn’t really automatically deserve a clean slate.
The mom and the dad here were friends for 20 of the last 27 years. That counts for something. This isn't a complete stranger.
To the child, the father is a complete stranger. You can’t have it both ways; if we are to credit the mother’s opinion of the father, you can’t choose to just gloss over her anger and say “but they were friends once.” They haven’t spoken for seven years. She doesn’t think highly of him. If we’re using her past knowledge of him, he’s actually worse off than a complete stranger.
He may not deserve any of this, but the daughter deserves to have a fair shot at knowing her father.
A seven-year-old child could still believe in Santa Claus. If Daddy tells her he couldn’t come see her because mommy was so mean, she’ll want to believe him. She’ll want to trust him. She shouldn’t just be handed over to him as a “clean slate” – this is not fair to her. She’s not 18, she’s a child who doesn’t yet have adult judgment. It’s appropriate for mom to step in and prepare her.
posted by Nixy at 6:13 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Yes, I think she’s too young for all the details, which I mentioned in both of my posts.
And she doesn't need to be told Daddy Messed Up. She knows that, because her friends have daddies and she doesn't. Hearing mom tell a painful story just prejudices her ability to judge the guy on who he is now.
I wouldn’t assume she already knows that; it sounds like the OP has already been more than kind to the father of the child. I think it’s far more likely that the child, being optimistic as children usually are, is likely to have too high of expectations for her father. You’re assuming that “who he is now” is actually any different from “who he’s been her entire life” and we just don’t know that. He could very well still have only selfish and immature reasons for wanting to visit that will ultimately disappoint her. Also, “prejudices” her against the father? The father chose his own actions. It is completely fair to judge people by their past actions. What’s naïve and silly is to assume he’s totally changed. And he doesn’t really automatically deserve a clean slate.
The mom and the dad here were friends for 20 of the last 27 years. That counts for something. This isn't a complete stranger.
To the child, the father is a complete stranger. You can’t have it both ways; if we are to credit the mother’s opinion of the father, you can’t choose to just gloss over her anger and say “but they were friends once.” They haven’t spoken for seven years. She doesn’t think highly of him. If we’re using her past knowledge of him, he’s actually worse off than a complete stranger.
He may not deserve any of this, but the daughter deserves to have a fair shot at knowing her father.
A seven-year-old child could still believe in Santa Claus. If Daddy tells her he couldn’t come see her because mommy was so mean, she’ll want to believe him. She’ll want to trust him. She shouldn’t just be handed over to him as a “clean slate” – this is not fair to her. She’s not 18, she’s a child who doesn’t yet have adult judgment. It’s appropriate for mom to step in and prepare her.
posted by Nixy at 6:13 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Mod note: few comments removed - you two should have already taken this to email.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:13 PM on September 6, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:13 PM on September 6, 2010
To add:
For the second question, I really suggest initially meeting with him one-on-one in person, with a friend. And if you want to do some phone call "screenings" first, do that. But know what you want out of the meeting. You have a right to ask questions, and make your own calls about his answers to them. If you want, you can even make the decision to not meet him at all, based on phone calls you may or may not have with him. The therapist can probably give you some pointers on how to unravel what your thought process is around his contacting you, and what he expressed.
The above echoes micawber's comments.
I do not say this with the intention of talking any ill of your daughter's father. But, you're right. This is out of the blue. You deserve to figure out how you'd like to respond, and take the time you need to do it in a way that feels good to you. Like the line goes, "First affix the oxygen mask to your face and make sure you're able to breathe before helping someone else," or however it goes.
posted by simulacra at 6:16 PM on September 6, 2010
For the second question, I really suggest initially meeting with him one-on-one in person, with a friend. And if you want to do some phone call "screenings" first, do that. But know what you want out of the meeting. You have a right to ask questions, and make your own calls about his answers to them. If you want, you can even make the decision to not meet him at all, based on phone calls you may or may not have with him. The therapist can probably give you some pointers on how to unravel what your thought process is around his contacting you, and what he expressed.
The above echoes micawber's comments.
I do not say this with the intention of talking any ill of your daughter's father. But, you're right. This is out of the blue. You deserve to figure out how you'd like to respond, and take the time you need to do it in a way that feels good to you. Like the line goes, "First affix the oxygen mask to your face and make sure you're able to breathe before helping someone else," or however it goes.
posted by simulacra at 6:16 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: When you talk to him, make sure he understands that he should not talk to your daughter about "being a family." He needs to take it slowly with her, and not promise things that he cannot deliver. Otherwise she'll come back to you wondering why she isn't getting what he's telling her she can have.
posted by Sukey Says at 6:34 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Sukey Says at 6:34 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Your daughter shouldn't hear from him or see him or meet him until you are satisfied that he is serious. When she was a baby, she didn't know that her father had promised to be a part of her life and then never called back. Now, if you tell her, she will know. So don't tell her until you're sure he won't flake out again. That means that you have a series of conversations with him about his intentions and about what role he's going to be allowed to have in your life and hers. It may even mean that he has to come to your city to visit you, without seeing her, to prove that he's really serious. Whatever it takes so that she's never waiting for him to show up, only to have him disappoint her.
I'm also going to link to this surprisingly insightful clip from Beverly Hills, 90210 (it's the first 30 seconds or so of the video). Basically, Kelly is telling her mother why it was such a huge problem for her when her mom badmouthed her dad, and how it affects not just her relationship with her dad, but also her ability to make good judgments about people and to trust her own instincts. Telling your daughter that her father is a disappointment, even if it's true, puts her in a terrible position, because she's going to want to love him. You have to protect her as best you can from being hurt, but you also have to let her develop her own relationship with him free from the baggage of your relationship with him. She's too young to understand the complexities of adult relationships; all she knows is that this man is part of her. So anything you do that tells her that this part of her is bad or wrong or not to be trusted should be done between the two of you as adults, without involving her.
Good luck! You sound like a great mom, and I really hope that all of this works out as well as it can for all of you.
posted by decathecting at 6:42 PM on September 6, 2010
I'm also going to link to this surprisingly insightful clip from Beverly Hills, 90210 (it's the first 30 seconds or so of the video). Basically, Kelly is telling her mother why it was such a huge problem for her when her mom badmouthed her dad, and how it affects not just her relationship with her dad, but also her ability to make good judgments about people and to trust her own instincts. Telling your daughter that her father is a disappointment, even if it's true, puts her in a terrible position, because she's going to want to love him. You have to protect her as best you can from being hurt, but you also have to let her develop her own relationship with him free from the baggage of your relationship with him. She's too young to understand the complexities of adult relationships; all she knows is that this man is part of her. So anything you do that tells her that this part of her is bad or wrong or not to be trusted should be done between the two of you as adults, without involving her.
Good luck! You sound like a great mom, and I really hope that all of this works out as well as it can for all of you.
posted by decathecting at 6:42 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: I think there needs to be a lot communication before any visits are on the schedule. You and he need to talk and email, and he needs to establish himself, and his reliability with your daughter. Starting to talk to her by phone and letter and cards is a great idea, to get things started. Then worry about face to face visits, on your turf, under your rules.
I totally agree with davejay's comment - he has to prove he's not going to flake on your daughter, and show that this isn't just a whim for him. He's had seven years to contact you and her and I'm mighty curious as to why it's so important now - and the self-centeredness to think that no family memories could have been createdwithout his involvement is a little tiny caution flag for me. She's not some doll that he can pick up and play with now that he's got the time and the impulse, and he needs to know that.
posted by lemniskate at 6:58 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I totally agree with davejay's comment - he has to prove he's not going to flake on your daughter, and show that this isn't just a whim for him. He's had seven years to contact you and her and I'm mighty curious as to why it's so important now - and the self-centeredness to think that no family memories could have been createdwithout his involvement is a little tiny caution flag for me. She's not some doll that he can pick up and play with now that he's got the time and the impulse, and he needs to know that.
posted by lemniskate at 6:58 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I think it's really telling that he wants to "make family memories" rather than, say, "help provide for her," "make sure her future is secure," "be an equal source of financial and emotional support for her," "do my fair share of the work in raising her," "give her another stable parental presence in her life" etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but every indication seems to be that he wants to do the things that are sporadic, fun for him/give him good feelings, and don't require taking on responsibility or sacrifice, or making any sort of firm commitments.
Before anything else, I would clarify this with him if I were you, find out what he actually wants to happen here.
posted by Ashley801 at 6:59 PM on September 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but every indication seems to be that he wants to do the things that are sporadic, fun for him/give him good feelings, and don't require taking on responsibility or sacrifice, or making any sort of firm commitments.
Before anything else, I would clarify this with him if I were you, find out what he actually wants to happen here.
posted by Ashley801 at 6:59 PM on September 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
Best answer: That family memories stuff sticks in my craw. I also second micawber's comment. This guy should come meet with you as many times as you need to feel comfortable. The only thing worse than not giving love to a child is giving it and then ripping it away without notice--and this guy seems like the type.
posted by milarepa at 7:03 PM on September 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by milarepa at 7:03 PM on September 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
"He has indicated that he would now like us to be a family" strikes me as incredibly presumptuous and selfish. Unless he can manage/change his expectations, how can this go well?
posted by valeries at 7:06 PM on September 6, 2010
posted by valeries at 7:06 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: Nthing that he needs to come to you, the visits shouldn't be unsupervised (mostly to avoid any misunderstandings) and that care will have to be taken to not get your daughter's hopes up.
When you talk to him, make sure he understands that he should not talk to your daughter about "being a family." He needs to take it slowly with her, and not promise things that he cannot deliver. Otherwise she'll come back to you wondering why she isn't getting what he's telling her she can have.
This was a big red flag to me too. I think that it should be clear that what you are agreeing to is very specifically a visit with his daughter, not an automatic membership card to the family. You can frame this as protecting his daughter's feelings, to help you avoid letting your (not unjustified IMO) resentment creep in.
In fact, that would be a good drum to beat throughout this process. Any decision can be run vocally and quite literally through the "Is This Best For Daughter" filter, for both your benefit (i.e. staying on the high road) and his (i.e. this is what parenting is.)
No-one should get their hopes up, really. No-one's feelings are in a position to be predicted or trifled with.
If I were in your situation, I'd probably be coming up with a few alternate scenarios that I think could be realistic level of involvement, should his stated aspirations prove unworkable.
posted by desuetude at 8:14 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
When you talk to him, make sure he understands that he should not talk to your daughter about "being a family." He needs to take it slowly with her, and not promise things that he cannot deliver. Otherwise she'll come back to you wondering why she isn't getting what he's telling her she can have.
This was a big red flag to me too. I think that it should be clear that what you are agreeing to is very specifically a visit with his daughter, not an automatic membership card to the family. You can frame this as protecting his daughter's feelings, to help you avoid letting your (not unjustified IMO) resentment creep in.
In fact, that would be a good drum to beat throughout this process. Any decision can be run vocally and quite literally through the "Is This Best For Daughter" filter, for both your benefit (i.e. staying on the high road) and his (i.e. this is what parenting is.)
No-one should get their hopes up, really. No-one's feelings are in a position to be predicted or trifled with.
If I were in your situation, I'd probably be coming up with a few alternate scenarios that I think could be realistic level of involvement, should his stated aspirations prove unworkable.
posted by desuetude at 8:14 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all so much for your insight, advice, wisdom, and support. I can’t properly express how you’ve all shored me up and provided me additional strength with which to take on this challenge. I must have something in my eyes. Oh, that would be the tears.
There are so many suggestions that have me saying “oh yah! I never thought of that!” and “that’s a good point!”. I am going to be going back through this thread with a fine-toothed comb to make myself a list and have it handy when things are emotionally charged and I feel I don’t have my wits about me.
Honestly, if you ever doubt whether the time you put in to provide an answer to someone’s question is worthwhile, I assure you it is. You have made a marked difference for me and for my daughter today. Thank you.
posted by lunaazul at 10:09 PM on September 6, 2010 [12 favorites]
There are so many suggestions that have me saying “oh yah! I never thought of that!” and “that’s a good point!”. I am going to be going back through this thread with a fine-toothed comb to make myself a list and have it handy when things are emotionally charged and I feel I don’t have my wits about me.
Honestly, if you ever doubt whether the time you put in to provide an answer to someone’s question is worthwhile, I assure you it is. You have made a marked difference for me and for my daughter today. Thank you.
posted by lunaazul at 10:09 PM on September 6, 2010 [12 favorites]
Best answer: help me put aside negative feelings
First, it is important to understand that when it comes to pregnancy, women hold all the cards. You'll have to imagine the multitude of thoughts that may have gone through his head upon hearing the news. His initial shock is not admirable but should be understandable. And understanding what he felt (and is feeling now) should help you deal with your the negative feelings.
You were using contraception but became pregnant, and told him about the pregnancy after you had broken up and he had moved away. For many men, alarm bells would be going off in their head - especially if you were on the pill or the "keeper of the condoms". He can't be blamed for wondering if it was a ploy or a trap, most men would wonder the same.
Beyond the nagging doubts, it must be a terrible thing to tell someone "get an abortion". It is always the woman's choice and the impact on her is so much greater than to a man. If she says "No", it could be said that he tried to kill his child. Since it was entirely your decision anyway, it may have seemed easiest to abandon you and hope that you came to the decision that an abortion was best on you own.
So you made your choice without him and decided to go it alone, but your choice had life-altering consequences for him too. He may have resented you for keeping the child against his will, think you tried to trap him, think you were better off without his bullshit in your life, etc. While you were basking in the warm glow of motherly love, he was stewing in resentment, his powerlessness, and his fear of what the next decisions he had no way of controlling may be. Despite hardships, you became happier and more sure of your decision everyday you got to watch your beautiful child grow. On top of hardships, he despaired of lack of control, and everyday he failed to care for his daughter his sense of unfitness as a father grew.
I have no way of knowing if that's how it went down. But most men can relate to that scenario, even if they claim they are far more noble and good. So maybe now your daughter's father would like to reclaim some of his goodness, prove himself a man fit to be a father, and gain a little control over the curveballs life throws him. He's a guy, so he may have trouble expressing all that, and instead he talks about making "family memories" (i.e. letting go of the past and moving forward, maybe not as one-big-happy-family, but as family nonetheless).
posted by McGuillicuddy at 1:41 AM on September 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
First, it is important to understand that when it comes to pregnancy, women hold all the cards. You'll have to imagine the multitude of thoughts that may have gone through his head upon hearing the news. His initial shock is not admirable but should be understandable. And understanding what he felt (and is feeling now) should help you deal with your the negative feelings.
You were using contraception but became pregnant, and told him about the pregnancy after you had broken up and he had moved away. For many men, alarm bells would be going off in their head - especially if you were on the pill or the "keeper of the condoms". He can't be blamed for wondering if it was a ploy or a trap, most men would wonder the same.
Beyond the nagging doubts, it must be a terrible thing to tell someone "get an abortion". It is always the woman's choice and the impact on her is so much greater than to a man. If she says "No", it could be said that he tried to kill his child. Since it was entirely your decision anyway, it may have seemed easiest to abandon you and hope that you came to the decision that an abortion was best on you own.
So you made your choice without him and decided to go it alone, but your choice had life-altering consequences for him too. He may have resented you for keeping the child against his will, think you tried to trap him, think you were better off without his bullshit in your life, etc. While you were basking in the warm glow of motherly love, he was stewing in resentment, his powerlessness, and his fear of what the next decisions he had no way of controlling may be. Despite hardships, you became happier and more sure of your decision everyday you got to watch your beautiful child grow. On top of hardships, he despaired of lack of control, and everyday he failed to care for his daughter his sense of unfitness as a father grew.
I have no way of knowing if that's how it went down. But most men can relate to that scenario, even if they claim they are far more noble and good. So maybe now your daughter's father would like to reclaim some of his goodness, prove himself a man fit to be a father, and gain a little control over the curveballs life throws him. He's a guy, so he may have trouble expressing all that, and instead he talks about making "family memories" (i.e. letting go of the past and moving forward, maybe not as one-big-happy-family, but as family nonetheless).
posted by McGuillicuddy at 1:41 AM on September 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Couple more notes:
My parents separated when I was very young, about 3, and I went with my mom. I didn't see my dad or hear from my dad for about 13 years. During that time, Mom never talked bad about him, though she had ample reason to do so. When I finally spent a summer with him, I was able to come to my own conclusions about him, which were less than flattering.
Fast forward a few years, say I'm about 18 or so and through various family means, I find out that mom had been in regular contact with him over the years and had been refusing him contact with me until she felt I was ready. This bothered me a lot, particularly after a I find out he was continuing to reach out to me into my late 20s or so and she was refusing to pass on messages from him. I doubt it would have changed much about relationship with him if he had been able reach me, but I'll forever resent mom's meddling, no matter her other good qualities.
The point here is don't mess around their relationship based on what you think he should and should not have done. Doing so could make you look terrible in your child's eyes.
I say this also as step parent, who had to deal with the frequently flaky biological father of my kid. Things like him saying he'd be there to pick the kid up and then just not being there, so then the kid is wondering where dad is, we said he'd be there and no he isn't so what did we do to scare him away, etc. Fun times.
Still, we never spoke bad of him around her. EVER. We never denied him a chance to interact with her, ever. If he was going to flake, then he was going to flake and we'd deal with the fallout from that, but we never, ever told him "no, you can't see her". We cautioned him to remember he was dealing with child who loved him, yes, but never denied him if he was trying to make the effort.
The kid hated us a times, of course, particularly her mother, whom she blamed for everything, 'cause daddy was so wonderful, right? Things weren't helped by the kid being very much like her dad personality wise, so they always just kinda of clicked when they hung out, so of course anytime they couldn't it was our fault, right? That was painful and frustrating, incredibly so at times. Here was this, at times, absolute flake who wasn't contributing shit to her life, yet he could do no wrong, while the actual work of parenting was being done by us and we were constantly wrong and resented.
But again, we never spoke bad of him in front of her, nor denied him contact. and sometimes he'd come through, sometimes he wouldn't. And so, over the years, through the kids relationship with her dad, she learned a few things about him. She grew and slowly came to see his faults and realize certain things about him. It was long process and not an even one but she reached it on her terms and in her way without any interference from us.
One benefit of our approach is that there are no lingering hard feelings from our daughter towards us, as I have towards my mother. The kid knows she was never forbidden or prevented from seeing and contacting him or him her. She learned to love him, despite his faults and take what he could give.
These days, she's in college and he's no longer sometimes contributes what money he can to her and they get along well. That final happy goal may not have happened if we had interfered. The kid would have reason's to blame us and we'd probably have our own doubts about our actions. But the way we did, leaving the door open and thinking long term, he was able to stand or fall own his merits and actions and that's how it should be, IMO.
posted by nomadicink at 5:44 AM on September 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
My parents separated when I was very young, about 3, and I went with my mom. I didn't see my dad or hear from my dad for about 13 years. During that time, Mom never talked bad about him, though she had ample reason to do so. When I finally spent a summer with him, I was able to come to my own conclusions about him, which were less than flattering.
Fast forward a few years, say I'm about 18 or so and through various family means, I find out that mom had been in regular contact with him over the years and had been refusing him contact with me until she felt I was ready. This bothered me a lot, particularly after a I find out he was continuing to reach out to me into my late 20s or so and she was refusing to pass on messages from him. I doubt it would have changed much about relationship with him if he had been able reach me, but I'll forever resent mom's meddling, no matter her other good qualities.
The point here is don't mess around their relationship based on what you think he should and should not have done. Doing so could make you look terrible in your child's eyes.
I say this also as step parent, who had to deal with the frequently flaky biological father of my kid. Things like him saying he'd be there to pick the kid up and then just not being there, so then the kid is wondering where dad is, we said he'd be there and no he isn't so what did we do to scare him away, etc. Fun times.
Still, we never spoke bad of him around her. EVER. We never denied him a chance to interact with her, ever. If he was going to flake, then he was going to flake and we'd deal with the fallout from that, but we never, ever told him "no, you can't see her". We cautioned him to remember he was dealing with child who loved him, yes, but never denied him if he was trying to make the effort.
The kid hated us a times, of course, particularly her mother, whom she blamed for everything, 'cause daddy was so wonderful, right? Things weren't helped by the kid being very much like her dad personality wise, so they always just kinda of clicked when they hung out, so of course anytime they couldn't it was our fault, right? That was painful and frustrating, incredibly so at times. Here was this, at times, absolute flake who wasn't contributing shit to her life, yet he could do no wrong, while the actual work of parenting was being done by us and we were constantly wrong and resented.
But again, we never spoke bad of him in front of her, nor denied him contact. and sometimes he'd come through, sometimes he wouldn't. And so, over the years, through the kids relationship with her dad, she learned a few things about him. She grew and slowly came to see his faults and realize certain things about him. It was long process and not an even one but she reached it on her terms and in her way without any interference from us.
One benefit of our approach is that there are no lingering hard feelings from our daughter towards us, as I have towards my mother. The kid knows she was never forbidden or prevented from seeing and contacting him or him her. She learned to love him, despite his faults and take what he could give.
These days, she's in college and he's no longer sometimes contributes what money he can to her and they get along well. That final happy goal may not have happened if we had interfered. The kid would have reason's to blame us and we'd probably have our own doubts about our actions. But the way we did, leaving the door open and thinking long term, he was able to stand or fall own his merits and actions and that's how it should be, IMO.
posted by nomadicink at 5:44 AM on September 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There are a lot of lengthy responses already, and I'm coming late to the party, so forgive me for jumping in without reading everything first and possibly rehashing the same ideas.
My kids' (now 12 and 15) father has been rather unreliable about contact and support all along. There were long periods of separation and minimal contact, and a couple of 2-year spans in which he disappeared without leaving a forwarding address. When the kids were 5 and 8, after the second of these disappearances, I got a phone call at my mom's house over Christmas, expressing interest in re-establishing contact. We proceeded forward with that--the first couple of visits he came to visit us in our town. In our case he stayed with us, but obviously if financials and logistics allow, a hotel might be better in your case.
Things went ok in those visits, and since then we have established a loose pattern of visits once or twice a year. We now live on opposite coasts, and the kids were flying out to see him. My 15 yo just got back from a 1-month trip with his dad to dad's home country to travel around and meet a mess o relatives on that side of the family. The trip certainly had its ups and downs. My son really appreciated the opportunity to meet his "other" family, but for better or worse, he now has a much better first-hand understanding of his dad, and all of his dad's many ... weak points ... which are something that I have made efforts to keep mostly to myself.
As to how to let go of resentments. One thing that has helped immensely is to embrace this as my general philosophy when it comes to all people, and their dad specifically: if life is like a test, most people are trying to pass it. It's just that some people are sorely lacking in the skills, knowledge, or values to do well on some parts of the test. In other words, most people are doing the best they can do with what they have. The ones that come across as failures and fuck-ups just don't--at the moment--have what it takes to do well.
To put it bluntly, my kids' dad is a fuck-up. He has a fucked-up educational track record, a fucked-up employment record, and a fucked-up history as a husband and father. I'm pretty sure he did not fuck these things up on purpose, nor does he enjoy fucking things up. If he could have avoided fucking things up in the past, or find a way to stop fucking up in the future, I'm sure he would. He is less fucked up now, in his late 40s, than he was in his early 30s. But it is what it is, and my main feeling towards him these days is not anger or resentment, but pity. It would suck to be him. As emotionally and financially difficulty as it has been to raise my kids on my own, I'm glad I got handed that lot in life, and not his.
The final thing I would mention is that for your daughter's sake, I suggest you do what you can to avoid setting up her dad for failure. Yes, in the best of all possible worlds he would rightly shoulder responsibility for making the phone calls, taking the initiative about scheduling visits, etc. etc. But since you already know that responsibility is not his strong suit, leaving the entire burden to him to maintain ongoing contact is likely to fail, and whatever "I knew it would turn out like this" moral victory you might gain is a hollow one. Of course, the "what you can do" in this regard is subject to the same principle of limitations: you do the best you can, with what you have.
Peace.
posted by SomeTrickPony at 6:38 AM on September 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
My kids' (now 12 and 15) father has been rather unreliable about contact and support all along. There were long periods of separation and minimal contact, and a couple of 2-year spans in which he disappeared without leaving a forwarding address. When the kids were 5 and 8, after the second of these disappearances, I got a phone call at my mom's house over Christmas, expressing interest in re-establishing contact. We proceeded forward with that--the first couple of visits he came to visit us in our town. In our case he stayed with us, but obviously if financials and logistics allow, a hotel might be better in your case.
Things went ok in those visits, and since then we have established a loose pattern of visits once or twice a year. We now live on opposite coasts, and the kids were flying out to see him. My 15 yo just got back from a 1-month trip with his dad to dad's home country to travel around and meet a mess o relatives on that side of the family. The trip certainly had its ups and downs. My son really appreciated the opportunity to meet his "other" family, but for better or worse, he now has a much better first-hand understanding of his dad, and all of his dad's many ... weak points ... which are something that I have made efforts to keep mostly to myself.
As to how to let go of resentments. One thing that has helped immensely is to embrace this as my general philosophy when it comes to all people, and their dad specifically: if life is like a test, most people are trying to pass it. It's just that some people are sorely lacking in the skills, knowledge, or values to do well on some parts of the test. In other words, most people are doing the best they can do with what they have. The ones that come across as failures and fuck-ups just don't--at the moment--have what it takes to do well.
To put it bluntly, my kids' dad is a fuck-up. He has a fucked-up educational track record, a fucked-up employment record, and a fucked-up history as a husband and father. I'm pretty sure he did not fuck these things up on purpose, nor does he enjoy fucking things up. If he could have avoided fucking things up in the past, or find a way to stop fucking up in the future, I'm sure he would. He is less fucked up now, in his late 40s, than he was in his early 30s. But it is what it is, and my main feeling towards him these days is not anger or resentment, but pity. It would suck to be him. As emotionally and financially difficulty as it has been to raise my kids on my own, I'm glad I got handed that lot in life, and not his.
The final thing I would mention is that for your daughter's sake, I suggest you do what you can to avoid setting up her dad for failure. Yes, in the best of all possible worlds he would rightly shoulder responsibility for making the phone calls, taking the initiative about scheduling visits, etc. etc. But since you already know that responsibility is not his strong suit, leaving the entire burden to him to maintain ongoing contact is likely to fail, and whatever "I knew it would turn out like this" moral victory you might gain is a hollow one. Of course, the "what you can do" in this regard is subject to the same principle of limitations: you do the best you can, with what you have.
Peace.
posted by SomeTrickPony at 6:38 AM on September 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You have received a ton of good and thoughtful advice here so I am just going to focus on point or thought I did not see made so far:
Do not tie visitation to child support. They are separate issues and should be treated as such. To tie them together is to essentially sell this man access to his child, or can easily be construed that way.
Point 1: He is her father, and it is very likely in her best interests to get to meet him and maybe develop a relationship with him if that turns out to be possible. I would invite him to come visit for the weekend, staying in a hotel at his own expense. I would however based on past history also take steps to protect this child. I would not tell her his coming until he lands on the Friday, and then would ask her if she would like to see him on the Saturday.
You do this because it's something you can do for your child, all other issue aside.
Point 2: He is her father, and he has both rights and obligations here. Child support is one of those obligations. While the child support is for the benefit for your daughter, it's negotiation and management is between you and her father and should never be allowed to impact on their relationship together.
And while it is a legal obligation, it is also your call as the custodial parent on how you want to deal with it. You can lawyer up, go to court and get the full amount allowed by your state, complete with back payments. You can work out an informal arrangement between the two of you for $X per month from here forward. You can decide you want nothing from him now but you want him to agree to pay college tuition and for him to begin saving for that now, with a formal legal agreement.
I know people who have all of these arrangements and a dozen more. Just be aware that currently you have all of the custody, all of the financial burden, and all of the control. Changes to the arrangement will tip that balance and you want to weigh those consequences very carefully. What is legally and morally your right may not actually be what is right for your carefully nurtured family unit.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:05 AM on September 7, 2010
Do not tie visitation to child support. They are separate issues and should be treated as such. To tie them together is to essentially sell this man access to his child, or can easily be construed that way.
Point 1: He is her father, and it is very likely in her best interests to get to meet him and maybe develop a relationship with him if that turns out to be possible. I would invite him to come visit for the weekend, staying in a hotel at his own expense. I would however based on past history also take steps to protect this child. I would not tell her his coming until he lands on the Friday, and then would ask her if she would like to see him on the Saturday.
You do this because it's something you can do for your child, all other issue aside.
Point 2: He is her father, and he has both rights and obligations here. Child support is one of those obligations. While the child support is for the benefit for your daughter, it's negotiation and management is between you and her father and should never be allowed to impact on their relationship together.
And while it is a legal obligation, it is also your call as the custodial parent on how you want to deal with it. You can lawyer up, go to court and get the full amount allowed by your state, complete with back payments. You can work out an informal arrangement between the two of you for $X per month from here forward. You can decide you want nothing from him now but you want him to agree to pay college tuition and for him to begin saving for that now, with a formal legal agreement.
I know people who have all of these arrangements and a dozen more. Just be aware that currently you have all of the custody, all of the financial burden, and all of the control. Changes to the arrangement will tip that balance and you want to weigh those consequences very carefully. What is legally and morally your right may not actually be what is right for your carefully nurtured family unit.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:05 AM on September 7, 2010
Best answer: I admire the way you're handling this situation and even this question with such grace.
So much has been said that I have little to add, but I did want to say that two of life's most intense experiences are having a child and losing a parent. I'm not saying you should have done more for him (definitely not), and I'm not excusing him exactly. I'm only saying that depending on his relationship with his mother, it really may have absorbed all his emotional energy. I have definitely seen people completely stop everything beyond surviving the 9-5 on top of the phone calls to hospice, the resolving old feelings, the probate, and the grieving. All of this does not make what he did okay, but especially given that he had tried to end even the romance because of his mother's illness and death, I can almost understand it. He knew and let you know that her illness was so difficult that he would not be able to handle other emotionally intense things; we can criticize that (I mean it's not like you got the option of facing an intense situation or not!) but much as we would have liked him to be more mature and take responsibility or whatever, he had his limitations and for whatever little it's worth, he knew and stated them. I also imagine him to be someone without a lot of child-rearing friends, because the immensity of A New Person, their arrival and early years, is something that it took me some time and experience to truly understand. I lost a college acquaintance as a friend when I didn't make efforts to be there for her during pregnancy and birth and her son's early years. I'd just started grad school, so I was not doing well at keeping in regular touch with anyone for those three years (which felt like the blink of an eye). But when I began to reconnect with people, I sadly discovered that her life had changed completely, and I'd kinda missed the boat on being part of that new life. At the time i thought "she has a lot of support there; what can i add?" and "the baby is too young to even recognize me; i'll meet the little guy when he's a little bit more of a walking-talking kid." Obvious to me now how dumb that was. But he may not have fully understood that reconnecting later was more or less like never entirely connecting.
None of this is to deny that he had a responsibility and abandoned you to face a difficult, scary situation on your own. I would be as resentful as you are. I still think he is morally culpable for not finding a way to deal better. Particularly, how could he not have conversations with you when you first called him to tell him you were pregnant? So none of this serves to excuse him or deny that these indicate some immaturity and lack of capacity to take responsibility as an adult, which is worth considering as you decide how much to trust him. But I just wanted to talk a bit about the other pieces he had going on, particularly his mother's death and how massive that must have been, to the point that he knew early on that he couldn't handle other emotionally intense situations. He may have thought he couldn't leave her in case something happened; his time may have been consumed by doctors visits, chemo, surgeries, or other caretaking; and he may have felt like every day with her might be his last. And to cope, maybe he put this into the category of "I already told her [you] that I could not help, and I really can't" or even just "they will still be here after Mom is gone, and I can make it up to them then," not realizing he couldn't? Who knows, really. But a parent's death can be a really tough thing.
posted by salvia at 8:00 AM on September 7, 2010
So much has been said that I have little to add, but I did want to say that two of life's most intense experiences are having a child and losing a parent. I'm not saying you should have done more for him (definitely not), and I'm not excusing him exactly. I'm only saying that depending on his relationship with his mother, it really may have absorbed all his emotional energy. I have definitely seen people completely stop everything beyond surviving the 9-5 on top of the phone calls to hospice, the resolving old feelings, the probate, and the grieving. All of this does not make what he did okay, but especially given that he had tried to end even the romance because of his mother's illness and death, I can almost understand it. He knew and let you know that her illness was so difficult that he would not be able to handle other emotionally intense things; we can criticize that (I mean it's not like you got the option of facing an intense situation or not!) but much as we would have liked him to be more mature and take responsibility or whatever, he had his limitations and for whatever little it's worth, he knew and stated them. I also imagine him to be someone without a lot of child-rearing friends, because the immensity of A New Person, their arrival and early years, is something that it took me some time and experience to truly understand. I lost a college acquaintance as a friend when I didn't make efforts to be there for her during pregnancy and birth and her son's early years. I'd just started grad school, so I was not doing well at keeping in regular touch with anyone for those three years (which felt like the blink of an eye). But when I began to reconnect with people, I sadly discovered that her life had changed completely, and I'd kinda missed the boat on being part of that new life. At the time i thought "she has a lot of support there; what can i add?" and "the baby is too young to even recognize me; i'll meet the little guy when he's a little bit more of a walking-talking kid." Obvious to me now how dumb that was. But he may not have fully understood that reconnecting later was more or less like never entirely connecting.
None of this is to deny that he had a responsibility and abandoned you to face a difficult, scary situation on your own. I would be as resentful as you are. I still think he is morally culpable for not finding a way to deal better. Particularly, how could he not have conversations with you when you first called him to tell him you were pregnant? So none of this serves to excuse him or deny that these indicate some immaturity and lack of capacity to take responsibility as an adult, which is worth considering as you decide how much to trust him. But I just wanted to talk a bit about the other pieces he had going on, particularly his mother's death and how massive that must have been, to the point that he knew early on that he couldn't handle other emotionally intense situations. He may have thought he couldn't leave her in case something happened; his time may have been consumed by doctors visits, chemo, surgeries, or other caretaking; and he may have felt like every day with her might be his last. And to cope, maybe he put this into the category of "I already told her [you] that I could not help, and I really can't" or even just "they will still be here after Mom is gone, and I can make it up to them then," not realizing he couldn't? Who knows, really. But a parent's death can be a really tough thing.
posted by salvia at 8:00 AM on September 7, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
2) It is up to him to come to you. He wants the contact, you're the single mother (with little funds), and he is the non-financial parent. He bears the cost of plane tickets, accommodation, etc.
3) Even though you have negative feelings for him, I would not leave her with him unsupervised for the first few visits. You don't know what his feelings may be towards her, and how he'll act, after so many years. It's just best that you are there, so that you can answer any questions she has honestly and with the correct background information.
I would get the counselling, but I would also use this opportunity to point out to him (before the visit, and NOT within the child's hearing of course) that it would be nice if he could contribute something financially from time to time. There should be no take without give - she is his daughter after all. My father never contributed to my upbringing and it is something that still bugs me to this day (even though I have a fairly good relationship with him).
Best of luck, you deserve a big pat on the back for being so dedicated to your child through all this!
posted by humpy at 3:49 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]