Creative or English Literature masters?

August 12, 2010 10:25 PM

I'm currently finishing my last English Literature Honors paper and aim to continue academic study. My dilemma is that I am unsure of whether to apply for an English Literature MA or a Creative Writing MA.

Bit of background: I'm a published fiction writer, short stories mostly in small but respected genre magazines. I've been working on a genre novel for a few years that is now finally being edited. I've been involved in publishing for long enough to know without completely bullshitting myself that I have at least a fair chance of selling a novel, eventually. It is a goal I have been actively working towards for the better part of fifteen years.

In addition, I've discovered through the last four years of studying that I'd really like to continue researching and teaching in a tertiary academic environment. I've managed to maintain a first class Hons so far, so all good there; doing an MA via dissertation for Literature wouldn't be a problem, qualification-wise.

I've been in two minds lately about which MA I should pursue. Getting into the Creative MA is very competitive; they only take 10-15 students every year. The graduates from the programme also seem to write more literary fare as opposed to the genre-orientated nature of my own writing. But it is an internationally recognized programme that could be extremely helpful in my future writing endeavors, should I be accepted.


Alternatively, an MA in English Lit would obviously be a prerequisite (I assume) to getting into teaching English Lit. There is also the opportunity to upgrade to a Phd halfway through the MA for promising students.

My interests and passions are waging an unholy war inside my head! I think my most pressing concern is that, if I do the Creative MA, how does that affect my chances to teach literature? Am I wrong in assuming that getting a position teaching literature will be (all things concerned) easier than one teaching creative writing?

As to teaching high school – not something I'd want to do.

Thanks all

posted by New England Cultist to Education (17 answers total)

I am writing as if you are American. I'm not sure if you are.

Please read all past AskMe about grad school. The overarching theme: DON'T.

One must ask him/herself what exactly an MA will do for you professionally and financially.

There are no jobs. You'll spend years and go into great debt and then be qualified to do 1 thing: be a professor, yet there will be no place for you to do it at.

BUT:

There is no need to do an MA alone unless you did poorly as an undergrad.

MA programs are often cashcows. $80k of debt?

Go out in the world and try it for a few years before going back for grad school.
posted by k8t at 10:41 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I think you'd need a Phd in English lit to teach that at the college level, unless you were considering community college (I'm assuming you're in the US). But the creative writing MA is a terminal degree, right? So that would be your best shot at teaching creative writing.
posted by clockzero at 10:49 PM on August 12, 2010

Response by poster: I'm South African, for what it's worth. So English in terms of UK English..? Not sure what exactly you meant.

I'd rather not have a gap between Hons and MA. I hear what you're saying about the financial aspects. I'm studying in New Zealand, and my study fees are covered by a state-sponsored loan.

I'm not sure what you mean by "There is no need to do an MA alone unless you did poorly as an undergrad." In NZ, you cannot do an MA if you have poor undergrad skills. You have to maintain a first class or high second class Hons in order to do an MA (English Lit) via dissertation.
posted by New England Cultist at 10:50 PM on August 12, 2010

I would look at it this way: You seem to be on the path to at least a successful go at writing. You have been published and you have a better than decent chance of having a novel published one day. If you get the MA in Creative writing, will that help toward your goal and make you a better writer or will it be a resume enhancer that looks real good on a book jacket or gets you into the editor's office, but does not help you write or reach your goal? If it is more of the enhancer, skip it. If the English Lit MA will make you qualified to teach or help in a career, I would do that. You can continue to write in your "free time" (Ha!) and earn a living as a teacher. I suspect it will also help your writing skills in a tertiary way.

As for the cost, whatevs. I have yet to meet an English Lit or Creative Writing MA student who was in it for the money. If this was business school or law school or something else that lead to a very bottom line career, I would consider it. These two areas of study are not about what my return on investment is, they are about doing something you enjoy, about learning for learning sake and about being an educated and learned person.

Go for it. I will buy your novel if you post it to Projects when it is published. Also make sure to list in the IRL section your book signing tour dates.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:53 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

When you say "genre," what genre do you mean?

I have an MFA in creative writing (poetry), and while it was a good experience in a lot of ways, I think that if I'd known I'd be into writing YA sci-fi and fantasy now, it would have made more career sense to skip the MFA and try to go to Clarion.

The graduates from the programme also seem to write more literary fare as opposed to the genre-orientated nature of my own writing. But it is an internationally recognized programme that could be extremely helpful in my future writing endeavors, should I be accepted.

Definitely don't go into a creative writing program that isn't friendly towards the genre of your interest. The literary vs. genre war was ridiculous at my school, and a year and a bit after graduation, the whole issue continues to be a thorn in my side. Hell, just yesterday I saw that yet another grad of my program had started yet another lit magazine, and these were their submission guidelines: "Things we by no means publish: sci-fi/fantasy (we don’t want your swords or aliens epics), thrillers, mystery, detective, romance, or westerns (though we will admit to a certain preference to things with a hint of western flavor. Think more Deadwood less Eastwood" (sic).

I mean, icky, right? Much worse than I thought it would be before I went away to school. And the connections I made there in the "literary" world haven't really been of any help in terms of publishing, either.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:09 PM on August 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

Let's try this again: Neither of the options you present are viable for the following reasons:

1) there are no academic jobs for most graduates in the humanities these days (it's not about how good *you* are; there are systemic problems with higher education generally, leading to a backlog of qualified grads and a shrinking pool of stable positions).

2) the steep costs of attending graduate school in the humanities don't make sense, given #1 (loans aren't grants and have to be paid back at some point; even if they're backed by the government, it doesn't change the basic issue).

3) if you're as good as you claim, then you already know what you need to pursue a literary career (work habits, literary conventions of your chosen genre, basic familiarity with the literary canon, etc.). At this stage, you should know what you need to do; now it's just a matter of actually doing it. Hence the meaning of the comment,

"There is no need to do an MA alone unless you did poorly as an undergrad."

If you've been highly successful to this stage, there's no reason for further training.

Instead, if you really want to write, consider what sorts of careers (outside academia) would provide a stable income such that you could have the time and peace of mind to pursue your writing (whether creative or critical/scholarly). There's nothing worse for the writing habit than constant worry over living expenses or having to take work you'd otherwise to avoid because you have debts that are coming due. The present system, pursued the way most students currently do, is practically guaranteed to bring about at least one of these outcomes sooner or later....

Oh, FWIW, the style of your original post comes across a bit formal by the typical standards of this place; that and the details of the programs you described may have caused the inference above that you're from outside the U.S.
posted by 5Q7 at 11:30 PM on August 12, 2010

Response by poster: I mean, icky, right?

Uh, yeah. By genre I mean fantasy/sf/metaphysics/occult. I'm so over the whole genre vs. literary poo-pooing
posted by New England Cultist at 11:39 PM on August 12, 2010

Response by poster: JohnnyGunn nailed it with regards to the whole financial aspect - neither Lit nor Creative Writing is something you study in a bid to be financially successful.

I waited a long time to go to uni (I'm turning 35 this year) because I always felt that, if you're gonna spend that amount of money on something you had to get a return out of it. Which is true; only the return I get is not financial. Guidance on the basis of financial viability is not likely to affect my decision either way.

I study because I wish to broaden my perspectives on literature, make my writing better, and have a more encompassing view of language and storytelling as a whole. I write fiction because it's the one thing I feel I can do well.
posted by New England Cultist at 11:48 PM on August 12, 2010

Yeeeah . . . if your instinct is that the place won't be friendly to genre writing, I'd avoid. In my experience, that kind of environment means that you won't be able to take the work you really care about to workshop (or, if you can, you'll get a lot of perplexed comments about how you need to take out the magic stuff, or whatever) and you'll have to field a lot of casual prejudice in conversation, too. If you're eligible and coming to the US for a short time would be an option, look into applying to one of the Clarions, no matter what you do for graduate school. I've heard pretty glowing things about students' experiences there.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:50 PM on August 12, 2010

I don't have any data to draw on here, and if I did it wouldn't be RSA data. I feel that to be a good writer, you must understand what makes good writing, be able to dissect, analyze and critique good writing; great writers are great readers (though I know some deny it.). On the other hand, I know that to become a good writer you must write and write and write some more. So there are advantages to both schools.

So which is your passion? To read; to digest and possess the words of others? Or only to write, to create, and only use earlier works as muse food if at all? It's the program that will feed that passion that will do the most to make you a better writer, and it will make you a better teacher too (whether you wind up teaching Lit. or writing.).

Anyway, if I were you I'd ignore those that advice you to skip graduate school altogether. There is a lot, lot more to education than vocational training, and the number of toys you die with isn't the only way to judge a life. If you are the kind of person who should be in any graduate program (and your post makes it seem you may be), than that experience will be worth more than the careerist can imagine even if you don't write a best seller or become a professor.
posted by Some1 at 12:10 AM on August 13, 2010

Response by poster: Some1 - as we say in Afrikaans: "I'm going to grad school, finish and klaar!" :)
posted by New England Cultist at 12:12 AM on August 13, 2010

It's just not true there are no academic jobs. Please don't confuse America and its tenure system with the rest of the world.

As a working academic in an Arts Faculty, I would tend to regard CW Masters as somewhat more vanity than Eng Lit. in terms of job prospects.
posted by A189Nut at 3:52 AM on August 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Caveat about there being no jobs in English lit, etc. That said, if you want to teach at the university level and you are confident you'll publish that novel on your own, I'd go for the MA and not the MFA. Every CW professor I've studied with taught CW because they had already established themselves as an author on their own merits. Some of them had subsequently gone on for MFAs, some of them were already English Lit professors before they started publishing fiction, but they all had established their writing careers on their own. Think of it another way: you can get a CW teaching position if you have publications but no MFA, but I've yet to meet a CW professor with an MFA and no publications. My general sense of the MFA Creative Writing programs I've encountered was they were a good way to force yourself to write, meet a bunch of other writers, and establish a (very) few contacts in publishing. All of these can be accomplished on your own. Getting the MA, on the other hand, at least sets you up for a PhD, and more than likely, you can take CW courses while earning it anyway.
posted by ga$money at 6:54 AM on August 13, 2010

It sounds like your theory is that the Creative MA will help your writing, while the English Lit MA will help your teaching career, yes?

My observation is that Creative MAs do not help writing AT ALL. In fact, they usually make it worse. (And geez, look at all the people who do a fine job writing professionally without an MFA!)

However, a teaching career is a great fall-back position. And while you can become a published writer without a master's, I don't think you can become a teacher without one.

So I vote English Lit.
posted by ErikaB at 9:41 AM on August 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

I also vote English Lit, basically for the reasons ErikaB suggested: I've seen more than a few Creative MA's/MFA's who, while they said they had an interesting experience, didn't seem to achieve very much by going.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 10:04 AM on August 13, 2010

I study because I wish to broaden my perspectives on literature, make my writing better, and have a more encompassing view of language and storytelling as a whole. I write fiction because it's the one thing I feel I can do well.

MA Lit then, clearly. What more need be said?

I mean, if you feel and if the evidence is that you can already do the writing, and well, then what's the point of the MFA? Speaking as a reader, I tend to view the MFA thing on an author's bio as one more negative that the author will have to overcome if he wants my readership. (Which he probably doesn't, but you get my drift.)
posted by IndigoJones at 4:24 PM on August 13, 2010

Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I was 98% convinced that I should do the Lit MA; just had this annoying voice yammering in the back of my head.
posted by New England Cultist at 3:54 PM on August 14, 2010