Need a scooter, have some questions.
August 6, 2010 9:53 PM Subscribe
Looking for a scooter to save on gas, maintenance, and insurance - don't know anything about them. What do I need to know?
I have a thread on what kind of motorbike/scooter to get here:
http://ask.metafilter.com/160463/Cant-afford-a-car-need-a-motorbike-of-some-sort
and feel greatly overwhelmed with the task of finding a motorbike. In order to make things easier I’ve decided to narrow the search down to a scooter (something like a Vespa) as I’m doing my best to save money and could go for the better mileage.
Here are my questions/concerns regarding a scooter:
1.) What cc is high enough to safely handle a passenger?
1.a) What cc is high enough to safely handle a passenger on the freeway?
2.) I must be able to have side hard bags for school books/backpack and groceries, are all scooters able to mount side boxes and trunks?
2.a) What kind/make/model of hard bags should I get?
2.b) Where do I get these?
3.) What make/model of scooter should I be looking at/what are the top makes?
3.a) What price range would that recommendation be in?
4.) What else should I know?
Passenger and highway capable are things I will rarely make use of if ever, just curious to know beforehand.
This is for Phoenix AZ.
I have a thread on what kind of motorbike/scooter to get here:
http://ask.metafilter.com/160463/Cant-afford-a-car-need-a-motorbike-of-some-sort
and feel greatly overwhelmed with the task of finding a motorbike. In order to make things easier I’ve decided to narrow the search down to a scooter (something like a Vespa) as I’m doing my best to save money and could go for the better mileage.
Here are my questions/concerns regarding a scooter:
1.) What cc is high enough to safely handle a passenger?
1.a) What cc is high enough to safely handle a passenger on the freeway?
2.) I must be able to have side hard bags for school books/backpack and groceries, are all scooters able to mount side boxes and trunks?
2.a) What kind/make/model of hard bags should I get?
2.b) Where do I get these?
3.) What make/model of scooter should I be looking at/what are the top makes?
3.a) What price range would that recommendation be in?
4.) What else should I know?
Passenger and highway capable are things I will rarely make use of if ever, just curious to know beforehand.
This is for Phoenix AZ.
2.) I must be able to have side hard bags for school books/backpack and groceries, are all scooters able to mount side boxes and trunks?
No. Most (not quite all, but almost all, especially if you are creative) scooters can take a trunk of some sort. Many have some sort of underseat storage, too, though this varies in size from about the size of a VHS tape up to big enough for a couple of bags of groceries. Almost no scooters are set up for easy use of side boxes, though on some you could conceivably add soft saddle bags, the kind that drape over the seat, which aren't secure and don't work as well if you have a passenger.
You can buy a lot more car for your money than bike or scooter, and if you're doing it for purely budgetary reasons, consider a cheap small car.
This is very, very true. And if you already own a car, it is almost (but not quite) impossible to save money by owning a scooter and a car simultaneously. The money saving is going to be in having a scooter instead of a car. Scooters are fun, and use little gas -- but don't last as long as a car, don't work for long trips, and need surprisingly expensive maintenance every so often. For example, even pretty crappy car tires usually last for 40k to 80k miles; scooter tires might last for 3000 miles. On a small scooter you will be looking at a total engine rebuild by 10k to 20k miles; modern car engines are good for at least ten or twenty times that distance, if not more.
As for cc's for freeway, that'll depend on your size as FdG says, as well as what you consider adequate freeway performance. Do you need to keep up with the fast lane, or are you ok with barely making in the slow lane? Personally I'd consider 250cc the minimum for shortish freeway hops, and that's pretty minimal, assuming you aren't tiny and are going to be carrying stuff.
I'd suggest doing some reading on two-wheel-specific forums (eg here) and doing some careful (meaning not totally optimistic) budgeting. Remember to add in training, protective gear, maintenance, storage, and the hassle of some drunk dude pissing into your helmet while you are in the restaurant eating dinner, and the joy of finding your scooter on its side because some jerk couldn't parallel park. Remember how easy scooters are to steal (two guys can lift one into a van or truck, easy), and add that into your budgeting, too.
posted by Forktine at 11:13 PM on August 6, 2010
No. Most (not quite all, but almost all, especially if you are creative) scooters can take a trunk of some sort. Many have some sort of underseat storage, too, though this varies in size from about the size of a VHS tape up to big enough for a couple of bags of groceries. Almost no scooters are set up for easy use of side boxes, though on some you could conceivably add soft saddle bags, the kind that drape over the seat, which aren't secure and don't work as well if you have a passenger.
You can buy a lot more car for your money than bike or scooter, and if you're doing it for purely budgetary reasons, consider a cheap small car.
This is very, very true. And if you already own a car, it is almost (but not quite) impossible to save money by owning a scooter and a car simultaneously. The money saving is going to be in having a scooter instead of a car. Scooters are fun, and use little gas -- but don't last as long as a car, don't work for long trips, and need surprisingly expensive maintenance every so often. For example, even pretty crappy car tires usually last for 40k to 80k miles; scooter tires might last for 3000 miles. On a small scooter you will be looking at a total engine rebuild by 10k to 20k miles; modern car engines are good for at least ten or twenty times that distance, if not more.
As for cc's for freeway, that'll depend on your size as FdG says, as well as what you consider adequate freeway performance. Do you need to keep up with the fast lane, or are you ok with barely making in the slow lane? Personally I'd consider 250cc the minimum for shortish freeway hops, and that's pretty minimal, assuming you aren't tiny and are going to be carrying stuff.
I'd suggest doing some reading on two-wheel-specific forums (eg here) and doing some careful (meaning not totally optimistic) budgeting. Remember to add in training, protective gear, maintenance, storage, and the hassle of some drunk dude pissing into your helmet while you are in the restaurant eating dinner, and the joy of finding your scooter on its side because some jerk couldn't parallel park. Remember how easy scooters are to steal (two guys can lift one into a van or truck, easy), and add that into your budgeting, too.
posted by Forktine at 11:13 PM on August 6, 2010
A scooter sounds like a good solution for Phoenix, where you'll be able to ride it year-round.
For scooting around town, 125cc or more should do. For freeway travel, 125cc will get you up to 45mph, hopefully enough for your freeway, but no reserve power for going uphill or passing. With a passenger, I'd get 150cc or more. For your needs, I'd certainly steer clear of any 50cc models.
You have your choice of the known, reliable, old-time Japanese brands like Honda and Yamaha with extensive dealers to support you. You also have the newcomers to the market. I've read good reviews of those from Taiwan, such as SYM, which aren't as expensive as the Japanese. On the other hand, those made in China have had reputations for low prices, but problems with engineering, assembly, and reliability. (I'd be sure I had a good dealer close by before considering one of them.) The real Vespa is still made in Italy and looks great, but is a lot more expensive than any of the above. Finally, Google for reviews of any model you're considering -- you can learn a lot reading comments from owners.
A lot of scooters come with a luggage rack behind the seat which easily accommodates a hard carrier for books and groceries. Plus, most scooters have storage space under the seat, but the amount varies.
When you're looking at a scooter, note the size of the seat -- some are so small, you and your passenger would have to be pretty slim to fit.
For insurance, I recommend getting a quote from Progressive, either through a local agent or online.
I suggest visiting your local dealers to check out the Honda, Yamaha, and SYM models. That should get you started. Check out used scooters, too, both at dealers and from private parties. You could save a bundle with a scooter a year or two old.
Models and prices are online -- just Google.
posted by exphysicist345 at 11:43 PM on August 6, 2010
For scooting around town, 125cc or more should do. For freeway travel, 125cc will get you up to 45mph, hopefully enough for your freeway, but no reserve power for going uphill or passing. With a passenger, I'd get 150cc or more. For your needs, I'd certainly steer clear of any 50cc models.
You have your choice of the known, reliable, old-time Japanese brands like Honda and Yamaha with extensive dealers to support you. You also have the newcomers to the market. I've read good reviews of those from Taiwan, such as SYM, which aren't as expensive as the Japanese. On the other hand, those made in China have had reputations for low prices, but problems with engineering, assembly, and reliability. (I'd be sure I had a good dealer close by before considering one of them.) The real Vespa is still made in Italy and looks great, but is a lot more expensive than any of the above. Finally, Google for reviews of any model you're considering -- you can learn a lot reading comments from owners.
A lot of scooters come with a luggage rack behind the seat which easily accommodates a hard carrier for books and groceries. Plus, most scooters have storage space under the seat, but the amount varies.
When you're looking at a scooter, note the size of the seat -- some are so small, you and your passenger would have to be pretty slim to fit.
For insurance, I recommend getting a quote from Progressive, either through a local agent or online.
I suggest visiting your local dealers to check out the Honda, Yamaha, and SYM models. That should get you started. Check out used scooters, too, both at dealers and from private parties. You could save a bundle with a scooter a year or two old.
Models and prices are online -- just Google.
posted by exphysicist345 at 11:43 PM on August 6, 2010
The money saving is going to be in having a scooter instead of a car.
To expand on this: You will save money with a scooter only if you buy one really cheap (probably used rather than new, and in good shape rather than needing expensive work), you ride it long enough for the gas savings to become larger than the other costs (eg protective gear) which takes many thousands of miles, you can do your own work or have an amazing and affordable mechanic, you don't crash, and you get lucky on reliability and repair issues.
Seriously, things in the US are really biased towards cars; the structural issues (eg graduated licenses, parking restrictions, and expensive insurance) that make scooters such attractive options in places like Europe mostly don't apply here. Doing the math on a $2000 econobox car and a used $2000 250cc scooter is useful, though will depend a lot on your guesses about repairs and reliability issues.
My guess is that over the long term, it would be cheaper to operate a small motorcycle (as recently discussed on the blue) than a scooter of the same cc's because of reliability and efficiency issues, and because they are usually easier to find parts for and to repair.
posted by Forktine at 11:50 PM on August 6, 2010
To expand on this: You will save money with a scooter only if you buy one really cheap (probably used rather than new, and in good shape rather than needing expensive work), you ride it long enough for the gas savings to become larger than the other costs (eg protective gear) which takes many thousands of miles, you can do your own work or have an amazing and affordable mechanic, you don't crash, and you get lucky on reliability and repair issues.
Seriously, things in the US are really biased towards cars; the structural issues (eg graduated licenses, parking restrictions, and expensive insurance) that make scooters such attractive options in places like Europe mostly don't apply here. Doing the math on a $2000 econobox car and a used $2000 250cc scooter is useful, though will depend a lot on your guesses about repairs and reliability issues.
My guess is that over the long term, it would be cheaper to operate a small motorcycle (as recently discussed on the blue) than a scooter of the same cc's because of reliability and efficiency issues, and because they are usually easier to find parts for and to repair.
posted by Forktine at 11:50 PM on August 6, 2010
If you must have a scooter, the smallest one I'd consider given your desires, is maybe a used Honda 250 Helix, Reflex or Big Ruckus if you could find one. Absolutely nothing smaller. The upside is that these will suffice for freeway or occasional passengers and are generally very reliable. The downside is that they can be surprisingly spendy, even used, and two wheeled anythings seem to have lots of nickle and dime costs that can be discouraging. As a practical matter, it's really hard to beat a small automobile as a means of transportation. Especially if it's going to be your only means of powered transportation.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:18 AM on August 7, 2010
posted by 2N2222 at 12:18 AM on August 7, 2010
I've only owned motorcycles, none smaller than 400CC, so I've got no no scooter experience to relate. But, I agree with several others above that a cheap car is likely to provide more utility per dollar.
Because of the small wheels, I wouldn't ride any scooter on the freeway unless the roads in your area are in really excellent condition (which they may well be, since you don't have the freeze/thaw cycle). In my northern Midwest area, potholes big enough to swallow a scooter tire are common.
I started riding motorcycles in the late 1980's. At the time, it was easy to find small 1970's Honda cycles in any newspaper's classifieds. I was regularly amazed to find that a ~15 year-old bike would have less than a thousand miles on the odometer, and heard many variations on a story that went, "Yeah, I bought this during the gas crunch, thinking I was going to save money. Then I discovered that I didn't like riding in the rain / it felt too dangerous / my girlfriend wouldn't ride with me / I couldn't carry anything / etc."
posted by jon1270 at 2:55 AM on August 7, 2010
Because of the small wheels, I wouldn't ride any scooter on the freeway unless the roads in your area are in really excellent condition (which they may well be, since you don't have the freeze/thaw cycle). In my northern Midwest area, potholes big enough to swallow a scooter tire are common.
I started riding motorcycles in the late 1980's. At the time, it was easy to find small 1970's Honda cycles in any newspaper's classifieds. I was regularly amazed to find that a ~15 year-old bike would have less than a thousand miles on the odometer, and heard many variations on a story that went, "Yeah, I bought this during the gas crunch, thinking I was going to save money. Then I discovered that I didn't like riding in the rain / it felt too dangerous / my girlfriend wouldn't ride with me / I couldn't carry anything / etc."
posted by jon1270 at 2:55 AM on August 7, 2010
With two skinny people and a low speed limit around the suburbs you could get away with it on a very small scooter, a 75 or a 125, but I know people who push the limits of 250cc scooters all by themselves.
My 125cc motorbike has a top speed of 55 mph when the wind's blowing in the right direction. Other bikes with the same engine capacity claim speeds up to 75 mph. With a passenger your speed will be lower still.
I find this speed sufficient for getting around the city and journeys within 30 miles or so; I don't use it for anything longer-distance than that.
You can buy a lot more car for your money than bike or scooter, and if you're doing it for purely budgetary reasons, consider a cheap small car. [...] Two wheeled vehicles use less fuel, but they do need more frequent servicing, the insurance isn't actually that much cheaper, and it's a pain to ride them in really filthy weather. You will end up having to get the bus or bum lifts when it's unsafe to ride.
I guess insurance must be pretty different my country, then, because I brought my (7-previous-owner) motorbike, safety kit, and insurance, and it cost less than just the insurance on the cheapest-to-insure car I could find.
That said, cars can carry more stuff, are better in wet weather, can transport passengers without needing extra equipment, and don't leave you carrying a helmet everywhere.
posted by Mike1024 at 3:28 AM on August 7, 2010
My 125cc motorbike has a top speed of 55 mph when the wind's blowing in the right direction. Other bikes with the same engine capacity claim speeds up to 75 mph. With a passenger your speed will be lower still.
I find this speed sufficient for getting around the city and journeys within 30 miles or so; I don't use it for anything longer-distance than that.
You can buy a lot more car for your money than bike or scooter, and if you're doing it for purely budgetary reasons, consider a cheap small car. [...] Two wheeled vehicles use less fuel, but they do need more frequent servicing, the insurance isn't actually that much cheaper, and it's a pain to ride them in really filthy weather. You will end up having to get the bus or bum lifts when it's unsafe to ride.
I guess insurance must be pretty different my country, then, because I brought my (7-previous-owner) motorbike, safety kit, and insurance, and it cost less than just the insurance on the cheapest-to-insure car I could find.
That said, cars can carry more stuff, are better in wet weather, can transport passengers without needing extra equipment, and don't leave you carrying a helmet everywhere.
posted by Mike1024 at 3:28 AM on August 7, 2010
I researched scooters for economy a few years ago in Massachusetts and found that scooters are classified to be very limited on their power. This is intentional. In MA, to drive a scooter you need a license but are not required to register it or get insurance. So there is no way in flipping hell that they're going to go much faster than a kid can get a bike going. 20 MPH is the limit. In MA they can't be driven at night.
That also means no freeway. There are minimum speed requirements for going on the highway and most highways post restrictions. If it says no bikes, it means no scooters.
Arizona is going to be different, of course, but I would be highly surprised if there aren't similar restrictions.
posted by plinth at 3:51 AM on August 7, 2010
That also means no freeway. There are minimum speed requirements for going on the highway and most highways post restrictions. If it says no bikes, it means no scooters.
Arizona is going to be different, of course, but I would be highly surprised if there aren't similar restrictions.
posted by plinth at 3:51 AM on August 7, 2010
I guess insurance must be pretty different my country, then, because I brought my (7-previous-owner) motorbike, safety kit, and insurance, and it cost less than just the insurance on the cheapest-to-insure car I could find.
Oh, definitely insurance on a scooter (assuming that you even live in a state where it is mandatory to buy insurance for scooters and motorcycles -- it's not mandatory everywhere, and many people take the gamble to opt out) is cheaper than for a car, but not by an order of magnitude. Again, this is an example of how things in the US lack the structural push towards scooters/motorcycles you see in some other countries. Cars just aren't expensive to own here.
Arizona is going to be different, of course, but I would be highly surprised if there aren't similar restrictions.
"Scooter" is a pretty generic term, used for most anything from 49cc up to over 500cc. Some states have what you are describing -- a special, mostly unregulated licensing class for restricted 49cc machines, sometimes calling them "mopeds" or "scooters" -- but not all, and there are many, many scooters for sale that don't meet those criteria. Hell, some places don't even require you to have a drivers license to ride a 49cc scooter, which makes them very attractive for those convicted of a DUI.
posted by Forktine at 6:08 AM on August 7, 2010
Oh, definitely insurance on a scooter (assuming that you even live in a state where it is mandatory to buy insurance for scooters and motorcycles -- it's not mandatory everywhere, and many people take the gamble to opt out) is cheaper than for a car, but not by an order of magnitude. Again, this is an example of how things in the US lack the structural push towards scooters/motorcycles you see in some other countries. Cars just aren't expensive to own here.
Arizona is going to be different, of course, but I would be highly surprised if there aren't similar restrictions.
"Scooter" is a pretty generic term, used for most anything from 49cc up to over 500cc. Some states have what you are describing -- a special, mostly unregulated licensing class for restricted 49cc machines, sometimes calling them "mopeds" or "scooters" -- but not all, and there are many, many scooters for sale that don't meet those criteria. Hell, some places don't even require you to have a drivers license to ride a 49cc scooter, which makes them very attractive for those convicted of a DUI.
posted by Forktine at 6:08 AM on August 7, 2010
I had a Honda Elite (80cc) in Tucson for several years and loved it. You can park in all sorts of places cars can't get to and police wouldn't even think of giving you a ticket. I had an enormous backpack (literally about 40 pounds; this was during law school), and I didn't want that weight on my already tall frame throwing me off balance. What I did was to take off my pack and simply keep it on the floorboards in front of me, and using the fold-down foot rests on the side instead of keeping my feet on the "floor". It was MUCH more stable, and I never had a problem with it sliding off to the side or anything.
But if you need storage, freeway access, and the occasional passenger, you should be looking at a touring motorcycle, not a scooter.
posted by holterbarbour at 7:57 AM on August 7, 2010
But if you need storage, freeway access, and the occasional passenger, you should be looking at a touring motorcycle, not a scooter.
posted by holterbarbour at 7:57 AM on August 7, 2010
I have motorcycling for years in Arizona (mostly northern AZ-but several extended trips to Tucson and Phoenix). You are going to get killed on any kind of scooter less than 250cc on the interstate. Drivers are aggressive and don't really look at for smaller vehicles at all, as well as the douchebag in the jacked up truck that will fuck with you because he can. You might be ok on surface streets with a small scooter, but still...
You need a machine that can keep up the traffic flow so you are the one deciding who is around you in traffic, and as you have probably noticed the freeways are often moving at 80 mph there, as well as the small two stroke scooter engines are not going to do well in 110+ deg heat there at all. I would recommend either a Yamaha XT225 or a Kawasaki KLR250. They are small dual purpose bikes that you can mount bags on (hard or soft-soft is easier and way cheaper but not as secure). They are not terribly expensive new from the dealer (about 3k) and you can sometimes find used ones for less (most people who buy these seem to hold on to them). One of the bigger scooters would probably work but they will probably cost more than the above bikes, and the bikes are more maneuverable, easier to work on and get just as good of mileage. Good gear will cost the same in either case, and i bet insurance is about the same (i pay 100 a year for Kawasaki KLR650-liability only). The only practical adavantage a bike has over a car is ease of parking and cost of parking. The last is why i got a motorcycle going to college in Flagstaff-parking for a year was 30 as opposed to 500 for car and I got much better spaces. As well as I just like riding motorcycles.
If you can't do the maintenance yourself you can't afford a motorcycle though, they require a lot more work than even an old beater car. This is in daily stuff-oil needs to be changed at no more than 2k (due to a combined sump motor/transmission), chains must be lubed, valves need adjusting, carbs need tuning, tires must be changed at 3-5k, and on and on. It is not hard to do these things and a good maintenance book will get you through it, but if you are not good with machinery or don't have someplace you can do it, it really is expensive. I love riding motorcycles but it is not just a smaller cheaper car.
You might look in to the Can-Am spyders-they are a three wheel teardrop trike design that might work better as a car substitute than a scooter will, although i think the are not real cheap.
posted by bartonlong at 9:22 AM on August 7, 2010
You need a machine that can keep up the traffic flow so you are the one deciding who is around you in traffic, and as you have probably noticed the freeways are often moving at 80 mph there, as well as the small two stroke scooter engines are not going to do well in 110+ deg heat there at all. I would recommend either a Yamaha XT225 or a Kawasaki KLR250. They are small dual purpose bikes that you can mount bags on (hard or soft-soft is easier and way cheaper but not as secure). They are not terribly expensive new from the dealer (about 3k) and you can sometimes find used ones for less (most people who buy these seem to hold on to them). One of the bigger scooters would probably work but they will probably cost more than the above bikes, and the bikes are more maneuverable, easier to work on and get just as good of mileage. Good gear will cost the same in either case, and i bet insurance is about the same (i pay 100 a year for Kawasaki KLR650-liability only). The only practical adavantage a bike has over a car is ease of parking and cost of parking. The last is why i got a motorcycle going to college in Flagstaff-parking for a year was 30 as opposed to 500 for car and I got much better spaces. As well as I just like riding motorcycles.
If you can't do the maintenance yourself you can't afford a motorcycle though, they require a lot more work than even an old beater car. This is in daily stuff-oil needs to be changed at no more than 2k (due to a combined sump motor/transmission), chains must be lubed, valves need adjusting, carbs need tuning, tires must be changed at 3-5k, and on and on. It is not hard to do these things and a good maintenance book will get you through it, but if you are not good with machinery or don't have someplace you can do it, it really is expensive. I love riding motorcycles but it is not just a smaller cheaper car.
You might look in to the Can-Am spyders-they are a three wheel teardrop trike design that might work better as a car substitute than a scooter will, although i think the are not real cheap.
posted by bartonlong at 9:22 AM on August 7, 2010
I used to have a 49cc Honda back when I was in 9th grade. My state required no licensing, no registration, no nothing. Buy you a scooter, drive you a scooter. I weighed nearly 150 pounds at the time and it wasn't really an issue except on long steep hills. It only went 35mph on flat ground, but that was fast enough. It would have gone faster (on flat or nearly flat ground) if the gearing had been different.
I keep thinking I might buy a nice 100cc from the shop down the street, but my SO would be pissed. She already doesn't like me to ride my bicycle on busy streets, so she presumes I would die on a scooter or motorcycle.
My sister's boyfriend at the time had an older 75cc that had built in storage compartments on either side behind the seat. Not like panniers, but like a glove box in a car. Between that and the helmet storage under the seat, you could actually haul a decent amount of stuff. Law enforcement was such in the area that nobody cared that it was a 75 and thus should have been considered a motorcycle.
posted by wierdo at 1:43 PM on August 7, 2010
I keep thinking I might buy a nice 100cc from the shop down the street, but my SO would be pissed. She already doesn't like me to ride my bicycle on busy streets, so she presumes I would die on a scooter or motorcycle.
My sister's boyfriend at the time had an older 75cc that had built in storage compartments on either side behind the seat. Not like panniers, but like a glove box in a car. Between that and the helmet storage under the seat, you could actually haul a decent amount of stuff. Law enforcement was such in the area that nobody cared that it was a 75 and thus should have been considered a motorcycle.
posted by wierdo at 1:43 PM on August 7, 2010
I've owned and ridden a bunch of scooters over the past 25ish years. The first one I owned was a 49cc Honda Spree. It's good for one person in a city that's relatively flat. If you have any significant/steep hills in your commute (ie Pittsburgh), go bigger. 49cc scooters top out around 30-35mph.
The next step up is 80cc - 125cc. I've had the Honda Elite (80cc) and the Yamaha Riva (125cc). Both were terrific. I also had a Honda Passport (around 110cc, I think). All were fun rides. I was able to carry passengers on my Elite and Riva on city streets where the speed limit is 30mph.
I had a Honda Reflex for a few years. At that size, they're less "scooter" and more two-wheeled boat. Very big, heavier (I think the Reflex was about 350lbs), and more ponderous in handling. Then again, if you're looking for a more 'luxurious' ride, a maxi-scooter (the Reflex is at the bottom end of that scale) is the trick.
I sold my Reflex a few years ago and got a vintage Vespa. Older Vespas are mostly 150cc (there are some smaller and larger) and two-stroke, which means oil is mixed with the gas, either by you or the engine, depending on its age. Stay away from Vespas until you've had some experience with scooters. Most older Vespas are manual and most modern scooters are fully-automatic (twist-n-go). For the price of a modern Vespa, you could just buy a car.
As others have noted, you can get trunks for most scooters. Some are particularly well suited to saddlebags. Check the Scooterworks website for some ideas about what accessories are available. They are also Genuine Scooters, so take a look at their Buddy series. The Stella is based on a vintage Vespa, so the stay-away rule applies.
You may also want to look into the Symba SYM. It's based on the old Honda Passport and it is very well set up for saddlebags. You could probably get a nice set of bike panniers that you could adapt to a SYM.
I wouldn't take any scooter on the highway.
posted by jdfan at 10:12 AM on August 8, 2010
The next step up is 80cc - 125cc. I've had the Honda Elite (80cc) and the Yamaha Riva (125cc). Both were terrific. I also had a Honda Passport (around 110cc, I think). All were fun rides. I was able to carry passengers on my Elite and Riva on city streets where the speed limit is 30mph.
I had a Honda Reflex for a few years. At that size, they're less "scooter" and more two-wheeled boat. Very big, heavier (I think the Reflex was about 350lbs), and more ponderous in handling. Then again, if you're looking for a more 'luxurious' ride, a maxi-scooter (the Reflex is at the bottom end of that scale) is the trick.
I sold my Reflex a few years ago and got a vintage Vespa. Older Vespas are mostly 150cc (there are some smaller and larger) and two-stroke, which means oil is mixed with the gas, either by you or the engine, depending on its age. Stay away from Vespas until you've had some experience with scooters. Most older Vespas are manual and most modern scooters are fully-automatic (twist-n-go). For the price of a modern Vespa, you could just buy a car.
As others have noted, you can get trunks for most scooters. Some are particularly well suited to saddlebags. Check the Scooterworks website for some ideas about what accessories are available. They are also Genuine Scooters, so take a look at their Buddy series. The Stella is based on a vintage Vespa, so the stay-away rule applies.
You may also want to look into the Symba SYM. It's based on the old Honda Passport and it is very well set up for saddlebags. You could probably get a nice set of bike panniers that you could adapt to a SYM.
I wouldn't take any scooter on the highway.
posted by jdfan at 10:12 AM on August 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
With two skinny people and a low speed limit around the suburbs you could get away with it on a very small scooter, a 75 or a 125, but I know people who push the limits of 250cc scooters all by themselves. I'd be very wary of driving a scooter of any size on a multi-lane freeway, personally: for comparison I tip the scales at about 70 kilos with a jacket, boots, gloves, riding pants and helmet. If you're skinny like I am, you've got lots of options. If you're carrying more weight, you need to think about a bigger scooter or small motorcycle. When you're thinking about carrying things; add the weight of the groceries to your own weight. You can carry a lot less in safety on a bike than you think.
As to hard cases and panniers: are you asking whether you need them, or stating that you do? It's unclear. Yes, they're useful but for small grocery shopping you can get away with a backpack too. If you want them, the dealer you get your scooter from will certainly try to sell them to you as accessories. There are dozens of different brands of hard cases which can be fit to bikes and scooters---unless you're buying an unusual brand of scooter you should count on being able to fit a case on the back. You can buy a lot more car for your money than bike or scooter, and if you're doing it for purely budgetary reasons, consider a cheap small car. Yes, you really need to budget for protective gear, even for scooter riding, and you should factor several hundred dollars for a helmet, a jacket, gloves, and boots at the minimum into your calculations. The asphalt doesn't care what you ride. Two wheeled vehicles use less fuel, but they do need more frequent servicing, the insurance isn't actually that much cheaper, and it's a pain to ride them in really filthy weather. You will end up having to get the bus or bum lifts when it's unsafe to ride.
On the other hand they're a hell of a lot of fun. I'm about to go for a ride right now actually.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:22 PM on August 6, 2010 [3 favorites]