Two young midwest artists trying to move! Portland VS Seattle
July 27, 2010 3:54 PM
Boyfriend and I have been in the midwest our whole lives and are looking to make a move to the Pacific Northwest at the end of October. Our lease is up and we will be out of work one way or another- so we might as well move then. Background info- we are both graduated artists in our early 20s, love music, nature, being outdoors and a part of our community. We are mainly looking for an active, younger, art-scene. We both want to continue to practice our art, and want a community to support that, and to keep us motivated. We are going out to visit both cities at the end of August (27th to 31st), and will make another trip later to find an apartment- and then move Oct 31st.
Any oppinions on which seems like a better fit, Portland VS Seattle, would be really appreciated. Any also any tips on neighborhoods to look for that would be a good match (Budget wise, also, we are looking for a 2 or 3 bedroom for around $900/mo). He has a car, but i bike everywhere... love being close to lots of nature 'activities'... I don't know what else!
As far as looking for apartments- do most people use craigslist- or is there a different publication to find listings? Can anyone recommend an apartment finding agency (with a real person that helps you find a place?)
This will be our FIRST time ever going out there so anything at all would be useful!
ALSO i know someone is going to say Portland's job market is terrible- but it is here in Chicago too, and like i said- i'm going to be out of a job anyways- so i'm prepared for the situation.
thanks!
Any oppinions on which seems like a better fit, Portland VS Seattle, would be really appreciated. Any also any tips on neighborhoods to look for that would be a good match (Budget wise, also, we are looking for a 2 or 3 bedroom for around $900/mo). He has a car, but i bike everywhere... love being close to lots of nature 'activities'... I don't know what else!
As far as looking for apartments- do most people use craigslist- or is there a different publication to find listings? Can anyone recommend an apartment finding agency (with a real person that helps you find a place?)
This will be our FIRST time ever going out there so anything at all would be useful!
ALSO i know someone is going to say Portland's job market is terrible- but it is here in Chicago too, and like i said- i'm going to be out of a job anyways- so i'm prepared for the situation.
thanks!
I lived in Seattle for 7 years, and have now lived in Portland for 3. Portland seems younger and artier to me, and is definitely more bikeable. And yeah, the job market is terrible -- seems to be slightly worse in Portland than in Seattle.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 4:10 PM on July 27, 2010
posted by rabbitrabbit at 4:10 PM on July 27, 2010
TBH That sounds more like Portland that you want there, but that could just be my Seattlite envy of the hipper, younger artsy thing it's got going on there where we have a bunch of aging hippy yuppies.
posted by Artw at 4:10 PM on July 27, 2010
posted by Artw at 4:10 PM on July 27, 2010
Portland. Very bike-friendly. Decent public transportation. Lots of pedestrians. Also cheaper living standards than Seattle. Worse job market. OR has no sales tax but WA has no income tax. Portland is smaller with pretty well-defined neighborhoods, so you'll probably find community bonding is easier. Craigslist is fine for rental, but you should know what you're doing in terms of leaving a paper trail, researching sites, etc.
posted by Ky at 4:18 PM on July 27, 2010
posted by Ky at 4:18 PM on July 27, 2010
It will probably be difficult to find an apartment of that size in your price range in Seattle, at least without living uncomfortably far from the city.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:19 PM on July 27, 2010
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:19 PM on July 27, 2010
Start checking the Seattle Times classified ads and Craigslist for apartments now. You will have difficulty finding a 1BR for $900/month inside the Seattle city limits.
But of course, apartments in Portland are cheap because the unemployment rate in Oregon is 11% and rising.
posted by ErikaB at 4:21 PM on July 27, 2010
But of course, apartments in Portland are cheap because the unemployment rate in Oregon is 11% and rising.
posted by ErikaB at 4:21 PM on July 27, 2010
If you do end up choosing Seattle, Capitol Hill is definitely a place to consider. It's where all the young artsy alt people hang. There's also a monthly art walk! And a nice new big art store on Broadway and Pine.
Actually, I could totally see you living in Fremont too. It's more hippy there whereas cap hill is more hipster. My suggestion is looking at the wikipedia pages. The cap hill entry says "With a rich and diverse history, Capitol Hill has been a bastion of arts and culture." and apparently Fremont is sometimes referred to as ""The Artists' Republic of Fremont" ... Fremont also has lots and lots of public art.
Oh and since you mention biking, Fremont is part of the Burke Gilman trail whereas cap hill is, well, a hill ... and a bitch to bike up.
Also, as a girl who grew up in Wisconsin and thought Madison was like the best city evar for a long time I think you'll both love it in the PNW.
posted by kthxbi at 4:25 PM on July 27, 2010
Actually, I could totally see you living in Fremont too. It's more hippy there whereas cap hill is more hipster. My suggestion is looking at the wikipedia pages. The cap hill entry says "With a rich and diverse history, Capitol Hill has been a bastion of arts and culture." and apparently Fremont is sometimes referred to as ""The Artists' Republic of Fremont" ... Fremont also has lots and lots of public art.
Oh and since you mention biking, Fremont is part of the Burke Gilman trail whereas cap hill is, well, a hill ... and a bitch to bike up.
Also, as a girl who grew up in Wisconsin and thought Madison was like the best city evar for a long time I think you'll both love it in the PNW.
posted by kthxbi at 4:25 PM on July 27, 2010
Oh and if you're moving at the end of October don't start looking for places in Seattle until September unless you want to pay rent from now until then to keep the place. Landlords will laugh at you if you tell them you want a place starting in October if you look now. The turnover is just that fast and tenants only have to give something like 2 weeks notice before they move out as long as they've completed their year lease already. (I just moved here in June and we didn't bother looking for a place to live until we actually got here, and then ended up finding a place within a week.)
posted by kthxbi at 4:27 PM on July 27, 2010
posted by kthxbi at 4:27 PM on July 27, 2010
I don't know anything about the arty scene, but you will not find a 3 bedroom apartment in Seattle for $900. You should be able to find an acceptable 2 bedroom for $1000, though--check West Seattle, Central District/Beacon Hill, and Northgate-ish. Apartments move fast, so start monitoring Craigslist as soon as possible. The official neighborhood map is here. You can take a look at the DoT bike map here. There are hills everywhere, so biking might not be terribly fun at first.
posted by esoterrica at 4:32 PM on July 27, 2010
posted by esoterrica at 4:32 PM on July 27, 2010
apparently Fremont is sometimes referred to as ""The Artists' Republic of Fremont" .
Fremont is not the Fremont of 5 years ago. Now it would be the Yuppies Republic of Excesive Condos.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on July 27, 2010
Fremont is not the Fremont of 5 years ago. Now it would be the Yuppies Republic of Excesive Condos.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on July 27, 2010
I live in Seattle, but grew up in Chicago and moved away shortly after college. I am also fairly connected to the art "scene" here. Some thoughts for your consideration.
My guess is that when you visit both cities on your first trip, you will find Portland more attractive. It's a wonderful city in all ways, and hard not to fall in love with especially with just a couple of days to look around. But therein lies the tricky part. With only a couple days to spend in each city, you are likely to encounter only the most obvious parts of each. Everything that you are likely to encounter in Portland will be fantastic. It's hip (although nearly preciously so), the neighborhoods are walkable and bolstered by a great transit system, and there is a thriving music and coffee house scene.
But you are artists. New artists. As you know, this is a really hard life if you are serious about your art. A community that supports artists has other artists, sure, but most importantly it has ways to support the artist's career. It has a broad variety of living situations to accommodate constantly changing living/studio necessities. It has a constant stream of decent paying, but flexible service jobs...so you can spend your time making ART, not working to pay your rent. It takes forever to get representation, therefore it has a large, steady art gallery system. Most importantly, it will need to have people that actually buy art. In all these areas...size matters. It is no coincidence that serious artists end up on the fringes of larger, cosmopolitan cities. Neither Seattle nor Portland are particularly cosmopolitan, and that's ok...you need time to make your art and grow in your career as an artist. But this time will be very important for creating your professional connections as well as your artist-friend connections.
For these reasons, I would suggest you look hard at Seattle as the city that may perhaps best foster your long-term lives as artists. Even though everything you will see about Portland will be appealing to you now, Seattle is simply bigger, has more options, has more "fringe" that you can operate on. In these ways, it may be a better place to settle for a new artists. Seattle is also a fantastic city. It just isn't as "distilled" as nicely as Portland is. You will have to spend more time finding the things that are of particular interest to you.
Both cities are great cities. I think it's possible/probable that Seattle has more tools to offer that will allow you to do your art, and eventually find professional support and success as well. Of course the only thing that ultimately matters is your devotion to your art. If you have that, either city will work. Good luck!
posted by nickjadlowe at 4:46 PM on July 27, 2010
My guess is that when you visit both cities on your first trip, you will find Portland more attractive. It's a wonderful city in all ways, and hard not to fall in love with especially with just a couple of days to look around. But therein lies the tricky part. With only a couple days to spend in each city, you are likely to encounter only the most obvious parts of each. Everything that you are likely to encounter in Portland will be fantastic. It's hip (although nearly preciously so), the neighborhoods are walkable and bolstered by a great transit system, and there is a thriving music and coffee house scene.
But you are artists. New artists. As you know, this is a really hard life if you are serious about your art. A community that supports artists has other artists, sure, but most importantly it has ways to support the artist's career. It has a broad variety of living situations to accommodate constantly changing living/studio necessities. It has a constant stream of decent paying, but flexible service jobs...so you can spend your time making ART, not working to pay your rent. It takes forever to get representation, therefore it has a large, steady art gallery system. Most importantly, it will need to have people that actually buy art. In all these areas...size matters. It is no coincidence that serious artists end up on the fringes of larger, cosmopolitan cities. Neither Seattle nor Portland are particularly cosmopolitan, and that's ok...you need time to make your art and grow in your career as an artist. But this time will be very important for creating your professional connections as well as your artist-friend connections.
For these reasons, I would suggest you look hard at Seattle as the city that may perhaps best foster your long-term lives as artists. Even though everything you will see about Portland will be appealing to you now, Seattle is simply bigger, has more options, has more "fringe" that you can operate on. In these ways, it may be a better place to settle for a new artists. Seattle is also a fantastic city. It just isn't as "distilled" as nicely as Portland is. You will have to spend more time finding the things that are of particular interest to you.
Both cities are great cities. I think it's possible/probable that Seattle has more tools to offer that will allow you to do your art, and eventually find professional support and success as well. Of course the only thing that ultimately matters is your devotion to your art. If you have that, either city will work. Good luck!
posted by nickjadlowe at 4:46 PM on July 27, 2010
Unless you're committed to an urban area, I wonder why you're not considering Olympia or Bellingham (perhaps especially Oly)? Olympia's inexpensive, the birthplace of labels like Kill Rock Stars and artists like Miranda July and Nikki McClure and businesses like buyolympia.com, has amazing trails and waterfronts, and it's easy to get to Seattle OR Portland for bigger shows/events/the museums. The community is supportive and welcoming and visual artists have an easier time breaking into local galleries for shows. Bellingham's scene is newer and rougher, but Bellingham's beautiful and between Seattle and Vancouver.
I think Seattle and Portland's scenes are wonderful and world class, please don't misunderstand, but if you're young and still feeling out the boundaries of your art and love community, I think it's worth to explore a couple of these midsize PNW cities that have lots of "start it up" potential and don't burn through cash like Seattle and PDX.
Good luck! You'll meet lots of midwest ex-pats and it will be awesome.
posted by rumposinc at 4:47 PM on July 27, 2010
I think Seattle and Portland's scenes are wonderful and world class, please don't misunderstand, but if you're young and still feeling out the boundaries of your art and love community, I think it's worth to explore a couple of these midsize PNW cities that have lots of "start it up" potential and don't burn through cash like Seattle and PDX.
Good luck! You'll meet lots of midwest ex-pats and it will be awesome.
posted by rumposinc at 4:47 PM on July 27, 2010
Not to dissuade you, but someone should inject some reality into the answers here. This is not a good time of the year to visit and decide if you want to live in Portland. You're visiting during the "perfect" time of the year so your impression will be skewed. Are you sure you can handle all of the rainy, drizzle, overcast dreary weather that occurs 90% of the time from October-May? It is no joke. I don't get seasonal depression or anything, I was just super annoyed by it. Like, good luck going out and doing anything 7-8 months of the year unless you really like being wet and hate sunshine. I lived in Burlington, VT for a year and dealing with the snow was nothing compared to the constant rain and grey skies.
Also, good luck getting a job in Portland. This is no joke either. Portland is a sea of unemployed or underemployed artists. Even people with degrees and years of experience have a hard time getting a decent job there. Look at the plenty of previous threads here on Ask MeFi. I wouldn't move there without a job lined up -- you may find yourself moving back to the midwest sooner than later. You say you're prepared for the situation... I'm assuming this means you have at least $10,000 in the bank and are ready to spend it on living expenses until you find a job? Otherwise you are probably setting yourself up for failure.
Just trying to be realistic here. I don't think you can equate the job market in Chicago to Portland. I'm certain that Portland is much, much worse because TONS of young, hip, artsy, whatever people try to move there all the time. The job market is saturated with plenty of people who have the exact same skills as you.
Good luck, though. I hope you make it work.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 4:51 PM on July 27, 2010
Also, good luck getting a job in Portland. This is no joke either. Portland is a sea of unemployed or underemployed artists. Even people with degrees and years of experience have a hard time getting a decent job there. Look at the plenty of previous threads here on Ask MeFi. I wouldn't move there without a job lined up -- you may find yourself moving back to the midwest sooner than later. You say you're prepared for the situation... I'm assuming this means you have at least $10,000 in the bank and are ready to spend it on living expenses until you find a job? Otherwise you are probably setting yourself up for failure.
Just trying to be realistic here. I don't think you can equate the job market in Chicago to Portland. I'm certain that Portland is much, much worse because TONS of young, hip, artsy, whatever people try to move there all the time. The job market is saturated with plenty of people who have the exact same skills as you.
Good luck, though. I hope you make it work.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 4:51 PM on July 27, 2010
I lived in Seattle for 20 years, Portland for the last 12. Rabbitrabbit has it. Portland seems to be a better fit for you. Great art scene, younger, interesting neighborhoods abound. The rents are cheaper, too.
And you've gotta love a city who's motto is "Keep Portland Weird"
posted by Acacia at 4:53 PM on July 27, 2010
And you've gotta love a city who's motto is "Keep Portland Weird"
posted by Acacia at 4:53 PM on July 27, 2010
There's no way you'll be able to find a sub-$1,000 2-3 bedroom apartment in Seattle unless you go out to the suburbs, far from any "activities" that you may be referring to. Are you hoping to bike places year-round? Do you enjoy biking in the cold and rain? Don't plan on being able to do so unless whatever job you find provides a locker room and showers.
Seattle's job market right now is really, really bad. Like, 100+ overeducated and qualified applicants for a $30K position bad.
posted by halogen at 4:55 PM on July 27, 2010
Seattle's job market right now is really, really bad. Like, 100+ overeducated and qualified applicants for a $30K position bad.
posted by halogen at 4:55 PM on July 27, 2010
I was also coming to suggest Olympia (although, sadly, it is no longer the home of buyolympia.com. Like everyone else, they moved to Portland). It's both cheap and arty.
Portland is enchanting, but you'll be around a lot of people who are exactly like you, which is both fun and frustrating, especially depending on what kind of art you do. And the lack of jobs is no joke.
Listen to nickjadlowe and consider his points carefully.
posted by purpleclover at 5:01 PM on July 27, 2010
Portland is enchanting, but you'll be around a lot of people who are exactly like you, which is both fun and frustrating, especially depending on what kind of art you do. And the lack of jobs is no joke.
Listen to nickjadlowe and consider his points carefully.
posted by purpleclover at 5:01 PM on July 27, 2010
Regarding apartment costs...both places are "expensive." And this is the kind of thing I am talking about above...in Seattle, the bulk of the artists live just outside of downtown in areas that do not register for most people as discreet neighborhoods. They live in the "in-between" places, places like Georgetown, South Park, Pioneer Square, the area between Fremont and Ballard, Interbay, and other transitioning, formerly (as often presently) light-industrial areas. These are the areas that have less expensive, but less traditional spaces that also accommodate studio spaces. Most people pass through them on their way to other areas, and don't even realize that they are small, thriving artist communities. These are the areas of a larger city that you might not find on your own when first visiting...but which are just the kind of place you would be ultimately be interested in. It's is also where the other artists are.
The typical apartment prices do not really apply to these areas. Artists here tend to have less traditional living arrangements than the standard X bedroom + X baths in a dedicated complex. There are several places like The Old Rainier Brewery that have been specifically turned into artist's residences and workspaces. You might want to remain open to looking for shared resources and non-traditional arrangements like these.
posted by nickjadlowe at 5:07 PM on July 27, 2010
The typical apartment prices do not really apply to these areas. Artists here tend to have less traditional living arrangements than the standard X bedroom + X baths in a dedicated complex. There are several places like The Old Rainier Brewery that have been specifically turned into artist's residences and workspaces. You might want to remain open to looking for shared resources and non-traditional arrangements like these.
posted by nickjadlowe at 5:07 PM on July 27, 2010
Given your price range and bike lust, yes, Portland is better. Speaking as a young creative in Portland, I will echo the words of caution.
1. Bad job market. It's been said, but I'll reiterate. The streets are littered with young artists just like you. The local papers write about how bad the job market is *particularly for young educated creative types* You are the most over-represented demographic here. I'm not saying don't come, I'm just saying be prepared. The advice to have savings is real. I've been here for almost 10 years now, and people who love the place leave because they can't find work. The flip side is that it will be really easy for your to find creative friends with a lot of time on their hands.
2. Artistic glass ceiling. I also know a lot of people who leave because it's not a big enough city for them to fulfill their ambitions. There is a great sense of community, but you have to be content playing for your friends. The scene is only so big.
3. People get comfortable and that makes them lazy. It is easy to have great creative friends, make some neat little projects and never do anything with any of it cause you're having a great time. Maybe you FINALLY found a job and that was such a challenge that now just surviving in Portland and being able to make little projects seems like the best thing ever. And maybe it is, but if the above point is going to be an issue for you, consider seattle more seriously.
4. People get depressed and that means they don't make art. If your take on a rainy day is to stay inside and drink beer, you will find a lot of interesting company. You will talk a lot about creative ideas. And you will probably never really enact them.
If you can avoid these pitfalls and strike gold in the job market, then yay! welcome. I'm a grumpy Portland creative who has a super unglamorous job making documentaries, but I feel blessed that I live here and get make my living with my creativity. My work is interesting. I love my friends. I love the trees, and I love that I can eat really well on my tiny wage. It's only when I hear about the amazing projects my peers from school are doing that I feel little pangs that maybe I'm stagnating in my work cause I'm so comfortable.
So, really, that's the compromise. Do you sacrifice economic/career health for a cozy lifestyle? Or do you take the colder route to live somewhere with more career opportunity and a more cosmopolitan aesthetic?
posted by ohisee at 7:28 PM on July 27, 2010
1. Bad job market. It's been said, but I'll reiterate. The streets are littered with young artists just like you. The local papers write about how bad the job market is *particularly for young educated creative types* You are the most over-represented demographic here. I'm not saying don't come, I'm just saying be prepared. The advice to have savings is real. I've been here for almost 10 years now, and people who love the place leave because they can't find work. The flip side is that it will be really easy for your to find creative friends with a lot of time on their hands.
2. Artistic glass ceiling. I also know a lot of people who leave because it's not a big enough city for them to fulfill their ambitions. There is a great sense of community, but you have to be content playing for your friends. The scene is only so big.
3. People get comfortable and that makes them lazy. It is easy to have great creative friends, make some neat little projects and never do anything with any of it cause you're having a great time. Maybe you FINALLY found a job and that was such a challenge that now just surviving in Portland and being able to make little projects seems like the best thing ever. And maybe it is, but if the above point is going to be an issue for you, consider seattle more seriously.
4. People get depressed and that means they don't make art. If your take on a rainy day is to stay inside and drink beer, you will find a lot of interesting company. You will talk a lot about creative ideas. And you will probably never really enact them.
If you can avoid these pitfalls and strike gold in the job market, then yay! welcome. I'm a grumpy Portland creative who has a super unglamorous job making documentaries, but I feel blessed that I live here and get make my living with my creativity. My work is interesting. I love my friends. I love the trees, and I love that I can eat really well on my tiny wage. It's only when I hear about the amazing projects my peers from school are doing that I feel little pangs that maybe I'm stagnating in my work cause I'm so comfortable.
So, really, that's the compromise. Do you sacrifice economic/career health for a cozy lifestyle? Or do you take the colder route to live somewhere with more career opportunity and a more cosmopolitan aesthetic?
posted by ohisee at 7:28 PM on July 27, 2010
I spent 26 years in the PNW. Do not move there on the basis of one late August trip, unless you have really, truly figured out whether you can deal with the weather. I love the PNW, I LOVE the weather, but it is so common that people migrate to Oregon and Washington after visiting in the summer only to discover that they are miserable the other 9 months of the year that we natives have unending jokes about (and not a little derision for) them. Neither of these cities will be beautiful, bright, clear-skied, etc etc from September to May; they will be grey, rainy, grey, cold, grey, foggy, grey, wet, grey. Can you handle that?
As for choosing a city, I think your budget alone says Portland. I lived in Seattle for 7 years. Short of roommates or a particularly lucky find on artists' accommodations, you will not find the kind of space you're looking for on the kind of budget you're talking about within city limits.
posted by asciident at 7:50 PM on July 27, 2010
As for choosing a city, I think your budget alone says Portland. I lived in Seattle for 7 years. Short of roommates or a particularly lucky find on artists' accommodations, you will not find the kind of space you're looking for on the kind of budget you're talking about within city limits.
posted by asciident at 7:50 PM on July 27, 2010
I was going to come in and mention the dreadful Portland job market as well, but it seems that's been covered. I'm an Oregon native (hi!) and while Portland is apparently awesome for creatives, it has some... well... difficulties if you have kids, want to buy a home (on the east side), or like plastic bags.
I also have to stress that summer is not the time to decide to move to the great PNW. Try February when the biennial ice storm blows through, or October when it floods.
I'm sort of stuck living here but it can be great
posted by fiercekitten at 8:32 PM on July 27, 2010
I also have to stress that summer is not the time to decide to move to the great PNW. Try February when the biennial ice storm blows through, or October when it floods.
I'm sort of stuck living here but it can be great
posted by fiercekitten at 8:32 PM on July 27, 2010
Thank you for all the responses so far!
1- Weather- I know we are visiting during the 'pretty' time of year- but i actually love love love rainy weather and overcast days. Obviously living there will be the true test, but i was actually looking forward to it :)
2- Jobs - We do both have a lot saved up for the unfortunate event that we cant find even a temporary job in a reasonable amount of time. Are there not even little retail jobs availible most of the time? Speaking personally, i would actually probably not be looking for an art-related job, and would probably aim to get a job that utilizes my horticultural knowledge.
3- Art making- Once again, speaking for myself, not the bo- I am most creative and productive when i feel like i am connecting to my surroundings. And i definitly dont feel inspired by or connected to chicago. I totally get what ohisee and nickjadlowe are saying about Seattle being the place to go if you are more serious. I dont know if i feel like i want to get hardcore about my art profession right away, or if i just want to immerse myself in making things and solidifying my art-making habits. Maybe you can do both, i dont know. I feel like Portland could be a more satisfying environment, but seattle would better, long term.
Oh and, ohisee - your point #3 sounds like my most terrifying scenario ever. Making little projects but not really doing anything. For both of us, the worst possible outcome is that we dont keep active and dont put serious time into artmaking- although this is something we are paranoid about so im not sure if we would ever let that really happen long term.
Suggestions about Bellingham and Olympia actually sound appealing in there own ways. Could anyone provide more oppinions on that? With all the anxiety of moving and making these decisions, it seems like it might be nice to move out somewhere a little cheaper/smaller but still artsy and get your shit together, make art, while you learn more about the bigger cities you are considering moving to. Also it could be easier to secure a job before moving (since it would be a few hour drive to and from the cities to interview, rather than trying to do it from chicago).
Thanks guys and gals, so much!
posted by bleedfoot at 5:10 AM on July 28, 2010
1- Weather- I know we are visiting during the 'pretty' time of year- but i actually love love love rainy weather and overcast days. Obviously living there will be the true test, but i was actually looking forward to it :)
2- Jobs - We do both have a lot saved up for the unfortunate event that we cant find even a temporary job in a reasonable amount of time. Are there not even little retail jobs availible most of the time? Speaking personally, i would actually probably not be looking for an art-related job, and would probably aim to get a job that utilizes my horticultural knowledge.
3- Art making- Once again, speaking for myself, not the bo- I am most creative and productive when i feel like i am connecting to my surroundings. And i definitly dont feel inspired by or connected to chicago. I totally get what ohisee and nickjadlowe are saying about Seattle being the place to go if you are more serious. I dont know if i feel like i want to get hardcore about my art profession right away, or if i just want to immerse myself in making things and solidifying my art-making habits. Maybe you can do both, i dont know. I feel like Portland could be a more satisfying environment, but seattle would better, long term.
Oh and, ohisee - your point #3 sounds like my most terrifying scenario ever. Making little projects but not really doing anything. For both of us, the worst possible outcome is that we dont keep active and dont put serious time into artmaking- although this is something we are paranoid about so im not sure if we would ever let that really happen long term.
Suggestions about Bellingham and Olympia actually sound appealing in there own ways. Could anyone provide more oppinions on that? With all the anxiety of moving and making these decisions, it seems like it might be nice to move out somewhere a little cheaper/smaller but still artsy and get your shit together, make art, while you learn more about the bigger cities you are considering moving to. Also it could be easier to secure a job before moving (since it would be a few hour drive to and from the cities to interview, rather than trying to do it from chicago).
Thanks guys and gals, so much!
posted by bleedfoot at 5:10 AM on July 28, 2010
Everyone makes wonderful points about both locations, and I think that you'd find your community in either Portland or Seattle. Also, I know that moving is no fun at all, but you can always bounce back and forth between the two if you find that your first choice isn't quite what you want - there's not all that much distance between them, really.
I can't speak to Bellingham, but you may like Olympia. It's a smallish college town with a definite reputation toward artiness. The art crowd there always struck me as younger (college age) than Seattle, but that may just be my perception. In any case, you'd certainly find Olympia cheaper than Portland or Seattle, and the town itself is well situated in a lovely part of the state - not far from the peninsula, water, mountains, and even larger cities.
posted by owls at 8:22 AM on July 28, 2010
I can't speak to Bellingham, but you may like Olympia. It's a smallish college town with a definite reputation toward artiness. The art crowd there always struck me as younger (college age) than Seattle, but that may just be my perception. In any case, you'd certainly find Olympia cheaper than Portland or Seattle, and the town itself is well situated in a lovely part of the state - not far from the peninsula, water, mountains, and even larger cities.
posted by owls at 8:22 AM on July 28, 2010
i actually love love love rainy weather and overcast days.
You say that now, but will you love love love seven months of that in a row? Keep in mind that it can vary a lot from year to year. The first year I lived here, we had a very short and mild winter, which I, being a n00b, took as typical. "Oh, that's not that bad," I thought. The next winter, it rained continuously from October to April and I was an emotional wreck by the time summer finally came.
As if that weren't enough, you will find the days get noticeably shorter in the winter than you are used to in Chicago due to the 6 degree difference of latitude between the two cities. Portland won't be quite as bad, with only 4 degrees difference from Chicago. I moved here from Detroit and it really affected my mood much more than I expected it to.
The good news is, as they say around here, you don't have to shovel rain. So you'll have that going for you. Also note that Olympia, which several others have recommended, is rainier than Seattle.
I recommend a daily 100mg 5-HTP supplement for the winter blahs, by the way.
posted by kindall at 8:54 AM on July 28, 2010
You say that now, but will you love love love seven months of that in a row? Keep in mind that it can vary a lot from year to year. The first year I lived here, we had a very short and mild winter, which I, being a n00b, took as typical. "Oh, that's not that bad," I thought. The next winter, it rained continuously from October to April and I was an emotional wreck by the time summer finally came.
As if that weren't enough, you will find the days get noticeably shorter in the winter than you are used to in Chicago due to the 6 degree difference of latitude between the two cities. Portland won't be quite as bad, with only 4 degrees difference from Chicago. I moved here from Detroit and it really affected my mood much more than I expected it to.
The good news is, as they say around here, you don't have to shovel rain. So you'll have that going for you. Also note that Olympia, which several others have recommended, is rainier than Seattle.
I recommend a daily 100mg 5-HTP supplement for the winter blahs, by the way.
posted by kindall at 8:54 AM on July 28, 2010
And this year in Portland it was still overcast and raining in early July! FYI...
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 11:12 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 11:12 AM on July 28, 2010
Yeah, our 4th of July cookout was rained out in the Seattle burbs.
posted by kindall at 11:58 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by kindall at 11:58 AM on July 28, 2010
Are there not even little retail jobs availible most of the time? Speaking personally, i would actually probably not be looking for an art-related job, and would probably aim to get a job that utilizes my horticultural knowledge.
To repeat: the job market sucks. Are those jobs available? Sure. But right now in Portland, they're going to people with oodles of experience, connections (PDX is nothing if not 'a big town,' whereas Seattle is 'a small city'). Try looking on Craigslist or Indeed for a job in both cities, and maybe send out some resumés to get a sense of what you'd be getting into.
posted by blazingunicorn at 5:07 PM on July 28, 2010
To repeat: the job market sucks. Are those jobs available? Sure. But right now in Portland, they're going to people with oodles of experience, connections (PDX is nothing if not 'a big town,' whereas Seattle is 'a small city'). Try looking on Craigslist or Indeed for a job in both cities, and maybe send out some resumés to get a sense of what you'd be getting into.
posted by blazingunicorn at 5:07 PM on July 28, 2010
Even retail jobs and service industry jobs are hard to come by here. You will be competing with literally hundreds of people with exactly the same qualifications for every position open unless you have a personal in.
That said, getting a job taking care of plants might be more specialized and therefore easier to come by? I know a couple people who did that for a while.
posted by ohisee at 5:14 PM on July 28, 2010
That said, getting a job taking care of plants might be more specialized and therefore easier to come by? I know a couple people who did that for a while.
posted by ohisee at 5:14 PM on July 28, 2010
Chiming in a bit late... yeah, there are very few retail jobs here even. Lots of folks just aren't even looking for work anymore. In May the unemployment rate in Portland was 10.4%. Chicago apparently has it pretty bad too, and I can't compare, but, yeah, it's bad.
Regarding the weather: we just moved here, and I was doing great with the weather until ... June. It was cold and damp almost all of June. I was wearing *wool* in June. In mid-June!
posted by bluedaisy at 12:47 PM on August 2, 2010
Regarding the weather: we just moved here, and I was doing great with the weather until ... June. It was cold and damp almost all of June. I was wearing *wool* in June. In mid-June!
posted by bluedaisy at 12:47 PM on August 2, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kindall at 4:04 PM on July 27, 2010