Fortunate Sons?

July 22, 2010 12:16 PM

While on vacation in Belize, many of the locals commented that while they liked American adults just fine, their children were the most spoiled among the tourist families. We've heard this elsewhere on our travels to Europe and Southeast Asia. Is this true? If so, is there a unique style of American parenting that other cultures see as problematic or inferior?

I know this can't exact a very quantifiable answer, like, "Yes! American kids are 45% more spoiled than their French counterparts."

But my partner and I, possibly because we're childless, have heard many different people from various cultures confide that they think American kids are spoiled. The woman who ran our inn in Belmopan commented that she was happy to learn we weren't bringing children with us, because "American children are too explosive." When we pressed her for details, she waved our questions away.

Similar comments have been made to us all over the world. A Parisian client said that Americans spoil their children with many toys and treat them like they're the center of the world. My partner's Shanghainese co-worker has remarked that only America do children run a family.

My partner seemed to side with the non-Americans, but I have my doubts.

1) Many of these people are witnessing American families while they vacation abroad, which is a much more stressful event than simply going to dinner or a museum in their own country.
2) Americans are stereotyped as selfish and materialistic, so any time an American toddler has a normal toddler tantrum, it's confirmation bias.
3) ? Is this some truth to the perception that American kids are spoiled by the standards of other cultures?

Background: my partner is Argentine and often comments that his parents never let him "get away" with the behavior we often see among children in the states. He wasn't spanked, just apparently not allowed to yell at his mother or make a loud scene if he wanted something. I grew up among hippie parents who thought even young children should be treated like adults, in that their wants and desires were valid. We're both, obviously, not parents, and not in any way judging different parenting styles.

posted by Hwaet to Society & Culture (33 answers total)

I'm no expert but I think that a lot of American society caters specifically to children and as a result some parents expect the rest of the world to cater to their children. Like kids' menus at restaurants - I don't think that's a worldwide thing.
posted by kat518 at 12:26 PM on July 22, 2010 [8 favorites]

Anecdata: I have friends from New Zealand who just visited relatives in the UK, and they said that one set of relatives' children* were unbelievably spoiled -- "little tyrants," I believe was the quote, in which virtually everything (what restaurants to go to ["kid-friendly," only], what activities to partake in, whether they would take public transportation or drive to said activities, when and where to go shopping and what to buy -- even what time people were to wake up and go to bed) were explicitly dictacted by the children's desires and preferences. By contrast, the other set of relatives' children* were perfectly well-behaved and -- strangely enough -- were also not given the power to dictate what all the adults would do.

So yes, there certainly seems to be a certain ultra-spoiling parenting style out there, but it doesn't seem to be exclusive to Americans.

*Set 1 children have a father from New Zealand and a mother from Italy; Set 2 children have a father from New Zealand and a mother from Great Britain.
posted by scody at 12:27 PM on July 22, 2010

I think #2 AND 3 - counter intuitive as it might be. As in all stereotypes, there is confirmation bias, but I think that sometimes, either for historical or cultural reasons, stereotypes have some grounding in truth.

#2 - you see a bratty kid and then you hear an American accent you'll say, "Another spoiled American." whereas a different accent or a non-English language, and you merely think, "What a brat."

However with different cultural values, parenting standards and also in the US, social class values, it might be that a higher percentage of American kids that the proprietors see are bratty than kids of other countries. Now probably she and your Parisian client saw a subset of Americans who are wealthy and might tend to be materialistic and spoil their children and took that for being how all Americans act, supporting both confirmation bias and my contention that sometimes stereotypes have a germ of truth.

(Using my ethnic group as an example so as not to start a flame war. Jews are cheap & pushy and dishonest businesspeople. Hell no, but perhaps because historically Jews couldn't own land, and were poor in the shtetl in the pale of settlement, extreme frugality was adaptive, and being pushy and maybe even a bit dishonest paid the rent if the only means of making a living open to you was a tinker. But still people *even Jews* hear Bernie Madoff and think "Jeez, what a Jew")
posted by xetere at 12:35 PM on July 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

While vacationing on a small island outside Venice a couple of years ago, an Italian friend of mine asked if all American children are pleasant and well-behaved, referring to the daughter of other friends of ours, who was the only child in the party. "Like Jessica?" I asked. "I don't know, I guess they are. She seems pretty normal to me."

He then went on to say say that Italian children are THE WORST. If they're not asleep in public, they are screaming and having a tantrum. I happened to run across only two children during that trip, and they were both in full-on ballistics mode.

So I can't confirm your suspicions about American children. But apparently it would be a good idea to avoid Italian ones.
posted by Srudolph at 12:50 PM on July 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

China has its Little Emperors. I'm going to go with confirmation bias.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:56 PM on July 22, 2010

Americans vacationing abroad are not representative of all Americans. If someone can afford to go abroad on vacation with their children, chances are that they are wealthier and better educated than the average American (notice I'm generalizing here). Perhaps wealthy Americans are more likely to spoil their children. It seems like the individuals you've met are making sweeping generalizations about American children based on their encounters with the wealthy few.
posted by pecanpies at 12:58 PM on July 22, 2010 [8 favorites]

Compared to other cultures, the normative cultural construction of childhood in North America is that children are seen as incompetent and non-productive (compared to adults) and that the appropriate roles for children (eg. let children be children) are such that they should be separate and distinct from adults and their roles. Because children are socialized and expected to behave in disruptive and non-adult ways (eg. tantrums), they are not disciplined or taught in such a way that this does not occur. Combine this, with the North America value on materialism (particularly with making a child 'happy' with toys, and a high level of ritualized material gift giving), and you get a sense of what, from others' perspectives who do not share these constructions of childhood, would see as 'spoiled [North] American children'.
posted by kch at 12:59 PM on July 22, 2010 [13 favorites]

I agree with pecanpies.

People from the USA vacationing with their kids in Belize, Paris or Shanghai are far from representative of "average" or "most" Americans.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:06 PM on July 22, 2010

Some of my Indian cousins were shockingly spoiled when I visited as a child. They were ALLOWED to draw on the WALLS.
posted by sweetkid at 1:06 PM on July 22, 2010

Non-Usian here, well-travelled and resident in a very touristy city (Amsterdam). For what it's worth: I have never heard this stereotype of American kids and am also not really familiar with the idea that Americans are "selfish and materialistic". But I am a Westerner, so I would say that it is pretty true of most Western cultures.

One thought is that it might just be the particular people you're running into who feel free to voice their personal opinions. What I'm trying to say is, some people feel like they're complimenting you by pointing out one of their negative perceptions about your culture/nationality and stressing that, "You're not like that!" Drives me nuts.

I would also venture to suggest that most people - obviously not your people in the hospitality industry in Belize - have far more exposure to American culture via your cultural exports (think: Hollywood films and bad tv) rather than from personal experience. So a lot of us think we know a lot about the US, but we really don't, not on a deeper level at least.

In other words, my personal opinion is that most people don't really know what they're talking about, they're just stating their own thoughts as if they were well-known facts.
posted by rubbish bin night at 1:13 PM on July 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think "spoiling" children is a universal phenomena, it's just that different cultures do it in different ways: little emperors, italian mama's boys, persian princesses... etc.
posted by ennui.bz at 1:20 PM on July 22, 2010

I assume this question is a trap to catch one, or all of us, in the hell of unintentional stereotyping, racism, ethnocentrism or some other "ism"--Particularly since objective empirical data is not available. As one who travels quite often here are my observations as a traveler and part time resident of Ireland. American children are not the worst but there are plenty of American parents who lack discipline. As a group the "poorest" behaved I have noted are the young male children of certain privileged groups from, what is broadly defined, as the Middle East or Northern Africa. I intuitively think that children in cultures where gender parity/equality is a basic value have a greater sense of the reciprocity in "social contracts" than do children where there is embedded and significant gender inequality. On a global scale I would posit girls are much better behaved than boys--at least their irritating behaviors are less intrusive on those around them. Irish children are a gift from God until they discover puberty, sex and alcohol and then they join the world of degenerate teenagers. In all honesty I do not think it is possible to make the judgment. I will say one thing without hesitation--American children are the heaviest and the most likely to demand their "rights". While the latter can be quite objectionable the most difficult children are those whose sense of entitlement runs so deep they simply think you and your fellow travelers/visitors are not relevant. BTW, I think there are some really thoughtful answers here.
posted by rmhsinc at 1:21 PM on July 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

Oh, reading your question again:

"My partner is Argentine and often comments that his parents never let him "get away" with the behavior we often see among children in the states. He wasn't spanked, just apparently not allowed to yell at his mother or make a loud scene if he wanted something."

I have often commented on this kind of thing myself, but I guess I haven't connected lack of parental discipline to any particular nationality. We were simply not allowed to yell at our parents or make a scene. Obviously there are valid reasons behind some kids acting out in public (eg I see toddler tantrums regularly, it's just a normal stage of growing up, and some kids have behavioural or psychiatric issues that mean that it takes them longer to learn 'appropriate' behaviour), but I've never really connected bad behaviour with any particular nationality. I would give your partner's opinion more weight than that of the other people you've mentioned, but at the same time it's so hard to compare one's own experiences when they were in another place and time.
posted by rubbish bin night at 1:22 PM on July 22, 2010

Compared to other western countries, North American children do live in a culture of consumer choice run rampant. Wal*Mart and Target and the whole "Kiddie Toy Emporium Super Store" thing is a uniquely American invention. America is a vastly consumermist culture, and those acquisitional values and the objects they buy are handed down to or foisted on kids because that's the culture they live in.

Culturally middle class Americans also have more space than their overseas counterparts. The average American home is considerably larger than the average European home by virtue of sheer available land mass. Consequently children are more likely to have their own rooms and designated play spaces. Americans literally allow children to take up more room.

Those are very broad generalisations and different families will raise their kids with different values in playing out in different ways. But if you're looking for broad indicators as to why someone abroad might have the perception that American kids are comparatively spoiled, those are the broad cultural differences that come to mind.

Dispose of them as you wish.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:26 PM on July 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

I will tentatively offer that middle-class-and-higher children in North America are encouraged to speak their minds to their parents and other authorities, which does not necessarily mean they run the show or have no discipline, but that middle-and-up parenting in the U.S. places a value on questioning of authority, speaking up, asserting oneself, etc. So even a very well-behaved American child may be seen arguing with his parents (politely, one hopes) and expressing negative opinions towards parental dictates, while still obeying those dictates after expressing his opinion. In cultures with a heavier emphasis on respect for authority, this questioning and dialogue may be seen as quite spoiled or rude.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:28 PM on July 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

A lot of this may have to do with the approach to childrearing in America vs. other places, and how that plays into local expectations.

For instance I feel like, here in the states, it's very common for people to completely center their lives around their children, to the point of it sometimes seeming like they use their children as an excuse for their own limitations. "We can't take public transit, we have kids" or "We can't eat French food, we have kids."

Part of me thinks that, in the OP's examples, these people were doing this to a certain extent. A lot of Americans don't do very well immersing themselves in other cultures, and it's much easier to say "we stayed at Club Med instead of a local hotel because it's better for the kids" or "we're eating dinner at this fast food joint because our kids are picky" rather than "I'm that stereotypical American tourist you've heard about!"
posted by Sara C. at 1:30 PM on July 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

Ignore the first sentence of that post - I changed thought processes midstream and meant to delete that.
posted by Sara C. at 1:32 PM on July 22, 2010

As someone raised in America by Eastern European parents, I've often noticed how much more formal my relationship with my parents is than that of my peers. That informality might read as "disrespect" in other cultures.

But, I'm sure it's mostly a combination of confirmation bias and the unique parenting styles of rich, jet-setting parents.
posted by thewrongparty at 1:38 PM on July 22, 2010

I'm not American (but I am a parent), but I have worked with Americans overseas, as well as with people from different countries.

The one constant (and I have been guilty of this in the past) is that everyone loves to pile on the Americans. It's socially acceptable to insult an American to his or her face.

Maybe you should mention to your friend in Shanghai that in America, unlike China, it is unacceptable to let your toddler crap in the street. So I suppose you could say this case Chinese parents are more indulgent than their American counterparts.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:03 PM on July 22, 2010 [7 favorites]

My husband's sister-in-law is Korean, and it has been noted that Korean children are coddled and allowed to do whatever they want without reprimand.
posted by desuetude at 2:34 PM on July 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'd consider this non-scientific survey of world attitudes toward American rug-rats in the same way I'd consider anyone airing their bigotry in the presence of someone they (wink-wink) assume agrees with them. If you and your partner had a toddler in tow, I'm sure your innkeeper in Belize would've shut up, or more likely exempted your (obviously well-behaved and exceptional) child from her generalization. Bigotry, in all its forms, is a symptom of garden-variety stupidity, even when it's based on personal experience.

And fyi, "treat(ing) them like they're the center of the world" is the definition of parenthood. They are; and if yours aren't, then you're doing it wrong.
posted by turducken at 2:38 PM on July 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

I'm American, and a parent. I recently spent quite a bit of time with a friend who was here with her two children, on vacation from the UK. She was SO impressed and overwhelmed with the degree to which public life in the US is designed to accommodate children, from kids' menus and little boxes of crayons at restaurants to rental strollers at the zoo to the child-minding available in some grocery stores. She was honestly gushing about it, "it's like they expect people to have children with them and do things to make it easier! It's amazing!"

It's possible that some American tourists don't necessarily realize that these things aren't always a part of public life in other areas, and so ask for them. "Do you have a kid's menu? Anything for her to color on? Excuse me, do you know where we can rent a stroller?" or whatever. I can see how that would come across as "OMG American kids are frickin spoiled rotten!"
posted by KathrynT at 3:27 PM on July 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

My first reaction, being an American who has worked as a waiter, is FUCK YES American children are spoiled, tiny assholes.

But, then, when would someone bring up how good kids are being? Are there countries whose kids stereotypically travel well? One doesn't notice the good kids, or comment on them to foreigners. I still think American kids are probably worse than average, though.
posted by cmoj at 5:05 PM on July 22, 2010

I think it's like syphilis.

I know, but bear with me here. I'll explain where I'm going with this.

As Wikipedia notes, "syphilis had been called the "French disease" in Italy, Poland and Germany, and the "Italian disease" in France. In addition, the Dutch called it the "Spanish disease", the Russians called it the "Polish disease", the Turks called it the "Christian disease" or "Frank disease" (frengi) and the Tahitians called it the "British disease"."

In other words, every culture blamed syphilis on another culture than theirs. The bad stuff is always "them" and not "us". We don't like to think we are the source of the worst of anything.

Including kids.

So, to kids from other countries? American kids are syphilis.

Really, kids are kids everywhere, and though parenting styles differ, you can find spoiled rotten kids (which I would define as kids without good boundaries set in place by their parents) in every single culture there is.

I will grant that these spoiled kids do tend to more likely be those with wealthy parents who can afford to indulge them, though, no matter what their ethnic background.
posted by misha at 5:20 PM on July 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

I was going to write a long comment about The Children of the World based on my life in Trinidad and Tobago, my seven months teaching French primary school students, and my brief visits to the US - but it all seems a bit like too much information. Let me just say that IMO children's behavior is clearly and obviously shaped by their cultural upbringing, and that yes, some children are, on the whole, nicer to have around than others. I find French children to generally be a delight, and Trinidadian and American children to generally be less of a delight. Not that there isn't a HUGE amount of variation on the individual level, and obviously region, wealth and a million other factors apply. I'm just talking about what it's been like, for me, to take a trip to the supermarket, the bank, restaurants, cinemas, etc in these different places. I think there's a tendency to want to flatten out global experiences so that nothing is ever worse or better. But that's not just not the case. So chin up, Americans; chin up, Trinidadians. (Y)our children can seem loud and obnoxious to foreigners. Because so many of them are. But even the worst of them have their good qualities - and not by accident, either, but because they are American or Trinidadian, or whatever. And the same is true in reverse for all the little French children, so lovely to have at the adjacent table, or behind you on the train. That's just life, it's not a big deal.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 6:23 PM on July 22, 2010

He wasn't spanked, just apparently not allowed to yell at his mother or make a loud scene if he wanted something. I grew up among hippie parents who thought even young children should be treated like adults, in that their wants and desires were valid.

Just noticed this. I had permissive parents (could always say what I thought, could usually do what I wanted, never had a bedtime or had to eat things I didn't like, etc), but I was certainly never allowed to behave like that, and I think if any Trinidadian children do, it's VERY much in spite of their parents. Is that normal, as in OK, where you're from?
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 6:38 PM on July 22, 2010

I am half european and half dominican, spent the first 12 years of my life in the dominican republic, moved there, then spent some time in greece with the grandparents have lived in the U.S for 10 straight years now....Kids are usually much more respectful in these two countries than in here when it comes to respecting their elders. Talking back to their parents is not allowed and neither is to question their authority, also if you throw a tantrum at least in the dominican republic your parents are allowed to spank you right then and there....Americans have laws that would not let them do this (at least not in a public space).....However I do have to admit that as Americans mature they seem to be less cuddled than in other societies.....The little emperor complex mentioned above is not only specific to Asia.
posted by The1andonly at 7:08 PM on July 22, 2010

So do American kids not call dad "Sir" any more?
posted by A189Nut at 7:26 PM on July 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

I wonder how much affect the litigious culture of America may have effected American children. Teachers are not allowed to discipline children anymore. Parents are uncomfortable with dealing out a good spanking in public. Just saying........

Oh, and yeah, people like to pile it on the Americans these days. In a hundred years they will pile it on someone else.
posted by jasondigitized at 5:12 AM on July 23, 2010

When I travel and central heat and hot water is not available as well as other amenities like working trains, etc. I feel like most Americans are spoiled to some degree. Most Americans take these things for granted.
posted by xammerboy at 8:20 AM on July 23, 2010

This question is a lot like the [evolution/intelligent design] question, where evidence is a matter of personal emotion.
posted by Deor at 6:01 PM on July 23, 2010

This question is a lot like the [evolution/intelligent design] question, where evidence is a matter of personal emotion.

If you understand the scientific method and the overwhelming material evidence for evolution, then no, it's not really like that at all.
posted by scody at 9:06 PM on July 23, 2010 [2 favorites]

I wonder how much affect the litigious culture of America may have effected American children. Teachers are not allowed to discipline children anymore. Parents are uncomfortable with dealing out a good spanking in public. Just saying........

Teachers can't physically discipline children, there's plenty of ways to discipline a child. And guuuh a good spanking in public? [boggle]

Possibly this has less to do with litigiousness and more to do with changing mores. Thank the gods.
posted by desuetude at 9:23 PM on July 23, 2010