Why can't I stare at the sun?
July 15, 2010 4:00 AM Subscribe
What evidence is there that staring at the sun makes you go blind?
I've been searching for hours... I can't find any serious concrete evidence that staring at the sun is actually bad for you, although the general consensus is that it will burn out your eyes and make you go blind. Surely there must be at least one verifiable study or at least one anecdote that supports this. Is this an old wives' tale?
I've been searching for hours... I can't find any serious concrete evidence that staring at the sun is actually bad for you, although the general consensus is that it will burn out your eyes and make you go blind. Surely there must be at least one verifiable study or at least one anecdote that supports this. Is this an old wives' tale?
Well the NHS is not in the business of repeating old wives tales:
Long-term exposure to sunlight increases the risk of a type of cataract and is also linked to pterygia (a growth on the surface of the eye).
Simon Kelly, of the Royal College of Ophthalmologists, warns that sun can burn the eyes too.
"Over-exposure to ultraviolet light, such as a day at the beach without proper eye protection, can cause a temporary but painful burn to the surface of the eye, similar to sunburn on the skin," he says.
He adds that reflected sunlight from snow and water, and artificial light from sunbeds, is particularly dangerous. Always avoid looking directly at the sun. "Staring directly at the sun can permanently scar the retina, the area at the back of the eye responsible for vision," he says.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:05 AM on July 15, 2010
Long-term exposure to sunlight increases the risk of a type of cataract and is also linked to pterygia (a growth on the surface of the eye).
Simon Kelly, of the Royal College of Ophthalmologists, warns that sun can burn the eyes too.
"Over-exposure to ultraviolet light, such as a day at the beach without proper eye protection, can cause a temporary but painful burn to the surface of the eye, similar to sunburn on the skin," he says.
He adds that reflected sunlight from snow and water, and artificial light from sunbeds, is particularly dangerous. Always avoid looking directly at the sun. "Staring directly at the sun can permanently scar the retina, the area at the back of the eye responsible for vision," he says.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:05 AM on July 15, 2010
Also, I am guessing from the tags that this question is related to the practice of "sungazing". The Wikipedia article for Sungazing has plenty of reference links about eye damage.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:08 AM on July 15, 2010
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:08 AM on July 15, 2010
Response by poster: Wikipedia's article on sungazing says "vision loss due to this damage is generally reversible"
I'm not asking about long term exposure to solar radiation. I'm asking for proof that staring at the sun burns your eyes.
posted by twoleftfeet at 4:12 AM on July 15, 2010
I'm not asking about long term exposure to solar radiation. I'm asking for proof that staring at the sun burns your eyes.
posted by twoleftfeet at 4:12 AM on July 15, 2010
I have no data, but just an anecdote.
As a kid (10ish?, it was a long time ago so I'm not sure), I remember staring at the setting sun (so, late afternoon). I hoped/imagined it would give me super-powers or something.
I remember it used to pulse in a circle, like a spiral. Which I guess is some kind of retinal based after-image.
posted by antiquark at 4:12 AM on July 15, 2010
As a kid (10ish?, it was a long time ago so I'm not sure), I remember staring at the setting sun (so, late afternoon). I hoped/imagined it would give me super-powers or something.
I remember it used to pulse in a circle, like a spiral. Which I guess is some kind of retinal based after-image.
posted by antiquark at 4:12 AM on July 15, 2010
Eye injuries of early solar observers, wherein the author notes that accounts of blindness as a result of observing the sun are basically folklore, but that it's quite possible to do lasting damage.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 4:14 AM on July 15, 2010
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 4:14 AM on July 15, 2010
proof that staring at the sun burns your eyes.
Medical journal article:
Retinal damage caused by direct exposure to the sun's rays is well recognized by the ophthalmic community. Although functional ability in solar retinopathy is usually regained within weeks, some suffer long-term visual impairment. Anatomic damage to the retina, even in those who regain full vision, is permanent. We describe 2 cases of solar retinopathy, 1 of which remained with permanent loss of vision.
Also, from this BBC report on solar eclipses:
This picture shows a more extreme form of solar retinopathy in the left eye of a young man who stared unprotected at a partial eclipse of the sun.
Several crescent-shaped burns can be seen in the central retina, and these have resulted in blindness in this eye, with his vision reduced to below 20/400 (6/120).
That second quote is about someone who looked at a solar eclipse, so is a) not from long-term damage, and b) not even the full strength of the sun.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:21 AM on July 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Medical journal article:
Retinal damage caused by direct exposure to the sun's rays is well recognized by the ophthalmic community. Although functional ability in solar retinopathy is usually regained within weeks, some suffer long-term visual impairment. Anatomic damage to the retina, even in those who regain full vision, is permanent. We describe 2 cases of solar retinopathy, 1 of which remained with permanent loss of vision.
Also, from this BBC report on solar eclipses:
This picture shows a more extreme form of solar retinopathy in the left eye of a young man who stared unprotected at a partial eclipse of the sun.
Several crescent-shaped burns can be seen in the central retina, and these have resulted in blindness in this eye, with his vision reduced to below 20/400 (6/120).
That second quote is about someone who looked at a solar eclipse, so is a) not from long-term damage, and b) not even the full strength of the sun.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:21 AM on July 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm not asking about long term exposure to solar radiation. I'm asking for proof that staring at the sun burns your eyes.
Were you able to access that article I linked about solar retinopathy after the 1999 solar eclipse in East Sussex?
In case you don't have access, here's the key discussion:
Eclipse retinopathy is the commonest cause of solar retinopathy. Victims of solar retinopathy may complain of blurred vision, a central black spot and metamorphopsia. After 6 months the visual acuity is usually in the range of 6/5 to 6/12 but frequently with a small central subjective scotoma. Visual acuity does not always recover and has reportedly remained as low as 3/60 with permanent retinal damage in the form of retinal holes and pseudoholes.
[...]
Rai et al describe 3-year follow-up of 319 solar retinopathy patients, 126 of whom had observed a solar eclipse. They found a similar good prognosis for visual acuity and only a small proportion with longstanding metamorphopsia (11 eyes of 319 patients).
[....]
Our study concurs that patients can make an excellent recovery in the first 3 months following a solar retinal injury. 6/6 visual acuity was attained in cases 4, 14 and 15 despite initial visual acuities of 6/36, 6/24 and 6/18 respectively. Persistence of foveal hypopigmentation at 3 months in cases 5 and 14 may have been predictive of worse long-term visual acuity
[...]
Visual acuity can improve considerably in the majority of eclipse-related solar burns. However, the persistence of visual symptoms in those with mild burns would suggest that even brief glimpses of a solar eclipse should be avoided.
posted by Mike1024 at 4:22 AM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Were you able to access that article I linked about solar retinopathy after the 1999 solar eclipse in East Sussex?
In case you don't have access, here's the key discussion:
Eclipse retinopathy is the commonest cause of solar retinopathy. Victims of solar retinopathy may complain of blurred vision, a central black spot and metamorphopsia. After 6 months the visual acuity is usually in the range of 6/5 to 6/12 but frequently with a small central subjective scotoma. Visual acuity does not always recover and has reportedly remained as low as 3/60 with permanent retinal damage in the form of retinal holes and pseudoholes.
[...]
Rai et al describe 3-year follow-up of 319 solar retinopathy patients, 126 of whom had observed a solar eclipse. They found a similar good prognosis for visual acuity and only a small proportion with longstanding metamorphopsia (11 eyes of 319 patients).
[....]
Our study concurs that patients can make an excellent recovery in the first 3 months following a solar retinal injury. 6/6 visual acuity was attained in cases 4, 14 and 15 despite initial visual acuities of 6/36, 6/24 and 6/18 respectively. Persistence of foveal hypopigmentation at 3 months in cases 5 and 14 may have been predictive of worse long-term visual acuity
[...]
Visual acuity can improve considerably in the majority of eclipse-related solar burns. However, the persistence of visual symptoms in those with mild burns would suggest that even brief glimpses of a solar eclipse should be avoided.
posted by Mike1024 at 4:22 AM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Solar eclipses are not the same everyone - because your pupil dilates more because it's actually dark, thereby letting more uv light in, it's not the same as staring at a bright sun.
I've read this in a book somewhere - and my googling is no doubt no better than yours, so more anecdote I'm afraid - but you can actually stare at the sun quite a lot without going blind. Early astronomers and physicists as pointed out above often did it for hours - it made their eyes sore, and water, but you had to look at it _a lot_ to get severe, lasting damage.
I think _maybe_ it was in An Ocean of Air, by Gabrielle Walker.
posted by smoke at 4:28 AM on July 15, 2010
I've read this in a book somewhere - and my googling is no doubt no better than yours, so more anecdote I'm afraid - but you can actually stare at the sun quite a lot without going blind. Early astronomers and physicists as pointed out above often did it for hours - it made their eyes sore, and water, but you had to look at it _a lot_ to get severe, lasting damage.
I think _maybe_ it was in An Ocean of Air, by Gabrielle Walker.
posted by smoke at 4:28 AM on July 15, 2010
Response by poster: Solar eclipses are not the same everyone
That's a very good point.
Apparently people from Ireland to India have been blinded by looking at the sun, though for the most part the blindness seems temporary.
I can't find any non-solar-eclipse literature confirming permanent damage.
Disclaimer: Don't stare at the sun anyway.
posted by twoleftfeet at 4:38 AM on July 15, 2010
That's a very good point.
Apparently people from Ireland to India have been blinded by looking at the sun, though for the most part the blindness seems temporary.
I can't find any non-solar-eclipse literature confirming permanent damage.
Disclaimer: Don't stare at the sun anyway.
posted by twoleftfeet at 4:38 AM on July 15, 2010
On the anecdata and ultraviolet front, when I was around 7 years old I watched my father arc-welding for a few hours without the appropriate eye protection. Aside from a night screaming in pain, a trip to the emergency room, and wearing patches over my eyes for a couple of weeks... I seem to have recovered. I wouldn't recommend it, it hurts.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:51 AM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 4:51 AM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
On the retinal hole front, I believe I can say you want none of that action. I've stared into an awful lot of 535nm laser in the doc's office since I got my first atrophic retinal hole five years ago. It's not excruciating-- retinal detach surgery sure is, though-- but having tiny burns strategically placed on your retina to block off the damaged area isn't a good time.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 8:01 AM on July 15, 2010
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 8:01 AM on July 15, 2010
Also, often people (amateurs) looking at solar eclipses are trying to get a better view by looking through a binoculars or telescope during totality. Then *BAM* get hit when the totality breaks. This magnifies the image and can lead to scaring (ever burn ants under a magnifying glass? like that... but in your eye). NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER DO THAT!
Several crescent-shaped burns can be seen in the central retina, and these have resulted in blindness in this eye, with his vision reduced to below 20/400 (6/120).
I'm not sure, but I bet that's what happened here. So it is plausible that staring with the naked eye is not AS bad.
Even so, if science has not deemed it necessary that we test this theory that staring at sun leads to blindness, then I'm certainly not going to risk my eyes to find out.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2010
Several crescent-shaped burns can be seen in the central retina, and these have resulted in blindness in this eye, with his vision reduced to below 20/400 (6/120).
I'm not sure, but I bet that's what happened here. So it is plausible that staring with the naked eye is not AS bad.
Even so, if science has not deemed it necessary that we test this theory that staring at sun leads to blindness, then I'm certainly not going to risk my eyes to find out.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2010
I remember something in the book Longitude about sextants and blindness.
Also, pirates.
posted by turducken at 11:00 AM on July 15, 2010
Also, pirates.
posted by turducken at 11:00 AM on July 15, 2010
On the one hand it sounds like the OP wants scientific data from a torture situation, prisoners locked into sun-following machinery, their eyes jacked open like Alex enduring the Ludvoco Technique in A Clockwork Orange. Would they go blind? Has this experiment been conducted?
On the other hand, the OP's Title question's completely different -- "Why Can't I Stare at the Sun?" I think the answer's in your medula, some reflex prevents keeping one's eyes open in such bright light. And yet I've heard of crazy people (the mother of a former girlfriend, for example) who allegedly stared at the sun, eyes wide open for long periods, without ill effect. Creeps me out, frankly -- I hope these people (if they really exist) aren't allowed to drive motor vehicles very often.
posted by Rash at 11:15 AM on July 15, 2010
On the other hand, the OP's Title question's completely different -- "Why Can't I Stare at the Sun?" I think the answer's in your medula, some reflex prevents keeping one's eyes open in such bright light. And yet I've heard of crazy people (the mother of a former girlfriend, for example) who allegedly stared at the sun, eyes wide open for long periods, without ill effect. Creeps me out, frankly -- I hope these people (if they really exist) aren't allowed to drive motor vehicles very often.
posted by Rash at 11:15 AM on July 15, 2010
I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but earlier this year, I met a guy who was now blind after having stared obsessively at the sun as a child. He described having stared at the sun for long periods of time as a kid. He imagined he could see some kind of pattern or image in the sun and would obsessively seek it out. I can't tell you how many hours' cumulative exposure he had, but he's now 30 and legally blind. He can detect gross things like light and dark, but is unable to see any sort of detail.
Interesting guy - remarkably phlegmatic about his loss of vision.
I've also met a psychiatric patient who had delusions about the sun giving him some sort of power. He would stand facing the sun with his arms outstretched and stare at the sun for about an hour each morning. I saw him shortly after he had been admitted as an involuntary psych patient and whilst he still had some odd beliefs about the sun, this sort of behaviour had receded. He had, however, been assessed by an opthamologist at the hospital and diagnosed with some sort of vision loss as a result - can't remember the details.
So based on a sample of two people I have met I would say the answer is absolutely yes, provided you do it for long enough.
posted by tim_in_oz at 3:32 PM on July 15, 2010
Interesting guy - remarkably phlegmatic about his loss of vision.
I've also met a psychiatric patient who had delusions about the sun giving him some sort of power. He would stand facing the sun with his arms outstretched and stare at the sun for about an hour each morning. I saw him shortly after he had been admitted as an involuntary psych patient and whilst he still had some odd beliefs about the sun, this sort of behaviour had receded. He had, however, been assessed by an opthamologist at the hospital and diagnosed with some sort of vision loss as a result - can't remember the details.
So based on a sample of two people I have met I would say the answer is absolutely yes, provided you do it for long enough.
posted by tim_in_oz at 3:32 PM on July 15, 2010
there must be at least one verifiable study
You do realize that a formal study would probably violate most research facilities' ethics policies, I hope. "Group 1, full darkness. Group 2, normal activities. Group 3 .... stare at the sun. Blindness checks at lunch on Friday."
Anecdotes? According to the history of Ray-Ban, the first modern sunglasses were invented after Bausch & Lomb received a request from balloonist John Macready, who complained of permanent damage to his eyes from the sun.["legend has it"]
posted by dhartung at 10:34 PM on July 15, 2010
You do realize that a formal study would probably violate most research facilities' ethics policies, I hope. "Group 1, full darkness. Group 2, normal activities. Group 3 .... stare at the sun. Blindness checks at lunch on Friday."
Anecdotes? According to the history of Ray-Ban, the first modern sunglasses were invented after Bausch & Lomb received a request from balloonist John Macready, who complained of permanent damage to his eyes from the sun.["legend has it"]
posted by dhartung at 10:34 PM on July 15, 2010
Thinking this over, it seems there's some slim percentage of people who CAN stare at the sun for longer than a few nano-seconds. The OP may be one of those people, and he's asking for permission? Please heed tim_in_oz' stories and ask your eye doctor (or even family doctor) for the 'concrete evidence' you're looking for.
posted by Rash at 12:11 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by Rash at 12:11 PM on July 16, 2010
Note I'm not talking about studying the solar disc through overcast clouds, or at sunrise/sunset...most people squint up and invountarily look away from direct sunlight.
posted by Rash at 1:53 PM on July 16, 2010
posted by Rash at 1:53 PM on July 16, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Mike1024 at 4:04 AM on July 15, 2010