Need help with big boy server upgrade questions.

June 16, 2010 11:24 AM

I've come in possession of a Cisco MCS 7800 series server that I'd like to set up as a file server, but I'd like to upgrade it first.

So I have a rackmountable server that a company was replacing with a newer one and they let me have it. It is a Cisco MCS (media convergence server) 7800 server, more specifically this one MCS-7835H-2.4-EVV1. Originally meant as a VOIP, video and teleconferencing server.

It has 6 hard drive bays which originally came with 36.2GB 80 pin SCSI320 hard drives at 10k rpm. The OS (winxp server 2003) takes up 2 drives (raided) and there are 2 other drives for storage.

My question is - I know these are expensive drives to buy and replace but having a giant machine like this at home with only 72 gigs of storage is waste of space, so can I put in slower (hopefully cheaper) 7200 rpm SCSI drives in it and get a decent file server environment going?

Even at full capacity it would only give me 36.2 x 4 = 144-ish GB of storage. Which isn't really much if I'm looking at storing hundreds of hi-res photos and videos.

I've looked online for info and specs on this thing and it's either too technical for me to understand or non-existent.

My main thought is that if I can get a hold of bigger/cheaper drives I can use this as a proper server.

So.....
1) how big of hard drives will this machine accept? and can I get them off eBay? (I saw some but still not sure about the storage capacity)
2) do slower but bigger SCSI 320 hard drive even exist?

and...

3) will it cost me less than an arm and a leg?

The best image I could find of it is this: image on Cisco website

As usual, thanks in advance.

posted by eatcake to Computers & Internet (9 answers total)

Not really addressing the issue but are you aware those those machines are really loud when turned on? They also pump out some heat. Both of these things make them unattractive to keeping in your home office.
posted by mmascolino at 12:07 PM on June 16, 2010

It really depends on what you mean by "decent file server environment".


I found these specs but it doesn't say anything about max size of internal disk - just that they're ultra160. I would assume this to mean that almost any ultra160 scsi disk will work.

if you're looking to use this thing as a home media server, I feel pretty confident stating that it's not going to be cost effective. unless you luck into an ebay auction of disk for (next to) nothing, I would imagine the power consumption costs over time + cost of disks to get a reasonable amount of storage (assuming the hardware supports larger disk - which does seem likely) is going to vastly exceed the cost of a simple media center PC. (not to mention the heat and noise issues this thing represents. most 2U servers aren't quiet.)

I understand that the "hey, free hardware!" factor at play here, but I would argue that it's not hardware worth spending any extra money on.
posted by namewithoutwords at 12:08 PM on June 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

I wouldn't bother - use it for something else, and get something cheap and desktoppy for your file server. there's a few things to keep in mind about what you want to do. for one, you'll have to find SCSI disks that will plug in - most likely (google's not really helping on this), they'll be SCA-80 type connectors on the drive, which look like this (first pic). if you're unlucky, it's something weird, or something that requires a converter board in the drive cage, and you'll have to track down some spare cages. secondly, the biggest thing you're going to get is a 300GB disk - server systems usually care more about performance than storage, and so, even for large disks, it's hard to find things under 10K RPM that'll work in an Ultra320 system. (you can, but they tend to be 2.5" SAS drives that aren't going to work in your system anyway.) even if you do, you're not going to find the same sort of range of sizes you get in desktop drives. it's pretty much 36, 72, 147 and 300GB and that's about it. thirdly, SCSI disks are expensive. even eBay (where these things are usually cheap - SCA disks don't really do you much good if you don't have a real server to shove 'em in) is running $180 or so for 147GB disks. assuming you can use the two spare slots in your 6-bay system, that's 882GB for $1,080. filling it with 300GB disks, for a total of 1.2TB, would be $1,800. there's also the power, heat and noise concerns mentioned already.

instead, use a desktop PC for this. you can buy - brand new - a pair of 1TB SATA desktop-style disks for $150. put your OS on a separate disk, and set up mirroring in your system (Mac OS X, Windows and Linux can all do this, usually out-of-the-box). most OSes also have at least some basic file serving capabilities in them, or you can use Windows Server or Linux or something too. this setup would be cheaper and more flexible, as SATA is current, where Ultra320 SCSI is not (it's being replaced by SAS). additionally, the advantage to this plan is that you'd have a rackmount server to learn on, and you won't have to worry about the data on it. or worry about putting your irreplaceable family photos on some drives that are who knows how old.

if you do opt to go with it, this guide to reconfiguring the array might help. as it looks, most of these MCS deals were rebranded HP/Compaq servers; if you can figure out what it actually is in the HP/Compaq world, that might help you find better documentation. (it looks like these were really designed to be more-or-less turnkey application deals than a normal server.)
posted by mrg at 12:18 PM on June 16, 2010

Response by poster: Right, right and right. I know it's loud and it'll get hot. One reason I'm trying to see if this setup will go anywhere is to teach myself server admin stuff on a real server. So in that case I guess I don't need it to be fully loaded.

I realize it's old(er) technology and that may mean that it's lifespan is on the way out, so I agree in that it's not a cost effective unit as far as a media or file server. I'm sure even a mac mini or something would satisfy my requirements.

So really....it looks like this is more of a big, heavy and loud (and small capacity) external hard drive than a realistic server for my use.

I just thought that "hey, free hardware!" like namewithoutwords said, maybe I can get some use out of this.

Thanks guys for all the info.
posted by eatcake at 12:35 PM on June 16, 2010

Running a server inside something like Sun VirtualBox or another desktop virtualized environment will give you the same kind sort of server experience (and maybe better experience when dealing with certain storage setups) without needing to stick a running vacuum cleaner under your desk.

Stick a new HDD into your desktop and start experimenting!
posted by tmt at 2:32 PM on June 16, 2010

Well, if you are adventurous, you could leave the server as is, and build cheap box to serve as an iSCSI target with some large drives for a couple hundred bucks or so.

Windows comes with a very good iSCSI initiator, so that part is easy enough. Targets are a little harder, but not much.

Servers with local storage are going the way of the dodo anyway, so setting up and administering a mini-SAN meets your goals of learning something new and sys-adminnny.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:47 PM on June 16, 2010

most of these MCS deals were rebranded HP/Compaq servers; if you can figure out what it actually is in the HP/Compaq world, that might help you find better documentation.

They are exactly that - re-branded boxes with custom windows installs. The one you have is a Proliant DL380 (probably the older g2). They later went with with linux-based OS and now have their own appliances, but you should be able to install any windows OS on that old one without too much trouble from drivers.

The downside is they are big, heavy, loud, terribly underpowered, and expensive to get parts - think $200-300 per 36GB drive.

Since you could grab a USB 1TB external drive for ~$100, I'd junk it unless you want to tool around with it.
posted by anti social order at 3:24 PM on June 16, 2010

One reason I'm trying to see if this setup will go anywhere is to teach myself server admin stuff on a real server.

ahh ok then this should work just fine. Throw a copy of windows server on there and have a blast.
posted by anti social order at 3:25 PM on June 16, 2010

If it helps any, that's an HP Proliant dl380 g3.

I'm not sure how much Cisco modifies the standard proliant configuration. It could have custom BIOS and shit, but I'd bet the basics are the same. If it has a RAID card (when it boots, you'll see something like "HP Smart Array 6400 ....". If it does, that's cool, because you can learn all about hardware RAID and have fun making and breaking arrays.

If it has an iLo board, you are in for some real fun. It's a remote control board.

What you need to play with the server stuff is a "Smart Start CD". Probably the newest version, in the 8.x series. Also the Server Support Pack disk. Those have all the cool HP support software that makes the hardware go.

If it was me, I'd get rid of the Cisco software and reinstall a fresh copy of Windows or Linux, if that's your kink. You can do a guided install by booting the smart start CD and following the prompts.

If you were so inclined, you could hang a USB drive off of it for fileserver purposes, and use the SCSI disks for the OS.

You can put any SCSI disk you want into the tray (or find HP spare parts - look for part numbers 289041-001 289042-001 and 289043-001 on google). If the disk has the 80 pin sca connector it will go into the machine and mostly work. But if you make it part of an array, the whole thing will be only as fast as the slowest drive. (Wait- are they hot-swap drives- black with an external handle? If not, you'll have to open it up and see what kind of backplane is in there.)

And yes, it will be loud and hot. If all 4 drives are the same, and you have the hardware raid card, I'd make a 3 drive RAID5 array and leave the 4th as a spare.
posted by gjc at 7:11 PM on June 16, 2010