Random Late-Night Grammar Question

May 28, 2010 12:02 AM

I know this is a silly question, but I've never been able to figure this out. If my sister and I have a favorite song, how would I describe that fact in a sentence? "That's my sister and I's favorite song", "that's my and my sister's favorite song", "that's my sister's and my favorite song?", or some other permutation I may not be seeing?

If possible, could you also give me a name and/or description of the grammatical rule at play in this sentence? I'm just curious.

Thanks!

posted by Buddy-Rey to writing & language (31 answers total)

My sister and I love that song! It's our favorite!

Rule: I'm a book editor and it sounds awkward any other way.
posted by ocherdraco at 12:05 AM on May 28, 2010 [5 favorites]

"That's my sister's and my favorite song."
posted by meadowlark lime at 12:09 AM on May 28, 2010

It's your third suggestion.

In these cases, try dropping one of the two people involved and building the sentence. Then try it, dropping the other one. You've now got two separate sentences you can merge: "That's my sister's favorite song" and "That's my favorite song." Plus (somewhat archaic) rules of politeness dictate that we put other people first and ourselves last, which gives you the word order.

There's a lot of confusion about this, expecially when using the pronoun "I", probably because when when we were kids and said, "Mom, can Fred and me go to the movies" we were immediately told, "It's Fred and I!" So many of us grew up thinking it's always "Someone and I", whatever the context. It's not. "Teacher gave Fred and I a low grade" doesn't make sense. So split it into two and re-merge. "Teacher gave Fred a low grade" - OK. "Teacher gave I a low grade" - you'd never say that. It's "Teacher gave Fred and me a low grade." Like it's "I hope you'll come and visit Sally and me this summer", not that terrible, faux-educated, illiterate "come and visit Sally and I".

/rant
posted by aqsakal at 12:14 AM on May 28, 2010 [28 favorites]

PS - gramatically, there's nothing wrong with your second suggestion, either. It's only pedantic old farts like me who bother about putting onesself last. And there's nothing silly about your question at all; sometimes you play around with alternatives so long that they all start to look wrong, and you need to turn to someone else to help you back off.
posted by aqsakal at 12:18 AM on May 28, 2010

What ocherdraco said.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:26 AM on May 28, 2010

"That's my favourite song! My sister's too!"

Just out of curiosity, which song is it?
posted by robotot at 12:33 AM on May 28, 2010

The third one is correct. Phrase it like this and it won't feel so awkward anymore:

"That's my sister's--and my--favorite song!"
posted by holterbarbour at 12:36 AM on May 28, 2010

I think there are occasional situations where so few people know the correct grammatical form that it is clearer to use something else that will not jar with them. Hence I will side with ocherdraco: split into two clear sentences.
posted by rongorongo at 12:49 AM on May 28, 2010

I go with "That's my sister's--and my--favorite song!" even if you don't necessarily need the dashes.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 1:01 AM on May 28, 2010

"That's me and my sister's favorite song" is normal colloquial spoken English. (The pronoun "me" comes first, and the possessive is applied to the end of the phrase as in "Bill and Susie's car.") However, it's not proper English.

"My sister and I's" is whacked by pretty much any standards, colloquial or proper.

"My sister's and my favorite song" is technically proper, but hard to parse. You're expecting "and" to coordinate "my sister's" and "my favorite [something's]" [something], until you get to "song" and it doesn't make sense and you have to go back and re-parse it. You can of course break it up the way holterbarbour suggests, but that's only necessary because it's confusing to begin with.

"My and my sister's favorite song" is easier to parse, and sounds more natural to me, but some people will object because it's got the I/me/my part first.

The rules of proper English don't have much to do with making it more intelligible.

So, yeah, what ocherdraco said. If you want to avoid saying something someone will think is ungrammatical and avoid being confusing at the same time, you have to say "It's my sister's favorite song, and mine too" or something like that.
posted by nangar at 1:49 AM on May 28, 2010

More simple: "That's my sister's favorite song and mine too"
posted by knz at 2:48 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

I want to to throw a "mine" into that phrase: That's mine and my sister's favourite song
posted by fatfrank at 4:31 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

The construction involved in "Me and my sister's..." might be more common these days, but it doesn't make it any more acceptable to my ears. There need to be at least some of us who are vigilant in the face of such awful English!! :)

Great question! This is the kind of thing that always trips me up for some reason. I can see myself hesitate and stumble over how to properly say it when it comes up. I'm hopeful that I get it right, though!
posted by fso at 4:38 AM on May 28, 2010

I want to to throw a "mine" into that phrase: That's mine and my sister's favourite song

To my ear, "mine" only works if you phrase it like this: "That my sister's favorite song, and mine too!"

I think yours might fall into the category nangar mentions, of being normal colloquially but not really "proper." I wouldn't use your construction in writing, for instance, although I've heard people use it in speech without assuming they were illiterate.
posted by not that girl at 6:48 AM on May 28, 2010

I'm not sure that you couldn't use the possessive pronoun 'mine', as in 'a favorite of mine'.

.. but to say "That song is a favorite of mine and my sister's" is incorrect because I don't feel it matches the subject correctly since "and my sister's" is unclear.

I believe the most unambiguous way to say it would be 'That is my sister's and my favorite song'

Good question!
posted by mcarthey at 6:51 AM on May 28, 2010

"That's me and my sister's favorite song" is normal colloquial spoken English.

British english, maybe, as in "Gor blimey, that's me favorite song".

Even adding the sister, in benighted east coast America, it would make a significant number of people wince. But also wonder how to get around it.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:25 AM on May 28, 2010

"Me and my sister's favorite song" sounds rightest (if colloquial) to me. And it's grammatically correct, too, if you accept Pirate English as a variant. "It's me favorite song!"
posted by Aquaman at 7:25 AM on May 28, 2010

D'oh! Curse you, IndigoJones!
posted by Aquaman at 7:25 AM on May 28, 2010

It's my sister's favorite song.
It's my favorite song.
My sister and I have the same favorite song.
Therefore:
It's my sister's and my favorite song.
posted by gracedissolved at 7:41 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

Nthing ocherdraco. The entire point of grammar is to make things clearer and easier. However you write or say that sentence, it's going to make people stumble. Recast it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:45 AM on May 28, 2010

I, too, would be inclined to write "That's mine and my sister's favorite song!"
posted by MeiraV at 8:18 AM on May 28, 2010

It's my sister's and my favorite song.
posted by HotToddy at 8:22 AM on May 28, 2010

Some good points made here. Maybe it depends on whether you're saying it or writing it. Hat off to professional expert ocherdraco for getting around the awkwardness and completely re-phrasing the sentence for spoken use. I stand by my own version for correct written English, for example in a CV or a job application.

(Not that you're very likely to be talking about your and your sister's favorite songs in a CV...)
posted by aqsakal at 9:54 AM on May 28, 2010

i always say "me and my sister's favourite ____!"
not grammatically correct (and i was an english major) but somehow it seems to be the one that flows most naturally. my sister and i have a lot of overlap in things/places we looooove so i say it a lot, too.
posted by raw sugar at 9:56 AM on May 28, 2010

"That's mine and my sister's favorite song!"
"My and my sister's favorite song"
"Me and my sister's favorite song"

These are all quite jarring to my ear. I would say "My sister and I love that song." (If I had a sister.)
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 10:00 AM on May 28, 2010

[Sarah]'s favorite song.
[My uncle]'s favorite song.
[The king of Spain]'s favorite song.
[The man in yellow]'s favorite song.
[The tallest woman in the world]'s favorite song.
[Just about everyone in the bar]'s favorite song.
[Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice]'s favorite song.
[This one pretentious friend of mine]'s favorite song.
[That girl who nobody in class can stand]'s favorite song.

The pattern most people seem to follow is, you tack an -'s onto the last word of the noun phrase and leave the rest alone.

If you follow that pattern, you get

[Me and my sister]'s favorite song.

which (to my ears) is also the most natural thing to say if I stop beanplating and just talk normally. Your intuitions may vary.

(Ocherdraco is right too, though, that you can easily dodge the whole issue if you want. If you're losing sleep over this, maybe that's the best thing to do.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:15 AM on May 28, 2010

That is the favorite song of myself and my sister.
posted by gryftir at 10:49 AM on May 28, 2010

Oh, and you asked for the name of the rule? Well, the English -'s possessive marker is what's called a clitic. That's a fancy way of saying "it attaches to an entire phrase, and not to a single word."
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:00 AM on May 28, 2010

"The pattern most people seem to follow is, you tack an -'s onto the last word of the noun phrase and leave the rest alone."

Only something different happens with pronouns -- they get marked for case inside the noun phrase, which is why I can't follow your pattern to create "I's favorite song" or "we's favorite song".

That isn't to say I disagree with you overall, it's just that there seems to be something more complex going on that seems to allow the "me and my friend's" way possible (colloquial, sure, but very commonly heard) in conjunctions only.
posted by kosmonaut at 9:05 PM on May 30, 2010

Unless you're a leprachaun or a pirate, you would never say "That's me favourite song." Therefore, you would never say "That's me and my sister's favourite song."

It's my sister's favourite song.
It's my favourite song.
It's my sister's and my favourite song.

"Me and my sister" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to my ears.
posted by fso at 5:31 AM on June 1, 2010

Here's one way of capturing that data, kosmonaut: "Me" is a pronoun, but the phrase "me and my friend" isn't. (It contains a pronoun, sure; but it isn't a pronoun, any more than I'm a spleen or my house is a toilet.) If you say "Pronouns on their own have special genitive forms; other noun phrases just take -'s at the end of the phrase," that seems to cover everything pretty tidily.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:22 PM on June 16, 2010