Help me buy a sweet 4x4 truck/SUV.
May 27, 2010 10:04 PM Subscribe
I’m considering buying a used truck/SUV but I’m confused by the dizzying array of options.
SUV and truck haters please take a hike. Here is what I’m looking for: basically a used vehicle similar to a Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner minus the expense and ideally with a standard transmission. I’m looking at $7,500 to $15,000 with less than 80K miles. My priorities are: 4x4 (real 4wd not AWD), some decent ground clearance, 4 doors, standard transmission and reliability. Probably a V6, it needs enough power to go up the mountains here in Colorado and crawl in low gear on a rutted jeep road/trail. In general, I do not like nor trust Jeeps. I do like the new FJs but even the used ones are very expensive and I have heard bad things about the driver’s view out the back being impeded. I’ve also considered the Xterras. I’m 6’4” if it matters and this would be my only vehicle. I’m finally in a place where I can take the bus to work so I don’t need to drive much – this would be used for playing in the mountains and desert on the weekends and vacations. I would consider upping my price range if there is good reason. What vehicles am I not thinking of that fit my criteria? What do you have that you are happy with? Is there some SUV or 4 door truck that isn't Toyota but is reliable and good offroad? Where is the brand, age, mileage sweet spot? (Subarus, RAV4, Escapes and others of their ilk are not an option since they aren’t offroad capable enough).
SUV and truck haters please take a hike. Here is what I’m looking for: basically a used vehicle similar to a Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner minus the expense and ideally with a standard transmission. I’m looking at $7,500 to $15,000 with less than 80K miles. My priorities are: 4x4 (real 4wd not AWD), some decent ground clearance, 4 doors, standard transmission and reliability. Probably a V6, it needs enough power to go up the mountains here in Colorado and crawl in low gear on a rutted jeep road/trail. In general, I do not like nor trust Jeeps. I do like the new FJs but even the used ones are very expensive and I have heard bad things about the driver’s view out the back being impeded. I’ve also considered the Xterras. I’m 6’4” if it matters and this would be my only vehicle. I’m finally in a place where I can take the bus to work so I don’t need to drive much – this would be used for playing in the mountains and desert on the weekends and vacations. I would consider upping my price range if there is good reason. What vehicles am I not thinking of that fit my criteria? What do you have that you are happy with? Is there some SUV or 4 door truck that isn't Toyota but is reliable and good offroad? Where is the brand, age, mileage sweet spot? (Subarus, RAV4, Escapes and others of their ilk are not an option since they aren’t offroad capable enough).
Can you please define, "real 4wd" and how it's distinct from AWD?
posted by TheNewWazoo at 10:22 PM on May 27, 2010
posted by TheNewWazoo at 10:22 PM on May 27, 2010
Response by poster: I mean 4 wheel drive that you shift into - where the vehicle is in rear while drive unless you pull a lever or push a button whereby the vehicle enters 4 high. I don't know of any AWD vehicles that have the ground clearance and off road readiness that I desire. Please tell me if I'm wrong.
posted by fieldtrip at 10:30 PM on May 27, 2010
posted by fieldtrip at 10:30 PM on May 27, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you The World Famous. I couldn't explain the mechanical difference but I do know what driving my girlfriend's Subaru is like vs driving trucks/SUVs with 4wd.
posted by fieldtrip at 10:45 PM on May 27, 2010
posted by fieldtrip at 10:45 PM on May 27, 2010
A friend of mine used to have an early nineties vintage Isuzu trooper that we bashed around the mountains at Tahoe to great effect.
posted by defcom1 at 11:28 PM on May 27, 2010
posted by defcom1 at 11:28 PM on May 27, 2010
I'd go with a pre-'04 Tacoma. I lived in LA when I bought mine and it was extremely difficult to find one with a 5-spd and 4wd (everyone there has an auto prerunner). It has been reliable and extremely capable off-road. I'm 6'2" and I have to put the seat all the way back, plus there's no room for big people in the jumpseats and I can just sleep comfortably in the bed (which is also 6'2"). These things may cause problems for you.
The only drawbacks are the need to replace the timing belt every 90k miles and the gas mileage which runs as high as 24mpg and as low as 17 for me (I have the big tire package). I was lucky, because I considered both the FJ (which is poorly designed, IMHO), and the XTerra, both of which would have cost me an extra $1k for the gas-guzzler tax when I imported it back to Canada. They both use more fuel than the Tacoma. Also, the ABS is engaged in 4H, which means that driving at reasonable speed on ice or slick snow is extremely dangerous. If you slide, the brakes will be useless. In 4L, ABS is mercifully disabled.
A nice touch for off-roading is the clutch-interlock disable switch, which alows you to start the engine with the transmission engaged. If you do something extremely stupid on a steep hiil, it can save your life.
posted by klanawa at 11:42 PM on May 27, 2010
The only drawbacks are the need to replace the timing belt every 90k miles and the gas mileage which runs as high as 24mpg and as low as 17 for me (I have the big tire package). I was lucky, because I considered both the FJ (which is poorly designed, IMHO), and the XTerra, both of which would have cost me an extra $1k for the gas-guzzler tax when I imported it back to Canada. They both use more fuel than the Tacoma. Also, the ABS is engaged in 4H, which means that driving at reasonable speed on ice or slick snow is extremely dangerous. If you slide, the brakes will be useless. In 4L, ABS is mercifully disabled.
A nice touch for off-roading is the clutch-interlock disable switch, which alows you to start the engine with the transmission engaged. If you do something extremely stupid on a steep hiil, it can save your life.
posted by klanawa at 11:42 PM on May 27, 2010
I missed your requirement for the four-door. In that case, I'd leave out pre-'04 Tacomas because the bed is too short to be useful.
posted by klanawa at 11:46 PM on May 27, 2010
posted by klanawa at 11:46 PM on May 27, 2010
Best answer: There are lots and lots of vehicles in your price range that will do what you want. Toyota is only one brand in this space, but they cast a long shadow.
I love Toyota 4x4s. I have an '86 4x4 truck that I've owned since 1996 and modified to within an inch of its life, a '98 4x4 4Runner w/220k miles (soon to be for sale), and a just-purchased-this-week 2002 Tacoma Double Cab -- I have big plans for this one. So you could say I'm partial to their brand.
Having spent the last month researching 4Runners and Tacoma Double Cabs, I can tell you a few things about those models:
4Runners: Toyota stopped offering manual transmission 4Runners in 2000, but the ones they made then were excellent (my '98 4Runner is a manual). Comfy seating for four adults, OK cargo capacity (esp. with a roof rack), great off road/in snow. Body-on-frame construction, so very solid. Manual transmissions were offered for both 4 cyl and v6. Used 1999 and 2000 4Runners 4x4's with manual transmissions were going for $7k - $12k on Craigslist.
Tacomas: There are two generations of Tacoma Double Cabs (also called Crew Cabs): 2001-2004 and 2005+
2001-2004 Tacoma Double Cabs: These are hard to find with 4x4, and none of the 2001-4 Tacoma double cabs were offered with manual transmissions, despite the manual tranny being available for regular and extra cab Tacomas*. Grrrrr.... The 4x4 Tacoma Double Cabs of this generation hold their value better than any vehicle I've ever tried to buy; the few I saw were going for $13k - $18k.
* I bought my 2002 with the intention of converting it to manual 'cause I'm a glutton for very involved automotive projects, but from my research they aren't that hard to convert. Please email me if you want more details on how to do this, but for "normal" people these are only available with an automatic trans.
Toyota also made a much more readily available 2wd "PreRunner" version, which was the same chassis and suspension as the 4x4 version, minus the transfer case and front axle assembly. Some of these were offered with a nice Toyota Racing Development (TRD) Off-Road package which included an electric locking rear differential and beefier suspension, making them pretty capable off road for a 2wd vehicle. These are cheaper and more readily available than the same vintage 4x4's, and because they have the 4x4's chassis and suspension they can be converted to true 4x4s without too much anguish. I bought one of these, and that's what I'll be doing to it (2wd -> 4x4 and AT -> MT; yes, I'm a bit nuts. Email me if you want details or links to writeups). These go for $9k-$16k.
2005-current Tacoma Double Cabs: Bigger than the 2001-4 version in every way: bigger motor, bigger wheel base, more interior room, and available in a long bed version if you have LOTS of stuff and people to haul. These were/are available with a manual trans, but they are still pretty expensive. I've seen them as low as $17k for the 4x4 double cab + manual trans, but for the most part they are $19k-$26k. Probably not in your price range.
Anyway, I don't know if the above is helpful, but it at least gives you a sense of your used 4Runner and Tacoma options if you really, really want one with a manual transmission.
posted by mosk at 12:33 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I love Toyota 4x4s. I have an '86 4x4 truck that I've owned since 1996 and modified to within an inch of its life, a '98 4x4 4Runner w/220k miles (soon to be for sale), and a just-purchased-this-week 2002 Tacoma Double Cab -- I have big plans for this one. So you could say I'm partial to their brand.
Having spent the last month researching 4Runners and Tacoma Double Cabs, I can tell you a few things about those models:
4Runners: Toyota stopped offering manual transmission 4Runners in 2000, but the ones they made then were excellent (my '98 4Runner is a manual). Comfy seating for four adults, OK cargo capacity (esp. with a roof rack), great off road/in snow. Body-on-frame construction, so very solid. Manual transmissions were offered for both 4 cyl and v6. Used 1999 and 2000 4Runners 4x4's with manual transmissions were going for $7k - $12k on Craigslist.
Tacomas: There are two generations of Tacoma Double Cabs (also called Crew Cabs): 2001-2004 and 2005+
2001-2004 Tacoma Double Cabs: These are hard to find with 4x4, and none of the 2001-4 Tacoma double cabs were offered with manual transmissions, despite the manual tranny being available for regular and extra cab Tacomas*. Grrrrr.... The 4x4 Tacoma Double Cabs of this generation hold their value better than any vehicle I've ever tried to buy; the few I saw were going for $13k - $18k.
* I bought my 2002 with the intention of converting it to manual 'cause I'm a glutton for very involved automotive projects, but from my research they aren't that hard to convert. Please email me if you want more details on how to do this, but for "normal" people these are only available with an automatic trans.
Toyota also made a much more readily available 2wd "PreRunner" version, which was the same chassis and suspension as the 4x4 version, minus the transfer case and front axle assembly. Some of these were offered with a nice Toyota Racing Development (TRD) Off-Road package which included an electric locking rear differential and beefier suspension, making them pretty capable off road for a 2wd vehicle. These are cheaper and more readily available than the same vintage 4x4's, and because they have the 4x4's chassis and suspension they can be converted to true 4x4s without too much anguish. I bought one of these, and that's what I'll be doing to it (2wd -> 4x4 and AT -> MT; yes, I'm a bit nuts. Email me if you want details or links to writeups). These go for $9k-$16k.
2005-current Tacoma Double Cabs: Bigger than the 2001-4 version in every way: bigger motor, bigger wheel base, more interior room, and available in a long bed version if you have LOTS of stuff and people to haul. These were/are available with a manual trans, but they are still pretty expensive. I've seen them as low as $17k for the 4x4 double cab + manual trans, but for the most part they are $19k-$26k. Probably not in your price range.
Anyway, I don't know if the above is helpful, but it at least gives you a sense of your used 4Runner and Tacoma options if you really, really want one with a manual transmission.
posted by mosk at 12:33 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Personally, I think you are making a mistake totally ruling out Jeeps. The modern TJs and newer Jeeps are plenty reliable, and have proven themselves many times over on the trails you are planning to drive. Since you are looking for four doors, you'd probably want one of the longer wheelbase "unlimited" models to get a little more interior space (older ones had two doors, newer ones had four).
Aside from Jeep, there are basically four decent options: Nissan Xterra, Nissan double cab pickup, Toyota 4Runner, and Tacoma Double Cab. All three are great vehicles. The Xterra and the (newer) Tacoma work great for tall people; the 4Runner, the Nissan pickup, and the (older) Tacomas less ideally so but they are still possible, just not as comfortable. The Hummer H3 is reportedly ok offroad, but they come with a lot of cultural baggage that I don't think you want to carry. And like you say, the FJs are great but have terrible sight lines -- if you are tall, driving one will make you feel like you are looking out through a mail slot, because the windshield is so narrow.
You can buy Rangers cheap, but not only are they less rugged and less reliable, but they have the turning radius of a Grayhound bus. They make a great vehicle for getting you to the trailhead, but much less so for serious offroad use. I drive one in very, very light offroad use every week, and honestly it's pretty crap.
So I'm suggesting the Jeep, the Xterra, and either the Tacoma double cab or the 4Runner (Tacoma if you are raising your price cap and buying newer; 4Runner if you are sticking to your budget and going older -- old Tacomas are overpriced, while you can buy 4Runners cheap all day long). All of those have been redesigned in recent years, so you need to be aware of plus/minus of newer vs older models; all except new 4Runners can easily be found with manual transmissions.
Honestly, more important than the specific model will be finding one that hasn't been hammered offroad by a 16 year old and his buddies. Your ideal truck is one that was owned by a suburban owner who only switched it into 4wd on the highway in a snowstorm. Look underneath at the skidplates and rear differential -- if they are scraped up and/or dented, say "thanks anyway" and keep looking.
posted by Forktine at 6:41 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Aside from Jeep, there are basically four decent options: Nissan Xterra, Nissan double cab pickup, Toyota 4Runner, and Tacoma Double Cab. All three are great vehicles. The Xterra and the (newer) Tacoma work great for tall people; the 4Runner, the Nissan pickup, and the (older) Tacomas less ideally so but they are still possible, just not as comfortable. The Hummer H3 is reportedly ok offroad, but they come with a lot of cultural baggage that I don't think you want to carry. And like you say, the FJs are great but have terrible sight lines -- if you are tall, driving one will make you feel like you are looking out through a mail slot, because the windshield is so narrow.
You can buy Rangers cheap, but not only are they less rugged and less reliable, but they have the turning radius of a Grayhound bus. They make a great vehicle for getting you to the trailhead, but much less so for serious offroad use. I drive one in very, very light offroad use every week, and honestly it's pretty crap.
So I'm suggesting the Jeep, the Xterra, and either the Tacoma double cab or the 4Runner (Tacoma if you are raising your price cap and buying newer; 4Runner if you are sticking to your budget and going older -- old Tacomas are overpriced, while you can buy 4Runners cheap all day long). All of those have been redesigned in recent years, so you need to be aware of plus/minus of newer vs older models; all except new 4Runners can easily be found with manual transmissions.
Honestly, more important than the specific model will be finding one that hasn't been hammered offroad by a 16 year old and his buddies. Your ideal truck is one that was owned by a suburban owner who only switched it into 4wd on the highway in a snowstorm. Look underneath at the skidplates and rear differential -- if they are scraped up and/or dented, say "thanks anyway" and keep looking.
posted by Forktine at 6:41 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
The 05+ Tacoma is prolly what you are looking for, but as Mosk says, they are pricey. I have an 09 Tacoma double cab manual and I got it for ~29k. But it took the dealer a week to find a manual, they are pretty rare.
You might look at the Toyota access cab. They have 4 doors, although the rear doors are suicide doors, it is reasonably spacious on the 05+ Tacomas. I had an 05 access cab and they are going for about 17k here in WI.
I have been exceedingly happy with both of my Tacomas. Like you, I am 6'4". We traded up to the double cab because my son hit his growth spurt at 14 and is now 6'3 and he wanted more space in the back seat. Personally, I prefer the Access Cab - I think it looks better and it is easier for the dogs to get in.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:45 AM on May 28, 2010
You might look at the Toyota access cab. They have 4 doors, although the rear doors are suicide doors, it is reasonably spacious on the 05+ Tacomas. I had an 05 access cab and they are going for about 17k here in WI.
I have been exceedingly happy with both of my Tacomas. Like you, I am 6'4". We traded up to the double cab because my son hit his growth spurt at 14 and is now 6'3 and he wanted more space in the back seat. Personally, I prefer the Access Cab - I think it looks better and it is easier for the dogs to get in.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:45 AM on May 28, 2010
You start out with two Toyotas as your example, and then stipulate "...that isn't Toyota". Are people here on the wrong track recommending Toyotas? Or is it just the additional price premium that has you not leaning that way?
Because I'd recommend a Toyota. I have a 1983 FJ60 (Landcruiser), and that thing just won't quit. They're almost ubiquitous overseas in less developed locations. But its carbureted ca. 100 hp engine pulling 5000 lbs of 25 year old technology may not be for you, given your stated preferences.
Unfortunately for you, the successors to the FJ60 (FJ62, FZJ-80, UZJ-100, etc) don't come stock with a manual. I feel your pain, I like manual transmissions too. It's getting more and more difficult to find cars with manual transmissions, even SUVs and trucks. The later two models listed also went to full time AWD, which is also harder to find something without these days.
Here's a newbie guide for 80 series cruisers and another for 100-series.
I just read that these models are available outside of the US with different trim lines including manual locking and transmissions, so you might well be able to swap one in. Mind emissions requirements, though--some places require you keep the same kind of transmission as originally came with the engine.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:32 AM on May 28, 2010
Because I'd recommend a Toyota. I have a 1983 FJ60 (Landcruiser), and that thing just won't quit. They're almost ubiquitous overseas in less developed locations. But its carbureted ca. 100 hp engine pulling 5000 lbs of 25 year old technology may not be for you, given your stated preferences.
Unfortunately for you, the successors to the FJ60 (FJ62, FZJ-80, UZJ-100, etc) don't come stock with a manual. I feel your pain, I like manual transmissions too. It's getting more and more difficult to find cars with manual transmissions, even SUVs and trucks. The later two models listed also went to full time AWD, which is also harder to find something without these days.
Here's a newbie guide for 80 series cruisers and another for 100-series.
I just read that these models are available outside of the US with different trim lines including manual locking and transmissions, so you might well be able to swap one in. Mind emissions requirements, though--some places require you keep the same kind of transmission as originally came with the engine.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:32 AM on May 28, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks all. I think you are helping me -- I'm still trying to figure out what I want so I'm not completely clear myself. Let me see if I can kind of organize my thoughts:
The comments on getting dogs easier into the Toyota Access Cab is helpful because most of the time it would really be me with one other person and dogs. I had thought the Access cabs would be a pain for dogs (without much room for them inside) so I will have to take another look.
I don't love the most recent generation of Toyota trucks -- even the Tacoma just seems too huge for me now.
While I appreciate the input on older models -- I probably don't want to go any older than a 2000 model year. I should have put that in my original question.
Jeeps freak me out because (especially the Wranglers) they seem really unchanged over the years. And, I live in a city -- there will be highway miles and some city driving in the future. Wranglers, I'm sure, excel in the woods but this vehicle will have to serve a little dual purpose.
I didn't know that the Xterra gets so much worse mileage. I'll have to look into that.
RikiTikiTavi is right...I talk about getting something other than a Toyota -- but, really it is just the cost and that it is hard to find a manual transmission (ie. they don't exist, as Mosk said, after 2000).
What I'm mostly hearing is Toyota or Nissan. Is there anything else out there? I'm wondering if there is something I'm totally not considering like "hey, the Mitsubishi Montero is totally overlooked but it was really great 2003-2007, is much cheaper than Toyota/Nissan and came in a manual transmission." (not actually true for the Montero, I think).
posted by fieldtrip at 8:57 AM on May 28, 2010
The comments on getting dogs easier into the Toyota Access Cab is helpful because most of the time it would really be me with one other person and dogs. I had thought the Access cabs would be a pain for dogs (without much room for them inside) so I will have to take another look.
I don't love the most recent generation of Toyota trucks -- even the Tacoma just seems too huge for me now.
While I appreciate the input on older models -- I probably don't want to go any older than a 2000 model year. I should have put that in my original question.
Jeeps freak me out because (especially the Wranglers) they seem really unchanged over the years. And, I live in a city -- there will be highway miles and some city driving in the future. Wranglers, I'm sure, excel in the woods but this vehicle will have to serve a little dual purpose.
I didn't know that the Xterra gets so much worse mileage. I'll have to look into that.
RikiTikiTavi is right...I talk about getting something other than a Toyota -- but, really it is just the cost and that it is hard to find a manual transmission (ie. they don't exist, as Mosk said, after 2000).
What I'm mostly hearing is Toyota or Nissan. Is there anything else out there? I'm wondering if there is something I'm totally not considering like "hey, the Mitsubishi Montero is totally overlooked but it was really great 2003-2007, is much cheaper than Toyota/Nissan and came in a manual transmission." (not actually true for the Montero, I think).
posted by fieldtrip at 8:57 AM on May 28, 2010
Response by poster: My second to the last comment: I meant that manual transmission in a 4runner doesn't exist after year 2000, as Riki mentioned.
posted by fieldtrip at 8:58 AM on May 28, 2010
posted by fieldtrip at 8:58 AM on May 28, 2010
If you don't want to spend a lot, look at the Suzuki Vitara / Chev Tracker. Real 4WD, good ground clearance, 4 doors, body on frame construction, standard transmission and V6 available. Unfortunately, the newer Grand Vitara has AWD, so you might need to do a little looking to find an older model within your mileage requirements.
posted by ssg at 9:07 AM on May 28, 2010
posted by ssg at 9:07 AM on May 28, 2010
What I'm mostly hearing is Toyota or Nissan. Is there anything else out there?
In the US, if you want a modern serious 4wd vehicle with a stickshift, your choices are Jeep, Toyota, and Nissan. The end.
If you lived somewhere else, you have more choices; if you are willing to try and deal with the cost and difficulty of a grey-market import, you have more choices; and if you are willing to consider older vehicles, you have more choices. But given your restrictions, those are your options.
Like I said, I think you are making a mistake ruling out Jeeps, especially the long-wheelbase version of the Wrangler. But everyone has their preferences, so no harm there other than that you have fewer choices.
posted by Forktine at 11:10 AM on May 28, 2010
In the US, if you want a modern serious 4wd vehicle with a stickshift, your choices are Jeep, Toyota, and Nissan. The end.
If you lived somewhere else, you have more choices; if you are willing to try and deal with the cost and difficulty of a grey-market import, you have more choices; and if you are willing to consider older vehicles, you have more choices. But given your restrictions, those are your options.
Like I said, I think you are making a mistake ruling out Jeeps, especially the long-wheelbase version of the Wrangler. But everyone has their preferences, so no harm there other than that you have fewer choices.
posted by Forktine at 11:10 AM on May 28, 2010
Well, another thought: Are you a gambler? The Land Rover Discovery was superb offroad, and can be found cheap. However, their reliability is at best questionable, and at worst downright embarrassing. Anecdotally, people say that they tend to be either great or total lemons. So, you could pick up a late model Discovery, keep a few thousand in the bank for major repairs, and see how it works out. I don't know how they are for tall drivers, though; you'd need to sit in one to test it out.
Personally, I'd only buy one if I had a shop nearby that specialized in Land Rovers, but any major metro area should have one of those. And remember, this is an option for the person who wants more style and "soul" in their vehicle, and is willing to sacrifice reliability for that.
posted by Forktine at 11:18 AM on May 28, 2010
Personally, I'd only buy one if I had a shop nearby that specialized in Land Rovers, but any major metro area should have one of those. And remember, this is an option for the person who wants more style and "soul" in their vehicle, and is willing to sacrifice reliability for that.
posted by Forktine at 11:18 AM on May 28, 2010
Jeeps are relatively unchanged because the design is exceptional. I'd definitely put a Cherokee on the list. Simple and effective, cheap parts, etc.
Stigma aside, the H3 should definitely be on your list as well. Good drivetrain, decent fuel economy, 5-speed manual available. I've heard mostly good things about it's off-road prowess, and it's a much more modern beast than the XJ. Can't imagine they're real expensive right now, either...
posted by pjaust at 11:25 AM on May 28, 2010
Stigma aside, the H3 should definitely be on your list as well. Good drivetrain, decent fuel economy, 5-speed manual available. I've heard mostly good things about it's off-road prowess, and it's a much more modern beast than the XJ. Can't imagine they're real expensive right now, either...
posted by pjaust at 11:25 AM on May 28, 2010
Land Rovers are comically horrible vehicles. Lovable, supremely comfortable and capable, and absolutely horrible. Only an enthusiast should own one. Let's just get that out there. Do not.
posted by pjaust at 11:28 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by pjaust at 11:28 AM on May 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Forktine: It looks like Jeep has only made the 4dr Wranglers (unlimited) for a few years now. They don't look cheap used....a quick cars.com search results in starting prices of $19-20K used. also, has the reliability really improved? I remember that as being a big concern with Jeeps.
Land Rovers are certainly interesting but their reliability is far too sketchy for me. And, I can only imagine that repairs wouldn't be inexpensive. I guess I'm not a gambler
posted by fieldtrip at 11:29 AM on May 28, 2010
Land Rovers are certainly interesting but their reliability is far too sketchy for me. And, I can only imagine that repairs wouldn't be inexpensive. I guess I'm not a gambler
posted by fieldtrip at 11:29 AM on May 28, 2010
The reliability late in the TJ era was really good. I haven't checked Consumer Reports, but my sense is that the newest generation of wranglers isn't far behind Toyota's current iffy track record. I mean, seriously, if you want cheap and reliable, buy a Honda Fit. None of the vehicles you are considering is going to be that good, and they will all land you with expensive repair bills at some point. But at the same time, Jeep has come miles from the bad old days, and buying one isn't a total crapshoot.
Before Jeep made the current 4-door wrangler, they made a 2-door Unlimited version of the TJ (I don't remember the two-letter code for it, sorry) for two or three years. That will get you more space and better highway manners than the short wheelbase version, and at lower cost than a new 4-door one.
Honestly, I think you should just go test drive a few vehicles and see what fits you well and is fun to drive. You are trying to make a choice on paper, when in reality at least a couple of these options are just not going to feel right to you when you actually drive them. And be honest about your use -- anything we are naming here is fine for mild offroad use. If you really mean serious, jacked-up rock crawling, your options just got a lot narrower; conversely, if you are only going to drive on gravel roads then buy a Subaru and be done with it.
posted by Forktine at 12:10 PM on May 28, 2010
Before Jeep made the current 4-door wrangler, they made a 2-door Unlimited version of the TJ (I don't remember the two-letter code for it, sorry) for two or three years. That will get you more space and better highway manners than the short wheelbase version, and at lower cost than a new 4-door one.
Honestly, I think you should just go test drive a few vehicles and see what fits you well and is fun to drive. You are trying to make a choice on paper, when in reality at least a couple of these options are just not going to feel right to you when you actually drive them. And be honest about your use -- anything we are naming here is fine for mild offroad use. If you really mean serious, jacked-up rock crawling, your options just got a lot narrower; conversely, if you are only going to drive on gravel roads then buy a Subaru and be done with it.
posted by Forktine at 12:10 PM on May 28, 2010
Response by poster: forktine: I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of a used Toyota or Nissan's reliability and anticipated repair bills. From personal experience, I drove the Nissan truck that I mentioned for 10 years from o miles on the odometer to 190K with very little repair costs. I have numerous friends who have had Toyotas with similar experiences. I don't know about other makes which is why I posted this Ask.
You have me curious about the 2-door Unlimited now.
I think you are right about test driving. I'm just trying to figure out what to test drive. This page has a good list: various Toys, Nissans, and maybe a Jeep.
I do need some offroad capabilities--I have a little experience here. I don't need some aftermarket, lifted, modified rock crawling rig. Something more than what a Subaru offers but less than a Rubicon is fine for my purposes. I would have bottomed the hell out of a Subaru (and eventually high centered it) on many roads that I drove my old truck on, for instance and it is seriously cramping my style to currently be driving a car (ie. there are climbing crags I just can't get to, hiking trails I can't get to the trailhead of, camping spots, etc., etc.)
posted by fieldtrip at 12:26 PM on May 28, 2010
You have me curious about the 2-door Unlimited now.
I think you are right about test driving. I'm just trying to figure out what to test drive. This page has a good list: various Toys, Nissans, and maybe a Jeep.
I do need some offroad capabilities--I have a little experience here. I don't need some aftermarket, lifted, modified rock crawling rig. Something more than what a Subaru offers but less than a Rubicon is fine for my purposes. I would have bottomed the hell out of a Subaru (and eventually high centered it) on many roads that I drove my old truck on, for instance and it is seriously cramping my style to currently be driving a car (ie. there are climbing crags I just can't get to, hiking trails I can't get to the trailhead of, camping spots, etc., etc.)
posted by fieldtrip at 12:26 PM on May 28, 2010
Interesting that you mentioned the Montero. I've heard good things about the Montero Sport (which is a completely different model from the Montero, not a trim package): powerful engine, reliable, etc. 2004 models can be had for 8-9K.
posted by willpie at 8:23 PM on May 28, 2010
posted by willpie at 8:23 PM on May 28, 2010
Response by poster: Yes, a neighbor has a Montero Sport and it looks sturdy. I've never known anyone who has had one and driven it offroad though.
Isuzu Trooper?
posted by fieldtrip at 9:04 PM on May 28, 2010
Isuzu Trooper?
posted by fieldtrip at 9:04 PM on May 28, 2010
The Montero is what is sold in the rest of the wold as a Pajero. Solid, very strong, but no support or track record here. The old Troopers are great trucks, but if you are looking that old you have other options that are probably better; the new ones are nothing great. In both cases, they aren't sold any more so buying parts may become chancy at some point.
posted by Forktine at 11:12 PM on May 28, 2010
posted by Forktine at 11:12 PM on May 28, 2010
Response by poster: In case anyone is shopping and ends up at this thread in the future. I ended up going with a 2007 Nissan Xterra Off Road model after many months of research. The Xterra fit me the best, being 6'4", has a manual transmission and the second generation (2005 and newer) have a great 4.0 V6 engine with a lot of pep. Unfortunately, it drinks gas, but that kind of goes without saying.
posted by fieldtrip at 10:16 PM on December 2, 2010
posted by fieldtrip at 10:16 PM on December 2, 2010
« Older How to find out transaction counts for credit... | Good Living Along the Georgia Coast Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
I should have stated that I'm not looking for a large SUV or truck. So, F150s etc. are out. Thanks.
posted by fieldtrip at 10:09 PM on May 27, 2010