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May 17, 2010 12:49 AM Subscribe
How should I refinish my doug fir floors for maximum durability?
I've decided to refinish my doug fir T&G floors. Technically they were never finished to start with but by the time I scrape 60 years of dirt, linoleum, carpet bits and assorted mastics off of them they are going to need the whole sanding, sealing and finishing process. I refinished the closet floors for practice by sanding them 30-220 then sealing and staining with 3 layers of Minwax Satin finish oil based polyurethane and they look nice but it's obvious they wouldn't stand up to much abuse. I'm looking for advice, recommendations, products etc that will make my floors more durable and keep my from weeping with frustration too much during the process!
A few points for consideration:
- I will be renting a 20" orbital pad sander instead of a drum sander to try and avoid putting gouges in the floor during the sanding process
- I'm not going for perfectly smooth and new looking, they are old floors and have some wear and discoloration and that's fine
- but no splinters!
- No major existing damage but there are some pretty good dings in the floor in a couple places and some old wear grooves in the living room. The rooms that were covered by linoleum look practically new
- floors are currently filthy with ground in dirt because the former owners were walking around on bare wood for a couple years.
- 600 ish square feet, living room, kitchen (I know, I know) and hallways.
- the front door opens directly onto the wood floors and we get a lot of snow and rain so I'm worried about water damage
- central air heat, house is very dry most of the year
- I have a big dog with big gigantic feet and claws and a tendency to carry heavy things around and drop them.
- people are going to be walking on my floors in shoes sometimes just because it is the main floor, can't be helped
- I have a sandy yard so sand gets tracked in here a lot
- some areas get a LOT of direct sun
- I would prefer not to stain it because the natural color of the wood in the closets is really pretty.
- had the mastic tested, not asbestos. Not even really glue, probably some kind of "tar" according to the contractor. It's 1960s vintage, is black, has no odor at all and sands off easily but gums up sand paper something wicked. It sometimes attaches to things placed on the floor and peels off cleanly from an entire area, water accelerates this process. Mystery substance, basically.
- I have access to every power tool and attachment known to man via friends.
- I am somewhat handy but not too much. Simple descriptions are good. Descriptions that assume I have never seen a wood floor before are probably better.
- would prefer non shiny finish but realize that might not be a good idea.
I have received a fair bit of advice already but before I embark on this adventure I would really like to hear from some more folks who've refinished their own floors, in particular about discoloration related to removing the existing goop and to making soft floors like fir more durable.
I've decided to refinish my doug fir T&G floors. Technically they were never finished to start with but by the time I scrape 60 years of dirt, linoleum, carpet bits and assorted mastics off of them they are going to need the whole sanding, sealing and finishing process. I refinished the closet floors for practice by sanding them 30-220 then sealing and staining with 3 layers of Minwax Satin finish oil based polyurethane and they look nice but it's obvious they wouldn't stand up to much abuse. I'm looking for advice, recommendations, products etc that will make my floors more durable and keep my from weeping with frustration too much during the process!
A few points for consideration:
- I will be renting a 20" orbital pad sander instead of a drum sander to try and avoid putting gouges in the floor during the sanding process
- I'm not going for perfectly smooth and new looking, they are old floors and have some wear and discoloration and that's fine
- but no splinters!
- No major existing damage but there are some pretty good dings in the floor in a couple places and some old wear grooves in the living room. The rooms that were covered by linoleum look practically new
- floors are currently filthy with ground in dirt because the former owners were walking around on bare wood for a couple years.
- 600 ish square feet, living room, kitchen (I know, I know) and hallways.
- the front door opens directly onto the wood floors and we get a lot of snow and rain so I'm worried about water damage
- central air heat, house is very dry most of the year
- I have a big dog with big gigantic feet and claws and a tendency to carry heavy things around and drop them.
- people are going to be walking on my floors in shoes sometimes just because it is the main floor, can't be helped
- I have a sandy yard so sand gets tracked in here a lot
- some areas get a LOT of direct sun
- I would prefer not to stain it because the natural color of the wood in the closets is really pretty.
- had the mastic tested, not asbestos. Not even really glue, probably some kind of "tar" according to the contractor. It's 1960s vintage, is black, has no odor at all and sands off easily but gums up sand paper something wicked. It sometimes attaches to things placed on the floor and peels off cleanly from an entire area, water accelerates this process. Mystery substance, basically.
- I have access to every power tool and attachment known to man via friends.
- I am somewhat handy but not too much. Simple descriptions are good. Descriptions that assume I have never seen a wood floor before are probably better.
- would prefer non shiny finish but realize that might not be a good idea.
I have received a fair bit of advice already but before I embark on this adventure I would really like to hear from some more folks who've refinished their own floors, in particular about discoloration related to removing the existing goop and to making soft floors like fir more durable.
Best answer: My only advice is to not set your expectations too high. Fir is soft and, short of burying it under 1/4" of epoxy bartop finish (toxic process, prohibitively expensive), it's going to stay soft. It will look far, far better than it does now after you've cleaned and smoothed and finished it, and it will still look better than it does now after it's taken a fair bit of abuse -- but, that abuse will leave its marks.
If 'much better' is good enough, then go ahead. If you don't think this project will feel worthwhile unless the results last for years without showing significant wear despite shoes, dogs, water and sand, then you need to pick a different flooring material.
posted by jon1270 at 3:20 AM on May 17, 2010
If 'much better' is good enough, then go ahead. If you don't think this project will feel worthwhile unless the results last for years without showing significant wear despite shoes, dogs, water and sand, then you need to pick a different flooring material.
posted by jon1270 at 3:20 AM on May 17, 2010
2nding satin poly. Mine are satin finish and are great. My friend refinished hers and chose glossy - it's impossible to keep from looking streaky when she cleans it. (The floors are very dark, so that might add to how well the streaks show up.)
posted by artychoke at 6:39 AM on May 17, 2010
posted by artychoke at 6:39 AM on May 17, 2010
I have refinished many floors in my day, being cheap and having bought a lot of older homes. I have done both hardwood and pine.
I wouldn't do it again, simply because the cost of having a professional do it is so close, to the cost of the supplies--renting the floor machine, especially the sand paper etc. You will go through a lot of paper. A professional can get it done fast and do a fabulous job.
I mean, there is some satisfaction in doing it yourself, just to say you can do it. But the quality of what the professionals do is so superior to what I can do, and the costs are about the same. It is a no brainer for me.
posted by chocolatetiara at 7:05 AM on May 17, 2010
I wouldn't do it again, simply because the cost of having a professional do it is so close, to the cost of the supplies--renting the floor machine, especially the sand paper etc. You will go through a lot of paper. A professional can get it done fast and do a fabulous job.
I mean, there is some satisfaction in doing it yourself, just to say you can do it. But the quality of what the professionals do is so superior to what I can do, and the costs are about the same. It is a no brainer for me.
posted by chocolatetiara at 7:05 AM on May 17, 2010
I'm with chocolatetiara... I'm generally a do-it-yourself-er in all things... but floors? Pay a professional. You'll only save a little bit by doing it yourself (not counting the fact that it's a HUGE pain in the ass). Plus, you never know when something might pop up that makes it an even bigger pain in the ass... which if you pay a pro to do it, it will be their problem.
As an example, I had some floors refinished and it turns out that the original finish was something that is very difficult to remove (I think they said it was "orange shellac"). Even the pros didn't realize it until they actually started the process. It took them twice as much sandpaper and twice as long to do it, but it was all covered in the price they quoted. Had we done it ourselves it probably would have taken forever and far exceeded what we paid them (and what kind of price do you put on not having to deal with the hassle?).
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 7:13 AM on May 17, 2010
As an example, I had some floors refinished and it turns out that the original finish was something that is very difficult to remove (I think they said it was "orange shellac"). Even the pros didn't realize it until they actually started the process. It took them twice as much sandpaper and twice as long to do it, but it was all covered in the price they quoted. Had we done it ourselves it probably would have taken forever and far exceeded what we paid them (and what kind of price do you put on not having to deal with the hassle?).
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 7:13 AM on May 17, 2010
If you're trying to remove stubborn bits of tar/glue, I'd give Goo Gone a shot. It's been known to work miracles, and is safe on wood.
Afterward, your house will smell like oranges, although most people don't consider this a downside.
posted by schmod at 7:15 AM on May 17, 2010
Afterward, your house will smell like oranges, although most people don't consider this a downside.
posted by schmod at 7:15 AM on May 17, 2010
Response by poster: Competent professional refinishing doesn't appear to be a local option, which is why I'm redoing them myself. "Good enough" is perfectly fine but I'd like to prevnt too much damage over the next 5-10 years.
Thanks for the advice so far- I've been told that one way to increase the hardness is to do two coats of glossy finish and then a coat of satin over that. The person who told me that is professional (in another state unfortunately). Has anyone tried that method?
posted by fshgrl at 9:56 AM on May 17, 2010
Thanks for the advice so far- I've been told that one way to increase the hardness is to do two coats of glossy finish and then a coat of satin over that. The person who told me that is professional (in another state unfortunately). Has anyone tried that method?
posted by fshgrl at 9:56 AM on May 17, 2010
- I have a big dog with big gigantic feet and claws and a tendency to carry heavy things around and drop them.
- people are going to be walking on my floors in shoes sometimes just because it is the main floor, can't be helped
- I have a sandy yard so sand gets tracked in here a lot
This right here is your answer. Your floors will not last. I speak from experience--we redid our Douglas Fir floors and five years later ended up putting new floors in, and that's without big gigantic dog feet, dropping heavy things or a sandy yard. If you're going to put any money and time into your floor situation, you should put it into something more durable.
posted by HotToddy at 10:01 AM on May 17, 2010
- people are going to be walking on my floors in shoes sometimes just because it is the main floor, can't be helped
- I have a sandy yard so sand gets tracked in here a lot
This right here is your answer. Your floors will not last. I speak from experience--we redid our Douglas Fir floors and five years later ended up putting new floors in, and that's without big gigantic dog feet, dropping heavy things or a sandy yard. If you're going to put any money and time into your floor situation, you should put it into something more durable.
posted by HotToddy at 10:01 AM on May 17, 2010
I've been told that one way to increase the hardness is to do two coats of glossy finish and then a coat of satin over that.
Don't expect any magic from this. Glossy finishes and matte / satin finishes (of the same family) are very, very similar. It's fine to start with a couple of glossy coats and finish with a satin coat to achieve the look you want, but that's the only reason to do so -- because it gives you better control over the final sheen. It doesn't make the finish any tougher.
posted by jon1270 at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2010
Don't expect any magic from this. Glossy finishes and matte / satin finishes (of the same family) are very, very similar. It's fine to start with a couple of glossy coats and finish with a satin coat to achieve the look you want, but that's the only reason to do so -- because it gives you better control over the final sheen. It doesn't make the finish any tougher.
posted by jon1270 at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2010
I've been told that one way to increase the hardness is to do two coats of glossy finish and then a coat of satin over that.
I missed that. Yeah, that's not a way to increase hardness, it's just proper technique for getting a satin finish (three coats of satin would be too cloudy). The floor that we had to replace after five years? It had tow coats of glossy and one of satin.
posted by HotToddy at 11:18 AM on May 17, 2010
I missed that. Yeah, that's not a way to increase hardness, it's just proper technique for getting a satin finish (three coats of satin would be too cloudy). The floor that we had to replace after five years? It had tow coats of glossy and one of satin.
posted by HotToddy at 11:18 AM on May 17, 2010
Best answer: Here's what I see. You have wood floors, time, money and desire to re-finish them. Go for it! I sanded, stained and sealed the pine floors in our master bedroom and did a stencil pattern around the perimeter as well. I like how they look four years later even with the three big dogs, mud, sand and shoes that have crossed them repeatedly.
You look like you are on the right track. The only things that I might add are, a) use a shop vac to clean up the saw dust over and over and over again before using a tack cloth over and over and over again, and b) that many coats of poly (no matter how many you have applied) is not enough. Six coats, seven coats, go back to the store and get more, will just make it better. Use matte for the first three coats, satin for the next three coats and then decide if you want to go glossy (i didn't) or not. A light hand application of steel wool between coats helps even out any imperfections.
Oh, and has been said above, there is nothing that will keep the floors looking perfect after they start getting traffic. They are wood, not vinyl, so enjoy the wear.
posted by Old Geezer at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2010
You look like you are on the right track. The only things that I might add are, a) use a shop vac to clean up the saw dust over and over and over again before using a tack cloth over and over and over again, and b) that many coats of poly (no matter how many you have applied) is not enough. Six coats, seven coats, go back to the store and get more, will just make it better. Use matte for the first three coats, satin for the next three coats and then decide if you want to go glossy (i didn't) or not. A light hand application of steel wool between coats helps even out any imperfections.
Oh, and has been said above, there is nothing that will keep the floors looking perfect after they start getting traffic. They are wood, not vinyl, so enjoy the wear.
posted by Old Geezer at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2010
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This is a very good call, but keep your eyes open for tiny, concentric spiral patterns that occasionally are made by the 20" orbital in the hands of a non-professional. After the sanding's done, you might go over the floor on your hands and knees to search for these. Smooth them out with a hand-held orbital sander.
As to stains, the doug fir, when poly'ed, will look splendid in its natural state. You're better off with a satin, rather than gloss, finish, IMO--gloss looks overly shiny to my eyes.
I've finished a wideboard pine floor with 6 coats of poly in the past (three is the norm), and it's somewhat sturdier--but not overly so. There may be a product that protects against abuse by dog claws, but in some cases you may need to "re-interpret" the scratches as "antiquing," and re-finish the floor when they get to the point of obnoxiousness.
posted by Gordion Knott at 3:06 AM on May 17, 2010