Ghost Riiiiiiide
May 11, 2010 8:03 AM   Subscribe

My car has died. I live in New York City (Queens) and I need a car. Should I lease? Should I buy? Details inside.

A couple of weeks ago my car died. It sucks, but the car is 16 years old, and it was time for it to go. We need to get a new car, but neither I nor my girlfriend have ever bought a car new (this car was bequeathed to my girlfriend by her grandmother.)

I am not a rich man. I want to get a car that will serve us well, but will not be too expensive. We have to park the car on the street, so it will be exposed to the elements, and I forsee some dings and scratches after a couple of years.

We've been looking at leasing, or maybe buying a certified pre-owned car. We've been scouring Consumer Reports looking for good reliable cars and in the next couple of weeks we will probably be going to the dealership to purchase. However, this is totally uncharted territory for both of us. I am wondering what the advantages are of leasing vs. buying a CPO car. So, Metafilter, what should we do?

Any anecdotal experience with either leasing or buying a CPO car would be very helpful. Feel free to ask me any questions and I'll pop in and answer them.

Thanks.
posted by orville sash to Travel & Transportation around New York, NY (20 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
How often do you drive, do you drive for work, for trips, etc..?
posted by bottlebrushtree at 8:21 AM on May 11, 2010


Keep in mind that when you lease in NYS, you have to carry a level of insurance decided by the person you lease from. We made this mistake and are paying 3x as much for insurance as we normally would because we have to have triple coverage.
posted by iarerach at 8:25 AM on May 11, 2010


How many miles do you drive? What's your budget? Why is leasing attractive to you?
posted by barnone at 8:30 AM on May 11, 2010


My suggestions, get financing first, before you even set foot inside a dealership. My personal opinion is that buying a new car is for suckers. You're better off finding a used car with low mileage. Don't know if they have this in Brooklyn but a lot of my friends here in Washington DC use Zipcars.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:31 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]


CPO cars can be very overrated right now. In some cases (for instance, Toyota), the certification adds very little value to the car (only a 3 month extended comprehensive warranty - the extended powertrain warranty is nearly worthless) with price tag that's exorbitantly high. Although I've never experienced this myself, I have heard many stories of the inspection process being similarly useless and allowing nearly any car through.

For what it's worth, I bought a car able to be certified, but declined the certification in exchange for a rather significant price concession. I'm happy to take a gamble that the transmission won't die within 7/10 years in exchange for a cheaper car.

If you want to be fiscally responsible, leasing is not appropriate for more than a few reasons accessible easily online. If you're planning on keeping this car for more than two years or so, there is almost never a reason to lease. If you could explain why you think leasing is fiscally prudent, we'd be happy to provide more details specific to you. If you feel you can't afford buying, you should consider a cheaper car. Although it sounds scary, used cars really aren't as unreliable and shady as people make them out to be. If you're looking at Consumer Reports, you're already doing pretty well. With a few exceptions that are easy to find, nearly any car made in the last 5-7 years will treat you very well.
posted by saeculorum at 8:37 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]


IF you need a car at all (and like schmod said-think hard about it) buy the cheapest reliable beater you can find, I have older nissan and mazdas are usually the best buy in this category. The car will be pre-dinged, probably a little rust and not worth stealing. Even if you end up having to get a replacement one every couple of years for reliability reasons you will come out ahead money wise from buying a new car or a newer used car. I have found the sweet spot for cheaper beaters to be about 10 years and 100k, keep for 2-5 years depending on car, then sell. With recent car quality getting so much better i might say 10-15 years old and 100-150k, with more for cars in good condition and build quality. BTW i live somewhere were rust isn't a real issue, you may have to adjust for this concern in the Northeast.
posted by bartonlong at 9:18 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]


Mod note: few comments removed - please help the OP with their personal question not just hurl car-ownership stats at them, thank you
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:20 AM on May 11, 2010


1. Find a used car in your budget, color choice, whatever.
2. Test drive it.
3. If you think you want it, negotiate a selling price PENDING you having it checked out by a mechanic of your choice. Used car dealers will let you check the car out overnight to do this.
4. If it passes the inspection, buy. If there are minor issues that your mechanic says needs attention either get the dealer to fix them if they have a service dept, or get an estimate from your mechanic and negotiate the price down to compensate you for the repairs.
5. if there are any deal killers from your mechanic, return the car and keep looking.

4-6 year old cars are much more alike than different these days (across a similar price range.)

The biggest variable is something you usually can't know...how well it was cared for by the previous owners. Make the dealer provide a CarFax report to confirm that it hasn't been involved in any major accidents or recalls. The mechanical inspection will cover the previous maintenance concerns.
posted by COD at 9:20 AM on May 11, 2010


nthing saeculorum that 'certified' used cars are for suckers. They're doing a quick set of inspections and then adding a brief warranty extension at an exorbitant price. Instead, take any car you might buy to your own (trusted, highly competent) mechanic for a paid inspection. If the dealer won't let you do this, walk away.

I just finished reading the excellent Don't Get Taken Every Time so I could help my parents shop for a car. It has a lot of great information, and is well worth reading if you have time to do so.
posted by jon1270 at 9:51 AM on May 11, 2010


Edmunds.com has a series of articles describing the process of buying new and used cars, including how to decide. And they have an article about an undercover writer who got a job at several dealerships and exposes all the horror stories.
posted by CathyG at 10:03 AM on May 11, 2010


If you're buying a used car, get it from somewhere well outside the city. Have a friend do the hunting for you.

As a purchaser of many used cars over the years, I've had exceptionally bad luck with cars owned by east coast city dwellers/commuters. It'll be worth the hassle to look outside your immediate area.
posted by pjaust at 10:11 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]


There are Zipcars in NYC. I always bought used cars from my mechanic (in Brooklyn). As bartonlong says above, they provided the best financial value as far as transportation is concerned. In the end, I hated parking it and now will rent (e.g. zipcar) or take a taxi if I must have a car. This turns out to be even less expensive and less of a hassle all things considered.
posted by Obscure Reference at 10:20 AM on May 11, 2010


Nthing the "If you must own a car, buy an old Japanese sedan"

Shopping for used cars in NYC, I've found there are three kinds available on craigslist:

1) Most common - High mileage (12-15k miles/year or more), heavily used cars. People's daily drivers. Most commonly sold in the suburbs, as NYCers generally don't drive to work, unless they live in the outer sections of the outer boros (or anywhere in Staten Island). The common problems tend to be:
* reliability reputation of Japanese cars result in deferred maintenance issues
* hard life - tough road conditions, a lot of stop & go, hard accelerations, bad potholes, etc.
* stupid modifications. don't get me started on buzzing fart cans or big rear-wing spoilers on the trunk decks of FWD cars. Worse, people expect these "enhancements" to be worth a premium.

2) Rare - Parking lot/street parking queens. The cars that get driven 4,000 miles/year, primarily from one side of the street to the other, as the owners deal with alternate-side parking & haven't realized they don't need a car. Common problems:
* Rust issues from sitting too long
* Dead/worn-out batteries.
* Body/paint issues from years of repeated snowdrifts+salt melting off the car, rather than being cleaned off, as the cars never move if parking rules are suspended.

3) Extremely rare - "OMG, I just moved to NYC 2 months ago, the parking is killing me, I *MUST* sell my car". Up there with centaurs and unicorns barfing rainbows. What you're really hoping for, but will rarely find.

Find a mechanic you trust ahead of time. Make sure they look at the car before you buy it (seller should agree to this, tho coordination may be a challenge). If you can afford to play for time, do so, and walk away from any deal that seems remotely shady. Like anywhere else in the world, expect to pay $500-1000 in maintenance needs almost immediately as you discover things (e.g. new tires on an old car, because the old ones are just, well, old).

There's always the option of going elsewhere and turning the purchase into a road trip.

Good luck!
posted by swngnmonk at 10:24 AM on May 11, 2010


Oh, and in the interim, investigate Zipcar - you might find it solves most of your needs.
posted by swngnmonk at 10:24 AM on May 11, 2010


Burke Leon's The Insider's Guide to Buying a New or Used Car has a chapter on leasing. Even better, there's a page at the front of the book saying that readers of the book are welcome to call him to ask a question. I tested this recently, after I couldn't find an answer, online or in car-buying books, to my specific situation. He was very helpful.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:02 AM on May 11, 2010


Response by poster: Thank you for your suggestions so far.

We drive maybe 10-15k miles a year, but I tend to haul stuff around a lot and we go on out of town trips pretty frequently, so a car us a necessity in spite of relatively low mileage. I suppose my concern about buying a used car is just getting it from sketchy people, but it sounds like CPO is a waste of money. Thanks again.
posted by orville sash at 11:02 AM on May 11, 2010


Response by poster: Zipcar is an option, but it is incredibly inconvenient for us to get to the zipcar location, and unless they plan on opening one reasonably near our house, it will quickly become more trouble than it's worth.
posted by orville sash at 11:09 AM on May 11, 2010


Consider using an auction agent. Give them some parameters -- or even go to the auction with them -- and they will buy and register a car for you, for a $100 or $200 markup over the auction price. Used car lots get their cars from the same source, and go for vastly higher markups.

The key inventory is late model mid-priced sedans coming off lease and off rental; while not warrantied, they will have been inspected and brought up into decent operating condition.
The beautiful thing about cars like that is that no one is a more careful driver than someone who is driving a leased car (due to being slammed for damages or failure to get routine maintenance) and rental cars are constantly maintained and driven surprisingly well. (People slag on rental car abuse, but the reality is that the airport car-renting demographic is so highly prone to safe and responsible driving that their indulging fast acceleration doesn't hurt that much.)

Downside of this is that financing is a bit more complicated, cash, or try to use credit unions and some of the online car loan places which are set up to position you with a check that can cover this.
posted by MattD at 1:46 PM on May 11, 2010


This sounds like a situation I had. May I recommend saving $2-3K and buying an old sedan? At 10K a year you'll get a lot of car... say, something Japanese with 100K miles on it that will last quite awhile. With a car that old, even if you are getting scammed, it's not that much money. You can always ask to have a mechanic inspect it.
posted by zvs at 2:53 PM on May 11, 2010


"If you must own a car, buy an old Japanese sedan"

Make it "If you must own an inexpensive, reliable car that isn't desirable to car thieves, buy a rusty old Toyota sedan." Even old Hondas are theft targets.

If I were in your position, I'd only have these targets: a used Chevrolet/Geo Prism (any year) or if you really want to save money, a fifth-generation (ideally 1998 for fuel injection) Chevy Nova. Both are just rebadged Toyota Corollas with the same features and reliability, with a lower price/resale value because people don't know they're Toyotas. They are the modern-day Japanese equivalent of the 60's and 70's Dodge Darts: ugly, slow, and will run forever. Except that, like the Darts, in the later model years they weren't even ugly or slow.
posted by davejay at 3:49 PM on May 11, 2010


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