Boyfriend not interested
May 6, 2010 12:16 PM Subscribe
How to talk to my partner about sexual fantasies when he’s avoiding the subject? (Kinda NSFW, I guess?)
Too many details, for which I apologize! Unfortunately, the background seems important in this case.
I’ve been seeing someone for a little over a year and a half. I’ve never been in a sexual relationship other than the "vanilla" kind. But more and more I have a lot of fantasies about being adventurous. I’m *not* turned on by the idea of pain, but being held down, or wrists tied, or role-playing in various ways, sound like a lot of fun. (It's not as high on my list of fantasies, but I'd also be cool with role-reversal, too -- tying a guy up, bossing him around, etc.) Basically, I get hot and bothered by the idea of adding mental games to the physical stuff.
Early in my relationship with my boyfriend, we got drunk on a couple of bottles of wine one night, which gave me the courage to mention the fantasies of domination. He seemed cool to talk about it at the time, even turned on by it, but the next day, when we woke up, I made a remark about the hot conversation the night before and he said he didn’t remember the conversation coz he must have blacked out.
I had a strange feeling that he might not be telling the truth, but this was a sensitive subject for me, and there was no reason for him to lie, so I put it down to my mind playing tricks on me.
A couple of months later, I found out that I'd been right. During some semi-hostile teasing, he made a joke about how I was into S&M. I asked him what he was talking about and he told me not to deny it, I'd told him so myself. Whatever he said made it clear that he remembered the conversation he’d supposedly not been able to recall.
I know now that I should have hashed it all out right then, but I was stung -- it felt like a very underhanded, unfair thing for him to do, to pretend to forget the conversation, and then to use it as a sort of weapon to one-up me in a weird conversation that had started out teasingly and then turned a bit hostile. So, instead of saying anything, I simply shut up. (You know, having never explored or voiced these desires before, I’d felt a bit uncertain and embarrassed about discussing them in the first place, and his remark now – along with my consequent realization that he’d faked not remembering the discussion – shut me down completely. I felt really hurt and mortified.)
Fast forward a few months. While I’ve been madly attracted to him since the get-go, the sex, while objectively good, is now leaving me increasingly unenthusiastic. So, I try a different approach. One day he pins my arm down. I make appreciate noises and actually say to him, “I love how it feels when you hold my wrist down.” He holds my wrist down for about three more seconds and then changes positions. I repeat what I’d said, but he (not verbally, but physically) ignores the invitation.
(These three events have actually unfolded over the course of about a year, so please don’t think that the unfolding of events must appear as obvious to him as it does here.)
The upshot is, now I’m feeling not only unsatisfied, but also…disrespected? And resentful. Yes. Like he is deliberately ignoring part of me because he doesn't want to deal with it.
Some people, reading this, will be tempted to say, “You’re not sexually compatible, DTMFA.” But here’s the thing – I’ve never even tried the things I fantasize about! I don’t know if they’re actually satisfying or necessary to me. And I love this man, who has been receptive to all other sensitive and difficult matters I’ve discussed with him. I find his silence on this one topic puzzling. I wonder if he misunderstood me when we were drunk, if he thinks I’m longing for whips and chains instead of a handkerchief around my eyes and wrists. I just don’t know what’s in his head, and since this is the ONLY area in which we have ever encountered real difficulty in communicating, I also wonder what more deeply-seated issues are causing him to prove so unwilling to talk about stuff with me.
So. Communication is the only way to find out. That's why I come to you for advice.
1. How do I broach this subject, when I already tried to explicitly broach it once (albeit when drunk), and implicitly broach it once (albeit VERY indirectly)?
2. He has already ignored me twice, so how do I convey to him the seriousness of my feelings and the potential import of this issue for our relationship?
Do I mention my boredom with our sex life? Part of me thinks, no, don’t do that, that’s cruel, you love him and find him very attractive and saying such a thing can’t go anywhere good. Another part of me thinks, if you have to mention that to get him to pay attention, something else is wrong that adventurous sex won’t fix. Yet another voice says, He’s so attentive to you in every other way, perhaps instead of slamming down ultimatums, you need to open the conversation to exploring why this particular issue makes him shut down, and saying “I’m bored with our sex life” won’t lead to that sort of discussion.
I would love a script. And any other advice. Seriously!
3. I feel disrespected, as I mention above. But if he's not into these fantasies, if he wants straight vanilla sex, then pressuring him into experimenting would be disrespecting him, no? I don't want to do that. How do I walk the line, here?
Too many details, for which I apologize! Unfortunately, the background seems important in this case.
I’ve been seeing someone for a little over a year and a half. I’ve never been in a sexual relationship other than the "vanilla" kind. But more and more I have a lot of fantasies about being adventurous. I’m *not* turned on by the idea of pain, but being held down, or wrists tied, or role-playing in various ways, sound like a lot of fun. (It's not as high on my list of fantasies, but I'd also be cool with role-reversal, too -- tying a guy up, bossing him around, etc.) Basically, I get hot and bothered by the idea of adding mental games to the physical stuff.
Early in my relationship with my boyfriend, we got drunk on a couple of bottles of wine one night, which gave me the courage to mention the fantasies of domination. He seemed cool to talk about it at the time, even turned on by it, but the next day, when we woke up, I made a remark about the hot conversation the night before and he said he didn’t remember the conversation coz he must have blacked out.
I had a strange feeling that he might not be telling the truth, but this was a sensitive subject for me, and there was no reason for him to lie, so I put it down to my mind playing tricks on me.
A couple of months later, I found out that I'd been right. During some semi-hostile teasing, he made a joke about how I was into S&M. I asked him what he was talking about and he told me not to deny it, I'd told him so myself. Whatever he said made it clear that he remembered the conversation he’d supposedly not been able to recall.
I know now that I should have hashed it all out right then, but I was stung -- it felt like a very underhanded, unfair thing for him to do, to pretend to forget the conversation, and then to use it as a sort of weapon to one-up me in a weird conversation that had started out teasingly and then turned a bit hostile. So, instead of saying anything, I simply shut up. (You know, having never explored or voiced these desires before, I’d felt a bit uncertain and embarrassed about discussing them in the first place, and his remark now – along with my consequent realization that he’d faked not remembering the discussion – shut me down completely. I felt really hurt and mortified.)
Fast forward a few months. While I’ve been madly attracted to him since the get-go, the sex, while objectively good, is now leaving me increasingly unenthusiastic. So, I try a different approach. One day he pins my arm down. I make appreciate noises and actually say to him, “I love how it feels when you hold my wrist down.” He holds my wrist down for about three more seconds and then changes positions. I repeat what I’d said, but he (not verbally, but physically) ignores the invitation.
(These three events have actually unfolded over the course of about a year, so please don’t think that the unfolding of events must appear as obvious to him as it does here.)
The upshot is, now I’m feeling not only unsatisfied, but also…disrespected? And resentful. Yes. Like he is deliberately ignoring part of me because he doesn't want to deal with it.
Some people, reading this, will be tempted to say, “You’re not sexually compatible, DTMFA.” But here’s the thing – I’ve never even tried the things I fantasize about! I don’t know if they’re actually satisfying or necessary to me. And I love this man, who has been receptive to all other sensitive and difficult matters I’ve discussed with him. I find his silence on this one topic puzzling. I wonder if he misunderstood me when we were drunk, if he thinks I’m longing for whips and chains instead of a handkerchief around my eyes and wrists. I just don’t know what’s in his head, and since this is the ONLY area in which we have ever encountered real difficulty in communicating, I also wonder what more deeply-seated issues are causing him to prove so unwilling to talk about stuff with me.
So. Communication is the only way to find out. That's why I come to you for advice.
1. How do I broach this subject, when I already tried to explicitly broach it once (albeit when drunk), and implicitly broach it once (albeit VERY indirectly)?
2. He has already ignored me twice, so how do I convey to him the seriousness of my feelings and the potential import of this issue for our relationship?
Do I mention my boredom with our sex life? Part of me thinks, no, don’t do that, that’s cruel, you love him and find him very attractive and saying such a thing can’t go anywhere good. Another part of me thinks, if you have to mention that to get him to pay attention, something else is wrong that adventurous sex won’t fix. Yet another voice says, He’s so attentive to you in every other way, perhaps instead of slamming down ultimatums, you need to open the conversation to exploring why this particular issue makes him shut down, and saying “I’m bored with our sex life” won’t lead to that sort of discussion.
I would love a script. And any other advice. Seriously!
3. I feel disrespected, as I mention above. But if he's not into these fantasies, if he wants straight vanilla sex, then pressuring him into experimenting would be disrespecting him, no? I don't want to do that. How do I walk the line, here?
I would show/tell him a slightly edited version of your question. Maybe he is freaked out by the "whips and chains" stereotype, so don't phrase it like that. Just say:
"I think I would be really into being lightly tied up / having you hold my wrists / other light physical submission during foreplay/sex. I love you, and I trust you, and I would like to try this with you. Maybe it'll be a one-off and I find out I'm not actually that into it, but I'm as certain as I can be - not having tried it - that I would be really turned on by it."
See what he says. If he completely refuses to talk to you about it, and doesn't have a really good reason for doing so (say, sexual assault hang-ups), then I would re-consider whether he's worth your time. If he's game, then hold him to it - but you might try to ratchet up the intensity by asking him to surprise you sometime soon.
I think it would be helpful to do this as part of a general conversation about fantasies, but don't go in with a quid pro quo / alternating days mindset (that will be unsatisfying to both people) and I wouldn't say anything about your current sex life being subpar, especially because you don't actually know how this will all turn out.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 12:31 PM on May 6, 2010
"I think I would be really into being lightly tied up / having you hold my wrists / other light physical submission during foreplay/sex. I love you, and I trust you, and I would like to try this with you. Maybe it'll be a one-off and I find out I'm not actually that into it, but I'm as certain as I can be - not having tried it - that I would be really turned on by it."
See what he says. If he completely refuses to talk to you about it, and doesn't have a really good reason for doing so (say, sexual assault hang-ups), then I would re-consider whether he's worth your time. If he's game, then hold him to it - but you might try to ratchet up the intensity by asking him to surprise you sometime soon.
I think it would be helpful to do this as part of a general conversation about fantasies, but don't go in with a quid pro quo / alternating days mindset (that will be unsatisfying to both people) and I wouldn't say anything about your current sex life being subpar, especially because you don't actually know how this will all turn out.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 12:31 PM on May 6, 2010
1. How do I broach this subject, when I already tried to explicitly broach it once (albeit when drunk), and implicitly broach it once (albeit VERY indirectly)?
You try it sober and directly this time. "Sweetie, I need to talk with you about something important. I've really been wanting to try some light domination during sex. I think it's incredibly hot when you hold my hands down, and I think I'd like being blindfolded or tied up, too. I'm also open to the possibility of switching. I feel like I've tried to bring this up topic before, but we haven't really talked about it directly. I need to hear how you feel, because I only want to do this if you're into it, or at least willing to give it a try. So what do you think?"
posted by ottereroticist at 12:33 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
You try it sober and directly this time. "Sweetie, I need to talk with you about something important. I've really been wanting to try some light domination during sex. I think it's incredibly hot when you hold my hands down, and I think I'd like being blindfolded or tied up, too. I'm also open to the possibility of switching. I feel like I've tried to bring this up topic before, but we haven't really talked about it directly. I need to hear how you feel, because I only want to do this if you're into it, or at least willing to give it a try. So what do you think?"
posted by ottereroticist at 12:33 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
1. How do I broach this subject, when I already tried to explicitly broach it once (albeit when drunk), and implicitly broach it once (albeit VERY indirectly)?
I think you're going to have to be brave here and just come out and ask for what you want, while sober (so he can't claim that he blacked out). And try it during a non-sexual situation, too. I find that these conversations are a little easier when you're doing something in addition to talking--cooking, driving together. Say something like this:
"Hey, hon, I wanted to tell you about something I'd love to try. I'd love to be blindfolded or held down sometime. I think that stuff is really hot. What do you think?"
2. He has already ignored me twice, so how do I convey to him the seriousness of my feelings and the potential import of this issue for our relationship?
Tell him! "Sexual exploration is really important to me. It's cool if you like things a little more plain, or if it feels goofy at first, but I'd love to make trying this a priority, if that's okay with you."
Do I mention my boredom with our sex life?
I wouldn't, yet. See how he reacts to the suggestion of actually implementing these things, first.
3. I feel disrespected, as I mention above. But if he's not into these fantasies, if he wants straight vanilla sex, then pressuring him into experimenting would be disrespecting him, no? I don't want to do that. How do I walk the line, here?
Asking isn't pressuring. If he says no, I think it's reasonable to ask for a reason--you don't have to be demanding, but really getting to the root of his feelings, and yours, is a really good idea. Some people are just uncomfortable about the idea of forceful sex--it could be because he's been taught to never be forceful with a woman; it could be because he doesn't like what it says about him, or you (that he's a player, that you're a bad girl). These are valid feelings, of course. But they should be explored together, because otherwise, these attitudes are likely to just come out in hurtful ways, at inopportune times--as you've already experienced.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:35 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think you're going to have to be brave here and just come out and ask for what you want, while sober (so he can't claim that he blacked out). And try it during a non-sexual situation, too. I find that these conversations are a little easier when you're doing something in addition to talking--cooking, driving together. Say something like this:
"Hey, hon, I wanted to tell you about something I'd love to try. I'd love to be blindfolded or held down sometime. I think that stuff is really hot. What do you think?"
2. He has already ignored me twice, so how do I convey to him the seriousness of my feelings and the potential import of this issue for our relationship?
Tell him! "Sexual exploration is really important to me. It's cool if you like things a little more plain, or if it feels goofy at first, but I'd love to make trying this a priority, if that's okay with you."
Do I mention my boredom with our sex life?
I wouldn't, yet. See how he reacts to the suggestion of actually implementing these things, first.
3. I feel disrespected, as I mention above. But if he's not into these fantasies, if he wants straight vanilla sex, then pressuring him into experimenting would be disrespecting him, no? I don't want to do that. How do I walk the line, here?
Asking isn't pressuring. If he says no, I think it's reasonable to ask for a reason--you don't have to be demanding, but really getting to the root of his feelings, and yours, is a really good idea. Some people are just uncomfortable about the idea of forceful sex--it could be because he's been taught to never be forceful with a woman; it could be because he doesn't like what it says about him, or you (that he's a player, that you're a bad girl). These are valid feelings, of course. But they should be explored together, because otherwise, these attitudes are likely to just come out in hurtful ways, at inopportune times--as you've already experienced.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:35 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
i would not say that you are "bored" - that will bruise his ego and possibly ruin your relationship. i would sit him down, while sober, and say "hey, i know we've teased around it a few times - but i've been watching porn/reading stories/fantasizing about how hot it would be if you held me down while we were fucking." don't give him a chance to avoid the conversation. i know that rejection is hard, especially rejection from your lover - but the only thing you can do at this point is to be direct.
posted by nadawi at 12:36 PM on May 6, 2010
posted by nadawi at 12:36 PM on May 6, 2010
I make appreciate noises and actually say to him, “I love how it feels when you hold my wrist down.” He holds my wrist down for about three more seconds and then changes positions.
...thereby maintaining his dominance, which is what you want, right? (That dom/sub stuff is tricky!)
It's also possible that he's just not that into domination.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:40 PM on May 6, 2010
...thereby maintaining his dominance, which is what you want, right? (That dom/sub stuff is tricky!)
It's also possible that he's just not that into domination.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:40 PM on May 6, 2010
oh, and as a slight aside - when looking at beginner bondage - stay away from scarves, stockings, and belts. you should be able to find a nice set of cloth/neoprene cuffs with velcro at adult bookstores/novelty shops that won't set you back more than $20. they're good for people just starting out. their comfy, safe, and easy to undo.
posted by nadawi at 12:41 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 12:41 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
You should sit down and have a talk about your fantasies, tell him what turns you on and ask him what turns him on. That conversation should take place outside of sex and alcohol and anything else and just be a conversation to understand what you both want and what your limits are.
If he knows what you're interested in and he doesn't want to do those things with you, he may either A. not be into those things or B. be interested but not be into doing those things with you or C. not be ready to explore them/be nervous about exploring them.
Keep in mind, it's entirely possible for someone to not only not be interested in doing something sexually, but to be turned off by it. If it's something you like doing, and your partner doesn't, you may want to consider whether you can work out an arrangement to do this activity outside of your relationship. If you're interested in that route, it's very important that you make it clear you find your sex life unfulfilling without that part in it. But be careful that he doesn't start doing things only because you like them - you want all bdsm to be consensual and mutual and it won't be any fun anyway if he's not really into it himself.
Everyone's notion of what's fun in bed is different - and so imagine if he said to you "I want you to put bananas on my face and throw kittens at my feet." It's possible that your request sounds as odd to him as that. If not, there's B and C above.
posted by jardinier at 12:43 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
If he knows what you're interested in and he doesn't want to do those things with you, he may either A. not be into those things or B. be interested but not be into doing those things with you or C. not be ready to explore them/be nervous about exploring them.
Keep in mind, it's entirely possible for someone to not only not be interested in doing something sexually, but to be turned off by it. If it's something you like doing, and your partner doesn't, you may want to consider whether you can work out an arrangement to do this activity outside of your relationship. If you're interested in that route, it's very important that you make it clear you find your sex life unfulfilling without that part in it. But be careful that he doesn't start doing things only because you like them - you want all bdsm to be consensual and mutual and it won't be any fun anyway if he's not really into it himself.
Everyone's notion of what's fun in bed is different - and so imagine if he said to you "I want you to put bananas on my face and throw kittens at my feet." It's possible that your request sounds as odd to him as that. If not, there's B and C above.
posted by jardinier at 12:43 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Hey, I want to try something I read about on Ask Metafilter that sounded really fun. I want you to send me a link to a story or photo of something online that you think is really hot. Then I'll send one to you, and we can keep trading back and forth."
This is nice because:
* You're starting a larger dialogue about both of your likes and dislikes.
* He gets an opportunity to tell you about his interests as well (you might be surprised).
* There is less fear of rejection when you're not staring each other down as you introduce these things.
* It gives him an opportunity to consider these things alone and possibly grow to like the idea.
* It's playful, not confrontational.
* Many people like the idea of getting hot emails from their significant other
posted by the jam at 1:16 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is nice because:
* You're starting a larger dialogue about both of your likes and dislikes.
* He gets an opportunity to tell you about his interests as well (you might be surprised).
* There is less fear of rejection when you're not staring each other down as you introduce these things.
* It gives him an opportunity to consider these things alone and possibly grow to like the idea.
* It's playful, not confrontational.
* Many people like the idea of getting hot emails from their significant other
posted by the jam at 1:16 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
One day he pins my arm down. I make appreciate noises and actually say to him, “I love how it feels when you hold my wrist down.” He holds my wrist down for about three more seconds and then changes positions. I repeat what I’d said, but he (not verbally, but physically) ignores the invitation.
Not saying this is necessarily the issue in your case, but this kind of shit personally drives me up a fucking wall. If I'm already in the process of doing something you want, then your gentle, utterly transparent "reminders" will be seen as nagging. And I personally find there's nothing that will get me to stop doing something faster than nagging.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:23 PM on May 6, 2010
Not saying this is necessarily the issue in your case, but this kind of shit personally drives me up a fucking wall. If I'm already in the process of doing something you want, then your gentle, utterly transparent "reminders" will be seen as nagging. And I personally find there's nothing that will get me to stop doing something faster than nagging.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:23 PM on May 6, 2010
If I'm already in the process of doing something you want, then your gentle, utterly transparent "reminders" will be seen as nagging. And I personally find there's nothing that will get me to stop doing something faster than nagging.
Really? Men all over the world bitch about not knowing what women want in bed, and here, a woman actually clearly stated that she liked something, and your reaction, instead of finding other ways to do it, more and often, in the hopes that it will get you both laid more and often and more enthusiastically, is to NOT do it?
Really? This BOTHERS you?? If I was doing something and the guy I was with said "oh, god, that makes me hot," I'd - do it more! I'd find other ways to do it! I would be OVERJOYED and think THANK YOU I HAVE A KEY TO MALE SEXUALITY!!!! woo!
That's the complete opposite of what I've ever heard from every guy I've ever been friends with or close enough to to talk about sex objectively.
OP: I once knew a guy that I almost dated - we were friends - and the thing that made it clear to me that I should never ever try to take it further was when he was talking about a woman he was dating, who wasn't shy sexually - his response was "Women who like sex are too much work." he didn't mean that he liked rape, but he was too immature to think of sex as wanting to please the other person as much as it was about pleasing himself. There are guys who think like that, who get turned off or nasty (like your teasing incident) when women try to be assertive sexually. I know because I have dated them.
posted by micawber at 1:31 PM on May 6, 2010 [27 favorites]
Really? Men all over the world bitch about not knowing what women want in bed, and here, a woman actually clearly stated that she liked something, and your reaction, instead of finding other ways to do it, more and often, in the hopes that it will get you both laid more and often and more enthusiastically, is to NOT do it?
Really? This BOTHERS you?? If I was doing something and the guy I was with said "oh, god, that makes me hot," I'd - do it more! I'd find other ways to do it! I would be OVERJOYED and think THANK YOU I HAVE A KEY TO MALE SEXUALITY!!!! woo!
That's the complete opposite of what I've ever heard from every guy I've ever been friends with or close enough to to talk about sex objectively.
OP: I once knew a guy that I almost dated - we were friends - and the thing that made it clear to me that I should never ever try to take it further was when he was talking about a woman he was dating, who wasn't shy sexually - his response was "Women who like sex are too much work." he didn't mean that he liked rape, but he was too immature to think of sex as wanting to please the other person as much as it was about pleasing himself. There are guys who think like that, who get turned off or nasty (like your teasing incident) when women try to be assertive sexually. I know because I have dated them.
posted by micawber at 1:31 PM on May 6, 2010 [27 favorites]
One thing you want to keep in mind is that when you are having this conversation, you are putting him at a big disadvantage. You have thought about this a lot (good for you!), but he probably hasn't gone past being scared of it. I think that after you broach the subject, you need to be prepared to help facilitate him asking questions.
posted by plinth at 1:38 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by plinth at 1:38 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
The disagreement between the POV that suggests talking and asking is good the POV that suggests it isn't is a perfect example of how people's sexual tastes differ. To each their own! Some people find talking in bed hot others don't. There isn't a right answer there... and no one person's personal experience describes what 'all men' or 'all women' want.
posted by jardinier at 1:59 PM on May 6, 2010
posted by jardinier at 1:59 PM on May 6, 2010
Others have answered other parts well but...
But if he's not into these fantasies, if he wants straight vanilla sex, then pressuring him into experimenting would be disrespecting him, no?
No. You're just asking not pressuring. He may be resistant to it because he's uncomfortable with it for some reason, but if you're brave and ask for what you want and he still just wants straight vanilla sex, he's probably boring. Good partners get turned on by turning their lovers on and will do just about anything if asked. Other kinds of people don't deserve sex, or at least, they don't deserve your honest attempts to make sex fun. Boy needs to wise up, or you're going to lose interest. Perhaps he knows that but doesn't know how to start seriously talking about it and will welcome the opportunity to discuss your needs. Perhaps he's a judgmental idiot who can't handle the idea of a woman being kinky.
Don't miss the chance to find out--act now! Tell him what you need him to do.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:27 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
But if he's not into these fantasies, if he wants straight vanilla sex, then pressuring him into experimenting would be disrespecting him, no?
No. You're just asking not pressuring. He may be resistant to it because he's uncomfortable with it for some reason, but if you're brave and ask for what you want and he still just wants straight vanilla sex, he's probably boring. Good partners get turned on by turning their lovers on and will do just about anything if asked. Other kinds of people don't deserve sex, or at least, they don't deserve your honest attempts to make sex fun. Boy needs to wise up, or you're going to lose interest. Perhaps he knows that but doesn't know how to start seriously talking about it and will welcome the opportunity to discuss your needs. Perhaps he's a judgmental idiot who can't handle the idea of a woman being kinky.
Don't miss the chance to find out--act now! Tell him what you need him to do.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:27 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
He may be resistant to it because he's uncomfortable with it for some reason, but if you're brave and ask for what you want and he still just wants straight vanilla sex, he's probably boring. Good partners get turned on by turning their lovers on and will do just about anything if asked.
What what?
If he's vanilla and not into what she is, that's perfectly valid. That's not to say that they shouldn't talk about it, but he isn't necessarily a "judgmental idiot."
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:29 PM on May 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
What what?
If he's vanilla and not into what she is, that's perfectly valid. That's not to say that they shouldn't talk about it, but he isn't necessarily a "judgmental idiot."
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:29 PM on May 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
2 more things: 1. The answer to this:
Do I mention my boredom with our sex life?
...is tricky. I'd say no though, just stick to what you want him to do and if he doesn't get it or is mean again let him know where that's going to get him eventually.
and 2. I apologize for assuming that you're a woman- it doesn't give any indication in your post that you're a hetero couple.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:32 PM on May 6, 2010
Do I mention my boredom with our sex life?
...is tricky. I'd say no though, just stick to what you want him to do and if he doesn't get it or is mean again let him know where that's going to get him eventually.
and 2. I apologize for assuming that you're a woman- it doesn't give any indication in your post that you're a hetero couple.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:32 PM on May 6, 2010
this kind of shit personally drives me up a fucking wall. If I'm already in the process of doing something you want, then your gentle, utterly transparent "reminders" will be seen as nagging. And I personally find there's nothing that will get me to stop doing something faster than nagging.
What? I think your reaction is the exception, not the norm. I love to hear that whatever I am doing is being appreciated and enjoyed. This seems to be a very uncharitable read as to what she is doing in bed. "Ooh, that feels good, don't stop!" isn't nagging!
As to how to bring it up, rather than saying that you're bored with your sex life (ouch), phrase it in positive terms. Although it may be best to do it during non-sexy times, I would do it when you're ramping up to have sex. You can say something like, "you know, hon, I'm embarrassed to admit it but I was fantasizing about you a lot today". Then he says "oh yeah? What were you thinking about?". Then you say, "remember that time when you held me down when we were doing it? I couldn't stop thinking about it!".
Now, based on his reaction, you can proceed. Does he change the topic or get up to do the dishes? He has a problem with what you want. Does he stay there and kind of encourage you to go into more detail? He may just be shy talking about it.
posted by amicamentis at 2:37 PM on May 6, 2010
What? I think your reaction is the exception, not the norm. I love to hear that whatever I am doing is being appreciated and enjoyed. This seems to be a very uncharitable read as to what she is doing in bed. "Ooh, that feels good, don't stop!" isn't nagging!
As to how to bring it up, rather than saying that you're bored with your sex life (ouch), phrase it in positive terms. Although it may be best to do it during non-sexy times, I would do it when you're ramping up to have sex. You can say something like, "you know, hon, I'm embarrassed to admit it but I was fantasizing about you a lot today". Then he says "oh yeah? What were you thinking about?". Then you say, "remember that time when you held me down when we were doing it? I couldn't stop thinking about it!".
Now, based on his reaction, you can proceed. Does he change the topic or get up to do the dishes? He has a problem with what you want. Does he stay there and kind of encourage you to go into more detail? He may just be shy talking about it.
posted by amicamentis at 2:37 PM on May 6, 2010
If the idea of being frank and direct while sober to his face freaks you out (oh hon, I understand...right down to the little details), you might consider writing a lengthy and honest letter. I know, I know, that sounds avoidant, and it is if you think it alone will suffice--but if you use it as a springboard, the opener, it might help you. You'll be able to reflect on how exactly you want to word your feelings without worrying you'll chicken out and not be clear, which I found tremendously helpful. And that way, you can explain honestly not only what you might have in mind and what would get you going, but also clarify what you AREN'T thinking about, and head off assumptions on his part at the pass. And also explain your feelings, and be as naked emotionally as you can muster re: how his rejection or teasing or generalizations or whatever make you feel.
Also, this is a really good comment about why roleplaying doesn't have to be as ridiculous as many people tend to envision it is, and maybe the seed of that comment is something you could explain to your partner?
posted by ifjuly at 3:18 PM on May 6, 2010
Also, this is a really good comment about why roleplaying doesn't have to be as ridiculous as many people tend to envision it is, and maybe the seed of that comment is something you could explain to your partner?
posted by ifjuly at 3:18 PM on May 6, 2010
Watch this movie with him and tell him you may want to try it?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188453/
posted by yoyo_nyc at 3:26 PM on May 6, 2010
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188453/
posted by yoyo_nyc at 3:26 PM on May 6, 2010
If he's vanilla and not into what she is, that's perfectly valid.
I take the tack that Dan Savage does--a good/giving/game partner, which should be the standard, not the exception, will do anything (within common sense limits) that they are asked to do and are physically capable of. So no, 'not being into it' is not a valid excuse. He needs to cowboy up and do what it takes to keep it interesting. Otherwise, she should find someone who isn't too uptight to satisfy her.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:27 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I take the tack that Dan Savage does--a good/giving/game partner, which should be the standard, not the exception, will do anything (within common sense limits) that they are asked to do and are physically capable of. So no, 'not being into it' is not a valid excuse. He needs to cowboy up and do what it takes to keep it interesting. Otherwise, she should find someone who isn't too uptight to satisfy her.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:27 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
"During some semi-hostile teasing, he made a joke about how I was into S&M. I asked him what he was talking about and he told me not to deny it, I'd told him so myself."
This, to me, is particularly interesting. I'm not sure what semi-hostile teasing is. Does that mean playing? Or does that mean something negative, like fighting?
Your boyfriend wouldn't just randomly say something like that. There has to be a reason for it. I find myself wondering if he was trying to open the door to some different sexy play that he's not yet comfortable with... or... was he fighting and possibly implying that the relationship might not work out because you're into stuff that he isn't OK with.
You are going to have to talk about that stuff with him, and by that, I mean an actual conversation where the topic is specifically discussed, not hinted at.
Another thing you could try is actually guiding him in bed. Rather than just going through the motions and having your usual sex, try telling him exactly what you'd like him to do. Talk him through it step by step and find out what he's comfortable with. Again, don't hint. Come right out and say it. If you want him to take you by the wrists and hold you down, tell him "take me by the wrists, hold me down and don't let go."
posted by 2oh1 at 3:57 PM on May 6, 2010
This, to me, is particularly interesting. I'm not sure what semi-hostile teasing is. Does that mean playing? Or does that mean something negative, like fighting?
Your boyfriend wouldn't just randomly say something like that. There has to be a reason for it. I find myself wondering if he was trying to open the door to some different sexy play that he's not yet comfortable with... or... was he fighting and possibly implying that the relationship might not work out because you're into stuff that he isn't OK with.
You are going to have to talk about that stuff with him, and by that, I mean an actual conversation where the topic is specifically discussed, not hinted at.
Another thing you could try is actually guiding him in bed. Rather than just going through the motions and having your usual sex, try telling him exactly what you'd like him to do. Talk him through it step by step and find out what he's comfortable with. Again, don't hint. Come right out and say it. If you want him to take you by the wrists and hold you down, tell him "take me by the wrists, hold me down and don't let go."
posted by 2oh1 at 3:57 PM on May 6, 2010
I take the tack that Dan Savage does--a good/giving/game partner, which should be the standard, not the exception, will do anything (within common sense limits) that they are asked to do and are physically capable of. So no, 'not being into it' is not a valid excuse. He needs to cowboy up and do what it takes to keep it interesting. Otherwise, she should find someone who isn't too uptight to satisfy her.
I agree that this might not be the most ideal match for OP based on what she's told us. However, I think that advising her that those who are into vanilla sex are bad partners, boring, undeserving of sex, and judgmental idiots in no way helps her figure out respectful and productive ways of communicating with him about a topic that might be new and intimidating for both of them.
Assuming the worst about him, going into the situation with an air of superiority and/or disdain because of things that may or may not be true (about him, regardless of whether he's vanilla, but also about other people who generally aren't comfortable with certain sexual acts) isn't going to make for a very fair--or likely happy--conversation, any more than going into it drunk would.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:33 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I agree that this might not be the most ideal match for OP based on what she's told us. However, I think that advising her that those who are into vanilla sex are bad partners, boring, undeserving of sex, and judgmental idiots in no way helps her figure out respectful and productive ways of communicating with him about a topic that might be new and intimidating for both of them.
Assuming the worst about him, going into the situation with an air of superiority and/or disdain because of things that may or may not be true (about him, regardless of whether he's vanilla, but also about other people who generally aren't comfortable with certain sexual acts) isn't going to make for a very fair--or likely happy--conversation, any more than going into it drunk would.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:33 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Though the ways you've brought this up (while drunk; while having sex) are not the best, he does seem a bit obtuse about this. He got the hint but he's not acting on it.
Why this is, however, we can't know from your story; you're going to have to ask. You two need to have a way of talking about what you like sexually.
I think you're right that talking about "boredom" in bed is only going to create defensiveness. On the other hand I think most men would be thrilled and titillated by their partner saying "There's something I want to try in bed with you."
posted by zompist at 4:52 PM on May 6, 2010
Why this is, however, we can't know from your story; you're going to have to ask. You two need to have a way of talking about what you like sexually.
I think you're right that talking about "boredom" in bed is only going to create defensiveness. On the other hand I think most men would be thrilled and titillated by their partner saying "There's something I want to try in bed with you."
posted by zompist at 4:52 PM on May 6, 2010
PhoBWanKenobi
dont disagree with any of that...just trying to make sure she realizes that if he refuses to even try doing what she's into, some people would in fact believe that makes him a giant loser. I fully recommend her going into it with a positive, 'hey lets try this it might be fun!' attitude and that she should fully expect to be having mildly kinky bedroom times lickety split.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:04 PM on May 6, 2010
dont disagree with any of that...just trying to make sure she realizes that if he refuses to even try doing what she's into, some people would in fact believe that makes him a giant loser. I fully recommend her going into it with a positive, 'hey lets try this it might be fun!' attitude and that she should fully expect to be having mildly kinky bedroom times lickety split.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:04 PM on May 6, 2010
Agreeing with zompist. There's a principle I have heard that goes "you have to ask for what you want; if you don't you -might- get what you want but you -might- get what someone else wants".
zompist flirts with this in the first graph, but maybe I can make it more explicit: if it is awkward for you to ask for what you want when you are together but not under the influence of strong liquor or strong emotion then that is the aspect of your relationship I would work on first. Negotiating about sex play when neither of you is "in role" is a cardinal principle of getting what you want, and I suspect your boyfriend realizes this without necessarily having the words for it - therefore you are negotiating "in role" and it doesn't count the same. Your ability to bring this up straightforwardly and his to hear and answer from his heart are important and if either of you has any reticence about it then that is the overarching issue, not the specifics of play.
posted by jet_silver at 8:59 PM on May 6, 2010
zompist flirts with this in the first graph, but maybe I can make it more explicit: if it is awkward for you to ask for what you want when you are together but not under the influence of strong liquor or strong emotion then that is the aspect of your relationship I would work on first. Negotiating about sex play when neither of you is "in role" is a cardinal principle of getting what you want, and I suspect your boyfriend realizes this without necessarily having the words for it - therefore you are negotiating "in role" and it doesn't count the same. Your ability to bring this up straightforwardly and his to hear and answer from his heart are important and if either of you has any reticence about it then that is the overarching issue, not the specifics of play.
posted by jet_silver at 8:59 PM on May 6, 2010
So no, 'not being into it' is not a valid excuse. He needs to cowboy up and do what it takes to keep it interesting. Otherwise, she should find someone who isn't too uptight to satisfy her.
I disagree totally. If I'm not into something (as compared to being neutral or slightly bored by it), I sure as shit am not going to do it for you, no matter how often that "good giving game" shtick gets repeated. Not being into [sexual activity X] doesn't make you uptight or frigid or whatever -- it makes you somebody who isn't into that activity. There are a huge range of sexual activities that aren't illegal or harmful -- and that actively turn me off. I'm not going to do them no matter how much I love you. That doesn't make me less of a sexual being, or a big loser -- it makes me somebody who is honest about his sexuality and confident enough to say both yes and no as required.
Having just said that, I do think that the OP needs to cowboy/girl up and, while sober and not in the bedroom, find a way to clearly communicate that she wants to begin gently exploring her fantasy life. She needs to know that he might well not be into it -- and that he might say that he is cool with it, but later turn out not to be, at all. And it might turn out that he gets all excited by the kink, while she decides that the fantasy is fun but the reality isn't. There's not a clear, predetermined outcome to this, and it conceivably could backfire in a whole bunch of ways.
There are a lot of guys who are not comfortable with playing a dominant role in the bedroom, and that's cool. If that's the case with him, she either needs to find another way to fulfill those fantasies, find another partner, or live without that aspect of her sexuality in exchange for the other things this relationship offers.
posted by Forktine at 10:22 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I disagree totally. If I'm not into something (as compared to being neutral or slightly bored by it), I sure as shit am not going to do it for you, no matter how often that "good giving game" shtick gets repeated. Not being into [sexual activity X] doesn't make you uptight or frigid or whatever -- it makes you somebody who isn't into that activity. There are a huge range of sexual activities that aren't illegal or harmful -- and that actively turn me off. I'm not going to do them no matter how much I love you. That doesn't make me less of a sexual being, or a big loser -- it makes me somebody who is honest about his sexuality and confident enough to say both yes and no as required.
Having just said that, I do think that the OP needs to cowboy/girl up and, while sober and not in the bedroom, find a way to clearly communicate that she wants to begin gently exploring her fantasy life. She needs to know that he might well not be into it -- and that he might say that he is cool with it, but later turn out not to be, at all. And it might turn out that he gets all excited by the kink, while she decides that the fantasy is fun but the reality isn't. There's not a clear, predetermined outcome to this, and it conceivably could backfire in a whole bunch of ways.
There are a lot of guys who are not comfortable with playing a dominant role in the bedroom, and that's cool. If that's the case with him, she either needs to find another way to fulfill those fantasies, find another partner, or live without that aspect of her sexuality in exchange for the other things this relationship offers.
posted by Forktine at 10:22 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Women are like the super red jammies from The Greatest American Hero. You've given this guy THE LOST MANUAL, but he's not using it. This means that he doesn't want to use it. Rather than keeping on asking him to hold you down, you need to find out why he doesn't want to hold you down.
My guess is he really doesn't know what to do. "So, I hold you down and then...what? Talk dirty? Talk rough? Get rougher? I feel and look stupid, and that's not a great feeling for a guy in the bedroom." Maybe hire some DVDs to show him what you want? Even then, he just might not be a role player. There could be something in his past that makes him very much not want to do this. He could just be really conservative. *shrug*
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:02 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
My guess is he really doesn't know what to do. "So, I hold you down and then...what? Talk dirty? Talk rough? Get rougher? I feel and look stupid, and that's not a great feeling for a guy in the bedroom." Maybe hire some DVDs to show him what you want? Even then, he just might not be a role player. There could be something in his past that makes him very much not want to do this. He could just be really conservative. *shrug*
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:02 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
2. I wouldn't mention the boredom with your sex life; it might hurt him and/or put him on the defensive. And it seems a little early in the game for an ultimatum.
A potential script could be, "Could I talk to you about something sexual? So, this is a little bit embarrassing for me to say, but I really love you and feel like I can tell you this. I've always been curious about being dominated in bed and I was wondering if we could try it. What I'd really like is for you to [explain here what you want]. I think that would be really fun and it would really turn me on. Is that something that you have any interest in doing?"
3. Based on what's happened so far, I'd say he's more unsure of himself than disrespectful. He may just not be sure what you want and is afraid to ask or to take the initiative and go for it. Talk to him and ask him straight out about this and take it from there.
Good luck!
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 12:31 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]