Leave someone you love if they're not right for you?

April 19, 2010 10:53 PM

How do I know if I should leave her, if I love her?

I love her so much it hurts sometimes. She is not in love with me. I told her I loved her and she said she wasn't feeling that way yet. It's been almost nine months. Sometimes I feel like I'm in the movie "He's just not that into you" except the other way around.

How do I find the courage to make the right decision for myself? If I stay and she does love me someday, will the way she treats me change?

Is her complacency likely because of her not being in love? I guess I'm struggling with trying to understand if waiting it out to see if she falls in love will eventually change the way she treats me. She doesn’t treat me poorly, just doesn’t do very much, like I’m not a priority.

My mother said to wait it out until a year rolls around and then talk to her and ask her if she sees a future with me.

We are in our twenties. Please help :( I hate the unknown...

posted by Atlantic to human relations (34 answers total)

Didn't you just tell her that you loved her? I remembered your last question, which was two weeks ago.

If you do love her, then that means you love her for who she is right now and not who you imagine her to be in some future where she treats you like more of a priority and says "I love you" when you want her to. That doesn't mean you have to wait forever (or even at all, if you don't think the relationship is working), but if you truly love her you should wait for more than two weeks.

And hassling her about the issue is going to work against you instead of for you.
posted by sallybrown at 10:59 PM on April 19, 2010 [3 favorites]

Your mother's advice strikes me as wise, but if you are already feeling so bad, three more months may be a long time to wait. Only you can know when you're done waiting. It's a healthy thing, this desire to keep yourself from pain and to move on from someone who isn't interested in you. I'm sorry. :(

There's no way to know what will happen in the future, but the chances of you finding someone who loves you as much as you love them (if you leave) are probably greater than the chances of her feelings shifting dramatically (if you stay). It's hard to say for sure without knowing much more about the situation.
posted by salvia at 10:59 PM on April 19, 2010

I don't know if the way she treats you will change. You seem pretty upset.

Might be a good idea to set a concrete date and if things aren't better, then promise yourself that you will end things. You don't have to do anything right now. At the same time, putting yourself through this in perpetuity doesn't sound like a very good idea either.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 11:01 PM on April 19, 2010

You can only wait so long before you feel that you are only a "safety net" or a "friend" that will always be there.
posted by saran-han at 11:05 PM on April 19, 2010 [1 favorite]

You don't sound very happy. I suspect that the love you really want feels better than this. Sometimes you don't need rationales or complex arguments. You just need to not be miserable or chasing something that may or may not come through. I wish you the best. Go find happiness.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:21 PM on April 19, 2010 [6 favorites]

Didn't you just tell her two weeks ago that you love her? I know waiting is hard, but it could take longer than two weeks for her to be ready to say those words back to you. You said in your last question about this issue that your girlfriend was thrilled and teary-eyed when you told her... has anything changed? Is she treating you coldly now, or picking fights, or anything like that? If she's not treating you differently and everything is okay aside from the very, very small issue of her not saying "I love you" yet, then just wait. (If she's suddenly being genuinely unkind to you, though, that's a different story.)

Just because she hasn't said the words back to you yet doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings for you. Anecdote time: a good friend of mine, having been on dating hiatus for several months, started seeing a guy late last summer. Within six weeks he was telling her that he loved her, but she, having been burned pretty badly in the past, takes a declaration of love pretty seriously and doesn't say it just because someone says it to her. She told him that she wasn't quite there yet, but that she cared for him very much and liked where things were going and wanted him to know that just because she wasn't saying it to him yet, that didn't mean she would never say it. Long story short, they are now engaged.

If she has suddenly become cruel or indifferent to you (cancelling plans, not taking your calls, acting bored with you, etc.), then yes, I would say you have a problem on your hands and you should maybe think about breaking up. But if the only thing wrong here is that she just hasn't said those three little words back... then frankly, you need to learn patience.
posted by palomar at 11:31 PM on April 19, 2010 [3 favorites]

She is not in love with me

That's all you need. The energy you're creating in your life right now has led to this situation. If you keep doing what you're doing she'll never love you, and you'll become more and more miserable and start taking it out on her and the people around you.

Being in love isn't an endgame. Get out and get sorted, and figure out what kind of hole you're trying to fill in your life with this imaginary relationship.
posted by alan at 11:44 PM on April 19, 2010 [4 favorites]

That's just the thing. She seemed happy after I told her. But in these last two weeks she hasn't contacted me. I've had to take all the initiative. Since we're both in school usually around 3:00, 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock one of us will fire a text off to see how the other is doing or how the day is going.

However, since I told her I loved her, she hasn't once intitiated contact. it'll be 10:00 before I finally cave and call her or something. I'm really confused because we still hang out and she seems alright and normal in person but she just decided all of a sudden to stop intiating contact.

I decided not to call her one night to see of she would and didn't. But after when I asked why she didn't call, she said "Oh well I thought you would have by that point" and than I just made up some excuse as to why I didn't because I felt bad...

It seems like all of a sudden she expects me to do everything because I said "I love you to her" two weeks ago???

This is why I'm confused. I can't tell if she pulling away because she doesn't give a shit or pulling away because she wants to draw me closer?
posted by Atlantic at 11:45 PM on April 19, 2010

Have you talked to her about this? We can sit around and theorize all night, or you can try to get an actual answer. Tell her you feel like she's been a little distant lately, and ask her if it's related to the love thing. No one here can give a better answer than she can.

Maybe she's been busy, maybe she's trying to get some distance so she can think about how she feels about your relationship and process what you told her. Maybe you've been acting differently since you told her and she's responding negatively to it (you seem really caught up in this question in your posts; maybe that's manifesting itself in your behavior?). Or maybe, it's only been two weeks, this is not a big deal or a sign of anything, and you should try and relax and be patient and enjoy your girlfriend who you love.
posted by MadamM at 12:01 AM on April 20, 2010

She might just be nervous and self-conscious...or just not wanting to lead you on...or busy...or really loving being spoiled by someone who loves her and always takes the time to call...or she wants to be considerate of your busy schedule...

If you want her to call sometimes, ask her. You are "testing" her and it's not fair because she doesn't know it's a test and she doesn't know what she's supposed to do.

Still, if you're not happy, you're not happy.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 12:08 AM on April 20, 2010 [4 favorites]

I can't tell if she pulling away because she doesn't give a shit or pulling away because she wants to draw me closer?

I'm sorry to hear things are going this way. Unfortunately, the only person who can tell you why your girlfriend seems to be pulling away is her. You have to ask her what's up, instead of trying to guess what she is thinking or feeling, or having us guess what she is thinking and feeling, and we don't really have enough information to give you answers on this. You say you're both in school - are you enrolled at the same school, is it midterm time or something? Is she dealing with heavy academic stress? Job stress? Family problems? She hasn't initiated phone contact in the past two weeks but the two of you have spent time together in the same physical space -- is that just the two of you, or is she only seeing you when you're in a group of friends?

Have you been putting any pressure on her to say "I love you" since you said it two weeks ago? Because in your questions here it seems like you have very strong negative feelings about her not saying it back to you immediately, and that may be coming across in the way you are interacting with her now. (and on preview, MadamM already brought this up.)
posted by palomar at 12:13 AM on April 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

usually around 3:00, 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock one of us will fire a text off to see how the other is doing or how the day is going.

She doesn't know whether she does - and ... perhaps you don't really know if you are really in love with her. Or even if you love her.

You're in your early 20-ies. Have you ever felt heartbreak, or have you every been tempted to feel a similar way to someone else?

Would you give your life for her, before she bore a child of yours?
posted by porpoise at 12:52 AM on April 20, 2010

She doesn't know whether she does - and ... perhaps you don't really know if you are really in love with her. Or even if you love her.

You're in your early 20-ies. Have you ever felt heartbreak, or have you every been tempted to feel a similar way to someone else?

Would you give your life for her, before she bore a child of yours?

I have felt heartbreak. I have been in two serious relationships prior to this one. I know I have been in love because no one could have told me otherwise or givin an accurate description to the way I felt about ex-lovers. I believe one of my defining qualities is that I know myself better than most people know themselves.

As for giving my life for her? That’s a difficult question for anyone to answer hypothetically.

I know I love her and I have never loved someone out of obligation. So I don't believe thats the problem.

Have you been putting any pressure on her to say "I love you" since you said it two weeks ago? Because in your questions here it seems like you have very strong negative feelings about her not saying it back to you immediately, and that may be coming across in the way you are interacting with her now. (and on preview, MadamM already brought this up.)

No I haven't been putting preasure on her. On the contrary I haven't spoken about what I told her since I did. I have acted exactly the same as I was before. I've learned from past relationships that there is a very delicate balance between giving too much of yourself and giving to little. Which ultimatly leads to pushing the other person away. I believe I have been an excellent boyfriend who has done nothing but be there for her before she needs to ask and care for her when she needs someone.
posted by Atlantic at 1:17 AM on April 20, 2010

I love her so much it hurts sometimes. She is not in love with me.
leave. this will never work.

end of story.
posted by krautland at 2:20 AM on April 20, 2010 [8 favorites]

I can only tell you one thing:
The more you text her, the less she will want (or need) to text you.
There is already an imbalance in your relationship. This is not good.

I can't tell you whether your relationship has a future. But I think you don't need to end this relationship. I think you just need to stop texting.
At some point she will either take the initiative or - she won't. And that will be the answer you need.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:37 AM on April 20, 2010 [6 favorites]

I have been in two serious relationships prior to this one. I know I have been in love because no one could have told me otherwise or givin an accurate description to the way I felt about ex-lovers. I believe one of my defining qualities is that I know myself better than most people know themselves

Atlantic, dear. This is how all of us 20-somethings feel.
Our narcissism isn't always the truth.

Two serious relationships is still a start for most people, and being as something like this is affecting you as much as it is goes to show that you haven't felt true heartbreak, that you aren't able to comprehend unrequited love. That you aren't experienced enough to know that when a girl starts detaching herself from you after you tell her you love her out of the blue, after x amount of time, it usually means you need to back away and give her some space.

Tell her that it is bothering you as much as it is. Tell her you know she is hermitting. Ask her if she needs some time. If you've already asked her these things, ask her again.

There is no reason to continue putting yourself through this. It is no one's fault, just move on. The worst that happens is that you miss a current opportunity with one girl out of millions.

More good will come with departure.
posted by june made him a gemini at 2:40 AM on April 20, 2010 [15 favorites]

Nthing Omnomnom. Stop chasing her and see what happens.
posted by getawaysticks at 5:17 AM on April 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

Nthing June so hard. If you knew yourself that well, you'd probably feel secure enough to have this discussion with her instead of with the internet. You sound bewildered and unsure, not like someone who knows himself, and you don't sound like you're having adult relationships (based on this question and the prior). We can't tell you how to "catch" her or whatever it is you want to do; your relationship with her should be worked out WITH HER.

Also, your description of yourself as a good boyfriend and your question sort-of put me in mind of this. That may not be you, but that's what it made me think of, specifically:

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him. [...]

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date". [...]

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:32 AM on April 20, 2010 [5 favorites]

As my mom said to me once "If they want to be with you, they will. There won't be any games or any confusion." I hated that she was right about this because I can make excuses with the best of them for almost anyone. But she was right.

Acknowledge what is in front of you and continue stepping through it. (The only way out is through, as they say.) You know what the answer is and 90000 mefi-ites won't convince you of what you know in your heart is true.

I've been there and I do understand. (Hugs)
posted by Mysticalchick at 6:33 AM on April 20, 2010 [2 favorites]

june made him a gemini favorited hard
posted by leotrotsky at 6:35 AM on April 20, 2010

It sounds like she's already broken up with you but doesn't know how to tell you. I bet if you stop contacting her and wait for her to contact you things will just pretty much fizzle out.
posted by 6550 at 6:35 AM on April 20, 2010

Okay, from my lofty perch up here on Old Age Mountain, it doesn't sound like you love her, it sounds like you love the imagined, idealistic version of her in your head. She hasn't interacted with you in two weeks, unless you've forced the issue. So what, exactly, do you love? The silence? It's not really a relationship when only one of you is relating.

To me, it sounds more like you're in love with not being alone. Most of us are in love with not being alone; that's what causes people to stay in relationships that any casual observer would tell them is not a good one. But consider this: by staying with her, you're cutting yourself off from the opportunity to meet someone who is into you.

You deserve to be with someone who is just as excited about spending time with you as you are excited to spend time with them.
posted by MexicanYenta at 6:39 AM on April 20, 2010 [6 favorites]

That's just the thing. She seemed happy after I told her. But in these last two weeks she hasn't contacted me. I've had to take all the initiative. Since we're both in school usually around 3:00, 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock one of us will fire a text off to see how the other is doing or how the day is going.

However, since I told her I loved her, she hasn't once intitiated contact. it'll be 10:00 before I finally cave and call her or something. I'm really confused because we still hang out and she seems alright and normal in person but she just decided all of a sudden to stop intiating contact.

This is exactly what you should be saying to her, not to us. Honestly, it is perfectly valid grounds for a discussion. If she has any decency or maturity in her, she'll really tell you what's up and what she's feeling instead of trying to make you think it's all in your head.

(Unless it really is...)
posted by hermitosis at 6:45 AM on April 20, 2010

Perspective, perspective, perspective. You need some perspective.

I know it's easy to say this but you need to go and live your life and stop making her the center of your universe. By focusing all your attention and energy on her (loving you, not loving you etc...) every little detail, emotion and decision gets enhanced and gets much weightier than necessary.

Only you can do this but once you realize/decide that she doesn't control how you feel, you do, you'll be able to look at this situation from a few steps back and it will be easier to handle.

Go join a bowling league and focus on that and get your mind off her for a bit.

Good luck.
posted by eatcake at 7:09 AM on April 20, 2010

From personal experience, I used to work with a guy friend who I enjoyed hanging out with. He started texting and calling me often outside work and I thought we were just really good friends. This went on for about 6-7 months, then one night, when we both got really drunk, he confessed that he had been in love with me for almost as long as we had known each other. A few days later he followed up with an email, and went on to explain how he felt for me. In response, I apologized for not realizing his feelings or reciprocating them, and told him exactly how I felt, that I would probably never see him as more than a good friend.

I just wanted us to remain friends, so my solution to this was to back off, thinking that if we hung out less, he'd realize that he liked me less. Also, I didn't know how to handle being friends with someone who actually loved me a lot. I had thought, maybe our friendship will go back to normal if I just backed off a little. Conversationally, nothing had really changed, we'd still talk about the same things, but in my mind his texts and conversations no longer retained that same "we're good friends" feeling. My mind started to interpret them as, "I like you, let's hang out some more" texts and calls.

When we talked, someone looking on would say that our friendship hadn't changed, but to me every thing was now super awkward, and I couldn't handle it. He never mentioned his confession again, and never really said anything romantic since his confession, but I couldn't seem to get over the awkwardness.

The frequent texts started to annoy me, I stopped answering his phone calls, making lame excuses the next day when he'd ask. This probably doesn't apply to you, but this co-worker had no other resource to get to me, so he started going through my Facebook account and using wall posts and status updates as conversational fodder when we met at work.

Soon, his persistence started to creep me out a little and I was a little annoyed that he wasn't taking the hint that I didn't want to hang out as much. He kept asking why we didn't hang out as much, or why I didn't answer his calls, and I never really gave him a straight answer. Our friendship deteriorated, but he persisted and eventually, I got the guts to confront him and tell him to back off a little. He did give me spave for about a month or so, but since we had the same circle of friends, we'd still see each other often outside of work, and during those times he'd always want to hang around me.

I tried blocking him out of my life. But it actually had got much worse, and he started telling all my guy friends that he and I were dating and having sex, which wasn't even remotely true. It was at this point I had to tell him to back off or I would report him to management for sexual harassment.

That was the end of our friendship for good this time.

I was dumb. And I was hurt. I'm not saying that the sex rumors he spread were right, but I definitely could have handled the situation much better. The anxiety of losing a friend really got to me, and I didn't want to deal with the awkwardness of having a friend that liked me. This story is just an example, and I know you're probably smart enough to not let your intense love provoke you to do the extreme actions my co-worker did. I merely wanted to convey what I was feeling during the whole ordeal.

It's not until much later I realized I was hurting my friend every time I ignored him, and I should have spoken up very early on instead of making excuses. We probably could have even reestablished our good friendship status if I just had gotten the space I needed, so I could have the extra time to realize how stupid I was acting, but it was as if he didn't want to let go of me, and that just made things worse.

Maybe your friend is feeling the same as I did. Ideally, it'd be great if she'd spoke up, but not everyone is vocal like that. Talking to her about the confession will probably make her feel even more awkward, so I'd give her the space she needs and see how things pan out. I'm willing to bet she will eventually realize what I did, that ignoring a good friend is just lame, and she'll come around.

But also, it falls on your shoulders to respect her feelings for liking you just as just a friend, and only a friend. You can't change her feelings, and if it really bothers you to the point that it hurts you, maybe you should step back from the situation a little bit. You don't want that hurt to rub off on to her, or explode in some way you can't control. If you feel that this is the case, take a break from her and peruse your personal interests or hobbies for a while. She'll be there when you get back, and it will give you time to build on yourself.

Good luck.
posted by nikkorizz at 7:56 AM on April 20, 2010 [2 favorites]

Oh good, I get to combine my most common relationship filter responses.

First, talk about it again. Tell her how you're feeling.

Second, if you are happier without the relationship than with it, get out. If not, stay.

There is no third step.
posted by craven_morhead at 9:21 AM on April 20, 2010

Definitely time for you to move on and find someone who feels the same way that you feel about them.

Like some of the other posters, I have had a male friend who just couldn't get the message and it was very painful and ended badly. In my case I told him repeatedly that we could never be more than friends and that I would never leave my current boyfriend for him, and he seemed okay with it for a while, then he totally freaked out and threatened suicide. After that I avoided having male friends for a long time.

I think romantic movies where the guy gets the girl under very unlikely circumstances are at least partially to blame for men not respecting that a woman is just not interested in them that way.
posted by meepmeow at 10:27 AM on April 20, 2010

nikkorizz that's good advice except for a few things...

1). She is my girlfriend not a friend. It's not like I have been secrectly in love with some girl and not spoken up about it for months about it. We were not freinds before we met. So everything we have built has been on the assumption of being in a relationship, not jsut friends. She is very aware that she’s dating someone.

2). We are still having sex and hanging out. So it's not like I can just stop talking to her completely and break off contact, since I know she will wonder what’s going on and I somehow see that making me look like an ass.

3). that’s very unfortunate that that happened with your friend. However, and with no disrespect, I'm not an obsessive stalker. I don't spread rumors and tell people things that are untrue.

Plus she doesn’t act like anything’s wrong when we're together.

I should add, on Friday, she came home from work at 10:30 and when I finally got tired of waiting for her to ask me to do something I invited her over. Her response was and I quote:

"Okay :) I was waiting for an invite!"

And she hasn't stopped speaking of things we are doing in the future. Her behavior is confusing and I don't know how to approach it. She just doesn't seem to initiate things since I told her I loved her but still acts the same way as she always did before when we're together.
posted by Atlantic at 10:28 AM on April 20, 2010

Do you think you could be a bit obsessed? I don't say that to demean whatever it is you're feeling for her. But it sounds to me that you're freaking out that you said ILY and she hasn't said it back therefore OMG WHAT DOES THAT MEAN. I think you have to check what your expectations are. I'm sure you said ILY because you really meant it. It also sounds like you really want her to feel the same way as you. (She is not in love with me.)

If you feel like you're not a priority, talk to her about this. It sounds like you're putting the two together in your head, when maybe that connection doesn't exist: "I feel like I'm not a priority. Maybe if she says ILY then I will be a priority and she'll treat me the way that I want to be treated. An ILY should come freely, because the person wants to say it [which is true]. And if the ILY comes freely, the better treatment will come freely too. [not true.]" She may not know how you feel about her treating you; she can't read your mind, therefore, speak up!

Your first comment at 11:45 pm is partly why I think you might be a bit obsessed. It just sounds like you're keeping track of all the communications. "Ok, I texted her on Monday at 4 pm, and Tuesday at 3 pm, and Wednesday at 5 pm and she hasn't texted me once." It also sounds like you're sitting by your phone until 10 pm, waiting for her to call. This is a good way to drive yourself nuts. Like others have said, have a life outside of her too.

And this is kind of obsessive thinking:
I can't tell if she pulling away because she doesn't give a shit or pulling away because she wants to draw me closer?
This says a lot about the communication in your relationship. This type of statement sounds like you don't even know her - you're left guessing what her actions are. It sounds like you think she's playing some kind of game with you, when in reality, maybe she's not doing that and that's how you are interpreting her actions.

I believe I have been an excellent boyfriend who has done nothing but be there for her before she needs to ask and care for her when she needs someone.
You're allowed to have needs too. Do you ask her to be there for you in a same way? Is she there for you when you ask?

I think if you just give her some space and not get worked up about the non-texting and non-phonecalling (and refrain from doing that for awhile by getting on with your life; you can't refrain consciously cuz then you'll drive yourself nuts), maybe she'll call you. And set up a date with her for the weekend, and then at the end, just let her know that you'd like her to organize a date too sometime. (Don't say it in a whiny way, like, "You never initiate!" That's really offputting and won't encourage her to actually initiate.)

On preview: Re: the 10:30 pm invite on Friday: just let her know that she can call you and that she doesn't have to wait for you to call her. The initiating thing seems to be really important to you and yeah, you do seem a bit freaked out since you've said ILY and it seems that you had certain expectations after saying that, and that you're connecting the non-initiating thing with you saying ILY. The two might not even be related. So yeah, check the expectations you had when you said ILY.
posted by foxjacket at 10:45 AM on April 20, 2010 [3 favorites]

I decided not to call her one night to see of she would and didn't. But after when I asked why she didn't call, she said "Oh well I thought you would have by that point" and than I just made up some excuse as to why I didn't because I felt bad...

This sounds like you may be getting sucked into some game-playing.

Aren't you tired of worrying about this? What it says if you do this or she doesn't do that...?

You could just say things when you feel like saying them, call her when you feel like talking to her, give her the right to do the same and stop worrying about what it all 'means'. Get some perspective on the thing, figure out what you want and do it. Let her worry about her feelings/actions/etc... It's not your job to manage this whole thing.

my 2 cents.
posted by ServSci at 10:58 AM on April 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

Does she know you want her to take the initiative? It could be a "I want to tell you something" moment, but it could start with something as easy as:

>> "Okay :) I was waiting for an invite!"
> So was I! :)
posted by salvia at 12:16 PM on April 20, 2010

I think you should just have a serious talk with her and explain that you feel it's one-sided when you're the only one who takes initiative.

If she's mature, and genuinely into you, she will start taking the initiative. Problem solved.
posted by jayder at 4:47 PM on April 20, 2010

the way I'm reading this is you aren't actually giving her a chance to take initiative and contact you. And being overbearing like this is one way to really turn someone off.

Why don't you give her a chance to miss you and to contact you? And then if she doesn't, well, there's your answer.
posted by nunoidia at 11:47 PM on April 20, 2010

From your original question it sounded like you were giving her unwanted attention - even after adding more info and that you are actually dating and all, it still sounds like she isn't really into it and seems to feel kinda "meh - I could take it or leave it" about the relationship.

I think that, especially in your 20s, you could do a ton better than this - wild young happy love with bells and whistles and spending too much time together and all that fun stuff. I know that young love can be awkward, but usually it doesn't care that its awkward and steams full power ahead anyway.
posted by meepmeow at 9:46 AM on April 21, 2010