Do you know a neighborhood in or near Manhattan this country boy won't hate to live in?
April 2, 2010 9:35 PM Subscribe
Do you know a neighborhood in or near Manhattan this country boy won't hate to live in?
I know this gets asked a lot, but I have a different spin on this one. I'm from Mississippi and I'm wondering if it's even possible to find a place where I'll be comfortable near Manhattan. Below is an impressionistic sketch of what a comfortable place would look like:
I would be able to walk out my front door and get in my car (on street parking is fine). I don't mind taking public transportation; I'm describing ideals here.
I would be a 5 minute walk from somewhere with grass and trees where I can let my dog run off leash.
I would be able to get a really good meal without traveling a 30+ minutes or having to make reservations two weeks in advance.
I would be close to a quiet, uncrowded drinking establishment.
I have a daughter that will be school age in a few years, and I'm not the type to flee to a suburban gated community for "safety", but I do want to be in the right place for her, community-wise.
I would also be no more than an hour from work (don't know where in Manhattan the office is, yet).
I wouldn't have any sort of Homeowner's/Condo Association nonsense to deal with.
Consider for the purposes of this question that money isn't a major concern. Either rent or buy will work.
I know this gets asked a lot, but I have a different spin on this one. I'm from Mississippi and I'm wondering if it's even possible to find a place where I'll be comfortable near Manhattan. Below is an impressionistic sketch of what a comfortable place would look like:
I would be able to walk out my front door and get in my car (on street parking is fine). I don't mind taking public transportation; I'm describing ideals here.
I would be a 5 minute walk from somewhere with grass and trees where I can let my dog run off leash.
I would be able to get a really good meal without traveling a 30+ minutes or having to make reservations two weeks in advance.
I would be close to a quiet, uncrowded drinking establishment.
I have a daughter that will be school age in a few years, and I'm not the type to flee to a suburban gated community for "safety", but I do want to be in the right place for her, community-wise.
I would also be no more than an hour from work (don't know where in Manhattan the office is, yet).
I wouldn't have any sort of Homeowner's/Condo Association nonsense to deal with.
Consider for the purposes of this question that money isn't a major concern. Either rent or buy will work.
Best answer: Honestly? I don't think you should move to NYC.
You won't like driving here.
You won't be able to let your dog off its leash unless you're at a dog run. (Nor should you. It's against the law and incredibly presumptuous.)
You won't like dealing with people here.
Unless you get your own detached house then you won't find a living situation where you don't have a co-op board / housing association / etc.
You won't like the commute.
posted by ged at 9:46 PM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
You won't like driving here.
You won't be able to let your dog off its leash unless you're at a dog run. (Nor should you. It's against the law and incredibly presumptuous.)
You won't like dealing with people here.
Unless you get your own detached house then you won't find a living situation where you don't have a co-op board / housing association / etc.
You won't like the commute.
posted by ged at 9:46 PM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: this neighborhood exists, it is in brooklyn, and is called park slope. it fits every single one of your requirements, except for that since this is new york city, parking isn't easy there (street cleaning means you have to move your car at least once a week during a specific time or get a ticket). seriously, you don't even have to look anywhere else, you want to be in park slope.
posted by lia at 9:48 PM on April 2, 2010
posted by lia at 9:48 PM on April 2, 2010
Best answer: One hour from Grand Central on the train gets you to Westport CT and neighboring towns. Westport has one of the finest public school systems in the area, and the parks nearby are lovely. The town beach is beautiful. There is a beautiful rolling park right off Route 1 and 136 where many people go to jog and walk dogs.
I am not familiar with the radius you will achieve going out to NJ or LI, but friends who have looked for a country lifestyle with family in mind generally end up in CT.
On the island, you may consider Inwood, the northernmost neighborhood of Manhattan. It is very wooded and contains Fort Tryon Park, a beautiful hilly enclave that includes the cloisters and in which you can totally forget you are in NYC. Very low key, family and middle-aged couples. Fine assortment of casual restaurants and pubs.
You might also consider the old Irish neighborhood in the Bronx bordering the South and West sides of Van Cortlandt Park. This neighborhood is rapidly "gentrifying" (what an overused term) and VCP is quite a nice resource - plenty of fields, trails, a golf course and even a riding stable (yes, in the Bronx). A nice bunch of pubs in the neighborhood, some with great history and other newcomers indicating an area on the upswing. Still "affordable" to buy in this spot on the last stops of the 1.
Good luck! Have you spent much time in the Northeast before?
posted by keasby at 9:49 PM on April 2, 2010
I am not familiar with the radius you will achieve going out to NJ or LI, but friends who have looked for a country lifestyle with family in mind generally end up in CT.
On the island, you may consider Inwood, the northernmost neighborhood of Manhattan. It is very wooded and contains Fort Tryon Park, a beautiful hilly enclave that includes the cloisters and in which you can totally forget you are in NYC. Very low key, family and middle-aged couples. Fine assortment of casual restaurants and pubs.
You might also consider the old Irish neighborhood in the Bronx bordering the South and West sides of Van Cortlandt Park. This neighborhood is rapidly "gentrifying" (what an overused term) and VCP is quite a nice resource - plenty of fields, trails, a golf course and even a riding stable (yes, in the Bronx). A nice bunch of pubs in the neighborhood, some with great history and other newcomers indicating an area on the upswing. Still "affordable" to buy in this spot on the last stops of the 1.
Good luck! Have you spent much time in the Northeast before?
posted by keasby at 9:49 PM on April 2, 2010
Unless you get your own detached house then you won't find a living situation where you don't have a co-op board / housing association / etc.
I don't think renters typically have to deal with this kind of thing, and the OP stated he was open to renting. I mean, you might have some building rules (no pets, e.g.), but nothing remotely like a co-op board to contend with.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:18 PM on April 2, 2010
I don't think renters typically have to deal with this kind of thing, and the OP stated he was open to renting. I mean, you might have some building rules (no pets, e.g.), but nothing remotely like a co-op board to contend with.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:18 PM on April 2, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the snappy and insightful responses. ged, I totally agree with you. I don't think I will, but there's a possibility that this company I'm working from home for will ask me and I won't be able to talk them out of it.
The purpose of this question is basically to determine if it's at all possible for me to maintain a similar standard of living (even to San Diego, where I am now), and if so, how much that would cost.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 10:20 PM on April 2, 2010
The purpose of this question is basically to determine if it's at all possible for me to maintain a similar standard of living (even to San Diego, where I am now), and if so, how much that would cost.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 10:20 PM on April 2, 2010
Park Slope is the place for you. And as attached as you seem to your car now, trust me, the hassle of parking will get old and you'll embrace public transportation and zipcar in no time.
posted by Unred at 10:20 PM on April 2, 2010
posted by Unred at 10:20 PM on April 2, 2010
Best answer: you definately want to live in brooklyn. not manhattan. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN MANHATTAN. you want to live somewhere kind of abandoned and barren. the green and public transpo will be the issue. you want to live in vinegar hill or redhook.
posted by nathancaswell at 10:21 PM on April 2, 2010
posted by nathancaswell at 10:21 PM on April 2, 2010
although park slope does have way more good food
posted by nathancaswell at 10:24 PM on April 2, 2010
posted by nathancaswell at 10:24 PM on April 2, 2010
Best answer: The purpose of this question is basically to determine if it's at all possible for me to maintain a similar standard of living (even to San Diego, where I am now), and if so, how much that would cost.
If cost of living is what you are interested in, then the your instructions in your original question might lead people astray, since you said "Consider for the purposes of this question that money isn't a major concern." According to bankrate.com, Brooklyn is about 35% more expensive than San Diego and Manhattan is 65% more expensive.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:45 PM on April 2, 2010
If cost of living is what you are interested in, then the your instructions in your original question might lead people astray, since you said "Consider for the purposes of this question that money isn't a major concern." According to bankrate.com, Brooklyn is about 35% more expensive than San Diego and Manhattan is 65% more expensive.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:45 PM on April 2, 2010
+1 Park Slope. Sounds like it fits your bill, and is practically infested with young hip parents and their fancy strollers.
posted by thedaniel at 10:48 PM on April 2, 2010
posted by thedaniel at 10:48 PM on April 2, 2010
Best answer: Morningside Heights/Columbia University area.
• On-street parking is doable, though it requires some patience and awareness of street-cleaning rules.
• You are five minutes from Riverside Park, where you CAN legally walk your dog off-leash before 9 a.m. or after 9 p.m. (The previous poster is ill-informed) and has an excellent dog run for other times.
• Dozens of drinking establishments and restaurants to suit any taste.
• The public schools, if you play the game right, are excellent.
• You can get anywhere in Manhattan in less than an hour.
• You will likely have to deal with some sort of Co-op/Condo board, unless you rent. In which case you will have to deal with a landlord.
Wherever you might end up in the NYC area, you will be in for a massive culture shock vis a vis San Diego.
posted by stargell at 10:55 PM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
• On-street parking is doable, though it requires some patience and awareness of street-cleaning rules.
• You are five minutes from Riverside Park, where you CAN legally walk your dog off-leash before 9 a.m. or after 9 p.m. (The previous poster is ill-informed) and has an excellent dog run for other times.
• Dozens of drinking establishments and restaurants to suit any taste.
• The public schools, if you play the game right, are excellent.
• You can get anywhere in Manhattan in less than an hour.
• You will likely have to deal with some sort of Co-op/Condo board, unless you rent. In which case you will have to deal with a landlord.
Wherever you might end up in the NYC area, you will be in for a massive culture shock vis a vis San Diego.
posted by stargell at 10:55 PM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Staten Island.
I have family members out there who are owners and renters. They all drive, including one family that has three cars (mother, father and teen) and never are the cars more parked more than a minute away.
There's plenty of woods, grass, and trees, parkland, and even stables.
A commute might be a tad long for you, but Staten Island has all of what you're looking for.
It's pretty much as suburb-y as you get within NYC, while still having everything else accessible to you.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:58 PM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have family members out there who are owners and renters. They all drive, including one family that has three cars (mother, father and teen) and never are the cars more parked more than a minute away.
There's plenty of woods, grass, and trees, parkland, and even stables.
A commute might be a tad long for you, but Staten Island has all of what you're looking for.
It's pretty much as suburb-y as you get within NYC, while still having everything else accessible to you.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:58 PM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Friends of the family live in Queens near the Nassau county border, but I forget which part. For all intents and purposes, it's suburbia: streets lined with large trees, detached houses, good-sized front and back yards.
posted by brujita at 12:26 AM on April 3, 2010
posted by brujita at 12:26 AM on April 3, 2010
Park Slope is a place where you could be happy. You might also consider Bay Ridge.
posted by plep at 1:44 AM on April 3, 2010
posted by plep at 1:44 AM on April 3, 2010
Park Slope is awesome, but it is also very expensive. Expect to pay upwards of $3000/mo for a small 2BR apartment.
A lot of former Park Slopers (myself included) now live in the Montclair area of New Jersey, about a 30-45 minute train ride to Penn Station. A lot of people jokingly call it "Park Slope West" and that is somewhat true, but I've found a lot of snobbery and rich assholes out here who drive even worse than the New Yorkers in Brooklyn. On the flip side, there are a lot of great parks nearby, good restaurants and lots of young, hip parents.
posted by camworld at 5:46 AM on April 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
A lot of former Park Slopers (myself included) now live in the Montclair area of New Jersey, about a 30-45 minute train ride to Penn Station. A lot of people jokingly call it "Park Slope West" and that is somewhat true, but I've found a lot of snobbery and rich assholes out here who drive even worse than the New Yorkers in Brooklyn. On the flip side, there are a lot of great parks nearby, good restaurants and lots of young, hip parents.
posted by camworld at 5:46 AM on April 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
If money is no object, Manhattan near Central Park, minus the parking. Parts of Queens fit this description too (plus parking!), or Brooklyn near Prospect Park, but skip Park Slope and look more around Kensington. Parts of Northern Manhattan or the Bronx mentioned such as Washington Heights or Inwood, Kingsbridge or Riverdale may also interest you (I'm familiar with this neck of the woods memail if you have ?s).
From your question, though, it sounds like you're looking for Westchester, CT or NJ. You will most likely not enjoy the commute.
Also, keep in mind that unless you buy a stand alone property you will have restrictions from Coop or condo boards whether you rent or own, and such rules can generally change without notice.
posted by cestmoi15 at 6:09 AM on April 3, 2010
From your question, though, it sounds like you're looking for Westchester, CT or NJ. You will most likely not enjoy the commute.
Also, keep in mind that unless you buy a stand alone property you will have restrictions from Coop or condo boards whether you rent or own, and such rules can generally change without notice.
posted by cestmoi15 at 6:09 AM on April 3, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks again. I've never spent much time in the Northeast, and in fact, the most northern place I've ever lived is Denver Colorado. San Diego was a culture shock for me, filled to the brim as it is with transplanted north-easterners and LA types. I don't love it here either, but I'm starting to find my place.
I know many of you probably like living in that area, so I appreciate your enthusiasm for your area. I don't mean any slight when I ask how to make it suck less living surrounded by hordes of people all the time, it's just not a situation I'm comfortable with.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:54 AM on April 3, 2010
I know many of you probably like living in that area, so I appreciate your enthusiasm for your area. I don't mean any slight when I ask how to make it suck less living surrounded by hordes of people all the time, it's just not a situation I'm comfortable with.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:54 AM on April 3, 2010
If money's not a concern, you could always pay for parking, either out of pocket or negotiate with your company to cover the tab.
I pay $100 a month to park in my Jackson Heights, Queens coop's garage. That's on the low end of private residential parking fees, from what I've seen. Two of my friends park in a commercial garage in Hell's Kitchen; their employers pay for the garage.
Whether renting or buying, if you're told the building has parking but there's a waiting list, find out how long the wait is.
posted by Majorita at 8:55 AM on April 3, 2010
I pay $100 a month to park in my Jackson Heights, Queens coop's garage. That's on the low end of private residential parking fees, from what I've seen. Two of my friends park in a commercial garage in Hell's Kitchen; their employers pay for the garage.
Whether renting or buying, if you're told the building has parking but there's a waiting list, find out how long the wait is.
posted by Majorita at 8:55 AM on April 3, 2010
Best answer: I'll reiterate the Riverdale suggestion. I live there and I have reasonably constant cravings for not being in a large city. Van Cortlandt Park works fairly well but it fails on one account: you can always hear car traffic no matter where you are in the park.
I live a couple of blocks from the 1 train which is a couple of stops from Metro North commuter rail and a few stops from the A train which will get you downtown in an express-like fashion.
I don't know much about the schools in Riverdale - both Horace Mann and the Fieldston school are nearby but those are private and fancy so far as I know.
In terms of having a good dinner out, Riverdale isn't bad, but it isn't Manhattan.
Grocery stores: there are a good number of large grocery stores as well as smaller produce places. Riverdale has a large orthodox Jewish population so there are Kosher butchers and markets as well. Not to mention a good deli and bakery.
posted by sciencegeek at 10:40 AM on April 3, 2010
I live a couple of blocks from the 1 train which is a couple of stops from Metro North commuter rail and a few stops from the A train which will get you downtown in an express-like fashion.
I don't know much about the schools in Riverdale - both Horace Mann and the Fieldston school are nearby but those are private and fancy so far as I know.
In terms of having a good dinner out, Riverdale isn't bad, but it isn't Manhattan.
Grocery stores: there are a good number of large grocery stores as well as smaller produce places. Riverdale has a large orthodox Jewish population so there are Kosher butchers and markets as well. Not to mention a good deli and bakery.
posted by sciencegeek at 10:40 AM on April 3, 2010
Best answer: Horace Mann and Fieldston are two of the best schools in the country, very competitive, very expensive, and impossible to get into.
Not sure if the OP is looking for info on private schools or public schools...
posted by dfriedman at 11:00 AM on April 3, 2010
Not sure if the OP is looking for info on private schools or public schools...
posted by dfriedman at 11:00 AM on April 3, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks very much, IFDS9 & dfriedman. I haven't gotten to the school issue yet, but I'm wondering if I should figure in the cost of private school to the cost of living. Is there a reasonable chance that my kid could go to public school, get educated, and not get shot or stabbed?
I can live with an hour long commute, especially if I'm not driving the whole time. Riverdale sounds like it would be the best of a bad situation, so thanks everyone for that. Are the people there fairly laid-back, or am I pretty much going to have to put up with pushy and aggressive people no matter where I go? Is there an area that has a reputation for being more laid-back and slow paced?
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:31 PM on April 3, 2010
I can live with an hour long commute, especially if I'm not driving the whole time. Riverdale sounds like it would be the best of a bad situation, so thanks everyone for that. Are the people there fairly laid-back, or am I pretty much going to have to put up with pushy and aggressive people no matter where I go? Is there an area that has a reputation for being more laid-back and slow paced?
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:31 PM on April 3, 2010
Best answer: It's going to be tricky because, though individually all of your criteria can be found in the commutable NYC area, some of them cancel each other out.
For example, North Salem, NY is a sleepy little country village with lots of woodland and horse farms and spacious properties and an excellent public school, a couple of friendly restaurants... but the train ride is 75 minutes from Grand Central. It could work, though, depending on your job -- maybe you could have a shorter work day and do reading/writing on the train?
And then, for example, there's greater Greenwich, CT (including Old Greenwich, Riverside, and Cos Cob). 45 minute train ride from Grand Central, these towns house the wealthiest people in America. Lots of trees, great restaurants, bars, parks, schools... but on weekends the crowds in the grocery stores are enough to make you want to kill someone. There are leash laws, and can't-be-in-the-park-after-dark laws, and on the flip side, there are never any pot-holes and you can demand a stop sign or a speed bump installed just about anywhere you like.
Somewhere in between would be Mount Kisco, NY (50 minute train ride) or Dobbs Ferry, NY (35 minute train ride) where there are restaurants, parks, rich people, houses with yards, but more of a "village" tone, which means that things aren't too crazy on the weekends.
In my experience, you won't get a lot of info on Westchester County on Metafilter because people seem to skew younger and therefore Brooklynite. But there may be the right balance of factors in one of the towns for you.
But, speaking of Brooklyn, when I hear 'laid back and slow paced', I think of Red Hook. Bit of a pain commute, though!
posted by xo at 5:16 PM on April 3, 2010
For example, North Salem, NY is a sleepy little country village with lots of woodland and horse farms and spacious properties and an excellent public school, a couple of friendly restaurants... but the train ride is 75 minutes from Grand Central. It could work, though, depending on your job -- maybe you could have a shorter work day and do reading/writing on the train?
And then, for example, there's greater Greenwich, CT (including Old Greenwich, Riverside, and Cos Cob). 45 minute train ride from Grand Central, these towns house the wealthiest people in America. Lots of trees, great restaurants, bars, parks, schools... but on weekends the crowds in the grocery stores are enough to make you want to kill someone. There are leash laws, and can't-be-in-the-park-after-dark laws, and on the flip side, there are never any pot-holes and you can demand a stop sign or a speed bump installed just about anywhere you like.
Somewhere in between would be Mount Kisco, NY (50 minute train ride) or Dobbs Ferry, NY (35 minute train ride) where there are restaurants, parks, rich people, houses with yards, but more of a "village" tone, which means that things aren't too crazy on the weekends.
In my experience, you won't get a lot of info on Westchester County on Metafilter because people seem to skew younger and therefore Brooklynite. But there may be the right balance of factors in one of the towns for you.
But, speaking of Brooklyn, when I hear 'laid back and slow paced', I think of Red Hook. Bit of a pain commute, though!
posted by xo at 5:16 PM on April 3, 2010
As to the "pushy and aggressive" question - it has to be put in context. People walk fast on the streets and if you stop or walk too slowly, they'll try to walk around you. If there are a lot of people about, you might get jostled. Similarly, you need to be quick on and off the subway, and if it's rush hour, it's going to be damn crowded no matter what, and you will definitely get jostled. If you're on line at a deli during lunchhour and you take for...ever to order, you might get annoyed glares from fellow customers or the guy behind the counter. (Tip: Know exactly what you want before you get the front of the line.) The aisles at the supermarket are going to be a lot narrower than what you're used to - navigating around other patrons' carts can sometimes be a chore. Tables in restaurants will be closer together than you're probably accustomed to. And there's more in this vein.
So in all those senses, New York can feel like a crowded, busy, overwhelming place. BUT - as people like IFDS,SN9 indicate, the people here are very nice. No, they won't say hi to you walking down the street, or smile at your randomly. But unless someone is a wildly collosal jerk, you aren't going to get elbowed out of the way. If you ask someone for directions, they will help you. No one is going to scream at you. This is not some crazy rat-race where people are all desperately charging to grab the last onion bagel at H&H. There's always more, anyway. And as IFSD says, if you keep ordering coffee at the same place, soon enough they'll know exactly how you like it.
Is there a reasonable chance that my kid could go to public school, get educated, and not get shot or stabbed?
While NYC's public school system is not excellent (pretty hard when you're this big), there are some very fine schools here. (I went to public school through fifth grade and go a great education.) Still, quality can be very spotty. As for safety, New York is the safest big city in the nation. Some schools are undoubtedly safer than others, but given where you are likely to live, I doubt safety will be a major concern. If you live in suburbia, schools are generally considered better, but you may have to buy rather than rent - and property taxes are much, much higher outside of NYC.
Private school tuition in NYC is mindboggling - $35K a year, and of course, that comes after taxes. You may be earning enough to afford that, but obviously, that's a monster expense.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:34 AM on April 4, 2010
So in all those senses, New York can feel like a crowded, busy, overwhelming place. BUT - as people like IFDS,SN9 indicate, the people here are very nice. No, they won't say hi to you walking down the street, or smile at your randomly. But unless someone is a wildly collosal jerk, you aren't going to get elbowed out of the way. If you ask someone for directions, they will help you. No one is going to scream at you. This is not some crazy rat-race where people are all desperately charging to grab the last onion bagel at H&H. There's always more, anyway. And as IFSD says, if you keep ordering coffee at the same place, soon enough they'll know exactly how you like it.
Is there a reasonable chance that my kid could go to public school, get educated, and not get shot or stabbed?
While NYC's public school system is not excellent (pretty hard when you're this big), there are some very fine schools here. (I went to public school through fifth grade and go a great education.) Still, quality can be very spotty. As for safety, New York is the safest big city in the nation. Some schools are undoubtedly safer than others, but given where you are likely to live, I doubt safety will be a major concern. If you live in suburbia, schools are generally considered better, but you may have to buy rather than rent - and property taxes are much, much higher outside of NYC.
Private school tuition in NYC is mindboggling - $35K a year, and of course, that comes after taxes. You may be earning enough to afford that, but obviously, that's a monster expense.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:34 AM on April 4, 2010
Regarding the private school question...and a lot of your other questions, really.
How much money do you have to throw at the problem? Unfortunately, the answer to a lot of your questions (neighborhood, amenities, school, availability of parking, city or suburb or more rural area) all depend, in large part, on the amount of cash you're bringing in the front door every month after taxes.
I don't mean to be crass, but it sounds like you need some direction. If you want to live on Central Park you need to be earning a lot more than if you want to live in Riverdale. If you want to send your kids to an elite private school you need to earn a lot more than if you are OK with a public school. If you want to live on an acre or two in Greenwich CT you need to earn a lot more than if you want a two bedroom in Brooklyn Heights.
Etc.
So, without us knowing what your income is, all of these answers are only suppositions that won't really help you figure out where you can live or would want to live.
All of this being said, it's also quite understandable that you don't want to share financial information with us.
To that end, I'd suggest that you start by looking at real estate prices (both to buy and to rent) in the New York City metropolitan area, and figure out where you can live based on your salary. And then go from there. Come back with specific questions, such as: "I've decided I can afford to rent a 2 bed room apartment on the Upper West Side. Please tell me about X, Y, and Z as it pertains to living there."
posted by dfriedman at 6:39 AM on April 4, 2010
How much money do you have to throw at the problem? Unfortunately, the answer to a lot of your questions (neighborhood, amenities, school, availability of parking, city or suburb or more rural area) all depend, in large part, on the amount of cash you're bringing in the front door every month after taxes.
I don't mean to be crass, but it sounds like you need some direction. If you want to live on Central Park you need to be earning a lot more than if you want to live in Riverdale. If you want to send your kids to an elite private school you need to earn a lot more than if you are OK with a public school. If you want to live on an acre or two in Greenwich CT you need to earn a lot more than if you want a two bedroom in Brooklyn Heights.
Etc.
So, without us knowing what your income is, all of these answers are only suppositions that won't really help you figure out where you can live or would want to live.
All of this being said, it's also quite understandable that you don't want to share financial information with us.
To that end, I'd suggest that you start by looking at real estate prices (both to buy and to rent) in the New York City metropolitan area, and figure out where you can live based on your salary. And then go from there. Come back with specific questions, such as: "I've decided I can afford to rent a 2 bed room apartment on the Upper West Side. Please tell me about X, Y, and Z as it pertains to living there."
posted by dfriedman at 6:39 AM on April 4, 2010
To follow up on dfriedman: An elite private school in Manhattan is going to run you upwards of $35,000 a year, unless you qualify for some kind of financial help.
As for your question about public schools, as I noted earlier, there are some very good ones in NYC, but identifying and then getting into them requires research, persistence and work. The most desirable programs are very competitive—something like 1,800 applicants for 46 kindergarten spots at Hunter Elementary in the most extreme example—and require your four-old to be subjected to standardized testing and interviewing.
There is also a good deal of controversy over the city's "gifted and talented" programs (qualification is based on test scores) since in practice the student body breaks down on racial lines—white kids predominate in G&T, black and Hispanic kids populate the general education programs. Much of this, I think, is because well-to-do white parents are better versed in how to play the convoluted education game.
This Village Voice story is a bit of a hack job but it does make some valid points about the racial and class divide in NYC public schools.
posted by stargell at 7:58 AM on April 4, 2010
As for your question about public schools, as I noted earlier, there are some very good ones in NYC, but identifying and then getting into them requires research, persistence and work. The most desirable programs are very competitive—something like 1,800 applicants for 46 kindergarten spots at Hunter Elementary in the most extreme example—and require your four-old to be subjected to standardized testing and interviewing.
There is also a good deal of controversy over the city's "gifted and talented" programs (qualification is based on test scores) since in practice the student body breaks down on racial lines—white kids predominate in G&T, black and Hispanic kids populate the general education programs. Much of this, I think, is because well-to-do white parents are better versed in how to play the convoluted education game.
This Village Voice story is a bit of a hack job but it does make some valid points about the racial and class divide in NYC public schools.
posted by stargell at 7:58 AM on April 4, 2010
Response by poster: dfriedman - Sorry for being vague. Part of what I'm trying to do is gather some intel to be used to determine how much more I would need to ask for salary-wise were I to be asked to relocate. Just a few years ago, I'd have happily packed up my few things and moved anywhere in the world (and I did, coming to San Diego from New Orleans). With a wife and a kid now, it's really a vastly different situation. I'm still working on a way to live closer to family, but New York is about as far away as I could go, short of Portland or Alaska or something. Culturally it might as well be Japan (well, OK, maybe not Japan, 'cause they can be really freaky & weird over there, but it's as different as it could be on the continent).
Anyways, I know that a person can only speak from their own experience, so I tried to leave room for the people who like living in Manhattan to tell me what they like about it from their perspective, but to also be clear that for me the advantages of living in a city don't outweigh the psychic drain of being surrounded by people and traffic and noise and exhaust all the time. At the same time I'm not dreaming of living on a farm with chickens running around in the yard.
When I moved to San Diego, I asked people what the most run-down funky hippy neighborhood was, and ended up in Ocean Beach. It was hell for me, because they have essentially paved everything up to the shore. It's like living downtown & the biggest drag for me was that walking down the street you never smelled anything green & living. The smells were always dusty and dry and dead. I feel like that's kinda what Brooklyn would be like, too. When I moved further east which is generally moving to a hotter and drier area, I found a little more lush and green neighborhood, where I was much happier. I like hearing about Westchester county, but I worry about ending up in a snooty section of town where everything is more expensive and I'm financially outcompeted for everything.
This is a lot of thought given to something that hopefully will never happen, but it's weighing heavily on my mind and it really does help to hear from y'all so that my imagination is limited by details & can't go too wild imagining nightmare scenarios of being cramped in a tiny, roach infested apartment near the train tracks with sirens going by all the time.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:48 AM on April 4, 2010
Anyways, I know that a person can only speak from their own experience, so I tried to leave room for the people who like living in Manhattan to tell me what they like about it from their perspective, but to also be clear that for me the advantages of living in a city don't outweigh the psychic drain of being surrounded by people and traffic and noise and exhaust all the time. At the same time I'm not dreaming of living on a farm with chickens running around in the yard.
When I moved to San Diego, I asked people what the most run-down funky hippy neighborhood was, and ended up in Ocean Beach. It was hell for me, because they have essentially paved everything up to the shore. It's like living downtown & the biggest drag for me was that walking down the street you never smelled anything green & living. The smells were always dusty and dry and dead. I feel like that's kinda what Brooklyn would be like, too. When I moved further east which is generally moving to a hotter and drier area, I found a little more lush and green neighborhood, where I was much happier. I like hearing about Westchester county, but I worry about ending up in a snooty section of town where everything is more expensive and I'm financially outcompeted for everything.
This is a lot of thought given to something that hopefully will never happen, but it's weighing heavily on my mind and it really does help to hear from y'all so that my imagination is limited by details & can't go too wild imagining nightmare scenarios of being cramped in a tiny, roach infested apartment near the train tracks with sirens going by all the time.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:48 AM on April 4, 2010
Response by poster: FWIW, my wife and I currently make ~150k together, but her salary fluctuates by region because she's a highly skilled and specialized nurse. I've created my own scientific consulting niche, but if I moved, it would be to take a full-time job with an academic knowledge management startup. Success for me depends on my proximity to a dense concentration of research geeks, but the company is going to be in Manhattan.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:55 AM on April 4, 2010
posted by Mr. Gunn at 8:55 AM on April 4, 2010
Best answer: I grew up in Astoria, Riverdale and then in Westchester. I now live in the East Village. Each of these places is worlds apart in terms of community and space.
You want to be in Westchester. The schools tend towards the excellent, and you'll have a yard. There are the commuter trains, neat villages and you'll have some very nice parks & green spaces. You will need a car. You will need to buy a place (expect to pay 450k+) for an ok house in an ok neighborhood.
If you assume you will have a net salary of 150k, that puts you squarely into the middle class. You'll be able to afford a decent place, but you won't be living in a mansion. If you want a huge yard, you'll need to head towards the northern communities (Dobbs Ferry, Ardsley) or be willing to pay for it. The further you are from the city, the more annoying your commute, but you may find the suburbs worth it. If water access is important to you, New Rochelle and Larchmont are quite nice.
Education wise, I went to public school (gifted and talented portion) and then private school for High School in Westchester. Private HS in Westchester right now (going by The Ursuline School and Iona prep), is about 18k a year. It will be worth it. (or you can live in Bronxville, Scarsdale etc which have excellent HS- in those schools people outside of the town can pay tuition- about 10k and attend those schools). There are Montessori schools in many towns.
There's a HUGE range of prices everywhere. If you need to be within city limits then Brooklyn (parkslope) or Riverdale ARE the places for you. If you need greenery/openspace then you need to head outside city limits. Keep in mind, NYC is a fairly green city- trees line many blocks and it's not a complete concrete oasis.
Basically it's a ratio of Commute, Income, and space and finding the sweet-spot is going to be very individual. Look at google earth for the areas around NYC and see what looks ok to you. Read the NYTimes Real Estate section (it covers westchester as well) to get an eye for what you can afford.
posted by larthegreat at 10:31 AM on April 4, 2010
You want to be in Westchester. The schools tend towards the excellent, and you'll have a yard. There are the commuter trains, neat villages and you'll have some very nice parks & green spaces. You will need a car. You will need to buy a place (expect to pay 450k+) for an ok house in an ok neighborhood.
If you assume you will have a net salary of 150k, that puts you squarely into the middle class. You'll be able to afford a decent place, but you won't be living in a mansion. If you want a huge yard, you'll need to head towards the northern communities (Dobbs Ferry, Ardsley) or be willing to pay for it. The further you are from the city, the more annoying your commute, but you may find the suburbs worth it. If water access is important to you, New Rochelle and Larchmont are quite nice.
Education wise, I went to public school (gifted and talented portion) and then private school for High School in Westchester. Private HS in Westchester right now (going by The Ursuline School and Iona prep), is about 18k a year. It will be worth it. (or you can live in Bronxville, Scarsdale etc which have excellent HS- in those schools people outside of the town can pay tuition- about 10k and attend those schools). There are Montessori schools in many towns.
There's a HUGE range of prices everywhere. If you need to be within city limits then Brooklyn (parkslope) or Riverdale ARE the places for you. If you need greenery/openspace then you need to head outside city limits. Keep in mind, NYC is a fairly green city- trees line many blocks and it's not a complete concrete oasis.
Basically it's a ratio of Commute, Income, and space and finding the sweet-spot is going to be very individual. Look at google earth for the areas around NYC and see what looks ok to you. Read the NYTimes Real Estate section (it covers westchester as well) to get an eye for what you can afford.
posted by larthegreat at 10:31 AM on April 4, 2010
I've clearly come late to the thread but I'm surprised no one suggested NJ yet. Depending on how far out/how long of a commute you want there are a TON of towns that fit your criteria. Hoboken is essentially a 6th borough, and with some of the newer apartment buildings have great parking.
Farther out, you have Maplewood, Montclair, Ridgewood--all suburban towns with bustling downtowns, great places to eat and lots of green space. Plus a number of other smaller towns near them, also with cute walkable downtowns, etc.
Just make sure you're on/near a train line, and you investigate the parking for the train station.
posted by kumquatmay at 10:20 AM on April 16, 2010
Farther out, you have Maplewood, Montclair, Ridgewood--all suburban towns with bustling downtowns, great places to eat and lots of green space. Plus a number of other smaller towns near them, also with cute walkable downtowns, etc.
Just make sure you're on/near a train line, and you investigate the parking for the train station.
posted by kumquatmay at 10:20 AM on April 16, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
On-street parking is also possible in most of Brooklyn in a way that it is entirely not in Manhattan. And you can get most places in Manhattan in about an hour on the subway.
Also, though I haven't been there, I'm told that parts of Queens have houses with real, if minuscule, yards.
posted by Netzapper at 9:44 PM on April 2, 2010