Why are dishwashers not more common?
March 8, 2010 11:26 AM Subscribe
Why are dishwashers not more common?
I don't see many people having dishwashers in their houses. Unlike other appliances that make our lives easier such as washers, dryers, microwaves, toaster ovens which clean our clothes and cook our food for us how come the dishwasher is not as prevalent in households?
I don't see many people having dishwashers in their houses. Unlike other appliances that make our lives easier such as washers, dryers, microwaves, toaster ovens which clean our clothes and cook our food for us how come the dishwasher is not as prevalent in households?
Where are you living? What's the age of the homes that make up your sample? Are you looking at houses, apartments, or what?
(I'm not sure my observations agree with you, is where I'm going with this.)
posted by restless_nomad at 11:29 AM on March 8, 2010
(I'm not sure my observations agree with you, is where I'm going with this.)
posted by restless_nomad at 11:29 AM on March 8, 2010
Where are you?
They are totally common where I am (western US), especially in newer homes. I don't know many people without them.
posted by crunchtopmuffin at 11:29 AM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
They are totally common where I am (western US), especially in newer homes. I don't know many people without them.
posted by crunchtopmuffin at 11:29 AM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I struggle to think of one single friend who doesn't have a dishwasher in their house/apartment. On the other hand, I know many people who do not have washers/dryers in their apartments and have to use the common laundry room.
(On preview, yeah, western US here.)
posted by Skot at 11:30 AM on March 8, 2010
(On preview, yeah, western US here.)
posted by Skot at 11:30 AM on March 8, 2010
Confirmation bias.
posted by proj at 11:32 AM on March 8, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by proj at 11:32 AM on March 8, 2010 [7 favorites]
Dishwashers are pretty standard in every home or apartment I've been in in the western US. There's exceptions like my current craptastic studio, but I chose the location over convenience.
posted by birdherder at 11:33 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by birdherder at 11:33 AM on March 8, 2010
I think you're begging the question. Dishwashers are incredibly common. They aren't very expensive, either. This article claims that as of 2005, 74% of US households had dishwashers.
posted by peep at 11:34 AM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by peep at 11:34 AM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can't really remember the last time I was in a home that didn't have a dishwasher. I can only remember being in one home that didn't have a built-in, and even they had one of those free-rolling, plug-into-the faucet kinds.
I will agree that it is the least necessary of all home appliances though.
posted by Willie0248 at 11:35 AM on March 8, 2010
I will agree that it is the least necessary of all home appliances though.
posted by Willie0248 at 11:35 AM on March 8, 2010
Every homeowner I know has a dishwasher and a washer/dryer. However, none of our (70ish) rental houses have dishwashers or washer/dryers. We do provide other appliances, but not these.
posted by raisingsand at 11:36 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by raisingsand at 11:36 AM on March 8, 2010
Pacific Northwest data point: I don't know anyone who lives in a house/apartment without a dishwasher. My sample includes brand-new condos as well as very old houses (assuming, of course, that anything in Seattle can be considered very old by non-American standards).
posted by halogen at 11:37 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by halogen at 11:37 AM on March 8, 2010
I do t get why people pose location-specific questions suh as this yet refuse to tell us where they live.
I mean if you told me that you live in NYC I could tell you that the answer is a lot of old housing can't handle dishwasher hookups. But that's not true of most of Norh America and so is an answer of limited utility.
posted by dfriedman at 11:38 AM on March 8, 2010
I mean if you told me that you live in NYC I could tell you that the answer is a lot of old housing can't handle dishwasher hookups. But that's not true of most of Norh America and so is an answer of limited utility.
posted by dfriedman at 11:38 AM on March 8, 2010
If you live in an apartment building and rent, it's probably because landlords don't want to incur the expense of outfitting an apartment with a dishwasher and also because they feel that the machine would use much more water (which they pay for) than if the dishes were washed by hand.
posted by orehek at 11:38 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by orehek at 11:38 AM on March 8, 2010
I recently encountered the first dwelling I've ever seen without a dishwasher. I'd look at what's common to the places you've observed or the types of people or the area of the country or even the town. If you isolate some common factors and then try to see what might have shaped the behavior you might get your answer. (Data points - Eastern and Southern US, mid 70s until now, apartments/houses/condos)
posted by KAS at 11:41 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by KAS at 11:41 AM on March 8, 2010
East coast, we are middle class, don't know a soul without a dishwasher. Except for my mom, her circa 1958 Orleans brick twin still has the original Caolric gas range and oven, but no dishwaher. Confirmation bias.
posted by fixedgear at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by fixedgear at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2010
Like others, I would be curious as to where you are. In my experience, lack of a dishwasher is a rarity. The only time I've really seen it is in older homes with unremodeled kitchens.
posted by The Deej at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by The Deej at 11:45 AM on March 8, 2010
I don't see many people having dishwashers in their houses.
This will depend heavily on the people whose houses you are regularly visiting. If you're visiting students who cook for themselves, they might have one dirty plate at a time - a dishwasher would be a negligible help. On the other hand if you know a family of five, a dishwasher would make more sense as they would be producing a larger volume of dirty crockery.
Unlike other appliances that make our lives easier such as washers, dryers, microwaves, toaster ovens which clean our clothes and cook our food for us how come the dishwasher is not as prevalent in households?
I have lived in a number of houses in recent years, sometimes with a dishwasher and sometimes without.
The main criteria has been space - once the oven, fridge, washing machine, freezer, tumble dryer, and second fridge are all in place, is there another appliance-sized gap for a dishwasher? Most of the places I have lived have not had that much space.
The second criteria (as someone who moves somewhat often) is the inconvenience of moving. My last dishwasher I sold to the next people moving into the house (at a steep discount) because I didn't have anywhere to store it, and didn't want to rent a van or make a second journey in order to move it.
My final criteria is that a dishwasher wouldn't do me any good anyway as I don't have a lot of redundant crockery (don't want to transport it all), so I would have to run a dishwasher every day, and sometimes twice a day.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:46 AM on March 8, 2010
This will depend heavily on the people whose houses you are regularly visiting. If you're visiting students who cook for themselves, they might have one dirty plate at a time - a dishwasher would be a negligible help. On the other hand if you know a family of five, a dishwasher would make more sense as they would be producing a larger volume of dirty crockery.
Unlike other appliances that make our lives easier such as washers, dryers, microwaves, toaster ovens which clean our clothes and cook our food for us how come the dishwasher is not as prevalent in households?
I have lived in a number of houses in recent years, sometimes with a dishwasher and sometimes without.
The main criteria has been space - once the oven, fridge, washing machine, freezer, tumble dryer, and second fridge are all in place, is there another appliance-sized gap for a dishwasher? Most of the places I have lived have not had that much space.
The second criteria (as someone who moves somewhat often) is the inconvenience of moving. My last dishwasher I sold to the next people moving into the house (at a steep discount) because I didn't have anywhere to store it, and didn't want to rent a van or make a second journey in order to move it.
My final criteria is that a dishwasher wouldn't do me any good anyway as I don't have a lot of redundant crockery (don't want to transport it all), so I would have to run a dishwasher every day, and sometimes twice a day.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:46 AM on March 8, 2010
Given this poster's last memorable question about "why do corner stores exist," I'm going to posit (s)he's in NYC or a similar area.
In that case, all the answers above apply to why renters don't have dishwashers. They're expensive for the landlord, they take up precious kitchen space, they use more water than hand-washing, and they are simply not a "required" part of the NYC/etc rental market. If you're looking to rent in, say, Tempe, you might think a place without a dishwasher is anomalous and worth skipping over. In NYC/etc, just the opposite.
But this is approaching chatfilter.
posted by jckll at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
In that case, all the answers above apply to why renters don't have dishwashers. They're expensive for the landlord, they take up precious kitchen space, they use more water than hand-washing, and they are simply not a "required" part of the NYC/etc rental market. If you're looking to rent in, say, Tempe, you might think a place without a dishwasher is anomalous and worth skipping over. In NYC/etc, just the opposite.
But this is approaching chatfilter.
posted by jckll at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
a correction to the use of water: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/built-in-dishwasher-vs-hand-washing-which-greener.php
posted by rr at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by rr at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2010
This is definitely location/demographic dependent. In larger cities with older apartment buildings and higher rents, dishwashers are rare in anything moderately-priced. (Same with a lot of other nice amenities, like central air conditioning.) In smaller cities and suburbs, middle-class apartments tend to be newer and better-appointed, including dishwashers.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2010
We just got a dishwasher, but we live in a 1920s rowhouse that still has the original kitchen (more or less). Dishwashers are really common, to the point that when we told some people we didn't have one, they looked at us like we had told them we washed our clothes on a large flat rock by the creek.
posted by electroboy at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by electroboy at 11:54 AM on March 8, 2010
I rented six different apartments in Hampton Roads, Virginia and only two of them had dishwashers. Having a dishwasher in the apartment raised the rent tremendously.
posted by patheral at 11:55 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by patheral at 11:55 AM on March 8, 2010
I don't have a dishwasher. I live in an apartment with a tiny kitchen. I either have space to store pots & pans, or space to put a dishwasher, not both. The landlords went with 'space to store stuff', and that's fine with me.
(Southern Ontario)
posted by sandraregina at 11:59 AM on March 8, 2010
(Southern Ontario)
posted by sandraregina at 11:59 AM on March 8, 2010
I find dishwashers to be extremely uncommon in Britain. It is interesting to contrast Britain with a country like Turkey, where I have experienced that most people do have a dishwasher. I can't really think of a reason as to why so many people don't have them over here. Maybe it's due to utility costs.
posted by jpcooper at 11:59 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by jpcooper at 11:59 AM on March 8, 2010
Dishwashers are basically just sanitizer machines. Most of the real washing has to take place before the dishes are actually "washed" by the machine. If you have to get most of the food and gunk off the dishes before they go in, why go through the expense of installing a dishwasher just to run hot water over them?
posted by dozo at 12:08 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by dozo at 12:08 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
of the six or so apartments that i've lived in (all in the midwest-ish), only two had dishwashers. and only one of them had a washer dryer that came with the place. i've been with the same landlord for three years now and in two different apartments. as they are renovating kitchens in their buildings, they're putting in dishwashers, but it raises the rent a lot and costs them enough that not all the units are done.
posted by itsacover at 12:12 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by itsacover at 12:12 PM on March 8, 2010
NYC here, lack of space, unwillingness on the part of landlord, and general lack of necessity. There isn't the space to store all of the dishes that would fill a dishwasher, so it's more practical for us to wash by hand. Didn't have one in Washington DC, either. They're easier to get by than without than you would think.
posted by amicamentis at 12:12 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by amicamentis at 12:12 PM on March 8, 2010
Dishwashers are basically just sanitizer machines. Most of the real washing has to take place before the dishes are actually "washed" by the machine. If you have to get most of the food and gunk off the dishes before they go in, why go through the expense of installing a dishwasher just to run hot water over them?
You need a better (or newer) dishwasher.
I'll add that if you live in an area with a lot of older homes, it can be unusual to find a house with a dishwasher, simply because its often difficult to retrofit lovely old handcrafted cabinetry to accommodate a dishwasher. In my former house, the counters were actually too narrow for a dishwasher to fit - it would have been significantly wider than the cabinets.
So: It depends where you are. New house = dishwasher. Older homes or apartments = cost outweighs convenience.
posted by anastasiav at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
You need a better (or newer) dishwasher.
I'll add that if you live in an area with a lot of older homes, it can be unusual to find a house with a dishwasher, simply because its often difficult to retrofit lovely old handcrafted cabinetry to accommodate a dishwasher. In my former house, the counters were actually too narrow for a dishwasher to fit - it would have been significantly wider than the cabinets.
So: It depends where you are. New house = dishwasher. Older homes or apartments = cost outweighs convenience.
posted by anastasiav at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Dishwashers aren't that expensive. It's a space and logistical issue many times (echoing amicamentis). The appliance takes up a fair amount of space and it has to be located near the kitchen sink for the plumbing. In older places it's just not possible to fit a dishwasher into an old kitchen, so people go without. But, if you're like me and you were raised in a household with a dishwasher - going without is just not cool. I love my dishwasher. My dirty kitchen is less dirty because I have a dishwasher.
posted by nnk at 12:20 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by nnk at 12:20 PM on March 8, 2010
I'm 36 and I think I've only lived in a house with a dishwasher once, for a semester at school — and then I thought it was a piece of crap that didn't get the dishes really clean. My parents do have one now, but they didn't get it until years after I'd moved out on my own. If you're poor and live in crappy rentals, and even if you buy lower-priced homes as I have twice, they are less common. I am planning on installing one when I renovate my kitchen next year, however.
posted by orange swan at 12:23 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by orange swan at 12:23 PM on March 8, 2010
Also, NYC-centric, but if you're in a city where kitchens are the least important room in an apartment because nobody eats at home, then this could explain it. Kitchens are places to store condiments and some bowls and silverware for takeout, but seriously, the quality-to-cost ratio in NYC makes dining out very appealing, especially to the rich people who actually can afford to live in Manhattan or near-in boroughs.
Note that farther out into the boroughs, dishwashers are more common.
posted by zpousman at 12:32 PM on March 8, 2010
Note that farther out into the boroughs, dishwashers are more common.
posted by zpousman at 12:32 PM on March 8, 2010
FWIW, I live in Michigan, USA, and everyone I personally know has a dishwasher. Every apartment I've ever lived in had a dishwasher as well. I didn't have to specifically look for that feature either, it was a "given". In fact, I know at least 2 people who don't own a microwave, but they own a dishwasher.
posted by Vorteks at 12:32 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by Vorteks at 12:32 PM on March 8, 2010
Plenty of modern dishwashers don't look like dishwashers. For example I've seen a couple of DishDrawers which look like a normal kitchen drawer (when it's closed) until a closer look shows the small electronic panel on the front. So you might not even be noticing the ones that are there.
posted by shelleycat at 12:47 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by shelleycat at 12:47 PM on March 8, 2010
Dishwashers are basically just sanitizer machines. Most of the real washing has to take place before the dishes are actually "washed" by the machine. If you have to get most of the food and gunk off the dishes before they go in, why go through the expense of installing a dishwasher just to run hot water over them?
You need a better (or newer) dishwasher.
Yep. Our Bosch will scrub the shit out of any baked on, caked on crap. The manual says not to rinse.
posted by fixedgear at 12:51 PM on March 8, 2010
You need a better (or newer) dishwasher.
Yep. Our Bosch will scrub the shit out of any baked on, caked on crap. The manual says not to rinse.
posted by fixedgear at 12:51 PM on March 8, 2010
Lifelong Californian and apartment dweller here. I've never had a dishwasher, but then I've never lived in a building that was built after WWII.
posted by chez shoes at 1:12 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by chez shoes at 1:12 PM on March 8, 2010
Even in older homes, dishwashers are extremely common. I once wrote a blog about finding appliances for my 1920's home. Houses of that vintage don't always have standard counter depths which makes finding a built in dishwasher difficult. I get search hits every single week for "21 inch dishwasher". People are trying to get dishwashers installed, even in houses where hook-ups and construction make installation difficult.
posted by 26.2 at 1:24 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by 26.2 at 1:24 PM on March 8, 2010
I'm 40, and since leaving college at 22 have lived in (counting) eight houses and apartments. Have never had a dishwasher. This includes two houses we've owned (Seattle, built 1916 and 1946 respectively) and the rental we're living in now (Boston area, built probably 60s, kitchen clearly remodeled in the 80s).
We're a family of four and it'd be great to have one, but we've survived just fine this far.
posted by Sublimity at 1:44 PM on March 8, 2010
We're a family of four and it'd be great to have one, but we've survived just fine this far.
posted by Sublimity at 1:44 PM on March 8, 2010
Alas, no dishwasher in my (1951) house. If I stay in it, though, there certainly will be...
In older houses, plumbing can be a real issue--I remember a professor at the U of C trying to get a dishwasher for her 19th c. home, and being told that they'd have to rip out the pipes and start over.
posted by thomas j wise at 1:47 PM on March 8, 2010
In older houses, plumbing can be a real issue--I remember a professor at the U of C trying to get a dishwasher for her 19th c. home, and being told that they'd have to rip out the pipes and start over.
posted by thomas j wise at 1:47 PM on March 8, 2010
Unlike other appliances that make our lives easier such as washers, dryers, microwaves, toaster ovens which clean our clothes and cook our food for us how come the dishwasher is not as prevalent in households?
Few of the bajillion twenty-something unmarried people living in NYC and Brooklyn have dishwashers because our buildings are old and we'd rather spend money on booze and brunch, not living amenities. FWIW, we only have one of those devices you listed (a toaster!) in our apartment, even though we all make decent salaries.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:49 PM on March 8, 2010
Few of the bajillion twenty-something unmarried people living in NYC and Brooklyn have dishwashers because our buildings are old and we'd rather spend money on booze and brunch, not living amenities. FWIW, we only have one of those devices you listed (a toaster!) in our apartment, even though we all make decent salaries.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:49 PM on March 8, 2010
I am planning on installing one when I renovate my kitchen next year, however.
I think orange swan makes a telling point. I don't imagine very many people renovating a dishwasher-less kitchen these days would go through the trouble and expense and not put in a dishwasher, outside of really space constrained housing markets, at least not in north america. The people that own homes and can't afford dishwashers probably can't afford to remodel a kitchen, either, so they're likely stuck with kitchens that haven't been updated in decades, if ever.
posted by 6550 at 2:20 PM on March 8, 2010
I think orange swan makes a telling point. I don't imagine very many people renovating a dishwasher-less kitchen these days would go through the trouble and expense and not put in a dishwasher, outside of really space constrained housing markets, at least not in north america. The people that own homes and can't afford dishwashers probably can't afford to remodel a kitchen, either, so they're likely stuck with kitchens that haven't been updated in decades, if ever.
posted by 6550 at 2:20 PM on March 8, 2010
The smaller, cheaper, more poorly maintained, or converted-from-single-family-home apartments in which I lived had no dishwasher. If they break, the landlord is looking at a good possibility of water damage, most rentals (here in Philly) have to include the water with the rent, and lower-end dishwashers aren't necessarily very water-efficient, yet do a crap job actually washing the dishes.
But I'm the only person I know who has a (remodeled) kitchen with no dishwasher (by choice.)
posted by desuetude at 3:11 PM on March 8, 2010
But I'm the only person I know who has a (remodeled) kitchen with no dishwasher (by choice.)
posted by desuetude at 3:11 PM on March 8, 2010
I've only had one dishwasher in my entire life, and I had to remodel my kitchen to get it. In older apartments/houses, the counters are often too shallow to accommodate even the smallest dishwasher. I remodeled my entire kitchen just to get 4 more inches of counter depth. So, very much not worth it for many folks.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:36 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:36 PM on March 8, 2010
tl; dr but I have a dishwasher. However, I never use it since I live alone and never accumulate enough dirty dishes to justify using it. (Also, I don't ever buy the requisite dishwasher soap.) I wish the landlord hadn't installed the dishwasher because it takes up storage space, and landlords use installation of unnecessary appliances to increases my rent.
posted by Rash at 4:41 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by Rash at 4:41 PM on March 8, 2010
Dishwashers are basically just sanitizer machines. Most of the real washing has to take place before the dishes are actually "washed" by the machine.
No way. Can't wash the dishes? Go ahead and break and you'll be replaced for $200. Dishwashers are surprisingly easy to install, compared to just about any other plumbing appliance. They have a huge economy of scale, all the normal dishwashers use standardized plastic liners and such. If you want anything even slightly special, like a few inches narrower, the price soars.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:07 PM on March 8, 2010
No way. Can't wash the dishes? Go ahead and break and you'll be replaced for $200. Dishwashers are surprisingly easy to install, compared to just about any other plumbing appliance. They have a huge economy of scale, all the normal dishwashers use standardized plastic liners and such. If you want anything even slightly special, like a few inches narrower, the price soars.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:07 PM on March 8, 2010
Here in the UK only about 1 in 3 houses have one. I would guess due to our small kitchens.
I have one but I don't use it because it takes 4 times longer than just using the sink (and makes a lot of noise in a small apartment) plus all those lovely detergents are about 10 x the price of simple washing up liquid.
posted by Lanark at 3:24 AM on March 9, 2010
I have one but I don't use it because it takes 4 times longer than just using the sink (and makes a lot of noise in a small apartment) plus all those lovely detergents are about 10 x the price of simple washing up liquid.
posted by Lanark at 3:24 AM on March 9, 2010
Doesn't a dishwasher require a garbage disposal? I've heard that some neighborhoods have plumbing that can't take the extra stuff that goes in the sink with a disposal -- I mean that upgrading the house's plumbing isn't enough, it is a neighborhood-wide problem.
posted by SandiBeech at 12:04 PM on March 9, 2010
posted by SandiBeech at 12:04 PM on March 9, 2010
Doesn't a dishwasher require a garbage disposal?
Nope. I've lived in several places that had a DW but no disposal.
posted by peep at 12:11 PM on March 9, 2010
Nope. I've lived in several places that had a DW but no disposal.
posted by peep at 12:11 PM on March 9, 2010
"I wish the landlord hadn't installed the dishwasher because it takes up storage space."
Heh. You can use the dishwasher as storage space!
"Doesn't a dishwasher require a garbage disposal?"
As peep said, nope. I've never lived in a house with a disposal, but have frequently had a dishwasher. Now, it is a good idea to get the large solid debris off your dishes before putting them in the dishwasher, but no one needs a disposal to do that.
To answer the original question, I would say what others have said -- in some areas, most houses do have them, but where they don't, it's because of reasons such as lack of space, lack of funds, or just not really finding them necessary.
posted by litlnemo at 3:29 PM on March 9, 2010
Heh. You can use the dishwasher as storage space!
"Doesn't a dishwasher require a garbage disposal?"
As peep said, nope. I've never lived in a house with a disposal, but have frequently had a dishwasher. Now, it is a good idea to get the large solid debris off your dishes before putting them in the dishwasher, but no one needs a disposal to do that.
To answer the original question, I would say what others have said -- in some areas, most houses do have them, but where they don't, it's because of reasons such as lack of space, lack of funds, or just not really finding them necessary.
posted by litlnemo at 3:29 PM on March 9, 2010
I'm in the UK and have never had one, and wouldn't take one. I'm only cooking for 1-2 people most of the time, and it honestly is quicker to just do the dishes in the sink when I'm done. If it's baked on, it can soak a bit. I also never use a dryer, which might surprise Americans - it takes 10mins max to put clothes on an airer and leave them to dry, and no electricity.
I would not never ever never live in a place without a washing machine, though. Thankfully it's rarer now, but some rental places don't come with them.
posted by mippy at 10:24 AM on May 9, 2010
I would not never ever never live in a place without a washing machine, though. Thankfully it's rarer now, but some rental places don't come with them.
posted by mippy at 10:24 AM on May 9, 2010
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