Consequences of parent lying about me on job application?
February 16, 2010 9:14 AM Subscribe
My bipolar & (recently diagnosed) BPD mother, living on her own due to trial separation from husband, is trying to get a job and is planning to lie on applications/resumes...about me. Kicker: one place she is applying to is my employer. WTF do I do. Multiple questions inside.
She has a spotty work history due to her husband being the main breadwinner for ~20 years (and probably also due to her mental illnesses). The main issue lately has been that she has no useable references. Some weeks ago, she called me to inform me that she was going to put me down as a former colleague at the county public defender's office—when in fact she was a secretary, I was a file clerk, and we had basically nothing to do with each other.
I was sufficiently surprised by this announcement that I just went "uh huh" in my usual way and assumed I would never even get a phone call. This assumption has proven correct so far, but in the intervening weeks, the fact that this is fraud has begun to sink in.
I have worked as a lecturer for 10 years at the same campus of a state system. We live in different cities. Her latest voicemail alluded to applying to that same system, but in her city, and (and this is the head-scratching part) she said she did not indicate that I work at that system... which makes me wonder what she did indicate.
My wife and I are pretty sure this is another one of her manic episodes. (Previous episodes have included spontaneous midnight vacation trips across country and opening two restaurants that quickly failed.) She is aware of her condition, but what I know of the disorders suggests she is unaware that she's in this state. It doesn't help that, due to this trial separation, she has been living alone in a tiny apartment with only her dog for a month and a half. ("This will not end well," we agreed when we helped her move in.) We have no idea how closely she has communicated with her husband during this interval, nor whether he's aware of any of this. In the past, however, he has generally capitulated to her whims.
So, my questions are:
1) If someone from the system calls me, will it sufficiently cover my ass to just say "she's mentally ill"? (I naturally have no intention of actually lying to help her get a job, but I hope it won't be necessary for her to know that.)
2) If she is hired, and her employer discovers she has lied, obviously termination is likely (she has said "So what, I'm not working now"), but could criminal proceedings follow?
3) How do you tell your hypersensitive bipolar/BPD low-self-esteem mother that she's having a manic episode? FWIW, I may be the only person in the world she trusts, and I'd prefer to avoid endangering that. There's her safety, for one thing... plus she has disowned both of her stepchildren for transgressions real and perceived—then later forgiven them, then disowned them again.
She has a spotty work history due to her husband being the main breadwinner for ~20 years (and probably also due to her mental illnesses). The main issue lately has been that she has no useable references. Some weeks ago, she called me to inform me that she was going to put me down as a former colleague at the county public defender's office—when in fact she was a secretary, I was a file clerk, and we had basically nothing to do with each other.
I was sufficiently surprised by this announcement that I just went "uh huh" in my usual way and assumed I would never even get a phone call. This assumption has proven correct so far, but in the intervening weeks, the fact that this is fraud has begun to sink in.
I have worked as a lecturer for 10 years at the same campus of a state system. We live in different cities. Her latest voicemail alluded to applying to that same system, but in her city, and (and this is the head-scratching part) she said she did not indicate that I work at that system... which makes me wonder what she did indicate.
My wife and I are pretty sure this is another one of her manic episodes. (Previous episodes have included spontaneous midnight vacation trips across country and opening two restaurants that quickly failed.) She is aware of her condition, but what I know of the disorders suggests she is unaware that she's in this state. It doesn't help that, due to this trial separation, she has been living alone in a tiny apartment with only her dog for a month and a half. ("This will not end well," we agreed when we helped her move in.) We have no idea how closely she has communicated with her husband during this interval, nor whether he's aware of any of this. In the past, however, he has generally capitulated to her whims.
So, my questions are:
1) If someone from the system calls me, will it sufficiently cover my ass to just say "she's mentally ill"? (I naturally have no intention of actually lying to help her get a job, but I hope it won't be necessary for her to know that.)
2) If she is hired, and her employer discovers she has lied, obviously termination is likely (she has said "So what, I'm not working now"), but could criminal proceedings follow?
3) How do you tell your hypersensitive bipolar/BPD low-self-esteem mother that she's having a manic episode? FWIW, I may be the only person in the world she trusts, and I'd prefer to avoid endangering that. There's her safety, for one thing... plus she has disowned both of her stepchildren for transgressions real and perceived—then later forgiven them, then disowned them again.
You don't know what she has put on her resume or what she has told to other people.
You can't control what she writes on her resume or what she tells other people.
It's not your responsibility to monitor what she puts on her resume or what she tells other people (to a certain degree, of course).
If a potential employer does phone you for a reference check, tell the truth about your work situation. Do not editorialize and mention your mother's mental illness. That's none of your business in this context, and completely unfair to your mother.
But if she has lied on her application about her working relationship with you, you don't have to back her up.
As for communicating with your mother, you need to communicate clearly about what she can and cannot do or say about her working relationship with you. It's as easy as saying, "Mom, you cannot use me as a reference because we did not work together. If an employer phones me up, I will have to tell them the truth."
Does your mother really need someone telling her she's being "manic"? So she's being manic - you can't control that. Instead, focus on "I" statements:
"I'm feeling stressed about this, Mom."
"I'm worried about the consequences."
Don't use "you" statements: "You are being manic."
If she disowns you, so what? You can't control that. She is living with a mental illness, and she should not be able to use her mental illness to control you.
Reference checks, by the way, are the last stage of the hiring process - a potential employer only does this when they are ready to hire someone.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2010 [9 favorites]
You can't control what she writes on her resume or what she tells other people.
It's not your responsibility to monitor what she puts on her resume or what she tells other people (to a certain degree, of course).
If a potential employer does phone you for a reference check, tell the truth about your work situation. Do not editorialize and mention your mother's mental illness. That's none of your business in this context, and completely unfair to your mother.
But if she has lied on her application about her working relationship with you, you don't have to back her up.
As for communicating with your mother, you need to communicate clearly about what she can and cannot do or say about her working relationship with you. It's as easy as saying, "Mom, you cannot use me as a reference because we did not work together. If an employer phones me up, I will have to tell them the truth."
Does your mother really need someone telling her she's being "manic"? So she's being manic - you can't control that. Instead, focus on "I" statements:
"I'm feeling stressed about this, Mom."
"I'm worried about the consequences."
Don't use "you" statements: "You are being manic."
If she disowns you, so what? You can't control that. She is living with a mental illness, and she should not be able to use her mental illness to control you.
Reference checks, by the way, are the last stage of the hiring process - a potential employer only does this when they are ready to hire someone.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2010 [9 favorites]
Oh, man.
Don't say that she's mentally ill; just say that you are unable to provide a reference. Saying that she's mentally ill, however true that may be, will probably get back to her and bite you in the ass, as you've alluded to in your last paragraph.
I'm really sorry you're going through this -- all of you.
posted by Madamina at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2010
Don't say that she's mentally ill; just say that you are unable to provide a reference. Saying that she's mentally ill, however true that may be, will probably get back to her and bite you in the ass, as you've alluded to in your last paragraph.
I'm really sorry you're going through this -- all of you.
posted by Madamina at 9:23 AM on February 16, 2010
You worked at the same office; she indicated you as a former colleague. I don't see how this is fraud.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:25 AM on February 16, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by mr_roboto at 9:25 AM on February 16, 2010 [10 favorites]
You can not say that she's mentally ill. You do need to make it clear that she is your mother. Perhaps you can say something along the lines of "I'm not sure whether she indicated to you that she is my mother, and that we worked in different departments, or that I'm not even sure how long in fact that position continued." Maybe you could also indicate that being your mother, you're not too sure what information should be communicated, or ask whether it is a work reference or a character reference. If you do this with the right tone of voice, you will have said nothing which could affect your position, and you will have said nothing which will explicitly exclude her, but the tone will be enough for this not to be a glowing reference, and it may well raise some doubts and that should be enough to exclude her from the position. Assuming that's the goal here. You can also tell your mother that she must ask to be a reference and that if they call you will have to say that she is your mother and that you didn't work together.
posted by kch at 9:38 AM on February 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kch at 9:38 AM on February 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ethically, you do have to disclose that she is your parent; that should make any employer hesitant to accept the reference. You can always just recommend they call the employer and verify dates of employment. She should call employers and tell them they only have permission to verify dates of employment and job title. You shouldn't lie for her; it just gets messy and doesn't really help.
She sounds like her mental illness is a disability. She should apply for disability status, and be persistent about it This would help her get Medicare/Medicaid, treatment, occupational therapy, which she badly needs. Dealing with a mentally ill relative is exhausting, and you need all the help you can get.
posted by theora55 at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
She sounds like her mental illness is a disability. She should apply for disability status, and be persistent about it This would help her get Medicare/Medicaid, treatment, occupational therapy, which she badly needs. Dealing with a mentally ill relative is exhausting, and you need all the help you can get.
posted by theora55 at 10:00 AM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Manic or not (and I do understand the trickiness of wanting to support her and maintain a relationship here), I think it's very unfair for you to give your mother the impression that you could be a reference for her when you feel that you can't. As KokyuRyu says, a reference is the last stage of the hiring process, and you'd be costing your mom a job she otherwise might well have gotten.
I think you should tell her as gently as you can or need to that you can't do it. Tell her that you can't really talk about her as a worker because she's your mom, tell her that employers will find out the relationship and not take her or the reference seriously, suggest other people she might be able to use. But don't let her think you'll do it and then say things that would hurt her chances.
Consequences for you? I think that if you tell people she's mentally ill, you'll shock them and come across as callous and dramatic. I wouldn't be surprised if word got around. You'd also be putting the hiring people in a bad place regarding rights and employment law - after all, they were going to hire her until they got the reference that contained that information... And you know, plenty of "mentally ill" people have jobs, it's not an automatic disqualifier! I think if you get put on the spot the best thing you can do is act bemused but positive; "She's my mom actually, I didn't know she'd done that. I love her of course, but I don't think I can be a reference for her!"
The problem then, is that you do know that she did that! Seems unlikely it would hurt you with your employer, but also seems seriously unfair to your mother. You need to address this with her, and I think others are 100% right to say that you should focus on the behaiour and on your concerns for possible consequences, and not on whether she is or isn't in a manic state. Because you'd still be concerned if she wasn't manic or diagnosed BPD and was doing things that didn't seem wise, right?
posted by crabintheocean at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think you should tell her as gently as you can or need to that you can't do it. Tell her that you can't really talk about her as a worker because she's your mom, tell her that employers will find out the relationship and not take her or the reference seriously, suggest other people she might be able to use. But don't let her think you'll do it and then say things that would hurt her chances.
Consequences for you? I think that if you tell people she's mentally ill, you'll shock them and come across as callous and dramatic. I wouldn't be surprised if word got around. You'd also be putting the hiring people in a bad place regarding rights and employment law - after all, they were going to hire her until they got the reference that contained that information... And you know, plenty of "mentally ill" people have jobs, it's not an automatic disqualifier! I think if you get put on the spot the best thing you can do is act bemused but positive; "She's my mom actually, I didn't know she'd done that. I love her of course, but I don't think I can be a reference for her!"
The problem then, is that you do know that she did that! Seems unlikely it would hurt you with your employer, but also seems seriously unfair to your mother. You need to address this with her, and I think others are 100% right to say that you should focus on the behaiour and on your concerns for possible consequences, and not on whether she is or isn't in a manic state. Because you'd still be concerned if she wasn't manic or diagnosed BPD and was doing things that didn't seem wise, right?
posted by crabintheocean at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
How do you tell your hypersensitive bipolar/BPD low-self-esteem mother that she's having a manic episode?
Could you help her come to that conclusion on her own by asking her about how she's been feeling lately? Hold her hand and ask her if she's been sleeping and how well, whether or not she's having racing thoughts, etc.
Also, could you find out whether or not she's taking her meds? If not, you might be able to encourage her to take them, or you might choose to contact her doctor. If she is taking them, you may want to contact her doctor as well - to let the doctor know that the drugs are not working to reduce her mania.
Could you contact her husband and find out what he did when she was having manic episodes?
posted by kitcat at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2010
Could you help her come to that conclusion on her own by asking her about how she's been feeling lately? Hold her hand and ask her if she's been sleeping and how well, whether or not she's having racing thoughts, etc.
Also, could you find out whether or not she's taking her meds? If not, you might be able to encourage her to take them, or you might choose to contact her doctor. If she is taking them, you may want to contact her doctor as well - to let the doctor know that the drugs are not working to reduce her mania.
Could you contact her husband and find out what he did when she was having manic episodes?
posted by kitcat at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2010
Does your institution have a policy regarding employment references? Many large organizations do, and they tend to be something along the lines of: "Say nothing because you are not qualified to know what might later become legally significant. Refer any inquiries to Human Resources, who will only confirm the person's position and dates of employment."
If there is such a thing, it should shield you rather neatly from having to get involved. Otherwise, I agree, if put on the spot you need only say that you cannot confirm what she's told them.
posted by Naberius at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
If there is such a thing, it should shield you rather neatly from having to get involved. Otherwise, I agree, if put on the spot you need only say that you cannot confirm what she's told them.
posted by Naberius at 10:54 AM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Does your mother really need someone telling her she's being "manic"? So she's being manic - you can't control that.
Why is manic in quotation marks here?
If she disowns you, so what? You can't control that. She is living with a mental illness, and she should not be able to use her mental illness to control you.
While it's absolutely true that you can't control your mother's behaviour, the attitude expressed above is disturbingly flippant. I'm suprised by the number of favorites this answer has received.
Some things to consider:
While manic, people are not entirely rational. As such, it can be extremely difficult or even impossible to reason with them.
Bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder are very serious illnesses. They both have considerable suicide rates associated with them.
OP, I'm not sure how knowledgeable you are about bipolar and BPD. If you're not that knowledgeable, please do seek out some good information. Hopefully this will help you to figure out how best to address your mother's behaviour. I am not extraordinarily wise when it comes to these illnesses, but I have type II bipolar, as does my mother. And one psychiatrist has speculated that my mother is borderline, so I've done a fair amount of reading on it.
BTW, my intention is not to start a derail argument and I have no interest in participating in one.
posted by kitcat at 2:33 PM on February 16, 2010
Why is manic in quotation marks here?
If she disowns you, so what? You can't control that. She is living with a mental illness, and she should not be able to use her mental illness to control you.
While it's absolutely true that you can't control your mother's behaviour, the attitude expressed above is disturbingly flippant. I'm suprised by the number of favorites this answer has received.
Some things to consider:
While manic, people are not entirely rational. As such, it can be extremely difficult or even impossible to reason with them.
Bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder are very serious illnesses. They both have considerable suicide rates associated with them.
OP, I'm not sure how knowledgeable you are about bipolar and BPD. If you're not that knowledgeable, please do seek out some good information. Hopefully this will help you to figure out how best to address your mother's behaviour. I am not extraordinarily wise when it comes to these illnesses, but I have type II bipolar, as does my mother. And one psychiatrist has speculated that my mother is borderline, so I've done a fair amount of reading on it.
BTW, my intention is not to start a derail argument and I have no interest in participating in one.
posted by kitcat at 2:33 PM on February 16, 2010
The best thing you can do is learn more about the disorder yourself (for example, it is not true that a bipolar person can't know when they are manic or not, yes they can).
I have been in your position. My mother is bipolar, as is my brother, and also a dear friend of mine. I am also bipolar. I know what it's like to deal with a person in a manic state (boy do I know), and I also know what it's like to have all of my every action scrutinized by "caring people" who in effect deny me any agency. I know the tightrope that must be walked.
Treat her the same as you would any former co-worker who was using you as a work reference. If you don't feel comfortable being used as a reference, FOR WHATEVER REASON, just tell her that. I know that may be very difficult but right now you are proposing doing all manner of things behind her back (i.e. telling a potential employer that she is mentally ill) or in a condescending fashion. There need to be some clearer boundaries here. You are not responsible for her life. Learning more about the illness and how to set boundaries will be a tremendous boon for everyone involved.
What you can do is ask her how things are going with her doctors, treatments, health, etc. Especially in light of all of the changes recently. Ask questions, don't make accusations, and don't try to co-opt her decisions. You won't be able to do it and it will end up hurting both of you.
posted by Danila at 5:45 PM on February 16, 2010
I have been in your position. My mother is bipolar, as is my brother, and also a dear friend of mine. I am also bipolar. I know what it's like to deal with a person in a manic state (boy do I know), and I also know what it's like to have all of my every action scrutinized by "caring people" who in effect deny me any agency. I know the tightrope that must be walked.
Treat her the same as you would any former co-worker who was using you as a work reference. If you don't feel comfortable being used as a reference, FOR WHATEVER REASON, just tell her that. I know that may be very difficult but right now you are proposing doing all manner of things behind her back (i.e. telling a potential employer that she is mentally ill) or in a condescending fashion. There need to be some clearer boundaries here. You are not responsible for her life. Learning more about the illness and how to set boundaries will be a tremendous boon for everyone involved.
What you can do is ask her how things are going with her doctors, treatments, health, etc. Especially in light of all of the changes recently. Ask questions, don't make accusations, and don't try to co-opt her decisions. You won't be able to do it and it will end up hurting both of you.
posted by Danila at 5:45 PM on February 16, 2010
This is tough. My mom has bpd too. It can be controlled with right medication. First do tell her she needs treatment. My experience with my mom is that she will listen but she might scream and cry and yell a lot first. Make sure you approach her in as non threatening manner as possible. I like to say "you need help" or something like that rather than saying she's crazy or mentally ill or manic. For my mom, labels mean all the difference. Ymmv. Don't lie for her. Avoiding the call altogether might be your best option. You might want to talk to your mom about applying for social security benefits. From your description it seems like she's to sick to work. You can get disability awards based on mental illness. Good luck.
posted by bananafish at 3:04 PM on February 17, 2010
posted by bananafish at 3:04 PM on February 17, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
If she lied about what she did at that job, you can simply say that you do not believe she held that position. You don't need to imply that you even knew she listed you as a reference before they called you, if you even get called. I would not say she's mentally ill, as they can't take that into account for employment purposes. It's the same as saying "oh, she's pregnant" or "she's diabetic." It's information a potential employer cannot act upon, and if they do know, they can get in legal trouble if they choose not to hire her and she believes it's on that basis.
I guess I don't understand the question. Are you wanting to state your real fears and objections to someone about her ability to hold down a job, or are you just afraid for your job?
posted by mikeh at 9:21 AM on February 16, 2010 [1 favorite]