Network connection problem. Help me get my upload going!
February 11, 2010 5:00 AM Subscribe
Any network connection experts here? I need some serious help, little to no upload speed on a 10Mbps line...
Alright, this is part two of a question I had asked a couple of weeks ago.
So I purchased the Intel PRO/1000 GT PCI card for my Windows 7 tower as suggested, no luck; with or without using my 3-week-new router (TP-Link TL-WR1043ND), it is the same slow upload speed at around 12.0kb/s and cuts out frequently. Tested as well with Avast and firewall off on a clean startup. Just to make sure it wasn't Windows, I installed a fresh copy of Ubuntu 9.10 onto a secondary drive and the same slow upload speed occurs, with or without the router.
Trying my Vista 32 bit laptop again (running a Generic Marvell Yukon 88E8071 based Ethernet Controller) testing the connection without going through the router and now apparently on this machine the download speed is slow, but the upload speed is fast (I originally thought the connection was okay in the original post; didn't test thoroughly). I installed a clean Windows XP SP3 32-Bit onto a secondary drive just to confirm this. So I tried again on both OS with the router, and now it becomes the same as my tower computer, fast download, slow upload. Problem with the router as well? Reset the router to its default factory settings, slow upload, with or without the router's firewall.
Now I try different cables, an old CAT 5, a CAT 5e, and even a CAT 6, still no fast upload speeds on both tower and laptop with each different operating system. I looked at the original cable provided by the building — it is a Signalmax brand CAT 5e cable and it looks (1) like (2) this at the plug end with two colored-pair of wires (what is this configuration called?) unlike my other cables which all had eight wires packed inside. It took some investigating, but apparently if I use my own cables, the phone stops working (interference?) as the Ethernet and phone jacks are right beside each other in one panel, so I have no choice but to use the building's cable if I want calls to come through.
I now call over a technician from my ISP and my problem baffled him as well. But he had an HP netbook with a Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet controller and tested that the line was fine. Fast download and fast upload on speedtest sites and FTP, on both Windows XP and Windows 7 (both 32-bit). Nothing was fixed on my end since he can confirm the line was fine and he left.
Just hours ago, I tried advanced stuff for the 3 different network adapters like toggling Flow Control, Receive Side Scaling, trying all the different Speed & Duplex settings, still no fast upload speeds [do note that other than "Auto Negotiation" or "1000 Mbps Full Duplex" I get an orange light on the NIC (all 3), otherwise it gives a green light].
So now what are my options? I do not want to believe that both my machines, 3 NICs, and my router all have problems. Is there anything else I can try? Could it be the motherboard? The BIOS? Should I buy a Broadcom NetLink NIC to see if it'll make a difference? What about my router? How does that explain the fast upload but slow download speed on the Vista laptop without using the router?
With my Windows 7 tower, on most speedtest sites, the upload part doesn't even go. If it helps any of the experts who are reading this, here's a couple of Network Diagnostic Tool results: http://pastebin.ws/d0ik82
In Gmail, I can't even attached a 120kb PDF file as the upload speed is too slow and times out. FTP doesn't even go. It is suppose to be a 10Mbps line but the upload speed is nowhere near (at least on my machines).
Please help!
Alright, this is part two of a question I had asked a couple of weeks ago.
So I purchased the Intel PRO/1000 GT PCI card for my Windows 7 tower as suggested, no luck; with or without using my 3-week-new router (TP-Link TL-WR1043ND), it is the same slow upload speed at around 12.0kb/s and cuts out frequently. Tested as well with Avast and firewall off on a clean startup. Just to make sure it wasn't Windows, I installed a fresh copy of Ubuntu 9.10 onto a secondary drive and the same slow upload speed occurs, with or without the router.
Trying my Vista 32 bit laptop again (running a Generic Marvell Yukon 88E8071 based Ethernet Controller) testing the connection without going through the router and now apparently on this machine the download speed is slow, but the upload speed is fast (I originally thought the connection was okay in the original post; didn't test thoroughly). I installed a clean Windows XP SP3 32-Bit onto a secondary drive just to confirm this. So I tried again on both OS with the router, and now it becomes the same as my tower computer, fast download, slow upload. Problem with the router as well? Reset the router to its default factory settings, slow upload, with or without the router's firewall.
Now I try different cables, an old CAT 5, a CAT 5e, and even a CAT 6, still no fast upload speeds on both tower and laptop with each different operating system. I looked at the original cable provided by the building — it is a Signalmax brand CAT 5e cable and it looks (1) like (2) this at the plug end with two colored-pair of wires (what is this configuration called?) unlike my other cables which all had eight wires packed inside. It took some investigating, but apparently if I use my own cables, the phone stops working (interference?) as the Ethernet and phone jacks are right beside each other in one panel, so I have no choice but to use the building's cable if I want calls to come through.
I now call over a technician from my ISP and my problem baffled him as well. But he had an HP netbook with a Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet controller and tested that the line was fine. Fast download and fast upload on speedtest sites and FTP, on both Windows XP and Windows 7 (both 32-bit). Nothing was fixed on my end since he can confirm the line was fine and he left.
Just hours ago, I tried advanced stuff for the 3 different network adapters like toggling Flow Control, Receive Side Scaling, trying all the different Speed & Duplex settings, still no fast upload speeds [do note that other than "Auto Negotiation" or "1000 Mbps Full Duplex" I get an orange light on the NIC (all 3), otherwise it gives a green light].
So now what are my options? I do not want to believe that both my machines, 3 NICs, and my router all have problems. Is there anything else I can try? Could it be the motherboard? The BIOS? Should I buy a Broadcom NetLink NIC to see if it'll make a difference? What about my router? How does that explain the fast upload but slow download speed on the Vista laptop without using the router?
With my Windows 7 tower, on most speedtest sites, the upload part doesn't even go. If it helps any of the experts who are reading this, here's a couple of Network Diagnostic Tool results: http://pastebin.ws/d0ik82
In Gmail, I can't even attached a 120kb PDF file as the upload speed is too slow and times out. FTP doesn't even go. It is suppose to be a 10Mbps line but the upload speed is nowhere near (at least on my machines).
Please help!
Just to clarify - did the ISP technician test speeds by bypassing your router, or was he plugged into it rather than directly into the line?
I would, personally, ignore any results from a Vista machine. I've had so many networking problems with Vista that it's just not worth troubleshooting. What happens when you transfer large files between two non-Vista machines?
Also, the cable you're seeing with only four wires is fine for up to cat5e. Only two pair are used. It sounds like the building may be using two pair for network and two pair for the phone. Not strictly optimal, but also not uncommon.
posted by krisak at 7:02 AM on February 11, 2010
I would, personally, ignore any results from a Vista machine. I've had so many networking problems with Vista that it's just not worth troubleshooting. What happens when you transfer large files between two non-Vista machines?
Also, the cable you're seeing with only four wires is fine for up to cat5e. Only two pair are used. It sounds like the building may be using two pair for network and two pair for the phone. Not strictly optimal, but also not uncommon.
posted by krisak at 7:02 AM on February 11, 2010
Now I try different cables, an old CAT 5, a CAT 5e, and even a CAT 6, still no fast upload speeds on both tower and laptop with each different operating system. I looked at the original cable provided by the building — it is a Signalmax brand CAT 5e cable and it looks (1) like (2) this at the plug end with two colored-pair of wires (what is this configuration called?) unlike my other cables which all had eight wires packed inside. It took some investigating, but apparently if I use my own cables, the phone stops working (interference?) as the Ethernet and phone jacks are right beside each other in one panel, so I have no choice but to use the building's cable if I want calls to come through.
My best guess is some sort of compatibility issue with the variety of hardware you have and the cabling setup in the building. If you've found a NIC that works, I would probably suggest ordering one and install it as it sounds like the only combination of variables that actually worked.
What a bizarre situation.
posted by Hiker at 7:04 AM on February 11, 2010
My best guess is some sort of compatibility issue with the variety of hardware you have and the cabling setup in the building. If you've found a NIC that works, I would probably suggest ordering one and install it as it sounds like the only combination of variables that actually worked.
What a bizarre situation.
posted by Hiker at 7:04 AM on February 11, 2010
Actually, not only is that building provided cable a crossover cable, but it also appears they aren't using the standard pins (Sorry, low on coffee still) - they're using the 3rd and 4th pairs for internet... they probably used one cable and then split it out at the jack, so using a full cat5 cable with all 4 pairs will muck with the phone line - that's a possibility.
posted by TravellingDen at 7:04 AM on February 11, 2010
posted by TravellingDen at 7:04 AM on February 11, 2010
Yeah, that building-provided cable you pictured is bizarre. Like everyone else, my best guess is that the problem is you only have one Cat-5 cable in the wall going from your phone/network jack to the network closet in the building. Two pairs go to the phone jack, two pairs go to the ethernet. That'd also explain the network/phone interference (something that should never happen). It might even explain why your ISP tech's Broadcom adapter worked; maybe it was better at autosensing what pairs to use.
I'd suggest just buying another Broadcom adapter, but that won't help you if you need a router. In that case you need the router to deal with the funky wiring; everything else in your house should then be normal. I think the simplest solution is to figure out what the wiring is in your building and why that funky cable is what it is, then build a custom cable that works right.
posted by Nelson at 7:57 AM on February 11, 2010
I'd suggest just buying another Broadcom adapter, but that won't help you if you need a router. In that case you need the router to deal with the funky wiring; everything else in your house should then be normal. I think the simplest solution is to figure out what the wiring is in your building and why that funky cable is what it is, then build a custom cable that works right.
posted by Nelson at 7:57 AM on February 11, 2010
When your connection auto-negotiates, what does it auto-negotiate to? 1000Base-T requires all 4 pairs of the cable, so your building is not providing that. If you hadn't mentioned that you'd tried all the different speed and duplex settings, I'd suspect a duplex mismatch, with the building side being configured to a fixed mode. Can you find out what that mode is? It will at least make troubleshooting easier.
Don't worry about the orange light. Your NIC should have two indicator lights, one is the link and one is the speed. On Intel Adapters the link light, which is usually the top (or to the right of the clip part of the cable) is green with a valid link partner and flashes green with activity. It will flash orange for identification, but this would be abnormal. The other indicator is speed. It will be off at 10, green at 100 and orange at 1000.
posted by IanMorr at 8:04 AM on February 11, 2010
Don't worry about the orange light. Your NIC should have two indicator lights, one is the link and one is the speed. On Intel Adapters the link light, which is usually the top (or to the right of the clip part of the cable) is green with a valid link partner and flashes green with activity. It will flash orange for identification, but this would be abnormal. The other indicator is speed. It will be off at 10, green at 100 and orange at 1000.
posted by IanMorr at 8:04 AM on February 11, 2010
I think there might be some confusion about the cable you've pictured as well. I assumed you've shown us two pictures of the same end of a cable, but Nelson and TravellingDen are looking at two ends and thinking crossover. Could you clarify. Also it's hard to tell from the pics, is the red pair in 1 and 2, and the green pair in 3 and 6?
posted by IanMorr at 8:09 AM on February 11, 2010
posted by IanMorr at 8:09 AM on February 11, 2010
Response by poster: @krisak — the ISP technician tried the router first, same problem as me. Then direct connection with no problem. Transferring files between tower and laptop works fine over the router, wired and wireless, XP/Vista/7. So I doubt there is anything wrong with my router.
@IanMorr — yes, this is correct, red in 1 & 2, green in 3 & 6
@Nelson (and Hiker) — yes, I need a router, so buying that Broadcom NIC is a final option down the road
@TravellingDen — sounds advanced, will try when I have time...
"...autosensing what pairs to use" I think I just need to figure this out for the router then everything will be fine, but how?
posted by querty at 9:25 AM on February 11, 2010
@IanMorr — yes, this is correct, red in 1 & 2, green in 3 & 6
@Nelson (and Hiker) — yes, I need a router, so buying that Broadcom NIC is a final option down the road
@TravellingDen — sounds advanced, will try when I have time...
"...autosensing what pairs to use" I think I just need to figure this out for the router then everything will be fine, but how?
posted by querty at 9:25 AM on February 11, 2010
Response by poster: @IanMorr — On "Auto Negotiation", local area connection shows the speed as 1.0 Gbps; green light on the NIC (Realtek or Intel)
posted by querty at 9:28 AM on February 11, 2010
posted by querty at 9:28 AM on February 11, 2010
If the other side of your link is not set to auto negotiate, then your NIC probably will not auto negotiate to the right settings. Find out what settings the building have fixed.
Are there two lights? Are they both green?
posted by IanMorr at 11:20 AM on February 11, 2010
Are there two lights? Are they both green?
posted by IanMorr at 11:20 AM on February 11, 2010
Response by poster: Both are green on the NIC. Green lights on the router as well.
posted by querty at 4:27 PM on February 11, 2010
posted by querty at 4:27 PM on February 11, 2010
An extra debugging tip.. If the problem is the ethernet wiring, your connection between your PC and the router is not the problem. No amount of debugging that will help you. The only thing that matters is whatever's plugged into the wall. Which is your router now, or maybe your PC if you're testing a direct connection. Focus on debugging *that* connection.
Unfortunately consumer routers don't give you much in the way of diagnostic lights or debugging help. Your router manual suggests all you have is a single light (WAN on / active) and no way to see or configure the connection speed. The router does claim "One 10/100/1000M Auto-Negotiation WAN RJ45 port", the question is whether that auto-negotiation is working properly.
posted by Nelson at 6:14 PM on February 11, 2010
Unfortunately consumer routers don't give you much in the way of diagnostic lights or debugging help. Your router manual suggests all you have is a single light (WAN on / active) and no way to see or configure the connection speed. The router does claim "One 10/100/1000M Auto-Negotiation WAN RJ45 port", the question is whether that auto-negotiation is working properly.
posted by Nelson at 6:14 PM on February 11, 2010
This is most likely a cabling issue. You're seeing the flipped behaviour on upload/download speeds based upon which pair gets negotiated as TX and RX during Auto-MDI/MDIX which is extremely common in gigabit ethernet devices. The TP-Link and Marvell may not support Auto-MDI/MDIX, but the Intel card does and the switch on the other end almost assuredly does also.
As far as cables go, to connect to the wall you need to only use the Signalmax supplied by the ISP. The others should be taken out of your testing regimen--they're just adding confusion. Additionally I suggest you put the TP-Link and Laptop away and only test with your Windows 7 computer with the Intel ethernet adapter. You want to undo any changes you've made and use the standard driver settings. If you can't fall back to a clean configuration you may need to do a complete os reinstall. Windows 7 computer with Intel adapter directly connected to the wall plug with the Signalmax cable is your configuration for working this out with the ISP. Nothing else.
As a second demonstration configuration be able to efficiently setup a speed test between the laptop and Windows 7 computer using the TP-Link router as a switch only. Use your Cat5e and Cat6 cables for that.
Once you have this in place you should call the ISP and have them send the tech back out. You should be calm, but firm that the issue is not your computer. Have him test with his laptop. He will verify speed is fine and something is wrong between the port on the wall and the keyboard of your Windows computer. Next, have him replace the Signalmax cable with a new one, or use the one he was using for testing. This will likely resolve your issues. (Based on a read of your pastebin, one pair is struggling to send and is resending etc)
If it does not resolve your issues, demonstrate the working configuration with the TP-Link router. This will affirm that the Intel card is just fine.
If changing the Signalmax cable has not resolved the issue and a demonstration of your gear working with the TP-Link router as a switch is successful, you need need to back away and tell the tech you have proven it is not your problem and the ISP needs to resolve it. Be firm in this. Don't sign any paperwork that the work is completed, keep repeating yourself that the issue is not fixed and is their fault, and if he still leaves immediately call the ISP back. Keep making appointments until it is cheaper for them to fix the issue than to keep sending guys out to watch your demonstration.
This kind of tech position is sadly not well paid and usually staffed by someone with basic training. He has the ability to kick it up to someone else when he needs help, and that's what you're aiming for also. Don't let them shift blame to you. You just have to be polite but insistent.. These techs have known good cables and laptops they carry around to test--and that's probably how this one worked. He came in, plugged in his good set of hardware, showed you it worked, and then when testing your config he used your broken cable.
posted by joelr at 7:32 PM on February 11, 2010
As far as cables go, to connect to the wall you need to only use the Signalmax supplied by the ISP. The others should be taken out of your testing regimen--they're just adding confusion. Additionally I suggest you put the TP-Link and Laptop away and only test with your Windows 7 computer with the Intel ethernet adapter. You want to undo any changes you've made and use the standard driver settings. If you can't fall back to a clean configuration you may need to do a complete os reinstall. Windows 7 computer with Intel adapter directly connected to the wall plug with the Signalmax cable is your configuration for working this out with the ISP. Nothing else.
As a second demonstration configuration be able to efficiently setup a speed test between the laptop and Windows 7 computer using the TP-Link router as a switch only. Use your Cat5e and Cat6 cables for that.
Once you have this in place you should call the ISP and have them send the tech back out. You should be calm, but firm that the issue is not your computer. Have him test with his laptop. He will verify speed is fine and something is wrong between the port on the wall and the keyboard of your Windows computer. Next, have him replace the Signalmax cable with a new one, or use the one he was using for testing. This will likely resolve your issues. (Based on a read of your pastebin, one pair is struggling to send and is resending etc)
If it does not resolve your issues, demonstrate the working configuration with the TP-Link router. This will affirm that the Intel card is just fine.
If changing the Signalmax cable has not resolved the issue and a demonstration of your gear working with the TP-Link router as a switch is successful, you need need to back away and tell the tech you have proven it is not your problem and the ISP needs to resolve it. Be firm in this. Don't sign any paperwork that the work is completed, keep repeating yourself that the issue is not fixed and is their fault, and if he still leaves immediately call the ISP back. Keep making appointments until it is cheaper for them to fix the issue than to keep sending guys out to watch your demonstration.
This kind of tech position is sadly not well paid and usually staffed by someone with basic training. He has the ability to kick it up to someone else when he needs help, and that's what you're aiming for also. Don't let them shift blame to you. You just have to be polite but insistent.. These techs have known good cables and laptops they carry around to test--and that's probably how this one worked. He came in, plugged in his good set of hardware, showed you it worked, and then when testing your config he used your broken cable.
posted by joelr at 7:32 PM on February 11, 2010
Oh yeah, once you get the Win7 computer working fine, then you can add in the TP-Link and laptop to complete your new network. For now, keep it simple.
posted by joelr at 7:33 PM on February 11, 2010
posted by joelr at 7:33 PM on February 11, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
- Stick to direct connection for troubleshooting - keep the setup as simple as possible.
Although the debug info you post looks fairly consistent, it also seems to contradict itself - what you describe, and some of the test results suggest packet loss/corruption at the ethernet level - possibly undetected (Ie: not due to collision).
The cable you provided a photo of is a crossover cable. We haven't really needed those in years, as most switches can just figure it out. If internet works at all with a regular Cat5 cable, then the cable doesn't matter (if it required the crossover cable, it wouldn't get a link at all)
I can say - pick your next-hop, and get out ping - (linux works best for this, windows works too)
Open up a cmd/shell window for ping and tcpdump or wireshark in another.
Now, take your next hop (to a traceroute to find out) and start sending pings to see the response rate. They'll probably look fine initially, ping uses small packets to begin with.
Then, start sending pings with differing sizes... keep making them larger, until you get to 1490 or so - see where things start to break down. It could be size related.
Keep an eye on the tcpdump/wireshark window to see what's going on - there might be something else happening.
Then try the phone, and see how that affects things.
posted by TravellingDen at 7:00 AM on February 11, 2010